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World of Warcraft: Wood: Pets and the Boy Who Cried Wolf

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  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Member Posts: 3,138

    "By raising a gigantic stink about this particular move on Blizzard's part, the only thing that is going to happen is that next time, when a company actually does do something offensive like charge a subscription and offer game-enhancing items within a store, is that no one is going to listen to the horde of people that are crying foul."

    For the record this is the first time I've commented on this specific recent topic. Disclosure out of the way, I understand your point but I think you too easily forget that with companies who see the bottom line constantly as you state in your article, it is very common practice to "start" such practices with somethings that seem harmless and "for a good cause". That way they lure people into complacency. Use the "non-essential" items as a test run and to setup the infrastructure needed. Then, after a while, add 1 or 2 items that affect gameplay and release statements downplaying the "degree" of effect they have.

    It's a snowball effect. These companies want to justify their actions sometimes by claiming the majority of the customers want this or that. That's why themepark games are being made a dime a dozen. Well, the majority of Western gamers don't seem to want item malls.

    They need to take the hint and investigate other ways to get money. Like adding premium servers that cater to various gameplay subsets. I know roleplayers would pay extra on monthly fees for the chance to have more systems that gave more depth and player control. PvPers would also for servers that offered up more options to them. These are things western gamers want! Yet they (companies) consistently ignore them and try to push and edge in things they don't want.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,339

     ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Its amazing people are STILL going on with the irrational hyperbole.

     

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • streeastreea Member UncommonPosts: 654
    Originally posted by Stradden

    Originally posted by streea

    But no. Instead you spent all that time going "STOP QQING!" by... QQing. No insight into the industry aside from "the more you yell, the less they'll listen to you" (which is only true of companies that honestly don't care about their playerbase). Not actually adding anything to the massive 200+ string. Instead, it was a giant nerdrage where you're right and they're wrong and those against this should shut up.

    Welcome to the world of columns and opinion pieces.

    And for the record, the entire article revolves around the encroachment of a different revenue model into the Western MMO market, and how in some cases people over-react to them. This over-reaction to harmless additions is indeed making it easier and easier for those powers that be to ignore the voices of their players. This, in turn, will make it easier for companies to get away with less scrupulous behavior. Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when a wolf actually appears if they've pointed at every house dog that's walked by and screamed bloody murder?

    But yeah, it was probably just an un-thought out nerdrage.

     

    The problem is that there IS a wolf. It's sitting right there, nibbling on the sheep, and half the people are going "oh, don't worry, it won't do anything more than nibble" and the other half are going "OMG THE WOLVES ARE GOING TO EAT THEM ALL!"

     

    Obviously the wolves don't care to begin with. Maybe they are just there to nibble. Maybe they're not. The fact is that if they weren't listening to the people in the first place, they aren't going to care if anyone's running around crying wolf... in their mind, there will always be more sheep to eat. It's not making it easier to ignore people... that's like saying that if it weren't for corrupt people filing frivolous lawsuits, there wouldn't be any corrupt lawyers. And suggesting that more people yelling means that they get away with doing worse things? What? They do worse things not because people are yelling louder, it's because as long as people buy, they will sell. It has nothing to do with "Oh, thank goodness people are yelling so much about this issue, it just makes it easier for me to sell whatever I want!"

    Then there's the fact that the only company that I know of that's slowly introduced the "buy for things that don't affect you" concept is SOE. And last I checked, they didn't stop at cosmetic things.

    PS: For the record, your article does not revolve around "how strong, negative reactions hurt the playerbase." The vast majority of it is about the points that the naysayers have brought up and why they're wrong, and defending a corporation for doing what it does best: make as much money as it can.

  • jotulljotull Member Posts: 256

    My god the stupid is strong in this thread. To me this is yet more proof that WoW has some of the most crybaby Asshat players out there. These complete and utter waste of skin crying about this vanity pet are the same assholes who blew Ezra shit because of the act of kindness Blizzard and make a whish provided. One of my guild mates twelve year old daughter has gotten fucking death threats in tell simply because she had her new Padarain out in Stormwind. This is a fucking game morons and it's a business, if Blizzard wants to make every item buyable they will. The only two reasons anyone would have an issue with this is 1: They are pissed because the item is available to anyone with 10.00 to spare or 2: they are too ghetto to afford it. No other reason is logical. So in the end if you don't like it don't fucking buy it, and stop blowing cancer patients a little girls shit because they have something that you don't.

