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Right now I have to say SWG's biggest flaw is Presentation

VarnyVarny Member Posts: 765

 My month is nearly over and I've had some fun, but I wont be staying which is mainly down to presentation. The game feels very cheap a lot of the time and I can't feel special playing it because it just feels like a game desperately in need of a face lift. Graphically it is alright, considering what the game does but there are areas that let it down. Items in TCG I've noticed like new vehicles look amazing where as new dungeons they add into the game often look really bad. So heres a list of things that SOE need to work on for 2010...



- UI.



I keep saying this but it really does need to change as it is very ugly. It just feels cheap and doesn't function well, specially for new players who are used to a WoW standard. The game has always needed a new UI, the Pre NGE one was better because it didn't look as cheap but it's never been great. I think the skill wheel looks cheap and it's not a very good indication of where you are and the skills doesn't tell you enough information like no cool down timer info or their damage or anything. I hate the pictures that look MS Painted on to the old UI. I think the grey borders around everything look really cheap as well. I mean look at it... horrible looking thing:



http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5303/swgclientr2009121213363.png



I just don't understand how you can have the art on TCG and then have it so poor on the UI in the game, which is even more important. I mean the UI is the first thing people see and this one puts new players off. Give us some Art for icons that looks more like this quality and give us a nicer looking UI which doesn't look cheap. We could choose from different styles like the cards have different styles for rebel, imps etc etc.



www.tentonhammer.com/system/files/images/SWG+TCG+05.jpg







- Movement and controls.



You know what the movement is too snappy and fast, it feels like you're moving at super speeds a lot of the time. Just slow them down a bit and make the animations look nicer because of it. When I used to play I used to love the animations and how smooth movement was, now it just looks stupid, specially creature mounts and Jedi Run. Bring back terrain negotiation so it doesn't feel stupid how you can run up every steep mountain ultra fast like it wasn't even there. 

Also the default controls need to be set to a new standard like new players want strafe on as default. Not giving them that puts them off the game right away and makes it feel so dated. The old timers can set it to how they like but strafe should be on as default. Other things as well like take Jump off space Bar by default because the game looks stupid having that. New players press it and again that horrible animation puts them off, specially as you can't actually jump over anything. 





- Animations and Combat.



Again I used to love some of the old animations like how your character used to accelerate and slow down gradually. I loved the speed of how combat flowed like with the animations which just looked smooth and great. However now with the ultra speed of the combat it just looks stupid and the animations are all wrong. They put animation priorities in to make them look ok but because of that it messes up the combat. Quite often I'll hit an attack and it doesn't animate on screen so I dunno if I did it or not. Bring back the old targeting system as default which was much better, means you can slow the combat down to match the animations and fix the flaws in the current targeting system. You know things like not being able to have large pets as people hide in them or how your pet comes in close in combat and you're trying to click on the enemy but you converse with your pet instead. Things like attacking the enemy and having another one walk in front and you attack them instead. Also I'll mention this again but get rid of that damn Jumping animation on Space bar when you're moving.



- Graphics

Things like textures could do with higher resolution versions and shadows need fixing because they're messed up. The shadows show all the polygons on peoples bodies and they make trees look cartoony. You often get them weird shadow bugs when you just get long lines of shadows coming out from an object. Character models could do with a bit of a remodel like the humans have always been pretty ugly, specially the female body with their saggy arses. 



Every new dungeon I see the same textures or layout used over and over again. You know them bunkers with the boring grey texture and the surrounding fence like walls you always see around the bunkers. Often it'll just be empty rooms with a box you can walk through and an NPC there which hasn't been modeled but just made in the character creator and put there, probably using the in game crafters clothes. The same old Red and Black computer terminals and Caves with nothing in them. Darth Vader could do with a remodel like Blizzard do to all their old NPCs.



If you're gonna add new content in the game then make it look newer and fresh with lots of detail. Stop just reusing assets already in the game which makes the content feel boring, like you're seen it 100 times before. Which you probably have doing legacy quests lol.



- Collision.



This is something that isn't as important as the others but it would be really nice to not be able to walk through all the objects in a room lol. It would be nice to be able to jump on things and have the world feeling fully 3D. It would also bring new options in for future dungeon designs like the complexity in the level design with several levels like WoW has.

 

These are the main problems with Galaxies right now and it is all down to the presentation really. The main problems are the UI and animations which just really put you off the game. The JTLS UI looks alright, at the very least just give us the option to use that on the ground because it doesn't have the grey bits stuck to the UI. If these changes were done to the game I could feel like I'm playing an MMO meant for adults. Things like the skill wheel just make me not want to play lol.

