Lore-masters having a bog-lurker pet is more lore firendly than having a bear pet, ironic isnt it?
Hmm that is kinda ironic. But, the Bog-Lurker and Saber-Tooth isn't the ones bugging me the most, tbh. /points towards the wraith banner bearer, Rk and Goats.
To remain a fragment on topic... I still think this is the best PvE game out there
Lore-masters having a bog-lurker pet is more lore firendly than having a bear pet, ironic isnt it?
Hmm that is kinda ironic. But, the Bog-Lurker and Saber-Tooth isn't the ones bugging me the most, tbh. /points towards the wraith banner bearer, Rk and Goats.
To remain a fragment on topic... I still think this is the best PvE game out there
Yeah, it does not have to be perfect to be a highly enjoyable experience.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
In my opinion the short answer is: There is a TON of it. Really an insane amount of non-stop, always-keep-you-busy, never-stuck-for-something-to-do, PVE. Factor in the help-system, guiding arrows, its really easy to do. Rarely will you be stuck for long. Reading the quests aren't necessary. You can just roll into an area, pick up all the quests you see til your log is full then go knock em out.
Sounds more or less like WoW to me, from the above statement.
I browsed through this thread and am yet to see what makes the PvE in LOTROL so amazing.
I have heard the quests are well written but that is about it, i have heard the classes are not balanced, the instances are few and boring and that the it more or less Tank and spank when it comes to the bosses, there are a few raids with peeps running around with the same tier1 gear. I struggle to see what is speical about it, not to mention amazing!
So Again what makes the Pve in this game so amazing, citing things that are currently in other games does not make it any different and hence not amazing, is there is nothing unique about it then it can hardly be called amazing.
*shrug* Don't know what to tell you. Apparently a lot of people like that. I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for. They're usually running some kind of free trial, go check it out for yourself.
For me one of the biggest pros of the PvE (since MoM) is that at end game there is now meanigfull content and progression for solo, 3 people, 6 people and 12-man raiding. I think that its pretty unique in MMOs and will be improved even more in SoM with the new skirmishes.
How is that unique or amazing? ? ?
There is meaningful content in most MMOs at end game.
Again as a game that is supposed to have amazing PvE, it would be nice for someone who knows about LOTROL to come on here and tell us what it is that makes it amazing........Come on it can't be that hard if it is so good.
So what kind of meaningfull end game content and progression does AoC (or whatever you are playing) have for solo, 3 -man, 6 man and 12-man?
Erh we are talking about Lord of the Rings here, you said the end game content is unique and yet you fail to say how (oh and it can be argued that any games end game is unique).
In essence you are saying that LOTRO is amazing and better than any other game on the market due to the end game content, where as it has been stated on this thread that it is not as much or as good as Wow's, if your game is not better than WoW then how on earth can you describe it as amazing!
And then to deflect from what you said, maybe due to the inability to defend it, you ask about AoC, which seems to me as a sign of someone who has no substance behind his words.
If I were you i would have responded like" LOTRO has better end game because it has 'this' and 'that' and you can do 'this' and 'that' which as far as i know is only available inthis game and thats what makes it unique" Note to dhayes68 this is what i am looking for.
So please fill in the missing 'this and 'that' s, ie put up or shut down........
Let's compare it a bit with Vanguard then to make it more specific.
For PvE explorers:
Vanguard offers a world which is 5 times larger in size than Lotro. In VG you can find unique quest lines hidden on small desolated islands, you can find dungeons that people hardly run, because not many people know them, you can find player build city somewhere off the coast or deep hidden among the desert dunes. Lotro world is much more linear, all zones are exactly for certain level range (1-6, 7-12, 13-20, 21-35...) each zone is connected with one or two narrow paths (except for lone-lands and bree-land). Even each zone is usually quite linear (trollshaws is a series of narrow paths and walkways, same goes for misty mountains, angmar) but there are some exceptions where you are free to go in any direction without being forced to follow a path by an impassable hill (shire, bree-land, forochel)
In comparison Lotro falls short. Vanguard 1 Lotro 0.
For PvE crafters:
Vanguard crafting has a complete minigame system for crafting. Each crafted/harvested item has 4 qualities (A,B,C,D) - which are directly related to how you crafted/harvested it. Vanguard has a special inventory solely for crafting and for harvesting. Crafting in Vanguard is totally separated from adventuring, and you can easily hit level 50 crafter and still stay level 1 adventurer. Sure, rare resources have to be harvested in dangerous zones and so to make best items you need to either buy them, or have a friendly guild that will "escort" you while you harvest. Lotro crafting is made of a single create button and then a crafting bar. While in Vanguard, you can add special dusts and modify the bonuses for each individual items (like you want more dexterity, you add dust of dexterity), in Lotro, all items are fixed.
Vanguard 2 Lotro 0
For PvE dungeon crawlers:
Vanguard offer 80 long dungeons each with dozen bosses that range throught all the level ranges. With a group you can spend every day in a different dungeon and hit the level cap solely by doing that. There's also around 20 overland raid bosses that freely roam the country, and there's 2 long raid dungeons (one with 25 bosses, the other with 20). Lotro offers 5 dungeons in level range between 1-49, then another 7 dungeons for level 50-52 (which was a previous end-game), then 1 dungeon between 52-59, and then 8 dungeons for level 60 (current end-game). You can hardly level up solely in dungeons (impossible). Lotro also contains 1 multi-boss end-game raid, and 2 single-boss end-game raids. The amount of raid bosses pales in comparison with Vanguard.
Vanguard 3, Lotro 0
For PvE questers.
Vanguard has multiple quest hubs to level up among 1-35 and basically each character you create can have a different experience. After level 35, the choices narrow down, but you still will be able to choose among 2-3 hubs where to go. Lotro offers 4 questing hubs between levels 1-14, then it's two zones for 15-20, then it's two zones for 21-35, one zone for 36-40, and finally 4 zones for 41-52. After level 52 you are stuck in Moria.
