I do agree with the above poster. Seriously, if everyone trolled the forums of the games they don't like, these forums would soon became loaded with bickering crap.
The immersion in LOTRO is excellent. Sure, they had to stray a bit from the Lore, but not to the point of losing all the credibility (flying mounts anyone?).
It seems to me that you don't like the game anymore. Fine, move along then. There are plenty of others games out there.I know a lot of people who still likes it, myself included. It is perfect? No for sure, but what game is?
For me one of the biggest pros of the PvE (since MoM) is that at end game there is now meanigfull content and progression for solo, 3 people, 6 people and 12-man raiding. I think that its pretty unique in MMOs and will be improved even more in SoM with the new skirmishes.
How is that unique or amazing? ? ?
There is meaningful content in most MMOs at end game.
Again as a game that is supposed to have amazing PvE, it would be nice for someone who knows about LOTROL to come on here and tell us what it is that makes it amazing........Come on it can't be that hard if it is so good.
I do agree with the above poster. Seriously, if everyone trolled the forums of the games they don't like, these forums would soon became loaded with bickering crap.
The immersion in LOTRO is excellent. Sure, they had to stray a bit from the Lore, but not to the point of losing all the credibility (flying mounts anyone?). It seems to me that you don't like the game anymore. Fine, move along then. There are plenty of others games out there.I know a lot of people who still likes it, myself included. It is perfect? No for sure, but what game is?
"The immersion in LOTRO is excellent" means nothing to anyone, how and what makes it excellent is of more interest.
It is not a matter of like or dislike, it has been touted around these forums that LOTRO has amazing PvE, this is not the first time i have heard it and would like to know what exacatly it is that makes it so special and no one has come up with anything, in fact it is by all indications just an average game.
In short, absolutely nothing. It's a myth. THe PvE is nothing extraordinary and there's far less content to do than in other games actually.
I hate to bring it up. But how many raids and instances did WoW got since Wotlk? Was it like 5 new raids? and 4 new instances? Lotro got 1 raid, and 2 instances since Moria. So much about the PvE content in Lotro. Damn I hate to use WoW as an argument against Lotro's PvE but I really fail to see the brilliance of it. I did play Lotro for almost 3 years (because of the lore) and I always considered the game to have sub-par PvE in compare to (Vanguard, EQ2, AC, ...) Now they even took away the lore (mages, free goats as mounts for everyone, captain ghosts allies, LM with panther pet and bog-lurker, raid full of aliens, giant turtle - stronger boss than balrog in rift...)
Are you applying that quanity is quality? It sure sounds like it...
For me the quality in lotro's PvE is the "wall of text", which is simply brilliant (the Shire is a good example of this). The story and dialogs of the quests are top-notch and fits perfectly into the lotro lore (if you ignore Mines of Moria).
What I can agree that Volume II of the epic story is somewhat bland and meh (V2B4 is horrible!), and the end-content is not to my liking, but other than that, leveling from level 1-55ish is a joyment in RPG heaven. It sure as hell beats AoC/EQ2/Vanguard/WoW, which each and everyone is a lackluster when it comes to creating a compelling story.
I should note that I am not playing lotro anymore because of LIs and Radiance end content grind. Im hoping SoM will be a step in the right direction in getting rid of both these plague-ridden features.
Its sad to see you turn into a simple troll Thillian, if you dont like the game then maybe you should move on with your lifef instead of spreading lies and personal opinions as if they were facts. You dont like the PvE in LotrO, fine! no ones is holding a gun to your head... WoW got update 3.1 and 3.2 since Wotlk and about to release (or just did) 3.3. Compare to LotrO which got book 7 and 8 + now Siege of Mirkwood next week. Book 7 Added a new region, 6 solo instances, 1 group instance and the turtle raid Book 8 Added 1 new raid and 3 group dungeons SoM adds 1 new region, 1 new raid, 4 new group dungeons and 13 skirmish instances.
Someone who calls someone else a troll is usually a troll. I never bothered to call you a fanboy for blindly praising everything in the game despite all the criticism on the official forums.
I stated my opinion why I think the PvE in Lotro is lacking in compare to the competition. I did play all Turbine's games - Lotro for 3 years, I did play Asheron's Call 2 for 3 years, I did play DDo for a year and half, and I also played Asheron's Call 1 where I even ocassionally subscribe now and then. If this makes me a troll, then hell to it, I'm a troll. Report me and hope the moderators will remove my posts if they find them inappropriate.
Everybody who plays the game knows your post is a laugh. 6 new instances? You mean the crafting instances which takes solo 20 minutes and have no bosses, no loot, and it's just basically an instanced space to not fight over nodes with someone else.
Raid instance is you mentioned is a single raid boss. Giant turtle is not a raid, it's rushed up 12-man critter that for some reason has more power than Balrog in Rift. It's one room with one oversized turtle with only one strategy - to kill it as fast as possible before it starts dealing massive AoE damage everyone around. And again 3 new instances in Book 8 added 30-40 minute instances for 3 people. Not fully functional dungeon with lots of bosses.
