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Most MMORPGs aren't even MMORPGs anymore

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  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662
    Originally posted by Nightbringe1

    Originally posted by StevieHmself


     Devs make Instanced MMO's cus thats what the people want. its called Capitalism. a few companies step up to cater the minoritys (in this case Darkfall sorta games) while the majority cater to the majority. what are you complaining about man?

    Capitalism is voting with you wallet.

    You'll notice most games released in the last 5 years have rapidly lost subscriptions soon after release. In my opionion this is due to the lack of open world, the sense of adventure, and the fact that heavily instanced games fail to develope meaningul communities.

    The thing with giving you customers rapid advancement and lots of instant gratification, and isolating them from each other  is, after a month or two they have finished it all and are ready to move on to the next best thing, or return to the tried and true older games.

    I disagree.  Whilst the lack of an open world "seamless" like in WoW (lets face it, WoW may not be "innovative" but it does have a massive seamless world to the most part) probably is on the list of things wrong with many of the later developed MMO's, it is just one point of many. 

    In the majority of cases, people often complain about the latest MMO launches because of many things, such as a lack of polish, lack of content for all levels (including end game), lack of captivating features, unbalanced classes, and of course that the games are ridden with bugs and performance issues.  As I mentioned earlier, yes, the lack of a seamless world is on that same list, but If that was the only main priority to MMO players then all of the games would have died out long ago. 

  • jadoncjadonc Member Posts: 136

    I agree with the OP. I am surprised they didnt call Modern Warfare 2 an MMO cause it has a ladder system.

     

    Make a fancy lobby with a ladder system and boom they stamp it an MMO.

  • twiggy550twiggy550 Member UncommonPosts: 492
    Originally posted by jadonc


    I agree with the OP. I am surprised they didnt call Modern Warfare 2 an MMO cause it has a ladder system.
     
    Make a fancy lobby with a ladder system and boom they stamp it an MMO.

     

    The "MMO" part of MW2 is their leveling system... not that I agree that it should be considered an MMO, because it shouldn't.

    "IRL is a pretty upstanding MMO with thousands of classes, a lot of PvP and even some pretty unique emotes and titles you can acquire. Explore that world first, then we'll talk about this virtual one."

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Member Posts: 1,214

    Just to avoid retyping in case you miss it. Read my post on this page Ginkeq.  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/263982/page/11

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    yep i agre with you totally OP.GAME MAKER ARE TRUELLY SILLY!

    wow stopped doing world event and instanced everything after vanilla wow every fucking game made exept a very few

    went instancing .guildwars was instanced and is going in between like vanilla wow was

    full instance is bad ,but full world might be bad also .WOW HAD THE PERFECT WAY IN VANILLA

    the problem they never design their server for more then 200 vs 200 in world fight so they begun to have massive problem

    with the missvie fight ,athene tried to oranise an event this week-end in wow un official number say there was 11 000 player waiting to login as instructed athene had repetedly spoke with blizzard about world event issue

    and blizzard lied to athene or ignored him since they had decided to go full instance like guild wars

    so when athene did try to do the biggest fight in history of wow ,they never had the chance

    lock limit on the total number orf player only work if your loging in (athene didnt knew that)

    ghe was banking on the idea the lock limit would kick  in at say a x amount on a given map

    it never did so the whole server crashed

    im sorry to say op to get what we had in vanilla wow or any other game in the past that had world event instead of instanced

    will require design change ,like the use of microsoftdonnybrook

    no amount of wishfull thinking will make it happen by magic

    but then no surprise here

    take everquest !the designer were aiming for 70 k if they were able to reach one day 70000 player everquest would be a success

    they had 50000 at lunch lol they had to work furiously to extend lot of design because player played 18 hours a day(game wasnt design for that lol

    its probably same with wow i wonder how many player wow was aiming at start

    some player dont like world because of the ganking part wich is understandable

    but the fact is often those game had design flaw that made the game bad

    today they would have ways to prevent ganking wich would make world mmo very good

    thats why i believe half/half like vanilla wow was the best

    you had instanced raid if that was your thing

    you had world raid pvp if thats what was your buzz

    good for everybody.blizzard removed that choice because server just cant handle(yes even today )a fight with 1000 vs 1000 player or even more

    that what scare blizzard,blizzard derail a lot of tread to try to show it isnt so but so far they never even spoke about this problem

    of caurse they dont want to speake about it ,they cant fix it its a design flaw they cant fix from what i heard

    they would have to do major re-design to their server system and all

    so instead they went the easy way in ,they copied guild wars way they instanced or phazed everything to make not everybody is on the same map so server dont crash

