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nVidia GeForce "310" re-released...

noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170

The first graphics card, GeForce 310, from what you would assume is their next generation chips was released..

http://xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20091126111148_Nvidia_Quietly_Unveils_GeForce_310_GeForce_205_Graphics_Cards.html

GeForce 210 product page
GeForce 310 product page


Unfortunately, the GeForce 310 is a renamed GeForce 210.. so why is nVidia doing this? The GeForce 210 was just released last month and now it's already renamed to the GeForce 310..?


Anyone with any knowledge isn't going to buy that low end of a card anyway, so are they trying to trick people buying Dell/HP/Gateway oem PC's into thinking the 310 is an up to date graphics card with DX11 like the rest of the 300 line is going to have? This is worse than the 8800GTS -> 9800GTX+ -> GTS250, at least no features changed in those "generations" so it's not like you were expecting a feature that wasn't there.


Or are they trying to make people think Fermi is closer than it is, as it still looks to be at least March before the real GTX300 series is released?


I understand the card is missing all the letters that make it good, specifically "G", "T", and sometimes "X". But still, slapping a 310 on there for no reason is misleading and a bit underhanded..

Comments

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362

    Typical behavior for nvidia. Cheat and mislead consumers while taking their cash. Personally I boycott nvidia for its doings lately, rebranding, physx... you name it.

  • coffeecoffee Member Posts: 2,007

    I prefer NVidia over ATI so im sticking with Nvidia but they do have a very odd and misleading naming policy on their cards and they know it as well, all these GTX, GTS,GT... 8800gtx slower than a 280gtx? makes no sence naming wise.  I do research before purchasing but others wont and will get shafted.

     

     

    image

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170

    I used to be nVidia only but I still tried out ATI cards every once in a while and always ended up disappointed until my Radeon 3850, now I find both brands to be pretty damn solid so I go with whatever is the better deal.


    I can understand the renaming nVidia's done in the past. They had 9800GTX+ chips to sell that were still quite viable and a step down from the GTX260 so they renamed it the GTS250 so they could fill out their 200 series and get people to buy it rather then avoid it for being the last generation, and while it's a bit silly it doesn't bother me because nothing changed from 8-9-200 anyway.


    This 310 business is just nonsense though.

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,264

    I think its rather deceptive marketing similiar to the 8800GTX, 9800GT, and GTS250.  Similar to using the m designation by rebranding a weaker card.  Its mainly deceptive in the case of the GTS250 because you expect them to make mid range cards have the muscle of last gens top range, but with lower thermal and power envelopes.  The GTS 250 was literally the last generations card with the same thermal and power envelopes.

    Calling something the 310 has the possibility of being confused that it has full DX11 capabilities.  Similar to saying something is DX10.1 but lacks DX10.1 features like the 210 did.

    However, shouldn't really care that much since its not like its going to be used for anything other then playing videos.  Its the lowest of the low range, even IGP from nVidia and AMD outpaces the card.  Other companies also do the same like Intel using the Core 2 naming convention for Pentium based processors.

  • sage69sage69 Member Posts: 40

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362

    Obvious troll is obvious. 

  • smutsmut Member Posts: 250

    I don't give a crap what company is selling the card when I upgrade my graphics card. Whoever has the best bang for the buck will get my purchase. ATI or nVidia...doesn't matter. I never understood why people are a fanboy of 1 graphics card company. The more companies, the better for the consumer. So I hope they both continue to do well as we win in the end.

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977

    I used to buy Nvidia as they provided the best GPUs (in my opinion) that were just easy to install and ran without any tweaking, also the naming scheme was easy for me to understand (yeah I'm not that smart). Then they released their 9000 series and things started going pear shaped. I was all stoked and waiting to look to see what kind of improvements they had made on the already awesome, all conquering 8800. I find out the 9000 series was the 8000 series rebranded! WTF? Is someone taking the piss?

