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Immersive worlds.

In so many MMORPG games, the forests aren't exactly forests. You can clearly see the exits, trees are so distant, etc.

So why don't devs actually make more immersive worlds? A really dark forest, where witches, demons and other "evil creatures" would lurk would be great. And when I'm talking about a forest, I'm talking about an actual forest, not just 1 tree every 20m.

Or a huge jungle, where you get attacked by serpents and other specific creatures. Sometimes, plant creatures would jump out and lush and you.

When you'd turn the camera up, you can see the imensity of the forest. When you turn the camera around, you only see the jungle...and you'll have to make a way through it.

There's a huge difference when you can see the village from a supposed "forest" and when you are in an actual forest, where you look so insignificant and where you can get lost at times.

What do you think of this? Would be a good feature in a solid MMO to have more realistic zones?

Comments

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,946
    Originally posted by Thenarius


    In so many MMORPG games, the forests aren't exactly forests. You can clearly see the exits, trees are so distant, etc.

    So why don't devs actually make more immersive worlds? A really dark forest, where witches, demons and other "evil creatures" would lurk would be great. And when I'm talking about a forest, I'm talking about an actual forest, not just 1 tree every 20m.

    Or a huge jungle, where you get attacked by serpents and other specific creatures. Sometimes, plant creatures would jump out and lush and you.

    When you'd turn the camera up, you can see the imensity of the forest. When you turn the camera around, you only see the jungle...and you'll have to make a way through it.

    There's a huge difference when you can see the village from a supposed "forest" and when you are in an actual forest, where you look so insignificant and where you can get lost at times.

    What do you think of this? Would be a good feature in a solid MMO to have more realistic zones?



     

    I would agree. I have to say that the forests in Vanguard and to a certain extenet Lord of the Rings, are very good.

    However, as far as the danger and scariness and essentially the ability to get lost (all of which I am for) players don't seem to be interested.

    The original Old Forest in LOTRO was actually dangerous and scary and they made the developer who created it make it easier because people were complaining.

    sad that.

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  • VarnyVarny Member Posts: 765

     Lotro looks like it has the most natural world, just a shame the character models put me off playing.

    I really like WoW's world in zones like Duskwood and Elwynn Forest. 

    SWG has some big forests but the worlds have nothing in them because SOE forgot the content.

     

     

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Ironically (and yes I know it's top down) UO was very good at this. Running through a forest meant there were tons of trees. Running through a jungle was a nightmare with so many obstacles of undergrowth, and nasty critters lurking everywhere.

  • MidareMidare Member Posts: 46

    I agree, although... unlike in real forests where I am really good at finding my way around... I would get lost in Strangletorn in WoW because all the trees looked the same to me. I think large wilderness zones are useful in an MMORPG, when they're done right. LOL Unfortunately, "done right" means different things depending on the wilderness one is making. Jungles are different from Deciduous forests, which are different from Coniferous forests. I mean, if a game had a deciduous forest I'd want it to incorporate a seasonal system so the leaves cycled through annually.

     

    Coniferous forests would lack the underbrush that deciduous or tropical forests seem to have... and instead would have mosses or ferns underfoot. You can see for miles in that sort of forest, at least in those with trees that do not have branches right down to the ground. I didn't find WoW's take on the wild spaces too bad, actually. I just disliked that they had static seasons.

  • WarjinWarjin Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Originally posted by Thenarius


    In so many MMORPG games, the forests aren't exactly forests. You can clearly see the exits, trees are so distant, etc.

    So why don't devs actually make more immersive worlds? A really dark forest, where witches, demons and other "evil creatures" would lurk would be great. And when I'm talking about a forest, I'm talking about an actual forest, not just 1 tree every 20m.

    Or a huge jungle, where you get attacked by serpents and other specific creatures. Sometimes, plant creatures would jump out and lush and you.

    When you'd turn the camera up, you can see the imensity of the forest. When you turn the camera around, you only see the jungle...and you'll have to make a way through it.

    There's a huge difference when you can see the village from a supposed "forest" and when you are in an actual forest, where you look so insignificant and where you can get lost at times.

    What do you think of this? Would be a good feature in a solid MMO to have more realistic zones?

    Someday we will get our World, A world with Real life GFX's 100's tarabited full of content and Polish that will rival life like movements.

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  • afoaaafoaa Member UncommonPosts: 578

    In my opinion the game that has by far made the most believeable enviroment is Oblivion. Every step you take in that game you can look around you and say: "yes this looks like a real place".

    Its all a question of skill of the graphic designers. Do they really understand what makes things the way they are or do they just put in stuff they think are right?

    Lotro has some nice spots too and with Myrkwood opening these days it will be interesting to see how well they have made a dark forrest.

    Btw if you want realism in the enviroment then take a look at Fallen Earth. They took an 88 x 88 km area of the real world and imported the topographic data into the game, so its "real" places you move around in, in that game and its fun to go to google earth and look at the places you run around in, in the game.

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  • SandbloxSandblox Member UncommonPosts: 180

    The best current MMO I can think of that offers what your talking about would be Darkfall. It has a MASSIVE world and uses first person and limited 3rd person view.

    I understand where you are coming from, most MMOs my character feels larger the the world, in Darkfall the world feels larger then me. I dunno if you played EQ but pre POP they also had some good use of forests and so on, forest on Kunark, forget name, but was easy to get lost in the trees there and not know where to turn.

    Darkfall does not have a zillion POI, determined paths, painted backrounds or any of that so I think would be your best bet for a modern MMO.

  • GPrestigeGPrestige Member UncommonPosts: 523
    Originally posted by Varny


     Lotro looks like it has the most natural world, just a shame the character models put me off playing.
    I really like WoW's world in zones like Duskwood and Elwynn Forest. 
    SWG has some big forests but the worlds have nothing in them because SOE forgot the content.
     
     

     

    Sorry, but you complain about Lotro's character models, and then explain how you love WoW zones with no mention of their character models? Seems people just accept how craptastic WoW is, eh?

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,946
    Originally posted by GPrestige

    Originally posted by Varny


     Lotro looks like it has the most natural world, just a shame the character models put me off playing.
    I really like WoW's world in zones like Duskwood and Elwynn Forest. 
    SWG has some big forests but the worlds have nothing in them because SOE forgot the content.
     
     

     

    Sorry, but you complain about Lotro's character models, and then explain how you love WoW zones with no mention of their character models? Seems people just accept how craptastic WoW is, eh?



     

    I think regardless of what one thinks of WoW's character models (not really my taste) they actually fit in very well with WoW's world. They seem to be a part of it.

    But for my taste the avatars in LOTRO seem somewhat incongrous with the world Turbine created.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


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    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • MithiosMithios Member Posts: 271

    This may be a bad comparrison, but I remember being scrared out of my wits running through the forests in EQ. They were not partucularly lush and thriving with plant life, but at night some of them became very unsettling, particularly the undead forrests. One second you're running along, damn well knowing something is going to get you and then suddenly BAM, a necro or skeleton "appears" and smacks you for 30% of your life.  You never knew for certain what was around the the next bend or tree.

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  • mindw0rkmindw0rk Member UncommonPosts: 1,356

     For me Vanguard has the most immersive world, following LoTRO

  • LansidLansid Member UncommonPosts: 1,097

     I really really hate to admit... but I feel mini maps remove a bit from immersion. Don't get me wrong, nowadays I love maps and the helpful GUI stuff. However after a while I've found myself with my nose in the GPS than I have actually looking at the screen. Without a MM you are more inclined to observe and be aware of your surroundings more, landmarks... slightly bent tree near the fork in the road, kind of stuff.

    As far as scary forests... Kithicor Forest, in EQ classic days. That's exactly what you are describing.

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  • ChealarChealar Member Posts: 268

    I think the above post puts the finger on the crux of the matter: GUI/usability vs. immersion.

    Most players coming to MMOs nowadays are "newbies" to games in general and MMOs in particular, So they need some thing easy to figure out, step-by-step tutorials, and every help getting the game in hand, or they'll jsut leave while accusing this of being an "elitist" game.

    Even more advanced players are used to understanding the commands pretty quickly... Heck, even in the days of Super Nintendo, Megadrive and what not, when game were supposed more tricky and with more complex gameplays, you could almost always just charge in without reading the manual and while skipping the tutorial and you still got the hang of the controls in 10 minutes tops.

    If you remove a lot of things that helps you control you char, you may get a more immersive world, in which you will get lost... But will you ever be able to get out of the forest?

    image

  • EbonyflyEbonyfly Member Posts: 255

    Some of the forests and trees in DaoC felt very alive. Particularly when they started attacking you!

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Lansid


     I really really hate to admit... but I feel mini maps remove a bit from immersion. Don't get me wrong, nowadays I love maps and the helpful GUI stuff. However after a while I've found myself with my nose in the GPS than I have actually looking at the screen. Without a MM you are more inclined to observe and be aware of your surroundings more, landmarks... slightly bent tree near the fork in the road, kind of stuff.
    As far as scary forests... Kithicor Forest, in EQ classic days. That's exactly what you are describing.

     

    The problem is that immersion for too long is BORING. Take path finding. It is fun the first time I have to navigate a certain forest to get to the cave.

    However, after a while, this gets old and players want to jump to the fun part .. killing the mobs. Thus, mini-map is born. In fact, I think the trend is towards making it even LESS painless. In the next patch, the WOW client is going to incorporate many of the quest helper functionalities.

    Blizzard is doing it obviously because something like quest helper is extremely popular. In fact, i don't even know a player who don't use it except those who are not aware.

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