EvE is a completely different game where your avatar is a spaceship, but if you want to believe they are the same go right ahead. There are numerous class builds in Darkfall, and if you don't know this, you are not playing the game or keeping up with it. Due to specializations, this isn't a subject worthy of debate, as any one who is playing knows I am correct and you are wrong. You can't benefit by a number of advantages in Magery, Archery or Melee without giving up some thing. This promotes multiple builds. There is one character slot, not one class. You are totally wrong. -CC
For some reason, I just had to quote that... Made me laugh. Nothing like a cheap laugh.
heh.. granted, it does sound a bit arrogant, but the reply was to a person posting DFO has one class. Even if one were to completely ignore all evidence to the contrary, still, one class would be so versatile, it would be similar to rolling all the classes in other games in to one character. So even assuming no one specializes and reaches maximum skills in all 10 (TEN) magic schools, masters all 8 (EIGHT) melee schools, masters shield, masters archery, switches between the Cloth, Leather, Bone, Chain, Scale, Plate, all the armors that have their benefits and weakness, it should be obvious in a PvP game, you can't possibly use all of those skills and armor variables in one fight. With global cool-downs, one must pick a play style. So yes, to say there is "one class" in DFO is absolutely wrong, when the above is understood and the discussion occurs within context of the game play.
I won't argue the innovative points further, but stand-by my original post on the subject. I shall of course admit there are definately elements of prior MMO's in DFO, like 100% of every MMO made, even the ones listed. I played UO from release in Sept. 97', loved it, but we couldn't build and own cities, or engage in sea warfare. DFO has taken many of the elements of UO and AC-Darktide; it's true, and sure Shadowbane had ctiy building and sieges, but DFO is its own game and on the aggregate, quite unique
There has never been a game like DFO where all the elements it contains can be found in one game, and to all you EvE fans, I'm sure you have a great game pvp game there too, but you can only compare in theory. EvE is a Space Sim where your avatar is a spaceship. So while I recognize the open PvP and a few other aspets in common with DFO, they are very different games;; more like cousins, but certainly not twins.
-CC
What innovations does DFO has that EVE does not?
I'll list a few that EVE has that DFO does not :
Single shard where everyone plays on the same server, no payed expansions so everyone is on the same page, offline skill training, regulated RMT that blends nicely in the game and economy ( aka plexes ), CSM which is a counsil elected by the players that advice the developer face to face what should be fixed, changed or improved on the game, ...
Now DFO has alot of sandbox elements you can find in EVE and UO, making it nice, breaking the mold of EQ, WoW, LOTRO, ... but not making it that special imho.
The games listed here are very special, not good per sé.
I do believe that EVE has more right to belong in this list than DFO, MO, FE or any of the latest sandboxes out there, still I am fine with it that it is not on the list, because like I said, the listed games are pretty out of the ordinary.
First get your facts straight then reply its obvious you dont know much about DFO plus compare DFO with EVE lol thats comepare appels with orangeappels EVE is a spacesim. Darkfall is a open free world in a fantasy setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
What a strange list. I know a bunch of my fellow Eve fanatics are freaking due to it not being on the list.
Just look at those games though.
Maybe if the Op expanded the list two more spaces we would see Wurm and Eve filling the slots but those games the Op listed are off the wall.
Eve is different as its a sandbox, with rts combat, real economy and extremely technical but I believe these games bet it out due to their strange mechanics.
Not a bad thing though we don't need Eve to be on every list, it's already the best.
EvE is a completely different game where your avatar is a spaceship, but if you want to believe they are the same go right ahead. There are numerous class builds in Darkfall, and if you don't know this, you are not playing the game or keeping up with it. Due to specializations, this isn't a subject worthy of debate, as any one who is playing knows I am correct and you are wrong. You can't benefit by a number of advantages in Magery, Archery or Melee without giving up some thing. This promotes multiple builds. There is one character slot, not one class. You are totally wrong. -CC
For some reason, I just had to quote that... Made me laugh. Nothing like a cheap laugh.
heh.. granted, it does sound a bit arrogant, but the reply was to a person posting DFO has one class. Even if one were to completely ignore all evidence to the contrary, still, one class would be so versatile, it would be similar to rolling all the classes in other games in to one character. So even assuming no one specializes and reaches maximum skills in all 10 (TEN) magic schools, masters all 8 (EIGHT) melee schools, masters shield, masters archery, switches between the Cloth, Leather, Bone, Chain, Scale, Plate, all the armors that have their benefits and weakness, it should be obvious in a PvP game, you can't possibly use all of those skills and armor variables in one fight. With global cool-downs, one must pick a play style. So yes, to say there is "one class" in DFO is absolutely wrong, when the above is understood and the discussion occurs within context of the game play.