    Then it just started getting wierd, the 250 is a re branded 9800 which is a rebranded 8800? Someone at Nvidia needed to put down the pipe man! Over the last couple of years Nvidia (in my opinion) have concentrated on making the best performing most bleeding edge card they can. Usually having 3 cards very similar that held the top spots, with ATI creeping behind with the 4870x2. This is done for bragging rights and marketing purposes then they release a plethora of rebranded dog shit to sell to everyone that can't afford a £600 GPU!

    Now ATI have released the 5000 series, they've gone for Nvidias jugular. The 5970 has taken the crown of bleeding edge fastest GPU and the single cards leave Nvidia either eating dust or out dated. It will be just a matter of time before Nvidia go for that top spot again and sell us a GPU you need to re morgatge the house to buy and then sell the rest of us the same old rebranded crap but no doubt add DX 11 in there.

    Until Nvidia raise the bar and release some decent dx11 cards that are affordable and perform well against the ATI cards in the same cost braket there's no reason for most to purchase them. All Nvidia have left is some cheesy marketing tactics using smoke and mirrors to get you to buy rebranded dog shit and bribing games studios to make the games run better on their crap technology.

    Sorry if you're an Nvidia fanbois right now but I have a DX11 card for my windows 7 and up coming games this year, with GDDR 5 that uses very little power and is as quiet as a mouse. Performs about the same as a GTX 260 but costs £20 less, I guess Nvidia still have Phsyx!

    Yes I'm an AMD/ATI fanbois ... bite me!

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • Einherjar_LCEinherjar_LC Member UncommonPosts: 1,055

    Not a surprise.

     

    IMO Nvidia hasn't made a decent card since the 7800GTX.

     

    I have one in a box that consistently outperforms, and outlasts(yes i said outlasts) newer cards.  I just replaced a 9800 that couldn't hold a candle to the 7800.  The 8800 is the only one that came close.

     

    I will admit the newer top-o-the-line Nvidia cards out now will edge out my 7800, but in similarly built systems the 7800 hangs respectably for a 6 year old card when compared to a new $600+ card.

    Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!

  • SkuzSkuz Member UncommonPosts: 1,017

    Nvidias best "bang for the buck" was the 8800 series, ATI beat them hands down with the 4870, unless you need a ridiculously large display these uber-cards wont deliver significantly faster frame rates over a 4870 anyway.

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362

    8800 GTX was the last good nvidia card. Owned 9k series totally and wasn't much slower than g200s.

  • smutsmut Member Posts: 250
    Originally posted by Skuz


    Nvidias best "bang for the buck" was the 8800 series, ATI beat them hands down with the 4870, unless you need a ridiculously large display these uber-cards wont deliver significantly faster frame rates over a 4870 anyway.



     

    Yeah the 8800GT cards were amazing bang for the buck and they sold like hotcakes hence why nVidia kept rebranding the 8800gt. It is still a good card if you are running 1440x900 resolution or lower. I still have 1 one in my server box.

    The ATI 58xx series is on the effin' money right now so I'd recommend one of them for anyone looking to upgrade right now. For anyone who wants to wait a few months, you can hold out till nVidia announces it's next gaming card. Either it will beat the 58xx series or it will match it which will start a price war, win win for us.

  • lakokalakoka Member UncommonPosts: 97
    Originally posted by sage69





     

    Dont mislead people, 5970 is a Dual GPU card, means it has 2 full PCB on it.

    NVidia sucks really for the renaming, but they cards are enough good.

    Don't be so happy for DX11 either, its not going to be overused, DX10 isnt even.

    Ati did a gret job with 5000's. But like always, NVidia will answer the call, and ATi, and Nvidia. Supposed to. ATI didnt do it for 8000's.

  • sage69sage69 Member Posts: 40
    Originally posted by lakoka

    Originally posted by sage69





     

    Dont mislead people, 5970 is a Dual GPU card, means it has 2 full PCB on it.

    NVidia sucks really for the renaming, but they cards are enough good.

