I don't think people are necessarily against grouping, they are just against all the logistical problems of grouping. Waiting long periods for an invite, long travel times, not playing one of the ideal classes, not being able to switch to another class while LFP, no content to keep you occupied while you wait, not being able to leave a group when you want/need to, etc. Those are the problems that need to be addressed, and the answer isn't making it more "solo friendly". FFXI was group-dependent, but it wasn't group-friendly. For FFXIV, they need to keep the group dependency but make it more group friendly.
So instead of enjoying a great game because of it's content, graphics, style, etc you'll be at the mercy of the community (which tend to suck).
Over the past 7 years there are only two games I played that took up an substantial amount of time and both unfortunately have great graphics, content, style, etc and the thing that brought it down was the people I played with. One of them was FFXI ... and honestly It wasn't nearly as bad as my other game, but still a thorn in my side now and again. For the most part I avoided the bad people. Or even better I ridiculed and mocked the people I didn't like ... if you can believe poor little innocent me could do something like that O:-) ... (seriously there is no angel emote ... mmorpg.com ... you really do suck). I mean ... you play with the cards you are dealt and make the best of it. ... ... ... oh yeah that other game was called real life.
P.S. Does anyone else read the title of this thread and automatically get ACDC's Let there be Rock in their head? Or do i need to play less Rock Band?
My problem with FFXI was the mandatory grouping, but damn if it wasn't one of the best games I ever played. The combat stuck true to FF's menu-based formula, and in my opinion it worked, but seeing how the traditional series has shifted with it's combat; I expect a nuance to be in there that I like. As for how this one treats grouping, I can only hope that soloing is not as fruitless as it was in XI, by all means grouping should be more *fluid*, but in the last incarnation it was practically impossible to take on a like target for 50xp and keep going with any kind of useful speed.
Now for what I think everyone is misconstruing about the term "community based" as some link to "mandatory grouping" again, which I think the devs stated they are trying to keep from doing this time, take a look at the site for the game and you'll see something called Guildleves; they are collectible cards (in a sense) that contain a quest goal, and they can be used as you earn them to create your own quest content as a guild. In essence, guilds will be able to figure out thier own quest content, regardless of group size, and hand them out to members. Player-made content in a sense, and that is what they mean by "community based"... that, and maybe some craft stuff and trade/AH market stuff - FF was really community-driven in the last one.
I'm interested in going back to SWG to see how they did their similar "chronicles" quest-making.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I don't think people are necessarily against grouping, they are just against all the logistical problems of grouping. Waiting long periods for an invite, long travel times, not playing one of the ideal classes, not being able to switch to another class while LFP, no content to keep you occupied while you wait, not being able to leave a group when you want/need to, etc. Those are the problems that need to be addressed, and the answer isn't making it more "solo friendly". FFXI was group-dependent, but it wasn't group-friendly. For FFXIV, they need to keep the group dependency but make it more group friendly.
This.
basicly nailed it, they are learning from what things the people didnt like and fixing it.
as for adding solo content...its perfectly fine as long as its more of a "i only have like 20 mins today so il do a quick quest" or a "I'm LFP and bored so il knock out a quest while i wait" and not a primary or more efficent way of leveling.
as for adding solo content...its perfectly fine as long as its more of a "i only have like 20 mins today so il do a quick quest" or a "I'm LFP and bored so il knock out a quest while i wait" and not a primary or more efficent way of leveling.
A lot of that sitting waiting for a group could have been resolved (and mostly HAS been resolved). WIth the level sync, it was blown out of the water. I hardly ever waited for a group after that. If they let us LFP on multiple jobs at once (hard to code without taring apart the entire game atm), then I would NEVER have been looking for a group for more than 2 minutes.
FFXIV should require grouping on par with FFXI - if you take away that you destroy the game. You take away the problems players had with finding a group, not the necessity for grouping itself. Every memory I have in FFXI is a memory of a specific group. Wheather it was the time I was in an all-taru group that turned into my all-taru linkshell I loved. Or the first time my Taru Paladin got over 15k xp/hr with the 3 monks, bard, and red mage.
Grouping is the right way to go. Solo content should be there, and it should be fairly strong. But it should be only used while waiting for a group.
My problem with FFXI was the mandatory grouping, but damn if it wasn't one of the best games I ever played. The combat stuck true to FF's menu-based formula, and in my opinion it worked, but seeing how the traditional series has shifted with it's combat; I expect a nuance to be in there that I like. As for how this one treats grouping, I can only hope that soloing is not as fruitless as it was in XI, by all means grouping should be more *fluid*, but in the last incarnation it was practically impossible to take on a like target for 50xp and keep going with any kind of useful speed. Now for what I think everyone is misconstruing about the term "community based" as some link to "mandatory grouping" again, which I think the devs stated they are trying to keep from doing this time, take a look at the site for the game and you'll see something called Guildleves; they are collectible cards (in a sense) that contain a quest goal, and they can be used as you earn them to create your own quest content as a guild. In essence, guilds will be able to figure out thier own quest content, regardless of group size, and hand them out to members. Player-made content in a sense, and that is what they mean by "community based"... that, and maybe some craft stuff and trade/AH market stuff - FF was really community-driven in the last one. I'm interested in going back to SWG to see how they did their similar "chronicles" quest-making.
