No... while a vampire mmo would be a cool idea, but a twilight one... heeell no.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
Who cares... they'll probably make some money on it, one way or another. The tween crowd will buy just about anything that no one else wants. It's such a niche market I don't think it'll really effect the genre in one way or another. If it fails, that'll just show people how crappy such an idea is.
Saw the first two movies just so I can honestly say this might be the most overhyped piece of media in the world(yes including halo). These are truely terrible movies, ridiculously inconsistent plots(vampires that shine in the light...wtf???), very stale and unimaginative acting, and the typical love story we've all seen a billion times, which proves to me that teenagers are really as clueless and easy manipulated has people say they(i guess we since im part of that demographic) are. I applaud the author for realizing she could make a ton of money with a half empty plotline, a pretty boy lead, and a boy who looks like he's right out of a bowflex commercial, however I might lose all faith in my generation to ever amount to anything if a Twilight MMO comes out and is successful, how could you even make a game based on four books which regurgitate the same thing the whole damn time, seriously books 3 and 4 are the biggest emo-i-can't-wait-to-go-home-and-cut-my-wrist fest I ever read, I couldn't even finish half of either of them. Why I watched and read Twilight? I wanted to be able to tell my gf I gave a honest effort to like this series and just couldn't find ANY appeal to it(they at least could of got a hot lead girl so the guys that got stuck sitting through that torture had some eye candy...)
------------------------------ World of Warcraft-Retired (Blair 60 Warlock-Daggerspine) RF Online-Downloading Guild Wars-Retired (Amazonsfinest 20 Warrior/Monk)
We didnt need twilight as an mmorpg. What we needed:
Was underworld as an mmorpg. It would make a lot more sense. Vempire that would hide from the sun would be much more cool to RP. Playing with a lycan (wearwolf ) would be so awsome. Playing with a human in that story would be cool too. So you have 3 race.
would like to see a MMO based on the "vampire the masquerade" universe but hell not twighlight.......
"The Masquerade" era is dead according to White Wolf. CCP (makers of EvE who purchased White Wolf a few years ago) is making a "The Requiem" era World of Darkness MMO that supposed to be out this coming year (2010).
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I don't see what all the hubbub is about. A Vampire/Werewolf themed MMO would probably be about the same as the old Vampire: The Role Playing Game was. A triple threat game where you can be Humans fighting or serving the Vampires (all the Werewolves would do to Humans is turn or eat them) or Vampires/Werewolves trying to take over their clans. Throw in a little magic and viola! Instant Goth MMO!
Just what the world has been waiting for!
"In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule." Neitzsche
If they made an MMO based off of everything that happened in the last book it would be sick.
Spoiler Alert for those that care:
1. The "Werewolves" we saw aren't actually werewolves, but actually shapeshifters. There actually exists a war against the true Children of the Moon somewhere in Europe.
2. Factions: Italian vampire family, Cullen/Cullen's friends, Romanian Vampires (Dracula?), and a bunch of lone wolf vampires, not to mention the crazy scientist vampire that rapes South American women that eventually give birth to insane Vampire/human hybrids.
3. Speaking of hybrids: Lore/Sci Fi. Daddy Cullen said that the shapeshifters and Bella's daughter have a similar genetic makeup. That could open up many possibilities in terms of story development, faction development, and hybrid races. MMO anyone?
4. Powers: The last book had an elementalist (who also showed signs of powers pre-vampire like bella), mind readers, future seers, power blockers (Bella), Shapeshifters (Jacob and his crew), Super strength, and that was just some of the good guys.
5. Death: Don't gotta worry bout permadeath debates, cuz they don't die unless the body is entirely engulfed in flames.
6. Guilds/Clans: Cullen family. Wolf packs like Jacob's when he becomes an "Alpha"
7. Races: Humans, Vampires, Vampire-Humans, Shapeshifting Humans, Actual Werewolves <- this one can be explored in a lot of different ways since it isn't really developed much in the books.