    Don't be so happy for DX11 either, its not going to be overused, DX10 isnt even.

    Ati did a gret job with 5000's. But like always, NVidia will answer the call, and ATi, and Nvidia. Supposed to. ATI didnt do it for 8000's.

    so is the gtx 295. and by pcb i hope you mean GPU.

  • sage69sage69 Member Posts: 40

    honestly nvidia is dead in the water. their inability to mass produce 40nm chips has killed them. sure eventually they will produce 40nm fermi in 2nd quarter next year but AMD/ATI will be making 6xxx series featuring 32nm in 4th quarter along with 5990x2 cards.

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170


    Originally posted by sage69

    Originally posted by lakoka

     
    Dont mislead people, 5970 is a Dual GPU card, means it has 2 full PCB on it.
    NVidia sucks really for the renaming, but they cards are enough good.
    Don't be so happy for DX11 either, its not going to be overused, DX10 isnt even.
    Ati did a gret job with 5000's. But like always, NVidia will answer the call, and ATi, and Nvidia. Supposed to. ATI didnt do it for 8000's.


    so is the gtx 295. and by pcb i hope you mean GPU.

    Yea the original GTX295 actually is a dual PCB card:
    image

    But all the other dual cards are dual GPU (2 GPU's on 1 board). Not that it makes much difference, and I would prefer the GTX275x2 and Radeon 5870x2 moniker but I can see why ATI went with '5970' to compete with the 'GTX295' obfuscation - plus from an uneducated consumers' point of view '5970' and '295' communicate the performance level over the rest of the line.


    DX11 should see more use than DX10, DX10 was basically stripped down to DX9 functionality with better memory management because NVidia refused to redesign their hardware to support the new features MS wanted. All those features are now part of DX11, plus DX11 is backward compatible so no reason not to write for it. Only thing holding it back of course is the target console market.

  • smutsmut Member Posts: 250
    Originally posted by sage69


    honestly nvidia is dead in the water. their inability to mass produce 40nm chips has killed them. sure eventually they will produce 40nm fermi in 2nd quarter next year but AMD/ATI will be making 6xxx series featuring 32nm in 4th quarter along with 5990x2 cards.

     

    You are wrong. Nvidia doesn't produce them, TSMC does. They also produce ATI's chips. You must have missed the news lately that TSMC is having problems making 40nm chips hence why the new ATI cards are in limited supply. This is simply fact.

    www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170


    Originally posted by smut

    Originally posted by sage69

    honestly nvidia is dead in the water. their inability to mass produce 40nm chips has killed them. sure eventually they will produce 40nm fermi in 2nd quarter next year but AMD/ATI will be making 6xxx series featuring 32nm in 4th quarter along with 5990x2 cards.


     
    You are wrong. Nvidia doesn't produce them, TSMC does. They also produce ATI's chips. You must have missed the news lately that TSMC is having problems making 40nm chips hence why the new ATI cards are in limited supply. This is simply fact.
    www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml

    Yea this is true, TSMC is dropping the ball. But the GPU companies design their hardware for each semiconductor plant's production techniques, in other words you would need a separate revision of a chip to be produced at GlobalFoundries than TSMC so generally companies just do certain chips at TSMC and different chips at GlobalFoundries rather than have 2 revisions of the same chip.


    Point is, the GPU company first has to design something that works for TSMC's process, this is where NVidia is having problems, then TSMC has to do adjustments to get yields up - this is where ATI is having problems.

  • sage69sage69 Member Posts: 40
    Originally posted by smut

    Originally posted by sage69


    honestly nvidia is dead in the water. their inability to mass produce 40nm chips has killed them. sure eventually they will produce 40nm fermi in 2nd quarter next year but AMD/ATI will be making 6xxx series featuring 32nm in 4th quarter along with 5990x2 cards.