  • StraddenStradden Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
    Originally posted by Khalathwyr


    "By raising a gigantic stink about this particular move on Blizzard's part, the only thing that is going to happen is that next time, when a company actually does do something offensive like charge a subscription and offer game-enhancing items within a store, is that no one is going to listen to the horde of people that are crying foul."
    For the record this is the first time I've commented on this specific recent topic. Disclosure out of the way, I understand your point but I think you too easily forget that with companies who see the bottom line constantly as you state in your article, it is very common practice to "start" such practices with somethings that seem harmless and "for a good cause". That way they lure people into complacency. Use the "non-essential" items as a test run and to setup the infrastructure needed. Then, after a while, add 1 or 2 items that affect gameplay and release statements downplaying the "degree" of effect they have.
    It's a snowball effect. These companies want to justify their actions sometimes by claiming the majority of the customers want this or that. That's why themepark games are being made a dime a dozen. Well, the majority of Western gamers don't seem to want item malls.
    They need to take the hint and investigate other ways to get money. Like adding premium servers that cater to various gameplay subsets. I know roleplayers would pay extra on monthly fees for the chance to have more systems that gave more depth and player control. PvPers would also for servers that offered up more options to them. These are things western gamers want! Yet they (companies) consistently ignore them and try to push and edge in things they don't want.

    You're making pretty far reaching assumptions here. I mean, sure I suppose this COULD be leading to something more, but I don't think that just because that possibility exists that everyone should assume it to be the case. Looking rationally at this and the other RMT that Blizzard offers like the various change to character options that players have, a pattern seems to indicate that the company's plan is to offer aesthetic options only.

    Your statements, said rationally and in an informed way as they were, about the possibility existing that companies might take advantage of something like this are perfectly valid. You said it, you backed it up and made people aware of a possibility. you didn't rage at the top of your virtual lungs.

    using the boy who cried wolf analogy: You said - hey guys, there might be wolves in this area so watch out. You didn't say - Sweet jebus, a WOLF! RUUUNNNNN!!!!

    I'm not saying that Blizzard won't turn around one day and open a full blown cash shop. I'm just saying that the time to bang on pots and pans, hit panic buttons and scream as loudly as possible hasn't come yet and the more often people do all of those things on this subject, the less effective it becomes.

     

    Cheers,
    Jon Wood
    Managing Editor
    MMORPG.com

  • RaztorRaztor Member Posts: 670

     Thing is Blizzard have been doing these fluff items for ages (3 years) through the TGC cards that you can buy that give some mounts or pets. Exactly same thing and people never complained about it. As long as it remains fluff items, then I don't see what the fuss is about.

  • YauchyYauchy Member UncommonPosts: 298

     Very good article: though I think some of the posters are to blind, conspiracy mongers,  or maybe just living in a cave (with internet).  It's a really easy analogy to understand & stomach, though some may disagree with the effect or importance of such RMT-like things games do these days.

    Nobody worries until something bad happens, as they'd much rather have hindsight to use as fuel for their flames.  The minority (or so it seems) of the sane thinkers will on that day just smile :)

  • Angel64Angel64 Member Posts: 1

    This is ridiculous.   Outrage over  2 vanity pets?   If your whole basis is that they are starting to charge real life money for items in game; then where was the outrage over TCG items that could be redeemed in game for mounts, pets, tabards, and wands?    Where was the outrage when you could recruit a friend and get a zebra mount but that also allowed your account to be linked to that recruited friends and get triple the experience for your low level characters while you hunt together and to even have levels granted to low level characters?      Is it perhaps that since you don't want to pay for a vanity pet you don't think anyone else should be allowed to either?    Grow up and actually pick your battles.    Just make sure they are actually real battles and not jealous childish whining.

  • storm-dragonstorm-dragon Member Posts: 157
    Originally posted by jotull


    My god the stupid is strong in this thread. To me this is yet more proof that WoW has some of the most crybaby Asshat players out there. These complete and utter waste of skin crying about this vanity pet are the same assholes who blew Ezra shit because of the act of kindness Blizzard and make a whish provided. One of my guild mates twelve year old daughter has gotten fucking death threats in tell simply because she had her new Padarain out in Stormwind. This is a fucking game morons and it's a business, if Blizzard wants to make every item buyable they will. The only two reasons anyone would have an issue with this is 1: They are pissed because the item is available to anyone with 10.00 to spare or 2: they are too ghetto to afford it. No other reason is logical. So in the end if you don't like it don't fucking buy it, and stop blowing cancer patients a little girls shit because they have something that you don't.



