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This was possibly the greatest MMO ever. I'm giving it an award.
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Thank you for writing this. It was very entertaining and pretty much right on the money. Since I'm also sick and delirious I'm going to vote for you in the most awesome-ist poster of the day contest.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Greed, love the enthusiasm of your post and it is well backed, which is all the better. I agree that the execution of some of those ideas weren't perfect, but they really made this game stand out, in my opinion. I will say, however, I got a decent amount of enjoyment in space. Now that is the kind of expansion MMO's should be making now. Completely gave the game a new lung to breathe out of, in my opinion (okay, it wasn't the biggest lung).
While it was no X-Wing versus Tie Fighter action-wise, it had so much depth that I really loved it. Dropping down planet-side to scour the player shops for great deals and upgrades, heading back up to shoot stuff and be lazy, alone, and pathetic on my ship. The TKM meditate on the top-floor of the Luxury Yacht was great, too.
The only problem is that it was pretty barren out there. Perhaps some forced PvP space zones would have been great and really livened things up.
Good post, Baron. It was buggy as hell and incomplete, but there was so much more life in this game than any other I have experienced. I'm talking community, friendly people, not-so friendly people, cantina duels, twi-lek lapdances. Okay, the last one was a tad ridiculous, but my point is that this game didn't really shine from technical achievement, it was from something else entirely.
I'll list a couple finer points I haven't really mentioned that made this game worth being a part of.
-It was a pretty gorgeous game in it's day.
-You had the ability to be whatever class you could conjure up within your skill point allowance.
-In it's prime, you would never notice this game wasn't as commercially successful as WoW. Players were, for the most part happy. Even 300k subs at max wasn't unimpressive at the time, as far as I thought.
-There was a disgusting amount of things to do and see outside of the usual MMO mechanics such as questing/grinding/crafting.
-Being in a line for buffs was actually fun (and this was post-CU...GASP!).
What I loved was that this game really new how to get players together. Cantinas, Med Centers, 1st Jedi in Coronet staring, Spaceport waiting for shuttle, etc. This is the kind of thing that MMO's nowadays just don't grasp.
I used to crawl from Eisley to Entha in my boxers in support of the blind for no other reason other than I could. Sure, I've had moments in other MMO's (streaking through Tarren Mill avoiding 60's pre-BC in WoW, A big PvP battle in DAOC), but SWG just left me with so many more than any other game. I think, in the end, that's what it's all about.
edit: I also would like to mention that my toon likely still has broken Cries of Alderaan quest items in his inventory. It was many these things that really nickeled and dimed people like me into resenting how things never got fixed. Broken bounty hunter missions were the woooooooorrrsst. Especially before vehicles.
Agree with the OP.
I think SWG is here to stay for the time. Lucas Arts has no problem with milking as much money as they can from their fan base, so why not gather from both pots (SWG and TOR)? People have been crying the death of SWG for almost 5 years now. Every new game release is prompted by some to be the "SWG-killer", yet there it is still pumping along with TCG updates, game updates and other features.
Will it get a new expansion and tons of new players? No, I don't think so.
Will it keep its current dedicated player base with small fluctations up and down? I think it will for the next few years.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I'm going to crawl out of the woodwork long enough to agree with the OP here.
Unfortunately, SWG was a lot like that episode of Seinfeld:
"What if you had a pizza SO good, that you could never eat any other pizza again?"
Almost every other MMORPG tastes like cardboard now, leaving me with a craving that I can never satisfy.
That about sums it up!
Agreed.
Playing - Champions Online
Unsure Of - Darkfall, Star Trek Online
Waiting For - Star Wars: The Old Republic, All Points Bulletin
Played - Age Of Conan, Everquest II, Mabinogi, Tabula Rasa, Star Wars Galaxies, World Of Warcraft
I'm one of those that thinks pre-CU SWG was abou tthe best MMO experience I've had to this date, I didn't mind the CU either as pvp actually got fun after a few months of fixes. City of Heroes is the only other MMO game I can think of that remained sane after all these years, even WoW has changed and gotten so dumbed down that it isn't even funny. I'm waiting for SWTOR myself, playing CoH & Aion at the time being.
Every so often, I pull out my SWG Collectors Edition and mourn a little. Sony had a real good thing going here. All they had to do was fix the game, root out the bugs. Instead, we got the stupid holocron derby, which was the beginning of the end. The NGE then nailed the coffin shut.
My character's class was completely eliminated and the infuriating thing was the discussion on the forums where our Community Lead was instructed to get ideas for what we Creature Handlers wanted to see in the game. Some good ideas were being suggested and we finally felt that Sony was listening. If memory serves, the NGE bombshell dropped within the week. This is where the betrayal is felt, knowing that all the while they were asking us for suggestions, they had a secret team working on a complete reset. I have to wonder where SWG would be today if Sony had put their efforts into fixin what was broken instead of sabotaging what was already built.
That said, my experiences up to that point were my best gaming days to date. Nothing else even comes close. I just wish I'd had the foresight to take more screenshots.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Luckily for me, I was an ss-taking madman for my duration of SWG. They are safely stowed away on a couple cd's.
Just two days ago, I also opened up my collector's edition and gazed upon what was, what wasn't, and what could have been. And that ugly pewter zabrak chick with the blaster. I considered wearing the sweet pin. That would be +5 Morale and -10 Awesome.
As for the classes, it was a shame to see a beautiful concept just taken away and dumbed down. It's laughable to think that SOE at one point had a meeting and came up with the conclusion that "less is more." Nope. I like more. It matches it's own definition.
I gave Fallen Earth a go for a month or so, and it bared some striking similarities to SWG, even down to the clunkiness in movement and combat. But, at the same time, it's like they mashed in some NGE flavor. It could be a promising game...it even has Tiggs from SWG moderating.
But the reality is that the IP, in my opinion, is more of the same post-apoc stuff we have been bombarded with for a while now. Sure, Borderlands is decent with friends. As is Fallout 3 (though it is no FO1 or 2, and like a big-budget mod/reskin of Oblivion), but compared to the galaxy far, far away, it's laughably dry and boring. Sci-Fi is such a broad thing to use in a MMO. Space, different planets, different species- it's perfect for adding to. Never taking away. Star Wars Sci-Fi? All the better!
Fallen Earth really struck me as a SWG pseudo-clone, that really hasn't improved upon the original game at all. While it is definitely capable of delivering the goods, to me, it really feels like a step back or at most, to the side from 2003/2004 (was that when SWG was out?). I don't mean to come off as bashing it, but truly, it is no SWG in it's prime at current state. Maybe it will never be, though I find it hard to not improve something when you have clearly seen a similar game crash and burn. Can't ask for a better research tool than a guinea pig everyone has watched slowly die.
Anyhow, in my current bitterness and despair, where I e-travel the world in search of my e-holy grail, I have resubbed to AoC so I can be disappointed yet again. The blood is reminiscent of Dragon Age, so maybe it will hold me until ME2 or the DA:O expansion comes out. Perhaps next week it will be Lotro.
It's sacrilege for a Star Wars-exclusive fan to dabble in Star Trek, so that is out of the question. Men like me don't trek, we war.
Precu SWG is my favorite mmo for all the reasons you mentioned, and many of those same things are still in the present game. But one of the things that made it so interesting to me were all the professions and the skill based system. Aside from that, the clunkiness of the combat and user interface are a great detractor.
In the right hands I think this game could be my favorite game again, assuming the community came back to atleast some semblance of what it once was. I guess that is never going to happen though, so life goes on. New games, new experiences, maybe I will find a game I enjoy as much as I enjoyed Precu SWG.
I'll give it an award: The Golden Tombstone.
Best game to ever be buried by the misguided/stupid attempt by management to swap an existing paying playerbase for a theoretical one who are fans of another game.
Here's to the Golden Tombstone award!
/raises glass
I have to wonder how many people would have quit WoW completely and continued with SWG if Sony hadn't been so wrong-headed.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I've thought about that on many occasions. Certainly WAY more than those playing now.
I've thought about that on many occasions. Certainly WAY more than those playing now.
The potential has always been there for swg to take a major portion of the market, but 2005 didn't kill that. June 2003 did.
Pushing the game live long before it was ready for a public release permanently crippled the games ability to achieve and retain. Everything after that date has just been a series of bad choices that has caused further damage.
A lot has changed since then. I'd at least roll a trial and log into Test Center to set your character to instant level 90 with all the uber gear using the Character Builder terminals.
Costs you nothing.
I agree with the OP. This game was and still is the best MMO i have ever played. I'm a mad starwars fan and i still cant bring myself to play the NGE, I tried i realy did.
Too be honest i would rather play SWG pre CU or CU over the TOR, or any other game out there. Its the only game i still think about and long to play. I had so much fun in SWG and met some great people who i still speak with today.
Damn you SOE and i blame LA the most!
Still gets my hearts strings now even thinking about the game we have lost. I know its sad but i know there are thousands out there just like me. Its a shame SOE and LA dont realise this and give us back the game we loved.
I too loved the original SWG. I started playing a little late. When JTL came out.
I'm a massive Xwing/Tie fighter fan so all I wanted to do was pilot a Tie Interceptor. That was my single goal when I started playing SWG.
The ground game was so immersive, I never actually got around to doing it. I played for about a year without doing what I initially set out to do, because I was having so much fun doing the other things.
The only time I actually achieved my initial goal was when the NGE came out and I played the rest of my annual subscription in space, because that was left relatively untouched. I still didn't like how Older ships (from the prequel movies) were way better than the newer (original trilogy) ones.
I really tried hard to like the NGE but couldn't. Its the most rediculous system I've ever had the misfortune to encouter.
I've thought about that on many occasions. Certainly WAY more than those playing now.
The potential has always been there for swg to take a major portion of the market, but 2005 didn't kill that. June 2003 did.
Pushing the game live long before it was ready for a public release permanently crippled the games ability to achieve and retain. Everything after that date has just been a series of bad choices that has caused further damage.
I agree that if they pushed out a polished game they would have retained that first wave of people, it did retain a good population even though alot of the game was unfinished, no vehicles no ships and from what I heard Jedi wasnt even coded in till a month or two after launch.
I was just argueing about Sandboxes and that they can make money. Look at SWG, 2003 it had 300k subs, and about 300k till the CU. They made about 207 million on subs up till the NGE, not including the box sales, which SOE braggs at over one million boxes sold. Figuring about 30 million on box sales, a Uncle Owen Sandbox made SOE and LA; $ 237,000,000 in just 4 years.
Now look at after the NGE and the end of the SandBox, cause anyone that doesnt know it, SWG isnt a Sandbox game anymore. With PVE loot being better than crafted it has essentially destroyed the economy, not to mention no decay. Since 2007 SWG has been making about 18 million per year on subs. Making the grand total earnings for the Iconic NGE; 54 milllion.
If they continued with the Pre-Cu and retained the 300k subs, the game would have made them 378 million dollars by today. Now this has got to be the most costly mistake made by any gaming company. You think Lucas arts is smiling at pissing away 141,000,000 dollars?
I've thought about that on many occasions. Certainly WAY more than those playing now.
The potential has always been there for swg to take a major portion of the market, but 2005 didn't kill that. June 2003 did.
Pushing the game live long before it was ready for a public release permanently crippled the games ability to achieve and retain. Everything after that date has just been a series of bad choices that has caused further damage.
I agree that if they pushed out a polished game they would have retained that first wave of people, it did retain a good population even though alot of the game was unfinished, no vehicles no ships and from what I heard Jedi wasnt even coded in till a month or two after launch.
I was just argueing about Sandboxes and that they can make money. Look at SWG, 2003 it had 300k subs, and about 300k till the CU. They made about 207 million on subs up till the NGE, not including the box sales, which SOE braggs at over one million boxes sold. Figuring about 30 million on box sales, a Uncle Owen Sandbox made SOE and LA; $ 237,000,000 in just 4 years.
Now look at after the NGE and the end of the SandBox, cause anyone that doesnt know it, SWG isnt a Sandbox game anymore. With PVE loot being better than crafted it has essentially destroyed the economy, not to mention no decay. Since 2007 SWG has been making about 18 million per year on subs. Making the grand total earnings for the Iconic NGE; 54 milllion.
If they continued with the Pre-Cu and retained the 300k subs, the game would have made them 378 million dollars by today. Now this has got to be the most costly mistake made by any gaming company. You think Lucas arts is smiling at pissing away 141,000,000 dollars?
Which is exactly why we'll never get classic servers.
If SOE launches classic servers and they are successful, it's evidence that SOE just lost LA a TON of cash.
Can you say lawsuit?
I've thought about that on many occasions. Certainly WAY more than those playing now.
The potential has always been there for swg to take a major portion of the market, but 2005 didn't kill that. June 2003 did.
Pushing the game live long before it was ready for a public release permanently crippled the games ability to achieve and retain. Everything after that date has just been a series of bad choices that has caused further damage.
I agree that if they pushed out a polished game they would have retained that first wave of people, it did retain a good population even though alot of the game was unfinished, no vehicles no ships and from what I heard Jedi wasnt even coded in till a month or two after launch.
I was just argueing about Sandboxes and that they can make money. Look at SWG, 2003 it had 300k subs, and about 300k till the CU. They made about 207 million on subs up till the NGE, not including the box sales, which SOE braggs at over one million boxes sold. Figuring about 30 million on box sales, a Uncle Owen Sandbox made SOE and LA; $ 237,000,000 in just 4 years.
Now look at after the NGE and the end of the SandBox, cause anyone that doesnt know it, SWG isnt a Sandbox game anymore. With PVE loot being better than crafted it has essentially destroyed the economy, not to mention no decay. Since 2007 SWG has been making about 18 million per year on subs. Making the grand total earnings for the Iconic NGE; 54 milllion.
If they continued with the Pre-Cu and retained the 300k subs, the game would have made them 378 million dollars by today. Now this has got to be the most costly mistake made by any gaming company. You think Lucas arts is smiling at pissing away 141,000,000 dollars?
Which is exactly why we'll never get classic servers.
If SOE launches classic servers and they are successful, it's evidence that SOE just lost LA a TON of cash.
Can you say lawsuit?
ROFL, your insane if you think LA had nothing to do with every decision in SWG.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
You think Lucas arts is smiling at pissing away 141,000,000 dollars?
Which is exactly why we'll never get classic servers.
If SOE launches classic servers and they are successful, it's evidence that SOE just lost LA a TON of cash.
Can you say lawsuit?
ROFL, your insane if you think LA had nothing to do with every decision in SWG.
I'm not saying LA didn't have anything to do with the NGE. In fact, I've been saying for years it was them who pushed SOE into doing it. Furthermore, I'd put out there that they knew the NGE would destroy SWG, thus nullifying whatever contract they had with SOE. Unfortunately for LA, SWG was made part of the station pass, so whatever contractual out plan LA has as far as a minimum sub number, it all becomes very foggy (and costly) from a legal standpoint.
This is just conjecture of course.
Oh, and ROFL.
the game was horrible the moment it launched they only found a way to make it even worse rofl.