     

    You are wrong. Nvidia doesn't produce them, TSMC does. They also produce ATI's chips. You must have missed the news lately that TSMC is having problems making 40nm chips hence why the new ATI cards are in limited supply. This is simply fact.

    www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml

    ATI has a 50% success rate at 40nm and nvidia had a 1.7% success rate.

     unfortunately for nvidia the future is integrated cpgpus and that leaves them out. why? they need a x86 license and intel isnt likely to provide it due to the SLI fight they are in. this is why the netbook nvidia made uses ARM architecture. and windows doesnt run on ARM.

    and the reason ATI cards are in short supply is also partially due to the fact that both dell and apple have dropped nvidia and picked up nearly all the first few batches of 5xxx series for their machines.

     

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by coffee


    I prefer NVidia over ATI so im sticking with Nvidia but they do have a very odd and misleading naming policy on their cards and they know it as well, all these GTX, GTS,GT... 8800gtx slower than a 280gtx? makes no sence naming wise.  I do research before purchasing but others wont and will get shafted.

     

    I agree. I don't give a rats @ss about the name of a GFX card, I do my research and buy the best. Currently am I using a 295 GTX, it was the best when I bought it.

     

    If ATI delivers better I buy it, but I don't like their drivers. They make great cards but could get a lot more out of them if they focused a bit more on the drivers, that has always been the thing Nvidia does best.

    If anyone buys a low budget card for no cash they have themselves to blame. 210, 310 or whatever. ATI, or Nvidia  doesn't matter, never buy the cheap junk, GFX money is the wrong thing to save money on, it is the most important component for a gamer.

  • 133794m3r133794m3r Member Posts: 173

    Plain and simple, Nvidia's failing in the notebook cards. And the ati will rule the mobile computers whilst nvidia ruels the desktop land. Oh well is all i can really say. Nvidia's falling down in laptops whilst ati's making ground breaking movements forward.

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
    Originally posted by 133794m3r


    Plain and simple, Nvidia's failing in the notebook cards. And the ati will rule the mobile computers whilst nvidia ruels the desktop land. Oh well is all i can really say. Nvidia's falling down in laptops whilst ati's making ground breaking movements forward.



     

    nVidia has fallen down on all fronts, not just laptops. Their cards are over priced and inferior with out dated technology, they spend their time trying to down play the significance of DX 11. They need to get back into gear and produce something to rival ATI's 5000 series, which I'm sure they will. I can't help thinking to myself that if they'd spent more on R&D rather than bribing software makers and pissing off manufacturers they'd be in a much better position today, I guess you reap what you sew!

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • 133794m3r133794m3r Member Posts: 173

    well i was simply going from how i saw it at the moment. And since larrabee isn't coming out this year that doesn't help either. I was hoping with the introduction of that card it'd cause them to get their ass in gear. Well you remember direct x 10.1 right? Well nvidia played off developers to not use it in their games and htat worked. So who knows they may do the same with dx 11.

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
    Originally posted by 133794m3r


    well i was simply going from how i saw it at the moment. And since larrabee isn't coming out this year that doesn't help either. I was hoping with the introduction of that card it'd cause them to get their ass in gear. Well you remember direct x 10.1 right? Well nvidia played off developers to not use it in their games and htat worked. So who knows they may do the same with dx 11.



     

    Possible, it depends how popular the ATI cards become and how much of a difference DX 11 makes to the average gamer. However when nVidia were getting software companys to make games to run on their cards nVidia were the best selling cards. With manufacturers going to ATI now and the advent of ATI cards taking the lead in price and performance especially come Christmas time, I feel nVidia have lost alot of influence that they once had before.

    nVidia had somewhat of on Iron grip on the market this time last year, now all they have is phsyx. Pretty sad and sorry state of affairs in my opinion and the best they can do is re release rebranded 8800's, they need to up their game and quickly. I don't think they have the influence anymore over developers and manufacturers, now they're just gonna have to play fair in a game of survival of the fittest with ATI, and from where I'm standing they suck at it right now.

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

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