8. Moral Issues: human blood vs. animal blood. Can a vampire not be eternally damned?
9. PvP.
Of course, a Facebook MMO could work too, just putting this out there as food for thought. I enjoyed the last book mainly because I pictured how awesome it would be to play a game that had a lot of these elements in it.
Being born into a hawk shapeshifting Native American tribe or being bitten and turned into a werewolf and being introduced to an entirely different world because of it would be intense. Oh and PvP as a war between vampires/werewolves/other vampires. Sick.
Sure go ahead and make a Twilight MMO of course I won't play it just like I won't play Hello Kitty online. To be honest Twilight is horrible effing bastardization of vampire lore in a effort to create a IP designed to sell and appeal to teenage girls.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Sure go ahead and make a Twilight MMO of course I won't play it just like I won't play Hello Kitty online. To be honest Twilight is horrible effing bastardization of vampire lore in a effort to create a IP designed to sell and appeal to teenage girls.
Wow, I'm just glad someone else realizes this.
Twilight is nothing more than a blatantly crafted media tool aimed specifically at females aged 13 to 30. Then ENTIRE story and lore are complete bastardizations of already established narratives. To be even more honest a large part of it feels like a complete rip off of Anne Rice.
Couple that completely ripped-off story with a bunch of pretty-boy actors who shoot a lot of their scenes either entirely or partly shirtless and you have a formula that appeals to every sense that girls swoon over.
If people want vampires then they need to go read anne rice's stuff and stop with all this crap.
A Twilight mmo would be filled with nothing but tween girls and pedophiles trying to sleep with said tween's. 'nuff said.
I wouldn't dismiss a Twilight MMO outright simply because it is Twilight. Actually, nevermind, I probably would. I saw the first movie and when I was done I wanted nothing more than those 180 minutes of my life back. Simply put it was absolutely horrid! Just horrid! Ugh! I don't mind the Vampire theme; I really don't. But I don't really like the "feel" of Twilight and it's not too distant cousin Vampire Diaries. There are plenty of solid vampire themes out there but I would not consider Twilight to be one of them.
But do you want to know what my major take away from this was?
Personally I would really enjoy to see something new that is not Orcs vs Humans, or Warewolves and better yet an end to Anime games, but until one company sits back and says ok this is what people want and we are going to deliver it in a game, World of Warcraft will forever remain that shadow over all the others heads.
What are you talking about. There have been many games that have come out that aren't Orc vs Humans, or Warewolves and aren't anime. People, for the most part, do not what them so they do not do very well!
I know of games that I have Alpha and Beta tested that have nothing to do with Orcs, Humans, Warewolves or Anime, but something that would actually topple the powerhouse WoW has so those games actually get a chance to be games not just something to do when the WoW servers are offline. I would like a fresh change in a game that attracts many players and has a decent size player base instead of just everyone run to play it and then return, do not net get me wrong WoW is a great game but after 5 yrs it is getting stale and most vets can tell what is coming next in patches and expansions personally nothing they have added yet outside the siege vehicles was a surprise to me. I would like to see something along the lines of change from when I played SWG "before the NGE almost killed it totally" to when I went to WoW, it was something different not really like I had played before.
When my sons were younger I remember telling them - "If you could find me a game where I can point my wand and zap a skeleton, I'll play it". Thus Everquest came into our household and my husband, I and the two youngest sons played it from 1999 to the end of 2004, when we switched over to WoW. The two best reasons for playing WoW, no EXP loss on death and BETTER CUSTOMER SERVICE. Now I have a 13 year old granddaughter (from an older son) and I would really like for her to be into gaming. The game that would do it for her is Twilight or an equivalent (Kim Harrison writes a great story line of werewolves, coyote & vampire). Getting women into gaming this day and age is like trying to get girls to take higher level math 40 years ago. It wasn't stressed, we were told 'boys are better at math', etc. So for all those gamers who feel threatened that there might be a chic game for teen girls (this attitude from the same guys who make hot babe toons in W0W, etc) - so what - You don't have to play it. Oh and btw my main is an 80 Rogue and i have lots of fun with her.