SoM does not add anything yet, it hasnt been released. Furthermore it's a paid expansion.
Book 7: lorien was first announced to be shipped as part of the Moria. Just because they couldn't pull it on time, and then hassled it up as part of the book "free" update doesn't mean it's a new addition.
I can't understand why do you see a clear and linear progression a bonus for the game. Gating and radiance did not mean there's more content, you just need to follow up artificial progression. Where all games are abandoning this system, Turbine implemented it, so it makes it look like there's more PvE content. But it isn't. There is still just one end-game multi-boss raid instance and a half-dozen 6 man instances. No matter in what order you need to do it, it's still far less than any game out there on market I can think of.
For me one of the biggest pros of the PvE (since MoM) is that at end game there is now meanigfull content and progression for solo, 3 people, 6 people and 12-man raiding. I think that its pretty unique in MMOs and will be improved even more in SoM with the new skirmishes.
How is that unique or amazing? ? ?
There is meaningful content in most MMOs at end game.
Again as a game that is supposed to have amazing PvE, it would be nice for someone who knows about LOTROL to come on here and tell us what it is that makes it amazing........Come on it can't be that hard if it is so good.
It is not. Moria instances are tank and spank. Sure they have a couple of "phases" when they throw out some adds, but that's it. Anything more complicated Turbine ever tried was bugged and not fixed until now. People still post videos where they solo-ed certain bosses using an exploit, and there's still a raid lock exploit - which Turbine wasn't able to fix even after a year. There's no quantity, and there's no quality.
Lotro's PvE quality is undebatable. It is very well created and written. But, if you just click past the "wall of text" and then mindless run after your quest arrow, it will not be better than your next AAA MMORPG title.
Other than that, I generally agree with you Thillian. Lotro's development after SoA has been for the worse. Lets just hope they learn from their mistakes and pick up the "fluff-pen" and SoA style again and keep it steady towards Mordor
Lotro's PvE quality is undebatable. It is very well created and written. But, if you just click past the "wall of text" and then mindless run after your quest arrow, it will not be better than your next AAA MMORPG title. Other than that, I generally agree with you Thillian. Lotro's development after SoA has been for the worse. Lets just hope they learn from their mistakes and pick up the "fluff-pen" and SoA style again and keep it steady towards Mordor
I can agree with you too, there was some solid quests in SoA era. I was mainly talking about the MoM.
Given all the lore-breaking changes they added in MoM after they made promises "LM is as far as we go magic-wise" then they added a mage class, ridable goats, free goats for everyone, goats here goats there, ...captain goat (I mean ghost) ally, LM panther pet and bog-lurker, zone full of aliens, alien instances, I wouldn't believe they won't go even further later on. SoA era is gone, they squeezed their previous fans with cheap lifetime offer (similiar to Hellgate lifetime *cough) , and now they are searching for new market. That's why the ridiculous gating came in and the lore breaking additions.
Think it is just a quality game, created by one "the" if not the best mmo only developer left. What they have done with LotRO is amazing. The continously adding an actual story that will leads down a road of the unkown, is like playing in a movie. Conent from character development to costumization is getting better , and will grow like most aspects of the game. The fact that this is a Turbine title, pretty much sums up the quality.
LMAO you even edited that post? It must've been really bad before...
But ya, the game rocks, Turbine is always on the cutting edge of adding different features and perfecting their game. The game is already huge with tons of content available. We aren't even halfway through the story yet either.
I can only tell you why I feel its the best PvE to be had in an mmo. However i also want to warn any reader of this thread, there is a particular poster here that is EXTREMELY jaded, and is infinity prone to exaggeration and lies, or perhaps its just ignorance. Not to mention, confusing his personal petty nitpicks with opinion of the majority.
LOTRO has some of the best story lines, they are well written, engaging, and at times read like a series of short stories about the area you are in. They add great flavor to the zone, or town and its peoples you are meeting, and the back story of the place you are in. The progression has many paths to it (not talking about epic quest line at this point) there are quite frankly more quests (Not including Kill X) than you can possibly do before you out level them. This adds to the fun of playing an alt, and going a different way this time. There is always a new path you can take to advance, and meet your personal goals. Crafting has always been more complete and balanced than in any other MMO, as turbine likes to fill in the gaps of various loot drops in the players level range with crafted things, keeping all items viable.Of course raiding gear is the best in the game, but that does not matter, because it in no way means that all other gear from all other sources are junk and worthless (As some extremists that hate fun would have you think), and you can't still have a great experiences. Its is absolooty possible to find things to do and advance with out raid gear and you will stall have a good time.
The instance work Turbine does it top notch, from mobs crashing threw walls, to entire scenes acted out in front of you, they do not simply use scripting as a tool, they have very much refined it as an art form. Most instances, those in the epic quest line, or standalone, are very well done in terms of telling a story. Quite the opposite of other games were you realize, this instance is really just here for you to get loot, and the background story they made is just a vain attempt to validate that.