Truth is, Lotro has much stronger IP, the quests descriptions are related with the world (some more, some less), Vanguard has generic world. I will not try to say which one here is better. Both leveling experiences in my opinion are equal.
VG 3.5 - Lotro 0.5
Non-combat miscallenous PvE activity
Vanguard offers non-instanced player housing with huge selection of player crafted furniture. Lotro offers instanced housing in 4 different zones, with not many slots to fill up, and most of the interiors seem empty. Vanguard interiors are much more cozy. I can provide you some screenshots to see the difference if you wish.
Vanguard has diplomacy system, another mini-game which you can do if you wish. It's a card game similiar to Magic the Gathering (a lot simplified of course). Diplomacy is another way to improve your reputation with factions, make money, get discounts for housing plots, faction mounts. Diplomacy also opens up unique powerful town buffs.
Vanguard also offers 12 fully craftable ships, and 3 flying mounts and around 20 unique looking ground mounts. Lotro has around 7 different horses (which are great) and goats (which are horrid). Indeed, flying mounts and more mounts variety wouldn't do any good to Middle Earth lore so I not see this as a disadvantage.
On the other hand, Lotro has player music system using I think now around 8 different musical instruments.
To sum up, it's a close fight between a non-instanced player housing + ships + diplomacy versus player music + instanced player housing. I won't again pass judgements so I call it a draw.
VG 4 - Lotro 1
Story-wise PvE content.
There's barely any long storyline that would keep going in Vanguard. Lotro has book chain line which makes him a clear winner in this category.
VG 4 - Lotro 2.
PvE content Quality/Challenge/Itemization
Vanguard is one of the most challenging games out there. It has experience loss on death. Bosses are usually not just tank & spank, often you will wonder why you can't hurt them. Threat resets and random scripted behavior makes each fight different. Itemization throughout the levels 1-54 in VG is fantastic. I still managed to make a server item discovery on my crafter for a level 33 item recently (which means, noone ever made such an item yet). At level 55 the itemization gets more narrow, each class has basically 1 armor set. Lotro-end game itemization is also pretty much dumbed down into a radiance gear (each class has one set). There's much less variety for crafted gear than in Vanguard. Additionally, Vanguard offers 19 races, 15 classes, while Lotro offers 4 races, 9 classes. Both games have unique starting zones for each class (1-6). And again Lotro falls short in this category.
VG 5 - Lotro 2.
That's how I see it, please before going into personal heated insults again, keep in my mind, this is my opinion. I don't speak on behalf of God and this is not an ultimate truth for everyone. If you have a different opinion it's fine, we can discuss it and go further into detail. But don't come into calling me a troll, a hater, that I have an agenda or whatever.
For me one of the biggest pros of the PvE (since MoM) is that at end game there is now meanigfull content and progression for solo, 3 people, 6 people and 12-man raiding. I think that its pretty unique in MMOs and will be improved even more in SoM with the new skirmishes.
How is that unique or amazing? ? ?
There is meaningful content in most MMOs at end game.
Again as a game that is supposed to have amazing PvE, it would be nice for someone who knows about LOTROL to come on here and tell us what it is that makes it amazing........Come on it can't be that hard if it is so good.
So what kind of meaningfull end game content and progression does AoC (or whatever you are playing) have for solo, 3 -man, 6 man and 12-man?
Erh we are talking about Lord of the Rings here, you said the end game content is unique and yet you fail to say how (oh and it can be argued that any games end game is unique).
In essence you are saying that LOTRO is amazing and better than any other game on the market due to the end game content, where as it has been stated on this thread that it is not as much or as good as Wow's, if your game is not better than WoW then how on earth can you describe it as amazing!
And then to deflect from what you said, maybe due to the inability to defend it, you ask about AoC, which seems to me as a sign of someone who has no substance behind his words.
If I were you i would have responded like" LOTRO has better end game because it has 'this' and 'that' and you can do 'this' and 'that' which as far as i know is only available inthis game and thats what makes it unique" Note to dhayes68 this is what i am looking for.
So please fill in the missing 'this and 'that' s, ie put up or shut down........
Eh I think you completly missed my point or you just didnt read my posts... I said that one of the best things about LotrO (for me) is that it offers content and progression at "end game" for solo playing and for 3/6/12 people and that its unique for LotrO as far as I know.
You then claimed that all MMOs does have that (without giving examples). So then I asked you to tell me how AoC (since I think thats the MMO you are playing) have content and progression at level cap for solo and 3/6/12 man. It was not meant as a bash against AoC, seems like you just want to sidetrack the discussion.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Eh I think you completly missed my point or you just didnt read my posts... I said that one of the best things about LotrO (for me) is that it offers content and progression at "end game" for solo playing and for 3/6/12 people and that its unique for LotrO as far as I know. You then claimed that all MMOs does have that (without giving examples). So then I asked you to tell me how AoC (since I think thats the MMO you are playing) have content and progression at level cap for solo and 3/6/12 man. It was not meant as a bash against AoC, seems like you just want to sidetrack the discussion.
I know you don't like when things go too much into detail and being more specific. But I will compare it again with Vanguard.
Solo, 3 6 12 man progression for end-game.
In vanguard, soloer can : immerse himself into crafting minigame, creating one of the best gears in game for everyone - can create server discoveries, and make unique items. The item he creates not only bear his name, but has unique set of bonuses the crafter chooses. Soloer can also work on his ship, non-instanced player housing (these things take time), or follow a looong chainline for flying mount, or a unique racial mount. (long story chainlines) He can also do his spell research and find new spells and abilities for his or her class (long chain line again), he can also do another type of minigame called diplomacy - to improve reputations with certain factions, to help him improve in other aspects (crafting, combat) with unique long duration city buffs. There are also dungeons for one man groups.