You must have quit a long time ago. They fixed solo, a lot. Anybody can now easily solo 4k xp/hr, which was the normal acceptable pickup group xp/hr.
Community based means a lot of things. From being almost forced into groups, linkshells, alliances, etc. To the fact that every item you find can be used in some sort of crafting. To the way the AH, Item Drop, Mobs, Leveling, Crafting, and world systems all center around the player.
FFXI has a true player-based econemy. You hardly sell anything to NPCs, and almost everything you pick up goes on the AH and is quickly bought by somebody. The money goes player to player, not player to NPC then NPC to player. That's a dumb way to do it. The more games I play, the more I realize how well designed FFXI was.
Comments
This.
Over the past 7 years there are only two games I played that took up an substantial amount of time and both unfortunately have great graphics, content, style, etc and the thing that brought it down was the people I played with. One of them was FFXI ... and honestly It wasn't nearly as bad as my other game, but still a thorn in my side now and again. For the most part I avoided the bad people. Or even better I ridiculed and mocked the people I didn't like ... if you can believe poor little innocent me could do something like that O:-) ... (seriously there is no angel emote ... mmorpg.com ... you really do suck). I mean ... you play with the cards you are dealt and make the best of it. ... ... ... oh yeah that other game was called real life.
P.S. Does anyone else read the title of this thread and automatically get ACDC's Let there be Rock in their head? Or do i need to play less Rock Band?
My problem with FFXI was the mandatory grouping, but damn if it wasn't one of the best games I ever played. The combat stuck true to FF's menu-based formula, and in my opinion it worked, but seeing how the traditional series has shifted with it's combat; I expect a nuance to be in there that I like. As for how this one treats grouping, I can only hope that soloing is not as fruitless as it was in XI, by all means grouping should be more *fluid*, but in the last incarnation it was practically impossible to take on a like target for 50xp and keep going with any kind of useful speed.
Now for what I think everyone is misconstruing about the term "community based" as some link to "mandatory grouping" again, which I think the devs stated they are trying to keep from doing this time, take a look at the site for the game and you'll see something called Guildleves; they are collectible cards (in a sense) that contain a quest goal, and they can be used as you earn them to create your own quest content as a guild. In essence, guilds will be able to figure out thier own quest content, regardless of group size, and hand them out to members. Player-made content in a sense, and that is what they mean by "community based"... that, and maybe some craft stuff and trade/AH market stuff - FF was really community-driven in the last one.
I'm interested in going back to SWG to see how they did their similar "chronicles" quest-making.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
This.
basicly nailed it, they are learning from what things the people didnt like and fixing it.
as for adding solo content...its perfectly fine as long as its more of a "i only have like 20 mins today so il do a quick quest" or a "I'm LFP and bored so il knock out a quest while i wait" and not a primary or more efficent way of leveling.
A lot of that sitting waiting for a group could have been resolved (and mostly HAS been resolved). WIth the level sync, it was blown out of the water. I hardly ever waited for a group after that. If they let us LFP on multiple jobs at once (hard to code without taring apart the entire game atm), then I would NEVER have been looking for a group for more than 2 minutes.
FFXIV should require grouping on par with FFXI - if you take away that you destroy the game. You take away the problems players had with finding a group, not the necessity for grouping itself. Every memory I have in FFXI is a memory of a specific group. Wheather it was the time I was in an all-taru group that turned into my all-taru linkshell I loved. Or the first time my Taru Paladin got over 15k xp/hr with the 3 monks, bard, and red mage.
Grouping is the right way to go. Solo content should be there, and it should be fairly strong. But it should be only used while waiting for a group.
You must have quit a long time ago. They fixed solo, a lot. Anybody can now easily solo 4k xp/hr, which was the normal acceptable pickup group xp/hr.
Community based means a lot of things. From being almost forced into groups, linkshells, alliances, etc. To the fact that every item you find can be used in some sort of crafting. To the way the AH, Item Drop, Mobs, Leveling, Crafting, and world systems all center around the player.
FFXI has a true player-based econemy. You hardly sell anything to NPCs, and almost everything you pick up goes on the AH and is quickly bought by somebody. The money goes player to player, not player to NPC then NPC to player. That's a dumb way to do it. The more games I play, the more I realize how well designed FFXI was.