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Darkfall: Conquer the Seas Expansion Q&A

124

Comments

  • GarickGarick Member UncommonPosts: 88

    why cant they do that with skills and just give you the option to use one skill as one goes away?

     

    I want magic, but I have alot of melee.. click the arrow on melee down, and the one on magic up. Melee goes down everytime magic goes up.

  • Einstein-DFEinstein-DF Member Posts: 752
    Originally posted by thinktank001

    Originally posted by Einstein-DF


     According to Claus, adding a skill cap would be taking away from the game and forcing players to give up their freedom. He explained that Darkfall’s philosophy is adding options rather than restrictions. Specialization options are already in the game, and many more are on their way. He offered three quick examples from December’s upcoming free expansion:
    An option called Jumpshot allows you to jump and fire a bow at a 10 percent penalty on max mana. Aquatic Shot allows you to use a bow under water at a 5 percent penalty on max mana. Finally Mage-Killer will give you bonus damage against users wielding a staff but completely blocks your ability to use elemental, arcane, and necromancy magic. You could select to use all three of these options to get a real edge as an archer vs. magic at a 15 percent max mana penalty plus the magic use penalty. This is a choice you make, you’re not forced to do this, and if you don’t like it you can reverse it easily and get something else that suits your play-style better. There are many high-end specialization options available and more will be added with every update. Claus explained to us that this is the just first step in adding even more diversity to Darkfall.
    Hope that is clear and concise for everyone.
     



     

    So............... they are adding skills to make rock (mage) -paper (archer) -scissor (warrior) classes?  Isn't that against the rules of hardcore sandbox?

     

     

    No just balancing. You can still be using all three in a fight according to distance, skills, weapons and regeants. 

    Magic was overpowered so they made melee/archery more viable to compete IF YOU SO CHOOSE to use only those, as some choose to use only magic

     

    its all about freedom, as Claus stated above

  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,972
    Originally posted by thinktank001




     
    So............... they are adding skills to make rock (mage) -paper (archer) -scissor (warrior) classes?  Isn't that against the rules of hardcore sandbox?



     

    Tell that to CCP genius.

    Adding many new skills over time could be the way around a skill cap.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • Anarchist420Anarchist420 Member Posts: 74
    Originally posted by happyfarts

    Originally posted by Anarchist420

    Originally posted by Ruyn

    Originally posted by Einstein-DF

    Originally posted by Arcken

    Originally posted by Einstein-DF


     Great article guys. The game is developing wonderfully
     
    To think the haters were stating the game would shut down in 6 months....lol....they are actually hiring new people and moving into a bigger building. 
     
    Unlike some games....



     

    Frankly I smell more spin.

    How can a game with such a low population be getting anywhere?

     

    The conspiracy continues.

     

    ...the plot thickens.

     

    ...as i always say, it wont matter if the expansion is spin....... because we all die in 2012!

    speak for yourself

    I will hang around a while longer myself. There'll be me ... and possibly Chuck Norris xD 

     

     

    haha .. Well we all died because of Y2K right?  Why not 2012 too .. oh and when the moon hits the earth from Time Machine, etc.etc.

    image

  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,972

    Have no fear citizens of earth, even with the solar alignment that will be upon us come 2012.

    Tasos is poised to conquer the seas. Ours oceans and coastal regions shall remain safe.

    Greece. The motherland of all that is Darkfall will remain intact.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • CoolWatersCoolWaters Member UncommonPosts: 104
    Originally posted by MannyMana


    They are doing alot of things in the right direction. I will most likely be playing the game after this expansion... HOWEVER I still want to see one of the most important balance issues in the game fixed: Skill deterioration. I have not heard from anyone if this is even planned to be applied as they originally wanted. If they don't apply this to the game it creates grind to be competitive in pvp.  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE add a skill decay to the game! Or at least a hardcap (like UO).
    This game is almost near perfect!



     

    As a long time UO and Shadowbane player I quit DF after a few months, primarially because of this issue.  Without either hard caps on skills or significant skill deterioration there is no meaningful character building and you end up with a bunch of swiss army knives who are all clones of one another running around.  I won't go back untill and unless that is changed.  And frankly, I'll probably play the SB EMU when it comes out anyway.

  • CoolWatersCoolWaters Member UncommonPosts: 104
    Originally posted by sauna


    Until they implement a hardcap on skills DF is doomed to fail :(.
    People macroing away in cities until they have everything maxed means little to no pvp in a huge world.
    Also means no diversity on players and group setups, everyone are masters on both weapons and magic and wears plate.
    Don't really know why they haven't understood this yet after ~7 years of both development and release time...maybe they just want the EVE setup. Which is completely fucked up for a MMOFPSRPG (!) if you ask me.



     

    Exactamundo.

  • CoolWatersCoolWaters Member UncommonPosts: 104
    Originally posted by Einstein-DF

    Originally posted by sauna


    Until they implement a hardcap on skills DF is doomed to fail :(.
    People macroing away in cities until they have everything maxed means little to no pvp in a huge world.
    Also means no diversity on players and group setups, everyone are masters on both weapons and magic and wears plate.
    Don't really know why they haven't understood this yet after ~7 years of both development and release time...maybe they just want the EVE setup. Which is completely fucked up for a MMOFPSRPG (!) if you ask me.

     

    K since you have no idea  what you are talking about I shall set you straight 

     

    Pay attention

     

    There is no more macroing since hunting brings 3 times the skillgain in melee/archery and 6 times in magic

     

    According to Claus, adding a skill cap would be taking away from the game and forcing players to give up their freedom. He explained that Darkfall’s philosophy is adding options rather than restrictions. Specialization options are already in the game, and many more are on their way. He offered three quick examples from December’s upcoming free expansion:

    An option called Jumpshot allows you to jump and fire a bow at a 10 percent penalty on max mana. Aquatic Shot allows you to use a bow under water at a 5 percent penalty on max mana. Finally Mage-Killer will give you bonus damage against users wielding a staff but completely blocks your ability to use elemental, arcane, and necromancy magic. You could select to use all three of these options to get a real edge as an archer vs. magic at a 15 percent max mana penalty plus the magic use penalty. This is a choice you make, you’re not forced to do this, and if you don’t like it you can reverse it easily and get something else that suits your play-style better. There are many high-end specialization options available and more will be added with every update. Claus explained to us that this is the just first step in adding even more diversity to Darkfall.

     

     

    Hope that is clear and concise for everyone.

     



     

    It's clear that you are either a tad on the thick side or you are one of the many, many folks who macroed all their skills up afk already.

    This isn't complicated stuff.  If everyone can max every skill in the game the characters, especially end-game, will be substantially similar and you'll be playing a FPS in a MMO world.  Forcing players to make decisions when building their character, not just when playing one of the thousands of identical characters, largely distinguished MMOs.

    There isn't any rational, honest argument in response.  I'm sorry, but Claus is full of it on this point (assuming you've accurately characterized his comments).  First, those really, really vanilla "specializations" wouldn't provide any fulfilling character building anyway, but more importantly, his comments are self contradictory.  On the one hand he's saying that a skill cap or skill deterioration would "remove freedom," and out of the other side of his mouth he says AV instead will allow an "option" that gives you more damage v. a magic user, but will restrict your ability to use three schools of magic.  Give me a break.  Besides, he's refering to content that isn't even in the game yet. 

    DF has some cool stuff going for it, but the character building renders the whole thing un-fun for me.  Period.  Minor tweaks won't change that.  Skill decay or skill caps *might*.

    edit:  As AV is going for "realism," skill deterioration or caps makes perfect sense anyway.  There's a reason you don't see many doctor-lawyer-astronaut-carpenter-plumber-painter-actor-professional golfer-porn star's running around.  FFS even Bo Jackson had his limits.  Renisance men were rare and they even had limits.  Mortality comes with limits or "caps."  If we don't practice or use a skill once in a while, we get worse at it.  Again, this ain't rocket surgery Jethroe.

  • AzdulAzdul Member Posts: 440
    Originally posted by CoolWaters


    DF has some cool stuff going for it, but the character building renders the whole thing un-fun for me.  Period.  Minor tweaks won't change that.  Skill decay or skill caps *might*.



     

    DF (with Claus as lead designer) is already going further and further from UO roots. And in my opinion it has everything to do with coming of Mortal Online. Those expecting UO in 3D already chosen MO over DF, so there is no point in trying to please them.

     

    Out of the box DF offers fun, fast-paced, no-nonsense, rpg-light experience. More deep, meaningful, role-playing game experience is possible, but in no way forced on players. Optional customization fits nicely in such design philosophy. Skill cap would be something directly opposite.

    In other words: Yes, you can max every skill in DF. It's pointless, costs tons of gold, will take months, it won't give you obvious advantages over someone who maxed only few skills - but you can try, if you find it fun.

     

  • superslayasuperslaya Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Originally posted by Ruyn

    Originally posted by Einstein-DF

    Originally posted by Arcken

    Originally posted by Einstein-DF


     Great article guys. The game is developing wonderfully
     
    To think the haters were stating the game would shut down in 6 months....lol....they are actually hiring new people and moving into a bigger building. 
     
    Unlike some games....



     

    Frankly I smell more spin.

    How can a game with such a low population be getting anywhere?

     

    The conspiracy continues.

     

    ...the plot thickens.

     

    ...The angry gorilla cries.

  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,849
    Originally posted by CoolWaters


    It's clear that you are either a tad on the thick side or you are one of the many, many folks who macroed all their skills up afk already.
    This isn't complicated stuff.  If everyone can max every skill in the game the characters, especially end-game, will be substantially similar and you'll be playing a FPS in a MMO world.  Forcing players to make decisions when building their character, not just when playing one of the thousands of identical characters, largely distinguished MMOs.
    There isn't any rational, honest argument in response.  I'm sorry, but Claus is full of it on this point (assuming you've accurately characterized his comments).  First, those really, really vanilla "specializations" wouldn't provide any fulfilling character building anyway, but more importantly, his comments are self contradictory.  On the one hand he's saying that a skill cap or skill deterioration would "remove freedom," and out of the other side of his mouth he says AV instead will allow an "option" that gives you more damage v. a magic user, but will restrict your ability to use three schools of magic.  Give me a break.  Besides, he's refering to content that isn't even in the game yet. 
    DF has some cool stuff going for it, but the character building renders the whole thing un-fun for me.  Period.  Minor tweaks won't change that.  Skill decay or skill caps *might*.
    edit:  As AV is going for "realism," skill deterioration or caps makes perfect sense anyway.  There's a reason you don't see many doctor-lawyer-astronaut-carpenter-plumber-painter-actor-professional golfer-porn star's running around.  FFS even Bo Jackson had his limits.  Renisance men were rare and they even had limits.  Mortality comes with limits or "caps."  If we don't practice or use a skill once in a while, we get worse at it.  Again, this ain't rocket surgery Jethroe.

     

    It's clear that you don't know what you are talking about.



    First aside from "Run, Sprint and Swimming" it is not possible to AFK to raise ANY skills (except harvesting/crafting which can be done semi-afk). Even the skill "Rest" will not increase if you are Full.



    Concerning Skill-Cap, because of the grind involve in raising those skills, players will focus automatically on specific skills rather than doing a bit of everything because DarkFall requires them to, at some point, specialize in order to be truly effective. And this will be even more true with the upcoming expansion that will force a Global Cooldown on Nuke Magic and add Melee/Archery skills that will greatly increase their strength while also lowering their ability to use Magic.



    If Skills had a cap, everyone would hit the cap and look all the same: A warriormagearcher. Players uses Melee, Archery and Magic during their whole DarkFall experience and in no way would Skill Deterioration be effective because of this.

  • BluefixBluefix Member Posts: 166
    Originally posted by CoolWaters


    As a long time UO and Shadowbane player I quit DF after a few months, primarially because of this issue.  Without either hard caps on skills or significant skill deterioration there is no meaningful character building and you end up with a bunch of swiss army knives who are all clones of one another running around.  I won't go back untill and unless that is changed.  And frankly, I'll probably play the SB EMU when it comes out anyway.



     

    Eve manages great without skill deterioration or a skill cap. Now I know that they cant be compared 100%, but I still believe it's possible to avoid those 2 very non-sandbox solutions.

    And though DF has improved in this department, I agree that it still has some way to go.

  • wartywarlockwartywarlock Member Posts: 106

    Df needed either a skill cap or specialization. They went with specialization, get over it. personally I think it will be much more interesting than caps. Just because you can gain everything, you have to pick one thing to be great at, or be a bit gimped in everything.

  • daarcodaarco Member UncommonPosts: 4,275

    Sweet : )

    And what about the next thing Tasos talks about??

    And what is this talk about skill cap?? In some other MMos it a good thing and for other MMOs it isd a bad thing. Try DF and see for yourself, dont compare it to other games : )

  • CoolWatersCoolWaters Member UncommonPosts: 104
    Originally posted by wartywarlock


    Df needed either a skill cap or specialization. They went with specialization, get over it. personally I think it will be much more interesting than caps. Just because you can gain everything, you have to pick one thing to be great at, or be a bit gimped in everything.



     

    No, you don't have to be "a bit gimped at everything" under the current system.  That would be true if caps of some type existed which forced decisions into skill allocation.  You, in fact, do not have to "pick one thing to be great at."  You can be the best archer, swordsman,  magic user ... of every type, yada yada yada.  That's the entire point.

  • CoolWatersCoolWaters Member UncommonPosts: 104
    Originally posted by MadnessRealm

    Originally posted by CoolWaters


    It's clear that you are either a tad on the thick side or you are one of the many, many folks who macroed all their skills up afk already.
    This isn't complicated stuff.  If everyone can max every skill in the game the characters, especially end-game, will be substantially similar and you'll be playing a FPS in a MMO world.  Forcing players to make decisions when building their character, not just when playing one of the thousands of identical characters, largely distinguished MMOs.
    There isn't any rational, honest argument in response.  I'm sorry, but Claus is full of it on this point (assuming you've accurately characterized his comments).  First, those really, really vanilla "specializations" wouldn't provide any fulfilling character building anyway, but more importantly, his comments are self contradictory.  On the one hand he's saying that a skill cap or skill deterioration would "remove freedom," and out of the other side of his mouth he says AV instead will allow an "option" that gives you more damage v. a magic user, but will restrict your ability to use three schools of magic.  Give me a break.  Besides, he's refering to content that isn't even in the game yet. 
    DF has some cool stuff going for it, but the character building renders the whole thing un-fun for me.  Period.  Minor tweaks won't change that.  Skill decay or skill caps *might*.
    edit:  As AV is going for "realism," skill deterioration or caps makes perfect sense anyway.  There's a reason you don't see many doctor-lawyer-astronaut-carpenter-plumber-painter-actor-professional golfer-porn star's running around.  FFS even Bo Jackson had his limits.  Renisance men were rare and they even had limits.  Mortality comes with limits or "caps."  If we don't practice or use a skill once in a while, we get worse at it.  Again, this ain't rocket surgery Jethroe.

     

    It's clear that you don't know what you are talking about.



    First aside from "Run, Sprint and Swimming" it is not possible to AFK to raise ANY skills (except harvesting/crafting which can be done semi-afk). Even the skill "Rest" will not increase if you are Full.



    Concerning Skill-Cap, because of the grind involve in raising those skills, players will focus automatically on specific skills rather than doing a bit of everything because DarkFall requires them to, at some point, specialize in order to be truly effective. And this will be even more true with the upcoming expansion that will force a Global Cooldown on Nuke Magic and add Melee/Archery skills that will greatly increase their strength while also lowering their ability to use Magic.



    If Skills had a cap, everyone would hit the cap and look all the same: A warriormagearcher. Players uses Melee, Archery and Magic during their whole DarkFall experience and in no way would Skill Deterioration be effective because of this.



     

    On this one:

         "first aside from the skill run, sprint and swimming it is not possible to raise any skills afk."

    We used several macros and afk raised all magic schools, all mele abilities, several harvesting abilities, jumping and others.  I know they raised return from mobs, but if nothing else changed then it's still easily done.

    Your comment that skill caps would make every character look the same "wariormagearcher" demonstrates that you just don't understand what a skill cap is.  A cap would only allow skills that should by all rights be tied to one another ... such as archery, mele skills and magic, to raise at the relative expense of deterioration of one another, thereby forcing you to become very proficient in one area or to become more of a generalist, with no spiked combat abilities.  This would be a good thing.  A necessary thing.  The only players I have ever heard oppose the idea are the ones who macroed everything to 100 early on. 

    Without caps or skill degredation there are no player choices.  Without choices, there is no character building.  You are just painting by the numbers.  It's the difference between religion and philosophy.  When you have a philosophy you choose your beliefs.  When you have a religion, you just follow the outline someone else wrote for you.

    Your comments and conclusions about the future changes Tasos has promised are obviously premature.  I hope you're correct and that they amount to a bass-ackwards way of easing into real character building.  I'll believe it when I see it.  And btw, if you are correct, the effect of tghe changes will simply be to (drumroll here) institute de facto skill caps.

  • CoolWatersCoolWaters Member UncommonPosts: 104
    Originally posted by Azdul

    Originally posted by CoolWaters


    DF has some cool stuff going for it, but the character building renders the whole thing un-fun for me.  Period.  Minor tweaks won't change that.  Skill decay or skill caps *might*.



     

    DF (with Claus as lead designer) is already going further and further from UO roots. And in my opinion it has everything to do with coming of Mortal Online. Those expecting UO in 3D already chosen MO over DF, so there is no point in trying to please them.

     

    Out of the box DF offers fun, fast-paced, no-nonsense, rpg-light experience. More deep, meaningful, role-playing game experience is possible, but in no way forced on players. Optional customization fits nicely in such design philosophy. Skill cap would be something directly opposite.

    In other words: Yes, you can max every skill in DF. It's pointless, costs tons of gold, will take months, it won't give you obvious advantages over someone who maxed only few skills - but you can try, if you find it fun.

     

    That's a pretty nice and accurate post.  The only point I disagree with is that maxing all skills wouldn't give obvious advantages over a player with only "a few" skills maxed.  It does and the advantage is greater the greater the disparity in skill development.

     

    I agree with you that skill caps would be "something directly opposite" to a "fast-paced, no-nonsense, rpg-light experience."  I just believe that DF was intended to be more than that.  That sounds like (and feels like in my playing experience) a FPS.  DF deserves more depth.

  • dorobudorobu Member Posts: 80

    Sounds like a cool game, I just wish there was a trial so I could get off the fence about buying it.

    -doro

  • downtoearthdowntoearth Member Posts: 3,558

    im thinking about resubbing just to bsee

  • mrroboto40mrroboto40 Member UncommonPosts: 657
    Originally posted by dorobu


    Sounds like a cool game, I just wish there was a trial so I could get off the fence about buying it.

     

    I know how you feel, I'm on that fence right beside you,

    image

  • ProfRedProfRed Member UncommonPosts: 3,493

    Just wanted to chime in and say that i'm very impressed with how far Darkfall has come since launch, and I look forward to this expansion.  They are doing a good job of taking a huge world and creating small battlefields throughout.  This is a real sandbox, and just needs continued love and care, and players.  I am confident it will grow into an unbelievable game over time, and hope that more people try it out.

  • daarcodaarco Member UncommonPosts: 4,275
    Originally posted by sauna


    Until they implement a hardcap on skills DF is doomed to fail :(.
    People macroing away in cities until they have everything maxed means little to no pvp in a huge world.
    Also means no diversity on players and group setups, everyone are masters on both weapons and magic and wears plate.
    Don't really know why they haven't understood this yet after ~7 years of both development and release time...maybe they just want the EVE setup. Which is completely fucked up for a MMOFPSRPG (!) if you ask me.



     

    Maybe you should try the game instead, then you would go "ahhh...now i understand!"

    Noone cares whet skill you have gained during tha last six months when you get killed in a fight.  Its not like you can whine "but i have maxed every skill"....noone cares!

  • AzdulAzdul Member Posts: 440
    Originally posted by CoolWaters


    The only point I disagree with is that maxing all skills wouldn't give obvious advantages over a player with only "a few" skills maxed.  It does and the advantage is greater the greater the disparity in skill development.

     
    DF deserves more depth.



     

    Significant advantage of having skills from multiple magic schools was unintended, and AV is trying to correct it with expansion. I guess they're planning to balance game in such way, that after 3 weeks of casual play, with 10 skills maxed, you'll be able to compete with veterans. Will it happen after 2nd expansion ? - I don't know, but we'll find out soon enough.

    About DF gameplay depth:

    What DF now has is fun basic, core gameplay (PvP) and clan politics, wars, territorial control providing deeper "endgame" than raiding for purplez in typical themepark.

    To have successful MMO you need fun core gameplay, and enough content to keep players interested for more than one month, and then you need to listen to your playerbase and improve game for those who liked it in the first place. That's why some features will never be implemented, because current playerbase just don't care about them ...

  • AndarreusAndarreus Member UncommonPosts: 33

    The game seems to be going in the right direction

  • kcc9889kcc9889 Member Posts: 84

    People are failing to understand what the darkfall devs are trying to do. Darkfall is about choice. You don't have anything forced upon you. You can work on anything and everything and get it all up to the max level but there are choices. You can buy spell upgrades, but you have to choose a certain one and now with the patch you can buy new abilities but with a sacrifice to other skills.

    As far as RP goes, again they don't want to force anything on you. The Dynamic Lore system is being put in place so that those who want to RP can, but you don't have to. The devs ar etrying to grow a niche game that is based around choice. If you can go in and understand that you will enjoy this game. You CAN max out all your magic skills BUT you DON'T have to. I have one maxed elemental magic, 2 Melee Masterys, and decent archery, and I am competitive. I will not claim to be an amazing PvPer, but I get my share of kills. Get off the fence and try out darkall. At the very least you are supporting this indy dev team.

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