Exploration is very high, and you will be rewarded by the time the world builders have taken to really make the world feel alive and lived in. The details here and there are higher than any other MMO I have played. One of the most compelling features is the games draw distance, i still to this day, see silhouettes of things in the distance, that spurs me onto my own adventure to see what it is up close.
Players are EXTREMELY customizable in this game, especially in the case of visuals, and for the fluff lovers out there, there are a large number of cosmetics and items you can adventure for if you like. I never see any two players that look alike, and as far as builds go, the only players that are clones are raiders... but such is the life of raiding.
Place an extremely well crafted world, beautiful visuals, awesomely scripted instances, and a huge epic quest line (Where most of the games instances are) on top of a HIGHLY refined combat system, and loads of "Quality of life" features. Top it all off with one of the best values for the money, and that the developer puts out more quality content, most times free, than any other developer. And you have one of the best PvE experiences in any MMO title.
EDIT: Spellinz, and words.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
'Durin's Stone is a treasure of the dwarves. It is in that spot, staring into the Mirrormere, that Durin decided to settle here and build Khazad-dûm. The Stone serves as an eternal reminder to all dwarves of what is rightfully ours.
'I fear for the safety of Durin's Stone. The Orcs spewing forth from Moria have set up a camp around it, and daily I see several of them working on reducing it to dust. This cannot be allowed to happen.
'Head to Uruk-gashan, south-east of here, and defeat the Orc-sappers around the camp. They are the ones with the knowledge to reduce the stone to dust and are the greatest threat to our ancient monument.Orc Sappers 0/8'
This is one of the quests. Next part of the chain:
'You stopped the Orc-sappers, (your name), but I fear you were too late. It is not your fault. I should have gone myself as soon as I saw them. Although Durin's Stone has been saved, severe damage has been done.
'While they were preparing to destroy the stone, they chipped off many pieces. It has been defaced and made the fool of. There is but one course of action for us to take: we must reclaim what is left.
'Head south again, back to Uruk-gashan and search for the broken off bits and pieces of Durin's Stone. Gather up what you find and bring the pieces back here. At the very least we can salvage those, and perhaps one day, make the stone whole again. Stones collected 0/8'
And the final part:
'You have done everything I have asked, (your name), and I thank you for that, but we are not yet done. The audacity of these fiends amazes me. It is not enough that we have cast down their sappers, nor gathered up what they attempted to destroy. They persist!
'One Orc in particular is leading the entire throng. I will die before I see him succeed in tearing down what remains. This must end here and now.
'Return south, to Uruk-gashan and defeat Istash. Durin's stone will never be safe so long as that foul Orc still walks among the living. Istash killed 0/1"
3 quests chainline. You fight in the same zone, first you are sent to kill 3 sappers, then to collect 8 stones in the same area, and then finally to kill a boss, again in the same area. Please tell me how does the quest description differs from the usual wall of text style in other MMO's. You can find more quest descriptions here: www.lotro.mmodb.com if you feel I wasn't fair and picked a crappy quest.
For me one of the biggest pros of the PvE (since MoM) is that at end game there is now meanigfull content and progression for solo, 3 people, 6 people and 12-man raiding. I think that its pretty unique in MMOs and will be improved even more in SoM with the new skirmishes.
How is that unique or amazing? ? ?
There is meaningful content in most MMOs at end game.
Again as a game that is supposed to have amazing PvE, it would be nice for someone who knows about LOTROL to come on here and tell us what it is that makes it amazing........Come on it can't be that hard if it is so good.
So what kind of meaningfull end game content and progression does AoC (or whatever you are playing) have for solo, 3 -man, 6 man and 12-man?
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Whining about the radiance gating in MoM now is pretty stupid since the devs have already stated that the system was poorly implemented. It was a good idea with good intensions imo but the way it was designed was terribly flawed. Im happy its getting revamped next week
And about tank/spank. I cant think of an end boss in any of the lvl 60 instnances in Moria. DD: No, FG: No, Forges: no, 16th: no, GS: no, Skumfil: No, Watcher: no, DN: no and so on...
.. most of the SoA fights were Tank/spank thou.
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Whining about the radiance gating in MoM now is pretty stupid since the devs have already stated that the system was poorly implemented. It was a good idea with good intensions imo but the way it was designed was terribly flawed. Im happy its getting revamped next week And about tank/spank. I cant think of an end boss in any of the lvl 60 instnances in Moria. DD: No, FG: No, Forges: no, 16th: no, GS: no, Skumfil: No, Watcher: no, DN: no and so on... .. most of the SoA fights were Tank/spank thou.
Please find me a link or quote a dev when they stated the radiance was poorly implemented.
They are not removing it, they just make it different. It's still gonna be a gating content however.
All bosses are tank and spank. Just because they throw from time to time a red glowing hot spot on the ground you have to avoid, or when they spawn a couple of adds means it's not something more complicated.