Just small note on your remark about better customer service, Electronic Arts has better customer service than SOE, looking at the way the CS is on WoW not much difference in the wait times from Bliz to SOE I have had tickets in for days, and knew someone who waited a week to hear back when their account got hacked then another week after they got it back to get their stuff back, as bad as SOE was for CS alot got done faster than wow.
The fact the family plays games together is awesome it is an actual way to bond with each other, nothing like upsetting my wife and getting my butt ganked in a BG for it
I know what made me say "ick" when I saw a potential "Twilight" MMO...it's the last and hopefully lowest devolved form of a truely debased genre. Nothing since "Tolkien-esque" fantasy has been as beaten to death and then revivified multiple times to be flogged again and again the way Vampire fantasy has in the last 30-40 years. I'm sick of it; sick of the endless rows of pseudo-porn covers on massed ranks of vampire fluff fiction; sick of the flavor of the month author after author; sick of the drama-queen vampire larp victims; sick of teen vamp-angst; sick of the poor decision theatre soap operas.
PS
Getting women into gaming this day and age yada yada....My wife games, heck half+ of our regular gaming group are women and they hate Twilight more than I do....
I am going to be totally straight forward and I hope I do not offend anyone by doing it but simple put you can draw boobs on a toilet tissue roll with a crayon and guys will go look, if you tried to make a Twilight MMO females (who are the possible bigger audience) are not that easily amused and want to see the real Edward not some half cocked animated version.
I'm sick of it; sick of the endless rows of pseudo-porn covers on massed ranks of vampire fluff fiction; sick of the flavor of the month author after author; sick of the drama-queen vampire larp victims; sick of teen vamp-angst; sick of the poor decision theatre soap operas.
Don't waste your time being sick. Play your game, the rest will play theirs.
The idea of this will attract hardcore fans, high school students,young kiddies... mostly girls and older men.
What a sh@#$ idea, I would take any other Vampire related movie for a MMO game but this, lol. There's enough games out in the world, the MMO world to cover everyones type of game style. I would maybe like to see Underworld, Blade, Interview with a Vampire or From Dusk till Dawn. Any of these to me would be great additions to the MMO world.
Twilight, lol what a joke for a game period, it can stay as a Book and Movie but that's were it has to end.
( needs a cookie)
Wildstar (2013) & Elder Scroll Online (2013)
Playing: Diablo 3, WOW, Far Cry 3 & X-Com.
Enjoyed: WOW 5 1/2 yrs, LOTRO 3yrs, GW 1/2yr, DFO 1yr, EVE Online 3yrs, and Huxley (Beta).
Failed to impress: GW2 3months, Tera Online 6 months (best combat system in any MMO I've played) STO 1/4yr, Aion 1/2yr, AoC 1yr, CO, Fallen Earth, DDO, EQ2 1/2yr, WAR 1/2yr, Lineage 2 and FF XI 1/2yr, FF XIV.
Originally posted by ericbelser I'm sick of it; sick of the endless rows of pseudo-porn covers on massed ranks of vampire fluff fiction; sick of the flavor of the month author after author; sick of the drama-queen vampire larp victims; sick of teen vamp-angst; sick of the poor decision theatre soap operas.
Don't waste your time being sick. Play your game, the rest will play theirs.
Look at your sign man. So to save your part, im stealing your lime
Don't waste your time being sick. Play your game, the rest will play theirs.
But im still sick of hearing about twilight and now an MMO! i never been that much sick.
Why the hate? Is this some sort of dumb joke? Have you ever even skimmed that garbage?!?! Its literally the worst shit to have reached best seller status in the past 5 years.
We do not want an MMO of it.
The sooner it disappears from our cultural consciousness the better.
Yeah fuck it lets cash out! I mean hell instead of actually coming up with an original idea we should just make a game catering to the girlfriends of the guys that paid for a movie they didn't want to see. Who else wants to become a backwards Uwe Boll? I do not see why no one understands this simple fact. If the game is good, people will play it. Take the time to make a great game and it wont matter what the title is or what it is based off of. it could be called "This game is NOT fun" and people will still play it is awesome. Not the same old bullshit. Get the idea of cashing out, out of your head!
I await the day when the person steps forward and says suck my balls and goes outside the box to create a masterpiece. Not some simple unimaginative steaming pile of whatever your imagination can conjure up to be anything other than shit.
Comments
Kids= Cash crop...
We are a sick bunch.
No... while a vampire mmo would be a cool idea, but a twilight one... heeell no.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
Who cares... they'll probably make some money on it, one way or another. The tween crowd will buy just about anything that no one else wants. It's such a niche market I don't think it'll really effect the genre in one way or another. If it fails, that'll just show people how crappy such an idea is.
I read the first book and thought it was probably the worst version of vampires that I've seen.
Now if theres no downside to being a vampire, that is immortality, super strength and individual special abilities why wouldn't everyone be one ?
No need for a Twilight MMO as there is no need for a Titanic MMO- the character would never be Leonardo di Caprio no matter how many pixels you used.
Saw the first two movies just so I can honestly say this might be the most overhyped piece of media in the world(yes including halo). These are truely terrible movies, ridiculously inconsistent plots(vampires that shine in the light...wtf???), very stale and unimaginative acting, and the typical love story we've all seen a billion times, which proves to me that teenagers are really as clueless and easy manipulated has people say they(i guess we since im part of that demographic) are. I applaud the author for realizing she could make a ton of money with a half empty plotline, a pretty boy lead, and a boy who looks like he's right out of a bowflex commercial, however I might lose all faith in my generation to ever amount to anything if a Twilight MMO comes out and is successful, how could you even make a game based on four books which regurgitate the same thing the whole damn time, seriously books 3 and 4 are the biggest emo-i-can't-wait-to-go-home-and-cut-my-wrist fest I ever read, I couldn't even finish half of either of them. Why I watched and read Twilight? I wanted to be able to tell my gf I gave a honest effort to like this series and just couldn't find ANY appeal to it(they at least could of got a hot lead girl so the guys that got stuck sitting through that torture had some eye candy...)
------------------------------
World of Warcraft-Retired
(Blair 60 Warlock-Daggerspine)
RF Online-Downloading
Guild Wars-Retired
(Amazonsfinest 20 Warrior/Monk)
We didnt need twilight as an mmorpg. What we needed:
Was underworld as an mmorpg. It would make a lot more sense. Vempire that would hide from the sun would be much more cool to RP. Playing with a lycan (wearwolf ) would be so awsome. Playing with a human in that story would be cool too. So you have 3 race.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
would like to see a MMO based on the "vampire the masquerade" universe but hell not twighlight.......
"The Masquerade" era is dead according to White Wolf. CCP (makers of EvE who purchased White Wolf a few years ago) is making a "The Requiem" era World of Darkness MMO that supposed to be out this coming year (2010).
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I don't see what all the hubbub is about. A Vampire/Werewolf themed MMO would probably be about the same as the old Vampire: The Role Playing Game was. A triple threat game where you can be Humans fighting or serving the Vampires (all the Werewolves would do to Humans is turn or eat them) or Vampires/Werewolves trying to take over their clans. Throw in a little magic and viola! Instant Goth MMO!
Just what the world has been waiting for!
"In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule." Neitzsche
If they made an MMO based off of everything that happened in the last book it would be sick.
Spoiler Alert for those that care:
1. The "Werewolves" we saw aren't actually werewolves, but actually shapeshifters. There actually exists a war against the true Children of the Moon somewhere in Europe.
2. Factions: Italian vampire family, Cullen/Cullen's friends, Romanian Vampires (Dracula?), and a bunch of lone wolf vampires, not to mention the crazy scientist vampire that rapes South American women that eventually give birth to insane Vampire/human hybrids.
3. Speaking of hybrids: Lore/Sci Fi. Daddy Cullen said that the shapeshifters and Bella's daughter have a similar genetic makeup. That could open up many possibilities in terms of story development, faction development, and hybrid races. MMO anyone?
4. Powers: The last book had an elementalist (who also showed signs of powers pre-vampire like bella), mind readers, future seers, power blockers (Bella), Shapeshifters (Jacob and his crew), Super strength, and that was just some of the good guys.
5. Death: Don't gotta worry bout permadeath debates, cuz they don't die unless the body is entirely engulfed in flames.
6. Guilds/Clans: Cullen family. Wolf packs like Jacob's when he becomes an "Alpha"
7. Races: Humans, Vampires, Vampire-Humans, Shapeshifting Humans, Actual Werewolves <- this one can be explored in a lot of different ways since it isn't really developed much in the books.
8. Moral Issues: human blood vs. animal blood. Can a vampire not be eternally damned?
9. PvP.
Of course, a Facebook MMO could work too, just putting this out there as food for thought. I enjoyed the last book mainly because I pictured how awesome it would be to play a game that had a lot of these elements in it.
Being born into a hawk shapeshifting Native American tribe or being bitten and turned into a werewolf and being introduced to an entirely different world because of it would be intense. Oh and PvP as a war between vampires/werewolves/other vampires. Sick.
Which FF Character Are You?
Sure go ahead and make a Twilight MMO of course I won't play it just like I won't play Hello Kitty online. To be honest Twilight is horrible effing bastardization of vampire lore in a effort to create a IP designed to sell and appeal to teenage girls.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Wow, I'm just glad someone else realizes this.
Twilight is nothing more than a blatantly crafted media tool aimed specifically at females aged 13 to 30. Then ENTIRE story and lore are complete bastardizations of already established narratives. To be even more honest a large part of it feels like a complete rip off of Anne Rice.
Couple that completely ripped-off story with a bunch of pretty-boy actors who shoot a lot of their scenes either entirely or partly shirtless and you have a formula that appeals to every sense that girls swoon over.
If people want vampires then they need to go read anne rice's stuff and stop with all this crap.
A Twilight mmo would be filled with nothing but tween girls and pedophiles trying to sleep with said tween's. 'nuff said.
I wouldn't dismiss a Twilight MMO outright simply because it is Twilight. Actually, nevermind, I probably would. I saw the first movie and when I was done I wanted nothing more than those 180 minutes of my life back. Simply put it was absolutely horrid! Just horrid! Ugh! I don't mind the Vampire theme; I really don't. But I don't really like the "feel" of Twilight and it's not too distant cousin Vampire Diaries. There are plenty of solid vampire themes out there but I would not consider Twilight to be one of them.
But do you want to know what my major take away from this was?
"...lose their collective shit." ~ Justin Webb
Shit yeah! We can say shit!
I probably wouldn't play it, but on the other hand...
This is the most profound thing George Lucas has ever said :
"If you can tune into the fantasy life of an 11 year old girl, you can make a fortune in this business."
I don't think he was wrong...
What are you talking about. There have been many games that have come out that aren't Orc vs Humans, or Warewolves and aren't anime. People, for the most part, do not what them so they do not do very well!
I know of games that I have Alpha and Beta tested that have nothing to do with Orcs, Humans, Warewolves or Anime, but something that would actually topple the powerhouse WoW has so those games actually get a chance to be games not just something to do when the WoW servers are offline. I would like a fresh change in a game that attracts many players and has a decent size player base instead of just everyone run to play it and then return, do not net get me wrong WoW is a great game but after 5 yrs it is getting stale and most vets can tell what is coming next in patches and expansions personally nothing they have added yet outside the siege vehicles was a surprise to me. I would like to see something along the lines of change from when I played SWG "before the NGE almost killed it totally" to when I went to WoW, it was something different not really like I had played before.
