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Is PVP needed?

raystantzraystantz Final Fantasy XI CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,237

 Do you believe that PVP is something that is absolutely needed in an MMO? Do you play games without PVP?

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Currently playing:

FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA. 

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Comments

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297

    Depending on your definition of PvP, no I dont think it's required. That's like asking if sports can be non-contact.

    For my own part, the whole point of playing multiplayer games is to be able to interact with other players. And against them.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    I play PvE only MMO's. I'm there for the co-op aspect, not the gankfest aspect.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Member Posts: 3,138
    Originally posted by Malcanis


    Depending on your definition of PvP, no I dont think it's required. That's like asking if sports can be non-contact.
    For my own part, the whole point of playing multiplayer games is to be able to interact with other players. And against them.

     

    Tennis. Golf. Cricket.

     

    @ OP

    It's certainly an added benefit to a game as long as it's an opt in mechanic. People pay for what makes them happy and if you force them into something they won't pay. I say this assuming you mean needed as in trying to make a game to make the most money you can. If money isn't your worry (hah, yeah, find a developer today who isn't focused on that...I can count 1) and your vision is, then it depends on your vision.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • TheHatterTheHatter Member Posts: 2,547

    For me? Yes.

    For a game to be good? No.

     

    I enjoy PVP and want it in the game. But, they can't slack on the PVE either.

    What's really most important about PVP to me, isn't the PVP itself, but the reason for it. Give me a reason to stay alive, give me a GOOD reason to fight, and give me a reason to make my heart pump. All 3 are absolutely essential in PVP, otherwise it's just a minigame.

  • ZoulzZoulz Member Posts: 477

     As I always say, if I want to compete against other players i'll play something like team fortress 2 or left 4 dead versus mode. They do PvP so much better than any MMO i've ever played.

  • luckturtzluckturtz Member Posts: 422

    PvP is the easiest random self creating content that can be put in mmo.You put good system where you have resources and land to gain and you need skilled non combat crafters and gathers to build housing and craft items,reasonable balanced classes and rich lore.You have a game players could play for years without a dev adding one piece of content.

     

     

     

     

  • TheHatterTheHatter Member Posts: 2,547
    Originally posted by luckturtz


    PvP is the easiest random self creating content that can be put in mmo.You put good system where you have resources and land to gain and you need skilled non combat crafters and gathers to build housing and craft items,reasonable balance class and rich lore.You have a game players could play for years without a dev adding one piece of content.

     

    QFMT, this has to be the best statement I've ever seen about PVP and why I like it so much.

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by Zoulz


     As I always say, if I want to compete against other players i'll play something like team fortress 2 or left 4 dead versus mode. They do PvP so much better than any MMO i've ever played.

    While those are FPS, how would I get the same game play that I would find in WoW? Thanks to borderlands I can now say the same thing to those like you, 'if I wanted to group and/or get loot with other players I would just go play borderlands'.

     

  • talismen351talismen351 Member Posts: 1,124

    I would rather see the two genres seperated. PvE games are made and PvP thrown in as an afterthought. Then skills, classes must be nerfed to balance them more for PvP. Perhaps seeing PvE only games, devs could concentrate more on the PvE content. The same goes with PvP, devs could work more on the balance and PvP content, events. And in the end, players on both sides could be happy. Each choosing the playstyle/game that keeps them happy.

    image

  • AthcearAthcear Member Posts: 420
    Originally posted by talismen351


    I would rather see the two genres seperated. PvE games are made and PvP thrown in as an afterthought. Then skills, classes must be nerfed to balance them more for PvP. Perhaps seeing PvE only games, devs could concentrate more on the PvE content. The same goes with PvP, devs could work more on the balance and PvP content, events. And in the end, players on both sides could be happy. Each choosing the playstyle/game that keeps them happy.

     

    Yes.  Trying to do too much is something that ruins a lot of new MMOs.

    Important facts:
    1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
    2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
    3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
    4. Community is more important than you think.

  • GoronianGoronian Member Posts: 724

    I, by nature, is not really a competetive man. Even with that, I much prefer one-on-one battles, where numbers don't play a role (pobably why I like fighting games).

    With that said, dynamic worlds "feel" much better with PvP, giving the game an impresion of life. PvP should available, but panished (karma systems, for example), thus creating a better atmosphere.

    Sadly, we don't have "worlds" in MMOs, aside from UO and EvE, I believe. Darkfall doesn't count, since PvP is unrestricted.

    I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
    image

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by talismen351


    I would rather see the two genres seperated. PvE games are made and PvP thrown in as an afterthought. Then skills, classes must be nerfed to balance them more for PvP. Perhaps seeing PvE only games, devs could concentrate more on the PvE content. The same goes with PvP, devs could work more on the balance and PvP content, events. And in the end, players on both sides could be happy. Each choosing the playstyle/game that keeps them happy.

     

    The last PvP MMO I played fell flat. Can you guess which one that was?

    MMOs should have both. This gives people something to do when bored. I like PvE I couldn't see myself paying to play it very long I would eventually get bored. Same can be said for a PvP game.

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by Goronian


    I, by nature, is not really a competetive man. Even with that, I much prefer one-on-one battles, where numbers don't play a role (pobably why I like fighting games).

     

    I prefer one on one to. But class balance almost always ruins it.

  • StevieHmselfStevieHmself Member Posts: 134
    Originally posted by talismen351


    I would rather see the two genres seperated. PvE games are made and PvP thrown in as an afterthought. Then skills, classes must be nerfed to balance them more for PvP. Perhaps seeing PvE only games, devs could concentrate more on the PvE content. The same goes with PvP, devs could work more on the balance and PvP content, events. And in the end, players on both sides could be happy. Each choosing the playstyle/game that keeps them happy.

    IDK i mean some games need the PVE and PVP together to be fun, take EVE for example, who is going to want to go out and pirate if there are no miners or mission runners around? i will never play an online game that has no PVP, just dont see the point, PVP ads so much more fun, Especially if the PvP has meaning (Battles over land, EVE, Darkfall) or if the pvp is very competitive, (WoW arena). and to answer OP's quesiton, no if a game had no pvp i would not play, PVP is a must. 

     

    Playing EVE
    Played Darkfall, Played Wow,

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by greed0104


     
    MMOs should have both. This gives people something to do when bored. I like PvE I couldn't see myself paying to play it very long I would eventually get bored. Same can be said for a PvP game.

    I played a PvE only MMO for 6 years... but you can't really make PvE interesting enough when you have to focus PvP as well. When you ditch one or the other, the reminaing feature becomes interesting enough to keep you playing for as long as the devs keep pumping out good content.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by greed0104


     
    MMOs should have both. This gives people something to do when bored. I like PvE I couldn't see myself paying to play it very long I would eventually get bored. Same can be said for a PvP game.

    I played a PvE only MMO for 6 years... but you can't really make PvE interesting enough when you have to focus PvP as well. When you ditch one or the other, the reminaing feature becomes interesting enough to keep you playing for as long as the devs keep pumping out good content.

     

    I'm not saying some people wont enjoy this, LOTRO is proof of that. I'll admit I was being kinda biased. I get bored of doing the same scripted fight every week sometimes and like to have something more random to enounter, like a player.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    LOTRO isn't a very good example, imo.. I got bored of it very fast. They didn't really implement PvE well enough to excuse the lack of PvP.

    Anyway, fights don't need be scripted. The monsters need better AI, and events need more random, unpredictable factors- that'll make things interesting for long time.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • GoronianGoronian Member Posts: 724
    Originally posted by greed0104

    Originally posted by Goronian


    I, by nature, is not really a competetive man. Even with that, I much prefer one-on-one battles, where numbers don't play a role (pobably why I like fighting games).

     

    I prefer one on one to. But class balance almost always ruins it.

    Because it works on the old rock-paper-scissors mechanic. I'm not much of a fighting games geek, but maybe MMO classes could learn from them? In Virtua Fighter, I believe,every character can beat every other character, given the right set of hands.

    I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
    image

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by Hyanmen


    Anyway, fights don't need be scripted. The monsters need better AI, and events need more random, unpredictable factors- that'll make things interesting for long time.

     

    I agree, this would definatlly make PvE more enjoyable to me. However I would still like that competition of player versus player, I'm not collection loot to look good in it or to only progress in PvE. All prefrence, I PvE to PvP basically. But I'm certainly not out to change MMOs, if one was to go for all PvE I would not object, I know people are into that sort of thing.

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by Goronian


     given the right set of hands.

     

    IMO that's the best tool you should need.

  • ZoulzZoulz Member Posts: 477
    Originally posted by greed0104

    Originally posted by Zoulz


     As I always say, if I want to compete against other players i'll play something like team fortress 2 or left 4 dead versus mode. They do PvP so much better than any MMO i've ever played.

    While those are FPS, how would I get the same game play that I would find in WoW? Thanks to borderlands I can now say the same thing to those like you, 'if I wanted to group and/or get loot with other players I would just go play borderlands'.

     

    To me, genre don't really matter. If I want a good pvp experience i'd rather play one of those games I mentioned. For me, MMOs are about improving my avatar, exploring, doing content and socializing with my guild. But that is just me.

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by Zoulz


    To me, genre don't really matter. If I want a good pvp experience i'd rather play one of those games I mentioned. For me, MMOs are about improving my avatar, exploring, doing content and socializing with my guild. But that is just me.

    I understand. I'm about the same, part of the exploring for me though is the feel of paranoia that you can be attacked at anytime by another player. Something I can't get out of a FPS until it comes down to last man standing. 

  • VidirVidir Member UncommonPosts: 963

    I do avoid mmorpg's that focus on pvp,i dont mind having it in the game but limitet to battlegrounds or something like that.

  • MidareMidare Member Posts: 46

    I value PvE over PvP, that said, I do think PvP should be something people can opt in to when they feel like it. Even I like to hop into a big fight now and then, chasing down and beating an enemy player to death is rather fun when I'm in the mood for it.

     

    Land battles, in-world PvP events. I have to say my favourite in WoW was the Alterac Vally battle ground, I think a game that ran something like that as their prime PvP would be fine... so long as they awarded XP for the player killing in it (to make it a viable way to earn XP for people that like PvP over PvE) and offered multiple maps, perhaps with random bonus objectives or NPC spawns during the instance. You know, just to shake things up and make each match a little more unpredictable.

     

    I also think offering servers with degrees of PvP that people can shunt their toons to and from depending on their interest that day would be a blessing. If you've had a shitty day and do not have the patience for PKers despite normally playing on a PvP server, log into a PvE server. If a PvE player's shitty day inspires in them a need to kill people... they can log into a PvP server (perhaps choosing between a full-loot and say a 10% currency loot server). Also a game have the PvP kills count toward XP. That way people who hold PvP above PvE can progress in-game through doing what they love, on a server that encourages it... and they can leave boring people like me to a PvE server to fish and only fight if I flag myself.

  • HengistHengist Member UncommonPosts: 1,228

    If there isnt PvP, odds are I probably wont invest time and money in buying and playing the game. I know that's just me, and I certainly dont think or feel that my opinion reflects any percentage of MMO players.

    I've done the non-PvP games in the past, and found them to be fairly boring. There is only a certain amount of scripting and end-game content that a developer can put into a game. PvP is random, it is rarely ever the same twice, and to me, it holds a much higher replayability factor in the end-game than does the endless loot grind/raiding environment PvE focused games offer.

    All that being said, I think it is a much harder course to develop a game where classes have to be balanced for both PvE and PvP, in fact that might be one of the largest challenges a developer has to cross if that's the path they take.

    Simple answer? PvP is a needed part of an MMO for me.

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