Grand Stair:
1st boss: tank and spank, boss occasionally knockbacks
2nd boss: Spawns 3 wargs during combat, tank and spank
3rd boss: spawns a few fire things, and red spot on gruond you have to avoid, otherwise tank and spank
final boss: spawn 2 adds that has to be kept alive during the fight (he spawns another 2), otherwise tank and sprank
Forges:
1st boss: Tank and spank that spawns 2 waves of 3 mobs, and hurls a fire spot on ground that must be avioded.
2nd boss: Lots of adds first to kill to spawn the goblin boss, then just tank and spank while having 2 trolls alive.
3 boss: tank and spank with fire sprouting from the wall that must be avoided
final boss: Tank and spank that spawns 2 waves of 2 trolls and 1 wave of 1 troll.
executive producer don't have to know all the lore from the IP he's leading. It's not him who writes the story in the game. And I'm pretty sure a few, really few players knows that Legolas was the prince...
It is an obscure question for most. But the key thing he did say in his response was "But I know people who do know", and considering his job this is all he should be concerned about.
Its a petty thing to bring up anyway. The reviewer didn't even know the answer.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Whining about the radiance gating in MoM now is pretty stupid since the devs have already stated that the system was poorly implemented. It was a good idea with good intensions imo but the way it was designed was terribly flawed. Im happy its getting revamped next week And about tank/spank. I cant think of an end boss in any of the lvl 60 instnances in Moria. DD: No, FG: No, Forges: no, 16th: no, GS: no, Skumfil: No, Watcher: no, DN: no and so on... .. most of the SoA fights were Tank/spank thou.
Please find me a link or quote a dev when they stated the radiance was poorly implemented.
They are not removing it, they just make it different. It's still gonna be a gating content however.
All bosses are tank and spank. Just because they throw from time to time a red glowing hot spot on the ground you have to avoid, or when they spawn a couple of adds means it's not something more complicated.
Grand Stair:
1st boss: tank and spank, boss occasionally knockbacks
2nd boss: Spawns 3 wargs during combat, tank and spank
3rd boss: spawns a few fire things, and red spot on gruond you have to avoid, otherwise tank and spank
final boss: spawn 2 adds that has to be kept alive during the fight (he spawns another 2), otherwise tank and sprank
Forges:
1st boss: Tank and spank that spawns 2 waves of 3 mobs, and hurls a fire spot on ground that must be avioded.
2nd boss: Lots of adds first to kill to spawn the goblin boss, then just tank and spank while having 2 trolls alive.
3 boss: tank and spank with fire sprouting from the wall that must be avoided
final boss: Tank and spank that spawns 2 waves of 2 trolls and 1 wave of 1 troll.
Want me to continue?
You certainly have a point, LOTRO isn't perfect, but it is the best out there. Your other options are quite limited as far as quality RP PVE experiences go. Plus this game is going to be so much better after Dec 1. Tons of more playing options with skirmishes, the combat fix, this game will keep getting better and better.
The Steefel interview wouldnt concern me at all, if we wouldnt encounter all the silly lore-breaking additions we saw since Moria:
Mages casting lightning bolts and hurling fireballs.
Ridable goats.
Huge Turtle, which is stronger than Balrog
Alien-like creatures that occupies a large zone in Moria and the only end-game raid currently is full of them
Loremaster's panther and bog-lurker pet
Captain's ghost ally
None of this was before in SoA. In Moria now you basically dwarves in robes riding goats around casting fireballs. There was 5 mages in total in Middle Earth: Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Pallando, and Alatar. And they weren't the classic generic mages as we know them from D&D. They were mostly fighters, and used magic rather for scrying and divinations.
It is hard to RP in an environment such as this, and it's hard to PvE in 1 raid and half a dozen 6-man instances full of explots and/or tank & spank bosses.
The Steefel interview wouldnt concern me at all, if we wouldnt encounter all the silly lore-breaking additions we saw since Moria:
Mages casting lightning bolts and hurling fireballs. Ridable goats. Huge Turtle, which is stronger than Balrog Alien-like creatures that occupies a large zone in Moria and the only end-game raid currently is full of them Loremaster's panther and bog-lurker pet Captain's ghost ally
None of this was before in SoA. In Moria now you basically dwarves in robes riding goats around casting fireballs. There was 5 mages in total in Middle Earth: Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Pallando, and Alatar. And they weren't the classic generic mages as we know them from D&D. They were mostly fighters, and used magic rather for scrying and divinations. It is hard to RP in an environment such as this, and it's hard to PvE in 1 raid and half a dozen 6-man instances full of explots and/or tank & spank bosses.
Semantics, its a MMO GAME. They also did not poop out horses in the books.
Captains gohst, panther, bog-lurker and the unseen are very much in keeping with he lore, granted it is turbine filling in the gaps on things that were not fully fleshed out in the books, but it is all approved by Tolkien and the lore masters stafeel has hired.. You need to stop speaking on this topic.
It was petty to begin with.
You can seem to stay on topic to save your life.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Am I the only one who enjoys the good ol' not-so-scripted, full random, spank and tank bosses?