I won't argue the innovative points further, but stand-by my original post on the subject. I shall of course admit there are definately elements of prior MMO's in DFO, like 100% of every MMO made, even the ones listed. I played UO from release in Sept. 97', loved it, but we couldn't build and own cities, or engage in sea warfare. DFO has taken many of the elements of UO and AC-Darktide; it's true, and sure Shadowbane had ctiy building and sieges, but DFO is its own game and on the aggregate, quite unique
There has never been a game like DFO where all the elements it contains can be found in one game, and to all you EvE fans, I'm sure you have a great game pvp game there too, but you can only compare in theory. EvE is a Space Sim where your avatar is a spaceship. So while I recognize the open PvP and a few other aspets in common with DFO, they are very different games;; more like cousins, but certainly not twins.
-CC
What innovations does DFO has that EVE does not?
I'll list a few that EVE has that DFO does not :
Single shard where everyone plays on the same server, no payed expansions so everyone is on the same page, offline skill training, regulated RMT that blends nicely in the game and economy ( aka plexes ), CSM which is a counsil elected by the players that advice the developer face to face what should be fixed, changed or improved on the game, ...
Now DFO has alot of sandbox elements you can find in EVE and UO, making it nice, breaking the mold of EQ, WoW, LOTRO, ... but not making it that special imho.
The games listed here are very special, not good per sé.
I do believe that EVE has more right to belong in this list than DFO, MO, FE or any of the latest sandboxes out there, still I am fine with it that it is not on the list, because like I said, the listed games are pretty out of the ordinary.
First get your facts straight then reply its obvious you dont know much about DFO plus compare DFO with EVE lol thats comepare appels with orangeappels EVE is a spacesim. Darkfall is a open free world in a fantasy setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp.
So that makes DF worthy of a spot along with these obscure titles?
Dude DF is UO lite with fpv combat. It;s good but it doesn't belong on this list, at least not above these other games.
While both EVE and Darkfall are great games that probably do it better than any other game before them, it doesn't qualify them to be on this list. This list is of games that do it noticeablydifferent. It's not a list of the bestgames.
I realize I'm probably speaking to walls and doors here, but EVE and Darkfall are not innovative games. They've seen how other games do it, and built on those concepts to make their own games. They just built their own games better. And yes, EVE and Darkfall are very alike. Just because one is a space setting and the other is a fantasy setting, it doesn't change the fact that the general recipe is the same - wide open worlds with full PvP and player built contents and economics.
These five games, while not the most popular ones - see title of article, says nothing about popularity. Amazing how many people seems to have missed that - they are still ones of a kind. There are no other MMOs out there with the same recipe as these five games.
"So I contend that the player stories will always be more powerful than the scripted stories that we try to tell the players."
Great concept for an article. List should have included Darkfall Online for the following reasons that make it extremely different from the wow, or typical mmo mold. 1) Open PvP, non-faction based although some advantages for opting for the faction only play style. 2) Full Loot PvP, all inventory and items on paper-doll are dropped upon death. 3) First Person View, No Radar, No seeing behind or to the side unless you turn to look. 4) Player owned Cities and Hamlets that are built and can be sieged and taken, or lost. 5 ) Full Naval Ships and Combat 6) Non Class Based. One can be Melee, Archer, Mage or combo based upon play style. 7) Skills are gained by use, not be attaining levels. Non level based game. Really, list goes on and on. This is an open sandbox game the likes of which is only remotely similar to EvE, Shadowbane, or UO; certainly out of the mold, daring, and successful as well. -CC
/agreed
Seriously. You Darkfall Fans are really overplaying your hand. I respect DFO for what it's trying to do, but if you think it exemplifies the avant garde in gaming like the titles Jon Wood suggested, you REALLY need to play more MMOs.
Yeah... I'm currently playing and enjoying DF and appreciate what AV's set out to do with it. But it does get tiring to see DF fans trying to shoe-horn the game into, seemingly, any article dealing with a list of "5 of anything". If there was a "5 PvE MMOs" article posted, you'd see some DF fans posting how it should have been included, with a bunch of reasons... even though - by the insistence of its own players - it's not a PvE MMO, at all. It looks like little more than shameless proselytizing at this point.
Some Eve players are the same way. If there's a list... Eve should be on it, even if it doesn't fit.
In fact, you tend to see the same people show up in every discussion. Seemingly every single article's discussion thread is overtaken by debates about why DF or Eve should be included.
DFO is "different" from the norm, yes... But at the end of the day, and in the context of the MMOs listed in the article, it really doesn't belong. DFO is, after all, still a high-fantasy MMO with Elves, Dwarves, which is a very generic theme. That it's more sandboxy and happens to have open, FFA PvP with full loot (which it's not the first nor only MMO to have) doesn't make it different enough to warrant a place on that list, and I agree with it not being included.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Since when do EvE or DFO players WANT to be on the same list as Second Life? Usually, if I bring up SL, folks go running. I guess there is a first time for everything...
If you actually read the article, you will notice that all these listed games have no combat or it is a very small part.
EVE and DFO are about combat first and foremost. That right there gets them booted off the list. They are both excellent games, but they aren't anything like the 5 games Jon has listed. Not even close.
Well I dont think "same old" is always bad, nor do I think "new and different" is always good, but I do think this was a great idea for an article and the list is a good one.
Some like to say that the really successful MMOs (WoW, et al) are somehow "wrong". I think this is ridiculous and biased. If millions of people are having fun, there is nothing wrong with that. In fact I think its fantastic that they actually have fun and play the game and havent seen the big "reality" that turns them into frothing fan-bois or anti-fanbois who troll forums 24x7 and seem to find pleasure in nothing.
Which is why I think a list like this is great. It shows that developers are still willing to try new things and take a chance on niche audiences despite the fact that the niches that arent satisfied by WoW seem nearly impossible to please or even keep remotely happy. Ultimately, I do think they stand more to gain from this approach then from trying to beat Blizzard at their own game (especially since the next 4 biggest are WoW clones as well with the exception of EVE), and there is still a huge untapped market (folks who havent even thought to play an MMO yet) just waiting to be served. I look forward to more innovation, and broader experiences (possibly tying in social networking, mobile computing, cloud computing and traditional clients in a holistic and meaningful way) as the market continues to mature and hopefully future lists will be really hard to limit to "just 5" truly unique experiences or approaches.
Its nice to see that Seed is still remembered here and there.
I was the CEO of the company that developed and launched Seed, and the previous posters have it pretty much dead on the money: We released way, way too early, in a way, way too buggy state, and suffered the consequences.
I'm flattered we made it to the list, but honestly, I also find it a bit sad: Obviously, from the comments in this thread, and from a lot of other opinions you can find if you bother to look for them, there is a clear market opportunity for a roleplaying centered game. We tried it and failed, not because the idea was bad, but because we were inexperienced game developers, and inexperienced and unlucky at raking in the investments needed.
Why did noone else pick up the idea ? Not Seed, but the idea about making a roleplaying centered game ? What did we get since 05 when Seed folded ? We got loads and loads of fantasy beat-em-up WOW clones.
When I see WAR executives and designers touting WARs "public quests" as a differentiator to WOW, even calling it an innovation, I honestly laugh. Don't get me wrong, Open quests are a nice and cool thing. It clearly improves the genre.
But an innovation ? Come on....
So. Why are these innovative games small ? They are small, because they cater to niches. Seed catered to roleplayers, Puzzle pirates to puzzle geeks, ATItD to crafters etc. Niches are small. thus, those games are small. But the thing is, you can make a nice viable business even with 50k-100k subscribers.
Originally posted by ChinaCat Originally posted by Hedeon the list is for MMOs that really set apart from the "basic" MMO....DFO got no real innovative approch to the genre. its a kill whatever in fantasy settings game...and loads of MMOs got PvP.
dont know if DFO is a good or bad game, but find it wierd anyone would want it on this list of MMOs that really sets apart from the general way of building an MMO
I'm only responding again because you "find it wierd" DFO would be suggested. Name another MMO now on the market where players create most of the content such as politics due to the following: - Player built Cities and Hamlets that can be captured or lost with functionality of player created walls, cannons, skill trainers, boat yards, laser towers, and the list goes on. -Player created Ships with sea warefare and fortresses at sea that can be captured and/or challenged for control. -Open PvP where one can attack any one, not just the opposite faction. -Death Penalty in PvP and PvE where all you have is left on corpse. -Skill based, not level based. -No class selection, as one can be any class or combo as player desires. Look forward to hearing your reply. -CC
Originally posted by Evasia Originally posted by CyberWiz Originally posted by ChinaCat Originally posted by Bree'ah Originally posted by ChinaCat EvE is a completely different game where your avatar is a spaceship, but if you want to believe they are the same go right ahead. There are numerous class builds in Darkfall, and if you don't know this, you are not playing the game or keeping up with it. Due to specializations, this isn't a subject worthy of debate, as any one who is playing knows I am correct and you are wrong. You can't benefit by a number of advantages in Magery, Archery or Melee without giving up some thing. This promotes multiple builds. There is one character slot, not one class. You are totally wrong. -CC
For some reason, I just had to quote that... Made me laugh. Nothing like a cheap laugh.
heh.. granted, it does sound a bit arrogant, but the reply was to a person posting DFO has one class. Even if one were to completely ignore all evidence to the contrary, still, one class would be so versatile, it would be similar to rolling all the classes in other games in to one character. So even assuming no one specializes and reaches maximum skills in all 10 (TEN) magic schools, masters all 8 (EIGHT) melee schools, masters shield, masters archery, switches between the Cloth, Leather, Bone, Chain, Scale, Plate, all the armors that have their benefits and weakness, it should be obvious in a PvP game, you can't possibly use all of those skills and armor variables in one fight. With global cool-downs, one must pick a play style. So yes, to say there is "one class" in DFO is absolutely wrong, when the above is understood and the discussion occurs within context of the game play. I won't argue the innovative points further, but stand-by my original post on the subject. I shall of course admit there are definately elements of prior MMO's in DFO, like 100% of every MMO made, even the ones listed. I played UO from release in Sept. 97', loved it, but we couldn't build and own cities, or engage in sea warfare. DFO has taken many of the elements of UO and AC-Darktide; it's true, and sure Shadowbane had ctiy building and sieges, but DFO is its own game and on the aggregate, quite unique There has never been a game like DFO where all the elements it contains can be found in one game, and to all you EvE fans, I'm sure you have a great game pvp game there too, but you can only compare in theory. EvE is a Space Sim where your avatar is a spaceship. So while I recognize the open PvP and a few other aspets in common with DFO, they are very different games;; more like cousins, but certainly not twins. -CC
What innovations does DFO has that EVE does not? I'll list a few that EVE has that DFO does not : Single shard where everyone plays on the same server, no payed expansions so everyone is on the same page, offline skill training, regulated RMT that blends nicely in the game and economy ( aka plexes ), CSM which is a counsil elected by the players that advice the developer face to face what should be fixed, changed or improved on the game, ... Now DFO has alot of sandbox elements you can find in EVE and UO, making it nice, breaking the mold of EQ, WoW, LOTRO, ... but not making it that special imho. The games listed here are very special, not good per sé. I do believe that EVE has more right to belong in this list than DFO, MO, FE or any of the latest sandboxes out there, still I am fine with it that it is not on the list, because like I said, the listed games are pretty out of the ordinary.
First get your facts straight then reply its obvious you dont know much about DFO plus compare DFO with EVE lol thats comepare appels with orangeappels EVE is a spacesim. Darkfall is a open free world in a fantasy setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp.
Whereas EvE is an open free world in a scifi setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp. World of difference, there.
EvE is a completely different game where your avatar is a spaceship, but if you want to believe they are the same go right ahead.
There are numerous class builds in Darkfall, and if you don't know this, you are not playing the game or keeping up with it. Due to specializations, this isn't a subject worthy of debate, as any one who is playing knows I am correct and you are wrong. You can't benefit by a number of advantages in Magery, Archery or Melee without giving up some thing. This promotes multiple builds. There is one character slot, not one class. You are totally wrong.
-CC
For some reason, I just had to quote that... Made me laugh. Nothing like a cheap laugh.
heh.. granted, it does sound a bit arrogant, but the reply was to a person posting DFO has one class. Even if one were to completely ignore all evidence to the contrary, still, one class would be so versatile, it would be similar to rolling all the classes in other games in to one character. So even assuming no one specializes and reaches maximum skills in all 10 (TEN) magic schools, masters all 8 (EIGHT) melee schools, masters shield, masters archery, switches between the Cloth, Leather, Bone, Chain, Scale, Plate, all the armors that have their benefits and weakness, it should be obvious in a PvP game, you can't possibly use all of those skills and armor variables in one fight. With global cool-downs, one must pick a play style. So yes, to say there is "one class" in DFO is absolutely wrong, when the above is understood and the discussion occurs within context of the game play.
I won't argue the innovative points further, but stand-by my original post on the subject. I shall of course admit there are definately elements of prior MMO's in DFO, like 100% of every MMO made, even the ones listed. I played UO from release in Sept. 97', loved it, but we couldn't build and own cities, or engage in sea warfare. DFO has taken many of the elements of UO and AC-Darktide; it's true, and sure Shadowbane had ctiy building and sieges, but DFO is its own game and on the aggregate, quite unique
There has never been a game like DFO where all the elements it contains can be found in one game, and to all you EvE fans, I'm sure you have a great game pvp game there too, but you can only compare in theory. EvE is a Space Sim where your avatar is a spaceship. So while I recognize the open PvP and a few other aspets in common with DFO, they are very different games;; more like cousins, but certainly not twins.
-CC
What innovations does DFO has that EVE does not?
I'll list a few that EVE has that DFO does not :
Single shard where everyone plays on the same server, no payed expansions so everyone is on the same page, offline skill training, regulated RMT that blends nicely in the game and economy ( aka plexes ), CSM which is a counsil elected by the players that advice the developer face to face what should be fixed, changed or improved on the game, ...
Now DFO has alot of sandbox elements you can find in EVE and UO, making it nice, breaking the mold of EQ, WoW, LOTRO, ... but not making it that special imho.
The games listed here are very special, not good per sé.
I do believe that EVE has more right to belong in this list than DFO, MO, FE or any of the latest sandboxes out there, still I am fine with it that it is not on the list, because like I said, the listed games are pretty out of the ordinary.
First get your facts straight then reply its obvious you dont know much about DFO plus compare DFO with EVE lol thats comepare appels with orangeappels EVE is a spacesim. Darkfall is a open free world in a fantasy setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp.
Whereas EvE is an open free world in a scifi setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp. World of difference, there.
What's an "orangeappel"?
Darkfall is the fantasy ying to Eve's sci-fi yang.
Comments
For some reason, I just had to quote that... Made me laugh. Nothing like a cheap laugh.
heh.. granted, it does sound a bit arrogant, but the reply was to a person posting DFO has one class. Even if one were to completely ignore all evidence to the contrary, still, one class would be so versatile, it would be similar to rolling all the classes in other games in to one character. So even assuming no one specializes and reaches maximum skills in all 10 (TEN) magic schools, masters all 8 (EIGHT) melee schools, masters shield, masters archery, switches between the Cloth, Leather, Bone, Chain, Scale, Plate, all the armors that have their benefits and weakness, it should be obvious in a PvP game, you can't possibly use all of those skills and armor variables in one fight. With global cool-downs, one must pick a play style. So yes, to say there is "one class" in DFO is absolutely wrong, when the above is understood and the discussion occurs within context of the game play.
I won't argue the innovative points further, but stand-by my original post on the subject. I shall of course admit there are definately elements of prior MMO's in DFO, like 100% of every MMO made, even the ones listed. I played UO from release in Sept. 97', loved it, but we couldn't build and own cities, or engage in sea warfare. DFO has taken many of the elements of UO and AC-Darktide; it's true, and sure Shadowbane had ctiy building and sieges, but DFO is its own game and on the aggregate, quite unique
There has never been a game like DFO where all the elements it contains can be found in one game, and to all you EvE fans, I'm sure you have a great game pvp game there too, but you can only compare in theory. EvE is a Space Sim where your avatar is a spaceship. So while I recognize the open PvP and a few other aspets in common with DFO, they are very different games;; more like cousins, but certainly not twins.
-CC
What innovations does DFO has that EVE does not?
I'll list a few that EVE has that DFO does not :
Single shard where everyone plays on the same server, no payed expansions so everyone is on the same page, offline skill training, regulated RMT that blends nicely in the game and economy ( aka plexes ), CSM which is a counsil elected by the players that advice the developer face to face what should be fixed, changed or improved on the game, ...
Now DFO has alot of sandbox elements you can find in EVE and UO, making it nice, breaking the mold of EQ, WoW, LOTRO, ... but not making it that special imho.
The games listed here are very special, not good per sé.
I do believe that EVE has more right to belong in this list than DFO, MO, FE or any of the latest sandboxes out there, still I am fine with it that it is not on the list, because like I said, the listed games are pretty out of the ordinary.
First get your facts straight then reply its obvious you dont know much about DFO plus compare DFO with EVE lol thats comepare appels with orangeappels EVE is a spacesim. Darkfall is a open free world in a fantasy setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
What a strange list. I know a bunch of my fellow Eve fanatics are freaking due to it not being on the list.
Just look at those games though.
Maybe if the Op expanded the list two more spaces we would see Wurm and Eve filling the slots but those games the Op listed are off the wall.
Eve is different as its a sandbox, with rts combat, real economy and extremely technical but I believe these games bet it out due to their strange mechanics.
Not a bad thing though we don't need Eve to be on every list, it's already the best.
Oh and the best part nothing like the wow clones
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
For some reason, I just had to quote that... Made me laugh. Nothing like a cheap laugh.
heh.. granted, it does sound a bit arrogant, but the reply was to a person posting DFO has one class. Even if one were to completely ignore all evidence to the contrary, still, one class would be so versatile, it would be similar to rolling all the classes in other games in to one character. So even assuming no one specializes and reaches maximum skills in all 10 (TEN) magic schools, masters all 8 (EIGHT) melee schools, masters shield, masters archery, switches between the Cloth, Leather, Bone, Chain, Scale, Plate, all the armors that have their benefits and weakness, it should be obvious in a PvP game, you can't possibly use all of those skills and armor variables in one fight. With global cool-downs, one must pick a play style. So yes, to say there is "one class" in DFO is absolutely wrong, when the above is understood and the discussion occurs within context of the game play.
I won't argue the innovative points further, but stand-by my original post on the subject. I shall of course admit there are definately elements of prior MMO's in DFO, like 100% of every MMO made, even the ones listed. I played UO from release in Sept. 97', loved it, but we couldn't build and own cities, or engage in sea warfare. DFO has taken many of the elements of UO and AC-Darktide; it's true, and sure Shadowbane had ctiy building and sieges, but DFO is its own game and on the aggregate, quite unique
There has never been a game like DFO where all the elements it contains can be found in one game, and to all you EvE fans, I'm sure you have a great game pvp game there too, but you can only compare in theory. EvE is a Space Sim where your avatar is a spaceship. So while I recognize the open PvP and a few other aspets in common with DFO, they are very different games;; more like cousins, but certainly not twins.
-CC
What innovations does DFO has that EVE does not?
I'll list a few that EVE has that DFO does not :
Single shard where everyone plays on the same server, no payed expansions so everyone is on the same page, offline skill training, regulated RMT that blends nicely in the game and economy ( aka plexes ), CSM which is a counsil elected by the players that advice the developer face to face what should be fixed, changed or improved on the game, ...
Now DFO has alot of sandbox elements you can find in EVE and UO, making it nice, breaking the mold of EQ, WoW, LOTRO, ... but not making it that special imho.
The games listed here are very special, not good per sé.
I do believe that EVE has more right to belong in this list than DFO, MO, FE or any of the latest sandboxes out there, still I am fine with it that it is not on the list, because like I said, the listed games are pretty out of the ordinary.
First get your facts straight then reply its obvious you dont know much about DFO plus compare DFO with EVE lol thats comepare appels with orangeappels EVE is a spacesim. Darkfall is a open free world in a fantasy setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp.
So that makes DF worthy of a spot along with these obscure titles?
Dude DF is UO lite with fpv combat. It;s good but it doesn't belong on this list, at least not above these other games.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
While both EVE and Darkfall are great games that probably do it better than any other game before them, it doesn't qualify them to be on this list. This list is of games that do it noticeably different. It's not a list of the best games.
I realize I'm probably speaking to walls and doors here, but EVE and Darkfall are not innovative games. They've seen how other games do it, and built on those concepts to make their own games. They just built their own games better. And yes, EVE and Darkfall are very alike. Just because one is a space setting and the other is a fantasy setting, it doesn't change the fact that the general recipe is the same - wide open worlds with full PvP and player built contents and economics.
These five games, while not the most popular ones - see title of article, says nothing about popularity. Amazing how many people seems to have missed that - they are still ones of a kind. There are no other MMOs out there with the same recipe as these five games.
"So I contend that the player stories will always be more powerful than the scripted stories that we try to tell the players."
- Will Wright
/agreed
Seriously. You Darkfall Fans are really overplaying your hand. I respect DFO for what it's trying to do, but if you think it exemplifies the avant garde in gaming like the titles Jon Wood suggested, you REALLY need to play more MMOs.
Yeah... I'm currently playing and enjoying DF and appreciate what AV's set out to do with it. But it does get tiring to see DF fans trying to shoe-horn the game into, seemingly, any article dealing with a list of "5 of anything". If there was a "5 PvE MMOs" article posted, you'd see some DF fans posting how it should have been included, with a bunch of reasons... even though - by the insistence of its own players - it's not a PvE MMO, at all. It looks like little more than shameless proselytizing at this point.
Some Eve players are the same way. If there's a list... Eve should be on it, even if it doesn't fit.
In fact, you tend to see the same people show up in every discussion. Seemingly every single article's discussion thread is overtaken by debates about why DF or Eve should be included.
DFO is "different" from the norm, yes... But at the end of the day, and in the context of the MMOs listed in the article, it really doesn't belong. DFO is, after all, still a high-fantasy MMO with Elves, Dwarves, which is a very generic theme. That it's more sandboxy and happens to have open, FFA PvP with full loot (which it's not the first nor only MMO to have) doesn't make it different enough to warrant a place on that list, and I agree with it not being included.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I was going to suggest MO for this list, but that's in essence a large part of UO.
But what about Wurm Online?
As interesting as this list may be, I think the ensuing discussions just go to show (again) that Darkfall and EVE players have serious issues.
They seem to feel they should be on every list and noted in any and all MMO-related discussions.
Really, get over yourselves and your games. Not everybody thinks your favorite game is as wonderful as you do. It's not personal.
Since when do EvE or DFO players WANT to be on the same list as Second Life? Usually, if I bring up SL, folks go running. I guess there is a first time for everything...
If you actually read the article, you will notice that all these listed games have no combat or it is a very small part.
EVE and DFO are about combat first and foremost. That right there gets them booted off the list. They are both excellent games, but they aren't anything like the 5 games Jon has listed. Not even close.
Well I dont think "same old" is always bad, nor do I think "new and different" is always good, but I do think this was a great idea for an article and the list is a good one.
Some like to say that the really successful MMOs (WoW, et al) are somehow "wrong". I think this is ridiculous and biased. If millions of people are having fun, there is nothing wrong with that. In fact I think its fantastic that they actually have fun and play the game and havent seen the big "reality" that turns them into frothing fan-bois or anti-fanbois who troll forums 24x7 and seem to find pleasure in nothing.
Which is why I think a list like this is great. It shows that developers are still willing to try new things and take a chance on niche audiences despite the fact that the niches that arent satisfied by WoW seem nearly impossible to please or even keep remotely happy. Ultimately, I do think they stand more to gain from this approach then from trying to beat Blizzard at their own game (especially since the next 4 biggest are WoW clones as well with the exception of EVE), and there is still a huge untapped market (folks who havent even thought to play an MMO yet) just waiting to be served. I look forward to more innovation, and broader experiences (possibly tying in social networking, mobile computing, cloud computing and traditional clients in a holistic and meaningful way) as the market continues to mature and hopefully future lists will be really hard to limit to "just 5" truly unique experiences or approaches.
Its nice to see that Seed is still remembered here and there.
I was the CEO of the company that developed and launched Seed, and the previous posters have it pretty much dead on the money: We released way, way too early, in a way, way too buggy state, and suffered the consequences.
I'm flattered we made it to the list, but honestly, I also find it a bit sad: Obviously, from the comments in this thread, and from a lot of other opinions you can find if you bother to look for them, there is a clear market opportunity for a roleplaying centered game. We tried it and failed, not because the idea was bad, but because we were inexperienced game developers, and inexperienced and unlucky at raking in the investments needed.
Why did noone else pick up the idea ? Not Seed, but the idea about making a roleplaying centered game ? What did we get since 05 when Seed folded ? We got loads and loads of fantasy beat-em-up WOW clones.
When I see WAR executives and designers touting WARs "public quests" as a differentiator to WOW, even calling it an innovation, I honestly laugh. Don't get me wrong, Open quests are a nice and cool thing. It clearly improves the genre.
But an innovation ? Come on....
So. Why are these innovative games small ? They are small, because they cater to niches. Seed catered to roleplayers, Puzzle pirates to puzzle geeks, ATItD to crafters etc. Niches are small. thus, those games are small. But the thing is, you can make a nice viable business even with 50k-100k subscribers.
I'm only responding again because you "find it wierd" DFO would be suggested.
Name another MMO now on the market where players create most of the content such as politics due to the following:
- Player built Cities and Hamlets that can be captured or lost with functionality of player created walls, cannons, skill trainers, boat yards, laser towers, and the list goes on.
-Player created Ships with sea warefare and fortresses at sea that can be captured and/or challenged for control.
-Open PvP where one can attack any one, not just the opposite faction.
-Death Penalty in PvP and PvE where all you have is left on corpse.
-Skill based, not level based.
-No class selection, as one can be any class or combo as player desires.
Look forward to hearing your reply.
-CC
Wait...wait...an answer is coming to me...
E...
V...
...
No, I've lost it now.
For some reason, I just had to quote that... Made me laugh. Nothing like a cheap laugh.
heh.. granted, it does sound a bit arrogant, but the reply was to a person posting DFO has one class. Even if one were to completely ignore all evidence to the contrary, still, one class would be so versatile, it would be similar to rolling all the classes in other games in to one character. So even assuming no one specializes and reaches maximum skills in all 10 (TEN) magic schools, masters all 8 (EIGHT) melee schools, masters shield, masters archery, switches between the Cloth, Leather, Bone, Chain, Scale, Plate, all the armors that have their benefits and weakness, it should be obvious in a PvP game, you can't possibly use all of those skills and armor variables in one fight. With global cool-downs, one must pick a play style. So yes, to say there is "one class" in DFO is absolutely wrong, when the above is understood and the discussion occurs within context of the game play.
I won't argue the innovative points further, but stand-by my original post on the subject. I shall of course admit there are definately elements of prior MMO's in DFO, like 100% of every MMO made, even the ones listed. I played UO from release in Sept. 97', loved it, but we couldn't build and own cities, or engage in sea warfare. DFO has taken many of the elements of UO and AC-Darktide; it's true, and sure Shadowbane had ctiy building and sieges, but DFO is its own game and on the aggregate, quite unique
There has never been a game like DFO where all the elements it contains can be found in one game, and to all you EvE fans, I'm sure you have a great game pvp game there too, but you can only compare in theory. EvE is a Space Sim where your avatar is a spaceship. So while I recognize the open PvP and a few other aspets in common with DFO, they are very different games;; more like cousins, but certainly not twins.
-CC
What innovations does DFO has that EVE does not?
I'll list a few that EVE has that DFO does not :
Single shard where everyone plays on the same server, no payed expansions so everyone is on the same page, offline skill training, regulated RMT that blends nicely in the game and economy ( aka plexes ), CSM which is a counsil elected by the players that advice the developer face to face what should be fixed, changed or improved on the game, ...
Now DFO has alot of sandbox elements you can find in EVE and UO, making it nice, breaking the mold of EQ, WoW, LOTRO, ... but not making it that special imho.
The games listed here are very special, not good per sé.
I do believe that EVE has more right to belong in this list than DFO, MO, FE or any of the latest sandboxes out there, still I am fine with it that it is not on the list, because like I said, the listed games are pretty out of the ordinary.
First get your facts straight then reply its obvious you dont know much about DFO plus compare DFO with EVE lol thats comepare appels with orangeappels EVE is a spacesim. Darkfall is a open free world in a fantasy setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp.
Whereas EvE is an open free world in a scifi setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp. World of difference, there.
What's an "orangeappel"?
For some reason, I just had to quote that... Made me laugh. Nothing like a cheap laugh.
heh.. granted, it does sound a bit arrogant, but the reply was to a person posting DFO has one class. Even if one were to completely ignore all evidence to the contrary, still, one class would be so versatile, it would be similar to rolling all the classes in other games in to one character. So even assuming no one specializes and reaches maximum skills in all 10 (TEN) magic schools, masters all 8 (EIGHT) melee schools, masters shield, masters archery, switches between the Cloth, Leather, Bone, Chain, Scale, Plate, all the armors that have their benefits and weakness, it should be obvious in a PvP game, you can't possibly use all of those skills and armor variables in one fight. With global cool-downs, one must pick a play style. So yes, to say there is "one class" in DFO is absolutely wrong, when the above is understood and the discussion occurs within context of the game play.
I won't argue the innovative points further, but stand-by my original post on the subject. I shall of course admit there are definately elements of prior MMO's in DFO, like 100% of every MMO made, even the ones listed. I played UO from release in Sept. 97', loved it, but we couldn't build and own cities, or engage in sea warfare. DFO has taken many of the elements of UO and AC-Darktide; it's true, and sure Shadowbane had ctiy building and sieges, but DFO is its own game and on the aggregate, quite unique
There has never been a game like DFO where all the elements it contains can be found in one game, and to all you EvE fans, I'm sure you have a great game pvp game there too, but you can only compare in theory. EvE is a Space Sim where your avatar is a spaceship. So while I recognize the open PvP and a few other aspets in common with DFO, they are very different games;; more like cousins, but certainly not twins.
-CC
What innovations does DFO has that EVE does not?
I'll list a few that EVE has that DFO does not :
Single shard where everyone plays on the same server, no payed expansions so everyone is on the same page, offline skill training, regulated RMT that blends nicely in the game and economy ( aka plexes ), CSM which is a counsil elected by the players that advice the developer face to face what should be fixed, changed or improved on the game, ...
Now DFO has alot of sandbox elements you can find in EVE and UO, making it nice, breaking the mold of EQ, WoW, LOTRO, ... but not making it that special imho.
The games listed here are very special, not good per sé.
I do believe that EVE has more right to belong in this list than DFO, MO, FE or any of the latest sandboxes out there, still I am fine with it that it is not on the list, because like I said, the listed games are pretty out of the ordinary.
First get your facts straight then reply its obvious you dont know much about DFO plus compare DFO with EVE lol thats comepare appels with orangeappels EVE is a spacesim. Darkfall is a open free world in a fantasy setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp.
Whereas EvE is an open free world in a scifi setting where you can do anything you want almost no limitations with hardcore full loot pvp. World of difference, there.
What's an "orangeappel"?
Darkfall is the fantasy ying to Eve's sci-fi yang.