Originally posted by adoniskev "The MMORPG to Rule Them All"
Chapter 1: An Effective Story Line The storyline should be simple,....
Agreed, so simple that the players really write the story through their actions in the game, as any good sandbox style game should. Chapter 2: Questing Should be Seamless and the only means of EXP.... Totally disagree, in fact, questing should be a nice sideline to enhance the story, provide some color, provide access to quality items or hunting grounds, but character advancement should not be the primary focus of the game, playing the game should be the primary focus.
Chapter 3: Eliminate Instances I can't agree here either. While I prefer a gameword where most of the content is not instanced, there is defintiely a time and place for instances and they can be useful if not overused in the overall game design.
Chapter 4: Currency - While eliminating currency is your attempt to combat gold farming, like all proposed solutions there is a downside in that it destroys having an active, cash based economy (something many people really enjoy) and reduces the game to a barter system. (there's a reason why the barter system was replaced in the real world, its very inefficient)
I'd prefer other solutions than this, I like earning cash (the more the better) and to some people the economic part of an MMORPG is the most important. Chapter 5: Customization The UI should be easily customizable, think of an iphone...you'll get the idea. I should be able to add or eliminate applets or styles to my choosing. A personalized UI (User Interface) will make the game more unique and a sense of ownership. I'm on the fence regarding this. I'd rather have a clean, functional interface provided by the game that everyone pretty much uses, but then again, I don't see the point of an IPOD either. (my phone has no more features on it than my first one did 10 years ago outside of a camera) Guess I'm just a curmudgeon. Chapter 6: End Game Replay Value - all of your ideas are way off-base IMO, don't design your MMO with an end game and you won't need any of this (see EVE). It should be one big metagame which everyone participates in at all times, (a living world) and not ever come to a close if it really wants to be great. QUESTION: Six expansions have gone through, how in the world am I going to catch up? Design your game like EVE where its really not necessary for players to "catch-up". I've been playing for 2.5 years now, and I'm just as competitive as anyt 5+ year vets. (no, I won't take the time to explain how it works here, you'll find other posts by me on the subject) Trust me, in certain ships no one has any more skills than I do, since I chose to focus on them. I'm equal in every way except most people have more skill flying them.
Chapter 7: Exploration Players should have the freedom to go anywhere they want of course at there own peril. Freedom is so important regardless of level. I can not emphasize how important this is. Exploring lands is dangerous however rewarding. Receive honors find rare pets or characters and add them to your collection. Sometime we like to take a break and explore our environment and why not get rewarded for it. We had to agree on something at some point. Yes, exploration of the unknown should be a key part of the game design. Chapter 8: PVP Pvp can be a lot of fun or it can also ruin a game. Pvp will only be allowed in specific zones. In safe zone everyone is immune, however the best raw materials are found in PVP zones. I'll agree with you to this point, there should be PVP "safer" zones, however few (if any) places should be completely safe. (a la EVE of course). Yes, the best rewards should come from the PVP zones, however many people who are 100% PVP averse will disagree with you completely on this. Not sure its possible to create a game that will appeal to everyone because the PVP model you use will really polarize your player base in terms of who will play it and why.
Chapter 11:Chapter 12:
Chapter 9: Cash Flow F2P or P2P or combination? The game would have an initial costly fee. Right now console games range from 39.99 to 69.99 USD. Depending on the scale of the game and costs to make the game the price would be set. It is in a developers interest to find the right marketing strategy and the right individuals. The game will be F2P with a cash shop. The cash shop will NOT sell armor, perhaps mounts, vanity pets etc... The cash shop is not the primary source of income. You are basically proposing the Guild Wars pricing model, which many people enjoy, but I don't really care for. I prefer my games to be more like EVE, Lineage 2, Aion with an initial fee and then free expansions supported by a monthly fee. I'd even pay an extra 5 bucks a month for a once a day "I-win" button that I could use to randomly kill players that I don't like.
Chapter 10: Population Control - Your overall game design model is flawed which is why you have such population control issues. No such problem exists in EVE due to its design and the universe is more or less equally populated with new and old players (except start systems and trade hubs) Character Slots/Customization - you developed a very complicated system to resolve the issue, but there are simpler solutions that already work well. ARMOR/WEAPONS Armor and weapons can be traded but not with currency. - Again, I disagree, I enjoy using currency in my games. As for your ideas, OK, I suppose, would have to see them in action. But some people really hate auction house trading of player crafted items and would rather sell them from their own storefront.
So, in summary, though you came up with a lot of ideas, most don't appeal to me, so I wouldn't consider your game the "one" to beat them all. It would be different of course, but different isn't the only requirement for me to enjoy an MMORPG.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
While I acknowledge the great deal of thought the OP went into to create these rules, there's not much positive I can say about them.
For one, many of the concepts are backwards thinking, rather than innovative; things that USED to be the way MMO's worked, and after gajillions of hours of gameplay data showing what people will bother with doing and what they won't, they changed them to the systems commonly used today. Anywho, obviously, my comments are in green, below.
Originally posted by adoniskev
"The MMORPG to Rule Them All"
Chapter 1: An Effective Story Line I guess I don't get where you're going, here; not really descriptive enough to comment.. Chapter 2: Questing Should be Seamless and the only means of EXP This is forcing players to play a certain way in order to advance. Myself, currently a LotRO player, enjoy the fact that doing nearly ANYTHING in the game provides some sort of advancement; either for XP, Item XP, a deed, a title, reputation, crafting skill... everytime I log in, with a level 10 toon or a level 60, I have a myriad of ways to progress my character. Being forced into 1 mode of gameplay makes a game seem shallow.
Quick Example:
The quests are listed once you click on the npc, you will see the list of quest and they are auto loaded to your journal. You do not need to head back and forth..... once you complete ALL the quests than head back to recieve the new coordinates for the new contact. You can not give in quests one by one the whole series of quests needs to be completed.
At lower levels there are more quests but at higher levels there are lower number of quests but of course more difficult. The NPC contact, once your done with him/her will give you the coordinates to not only just one but perhaps two or more contact locations. You can only choose one and choosing the wrong one can cost you a much needed armor or material... Keep in mind getting to the other npc quest giver may be a challenge, you may be ambushed or confronted. Or you may have to pass through high level enemies, either way the journey to the next npc would be an adventure. Completing the quest with this npc unlocks the next quest giver. This removes nearly all flexibility of storyline. CoX actually resolves the issues your recommendation resolves, while still enabling a storyline: You get a mission, complete it, step out of the instance and call your contact, who gives you the next mission in the storyline with a waypoint. Rinse/Repeat. With your concept, you can't create an interesting quest chain because that NPC has to give you all their quests at once, lest that person predict that you'll complete the first quest, be aware of its consequences, and move you on to the next. Other option, have no quest chains. Again, something earlier MMO's lacked and were IMPROVED by adding quest chains. The concept, like forcing people to level by quests, isn't innovative, it's restrictive and takes away tools for good development and storytelling.
Quest should replace instances...read on Chapter 3: Eliminate Instances Instances create dead space and give developers more headaches than trying to figure out if they missed a semi colon.