     

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    drbaltazar, every time you bring this up I basically say "nobody cares", and point to the fact that WOW has tremendous appeal without offering 1000v1000 fights.

    Again, you're using a hammer to unscrew your videocard (the wrong tool/game for the job) and I'm telling you (and Athene), "UR DOING IT WRONG!"  But I suppose you're like Ginkeq: immune to reason and just here to complain or troll.

    Ivaldyr basically has the thread on lockdown.  Carry on.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,186
    Originally posted by Nightbringe1


    Capitalism is voting with you wallet.
    You'll notice most games released in the last 5 years have rapidly lost subscriptions soon after release. In my opionion this is due to the lack of open world, the sense of adventure, and the fact that heavily instanced games fail to develope meaningul communities.

     

    While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, it is a rather unique view of things. Most players, developers and people in the industry have attributed it to broken mechanics, missing features, rushed delivery, and lack of content or content gaps in critical areas.

  • thorosuchthorosuch Member UncommonPosts: 127

    I agree with OP. There are a few though, search them out.

    @ WSIMike...yeah...I think the journey, the exploration is the most fun...what's going on with people?

    Getting old is mandatory...growing up is optional.

  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615
    Originally posted by StevieHmself


     Devs make Instanced MMO's cus thats what the people want. its called Capitalism. a few companies step up to cater the minoritys (in this case Darkfall sorta games) while the majority cater to the majority. what are you complaining about man?

     

    Who wants them?

    WoW is only popular because it was the first big MMO released at the same time that EQ was dying.

    If a good MMORPG was released with lots of WORLD CONTENT as opposed to instances, there would be a demand for that.  The companies are just cheap these days, they want to save money.  They don't want to provide MORE content so they give everyone a copy of cheap content.   WoW is a cheap game and not an MMORPG anymore.  It used to be somewhat of an MMO back when they had more world content, but they've taken the cheap route and instanced their whole game so it's more like GuildWars or D2 than a true MMO.

    And to Axehilt:

    Yeah, you and Ilvadyr like to make useless posts that have nothing to do with the topic.

    Why don't you go to a star wars forum if half your posts are going to be about a star wars character

     

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    Originally posted by Ginkeq


    There are just no more Worlds anymore in MMORPGs.  
    Everything is being instanced, how do companies get away with labeling their game as an MMORPG when there is nothing massive about it anymore?
    Generally, the only zones that are not instanced are the unimportant zones.  A town might not be instanced, or newbie zones that tend to be barren.  
    All of the zones that have loot, etc. are being instanced.  PvP is instanced, and so is PVE.
    So why do people continue to call these imposter of games MMORPGS?  No game with instancing is an MMORPG.  There are just no worlds anymore.  So my question is when is the next real MMORPG coming out?  



     

    your absolutely right!even arenanet didnt dare call guildwars an mmorpg,they had called it a corpg if i recall

    at least if the game maker called them morpg then i would say they are fairly acurate .but when they add the MASSIVE word

    thats when the player wonder ,where is the massive part in this game!

  • r0hitr0hit Member Posts: 64

     How are you supposed to 'raid' or do 'dungeons' without instancing?

    (serious question)

    image

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230

    I side with Axehilt and Ivaldyr.

    Who the hell cares if the current MMORPGs don't fit the definition that someone made up 10 years ago? As long as they're fun I DON'T CARE! If instances are more fun, make them. In the end we're here to have fun. Instances bring many good things with them - you're a fool to think they are only bad.

    This purist crap is very frustrating. Reminds me of deeply religious folk. You make a statement which you present it like it is one of the truths in the universe. You are only stating your opinion - remember that. If you want me to take your opinion as my own, you need to do a hell of a lot more than you've done in the past. Being like a broken record and repeating the same thing over and over will not cut it. If you really want to deliver and spread your message, you should really think through your argument. I'm willing to change my opinion only if you present enough reasoning for me to do it.

    And these extreme examples like MW2 being an MMO are ridiculous. They bring no value to the discussion whatsoever.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

     quirhid,its no biggy,i just wish the industry would change the term they use .if its an morpg ok say it like it is.

    if its a mmorpg like eve cool.but saying its a mmorpg when its in fact a morpg make player buying the wrong game

    and thats false advertising.can i buy a mmorpg when i want one and not a morpg thats all most ask 

    its like buying a real time strategy game when you want to play corpg like guild wars

    player just want the proper name for x,y,z game so that they dont buy the wrong product .too often we end up with the wrong product because of this.

    oh brand it mmorpg even if its a rts by the time they see it we ll have sold houdred of thousand.its just not right

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230
    Originally posted by r0hit


     How are you supposed to 'raid' or do 'dungeons' without instancing?
    (serious question)

     

    It is done by spawncamping the mobs in the non-instanced dungeon. Some might call this farming. People forgive this if there is a chance to do PvP and fight over these spawns. Some think it is foolish and boring. Others find it... well... better than the alternative, I believe.

    If there's no-one farming in the dungeon, you can raid normally but you have to watch your back for the respawning mobs and possible hostile players.

    Forgive my bias.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr Member CommonPosts: 2,142
    Originally posted by drbaltazar


     quirhid,its no biggy,i just wish the industry would change the term they use .if its an morpg ok say it like it is.
    if its a mmorpg like eve cool.but saying its a mmorpg when its in fact a morpg make player buying the wrong game
    and thats false advertising.can i buy a mmorpg when i want one and not a morpg thats all most ask 
    its like buying a real time strategy game when you want to play corpg like guild wars
    player just want the proper name for x,y,z game so that they dont buy the wrong product .too often we end up with the wrong product because of this.
    oh brand it mmorpg even if its a rts by the time they see it we ll have sold houdred of thousand.its just not right

    A few unhappy forumites don't get to define what MMORPG means.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230
    Originally posted by drbaltazar


     quirhid,its no biggy,i just wish the industry would change the term they use .if its an morpg ok say it like it is.
    if its a mmorpg like eve cool.but saying its a mmorpg when its in fact a morpg make player buying the wrong game
    and thats false advertising.can i buy a mmorpg when i want one and not a morpg thats all most ask 
    its like buying a real time strategy game when you want to play corpg like guild wars
    player just want the proper name for x,y,z game so that they dont buy the wrong product .too often we end up with the wrong product because of this.
    oh brand it mmorpg even if its a rts by the time they see it we ll have sold houdred of thousand.its just not right

     

    Then you only have to accept that the definion is very broad these days. You could partly blame the marketing - MMO(RPG) is such a hot thing these days.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • inBOILinBOIL Member Posts: 669

    think about WoW example

    World of warcraft adventuring shoot em up  item collecting game  ASEUICG

    that kind of name wont sell much

    MMORPG = $$$

     

     

     

     

    Generation P

  • Andr4599Andr4599 Member Posts: 99

    OP, who are you to decide what a mmo is ??

    OP's only purpose on this site is to flame wow.

  • EvasiaEvasia Member Posts: 2,827
    Originally posted by Ginkeq


    There are just no more Worlds anymore in MMORPGs.  
    Everything is being instanced, how do companies get away with labeling their game as an MMORPG when there is nothing massive about it anymore?
    Generally, the only zones that are not instanced are the unimportant zones.  A town might not be instanced, or newbie zones that tend to be barren.  
    All of the zones that have loot, etc. are being instanced.  PvP is instanced, and so is PVE.
    So why do people continue to call these imposter of games MMORPGS?  No game with instancing is an MMORPG.  There are just no worlds anymore.  So my question is when is the next real MMORPG coming out?  