For 2-4 manned groups. Form a brotherhood and share all experiences they get even if some are logged out. Most of the dungeons in game are doable in 2-4 man groups with good class setup and solid gear. 2-4 man can also do a group harvesting (which improves the chance of obtaining rare harvesting material if they all assist each other). They can also work on spell research (faster than solo), on unique flying mount.
For 5-6 manned groups: To work on pre-raid questlines, can do the long chain quest line for different flying mount (nicer and faster), choose of the many dungeons to do, even better spell research.
For 12-18 manned groups - do the two raids in game both containing more than 20 bosses. Or one of the overland raid bosses. They can also do the raid harvesting, can form caravans, can help each other with crafting - guild halls (which takes long time) or the biggest ships (galleons).
Solo end-game progression: Do the crafting which is fixed and you do pretty much the same as everyone else. Do the crafting instances (which is just an instanced small dungeon where you don't need to fight other players for resources) Work on deeds.
3 Man: Do 3 different dungeons that takes up to 40 minutes.
6 man: Do 6 different dungeons that takes up to 2 hours.
12 man: do 1 raid instance with 8 bosses, or two single-boss raid instance.
You have no shared crafting, no group harvesting, no working on guild hall or ships no spell research, etc.
Let's compare it a bit with Vanguard then to make it more specific. For PvE explorers: Vanguard offers a world which is 5 times larger in size than Lotro. In VG you can find unique quest lines hidden on small desolated islands, you can find dungeons that people hardly run, because not many people know them, you can find player build city somewhere off the coast or deep hidden among the desert dunes. Lotro world is much more linear, all zones are exactly for certain level range (1-6, 7-12, 13-20, 21-35...) each zone is connected with one or two narrow paths (except for lone-lands and bree-land). Even each zone is usually quite linear (trollshaws is a series of narrow paths and walkways, same goes for misty mountains, angmar) but there are some exceptions where you are free to go in any direction without being forced to follow a path by an impassable hill (shire, bree-land, forochel) In comparison Lotro falls short. Vanguard 1 Lotro 0. Big boring generic world vs a smaller detailed world. Its whatever you prefer. 1-1 For PvE crafters: Vanguard crafting has a complete minigame system for crafting. Each crafted/harvested item has 4 qualities (A,B,C,D) - which are directly related to how you crafted/harvested it. Vanguard has a special inventory solely for crafting and for harvesting. Crafting in Vanguard is totally separated from adventuring, and you can easily hit level 50 crafter and still stay level 1 adventurer. Sure, rare resources have to be harvested in dangerous zones and so to make best items you need to either buy them, or have a friendly guild that will "escort" you while you harvest. Lotro crafting is made of a single create button and then a crafting bar. While in Vanguard, you can add special dusts and modify the bonuses for each individual items (like you want more dexterity, you add dust of dexterity), in Lotro, all items are fixed. Vanguard 2 Lotro 0 I dont like crafting much, having simple but solid crafting is a plus to me. 2-2 For PvE dungeon crawlers: Vanguard offer 80 long dungeons each with dozen bosses that range throught all the level ranges. With a group you can spend every day in a different dungeon and hit the level cap solely by doing that. There's also around 20 overland raid bosses that freely roam the country, and there's 2 long raid dungeons (one with 25 bosses, the other with 20). Lotro offers 5 dungeons in level range between 1-49, then another 7 dungeons for level 50-52 (which was a previous end-game), then 1 dungeon between 52-59, and then 8 dungeons for level 60 (current end-game). You can hardly level up solely in dungeons (impossible). Lotro also contains 1 multi-boss end-game raid, and 2 single-boss end-game raids. The amount of raid bosses pales in comparison with Vanguard. Vanguard 3, Lotro 0 Have never set foot in a VG dungeon but the designe philosophy seems again to be the opposite, I prefer smaller more story oriented dungeons that LotrO have tons off. 3-3 For PvE questers. Vanguard has multiple quest hubs to level up among 1-35 and basically each character you create can have a different experience. After level 35, the choices narrow down, but you still will be able to choose among 2-3 hubs where to go. Lotro offers 4 questing hubs between levels 1-14, then it's two zones for 15-20, then it's two zones for 21-35, one zone for 36-40, and finally 4 zones for 41-52. After level 52 you are stuck in Moria. Truth is, Lotro has much stronger IP, the quests descriptions are related with the world (some more, some less), Vanguard has generic world. I will not try to say which one here is better. Both leveling experiences in my opinion are equal. VG 3.5 - Lotro 0.5 So 4-4 Non-combat miscallenous PvE activity Vanguard offers non-instanced player housing with huge selection of player crafted furniture. Lotro offers instanced housing in 4 different zones, with not many slots to fill up, and most of the interiors seem empty. Vanguard interiors are much more cozy. I can provide you some screenshots to see the difference if you wish. Vanguard has diplomacy system, another mini-game which you can do if you wish. It's a card game similiar to Magic the Gathering (a lot simplified of course). Diplomacy is another way to improve your reputation with factions, make money, get discounts for housing plots, faction mounts. Diplomacy also opens up unique powerful town buffs. Vanguard also offers 12 fully craftable ships, and 3 flying mounts and around 20 unique looking ground mounts. Lotro has around 7 different horses (which are great) and goats (which are horrid). Indeed, flying mounts and more mounts variety wouldn't do any good to Middle Earth lore so I not see this as a disadvantage. On the other hand, Lotro has player music system using I think now around 8 different musical instruments. To sum up, it's a close fight between a non-instanced player housing + ships + diplomacy versus player music + instanced player housing. I won't again pass judgements so I call it a draw. VG 4 - Lotro 1 So 5-5 Story-wise PvE content. There's barely any long storyline that would keep going in Vanguard. Lotro has book chain line which makes him a clear winner in this category. VG 4 - Lotro 2. 5-6 and for me the most important reason why LotrO is the best PvE MMO, just like I think Planescape Torment is the best single player RPG even if its pretty small, have crap custimization, poor combat etc PvE content Quality/Challenge/Itemization Vanguard is one of the most challenging games out there. It has experience loss on death. Bosses are usually not just tank & spank, often you will wonder why you can't hurt them. Threat resets and random scripted behavior makes each fight different. Itemization throughout the levels 1-54 in VG is fantastic. I still managed to make a server item discovery on my crafter for a level 33 item recently (which means, noone ever made such an item yet). At level 55 the itemization gets more narrow, each class has basically 1 armor set. Lotro-end game itemization is also pretty much dumbed down into a radiance gear (each class has one set). There's much less variety for crafted gear than in Vanguard. Additionally, Vanguard offers 19 races, 15 classes, while Lotro offers 4 races, 9 classes. Both games have unique starting zones for each class (1-6). And again Lotro falls short in this category.