@Thillian: to comment on your quest example, you pulled out a level 58ish? quest where I didnt enjoy the area it occour in. The quest it self is fair enough, nothing special. But, thats not the correct way to see it, imo. It is not just one quest per it self, but rather the story that unfolds in each area. When you have complete a series of quests and then look back to see how the various quests were connected. This is how I feel anyway.
Not in my entire MMO history have I seen a bigger up-roar against a specific feature like radiance has on offical forums. It has not been a success. The end content in lotro without Radiance would not be any less, it would just be more accessable to the playerbase.
What MoM took to the ditch for me:
Cafting
Casual enjoyment
End Game. (a non-raider, hater of dailys, and again my former end game content was crafting, but I can't stand repeating singing to trees to pay for recipes)
Whining about the radiance gating in MoM now is pretty stupid since the devs have already stated that the system was poorly implemented. It was a good idea with good intensions imo but the way it was designed was terribly flawed. Im happy its getting revamped next week And about tank/spank. I cant think of an end boss in any of the lvl 60 instnances in Moria. DD: No, FG: No, Forges: no, 16th: no, GS: no, Skumfil: No, Watcher: no, DN: no and so on... .. most of the SoA fights were Tank/spank thou.
Please find me a link or quote a dev when they stated the radiance was poorly implemented.
First, i think the fact that they changed system in book 7 and now revamping it in SoM is an indication that they didnt like how radiance was implemented, and you can also read Orions blog
They are not removing it, they just make it different. It's still gonna be a gating content however.
I said revamping it, no reason to remove it since the idea is good imo, the entire game is build on gating content so I dont understand why there cant be some progression at "end-game". Still I think it was a bad idea to have it tied to gear, should have been traits or something instead.
All bosses are tank and spank. Just because they throw from time to time a red glowing hot spot on the ground you have to avoid, or when they spawn a couple of adds means it's not something more complicated.
Since I said end bosses Ill just adress thoose. Funny you picked the easiest fights
Grand Stair:
final boss: spawn 2 adds that has to be kept alive during the fight (he spawns another 2), otherwise tank and sprank
The boss spawn 3 adds, 2 archers who respawn (can be mezzed) and the Devoted who you can kill and have random aggro (very annoying), the boos also have a nasty AoE attack which can almost oneshot squishys. So not just tank/spank but whatever!
Forges:
final boss: Tank and spank that spawns 2 waves of 2 trolls and 1 wave of 1 troll.
Every wave can spawn 1-2 trolls and they have knock back (can be mezzed) You also forgot to mention that in the last phase the boss starts the forge so the entire group must move around to avoid the fire, can get troll adds in this phase too. So again, not just tank/spank. Fun dungeon!
Want me to continue?
Yes please do, I enjoy this
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
The Steefel interview wouldnt concern me at all, if we wouldnt encounter all the silly lore-breaking additions we saw since Moria:
Mages casting lightning bolts and hurling fireballs. Ridable goats. Huge Turtle, which is stronger than Balrog Alien-like creatures that occupies a large zone in Moria and the only end-game raid currently is full of them Loremaster's panther and bog-lurker pet Captain's ghost ally
None of this was before in SoA. In Moria now you basically dwarves in robes riding goats around casting fireballs. There was 5 mages in total in Middle Earth: Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Pallando, and Alatar. And they weren't the classic generic mages as we know them from D&D. They were mostly fighters, and used magic rather for scrying and divinations. It is hard to RP in an environment such as this, and it's hard to PvE in 1 raid and half a dozen 6-man instances full of explots and/or tank & spank bosses.
Semantics, its a MMO GAME. They also did not poop out horses in the books.
Captains gohst, panther, bog-lurker and the unseen are very much in keeping with he lore, granted it is turbine filling in the gaps on things that were not fully fleshed out in the books, but it is all approved by Tolkien and the lore masters stafeel has hired.. You need to stop speaking on this topic.
It was petty to begin with.
You can seem to stay on topic to save your life.
You really need to stop making comments like this. They dont do you any favours...
Comments
I do agree with the above poster. Seriously, if everyone trolled the forums of the games they don't like, these forums would soon became loaded with bickering crap.
The immersion in LOTRO is excellent. Sure, they had to stray a bit from the Lore, but not to the point of losing all the credibility (flying mounts anyone?).
It seems to me that you don't like the game anymore. Fine, move along then. There are plenty of others games out there.I know a lot of people who still likes it, myself included. It is perfect? No for sure, but what game is?
How is that unique or amazing? ? ?
There is meaningful content in most MMOs at end game.
Again as a game that is supposed to have amazing PvE, it would be nice for someone who knows about LOTROL to come on here and tell us what it is that makes it amazing........Come on it can't be that hard if it is so good.
"The immersion in LOTRO is excellent" means nothing to anyone, how and what makes it excellent is of more interest.
It is not a matter of like or dislike, it has been touted around these forums that LOTRO has amazing PvE, this is not the first time i have heard it and would like to know what exacatly it is that makes it so special and no one has come up with anything, in fact it is by all indications just an average game.