No instances? It should be realized that in the beginning, MMO's HAD no instances. It was through billions of hours of collective gameplay and absorbing the percieved problems players had that they came up with a solution; instancing. Some games have gone overboard on instancing(CoX), but for the most part, instancing has been a very positive contribution to MMO's. Nothing says dead space, or eliminates immersion than standing there waiting for a signature mob fade into view after you just saw it get hacked to pieces. Quests should be categorized as follows: Regular Quests: These are your typical collect, gather, kill and escort quests. Timed Quests: These quest are, "Timed," regardless of purpose they should be a one shot deal. Epic Quests: These quests are the hardest involving the antagonist of a story line. Everyone will ask than what is there to look forward to? Epic Quests, are not your, "Regular Quests." Instead of having to fight your way through endless enemies to reach the main boss, the boss actually co exists with the players in the same world. For example, lets say the antagonist is hiding in a cottage, building or perhaps roaming, well imagine a massive amounts of players trying to take down this one entity. Its already evident that taking down an,"Elite," npc is extremely enjoyable. We see it all the time in different games. The best way to circumvent the problem that everyone is attacking or the boss will come down too quickly is the npc CAN NOT be killed. Instead the Epic Quest will require you to inflict certain amount of damage as a group before it is completed. This is one example of an epic quest. It's also an example of a public quest(see WAR). Only difference, the main antagonist doesn't die in the end. I'm assuming the antagonist goes into "story"(non-combat) mode, says something like, "I'll be back!" and ports off to another part of the map? So, instead of waiting in line for a signature mob that you need to kill, you're waiting in line for a signature mob to NOT kill. If you eliminate instances, you either need to create multiple versions of the mob to find, or you have the same issues people have with non-instanced signatures. Example: Player finds the mob, but can't find enough people to beat it. Eventually, after having minimal success at finding a group, or at least a group that can beat it, he achieves high enough level to solo it. So he fights and fights and fights. It's down to about a third health, and other players show up and want to be in on the action. What if he doesn't want to group with them? Why should they get equal credit for killing a mob that he spent the last 45 minutes fighting? What about those other groups that have to wait forever for him to finish killing the thing so they can have a stab at it? What if they're in a guild the players guild is at war with? All of these problems are resolved through instancing. Instancing creates this same epic mob atmosphere, all without the development and storytelling restrictions your mechanic imposes. LotRO does the very same thing(TURTLE!!!) in instances as your example does; being separated from the unpredicable "real" world, the story can unfold in exactly the way the devs intended.
REWARD: The reward is substantial you receive a full armor set, the whole shabang. Whats the catch? The armor set will not relate to your character in addition different sets of armor will fall. This just inconveniences the player. Again, punishing them/restricting them/forcing them to play in a way that's not enjoyable. There's little fun involved in having to play "musical chairs" with armor, and/or having to put it up on an auction and wait days to find somebody who needs the armor you have and has the armor you need, and is willing to trade. If your a, "Tank," you may receive a healer set, this may encourage to reroll, trade and interact. However you can not auction the set instead you have to interact with players or set up your own shop which requires currency ;P. Reroll? Seriously? Are you saying, in this example, that the player should be encourage to respec to a Healer because they got healer armor? Please tell me this isn't what you're saying... Chapter 4: Currency Currency should fall from enemies only and the only way to collect. Currency can not be exchanged, traded or transferred. This will eliminate most Asian companies from farming or simply make it more difficult. So what is the point of currency. Currency will be used for game perks. Example: Starting a Guild, purchasing a home, resting at an inn, purchasing pots/potions and perhaps talents, furniture, simply materialistic things. You can not purchase armor or materials for jobs for making armor. Armor is only obtained through quests, and raw materials you have to roam the lands to collect them. There is an auction house, the auction house works differently where you can only trade your character, mounts and or pets (uber for hunters), or vanity pets. Example: Lets say your a hunter and you manage to catch a super rare animal/monster. You obviously dont need it however you can trade it to other players for something else that you may need. Perhaps a rare mount.
This is INSANELY restictive. You have to hope that somebody out there has the thing you want, and that you have something they want that's comparable in price. In the case of something that's "super rare", you'll probably want something "super rare" in exchange. As explained above regarding armor, the odds of somebody having something super rare that you want, that wants the super rare thing you have, is pretty slim on a server that would hold some 20-40000 players(a liberal estimate). In LotRO, you can use currency, yet STILL seeing good 1st age legendary items is pretty rare. Let alone one that your class can use. Imagine if you could only obtain that 1st age legendary item by having the particular item they're looking for. The only way a mechanic like yours has any chance of working, would be for you to have a limitless inventory; so that you can keep every single thing you've found in the off-chance the guy with your dream item needs it.
In the end its up to the players discretion if their trade is worth while. Gaining the best raw materials is difficult because the best raw materials are found in pvp zones. I am pretty sure the Asian companies will have a hard time farming these areas than again the Asians do out number the westerners by a large margin ;P And for most players, I'd wager it wouldn't be. I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound so critical, given that you've put some thought behind this. But I assure you, MMO designers in many of the AAA games have thought about it alot more, have alot more evidential data to work with and they have perfectly good reasons for not using a barter system. Whenever you punish players with restrictive rules due to "criminal behavior"(gold farmers), they'll go play something else. That simple.
Chapter 5: Customization The UI should be easily customizable, think of an iphone...you'll get the idea. I should be able to add or eliminate applets or styles to my choosing. A personalized UI (User Interface) will make the game more unique and a sense of ownership. Few modern MMO's I've played have a UI I've found to not be customizable enough. Giving people the option to add a "Hello Kitty" themed toolbar, for example(you used the iphone analogy) will destroy the immersion of the game and the player will leave, possibly not even realizing what made the game not click with them.
Chapter 6: End Game Replay Value Because in chapter 3 we discussed eliminating instances this is a given. When a character reaches the last quest he/she can choose to start over however there talents, powers, abilities will be greater. Therefore if a player finishes the game 3 times than you can say that a this player is 3 times stronger than a player who has only beaten the game once. So you beat the last quest what to do now? Answer: With the same character you can choose to start over and begin again at a lower level. Every player recieve a star when completing the game, the stars represents how many times you completed the game. Stars give a boost in a characters stats. The boost is percentage wise therefore the difference is felt at higher levels and obviously the more stars you have the stronger your character gets. This is called, "repeating quests for Epeen". Not only does it destroy immersion, the idea of your once powerful character becoming a low level street urchin having to fight your way back up to the top, it's also the epitome of repetetive grinding. And again, is restrictive. You eliminate choice, and you eliminate subs. HOW ON EARTH is this better than what's out there now? Most MMOs give you different races, classes, and starting areas; LotRO gives you far more quests than you need to level to 60, with many different options for gameplay style through classes. If you wanna just stick to your lvl 60 character, you can max out all your deeds, seek out 1st age legendaries and level them, crafting instances, max reputation... that's just the beginning.
Your innovation, run the same quests over again. how is this replayability? Replayability is making the levelling another character interesting, and God willing, another and another. How is it interesting to play a more powerful version of the same character through the same quests? The concept seems remarkably cynical to me. "This game is much more interesting now that mobs are less of a challenge..."
A player that is level 100 will be inferior to a player that is level 100 with a star or more. The, "ooooo," and "ahhhhsss," will definitely be felt here. WHATS THE CATCH? The catch is you better complete the game as many times as you can before THE FIRST expansion roles out. Once an expansion roles out you need to beat the game plus the expansion to get another star. Eventually getting stars becomes harder and harder players have a chance to catch up. In the end it balances out. QUESTION: Six expansions have gone through, how in the world am I going to catch up? Answer: The first star is given when you complete the original game...after that its time to play ketch-up. Again this is where trading characters in the Auction comes in handy. IF by any chance you find armor thats extremely hard to find you might find yourself trading in for a character with more than one star.... A piece of armor is going to be worth as much to someone as grinding through the content more than once?
Many first person shooters have this type of system and its extremely fun and a great accomplishment.
FPS's don't require ANYWHERE NEAR the kind of time commitment an MMO does. And nowhere NEAR the character commitment.
In addition the more stars you have of course the less likely someone will think twice about ganking you, in the end having five stars and it may take a full group of players to take you down regardless of type. Except the shoes goes to the other foot; if a guy with 5 stars ganks you, DON'T even THINK of retaliating. You're SoL.