 

Comments

  • SioBabbleSioBabble Member Posts: 2,803

    So much of the graphical presentation of SWG is ripped off from WoW, but poorer quality overall.  The TCG, otoh, looks pretty slick...much slicker than the actual game's presentation.  Which tells you a lot about priorities at SmedleyFAIL central.

    The overall graphical impression of the game minus the UI isn't that bad, but as you noted the animations suck and the movement of characters suck, and the meatlump asstards were told this FOUR YEARS AGO but in order to make combat "appear" faster they sped everything up and wrecked animations and movement in the process.  The game used to be elegant and graceful, now it's cheap and clunky.

    Do not get me started on collision detection.  We were told after the NGE was excreted onto the MMO landscape that combat, in particular, would be "amazing" once collision detection was put into the game, in "about six months".  Well, we're 8 full Friedman Units past those promises and it appears collision detection has gone the way of the Star Wars Christmas Special...

    Meanwhile, over at Blizzard, they're working on revamping the entire old world for flight and updating zones (turning Desolace, for example, into a garden) for their next expansion.  The entire gameworld being substantially revamped.  Something the clowns at SOE are incapable of doing...it's in the "too hard" box, I guess.

    There is no hell hot enough to adequately punish those responsible for screwing up this game. 

    CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

    Once a denizen of Ahazi

  • RutiliusRutilius Member Posts: 12

    Wasn't SWG released before WOW? They might have borrowed some things from WOW after the NGE...but to say the graphics are a rip-off considering they have not really changed since release.

     

     

    “The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”..anon


    “When ignorance gets started it knows no bounds”..Will Rogers

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Member Posts: 1,384
    Originally posted by SioBabble



    Meanwhile, over at Blizzard, they're working on revamping the entire old world for flight and updating zones (turning Desolace, for example, into a garden) for their next expansion.  The entire gameworld being substantially revamped.  Something the clowns at SOE are incapable of doing...it's in the "too hard" box, I guess.
     

     

    Ya your right they sure are clowns, imagine that, a game that has the most subs out of any mmo can afford to do stuff that a low tier sub game cant, its just madness!

     

    Its like complaining that a small town doesnt have a  $100million stadium like a big city does.

     

    Its sad that wow hasnt doen this SOONER, considering how much money they have.

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • SioBabbleSioBabble Member Posts: 2,803
    Originally posted by Rutilius


    Wasn't SWG released before WOW? They might have borrowed some things from WOW after the NGE...but to say the graphics are a rip-off considering they have not really changed since release.
     
     



     

    SWG was released nearly a year and a half before WoW.

    But within 6 months of that event, the UI was radically modified to be more like WoW's "cartoony" presentation.  To the point where the icon for "mount creature" was a cartoon horse.  A creature model that did not exist as a ridable creature in SWG.

    WoW's concept of "elite mobs" was shamlessly stolen (except you didn't get more XP for killing them) to the point where a poor imitation of the "silver dragon" around the creature's display icon was used.

    Then the NGE came along and radically transformed the UI yet again into a WoW clone with about 30% of the functionality.

    CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

    Once a denizen of Ahazi

  • SioBabbleSioBabble Member Posts: 2,803
    Originally posted by warmaster670

    Originally posted by SioBabble



    Meanwhile, over at Blizzard, they're working on revamping the entire old world for flight and updating zones (turning Desolace, for example, into a garden) for their next expansion.  The entire gameworld being substantially revamped.  Something the clowns at SOE are incapable of doing...it's in the "too hard" box, I guess.
     

     

    Ya your right they sure are clowns, imagine that, a game that has the most subs out of any mmo can afford to do stuff that a low tier sub game cant, its just madness!

     

    Its like complaining that a small town doesnt have a  $100million stadium like a big city does.

     

    Its sad that wow hasnt doen this SOONER, considering how much money they have.



     

    Erm, at one time the WoW devs said it was "impossible" to have flight in the old world.  Too much engine revision, too hard.

    Apparently, that's changed.  It's no longer "too hard".  At SWG "too hard" stays that way.

    Meanwhile, over at SWG, when you jump, you still have your legs moving as if you're walking in mid air.  And even though these assclowns KNOW why graphic presentation of characters running and combat being clunky happens, they do nothing to fix it, that is, undoing the 5x speedup of packet transit because that was the cheap and easy way to make combat "appear faster".

    CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

    Once a denizen of Ahazi

  • Coldrain_13Coldrain_13 Member Posts: 107

    What engine does SWG use btw? It might face implemention problems. Plus everything has to pass by LA as well so not everything is their fault. I finally cancelled my swg account for good. Mainly do to the RMT with TGC. We don't know what these devs can and can't do just because of the red tape LucasArts puts up. Did you know they had to re-do the Darth Vader scene in Night of the Museum(the force choke scene)about 15-20 times because LA said DV doesn't do it that or such. We may see some of this red tape come over to TOR, it's common knowledge LA is picky on it's SW franchise.

     

     

    *edit* Forgot to say I agree with your posts, the game movement/animations suck!

  • SioBabbleSioBabble Member Posts: 2,803
    Originally posted by Coldrain_13


    Did you know they had to re-do the Darth Vader scene in Night of the Museum(the force choke scene)about 15-20 times because LA said DV doesn't do it that or such.

    Admiral Ozzel and Captain Needa wish that were true, I'm sure.

    CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

    Once a denizen of Ahazi

  • VarnyVarny Member Posts: 765

    I heard EQ2 uses a modified version of the SWG Engine but I could be wrong, just a rumour that went around when EQ2 came out. They do suffer from some of the same graphical glitches though but that might just be down to common things that all games have a problem with like shadows.

  • liquescentliquescent Member CommonPosts: 145

    Sometime during the development EQ2 switched to there own engine.

  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907
    Originally posted by warmaster670 
    Ya your right they sure are clowns, imagine that, a game that has the most subs out of any mmo can afford to do stuff that a low tier sub game cant, its just madness!
     
    Its like complaining that a small town doesnt have a  $100million stadium like a big city does.
     
    Its sad that wow hasnt doen this SOONER, considering how much money they have.

     

    Not the same thing at all. STAR WARS is by FAR a helluva lot more marketable name than "WoW". I have yet to see one WoW spin off movie, TV series, Holiday Special, action figure, mount, toy sword, novel, comic books or any such thing like STAR WARS has.

    If ANYTHING...STAR WARS is the BIG CITY with a HUGE stadium...but a team that just sucks (like the Bears ;) )! 

    The only people Sony can blame for their failure to sell STAR WARS is themselves. Pink flying Ewoks, fairy wings, bat wings, "capes" and "zombies"....those things make Jar Jar seem "iconic". Not to even mention NGE and TCG...nah...your analogy is flawed mate.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Originally posted by TUX426

    Originally posted by warmaster670 
    Ya your right they sure are clowns, imagine that, a game that has the most subs out of any mmo can afford to do stuff that a low tier sub game cant, its just madness!
     
    Its like complaining that a small town doesnt have a  $100million stadium like a big city does.
     
    Its sad that wow hasnt doen this SOONER, considering how much money they have.

     

    Not the same thing at all. STAR WARS is by FAR a helluva lot more marketable name than "WoW". I have yet to see one WoW spin off movie, TV series, Holiday Special, action figure, mount, toy sword, novel, comic books or any such thing like STAR WARS has.

    If ANYTHING...STAR WARS is the BIG CITY with a HUGE stadium...but a team that just sucks (like the Bears ;) )! 

    The only people Sony can blame for their failure to sell STAR WARS is themselves. Pink flying Ewoks, fairy wings, bat wings, "capes" and "zombies"....those things make Jar Jar seem "iconic". Not to even mention NGE and TCG...nah...your analogy is flawed mate.

     

    What he said.

    SWG's biggest flaw is SOE.

     

     

  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907
    Originally posted by Burntvet 
    What he said.
    SWG's biggest flaw is SOE.
     
     

     

    Bah! I was hoping you meant I was right about the Bears sucking :P 

     

    Favre>Packers>Family>God ;)

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905
    Originally posted by Varny


     My month is nearly over and I've had some fun, but I wont be staying which is mainly down to presentation. The game feels very cheap a lot of the time and I can't feel special playing it because it just feels like a game desperately in need of a face lift. Graphically it is alright, considering what the game does but there are areas that let it down. Items in TCG I've noticed like new vehicles look amazing where as new dungeons they add into the game often look really bad. So heres a list of things that SOE need to work on for 2010...



    - UI.





    - Movement and controls.







    - Animations and Combat.


    - Graphics
     


    - Collision.


     

    Use Mods

    Load the "unguilded collection" and "ILM" mods. You will not regret it.