VG 5 - Lotro 2. Personally I think Quality>Quantity. As stated before there alot of different mechanics in LotrO bosses (even thou you never responded to my post ) 6-7 That's how I see it, please before going into personal heated insults again, keep in my mind, this is my opinion. I don't speak on behalf of God and this is not an ultimate truth for everyone. If you have a different opinion it's fine, we can discuss it and go further into detail. But don't come into calling me a troll, a hater, that I have an agenda or whatever.
Good post, personally I didnt enjoy Vanguard at all, and didnt even finish the starter island because I couldnt find anything likeable about it and the bugs didnt help. Your opinions is not the reason why people call you a troll. Its the fact that you over and over again post the same thing, nit picking about whatever negative you find, exagerating and even lying and making up silly conspiracy theories... Have fun in Vanguard Im glad you are enjoying it, different strokes for different folks.
Polish: I dont think I have to say anything here. 6-8 Presentation: Graphics and sound and overall presentation is by far better in LotrO imo. 6-9 New content: LotrO have got 8 content updates, MoM expansion and now a mini expansion. VG have got very little new content in its 2.5 years, some new mounts, new starter Island + the mini expansion. 6-10 Character custimization: Dont know what VG offers here so I call it a draw 7-11 Casual/solo friendly. Never heard about VG being good for soloers and smaller groups. LotrO have alot of solo 3- and 6-man content even at level cap. 7-12 Community: 7-13 Dont think that needs further explanation.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Please elaborate what makes Vanguard generic bland world. There are hidden dungeons everywhere, towns, quest hubs.
Vanguard recieved since last year : new raid, level cap increase from 50 to 55, new class revamps, 16 unique looking mounts, new 3 ships - galleons, spell research, every one of the 15 classes recieved around 18 new spells and abilities that you can research following long quest lines.
Lotro since last year got 1 raid, 1 single boss raid, 1 zone and a couple of 3 man instances.
Amount of updates are favouring Vanguard.
You just admitted you never tried any of the Vanguard dungeons, yet you dare to call them they have less quality than Lotro - which pretty much sums up your ignorance towards other games and keep blindliy praising the one with ridiculous claims such as "Lotro PVE is the best" - while I say, Lotro PvE is average to the market standard at the moment.
About the Lotro tank & spank bosses. I said just because they throw out a few adds now and then and spawn a red glowing spot on ground you have to avoid, doesn't mean they are anything more. You said the final boss in GS have aoe and has to be kited. In fact it doesn't, with a solid tank, the boss is just another tank and spank boss. Just because almost every boss in game can be kited to make it easier is not really a perk, it's more or less an exploit used to make it a walk in the park.
"Have never set foot in a VG dungeon but the designe philosophy seems again to be the opposite, I prefer smaller more story oriented dungeons that LotrO have tons off. 3-3"
This is what you just said. You never was in any Vanguard dungeon. I can hardly believe you ever played Vanguard and if you did, then never left the trial island.
Yet you still manage to make comparisons between those two ... from what : screenshots?, other people's opinions? What, you tell me. I did play Vanguard for 2 and a half year, and Lotro since the release until recently. I spent in both games in-game for 2-3 months pure /played time in total. You say, Lotro has better PvE than Vanguard yet you never was in Vanguard dungeon or you never left the trial island.
You kept calling me a troll for stating my opinion and my reasons why I left the game after years (lotro), yet you just managed to COMPARE IT with a game you never really played. Incredible.
I played Vanguard for 1 1/2 years and think its a good game. What tips the PvE gold medal to lotro, is the feel of the world and the story told. Lotro seems more immersive and alive, while Vanguard, yet big, is lifeless and bland. A good example is the mentioned player cities, which are nothing more than a couple of deserted stone buildings scattered around - Those "player cities" doesnt do Telon any favours immersive-vise.
While the Vanguard crafting is, for the lack of a better word, complex, the mini-game becomes dull and mindnumbing after a while. I like lotro's crafting better for this reason alone. mind-numbing<easy
The Lotro's race/class setup also beats Vanguard, in my book. While I do enjoy the classes in Vanguard, I hate many of the races, like the Vulmane, Kurashasa, Raki and specially the Vanguard dwarf. In lotro I just have problem with one class, but that is not because of game-play but rather from a fluff perspective.
The only "wins" I will give Vanguard is Exploration and Dungeons. All other PvE features, I personally, will give to Lotro; role-playing, story, quests, community, social features, crafting, graphics etc. As a big bonus to Lotro is that it seems to have a much brighter future with Turbines plans to take their Middle Earth all the way to Mordor.
You wanted to turn this into a LotrO vs Vanguard battle and I stated my opinions of the games and what experience I have with them and I think I did so in a mature and diplomatic way since I respect VG and understand why some people love it, but its not my cup of tea. You really dont think people can have a differnt opinion from yourself do you? You really think VG have got alot of content during its first 2.5 years? They got 1 big mini-expansion this year and its pretty much all. Next mini expansion seems to be another 6 months away.