Chapter 7: Exploration Players should have the freedom to go anywhere they want of course at there own peril. Freedom is so important regardless of level. I can not emphasize how important this is. Exploring lands is dangerous however rewarding. Receive honors find rare pets or characters and add them to your collection. Sometime we like to take a break and explore our environment and why not get rewarded for it. Lets say for example your a hunter and your level 20. While you decided your crazy and want to explore a level filled with enemies double your level you notice a creature around your level roaming in the midst of all these higher level enemies, now not only does this become exciting for a player but also a challenge and a great accomplishment if caught. So is taking on 3-4 creatures your lvl in a normal level area.
I don't see anything in this Chapter that appeals to an explorer. Again, taking LotRO as my example... As a low level character I ran as far east as I could go to see if I could make it to Rivendell. I got to see Weathertop and the Ford of Bruinen... try as I might I couldn't make it to Rivendell at that level(due to time constraints), but a few levels later I made it. All these areas were beautiful, and had scenery that was remarkably different than the areas I was in, before. THIS is what compels an explorer, not some low level mob in a high level zone.
The first time I entered the Old Forest, and saw a perfectly normal looking tree uproot itself and rush at me, THAT was a great exploration moment. It was something I'd never seen in the game up to that point. Or in ANY MMO. The secret to giving people incentive to explore isn't the chance to find a mob, it's the promise of something NEW and exciting. Chapter 8: PVP Pvp can be a lot of fun or it can also ruin a game. Pvp will only be allowed in specific zones. In safe zone everyone is immune, however the best raw materials are found in PVP zones. There are also flags that a guild can place on certain areas. While a guild flag is up any guild member collecting raw materials is granted a higher percentage, quicker gathering and a boost in defense. If another guild comes along they will have to take down the flag, it would take about 6 or 7 guild members to take a flag down. When defeated in a pvp zone you are not able to pvp for the 24 hours however you CAN be killed. Players who defeat other players can not defeat the same player with in 24 hrs. In addition you have a sickness where you can not gather in the area where you died so the zone is off limits in terms of gathering...if you are defeated. So if your going to attack a player or a guilds flag you better make the right decision. Have you PVP'd before? If so, you'd understand that the odds are pretty good that you'll die at least once in an evening, particularly given a fairly large scale battle; no matter how l33t you are, at some point you'll probably find yourself defending against 2-3 other attackers, and you're gonna go down, and when you do, "game over" for 24 hours.
Again, your model calls for RESTRICTING players from playing the way they want to play.
Chapter 10: Population Control I see it every time certain cities and towns are devoid of players. At mid levels you notice an empty city however when you reach a certain city its filled with high level players. Whats keeping them there? Answer: The higher the level the harder it is to gain exp thus your stuck at higher level cities. Solution: Quest givers are not found in large cities instead they are separated, because you can select all the quests for that specific quest giver there really is no need to stand around. Instead cities will have shops that open at a certain time. So you might find yourself traveling, thus a level 10 character may see an extremely uber character shopping at the same vendor and this not only promotes jealousy however will give a significant motivation, "I so want that armor."
So... the best armor will be purchasable through a npc vendor? You've already seriously hampered the ability to craft for financial gain, now this? What's the point of crafting, again?
Chapter 11: Character Slots/Customization There is only one slot..."oh god fail." wait wait...However in the game you have access to all the talents and abilities though you can not mix and match. However lets say you beat the game as a tank, you receive a star and incredibly you can decide to completely transform your character. While your playing the game you can switch your gender, appearance and go from tank to a healer without having to re-log with a click of a button. The same character you started with can now be changed however you can keep your original character creation armor, you can even change your name. You can switch back and forth. However the new character transformation does not receive the benefit of the star...sad but you need to earn the star as that character play style. Then there will be almost ZERO chance that a person will attempt to play as a different class, as they will have to give up ALL XP progress they have made in the game up to that point, as well as the opportunity for a * epeen. And in doing so, they'll get bored with Pwning mobs left and right using the same old character running the same old quests, and will go play another game. Another benefit your, "transformations," all share the same bank. Again remember the, "Epic Quest Rewards," you may just have the perfect healer set, thus you may be able to skip a few epic quests. One of the biggest innovations here is YOU CAN TRADE YOUR CHARACTER without trading your other transformations in the auction house. You can go to an NPC and CLONE your character stats, armor, and yes even stars for a one time currency fee...keep in mind this is extremely expensive to do. You don't seem to come from the mindset that MMO players actually CARE about their characters individuality and the virtual "sense of self". You have characters that people spent months advancing now MORPHING into an entirely new character, NOW you have clones of them out in the Auction House. This is so remarkably against the psychology of MMO lovers, I don't know where to begin.
Not to mention, this ruins your anti-gold farming model. Instead of seeing gold, you'll see accounts for sale:
For sale:
Service to existing account: * star character, ready to be "transformed", "remade", or "sold" at auction for big money: $19.95
** star character, ready to be "transformed", "remade", or "sold" at auction for big money: $29.95 *** star character, ready to be "transformed", "remade", or "sold" at auction for big money: Special! $36.95 *These are services to existing accounts. New accounts will also be charged for the initial cost of the game. At first, this probably wouldn't be popular due to the high price of your box. But as the game gets older, the game must get cheaper to survive; it's the nature of the market. The cheaper it goes, the more common it will be. So in the end, you restrict players, restrict developers, restrict quest writers for pretty much nothing.
Chapter 12: ARMOR/WEAPONS
There should be a limitless supply of different armor/weapons, however armor/weapons are not categorized as rare or epic instead the players with the information gathered from the auction house decide amongst themselves what is really a great piece of armor or a great weapon to look out for. This will inhibit a better community and controversy. The auction house will state the current seeked after items...
You're right about one thing. I WILL inhibit a better community.
Basically, you're removing color coding so that it's more difficult to tell what is good and what isn't. Again, this is not innovation, rather REGRESSION back to the way MMO's used to be made; eliminating years of progress based on player feedback, while at the same time claiming that this MMO would rule them all.
Anyway, back on topic. Instead of having the game categorize item qualities, you're going to leave that to online guides and wiki's. And eventually the items that should be ignored and the items that should be sought after will be well known to the general populace, whether you tell them or not. So in terms of gameplay, nothing really changes, other than your developers won't have to color code gear, and some less resourceful people will buy crappy gear, get pwned repeatedly, and quit.
Present day MMO's still don't get everything right... often they FUBAR on several levels. But the answer to fixing them is NOT to look backward. Most of those old conventions were left behind for good reason.
lol...sheesh let me finish....I did have at the bottom parenthesis NOT FINISHED however I am enjoying the feedback however those concerns you have I have already solved...patience patience I can only write so much in one day...life does get in the way :P
Stars? In other words, anyone who has played longer than you beats you 10 times out of 10. You have no way of catching up to them, lest you spend 21 hours a day killing boars. Broken PvP much?
No currency trading? This isn't a solution to RMT at all. Think of a better one. Like someone said, instead of selling you 10,000 gold, they'll be selling you 20 SoJs. That's how it worked in Diablo II-gold was worthless, so things were traded in items instead.
HOWEVER, D2 still had the option to trade for gold-it's just that the cap that you could carry and the difficulty to reach that cap were not quite balanced, so gold became worthless.
While you may have a star, its a percentage so to make it quite simple and understanding you need a significant amount of stars...reminds me of the episode of south park....where they played 24hrs straight hilarious...but no not to that extent.
Keep in mind players with more than one star may have other characters, so they may end up trading there character if perhaps you happened to find an uber armor set or weapon.
In one of my chapters I do explain,
One of the biggest innovations here is YOU CAN TRADE YOUR CHARACTER without trading your other transformations in the auction house or even loosing your character. You can go to an NPC and CLONE your character stats, armor, and yes even stars for a one time currency fee...keep in mind this is extremely expensive to do.