    I don't think anything is out to fix the collision. PM me if you can't find them.

  • VarnyVarny Member Posts: 765
    Originally posted by Torak

    Originally posted by Varny


     My month is nearly over and I've had some fun, but I wont be staying which is mainly down to presentation. The game feels very cheap a lot of the time and I can't feel special playing it because it just feels like a game desperately in need of a face lift. Graphically it is alright, considering what the game does but there are areas that let it down. Items in TCG I've noticed like new vehicles look amazing where as new dungeons they add into the game often look really bad. So heres a list of things that SOE need to work on for 2010...



    - UI.





    - Movement and controls.







    - Animations and Combat.


    - Graphics
     


    - Collision.


     

    Use Mods

    Load the "unguilded collection" and "ILM" mods. You will not regret it.

    I don't think anything is out to fix the collision. PM me if you can't find them.

     

    New players wont know how to use mods, I don't want to have to use mods and the ones that are out there have bugs and they just don't function like if the game was made for it. 

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by warmaster670

    Originally posted by SioBabble



    Meanwhile, over at Blizzard, they're working on revamping the entire old world for flight and updating zones (turning Desolace, for example, into a garden) for their next expansion.  The entire gameworld being substantially revamped.  Something the clowns at SOE are incapable of doing...it's in the "too hard" box, I guess.
     

     

    Ya your right they sure are clowns, imagine that, a game that has the most subs out of any mmo can afford to do stuff that a low tier sub game cant, its just madness!

     

    Its like complaining that a small town doesnt have a  $100million stadium like a big city does.

     

    Its sad that wow hasnt doen this SOONER, considering how much money they have.

    It is both funny and sad that one of the largest (if not the largest) and most powerful intellectual properties in the world is being downplayed as "low tier".

     

     

  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907
    Originally posted by Varny 
    New players wont know how to use mods, I don't want to have to use mods and the ones that are out there have bugs and they just don't function like if the game was made for it. 

     

    I agree with you Varny...but I had to chuckle at the "(mods) have bugs and they just don't function" part of your post. The irony being, the game Developers introduce more bugs than the mods ever could >.< Fortunately, the modders tend to fix their bugs ;)

  • stinneystinney Member Posts: 35

    Presentation is crappy but I fear its the least of the games worries.

    If you spend any more time there you will see.

     

    The problem with the game is, it started out in one direction and rather than commit to that direction 100% and make it right, They rested on their lourells and decided they didnt need to go that extra mile. They were coining it in already.

    Then WOW came along, they back tracked and tried to follow in their footsteps, but got lost.

    Concequently the game is in middle of nowhere. Appealing to no-one but the temporary curious or the diehard StarWars fan who plays it simply because its StarWars.

     

  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907
    Originally posted by stinney


    Presentation is crappy but I fear its the least of the games worries.
    If you spend any more time there you will see.
     
    The problem with the game is, it started out in one direction and rather than commit to that direction 100% and make it right, They rested on their lourells and decided they didnt need to go that extra mile. They were coining it in already.
    Then WOW came along, they back tracked and tried to follow in their footsteps, but got lost.
    Concequently the game is in middle of nowhere. Appealing to no-one but the temporary curious or the diehard StarWars fan who plays it simply because its StarWars.
     

     

    Whoa! Great post!!! Absolutely spot on!!!

  • amplimodamplimod Member Posts: 4

    _

  • LaterisLateris Member UncommonPosts: 1,765

     That DX 10- mod is actually pretty cool.  I logged into SWG last month and installed it. I wanted to see what has improved with the game since Dead Meat was replaced. I am glad to see that horror producer is gone. I was really bummed to see that terrible UI is still there. I preferred the old one they ripped off from Freelancer. So I Installed the mod to make the UI look like the pre NGE. I don't think that SWG is really going to do a face lift now that TOR is on the scene.  In fact they have ignored the complains on the UI- I am referring to where the action buttons are. The rest of the UI is fine. 

     

    Ya I don't like Lucas Arts as well but if I was SOE I would of stood my ground for honor and integrity. 

  • templarxtemplarx Member UncommonPosts: 181

    Just want to add my 2 cents, because the presentation [particularly INITIALLY] is what really turned me off.

    Some background:

    Over newyears Steam had a super special on all of SOE's games [EQ/EQ2/SWG/Vanguard/POTBS] . Needless to say i bought the full bundle for like $25 (each game obviously have 30 days playtime + all expansions).  I have not played any of these games before.