Its funny how you flame LotrO for the radiance gating (which is getting revamped) over and over again and you claim other MMOs are miving away from this, can you please tell what Vanguard is like lvl 50-55?
I told you BesCirga. I told all of you. Its pointless.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Its sad to see you turn into a simple troll Thillian, if you dont like the game then maybe you should move on with your lifef instead of spreading lies and personal opinions as if they were facts. -----------------------------------jabber and insults...
This is your post that was a reaction to mine. You called me a troll, because you couldn't stand someone else might have a different opinion.
If you are bringing up criticism of VG players for certain aspects, then here is a 700+ posts long thread where you actually posted on Lotro official forums and where people are very unhappy with the game currently.
You said Vanguard has boring and blend world, I posted the screenshots you didn't react to. You said Lotro has better dungeon crawling than Vanguard, and then admitted you never was in any VG dungeon. Please react to that as well before moving on.
This is your post that was a reaction to mine. You called me a troll, because you couldn't stand someone else might have a different opinion. If you are bringing up criticism of VG players for certain aspects, then here is a 700+ posts long thread where you actually posted on Lotro official forums and where people are very unhappy with the game currently. http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396053 You said Vanguard has boring and blend world, I posted the screenshots you didn't react to. You said Lotro has better dungeon crawling than Vanguard, and then admitted you never was in any VG dungeon. Please react to that as well before moving on.
A world can't be defended by screenshots. Vanguard has a lifeless feel to it, which can't be felt through a screenshot.
Papadam was correct though in his assuption that Lotro's dungeons are smaller and more story to them. He guessed right...
Its sad to see you turn into a simple troll Thillian, if you dont like the game then maybe you should move on with your lifef instead of spreading lies and personal opinions as if they were facts. -----------------------------------jabber and insults...
This is your post that was a reaction to mine. You called me a troll, because you couldn't stand someone else might have a different opinion.
Eh what? Read my other posts.
If you are bringing up criticism of VG players for certain aspects, then here is a 700+ posts long thread where you actually posted on Lotro official forums and where people are very unhappy with the game currently.
Eh what? I know people complaining about radiance and I agree to some extent and its getting revamped next week like Ive said many times. And you are flaming it over and over and praising VG when infact they have an even worse gating system at higher levels. Irony?
You said Vanguard has boring and blend world, I posted the screenshots you didn't react to. You said Lotro has better dungeon crawling than Vanguard, and then admitted you never was in any VG dungeon. Please react to that as well before moving on.
Eh what? Where did I say LotrO have better dungeon crawl than VG, I said they were different? And I think thoose screenshots speaks for themself.
heh I really have nothing more to say to you... just unbelievable!
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
heh I really have nothing more to say to you... just unbelievable!
Please read again the whole thread. You reacted to my post eventho I didn't address anything to you. You called me a troll and a liar. Something which would probably most people turn off from any further conversation with you.
It was you who wanted to bring comparisons with AoC eventho we all know AoC doesn't excel in PvE either.
You then tried to compare dungeons and world in VG with Lotro, while you admitted in next sentence you never been in any of the VG dungeons, and until now you didn't explain how long did you actually play VG outside of trial island.
You said the only thing so far why do you think Lotro PvE is the best, which was that it allows end-game progression for solo and 3/6/12 manned groups. My comparison with Vanguard was again ignored. Radiance is getting revamped, but if you had notice I was talking about gating. Gating will still be present in SoM, only the way you obtain radiance will change to a small extent. This is something I already wrote before and I have to repeat myself because you keep responding with the same thing without reading what I wrote.
So far from the whole thread it is uncertain for anyone involved why Lotro PvE should be the best. Which is quite ridiculous statement by itself indeed. It is expected people will describe their opinions and experiences. When I did that, I got instantly flamed by you that Im a troll and a liar. Which in fact reflects your level of confidence and shows your ignorance towards other people's opinion. You should state your opinion why do you think it is best and not trying to flame/discredit me. I would never address anything to you, your opinion does not insult me. I expect the same from you.
I remember we used to have long discussions about 2 years ago when I was defending Lotro, and you were defending WoW. Incredibly as it sounds, the things have obviously changed. If you don't remember, I can dig it from my post history if you wish. I did enjoy Lotro for quite some time, until for me it was all messed up in MoM.
Comments
Hmm that is kinda ironic. But, the Bog-Lurker and Saber-Tooth isn't the ones bugging me the most, tbh. /points towards the wraith banner bearer, Rk and Goats.
To remain a fragment on topic... I still think this is the best PvE game out there
Hmm that is kinda ironic. But, the Bog-Lurker and Saber-Tooth isn't the ones bugging me the most, tbh. /points towards the wraith banner bearer, Rk and Goats.
To remain a fragment on topic... I still think this is the best PvE game out there
Yeah, it does not have to be perfect to be a highly enjoyable experience.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Sounds more or less like WoW to me, from the above statement.
I browsed through this thread and am yet to see what makes the PvE in LOTROL so amazing.
I have heard the quests are well written but that is about it, i have heard the classes are not balanced, the instances are few and boring and that the it more or less Tank and spank when it comes to the bosses, there are a few raids with peeps running around with the same tier1 gear. I struggle to see what is speical about it, not to mention amazing!
So Again what makes the Pve in this game so amazing, citing things that are currently in other games does not make it any different and hence not amazing, is there is nothing unique about it then it can hardly be called amazing.
*shrug* Don't know what to tell you. Apparently a lot of people like that. I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for. They're usually running some kind of free trial, go check it out for yourself.
How is that unique or amazing? ? ?
There is meaningful content in most MMOs at end game.