Are you applying that quanity is quality? It sure sounds like it...
For me the quality in lotro's PvE is the "wall of text", which is simply brilliant (the Shire is a good example of this). The story and dialogs of the quests are top-notch and fits perfectly into the lotro lore (if you ignore Mines of Moria).
What I can agree that Volume II of the epic story is somewhat bland and meh (V2B4 is horrible!), and the end-content is not to my liking, but other than that, leveling from level 1-55ish is a joyment in RPG heaven. It sure as hell beats AoC/EQ2/Vanguard/WoW, which each and everyone is a lackluster when it comes to creating a compelling story.
I should note that I am not playing lotro anymore because of LIs and Radiance end content grind. Im hoping SoM will be a step in the right direction in getting rid of both these plague-ridden features.
Someone who calls someone else a troll is usually a troll. I never bothered to call you a fanboy for blindly praising everything in the game despite all the criticism on the official forums.
I stated my opinion why I think the PvE in Lotro is lacking in compare to the competition. I did play all Turbine's games - Lotro for 3 years, I did play Asheron's Call 2 for 3 years, I did play DDo for a year and half, and I also played Asheron's Call 1 where I even ocassionally subscribe now and then. If this makes me a troll, then hell to it, I'm a troll. Report me and hope the moderators will remove my posts if they find them inappropriate.
Everybody who plays the game knows your post is a laugh. 6 new instances? You mean the crafting instances which takes solo 20 minutes and have no bosses, no loot, and it's just basically an instanced space to not fight over nodes with someone else.
Raid instance is you mentioned is a single raid boss. Giant turtle is not a raid, it's rushed up 12-man critter that for some reason has more power than Balrog in Rift. It's one room with one oversized turtle with only one strategy - to kill it as fast as possible before it starts dealing massive AoE damage everyone around. And again 3 new instances in Book 8 added 30-40 minute instances for 3 people. Not fully functional dungeon with lots of bosses.
SoM does not add anything yet, it hasnt been released. Furthermore it's a paid expansion.
Book 7: lorien was first announced to be shipped as part of the Moria. Just because they couldn't pull it on time, and then hassled it up as part of the book "free" update doesn't mean it's a new addition.
I can't understand why do you see a clear and linear progression a bonus for the game. Gating and radiance did not mean there's more content, you just need to follow up artificial progression. Where all games are abandoning this system, Turbine implemented it, so it makes it look like there's more PvE content. But it isn't. There is still just one end-game multi-boss raid instance and a half-dozen 6 man instances. No matter in what order you need to do it, it's still far less than any game out there on market I can think of.
REALITY CHECK
How is that unique or amazing? ? ?
There is meaningful content in most MMOs at end game.
Again as a game that is supposed to have amazing PvE, it would be nice for someone who knows about LOTROL to come on here and tell us what it is that makes it amazing........Come on it can't be that hard if it is so good.
It is not. Moria instances are tank and spank. Sure they have a couple of "phases" when they throw out some adds, but that's it. Anything more complicated Turbine ever tried was bugged and not fixed until now. People still post videos where they solo-ed certain bosses using an exploit, and there's still a raid lock exploit - which Turbine wasn't able to fix even after a year. There's no quantity, and there's no quality.
REALITY CHECK
Lotro's PvE quality is undebatable. It is very well created and written. But, if you just click past the "wall of text" and then mindless run after your quest arrow, it will not be better than your next AAA MMORPG title.
Other than that, I generally agree with you Thillian. Lotro's development after SoA has been for the worse. Lets just hope they learn from their mistakes and pick up the "fluff-pen" and SoA style again and keep it steady towards Mordor
I can agree with you too, there was some solid quests in SoA era. I was mainly talking about the MoM.
Given all the lore-breaking changes they added in MoM after they made promises "LM is as far as we go magic-wise" then they added a mage class, ridable goats, free goats for everyone, goats here goats there, ...captain goat (I mean ghost) ally, LM panther pet and bog-lurker, zone full of aliens, alien instances, I wouldn't believe they won't go even further later on. SoA era is gone, they squeezed their previous fans with cheap lifetime offer (similiar to Hellgate lifetime *cough) , and now they are searching for new market. That's why the ridiculous gating came in and the lore breaking additions.
REALITY CHECK
LMAO you even edited that post? It must've been really bad before...
But ya, the game rocks, Turbine is always on the cutting edge of adding different features and perfecting their game. The game is already huge with tons of content available. We aren't even halfway through the story yet either.
If you want to read the critique on official forums so you don't get a wrong impression that it's just me fightning a horde of fans:
U.S. discussion about MoM PvE & lore changes: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=269045
E.U.: http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396053
REALITY CHECK
I can only tell you why I feel its the best PvE to be had in an mmo. However i also want to warn any reader of this thread, there is a particular poster here that is EXTREMELY jaded, and is infinity prone to exaggeration and lies, or perhaps its just ignorance. Not to mention, confusing his personal petty nitpicks with opinion of the majority.