Just small note on your remark about better customer service, Electronic Arts has better customer service than SOE, looking at the way the CS is on WoW not much difference in the wait times from Bliz to SOE I have had tickets in for days, and knew someone who waited a week to hear back when their account got hacked then another week after they got it back to get their stuff back, as bad as SOE was for CS alot got done faster than wow.
The fact the family plays games together is awesome it is an actual way to bond with each other, nothing like upsetting my wife and getting my butt ganked in a BG for it
I know what made me say "ick" when I saw a potential "Twilight" MMO...it's the last and hopefully lowest devolved form of a truely debased genre. Nothing since "Tolkien-esque" fantasy has been as beaten to death and then revivified multiple times to be flogged again and again the way Vampire fantasy has in the last 30-40 years. I'm sick of it; sick of the endless rows of pseudo-porn covers on massed ranks of vampire fluff fiction; sick of the flavor of the month author after author; sick of the drama-queen vampire larp victims; sick of teen vamp-angst; sick of the poor decision theatre soap operas.
PS
Getting women into gaming this day and age yada yada....My wife games, heck half+ of our regular gaming group are women and they hate Twilight more than I do....
I am going to be totally straight forward and I hope I do not offend anyone by doing it but simple put you can draw boobs on a toilet tissue roll with a crayon and guys will go look, if you tried to make a Twilight MMO females (who are the possible bigger audience) are not that easily amused and want to see the real Edward not some half cocked animated version.
Originally posted by ericbelser
I'm sick of it; sick of the endless rows of pseudo-porn covers on massed ranks of vampire fluff fiction; sick of the flavor of the month author after author; sick of the drama-queen vampire larp victims; sick of teen vamp-angst; sick of the poor decision theatre soap operas.
Don't waste your time being sick. Play your game, the rest will play theirs.
Which FF Character Are You?
The idea of this will attract hardcore fans, high school students,young kiddies... mostly girls and older men.
What a sh@#$ idea, I would take any other Vampire related movie for a MMO game but this, lol. There's enough games out in the world, the MMO world to cover everyones type of game style. I would maybe like to see Underworld, Blade, Interview with a Vampire or From Dusk till Dawn. Any of these to me would be great additions to the MMO world.
Twilight, lol what a joke for a game period, it can stay as a Book and Movie but that's were it has to end.
( needs a cookie)
Wildstar (2013) & Elder Scroll Online (2013)
Playing: Diablo 3, WOW, Far Cry 3 & X-Com.
Enjoyed: WOW 5 1/2 yrs, LOTRO 3yrs, GW 1/2yr, DFO 1yr, EVE Online 3yrs, and Huxley (Beta).
Failed to impress: GW2 3months, Tera Online 6 months (best combat system in any MMO I've played) STO 1/4yr, Aion 1/2yr, AoC 1yr, CO, Fallen Earth, DDO, EQ2 1/2yr, WAR 1/2yr, Lineage 2 and FF XI 1/2yr, FF XIV.
Look at your sign man. So to save your part, im stealing your lime
Don't waste your time being sick. Play your game, the rest will play theirs.
But im still sick of hearing about twilight and now an MMO! i never been that much sick.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Why the hate? Is this some sort of dumb joke? Have you ever even skimmed that garbage?!?! Its literally the worst shit to have reached best seller status in the past 5 years.
We do not want an MMO of it.
The sooner it disappears from our cultural consciousness the better.
Yeah fuck it lets cash out! I mean hell instead of actually coming up with an original idea we should just make a game catering to the girlfriends of the guys that paid for a movie they didn't want to see. Who else wants to become a backwards Uwe Boll? I do not see why no one understands this simple fact. If the game is good, people will play it. Take the time to make a great game and it wont matter what the title is or what it is based off of. it could be called "This game is NOT fun" and people will still play it is awesome. Not the same old bullshit. Get the idea of cashing out, out of your head!
I await the day when the person steps forward and says suck my balls and goes outside the box to create a masterpiece. Not some simple unimaginative steaming pile of whatever your imagination can conjure up to be anything other than shit.