Again as a game that is supposed to have amazing PvE, it would be nice for someone who knows about LOTROL to come on here and tell us what it is that makes it amazing........Come on it can't be that hard if it is so good.
So what kind of meaningfull end game content and progression does AoC (or whatever you are playing) have for solo, 3 -man, 6 man and 12-man?
Erh we are talking about Lord of the Rings here, you said the end game content is unique and yet you fail to say how (oh and it can be argued that any games end game is unique).
In essence you are saying that LOTRO is amazing and better than any other game on the market due to the end game content, where as it has been stated on this thread that it is not as much or as good as Wow's, if your game is not better than WoW then how on earth can you describe it as amazing!
And then to deflect from what you said, maybe due to the inability to defend it, you ask about AoC, which seems to me as a sign of someone who has no substance behind his words.
If I were you i would have responded like" LOTRO has better end game because it has 'this' and 'that' and you can do 'this' and 'that' which as far as i know is only available inthis game and thats what makes it unique" Note to dhayes68 this is what i am looking for.
So please fill in the missing 'this and 'that' s, ie put up or shut down........
Let's compare it a bit with Vanguard then to make it more specific.
For PvE explorers:
Vanguard offers a world which is 5 times larger in size than Lotro. In VG you can find unique quest lines hidden on small desolated islands, you can find dungeons that people hardly run, because not many people know them, you can find player build city somewhere off the coast or deep hidden among the desert dunes. Lotro world is much more linear, all zones are exactly for certain level range (1-6, 7-12, 13-20, 21-35...) each zone is connected with one or two narrow paths (except for lone-lands and bree-land). Even each zone is usually quite linear (trollshaws is a series of narrow paths and walkways, same goes for misty mountains, angmar) but there are some exceptions where you are free to go in any direction without being forced to follow a path by an impassable hill (shire, bree-land, forochel)
In comparison Lotro falls short. Vanguard 1 Lotro 0.
For PvE crafters:
Vanguard crafting has a complete minigame system for crafting. Each crafted/harvested item has 4 qualities (A,B,C,D) - which are directly related to how you crafted/harvested it. Vanguard has a special inventory solely for crafting and for harvesting. Crafting in Vanguard is totally separated from adventuring, and you can easily hit level 50 crafter and still stay level 1 adventurer. Sure, rare resources have to be harvested in dangerous zones and so to make best items you need to either buy them, or have a friendly guild that will "escort" you while you harvest. Lotro crafting is made of a single create button and then a crafting bar. While in Vanguard, you can add special dusts and modify the bonuses for each individual items (like you want more dexterity, you add dust of dexterity), in Lotro, all items are fixed.
Vanguard 2 Lotro 0
For PvE dungeon crawlers:
Vanguard offer 80 long dungeons each with dozen bosses that range throught all the level ranges. With a group you can spend every day in a different dungeon and hit the level cap solely by doing that. There's also around 20 overland raid bosses that freely roam the country, and there's 2 long raid dungeons (one with 25 bosses, the other with 20). Lotro offers 5 dungeons in level range between 1-49, then another 7 dungeons for level 50-52 (which was a previous end-game), then 1 dungeon between 52-59, and then 8 dungeons for level 60 (current end-game). You can hardly level up solely in dungeons (impossible). Lotro also contains 1 multi-boss end-game raid, and 2 single-boss end-game raids. The amount of raid bosses pales in comparison with Vanguard.
Vanguard 3, Lotro 0
For PvE questers.
Vanguard has multiple quest hubs to level up among 1-35 and basically each character you create can have a different experience. After level 35, the choices narrow down, but you still will be able to choose among 2-3 hubs where to go. Lotro offers 4 questing hubs between levels 1-14, then it's two zones for 15-20, then it's two zones for 21-35, one zone for 36-40, and finally 4 zones for 41-52. After level 52 you are stuck in Moria.
Truth is, Lotro has much stronger IP, the quests descriptions are related with the world (some more, some less), Vanguard has generic world. I will not try to say which one here is better. Both leveling experiences in my opinion are equal.
VG 3.5 - Lotro 0.5
Non-combat miscallenous PvE activity
Vanguard offers non-instanced player housing with huge selection of player crafted furniture. Lotro offers instanced housing in 4 different zones, with not many slots to fill up, and most of the interiors seem empty. Vanguard interiors are much more cozy. I can provide you some screenshots to see the difference if you wish.
Vanguard has diplomacy system, another mini-game which you can do if you wish. It's a card game similiar to Magic the Gathering (a lot simplified of course). Diplomacy is another way to improve your reputation with factions, make money, get discounts for housing plots, faction mounts. Diplomacy also opens up unique powerful town buffs.
Vanguard also offers 12 fully craftable ships, and 3 flying mounts and around 20 unique looking ground mounts. Lotro has around 7 different horses (which are great) and goats (which are horrid). Indeed, flying mounts and more mounts variety wouldn't do any good to Middle Earth lore so I not see this as a disadvantage.
On the other hand, Lotro has player music system using I think now around 8 different musical instruments.
To sum up, it's a close fight between a non-instanced player housing + ships + diplomacy versus player music + instanced player housing. I won't again pass judgements so I call it a draw.
VG 4 - Lotro 1
Story-wise PvE content.
There's barely any long storyline that would keep going in Vanguard. Lotro has book chain line which makes him a clear winner in this category.
VG 4 - Lotro 2.
PvE content Quality/Challenge/Itemization
Vanguard is one of the most challenging games out there. It has experience loss on death. Bosses are usually not just tank & spank, often you will wonder why you can't hurt them. Threat resets and random scripted behavior makes each fight different. Itemization throughout the levels 1-54 in VG is fantastic. I still managed to make a server item discovery on my crafter for a level 33 item recently (which means, noone ever made such an item yet). At level 55 the itemization gets more narrow, each class has basically 1 armor set. Lotro-end game itemization is also pretty much dumbed down into a radiance gear (each class has one set). There's much less variety for crafted gear than in Vanguard. Additionally, Vanguard offers 19 races, 15 classes, while Lotro offers 4 races, 9 classes. Both games have unique starting zones for each class (1-6). And again Lotro falls short in this category.
VG 5 - Lotro 2.
That's how I see it, please before going into personal heated insults again, keep in my mind, this is my opinion. I don't speak on behalf of God and this is not an ultimate truth for everyone. If you have a different opinion it's fine, we can discuss it and go further into detail. But don't come into calling me a troll, a hater, that I have an agenda or whatever.
REALITY CHECK
How is that unique or amazing? ? ?
There is meaningful content in most MMOs at end game.
Again as a game that is supposed to have amazing PvE, it would be nice for someone who knows about LOTROL to come on here and tell us what it is that makes it amazing........Come on it can't be that hard if it is so good.
So what kind of meaningfull end game content and progression does AoC (or whatever you are playing) have for solo, 3 -man, 6 man and 12-man?
Erh we are talking about Lord of the Rings here, you said the end game content is unique and yet you fail to say how (oh and it can be argued that any games end game is unique).
In essence you are saying that LOTRO is amazing and better than any other game on the market due to the end game content, where as it has been stated on this thread that it is not as much or as good as Wow's, if your game is not better than WoW then how on earth can you describe it as amazing!
And then to deflect from what you said, maybe due to the inability to defend it, you ask about AoC, which seems to me as a sign of someone who has no substance behind his words.
If I were you i would have responded like" LOTRO has better end game because it has 'this' and 'that' and you can do 'this' and 'that' which as far as i know is only available inthis game and thats what makes it unique" Note to dhayes68 this is what i am looking for.
So please fill in the missing 'this and 'that' s, ie put up or shut down........
Eh I think you completly missed my point or you just didnt read my posts... I said that one of the best things about LotrO (for me) is that it offers content and progression at "end game" for solo playing and for 3/6/12 people and that its unique for LotrO as far as I know.
You then claimed that all MMOs does have that (without giving examples). So then I asked you to tell me how AoC (since I think thats the MMO you are playing) have content and progression at level cap for solo and 3/6/12 man. It was not meant as a bash against AoC, seems like you just want to sidetrack the discussion.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I know you don't like when things go too much into detail and being more specific. But I will compare it again with Vanguard.
Solo, 3 6 12 man progression for end-game.
In vanguard, soloer can : immerse himself into crafting minigame, creating one of the best gears in game for everyone - can create server discoveries, and make unique items. The item he creates not only bear his name, but has unique set of bonuses the crafter chooses. Soloer can also work on his ship, non-instanced player housing (these things take time), or follow a looong chainline for flying mount, or a unique racial mount. (long story chainlines) He can also do his spell research and find new spells and abilities for his or her class (long chain line again), he can also do another type of minigame called diplomacy - to improve reputations with certain factions, to help him improve in other aspects (crafting, combat) with unique long duration city buffs. There are also dungeons for one man groups.
For 2-4 manned groups. Form a brotherhood and share all experiences they get even if some are logged out. Most of the dungeons in game are doable in 2-4 man groups with good class setup and solid gear. 2-4 man can also do a group harvesting (which improves the chance of obtaining rare harvesting material if they all assist each other). They can also work on spell research (faster than solo), on unique flying mount.
For 5-6 manned groups: To work on pre-raid questlines, can do the long chain quest line for different flying mount (nicer and faster), choose of the many dungeons to do, even better spell research.
For 12-18 manned groups - do the two raids in game both containing more than 20 bosses. Or one of the overland raid bosses. They can also do the raid harvesting, can form caravans, can help each other with crafting - guild halls (which takes long time) or the biggest ships (galleons).
REALITY CHECK
In lotro:
Solo end-game progression: Do the crafting which is fixed and you do pretty much the same as everyone else. Do the crafting instances (which is just an instanced small dungeon where you don't need to fight other players for resources) Work on deeds.
3 Man: Do 3 different dungeons that takes up to 40 minutes.
6 man: Do 6 different dungeons that takes up to 2 hours.
12 man: do 1 raid instance with 8 bosses, or two single-boss raid instance.
You have no shared crafting, no group harvesting, no working on guild hall or ships no spell research, etc.
REALITY CHECK
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Please elaborate what makes Vanguard generic bland world. There are hidden dungeons everywhere, towns, quest hubs.
Vanguard recieved since last year : new raid, level cap increase from 50 to 55, new class revamps, 16 unique looking mounts, new 3 ships - galleons, spell research, every one of the 15 classes recieved around 18 new spells and abilities that you can research following long quest lines.
Lotro since last year got 1 raid, 1 single boss raid, 1 zone and a couple of 3 man instances.
Amount of updates are favouring Vanguard.
You just admitted you never tried any of the Vanguard dungeons, yet you dare to call them they have less quality than Lotro - which pretty much sums up your ignorance towards other games and keep blindliy praising the one with ridiculous claims such as "Lotro PVE is the best" - while I say, Lotro PvE is average to the market standard at the moment.
About the Lotro tank & spank bosses. I said just because they throw out a few adds now and then and spawn a red glowing spot on ground you have to avoid, doesn't mean they are anything more. You said the final boss in GS have aoe and has to be kited. In fact it doesn't, with a solid tank, the boss is just another tank and spank boss. Just because almost every boss in game can be kited to make it easier is not really a perk, it's more or less an exploit used to make it a walk in the park.
REALITY CHECK
"Have never set foot in a VG dungeon but the designe philosophy seems again to be the opposite, I prefer smaller more story oriented dungeons that LotrO have tons off. 3-3"
This is what you just said. You never was in any Vanguard dungeon. I can hardly believe you ever played Vanguard and if you did, then never left the trial island.