LOTRO has some of the best story lines, they are well written, engaging, and at times read like a series of short stories about the area you are in. They add great flavor to the zone, or town and its peoples you are meeting, and the back story of the place you are in. The progression has many paths to it (not talking about epic quest line at this point) there are quite frankly more quests (Not including Kill X) than you can possibly do before you out level them. This adds to the fun of playing an alt, and going a different way this time. There is always a new path you can take to advance, and meet your personal goals. Crafting has always been more complete and balanced than in any other MMO, as turbine likes to fill in the gaps of various loot drops in the players level range with crafted things, keeping all items viable.Of course raiding gear is the best in the game, but that does not matter, because it in no way means that all other gear from all other sources are junk and worthless (As some extremists that hate fun would have you think), and you can't still have a great experiences. Its is absolooty possible to find things to do and advance with out raid gear and you will stall have a good time.
The instance work Turbine does it top notch, from mobs crashing threw walls, to entire scenes acted out in front of you, they do not simply use scripting as a tool, they have very much refined it as an art form. Most instances, those in the epic quest line, or standalone, are very well done in terms of telling a story. Quite the opposite of other games were you realize, this instance is really just here for you to get loot, and the background story they made is just a vain attempt to validate that.
Exploration is very high, and you will be rewarded by the time the world builders have taken to really make the world feel alive and lived in. The details here and there are higher than any other MMO I have played. One of the most compelling features is the games draw distance, i still to this day, see silhouettes of things in the distance, that spurs me onto my own adventure to see what it is up close.
Players are EXTREMELY customizable in this game, especially in the case of visuals, and for the fluff lovers out there, there are a large number of cosmetics and items you can adventure for if you like. I never see any two players that look alike, and as far as builds go, the only players that are clones are raiders... but such is the life of raiding.
Place an extremely well crafted world, beautiful visuals, awesomely scripted instances, and a huge epic quest line (Where most of the games instances are) on top of a HIGHLY refined combat system, and loads of "Quality of life" features. Top it all off with one of the best values for the money, and that the developer puts out more quality content, most times free, than any other developer. And you have one of the best PvE experiences in any MMO title.
EDIT: Spellinz, and words.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
'Durin's Stone is a treasure of the dwarves. It is in that spot, staring into the Mirrormere, that Durin decided to settle here and build Khazad-dûm. The Stone serves as an eternal reminder to all dwarves of what is rightfully ours.
'I fear for the safety of Durin's Stone. The Orcs spewing forth from Moria have set up a camp around it, and daily I see several of them working on reducing it to dust. This cannot be allowed to happen.
'Head to Uruk-gashan, south-east of here, and defeat the Orc-sappers around the camp. They are the ones with the knowledge to reduce the stone to dust and are the greatest threat to our ancient monument. Orc Sappers 0/8'
This is one of the quests. Next part of the chain:
'You stopped the Orc-sappers, (your name), but I fear you were too late. It is not your fault. I should have gone myself as soon as I saw them. Although Durin's Stone has been saved, severe damage has been done.
'While they were preparing to destroy the stone, they chipped off many pieces. It has been defaced and made the fool of. There is but one course of action for us to take: we must reclaim what is left.
'Head south again, back to Uruk-gashan and search for the broken off bits and pieces of Durin's Stone. Gather up what you find and bring the pieces back here. At the very least we can salvage those, and perhaps one day, make the stone whole again. Stones collected 0/8'
And the final part:
'You have done everything I have asked, (your name), and I thank you for that, but we are not yet done. The audacity of these fiends amazes me. It is not enough that we have cast down their sappers, nor gathered up what they attempted to destroy. They persist!
'One Orc in particular is leading the entire throng. I will die before I see him succeed in tearing down what remains. This must end here and now.
'Return south, to Uruk-gashan and defeat Istash. Durin's stone will never be safe so long as that foul Orc still walks among the living. Istash killed 0/1"
3 quests chainline. You fight in the same zone, first you are sent to kill 3 sappers, then to collect 8 stones in the same area, and then finally to kill a boss, again in the same area. Please tell me how does the quest description differs from the usual wall of text style in other MMO's. You can find more quest descriptions here: www.lotro.mmodb.com if you feel I wasn't fair and picked a crappy quest.
REALITY CHECK
How is that unique or amazing? ? ?
There is meaningful content in most MMOs at end game.
Again as a game that is supposed to have amazing PvE, it would be nice for someone who knows about LOTROL to come on here and tell us what it is that makes it amazing........Come on it can't be that hard if it is so good.
So what kind of meaningfull end game content and progression does AoC (or whatever you are playing) have for solo, 3 -man, 6 man and 12-man?
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Some, can't see the forest for the trees.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Whining about the radiance gating in MoM now is pretty stupid since the devs have already stated that the system was poorly implemented. It was a good idea with good intensions imo but the way it was designed was terribly flawed. Im happy its getting revamped next week
And about tank/spank. I cant think of an end boss in any of the lvl 60 instnances in Moria. DD: No, FG: No, Forges: no, 16th: no, GS: no, Skumfil: No, Watcher: no, DN: no and so on...
