No, I was asking you why you thought someone playing solo is hurting someone else's gameplay.
I know devs make the games they want to make, me pissing and moaning will do nothing. I merely choose to play games that allow for my own playstyle. I don't join a game that forces grouping and then whine to try and get it changed.
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
How is someone soloing impeding on anyone else's game play? And how is a group impeding on soloers? Why can't person A play how person A wants to play, and Person B can play how person B wants to play?
Ask that from the developers, not me.If you design the game in a specific way, you step on one playstyle's shoes while catering to the other. I wish it wasn't like that, but what can I do.
When alot of people choose a certain gamestyle, it is true that they indirectly move the genre in a specific way, and developers try to follow it, but to blame the people that choose whats fun for them for your lack of fun is ridiculous. Blame developers for not making enough niche games, but dont blame the players for choosing how to spend their time.
No .. I'm telling you to recognize what having niche preferences means. It means that you don't get everything you want, because giving you what you want means that the majority of the playerbase don't get what they want. Also, replace the highlight with "the vast majority of other players".
So majority's opinion is more important than mine? You are the bad guy after all. Every game must cater to your kind, because if it doesn't, it will cater to niche, and that can't be allowed.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
No, I was asking you why you thought someone playing solo is hurting someone else's gameplay. I know devs make the games they want to make, me pissing and moaning will do nothing. I merely choose to play games that allow for my own playstyle. I don't join a game that forces grouping and then whine to try and get it changed.
It doesn't, but that's not what Ilvaldyr is talking about. "Majority's opinion decides the playstyle of everyone". That's what's hurting my gameplay.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
My opinion: If you want to play solo, play a SINGLE player game. If you want to play with other people play a MULTIPLAYER game. Playing solo in a multiplayer game is an oxymoron.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
No .. I'm telling you to recognize what having niche preferences means. It means that you don't get everything you want, because giving you what you want means that the majority of the playerbase don't get what they want. Also, replace the highlight with "the vast majority of other players".
So majority's opinion is more important than mine? You are the bad guy after all. Every game must cater to your kind, because if it doesn't, it will cater to niche, and that can't be allowed.
As per my edited post above:
I don't want to deny you your content. I want to enjoy mine, which happens to be the majority.
You want to remove my content (the majority one) to promote yours (the minority one).
Yours is the unreasonable demand.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
My opinion: If you want to play solo, play a SINGLE player game. If you want to play with other people play a MULTIPLAYER game. Playing solo in a multiplayer game is an oxymoron.
Communal solo play in a persistent world is not the same as a single player game.
Different playstyle, different game experience.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
As per my edited post above: I don't want to deny you your content. I want to enjoy mine, which happens to be the majority.
You want to remove my content (the majority one) to promote yours (the minority one). Yours is the unreasonable demand.
So now you're having a white knight syndrome as well? Thou are the holy one and the bad extremists want to do bad things for everyone.
All both groups of extremists need is one game that caters to them. From where you figured out that we're trying to take over the world, I don't know. That "holier than thou" attitude is pretty retarded nonetheless.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
When alot of people choose a certain gamestyle, it is true that they indirectly move the genre in a specific way, and developers try to follow it, but to blame the people that choose whats fun for them for your lack of fun is ridiculous. Blame developers for not making enough niche games, but dont blame the players for choosing how to spend their time.
Developers affect the way people choose their playstyle by making one or the other simpler, easier, or more fun. Free will doesn't exist!
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
When alot of people choose a certain gamestyle, it is true that they indirectly move the genre in a specific way, and developers try to follow it, but to blame the people that choose whats fun for them for your lack of fun is ridiculous. Blame developers for not making enough niche games, but dont blame the players for choosing how to spend their time.
Developers affect the way people choose their playstyle by making one or the other simpler, easier, or more fun. Free will doesn't exist!
Highlighted for 'win'. Sounds good to me, thats why I play these things! =D
Highlighted for 'win'. Sounds good to me, thats why I play these things! =D
Well, not that I was blaming the players anyway. If I were to play a solo MMO, I'd solo in it most likely. Can't really be blamed for doing that when it's much simpler.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
So now you're having a white knight syndrome as well? Thou are the holy one and the bad extremists want to do bad things for everyone. All both groups of extremists need is one game that caters to them. From where you figured out that we're trying to take over the world, I don't know.
How difficult is this to understand?
A game can give us both the content that we want.
You want a game that has only your content.
I've no problem with games being made that cater to the extremists. They already have been. Games like Darkfall. FFXI. EQ. DDO. What I do have a problem with is people like you who feel compelled to belittle everyone elses preferences and prattle on about how the genre is going down the toilet because not every AAA released game supports your own.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
My opinion: If you want to play solo, play a SINGLE player game. If you want to play with other people play a MULTIPLAYER game. Playing solo in a multiplayer game is an oxymoron.
Communal solo play in a persistent world is not the same as a single player game.
Different playstyle, different game experience.
Ok so you see other people running around, and can talk to them. Just put a messenger on the screen, then you have your chat box in a single player game. Not much difference.
Again I just think its contradictory to log into a multiplayer game to play by yourself. I guess I just dont understand whats the big alure is to just seeing other people and being able to talk, but not wanting to play with them. Something isnt right here. Its like playing call of duty online, but playing in a private match by yourself. It makes no sense. You log into online games to play with other people.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
A game can give us both the content that we want. You want a game that has only your content.
I've no problem with games being made that cater to the extremists. They already have been. Games like Darkfall. FFXI. EQ. DDO. What I do have a problem with is people like you who feel compelled to belittle everyone elses preferences and prattle on about how the genre is going down the toilet because not every AAA released game supports your own.
No, it can't. It can cater to you, or it can cater to me. There is no middleground.
[mod edit]
I don't have problem because not every AAA game supports my own preferences. I have a problem because no AAA game supports them (except the ones from years ago).
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
When alot of people choose a certain gamestyle, it is true that they indirectly move the genre in a specific way, and developers try to follow it, but to blame the people that choose whats fun for them for your lack of fun is ridiculous. Blame developers for not making enough niche games, but dont blame the players for choosing how to spend their time.
Agreed here.
Blame the developer for designing down the middle. When a majority of players choose to follow one playstyle in a game (be it solo or group) the dev DO NOT have to shift focus to that extreme. They could still attempt to balance out the share of the content because there will always be people who want/love the other playstyle. Sadly most devs just dont bother and will just follow the majority trend.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Ok so you see other people running around, and can talk to them. Just put a messenger on the screen, then you have your chat box in a single player game. Not much difference. Again I just think its contradictory to log into a multiplayer game to play by yourself. I guess I just dont understand whats the big alure is to just seeing other people and being able to talk, but not wanting to play with them. Something isnt right here. Its like playing call of duty online, but playing in a private match by yourself. It makes no sense. You log into online games to play with other people. Grouping up to grind mobs is not the only form of player interaction. PvP. Economy. Politics. Socialisation. RP. Grouping. Raiding.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Ok so you see other people running around, and can talk to them. Just put a messenger on the screen, then you have your chat box in a single player game. Not much difference. Again I just think its contradictory to log into a multiplayer game to play by yourself. I guess I just dont understand whats the big alure is to just seeing other people and being able to talk, but not wanting to play with them. Something isnt right here. Its like playing call of duty online, but playing in a private match by yourself. It makes no sense. You log into online games to play with other people.
They get enjoyment just from people being there with them. Why that is so important to them I don't know, but that's what I've gathered from reading the comments so far.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
So now you're having a white knight syndrome as well? Thou are the holy one and the bad extremists want to do bad things for everyone. All both groups of extremists need is one game that caters to them. From where you figured out that we're trying to take over the world, I don't know.
How difficult is this to understand?
A game can give us both the content that we want.
You want a game that has only your content.
I've no problem with games being made that cater to the extremists. They already have been. Games like Darkfall. FFXI. EQ. DDO. What I do have a problem with is people like you who feel compelled to belittle everyone elses preferences and prattle on about how the genre is going down the toilet because not every AAA released game supports your own.
this isnt my fight but i am going to put in my 2 cents here. I want you to name AAA games post wow thats made a game for groupers. Now name games post wow that was made for solo'ers.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
My opinion: If you want to play solo, play a SINGLE player game. If you want to play with other people play a MULTIPLAYER game. Playing solo in a multiplayer game is an oxymoron.
Communal solo play in a persistent world is not the same as a single player game.
Different playstyle, different game experience.
Ok so you see other people running around, and can talk to them. Just put a messenger on the screen, then you have your chat box in a single player game. Not much difference.
Again I just think its contradictory to log into a multiplayer game to play by yourself. I guess I just dont understand whats the big alure is to just seeing other people and being able to talk, but not wanting to play with them. Something isnt right here. Its like playing call of duty online, but playing in a private match by yourself. It makes no sense. You log into online games to play with other people.
It is not called a massivley multiplayer online group only roleplaying game. It has people in it, you can play around them, compete against them, pvp gank em, whatever you choose. just because it has a lot of ppl online does not mean by default you need to team with them. I personally like to duo (me and my wife), but usually don't like teaming because most people are asshats or just dumb. I team sometimes, but I should not have to team just because I'm in an mmo.
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
No, it can't. It can cater to you, or it can cater to me. There is no middleground. Have I belittled your preferences? Again with that holier than thou attitude.. getting annoying. I don't have problem because not every AAA game supports my own preferences. I have a problem because no AAA game supports them (except the ones from years ago).
Deal with it.
Of course there's a middleground. If you like grouping and I like soloing then a game with both types of content obviously caters to both of us. The problem with extremists is that they're not happy with just being catered to .. they require that all other playstyles are excluded.
AAA games cost millions of dollers. Dozens of millions of dollars. In some cases, upwards of a hundred million dollars. Now you tell me, you're an investor. Do you risk that amount of money on a minority of vocal forum trolls who can't even agree on what day of the week it is?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
The MMO genre is in the toliet because unlike the past where it took MMO's many months to a year to peak in population then hold steady to a slow decline after awhile. MMO's now are peaked in the first month of launch and sharply decline thereafter. Why is this because these recent mmo's are nothing but a single player online game. There played just like that too. People fly through the conent and get it done in a couple months then move on.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Due to time constraints I usually solo, however the one perspective in this debate that I think is the root cause of the friction is the subset of solo-players who think that there should be no rewards or content that group-play can achieve or access that solo-play can't achieve.
And even though I'm primarily a solo-er, I think that idea is ridiculous.
Originally posted by toddze this isnt my fight but i am going to put in my 2 cents here. I want you to name AAA games post wow thats made a game for groupers. Now name games post wow that was made for solo'ers.
AAA games post WoW that have zero solo content: DDO. They soon changed that.
AAA games post WoW that have zero group content: None.
AAA games have always catered to both playstyles by including solo and group content. AoC was the epitome of this philosophy, every zone had a solo instance and group instance.
I always wondered why the groupers don't play it. It's AAA. It's a good game (better now than at launch) and you can group for the entirety of the game in the Epic zone instances without being forced to ever solo. So you tell me; why aren't you all playing AoC?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
It is not that complicated Hynamen not everyone who plays mmos wants to group or be forced to wait for groups all day. Do you seriously want people to group even when they are collecting crafting materials? You can't have a game where you are solo from time you start to the very end and for any reason I can think of you can not have a game where you are either in a group or sitting on your arse waiting for one. Nothing about this has anything to do with a superiority complex .
Comments
No, I was asking you why you thought someone playing solo is hurting someone else's gameplay.
I know devs make the games they want to make, me pissing and moaning will do nothing. I merely choose to play games that allow for my own playstyle. I don't join a game that forces grouping and then whine to try and get it changed.
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
Ask that from the developers, not me.If you design the game in a specific way, you step on one playstyle's shoes while catering to the other. I wish it wasn't like that, but what can I do.
When alot of people choose a certain gamestyle, it is true that they indirectly move the genre in a specific way, and developers try to follow it, but to blame the people that choose whats fun for them for your lack of fun is ridiculous. Blame developers for not making enough niche games, but dont blame the players for choosing how to spend their time.
So majority's opinion is more important than mine? You are the bad guy after all. Every game must cater to your kind, because if it doesn't, it will cater to niche, and that can't be allowed.
It doesn't, but that's not what Ilvaldyr is talking about. "Majority's opinion decides the playstyle of everyone". That's what's hurting my gameplay.
My opinion: If you want to play solo, play a SINGLE player game. If you want to play with other people play a MULTIPLAYER game. Playing solo in a multiplayer game is an oxymoron.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
So majority's opinion is more important than mine? You are the bad guy after all. Every game must cater to your kind, because if it doesn't, it will cater to niche, and that can't be allowed.
As per my edited post above:
I don't want to deny you your content. I want to enjoy mine, which happens to be the majority.
You want to remove my content (the majority one) to promote yours (the minority one).
Yours is the unreasonable demand.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Communal solo play in a persistent world is not the same as a single player game.
Different playstyle, different game experience.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
So now you're having a white knight syndrome as well? Thou are the holy one and the bad extremists want to do bad things for everyone.
All both groups of extremists need is one game that caters to them. From where you figured out that we're trying to take over the world, I don't know. That "holier than thou" attitude is pretty retarded nonetheless.
I find it sad that everyone is ignoring my very logical previous post on where to lay the blame :,-(
Developers affect the way people choose their playstyle by making one or the other simpler, easier, or more fun. Free will doesn't exist!
Developers affect the way people choose their playstyle by making one or the other simpler, easier, or more fun. Free will doesn't exist!
Highlighted for 'win'. Sounds good to me, thats why I play these things! =D
Well, not that I was blaming the players anyway. If I were to play a solo MMO, I'd solo in it most likely. Can't really be blamed for doing that when it's much simpler.
How difficult is this to understand?
A game can give us both the content that we want.
You want a game that has only your content.
I've no problem with games being made that cater to the extremists. They already have been. Games like Darkfall. FFXI. EQ. DDO. What I do have a problem with is people like you who feel compelled to belittle everyone elses preferences and prattle on about how the genre is going down the toilet because not every AAA released game supports your own.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Communal solo play in a persistent world is not the same as a single player game.
Different playstyle, different game experience.
Ok so you see other people running around, and can talk to them. Just put a messenger on the screen, then you have your chat box in a single player game. Not much difference.
Again I just think its contradictory to log into a multiplayer game to play by yourself. I guess I just dont understand whats the big alure is to just seeing other people and being able to talk, but not wanting to play with them. Something isnt right here. Its like playing call of duty online, but playing in a private match by yourself. It makes no sense. You log into online games to play with other people.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
No, it can't. It can cater to you, or it can cater to me. There is no middleground.
[mod edit]
I don't have problem because not every AAA game supports my own preferences. I have a problem because no AAA game supports them (except the ones from years ago).
Agreed here.
Blame the developer for designing down the middle. When a majority of players choose to follow one playstyle in a game (be it solo or group) the dev DO NOT have to shift focus to that extreme. They could still attempt to balance out the share of the content because there will always be people who want/love the other playstyle. Sadly most devs just dont bother and will just follow the majority trend.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
They get enjoyment just from people being there with them. Why that is so important to them I don't know, but that's what I've gathered from reading the comments so far.
How difficult is this to understand?
A game can give us both the content that we want.
You want a game that has only your content.
I've no problem with games being made that cater to the extremists. They already have been. Games like Darkfall. FFXI. EQ. DDO. What I do have a problem with is people like you who feel compelled to belittle everyone elses preferences and prattle on about how the genre is going down the toilet because not every AAA released game supports your own.
this isnt my fight but i am going to put in my 2 cents here. I want you to name AAA games post wow thats made a game for groupers. Now name games post wow that was made for solo'ers.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Communal solo play in a persistent world is not the same as a single player game.
Different playstyle, different game experience.
Ok so you see other people running around, and can talk to them. Just put a messenger on the screen, then you have your chat box in a single player game. Not much difference.
Again I just think its contradictory to log into a multiplayer game to play by yourself. I guess I just dont understand whats the big alure is to just seeing other people and being able to talk, but not wanting to play with them. Something isnt right here. Its like playing call of duty online, but playing in a private match by yourself. It makes no sense. You log into online games to play with other people.
It is not called a massivley multiplayer online group only roleplaying game. It has people in it, you can play around them, compete against them, pvp gank em, whatever you choose. just because it has a lot of ppl online does not mean by default you need to team with them. I personally like to duo (me and my wife), but usually don't like teaming because most people are asshats or just dumb. I team sometimes, but I should not have to team just because I'm in an mmo.
My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.
Deal with it.
Of course there's a middleground. If you like grouping and I like soloing then a game with both types of content obviously caters to both of us. The problem with extremists is that they're not happy with just being catered to .. they require that all other playstyles are excluded.
AAA games cost millions of dollers. Dozens of millions of dollars. In some cases, upwards of a hundred million dollars. Now you tell me, you're an investor. Do you risk that amount of money on a minority of vocal forum trolls who can't even agree on what day of the week it is?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
The MMO genre is in the toliet because unlike the past where it took MMO's many months to a year to peak in population then hold steady to a slow decline after awhile. MMO's now are peaked in the first month of launch and sharply decline thereafter. Why is this because these recent mmo's are nothing but a single player online game. There played just like that too. People fly through the conent and get it done in a couple months then move on.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Due to time constraints I usually solo, however the one perspective in this debate that I think is the root cause of the friction is the subset of solo-players who think that there should be no rewards or content that group-play can achieve or access that solo-play can't achieve.
And even though I'm primarily a solo-er, I think that idea is ridiculous.
AAA games post WoW that have zero solo content: DDO. They soon changed that.
AAA games post WoW that have zero group content: None.
AAA games have always catered to both playstyles by including solo and group content. AoC was the epitome of this philosophy, every zone had a solo instance and group instance.
I always wondered why the groupers don't play it. It's AAA. It's a good game (better now than at launch) and you can group for the entirety of the game in the Epic zone instances without being forced to ever solo. So you tell me; why aren't you all playing AoC?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
It is not that complicated Hynamen not everyone who plays mmos wants to group or be forced to wait for groups all day. Do you seriously want people to group even when they are collecting crafting materials? You can't have a game where you are solo from time you start to the very end and for any reason I can think of you can not have a game where you are either in a group or sitting on your arse waiting for one. Nothing about this has anything to do with a superiority complex .