Yet you still manage to make comparisons between those two ... from what : screenshots?, other people's opinions? What, you tell me. I did play Vanguard for 2 and a half year, and Lotro since the release until recently. I spent in both games in-game for 2-3 months pure /played time in total. You say, Lotro has better PvE than Vanguard yet you never was in Vanguard dungeon or you never left the trial island.
You kept calling me a troll for stating my opinion and my reasons why I left the game after years (lotro), yet you just managed to COMPARE IT with a game you never really played. Incredible.
REALITY CHECK
Papadam quote: "Big boring generic world vs a smaller detailed world. Its whatever you prefer."
Here you go, "boring generic world of Vanguard"
Vanguard:
Lotro:
Everyone can make his opinion here.
REALITY CHECK
I played Vanguard for 1 1/2 years and think its a good game. What tips the PvE gold medal to lotro, is the feel of the world and the story told. Lotro seems more immersive and alive, while Vanguard, yet big, is lifeless and bland. A good example is the mentioned player cities, which are nothing more than a couple of deserted stone buildings scattered around - Those "player cities" doesnt do Telon any favours immersive-vise.
While the Vanguard crafting is, for the lack of a better word, complex, the mini-game becomes dull and mindnumbing after a while. I like lotro's crafting better for this reason alone. mind-numbing<easy
The Lotro's race/class setup also beats Vanguard, in my book. While I do enjoy the classes in Vanguard, I hate many of the races, like the Vulmane, Kurashasa, Raki and specially the Vanguard dwarf. In lotro I just have problem with one class, but that is not because of game-play but rather from a fluff perspective.
The only "wins" I will give Vanguard is Exploration and Dungeons. All other PvE features, I personally, will give to Lotro; role-playing, story, quests, community, social features, crafting, graphics etc. As a big bonus to Lotro is that it seems to have a much brighter future with Turbines plans to take their Middle Earth all the way to Mordor.
You wanted to turn this into a LotrO vs Vanguard battle and I stated my opinions of the games and what experience I have with them and I think I did so in a mature and diplomatic way since I respect VG and understand why some people love it, but its not my cup of tea. You really dont think people can have a differnt opinion from yourself do you? You really think VG have got alot of content during its first 2.5 years? They got 1 big mini-expansion this year and its pretty much all. Next mini expansion seems to be another 6 months away.
Its funny how you flame LotrO for the radiance gating (which is getting revamped) over and over again and you claim other MMOs are miving away from this, can you please tell what Vanguard is like lvl 50-55?
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?&topic_id=51283
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I told you BesCirga. I told all of you. Its pointless.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
This is your post that was a reaction to mine. You called me a troll, because you couldn't stand someone else might have a different opinion.
If you are bringing up criticism of VG players for certain aspects, then here is a 700+ posts long thread where you actually posted on Lotro official forums and where people are very unhappy with the game currently.
http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396053
You said Vanguard has boring and blend world, I posted the screenshots you didn't react to. You said Lotro has better dungeon crawling than Vanguard, and then admitted you never was in any VG dungeon. Please react to that as well before moving on.
REALITY CHECK
It would be pointless if I tried to convice anyone, which im not
A world can't be defended by screenshots. Vanguard has a lifeless feel to it, which can't be felt through a screenshot.
Papadam was correct though in his assuption that Lotro's dungeons are smaller and more story to them. He guessed right...
This is your post that was a reaction to mine. You called me a troll, because you couldn't stand someone else might have a different opinion.
Eh what? Read my other posts.
If you are bringing up criticism of VG players for certain aspects, then here is a 700+ posts long thread where you actually posted on Lotro official forums and where people are very unhappy with the game currently.
http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396053
Eh what? I know people complaining about radiance and I agree to some extent and its getting revamped next week like Ive said many times. And you are flaming it over and over and praising VG when infact they have an even worse gating system at higher levels. Irony?
You said Vanguard has boring and blend world, I posted the screenshots you didn't react to. You said Lotro has better dungeon crawling than Vanguard, and then admitted you never was in any VG dungeon. Please react to that as well before moving on.
Eh what? Where did I say LotrO have better dungeon crawl than VG, I said they were different? And I think thoose screenshots speaks for themself.
heh I really have nothing more to say to you... just unbelievable!
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Please read again the whole thread. You reacted to my post eventho I didn't address anything to you. You called me a troll and a liar. Something which would probably most people turn off from any further conversation with you.
It was you who wanted to bring comparisons with AoC eventho we all know AoC doesn't excel in PvE either.
You then tried to compare dungeons and world in VG with Lotro, while you admitted in next sentence you never been in any of the VG dungeons, and until now you didn't explain how long did you actually play VG outside of trial island.
You said the only thing so far why do you think Lotro PvE is the best, which was that it allows end-game progression for solo and 3/6/12 manned groups. My comparison with Vanguard was again ignored. Radiance is getting revamped, but if you had notice I was talking about gating. Gating will still be present in SoM, only the way you obtain radiance will change to a small extent. This is something I already wrote before and I have to repeat myself because you keep responding with the same thing without reading what I wrote.
So far from the whole thread it is uncertain for anyone involved why Lotro PvE should be the best. Which is quite ridiculous statement by itself indeed. It is expected people will describe their opinions and experiences. When I did that, I got instantly flamed by you that Im a troll and a liar. Which in fact reflects your level of confidence and shows your ignorance towards other people's opinion. You should state your opinion why do you think it is best and not trying to flame/discredit me. I would never address anything to you, your opinion does not insult me. I expect the same from you.
I remember we used to have long discussions about 2 years ago when I was defending Lotro, and you were defending WoW. Incredibly as it sounds, the things have obviously changed. If you don't remember, I can dig it from my post history if you wish. I did enjoy Lotro for quite some time, until for me it was all messed up in MoM.
REALITY CHECK