.. most of the SoA fights were Tank/spank thou.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
executive producer don't have to know all the lore from the IP he's leading. It's not him who writes the story in the game.
And I'm pretty sure a few, really few players knows that Legolas was the prince...
LOTRO player
Please find me a link or quote a dev when they stated the radiance was poorly implemented.
They are not removing it, they just make it different. It's still gonna be a gating content however.
All bosses are tank and spank. Just because they throw from time to time a red glowing hot spot on the ground you have to avoid, or when they spawn a couple of adds means it's not something more complicated.
Grand Stair:
Forges:
Want me to continue?
REALITY CHECK
It is an obscure question for most. But the key thing he did say in his response was "But I know people who do know", and considering his job this is all he should be concerned about.
Its a petty thing to bring up anyway. The reviewer didn't even know the answer.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Please find me a link or quote a dev when they stated the radiance was poorly implemented.
They are not removing it, they just make it different. It's still gonna be a gating content however.
All bosses are tank and spank. Just because they throw from time to time a red glowing hot spot on the ground you have to avoid, or when they spawn a couple of adds means it's not something more complicated.
Grand Stair:
Forges:
Want me to continue?
You certainly have a point, LOTRO isn't perfect, but it is the best out there. Your other options are quite limited as far as quality RP PVE experiences go. Plus this game is going to be so much better after Dec 1. Tons of more playing options with skirmishes, the combat fix, this game will keep getting better and better.
The Steefel interview wouldnt concern me at all, if we wouldnt encounter all the silly lore-breaking additions we saw since Moria:
None of this was before in SoA. In Moria now you basically dwarves in robes riding goats around casting fireballs. There was 5 mages in total in Middle Earth: Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Pallando, and Alatar. And they weren't the classic generic mages as we know them from D&D. They were mostly fighters, and used magic rather for scrying and divinations.
It is hard to RP in an environment such as this, and it's hard to PvE in 1 raid and half a dozen 6-man instances full of explots and/or tank & spank bosses.
REALITY CHECK
Semantics, its a MMO GAME. They also did not poop out horses in the books.
Captains gohst, panther, bog-lurker and the unseen are very much in keeping with he lore, granted it is turbine filling in the gaps on things that were not fully fleshed out in the books, but it is all approved by Tolkien and the lore masters stafeel has hired.. You need to stop speaking on this topic.
It was petty to begin with.
You can seem to stay on topic to save your life.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Am I the only one who enjoys the good ol' not-so-scripted, full random, spank and tank bosses?
@Thillian: to comment on your quest example, you pulled out a level 58ish? quest where I didnt enjoy the area it occour in. The quest it self is fair enough, nothing special. But, thats not the correct way to see it, imo. It is not just one quest per it self, but rather the story that unfolds in each area. When you have complete a series of quests and then look back to see how the various quests were connected. This is how I feel anyway.
Not in my entire MMO history have I seen a bigger up-roar against a specific feature like radiance has on offical forums. It has not been a success. The end content in lotro without Radiance would not be any less, it would just be more accessable to the playerbase.
What MoM took to the ditch for me:
I am crossing my fingers for SoM and beyond!
Please find me a link or quote a dev when they stated the radiance was poorly implemented.
First, i think the fact that they changed system in book 7 and now revamping it in SoM is an indication that they didnt like how radiance was implemented, and you can also read Orions blog
They are not removing it, they just make it different. It's still gonna be a gating content however.
I said revamping it, no reason to remove it since the idea is good imo, the entire game is build on gating content so I dont understand why there cant be some progression at "end-game". Still I think it was a bad idea to have it tied to gear, should have been traits or something instead.
All bosses are tank and spank. Just because they throw from time to time a red glowing hot spot on the ground you have to avoid, or when they spawn a couple of adds means it's not something more complicated.
Since I said end bosses Ill just adress thoose. Funny you picked the easiest fights
Grand Stair:
The boss spawn 3 adds, 2 archers who respawn (can be mezzed) and the Devoted who you can kill and have random aggro (very annoying), the boos also have a nasty AoE attack which can almost oneshot squishys. So not just tank/spank but whatever!
Forges:
Every wave can spawn 1-2 trolls and they have knock back (can be mezzed) You also forgot to mention that in the last phase the boss starts the forge so the entire group must move around to avoid the fire, can get troll adds in this phase too. So again, not just tank/spank. Fun dungeon!
Want me to continue?
Yes please do, I enjoy this
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Semantics, its a MMO GAME. They also did not poop out horses in the books.
Captains gohst, panther, bog-lurker and the unseen are very much in keeping with he lore, granted it is turbine filling in the gaps on things that were not fully fleshed out in the books, but it is all approved by Tolkien and the lore masters stafeel has hired.. You need to stop speaking on this topic.
It was petty to begin with.
You can seem to stay on topic to save your life.
You really need to stop making comments like this. They dont do you any favours...
Lore-masters having a bog-lurker pet is more lore firendly than having a bear pet, ironic isnt it?
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd