Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Isn’t a game that almost solely works by stick holding just pathetic?

SengiSengi Member CommonPosts: 350

One simple question: Would you go though all of wow’s (or any other mainstream mmo’s) levelling content if it wasn’t necessary to level up a character?

Well, for me and, as I believe for 99,9% of the players, the answer is NO. Players only do the content because of the stick holding, for experience points and gear. Without that the game just would not work.

Surprisingly, in other genres, like jump and run or fps or sports games or whatever you play the game because you actually like the content and you want to see more of it. Players do even repeating the same game content every time they play and still have fun.

Levelling may be fun for the first 20 levels or so but it grows old quite fast and then it just becomes a repetitive grind. Well, you get to see new zones and mobs but the types of quests you do keep the same. In the end the whole concept of the levelling just is no fun. It just isn’t a good game.

The game feels grindy not because you are doing the same content repeatedly, no, the developers have put a lot of time and money in giving us lots and lots of content, but in the end its all the same boring stuff.

And the sad thing about it is, that because of the stick holding players seem not to even really ask for better content. They would rather complain about content that hinders them to burn thou it quickly. It is really desperate.

In the end mmos are games that make the players to do stuff they don’t want over and over. It really appears like some sort of mind control thing. Sometimes I think, what am I really doing here, and why do we get the game companies get away with that…

 

Comments

  • UknownAspectUknownAspect Member Posts: 277

    I guess I'm in your .1% as well as quite a number of the people I used to play with, because I am someone who actually liked the quests.  Maybe not all of them, but storyline quests that actually have more excitement in them than the rewards.  Quests where I get to do something different or just follow the story of one of the NPCs. 

    This just so happens to be the formula at the moment, but some people actually like storyline and questing mechanics.  Is it pathetic? not at all.  Is it overplayed? yes.  Can it be better? yes.

    We are all just waiting for a new way for it to be done.  in the meantime go play EVE or Darkfall.

    MMOs played: Horizons, Auto Assault, Ryzom, EVE, WAR, WoW, EQ2, LotRO, GW, DAoC, Aion, Requiem, Atlantica, DDO, Allods, Earth Eternal, Fallen Earth, Rift
    Willing to try anything new

  • LansidLansid Member Posts: 1,097
    Originally posted by Sengi


    One simple question: Would you go though all of wow’s (or any other mainstream mmo’s) levelling content if it wasn’t necessary to level up a character?
    Well, for me and, as I believe for 99,9% of the players, the answer is NO. Players only do the content because of the stick holding, for experience points and gear. Without that the game just would not work.
    Surprisingly, in other genres, like jump and run or fps or sports games or whatever you play the game because you actually like the content and you want to see more of it. Players do even repeating the same game content every time they play and still have fun.
    Levelling may be fun for the first 20 levels or so but it grows old quite fast and then it just becomes a repetitive grind. Well, you get to see new zones and mobs but the types of quests you do keep the same. In the end the whole concept of the levelling just is no fun. It just isn’t a good game.
    The game feels grindy not because you are doing the same content repeatedly, no, the developers have put a lot of time and money in giving us lots and lots of content, but in the end its all the same boring stuff.
    And the sad thing about it is, that because of the stick holding players seem not to even really ask for better content. They would rather complain about content that hinders them to burn thou it quickly. It is really desperate.
    In the end mmos are games that make the players to do stuff they don’t want over and over. It really appears like some sort of mind control thing. Sometimes I think, what am I really doing here, and why do we get the game companies get away with that…

     

    What's going to really blow your mind is questioning why even bother posting this? What's the point? What's the goal, fun, endgame? Is there any excitement? Sense of accomplishment?

    Why rant about how a video game works, or let it bother your life when you could be focusing on learning a new language, or advancing your personal skills towards making the real world your physical body lives in a better one? Why do people do, what they do, especially for fun?

    Because they want to.

    Enjoy your New Years, mate.

    "There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."

  • TealaTeala Member RarePosts: 7,627

    See I am in the belief that an MMORPG can be made that is not a grind at all.   There would be no leveling and gear is dependent on the play style of the player and not their level.

    For instance.   I believe that stats would define the character and how it can be played.   A character of low strength would be poorly suited for wearing plate maille and would have a hard time wielding a two handed weapon.  

    Example:

    str - 10

    dex - 17

    con - 14

    int - 9

    wis - 14

    A player with these stats might make a good thief or archer.  Wear leather armor at most.   Could wield a two handed sword but do so very poorly, but would handle a short sword very well.

    As for incentive to keep playing.   How about for adventure?  How about for control of land in the game?  How about to play as an integral part of a community - say you play a druid that lives in the forest and has a small potions shop near a village.   What if you played a Wizard that became very rich one day after going on an expedition to find the lost treasure of a King and you found it with your companions.  This allowed you to have a tower built where you can create an work on becoming even a more powerful Wizard and maybe the tower is not only your home, but a shop for selling your spells and a school to teach others your magic.

    Maybe you are a merc and travel the lands selling your sword to the highest bidder.  Maybe you are a holy person and travel the lands in search of people to convert and heal(going on adventures offering your services to heal party members when they are hurt).   OMG if the game is made to allow open style of gaming and not confined to linear game play and level required game play then the whole world one finds in the game becomes a place to explore, adventure and what not in and the player is not pigeon holed into playing the game a certain way.

    If the content to allow players to create their own style of game play is in place, then players that like grinding MOB's would be there, as well as those that like questing, or those that prefer open adventuring, crafting, exploring...all of it.   I believe a game like this can be made and I also believe that such a game would have plenty of players wanting to play such a game.

  • LansidLansid Member Posts: 1,097
    Originally posted by Teala


    See I am in the belief that an MMORPG can be made that is not a grind at all.   There would be no leveling and gear is dependent on the play style of the player and not their level.
    For instance.   I believe that stats would define the character and how it can be played.   A character of low strength would be poorly suited for wearing plate maille and would have a hard time wielding a two handed weapon.  
    Example:
    str - 10

    dex - 17

    con - 14

    int - 9

    wis - 14
    A player with these stats might make a good thief or archer.  Wear leather armor at most.   Could wield a two handed sword but do so very poorly, but would handle a short sword very well.
    As for incentive to keep playing.   How about for adventure?  How about for control of land in the game?  How about to play as an integral part of a community - say you play a druid that lives in the forest and has a small potions shop near a village.   What if you played a Wizard that became very rich one day after going on an expedition to find the lost treasure of a King and you found it with your companions.  This allowed you to have a tower built where you can create an work on becoming even a more powerful Wizard and maybe the tower is not only your home, but a shop for selling your spells and a school to teach others your magic.
    Maybe you are a merc and travel the lands selling your sword to the highest bidder.  Maybe you are a holy person and travel the lands in search of people to convert and heal(going on adventures offering your services to heal party members when they are hurt).   OMG if the game is made to allow open style of gaming and not confined to linear game play and level required game play then the whole world one finds in the game becomes a place to explore, adventure and what not in and the player is not pigeon holed into playing the game a certain way.
    If the content to allow players to create their own style of game play is in place, then players that like grinding MOB's would be there, as well as those that like questing, or those that prefer open adventuring, crafting, exploring...all of it.   I believe a game like this can be made and I also believe that such a game would have plenty of players wanting to play such a game.

    I can't recall specifics, but Elminster's and Rastlin's stats were pretty sub-ordinary. If you could have campaigns that would accommodate players so they could still have "fun" then the scene would explode, and no longer be stat-gear reliant.

    "There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,198
    Originally posted by Teala


    See I am in the belief that an MMORPG can be made that is not a grind at all.   There would be no leveling and gear is dependent on the play style of the player and not their level.
    For instance.   I believe that stats would define the character and how it can be played.   A character of low strength would be poorly suited for wearing plate maille and would have a hard time wielding a two handed weapon.  
    Example:
    str - 10

    dex - 17

    con - 14

    int - 9

    wis - 14
    A player with these stats might make a good thief or archer.  Wear leather armor at most.   Could wield a two handed sword but do so very poorly, but would handle a short sword very well.
    As for incentive to keep playing.   How about for adventure?  How about for control of land in the game?  How about to play as an integral part of a community - say you play a druid that lives in the forest and has a small potions shop near a village.   What if you played a Wizard that became very rich one day after going on an expedition to find the lost treasure of a King and you found it with your companions.  This allowed you to have a tower built where you can create an work on becoming even a more powerful Wizard and maybe the tower is not only your home, but a shop for selling your spells and a school to teach others your magic.
    Maybe you are a merc and travel the lands selling your sword to the highest bidder.  Maybe you are a holy person and travel the lands in search of people to convert and heal(going on adventures offering your services to heal party members when they are hurt).   OMG if the game is made to allow open style of gaming and not confined to linear game play and level required game play then the whole world one finds in the game becomes a place to explore, adventure and what not in and the player is not pigeon holed into playing the game a certain way.
    If the content to allow players to create their own style of game play is in place, then players that like grinding MOB's would be there, as well as those that like questing, or those that prefer open adventuring, crafting, exploring...all of it.   I believe a game like this can be made and I also believe that such a game would have plenty of players wanting to play such a game.

     

    Sounds a lot like you just described UO.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    Players don't play to level cap on the promise of others.  Especially if that level cap is 14+ days played away (for the new player.)  So do players genuinely enjoy questing?  Absolutely!  Otherwise only the smallest minority would bother reaching max level.

    The only point at which a large chunk of players genuinely dislike questing is after they've done it once (because questing is reasonably fun, but not an activity with a good capacity for repetition.)  So if you asked me whether I think quest-leveling should be skippable after you've done it once, my answer is yes (though with the caveat that I think a time investment should still be necessary, the duration of which would vary depending on the type of game you were creating.)   Or if you asked me whether I think group-leveling should be viable, my answer would similarly be yes (because more content variety makes the leveling process less repetitive.)

    Like any goal, if you ask people whether they want to accomplish it their immediate response will be yes.  However the underlying purpose of the goal ("get to max level" in this case) is to get players to experience the journey getting there.  So if you can directly skip from 1 to 80, you miss out on a lot of the game.

    Dragon Age, Diablo 2, and more are all fun games which are essentially quest-driven.  Quests are merely formalized goals for players, and a game without goals is less of a game (because a formalized rule system is part of what makes a game a game.)  It's possible to make money selling worlds (which are weak as games) but these tend to be less popular due to the weaker gameplay patterns that exist in them.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • godseek3rgodseek3r Member Posts: 76

    You do realize that that stick holding is a GOAL.

    Playing - Champions Online
    Unsure Of - Darkfall, Star Trek Online
    Waiting For - Star Wars: The Old Republic, All Points Bulletin
    Played - Age Of Conan, Everquest II, Mabinogi, Tabula Rasa, Star Wars Galaxies, World Of Warcraft

  • EverSkellyEverSkelly Member UncommonPosts: 341

    don't lie to others and to yourself. No one plays MMOs to actually do quests. Maybe 1 person in 1000.

    The reason to play is usually shiny armor, cool looking weapons, interesting spells and combat arts, new powerful abilities, just SENSE OF POWER. Also adventuring, discovering new exciting lands, meeting other players, making friends, defeating the monsters with these friends.

    Quests are boring and the more of it you complete, the more boring they are. It's just a way to get exp, money, armor, weapons...  so to say, you do quests to advance your character.

    To OP. If there were no levels, there must be some other ways to constantly get upgrades and improve your character. Like new spells or abilities. Because otherwise people would not feel they're becoming more powerful. And that's why we play, right? The whole purpose of these games is improving your character in different ways.

     

  • Plasuma!!!Plasuma!!! Member Posts: 1,872
    Originally posted by godseek3r


    You do realize that that stick holding is a GOAL.

    The "stick-holding" is a goal, yes, but not one the players formulate themselves. It is a goal provided by the game, and after a while, the hand-holding gets a bit confining and irritating.

    Think of the starting goals as a parent teaching a child how to behave in a society - they set the standard of what he can and cannot do in the rest of the game.



    Now, in this latest generation of MMOGs, those provided goals exist throughout the entire game. In other words, the child's parents are always there, telling him what he should and should not do even after he's matured enough to try things on his own.

    Most of these mainstream MMORPG's have no societal progression, similar to a home with over-protective parents and complacent children (they must be complacent to stay, otherwise they're kicked out in their rebellion, or they simply choose to move out).

  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr Member CommonPosts: 2,142
    Originally posted by EverSkelly


    don't lie to others and to yourself. No one plays MMOs to actually do quests. Maybe 1 person in 1000.
    The reason to play is usually shiny armor, cool looking weapons, interesting spells and combat arts, new powerful abilities, just SENSE OF POWER. Also adventuring, discovering new exciting lands, meeting other players, making friends, defeating the monsters with these friends.
    Quests are boring and the more of it you complete, the more boring they are. It's just a way to get exp, money, armor, weapons...  so to say, you do quests to advance your character.
    To OP. If there were no levels, there must be some other ways to constantly get upgrades and improve your character. Like new spells or abilities. Because otherwise people would not feel they're becoming more powerful. And that's why we play, right? The whole purpose of these games is improving your character in different ways.

    Not if they're done right.

    There are a lot of boring quests in MMOs, that's a given .. but that's a failing of the developer, not the mechanic. Not all quests have to be "kill 10 boars for <forgettable NPC #593>".

    There are two main ways that a developer can make a quest good.

    The first is to write it well; integrating the typical kill/collect/deliver mechanics into an evolving story that the player is interested in progressing just to see what happens next. Of course, this only applies to the MMO players who care about literature enough to actually read the quest text.

    The second is to avoid the typical kill/collect/deliver mechanics in favour of something more interesting and fun. WoW has some great examples of this; I've completed quests that require me to drive a steam tank and waste half an undead army; or spear a dragon from the ground, hop aboard it when it attacks me, then try to kill it mid-air before it shakes me off and eats me.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • PatchDayPatchDay Member Posts: 1,641
    Originally posted by Sengi


    One simple question: Would you go though all of wow’s (or any other mainstream mmo’s) levelling content if it wasn’t necessary to level up a character?
    Well, for me and, as I believe for 99,9% of the players, the answer is NO. Players only do the content because of the stick holding, for experience points and gear. Without that the game just would not work.
    Surprisingly, in other genres, like jump and run or fps or sports games or whatever you play the game because you actually like the content and you want to see more of it. Players do even repeating the same game content every time they play and still have fun.
    Levelling may be fun for the first 20 levels or so but it grows old quite fast and then it just becomes a repetitive grind. Well, you get to see new zones and mobs but the types of quests you do keep the same. In the end the whole concept of the levelling just is no fun. It just isn’t a good game.
    The game feels grindy not because you are doing the same content repeatedly, no, the developers have put a lot of time and money in giving us lots and lots of content, but in the end its all the same boring stuff.
    And the sad thing about it is, that because of the stick holding players seem not to even really ask for better content. They would rather complain about content that hinders them to burn thou it quickly. It is really desperate.
    In the end mmos are games that make the players to do stuff they don’t want over and over. It really appears like some sort of mind control thing. Sometimes I think, what am I really doing here, and why do we get the game companies get away with that…

     

     

    In guild wars I leveled up several characters for fun.

    However!

    I wouldn't do that in any other MMO. Not even EVE Online (in the case of EVE I would have preferred to skip time based training)

     

    Ask me, only guild wars paced their content properly. They made leveling optional + the main storyline was FUN

     

    MMORPG quests usually tend to suck as a whole with a rare few that seem good. I must admit, I thought WoW had a few good ones. In particular, I liked my Class based quests. I also liked some of the others. But I wish devs would drastically reduce the number of quests and focus on quality instead of quantity.

     

    And of course, try to somehow find a way to allow pvpers to fight at max level if it fits into the world somehow.

     

Sign In or Register to comment.