     

    2009 had at least one mmorpg that have one enormous non instance world that looks beautifull Darkfall:)

    Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
    In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Originally posted by drbaltazar


     quirhid,its no biggy,i just wish the industry would change the term they use .if its an morpg ok say it like it is.
    if its a mmorpg like eve cool.but saying its a mmorpg when its in fact a morpg make player buying the wrong game
    and thats false advertising.can i buy a mmorpg when i want one and not a morpg thats all most ask 
    its like buying a real time strategy game when you want to play corpg like guild wars
    player just want the proper name for x,y,z game so that they dont buy the wrong product .too often we end up with the wrong product because of this.
    oh brand it mmorpg even if its a rts by the time they see it we ll have sold houdred of thousand.its just not right

     

    Then you only have to accept that the definion is very broad these days. You could partly blame the marketing - MMO(RPG) is such a hot thing these days.

    i have to say your 100 % on that one because when marketing engine start wrong or right they couldnt care less ,espacially when its an online game

     

  • EvasiaEvasia Member Posts: 2,827
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

    Originally posted by Ginkeq


    There are just no more Worlds anymore in MMORPGs.  
    Everything is being instanced, how do companies get away with labeling their game as an MMORPG when there is nothing massive about it anymore?
    Generally, the only zones that are not instanced are the unimportant zones.  A town might not be instanced, or newbie zones that tend to be barren.  
    All of the zones that have loot, etc. are being instanced.  PvP is instanced, and so is PVE.
    So why do people continue to call these imposter of games MMORPGS?  No game with instancing is an MMORPG.  There are just no worlds anymore.  So my question is when is the next real MMORPG coming out?  

    Instancing is here to stay; move with the times, or don't .. the choice is yours.

    But don't expect anyone (especially MMO developers) to care about a steadily dwindling minority of "old school" forum posters who can barely agree on what day it is, let alone what should define a "true MMO".

    The only true MMO is the one that sells well. It's a cruel world.

    That will eventually be downfall off whole genre lol .

    Right listend to guys like you and we have soon brainless instance so called mmo's that need no thinking at all or exploring just take player by hand lead him through game in his own privated instance solo or friends.

    Right thats future you hope makes it:(

    Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
    In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.

  • MikailaMikaila Member UncommonPosts: 45

    Everything is seemingly turning out like Guild Wars. With the major difference that Guild Wars has no monthly fee.

     

    While I don't mind some instances, I agree that the huge amount of instances in most MMOs nowadays is kinda saddening.

    There must be a nice delicate balance. LotRO is doing it right. It has plenty of instances, but they are within a major world and certainly help with the otherwise disability of completing quests.  

  • Andr4599Andr4599 Member Posts: 99

    wow is instanced, in a extreamly smart way. Its the furture, you old elfs need to adept the thing called 'Progress'.

     

  • pojungpojung Member Posts: 810

    This post is seemingly parallel to the general 'Disappointing Year for MMORPGs' made by one of the columnists.

    I do agree that of late, there is little 'journey', little 'roleplay' these days. Either it's instant gratification or it's a tedious grind. Only the first half of the 6 digits is properly represented.

    While some games do focus on immersion, many of them (subjectivity here:) I feel are 'tired' IPs: LOTRO, DND. Albeit FFXIV is on the horizon, and they mix it up with each installment, it, too, bares 'used' elements.

    That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
    We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
    So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
    - MMO_Doubter

  • TatumTatum Member Posts: 1,153

    Lets set some thing straight: we are ALL in the minority.  Every one posting on this forum is in the minority, no matter what your opinion may be.  The majority in the genre (the WoW generation) doesn't have an opinion.  Most probably aren't even aware of different MMO sub-classes out there...they just play WoW.

    They don't play WoW because it has instancing or quests or what ever, they play WoW because it's Blizzard, it's polished, and it has a massive marketing campaign.  If they happen to stick around the genre post WoW, then they might have an opinion on these things.

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