Ergh
well that dang destroys any immersion there is then doesn't it? what is the point if you create a character, copy it, sell it, then... it's like a in-game character selling.. wait what?
isn't that what 'gold-selling' companies do? sell characters?
I like some of your concepts, but I think the whole 'keep out the gold spammers' plan is abit outstretched, keep normal currency and crafting abilities; just make it interesting. Or better yet, follow the GW model and make it so that gears don't really matter too much in the end, make it a skill-based game.
Crafting can be a huge part for people who enjoy mmos... if you make it so that the crafted equipments (excluding your said 'scrolls' assuming they are part of profession and not class) can only be worn by you... well thing is, alot of stuff in-game live by the economy of material trade and equipment trade.
Other than that, I think alot of ideas are nice.
I want everyone to play, talents, crunching numbers really omits casual players who are single mothers/fathers, a much older demographic... I want everyone from an elder person to a teenager able to play without the constrictions of number crunching. Nothing is easier than know that gear is providing you with sufficient support.
Originally posted by pencilrick Two words that do NOT belong in an MMO: Chapter and Storyline The problem with the recent spate of MMO's is many are designed like movies: linear gaming experiences with only occasional player participation allowed. I do not want to play in a "movie", I want to game in a "world." Now there is nothing wrong with lore, or history, or factions; things how they are and why they are. However, the concept that an MMO needs a story arc is fallacious. Devs should never dictate a player's destiny or place the player's gaming experience on rails. The themes in a good MMO include adventure, risk, reward, and freedom. A fixed, predestined storyline destroys all of that.
A hundred thousand times this.
Edit:
I want to add that making quests the only way of gaining experience is both asinine and misguided.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
While I acknowledge the great deal of thought the OP went into to create these rules, there's not much positive I can say about them. For one, many of the concepts are backwards thinking, rather than innovative; things that USED to be the way MMO's worked, and after gajillions of hours of gameplay data showing what people will bother with doing and what they won't, they changed them to the systems commonly used today. Anywho, obviously, my comments are in green, below.
Originally posted by adoniskev
"The MMORPG to Rule Them All"
Chapter 1: An Effective Story Line I guess I don't get where you're going, here; not really descriptive enough to comment.. Chapter 2: Questing Should be Seamless and the only means of EXP This is forcing players to play a certain way in order to advance. Myself, currently a LotRO player, enjoy the fact that doing nearly ANYTHING in the game provides some sort of advancement; either for XP, Item XP, a deed, a title, reputation, crafting skill... everytime I log in, with a level 10 toon or a level 60, I have a myriad of ways to progress my character. Being forced into 1 mode of gameplay makes a game seem shallow.
Quick Example:
The quests are listed once you click on the npc, you will see the list of quest and they are auto loaded to your journal. You do not need to head back and forth..... once you complete ALL the quests than head back to recieve the new coordinates for the new contact. You can not give in quests one by one the whole series of quests needs to be completed.
At lower levels there are more quests but at higher levels there are lower number of quests but of course more difficult. The NPC contact, once your done with him/her will give you the coordinates to not only just one but perhaps two or more contact locations. You can only choose one and choosing the wrong one can cost you a much needed armor or material... Keep in mind getting to the other npc quest giver may be a challenge, you may be ambushed or confronted. Or you may have to pass through high level enemies, either way the journey to the next npc would be an adventure. Completing the quest with this npc unlocks the next quest giver. This removes nearly all flexibility of storyline. CoX actually resolves the issues your recommendation resolves, while still enabling a storyline: You get a mission, complete it, step out of the instance and call your contact, who gives you the next mission in the storyline with a waypoint. Rinse/Repeat. With your concept, you can't create an interesting quest chain because that NPC has to give you all their quests at once, lest that person predict that you'll complete the first quest, be aware of its consequences, and move you on to the next. Other option, have no quest chains. Again, something earlier MMO's lacked and were IMPROVED by adding quest chains. The concept, like forcing people to level by quests, isn't innovative, it's restrictive and takes away tools for good development and storytelling. Again this was a general idea put into text I have not even started on the details...give me time...it will be more clearer later on.
Quest should replace instances...read on Chapter 3: Eliminate Instances Instances create dead space and give developers more headaches than trying to figure out if they missed a semi colon.
No instances? It should be realized that in the beginning, MMO's HAD no instances. It was through billions of hours of collective gameplay and absorbing the percieved problems players had that they came up with a solution; instancing. Some games have gone overboard on instancing(CoX), but for the most part, instancing has been a very positive contribution to MMO's. Nothing says dead space, or eliminates immersion than standing there waiting for a signature mob fade into view after you just saw it get hacked to pieces. Again your basing the questing on a generalized idea that I have only begun to scratch the surface on... Quests should be categorized as follows: Regular Quests: These are your typical collect, gather, kill and escort quests. Timed Quests: These quest are, "Timed," regardless of purpose they should be a one shot deal. Epic Quests: These quests are the hardest involving the antagonist of a story line. Everyone will ask than what is there to look forward to? Epic Quests, are not your, "Regular Quests." Instead of having to fight your way through endless enemies to reach the main boss, the boss actually co exists with the players in the same world. For example, lets say the antagonist is hiding in a cottage, building or perhaps roaming, well imagine a massive amounts of players trying to take down this one entity. Its already evident that taking down an,"Elite," npc is extremely enjoyable. We see it all the time in different games. The best way to circumvent the problem that everyone is attacking or the boss will come down too quickly is the npc CAN NOT be killed. Instead the Epic Quest will require you to inflict certain amount of damage as a group before it is completed. This is one example of an epic quest. It's also an example of a public quest(see WAR). Only difference, the main antagonist doesn't die in the end. I'm assuming the antagonist goes into "story"(non-combat) mode, says something like, "I'll be back!" and ports off to another part of the map? So, instead of waiting in line for a signature mob that you need to kill, you're waiting in line for a signature mob to NOT kill. If you eliminate instances, you either need to create multiple versions of the mob to find, or you have the same issues people have with non-instanced signatures. Example: Player finds the mob, but can't find enough people to beat it. Eventually, after having minimal success at finding a group, or at least a group that can beat it, he achieves high enough level to solo it. So he fights and fights and fights. It's down to about a third health, and other players show up and want to be in on the action. What if he doesn't want to group with them? Why should they get equal credit for killing a mob that he spent the last 45 minutes fighting? What about those other groups that have to wait forever for him to finish killing the thing so they can have a stab at it? What if they're in a guild the players guild is at war with?
I did say YOU can come BACK to complete an epic quest I wont further comment...your skipping parts or I added something you have not had the opportunity to read.... All of these problems are resolved through instancing. Instancing creates this same epic mob atmosphere, all without the development and storytelling restrictions your mechanic imposes. LotRO does the very same thing(TURTLE!!!) in instances as your example does; being separated from the unpredicable "real" world, the story can unfold in exactly the way the devs intended.
REWARD: The reward is substantial you receive a full armor set, the whole shabang. Whats the catch? The armor set will not relate to your character in addition different sets of armor will fall. This just inconveniences the player. Again, punishing them/restricting them/forcing them to play in a way that's not enjoyable. There's little fun involved in having to play "musical chairs" with armor, and/or having to put it up on an auction and wait days to find somebody who needs the armor you have and has the armor you need, and is willing to trade. Sorry there is not laziness in the game again...we are promoting replay value..in addition a healer set was an example...a mage set could fall also its not a BIG restriction read the transformation area... If your a, "Tank," you may receive a healer set, this may encourage to reroll, trade and interact. However you can not auction the set instead you have to interact with players or set up your own shop which requires currency ;P. Reroll? Seriously? Are you saying, in this example, that the player should be encourage to respec to a Healer because they got healer armor? Please tell me this isn't what you're saying... No its not...read the transformation chapter...:P Chapter 4: Currency Currency should fall from enemies only and the only way to collect. Currency can not be exchanged, traded or transferred. This will eliminate most Asian companies from farming or simply make it more difficult. So what is the point of currency. Currency will be used for game perks. Example: Starting a Guild, purchasing a home, resting at an inn, purchasing pots/potions and perhaps talents, furniture, simply materialistic things. You can not purchase armor or materials for jobs for making armor. Armor is only obtained through quests, and raw materials you have to roam the lands to collect them. There is an auction house, the auction house works differently where you can only trade your character, mounts and or pets (uber for hunters), or vanity pets. Example: Lets say your a hunter and you manage to catch a super rare animal/monster. You obviously dont need it however you can trade it to other players for something else that you may need. Perhaps a rare mount.
This is INSANELY restictive. You have to hope that somebody out there has the thing you want, and that you have something they want that's comparable in price. In the case of something that's "super rare", you'll probably want something "super rare" in exchange. As explained above regarding armor, the odds of somebody having something super rare that you want, that wants the super rare thing you have, is pretty slim on a server that would hold some 20-40000 players(a liberal estimate). In LotRO, you can use currency, yet STILL seeing good 1st age legendary items is pretty rare. Let alone one that your class can use. Imagine if you could only obtain that 1st age legendary item by having the particular item they're looking for. The only way a mechanic like yours has any chance of working, would be for you to have a limitless inventory; so that you can keep every single thing you've found in the off-chance the guy with your dream item needs it. I was going to add that adding things to the auction has not time limit...I just have not gotten there...but trust me raw materials besides armor is something you definitly may consider as your trade skill is just as good for making those legendary items...
In the end its up to the players discretion if their trade is worth while. Gaining the best raw materials is difficult because the best raw materials are found in pvp zones. I am pretty sure the Asian companies will have a hard time farming these areas than again the Asians do out number the westerners by a large margin ;P And for most players, I'd wager it wouldn't be. I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound so critical, given that you've put some thought behind this. But I assure you, MMO designers in many of the AAA games have thought about it alot more, have alot more evidential data to work with and they have perfectly good reasons for not using a barter system. Whenever you punish players with restrictive rules due to "criminal behavior"(gold farmers), they'll go play something else. That simple. Currency ruins a game...I played many games where money really was not an issue and where I really did not need it...so currency creates more headaches...
Chapter 5: Customization The UI should be easily customizable, think of an iphone...you'll get the idea. I should be able to add or eliminate applets or styles to my choosing. A personalized UI (User Interface) will make the game more unique and a sense of ownership. Few modern MMO's I've played have a UI I've found to not be customizable enough. Giving people the option to add a "Hello Kitty" themed toolbar, for example(you used the iphone analogy) will destroy the immersion of the game and the player will leave, possibly not even realizing what made the game not click with them.
Again who cares this one is an opinion I want the gamers to have freedom.. I LOVE customizing my ui its a lot of fun...it really feels like mine and I tottally dissagree it does not ruin the immersion...
Chapter 6: End Game Replay Value Because in chapter 3 we discussed eliminating instances this is a given. When a character reaches the last quest he/she can choose to start over however there talents, powers, abilities will be greater. Therefore if a player finishes the game 3 times than you can say that a this player is 3 times stronger than a player who has only beaten the game once. So you beat the last quest what to do now? Answer: With the same character you can choose to start over and begin again at a lower level. Every player recieve a star when completing the game, the stars represents how many times you completed the game. Stars give a boost in a characters stats. The boost is percentage wise therefore the difference is felt at higher levels and obviously the more stars you have the stronger your character gets. This is called, "repeating quests for Epeen". Not only does it destroy immersion, the idea of your once powerful character becoming a low level street urchin having to fight your way back up to the top, it's also the epitome of repetetive grinding. And again, is restrictive. You eliminate choice, and you eliminate subs. HOW ON EARTH is this better than what's out there now? Most MMOs give you different races, classes, and starting areas; LotRO gives you far more quests than you need to level to 60, with many different options for gameplay style through classes. If you wanna just stick to your lvl 60 character, you can max out all your deeds, seek out 1st age legendaries and level them, crafting instances, max reputation... that's just the beginning.
Your innovation, run the same quests over again. how is this replayability? Replayability is making the levelling another character interesting, and God willing, another and another. How is it interesting to play a more powerful version of the same character through the same quests? The concept seems remarkably cynical to me. "This game is much more interesting now that mobs are less of a challenge..."
A player that is level 100 will be inferior to a player that is level 100 with a star or more. The, "ooooo," and "ahhhhsss," will definitely be felt here. WHATS THE CATCH? The catch is you better complete the game as many times as you can before THE FIRST expansion roles out. Once an expansion roles out you need to beat the game plus the expansion to get another star. Eventually getting stars becomes harder and harder players have a chance to catch up. In the end it balances out. QUESTION: Six expansions have gone through, how in the world am I going to catch up? Answer: The first star is given when you complete the original game...after that its time to play ketch-up. Again this is where trading characters in the Auction comes in handy. IF by any chance you find armor thats extremely hard to find you might find yourself trading in for a character with more than one star.... A piece of armor is going to be worth as much to someone as grinding through the content more than once?
Many first person shooters have this type of system and its extremely fun and a great accomplishment.
FPS's don't require ANYWHERE NEAR the kind of time commitment an MMO does. And nowhere NEAR the character commitment.
In addition the more stars you have of course the less likely someone will think twice about ganking you, in the end having five stars and it may take a full group of players to take you down regardless of type. Except the shoes goes to the other foot; if a guy with 5 stars ganks you, DON'T even THINK of retaliating. You're SoL.
Chapter 7: Exploration Players should have the freedom to go anywhere they want of course at there own peril. Freedom is so important regardless of level. I can not emphasize how important this is. Exploring lands is dangerous however rewarding. Receive honors find rare pets or characters and add them to your collection. Sometime we like to take a break and explore our environment and why not get rewarded for it. Lets say for example your a hunter and your level 20. While you decided your crazy and want to explore a level filled with enemies double your level you notice a creature around your level roaming in the midst of all these higher level enemies, now not only does this become exciting for a player but also a challenge and a great accomplishment if caught. So is taking on 3-4 creatures your lvl in a normal level area.
I don't see anything in this Chapter that appeals to an explorer. Again, taking LotRO as my example... As a low level character I ran as far east as I could go to see if I could make it to Rivendell. I got to see Weathertop and the Ford of Bruinen... try as I might I couldn't make it to Rivendell at that level(due to time constraints), but a few levels later I made it. All these areas were beautiful, and had scenery that was remarkably different than the areas I was in, before. THIS is what compels an explorer, not some low level mob in a high level zone.
The first time I entered the Old Forest, and saw a perfectly normal looking tree uproot itself and rush at me, THAT was a great exploration moment. It was something I'd never seen in the game up to that point. Or in ANY MMO. The secret to giving people incentive to explore isn't the chance to find a mob, it's the promise of something NEW and exciting. Chapter 8: PVP Pvp can be a lot of fun or it can also ruin a game. Pvp will only be allowed in specific zones. In safe zone everyone is immune, however the best raw materials are found in PVP zones. There are also flags that a guild can place on certain areas. While a guild flag is up any guild member collecting raw materials is granted a higher percentage, quicker gathering and a boost in defense. If another guild comes along they will have to take down the flag, it would take about 6 or 7 guild members to take a flag down. When defeated in a pvp zone you are not able to pvp for the 24 hours however you CAN be killed. Players who defeat other players can not defeat the same player with in 24 hrs. In addition you have a sickness where you can not gather in the area where you died so the zone is off limits in terms of gathering...if you are defeated. So if your going to attack a player or a guilds flag you better make the right decision. Have you PVP'd before? If so, you'd understand that the odds are pretty good that you'll die at least once in an evening, particularly given a fairly large scale battle; no matter how l33t you are, at some point you'll probably find yourself defending against 2-3 other attackers, and you're gonna go down, and when you do, "game over" for 24 hours.
Again, your model calls for RESTRICTING players from playing the way they want to play.
Chapter 10: Population Control I see it every time certain cities and towns are devoid of players. At mid levels you notice an empty city however when you reach a certain city its filled with high level players. Whats keeping them there? Answer: The higher the level the harder it is to gain exp thus your stuck at higher level cities. Solution: Quest givers are not found in large cities instead they are separated, because you can select all the quests for that specific quest giver there really is no need to stand around. Instead cities will have shops that open at a certain time. So you might find yourself traveling, thus a level 10 character may see an extremely uber character shopping at the same vendor and this not only promotes jealousy however will give a significant motivation, "I so want that armor."
So... the best armor will be purchasable through a npc vendor? You've already seriously hampered the ability to craft for financial gain, now this? What's the point of crafting, again?
Chapter 11: Character Slots/Customization There is only one slot..."oh god fail." wait wait...However in the game you have access to all the talents and abilities though you can not mix and match. However lets say you beat the game as a tank, you receive a star and incredibly you can decide to completely transform your character. While your playing the game you can switch your gender, appearance and go from tank to a healer without having to re-log with a click of a button. The same character you started with can now be changed however you can keep your original character creation armor, you can even change your name. You can switch back and forth. However the new character transformation does not receive the benefit of the star...sad but you need to earn the star as that character play style. Then there will be almost ZERO chance that a person will attempt to play as a different class, as they will have to give up ALL XP progress they have made in the game up to that point, as well as the opportunity for a * epeen. And in doing so, they'll get bored with Pwning mobs left and right using the same old character running the same old quests, and will go play another game. Another benefit your, "transformations," all share the same bank. Again remember the, "Epic Quest Rewards," you may just have the perfect healer set, thus you may be able to skip a few epic quests. One of the biggest innovations here is YOU CAN TRADE YOUR CHARACTER without trading your other transformations in the auction house. You can go to an NPC and CLONE your character stats, armor, and yes even stars for a one time currency fee...keep in mind this is extremely expensive to do. You don't seem to come from the mindset that MMO players actually CARE about their characters individuality and the virtual "sense of self". You have characters that people spent months advancing now MORPHING into an entirely new character, NOW you have clones of them out in the Auction House. This is so remarkably against the psychology of MMO lovers, I don't know where to begin.
Not to mention, this ruins your anti-gold farming model. Instead of seeing gold, you'll see accounts for sale:
For sale:
Service to existing account: * star character, ready to be "transformed", "remade", or "sold" at auction for big money: $19.95
** star character, ready to be "transformed", "remade", or "sold" at auction for big money: $29.95 *** star character, ready to be "transformed", "remade", or "sold" at auction for big money: Special! $36.95 *These are services to existing accounts. New accounts will also be charged for the initial cost of the game. At first, this probably wouldn't be popular due to the high price of your box. But as the game gets older, the game must get cheaper to survive; it's the nature of the market. The cheaper it goes, the more common it will be. So in the end, you restrict players, restrict developers, restrict quest writers for pretty much nothing.
Chapter 12: ARMOR/WEAPONS
There should be a limitless supply of different armor/weapons, however armor/weapons are not categorized as rare or epic instead the players with the information gathered from the auction house decide amongst themselves what is really a great piece of armor or a great weapon to look out for. This will inhibit a better community and controversy. The auction house will state the current seeked after items...
You're right about one thing. I WILL inhibit a better community.
Basically, you're removing color coding so that it's more difficult to tell what is good and what isn't. Again, this is not innovation, rather REGRESSION back to the way MMO's used to be made; eliminating years of progress based on player feedback, while at the same time claiming that this MMO would rule them all.
Anyway, back on topic. Instead of having the game categorize item qualities, you're going to leave that to online guides and wiki's. And eventually the items that should be ignored and the items that should be sought after will be well known to the general populace, whether you tell them or not. So in terms of gameplay, nothing really changes, other than your developers won't have to color code gear, and some less resourceful people will buy crappy gear, get pwned repeatedly, and quit.
Present day MMO's still don't get everything right... often they FUBAR on several levels. But the answer to fixing them is NOT to look backward. Most of those old conventions were left behind for good reason.
I would answers everything in a little bit...gonna have some wendy's
All games start with a good idea, a good plan, and great concepts.
The problem comes down to funds to develop it, technology avaliable, and overall resources.
Sure you might think you have the winning combo, thats the easy part....do you have the hundreds of millions of dollars its going to take to make the concepts work? How are you going to pay people to work on your concepts while the product your developing isnt bringing in a dollar?
So you have your good idea, however the engin your allowed to use has some limitations, so mabey the combat cant be exactly as you invisioned ect. A lot of good ideas cant be done due to the technology your using. Mabey the massive pvp events you planned are so laggy its not worth it. Hopefully the engin your using supports the latest graphics technology, but is efficiant enough for midrange computer users to play.
So you gotta work with that your given, but then all of a sudden you need to rush release in 12months or investors will pull out.
Now your great mmorpg that was suppose to rule them all is a fledgling, in permanant beta f2p on life support.
Really i think most mmorpg concept proposals, or whatever your trying to formulate here, are downright brilliant. I mean they are good enoughto convice people and companies to throw huge amounts of money at it, with no returns for the better part of a decade.
Also, instead of proposing what will satisfy the current mmo community, try being realistic and propose something that will appeal to the mmo community in 8 years.
I can say that what you have posted are here in this topic is only based on some people's opinion. No MMO will ever rule the MMO industry. Remember the quote? Change is constant? It's true, because sooner or later the things that people like today will be different tomorrow.
If this game were produced, I would not play it. Between the nonexistant economy, useless crafting, lack of instances (yeah, controlling the environment for a complex encounter is a good idea), inability to create alts, and any game that expects you to reroll and play over and over, can't have any kind of advanced progression. These are not selling points, they are weights that will make this hypothetical game sink.
OP really misses a lot of things that makes MMOs fun. In fact, it sounds like they're another one of those people pushing for MMOs to be single player games with chat functions. MMOs need a more engaging setting, not sticky plotline. They need more interdependence by players, not less. They need more methods of progression, not fewer. Your game sounds like a whole lot of no fun.
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
As long as we are talking about wish/dream lists I would like to add the notion that not all servers/realms be equal. The actions of one group or character or guild might affect the status of a server in terms of well...anything. Political structures, weather, environment, population, technology, magic, etc.
Perhaps the Undead/Cyborg/Republican horde is pushed back and new settlements are made on one server while another server has been overrun and is losing civilization. The King/Warlord of one land is dead by a player assassin on one world and on another he has hired a guild to hunt down all Mages/Mutants.
Fluid 'storytelling' that allows the players to brush the paint while developers create the canvas (and supply the brushes, pallete, sunlight and workspace)
Not that this means that there is an empty sandbox but rather that the supplied storyline/quests have meaning. Wouldn't it be interesting if you could fail a quest and the hostages die? They don't pop up again and thank you for saving them 'this time' or that the demon that defeated you is now free to destroy the monestary/orphanage/emu farm.
Of course this might require 'on the fly' monitoring by a human "dungeon master" (google it non-D&D types) and cost an arm and a leg but I might consider a hefty monthly fee for such a service.
Two words that do NOT belong in an MMO: Chapter and Storyline The problem with the recent spate of MMO's is many are designed like movies: linear gaming experiences with only occasional player participation allowed. I do not want to play in a "movie", I want to game in a "world." Now there is nothing wrong with lore, or history, or factions; things how they are and why they are. However, the concept that an MMO needs a story arc is fallacious. Devs should never dictate a player's destiny or place the player's gaming experience on rails. The themes in a good MMO include adventure, risk, reward, and freedom. A fixed, predestined storyline destroys all of that.
With this, Devs could create a sandbox to rule them all.
I would love to see a game created with a living breathing NPC world first. The NPC's should be given gidelines and set out to live in this game world. They would level, form towns, cities, empires. Have wars with each other over recorces or raciall diferences or anything you could think of. Everything in the world can and will change with the NPC AI from the Devs as well as direct interaction from the Devs.
Once this game world is off and running on it's own, you add in players to populate the game and interact as they see fit in the lore and poitics of the sandbox world. The players would then change and create a world as they see fit. Fighting with or againsts NPCs in the game as well as banning together with other players to change the world.
OP wants themepark questing and leveling. Many others want a sandbox open world. Many others want whatever they can make up. Gaming companies want money. Money trumps everything else. If you are a billionaire and want to make your own game, go for it. If not, we are all stuck with what makes money. I would love for the MMO model to change someday. We will have to see what happens in 2010.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Ok 6 to 8 months later i decide to play this game there is somebody 3 times more powerful than me and i have to play and beat the game 3 three times to get as good that person.How long do think i am playing that game.
Ok 6 to 8 months later i decide to play this game there is somebody 3 times more powerful than me and i have to play and beat the game 3 three times to get as good that person.How long do think i am playing that game.
The stars do not make someone a GOD however, when the game is announced hard core gamers will find this very attractive. If you buy the game in the beginning you have an opportunity to gain those stars again and I have to EMPHASIZE you need at least 3 stars or more to really feel the difference.
The formula for the percentage right now is under debate as far as crunching the numbers.
Also from what I am seeing on your post I do have an answers for you just keep reading the chapter I am updating them...
As long as we are talking about wish/dream lists I would like to add the notion that not all servers/realms be equal. The actions of one group or character or guild might affect the status of a server in terms of well...anything. Political structures, weather, environment, population, technology, magic, etc. Perhaps the Undead/Cyborg/Republican horde is pushed back and new settlements are made on one server while another server has been overrun and is losing civilization. The King/Warlord of one land is dead by a player assassin on one world and on another he has hired a guild to hunt down all Mages/Mutants. Fluid 'storytelling' that allows the players to brush the paint while developers create the canvas (and supply the brushes, pallete, sunlight and workspace) Not that this means that there is an empty sandbox but rather that the supplied storyline/quests have meaning. Wouldn't it be interesting if you could fail a quest and the hostages die? They don't pop up again and thank you for saving them 'this time' or that the demon that defeated you is now free to destroy the monestary/orphanage/emu farm. Of course this might require 'on the fly' monitoring by a human "dungeon master" (google it non-D&D types) and cost an arm and a leg but I might consider a hefty monthly fee for such a service. Okay, rambling again. I'm out
Because I can only write so much in a given day...cough cough work life...etc... Yes the quests will be dynamic. IF you read further I updated you have that evil to good bar... With in the quests are options to save or kill, be compassionate or ruthless its up to you...
Just wanted to say that the idea of only getting exp from quests will ensure I never try the game. Ive played every AAA mmo in existence. Not a single one has quest that I really enjoy. I highly doubt you can write a short story I would find enjoyable. I do not think anyone's quests ideas are any good.
I like grinding. Be it solo or in a group grind. I enjoy killing shit Im not supposed to be able to kill, just for killings sake. Call me a min/maxer. I dont care. If you want my money, just make sure I get exp doing it.
Just wanted to say that the idea of only getting exp from quests will ensure I never try the game. Ive played every AAA mmo in existence. Not a single one has quest that I really enjoy. I highly doubt you can write a short story I would find enjoyable. I do not think anyone's quests ideas are any good.
I like grinding. Be it solo or in a group grind. I enjoy killing shit Im not supposed to be able to kill, just for killings sake. Call me a min/maxer. I dont care. If you want my money, just make sure I get exp doing it.
Oh great, a formula for yet another WoW clone. From my point of view, almost every point the OP has is wrong. There is nothing in the OP's description that would keep me playing for more than ten hours.
Oh great, a formula for yet another WoW clone. From my point of view, almost every point the OP has is wrong. There is nothing in the OP's description that would keep me playing for more than ten hours.
Please give some examples dont just state an opinion without at least acknowledging...this is an example of a TROLL post...So for that person who made a post about whats a Troll... this is the perfect example, an opinion without any clause or example.
I think alot of the OP ideas seem odd. The idea for selling clones and no pvp for 24 hours, seem off putting.
Sliding my finger across my............................................iphone seems odd...but sometimes its the odd things that revolutionize humanities approach to life...well...in this case video games...:P
If your gripe is against repeating content, then it's a perfectly acceptable opinion to want low-quality quest content. You want devs to split their time among 5 quests you run once each, rather than have them spend 5 times the effort making an instance players are expected to run 5 times. I don't agree with that opinion (I lean towards high-quality content) but it's valid.
Your not running 5 times, here is the scenario. You talk to the npc and GRAB all the quests, the only time you need to return is when you completed all the npc quests. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post...but from what I am reading I went ahead and explained further the quests.
What I'm describing is one of the factors behind instancing providing higher quality content, which some players prefer. A given dev team gets x manhours to work on a chunk of content. They can make 5 quests or 1 instance with that time. If they go for quests, they get 1/5th the manhours to work on each individual quest compared to the one instance (which you'd be expected to run 5 times.)
So I'm describing a dev decision between the two options, and stating which one I feel is a strong choice. MMORPGs struggle to provide high quality content, and while I don't know if I'd suggest making an MMORPG entirely out of repeatedly-run instances, I also know that I wouldn't like a MMORPG which was entirely composed of spammed, low-quality quests.
The situation shares similarities with MMORPG playing preferences. You have two choices:
Pick one high-quality MMORPG and play it, even if it means repeating some of the content in that MMORPG multiple times (which you're probably going to be willing to do as a result of that content being high quality.)
Refuse to repeat any content in an MMORPG, and thus hop between multiple lower-quality MMORPGs in the constant pursuit of something new.
Why does a quest need to be low quality...I am 100 percent sure quests can be more exilerating than an instance...btw I updated...
In addition the npc will have many quests not just one...a team member may be encharge of one or two npcs...
Comments
I think that "The MMORPG to Rule Them All" is owned by lotro correct? lol
Quest grinding?
Ewwwwwww. No thanks.
So, in summary, though you came up with a lot of ideas, most don't appeal to me, so I wouldn't consider your game the "one" to beat them all. It would be different of course, but different isn't the only requirement for me to enjoy an MMORPG.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
lol...sheesh let me finish....I did have at the bottom parenthesis NOT FINISHED however I am enjoying the feedback however those concerns you have I have already solved...patience patience I can only write so much in one day...life does get in the way :P
While you may have a star, its a percentage so to make it quite simple and understanding you need a significant amount of stars...reminds me of the episode of south park....where they played 24hrs straight hilarious...but no not to that extent.
Keep in mind players with more than one star may have other characters, so they may end up trading there character if perhaps you happened to find an uber armor set or weapon.
In one of my chapters I do explain,
One of the biggest innovations here is YOU CAN TRADE YOUR CHARACTER without trading your other transformations in the auction house or even loosing your character. You can go to an NPC and CLONE your character stats, armor, and yes even stars for a one time currency fee...keep in mind this is extremely expensive to do.
Ergh
well that dang destroys any immersion there is then doesn't it? what is the point if you create a character, copy it, sell it, then... it's like a in-game character selling.. wait what?
isn't that what 'gold-selling' companies do? sell characters?
I like some of your concepts, but I think the whole 'keep out the gold spammers' plan is abit outstretched, keep normal currency and crafting abilities; just make it interesting. Or better yet, follow the GW model and make it so that gears don't really matter too much in the end, make it a skill-based game.
Crafting can be a huge part for people who enjoy mmos... if you make it so that the crafted equipments (excluding your said 'scrolls' assuming they are part of profession and not class) can only be worn by you... well thing is, alot of stuff in-game live by the economy of material trade and equipment trade.
Other than that, I think alot of ideas are nice.
I want everyone to play, talents, crunching numbers really omits casual players who are single mothers/fathers, a much older demographic... I want everyone from an elder person to a teenager able to play without the constrictions of number crunching. Nothing is easier than know that gear is providing you with sufficient support.
A hundred thousand times this.
Edit:
I want to add that making quests the only way of gaining experience is both asinine and misguided.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I would answers everything in a little bit...gonna have some wendy's
All games start with a good idea, a good plan, and great concepts.
The problem comes down to funds to develop it, technology avaliable, and overall resources.
Sure you might think you have the winning combo, thats the easy part....do you have the hundreds of millions of dollars its going to take to make the concepts work? How are you going to pay people to work on your concepts while the product your developing isnt bringing in a dollar?
So you have your good idea, however the engin your allowed to use has some limitations, so mabey the combat cant be exactly as you invisioned ect. A lot of good ideas cant be done due to the technology your using. Mabey the massive pvp events you planned are so laggy its not worth it. Hopefully the engin your using supports the latest graphics technology, but is efficiant enough for midrange computer users to play.
So you gotta work with that your given, but then all of a sudden you need to rush release in 12months or investors will pull out.
Now your great mmorpg that was suppose to rule them all is a fledgling, in permanant beta f2p on life support.
Really i think most mmorpg concept proposals, or whatever your trying to formulate here, are downright brilliant. I mean they are good enoughto convice people and companies to throw huge amounts of money at it, with no returns for the better part of a decade.
Also, instead of proposing what will satisfy the current mmo community, try being realistic and propose something that will appeal to the mmo community in 8 years.
I can say that what you have posted are here in this topic is only based on some people's opinion. No MMO will ever rule the MMO industry. Remember the quote? Change is constant? It's true, because sooner or later the things that people like today will be different tomorrow.
timing and luck play a huge factor in what games take off and which games never get popular.
If this game were produced, I would not play it. Between the nonexistant economy, useless crafting, lack of instances (yeah, controlling the environment for a complex encounter is a good idea), inability to create alts, and any game that expects you to reroll and play over and over, can't have any kind of advanced progression. These are not selling points, they are weights that will make this hypothetical game sink.
OP really misses a lot of things that makes MMOs fun. In fact, it sounds like they're another one of those people pushing for MMOs to be single player games with chat functions. MMOs need a more engaging setting, not sticky plotline. They need more interdependence by players, not less. They need more methods of progression, not fewer. Your game sounds like a whole lot of no fun.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
As long as we are talking about wish/dream lists I would like to add the notion that not all servers/realms be equal. The actions of one group or character or guild might affect the status of a server in terms of well...anything. Political structures, weather, environment, population, technology, magic, etc.
Perhaps the Undead/Cyborg/Republican horde is pushed back and new settlements are made on one server while another server has been overrun and is losing civilization. The King/Warlord of one land is dead by a player assassin on one world and on another he has hired a guild to hunt down all Mages/Mutants.
Fluid 'storytelling' that allows the players to brush the paint while developers create the canvas (and supply the brushes, pallete, sunlight and workspace)
Not that this means that there is an empty sandbox but rather that the supplied storyline/quests have meaning. Wouldn't it be interesting if you could fail a quest and the hostages die? They don't pop up again and thank you for saving them 'this time' or that the demon that defeated you is now free to destroy the monestary/orphanage/emu farm.
Of course this might require 'on the fly' monitoring by a human "dungeon master" (google it non-D&D types) and cost an arm and a leg but I might consider a hefty monthly fee for such a service.
Okay, rambling again. I'm out
With this, Devs could create a sandbox to rule them all.
I would love to see a game created with a living breathing NPC world first. The NPC's should be given gidelines and set out to live in this game world. They would level, form towns, cities, empires. Have wars with each other over recorces or raciall diferences or anything you could think of. Everything in the world can and will change with the NPC AI from the Devs as well as direct interaction from the Devs.
Once this game world is off and running on it's own, you add in players to populate the game and interact as they see fit in the lore and poitics of the sandbox world. The players would then change and create a world as they see fit. Fighting with or againsts NPCs in the game as well as banning together with other players to change the world.
OP wants themepark questing and leveling. Many others want a sandbox open world. Many others want whatever they can make up. Gaming companies want money. Money trumps everything else. If you are a billionaire and want to make your own game, go for it. If not, we are all stuck with what makes money. I would love for the MMO model to change someday. We will have to see what happens in 2010.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Ok 6 to 8 months later i decide to play this game there is somebody 3 times more powerful than me and i have to play and beat the game 3 three times to get as good that person.How long do think i am playing that game.
The stars do not make someone a GOD however, when the game is announced hard core gamers will find this very attractive. If you buy the game in the beginning you have an opportunity to gain those stars again and I have to EMPHASIZE you need at least 3 stars or more to really feel the difference.
The formula for the percentage right now is under debate as far as crunching the numbers.
Also from what I am seeing on your post I do have an answers for you just keep reading the chapter I am updating them...
Because I can only write so much in a given day...cough cough work life...etc... Yes the quests will be dynamic. IF you read further I updated you have that evil to good bar... With in the quests are options to save or kill, be compassionate or ruthless its up to you...
LOL hilarious....:P
Just wanted to say that the idea of only getting exp from quests will ensure I never try the game. Ive played every AAA mmo in existence. Not a single one has quest that I really enjoy. I highly doubt you can write a short story I would find enjoyable. I do not think anyone's quests ideas are any good.
I like grinding. Be it solo or in a group grind. I enjoy killing shit Im not supposed to be able to kill, just for killings sake. Call me a min/maxer. I dont care. If you want my money, just make sure I get exp doing it.
Its been updated :P...
Oh great, a formula for yet another WoW clone. From my point of view, almost every point the OP has is wrong. There is nothing in the OP's description that would keep me playing for more than ten hours.
Please give some examples dont just state an opinion without at least acknowledging...this is an example of a TROLL post...So for that person who made a post about whats a Troll... this is the perfect example, an opinion without any clause or example.
I think alot of the OP ideas seem odd. The idea for selling clones and no pvp for 24 hours, seem off putting.
Sliding my finger across my............................................iphone seems odd...but sometimes its the odd things that revolutionize humanities approach to life...well...in this case video games...:P
Your not running 5 times, here is the scenario. You talk to the npc and GRAB all the quests, the only time you need to return is when you completed all the npc quests. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post...but from what I am reading I went ahead and explained further the quests.
What I'm describing is one of the factors behind instancing providing higher quality content, which some players prefer. A given dev team gets x manhours to work on a chunk of content. They can make 5 quests or 1 instance with that time. If they go for quests, they get 1/5th the manhours to work on each individual quest compared to the one instance (which you'd be expected to run 5 times.)
So I'm describing a dev decision between the two options, and stating which one I feel is a strong choice. MMORPGs struggle to provide high quality content, and while I don't know if I'd suggest making an MMORPG entirely out of repeatedly-run instances, I also know that I wouldn't like a MMORPG which was entirely composed of spammed, low-quality quests.
The situation shares similarities with MMORPG playing preferences. You have two choices:
Why does a quest need to be low quality...I am 100 percent sure quests can be more exilerating than an instance...btw I updated...
In addition the npc will have many quests not just one...a team member may be encharge of one or two npcs...