    So i started off with Everquest 2 , and i was impressed, seriously impressed. Brilliant music, voice overs , graphics are alot better than i expected , the world is huge [albeit somewhat instanced] and i can see myself playing this MMO past the free time. Animations looks good, jumping is snappy and combat is entertaining enough.

    Short story: I could see SOE [or someone] has been pouring energy/ideas/POLISH into EQ2 . It actually feels like a "finished" MMO.

    Then i figured lets download SWG so long [i bought it afterall] and check it out, because it's even older than EQ2 and if they remotely put the same amount effort into SWG as i saw in EQ2 it must be brilliant.

    Note: I do not know Pre-CU/NGE , so i don't care or know "what went missing" .

    Anyway, launched it up, entered the tutorial-space-station zone. First thing, RIGHT THERE, i could walk through all the desks/benches [no collision detection]. I immediately thought "wtf, this tutorial must be years old and they can't even polish/fix this?" .

    Next thing, i jumped. Oh my hell.....my character also seem to have a rather distracting [annoying] running animation and seems to be the exact same animation regardless of race or gender.....

    Anyhow, it's the same slow-motion type of jumping as in Fallen Earth, so i let it slide.

    I talk to some droid and pick up a gun and shoot at some crates, all the while there's C-3PO instructing from the side of the screen what to do, problem is, he is totally out of sync and does not notice i've already blew up the crates and heading out...

    So i got out of there, greeted by Han Solo and run down more corridors into a launch bay...more horrible collision detection there, hiding behind boxes and clipping right through them. At the same time Solo keeps looping telling me to "hide behind the boxes to avoid fire" , yet it's the very same boxes i can walk through and looks like enemies have no problem shooting right through them either...

    I get onto the ship and suddenly i'm standing in the middle of black space [emptyness] and i can see planets and stars..wtf? I start turning and zooming in and out, and suddenly the clipping corrects itself and i'm inside the actual ship again.....turns out if i stand too close to a certain wall and have my view angle a certain way i clip right through the wall.

    After that i got into what i guess is the "newbie zone" [first 5 levels] which is another space station, grey corridors, lifts, typical cantina...bland. I get sent on some fetch missions, one of which is to another space station with brown corridors this time, but pretty much sticking to the corridor-spacestation theme.

    10th thing that struck me in this newbie zone : Where is the MUSIC? Did i miss a soundtrack ? All i could hear is the cantina playing some jazz  when i run in there, rest of the time it's just alot lifts and metallic footstep sounds. EQ2 throws this epic music at you, almost overwhelming, but it does the trick..now in SWG...nothing? Am i missing a setting? It is the -intro- to the game, seriously i'd expect some epic music here, you can let it disappear later in the game, but when i start the game i kinda expect these things...

    So i'm about there in the game, about to leave the station.

    Now i ask you this: What kind of first impression is this? This is horrible. I've not even seen a planet or a city or sky yet, but i've seen bad collision,bad animations,clipping bugs and various other little bugs prevalent in a BETA MMO. I'm not even talking about the rather finnicky over-the-shoulder combat style and having to constantly switch between a "target mode" and a "interaction-release-the-bloody-mouse"-mode [Fallen Earth have the same thing, so i guess i shouldn't complain too much].

    Again, keep in mind, i come straight from playing EQ2 for a week also, so you can't blame this on being an old game.

    In short: Yes, SWG problem is PRESENTATION, it's very bad.

    It's clear to me, that SOE must have abandoned SWG in favor of EQ2. I can't believe the same company handles both games, THAT's how much difference i noticed. SWG is not polished, and unacceptably buggy for a 6 year old game.

    Obviously i'm giving this the full free month because i am aware there are alot more than the initial game presents. If i didn't know better [from all the reviews/fanboys] i would've thrown the game in the bin long before leaving that tutorial station.

    Seriously, SOE, polish the game geez, it's shameful looking at EQ2 and then this....SHAMEFUL.

     

    I can assume there's different teams involved on the two games, it's like the SWG team is just doing broad strokes [with a brush] and the EQ2 has artists perfecting all the little details.....so if i can blame anyone i wouldn't just blame SOE as a whole, but more specific the SWG team [if there is even one left]

     

     

    EDIT: i'm leaving out the parts where i felt the character selection screen is equally horrible with the "cut outs" of the real star wars characters...it looks cheap and does not  even fit with my perception of a certain class [Princess Leia <--> Officer class] almost like they just wanted to make sure all the big SW chars get their little "thumbnail" in the game.

     

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