     

    Wow....the nuclear language aside I can't say I disagree. I too have seen a lot of people get waylaid by other players simply for having their Padaerian out...but on AD, GM's were also publically banning the offenders. Never understood jelousey.

    This sword here at my side dont act the way it should
    Keeps calling me its master, but I feel like its slave
    Hauling me faster and faster to an early, early grave
    And it howls! it howls like hell!

  • OptiqueMarquisOptiqueMarquis Member UncommonPosts: 860

    [quote=Jon Wood]When you go to the movies, you pay for your ticket. You expect that you're going to go in, have a seat to sit in, the movie will play properly, the sound will be working and all that jazz. Everything you need to have watched the movie. That's what the ticket covers. Now, the theatre also offers you the option of buying some popcorn, at a remarkably high makrup. You don't need that popcorn to get your money's worth out of the ticket you bought. You don't need that popcorn to enjoy the movie but it might just enhance your movie-going experience. Nobody yells at the kid behind the counter because it isn't included in the ticket price. It's business. I could completely see your beef though if you bought your ticket and they made you pay extra once you got there for sound.[/quote]

     

    you are completely missing the point jon.

    yes pets and decorative items can enhance your playing experience like popcorn in a cinema,

     

    BUT

     

    paid popcorn cannot be nerfed,

    paid popcorn cannot be made obsolete with a new bigger paid popcorn during the movie session

    popcorn does not affect your status in the cinema

    etc etc

    a better comparison would be:

     

    movie ticket : $10

    buy special goggles to enhance your viewing experience $1

    you dont NEED to buy the goggles, but not doing so will prevent you from enjoying the movie the same way as the guy with goggles sitting next to you.

     

    besides, we all know very well what an apparent harmless rmt pet could mean.

    next you have a bigger pet on the rmt, then the accessories for the pet, suddenly the pet requires food to live which you need to RMT buy, then you can buy the small pet house...

    i was surprised you are being so short sighted on this one.

     

     

  • heremypetheremypet Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 528
    Originally posted by Stradden

    Originally posted by streea

    But no. Instead you spent all that time going "STOP QQING!" by... QQing. No insight into the industry aside from "the more you yell, the less they'll listen to you" (which is only true of companies that honestly don't care about their playerbase). Not actually adding anything to the massive 200+ string. Instead, it was a giant nerdrage where you're right and they're wrong and those against this should shut up.

    Welcome to the world of columns and opinion pieces.

    And for the record, the entire article revolves around the encroachment of a different revenue model into the Western MMO market, and how in some cases people over-react to them. This over-reaction to harmless additions is indeed making it easier and easier for those powers that be to ignore the voices of their players. This, in turn, will make it easier for companies to get away with less scrupulous behavior. Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when a wolf actually appears if they've pointed at every house dog that's walked by and screamed bloody murder?

    But yeah, it was probably just an un-thought out nerdrage.

     

    Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when the wolf walks so slowly that he can only be seen when he takes a step?  The boy will cry out at each step, and sure no one will listen to him after a while, but eventually the wolf will reach the sheep.

    The difference here is that there is a wolf, and not just a bunch of dogs.  A while back everyone saw a dog and cried wolf when Blizzard added more and more cash services.  People cried wolf that there would wind up being RMT in WoW.  But everyone said no there's no wolf, it's just paid service, a dog, and there won't be RMT in WoW because they said they are against it.  Well now that RMT is here, the bloody wolf is right in your face again, but oh, no it actually a dog because they have TCG rewards and all these other lists of excuses, BS.

    It's a grooming strategy. But luckily not every person in the world is a sheep and needs to be told when a wolf is coming, or when something just plain stinks.

    Try all they want, they won't get me to play a game where I win by how much I pay, that must sound like a freaking wet dream to them I'm sure, but it ain't gonna happen.  Eventually people are going to realize how retarded RMT is, and if not, then I can assure you that at least I won't be involved.

    ..win by how much you pay HAH!!  what a joke.

    "Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."

  • SigilaeaSigilaea Member Posts: 317

    Right before I quit playing Ultima Online, I remember seeing advertisements that would let you buy a character with 80 in all skills (out of a maximum 100) for $20. And that was 10 years ago.

    Early on in that game's history, it took 6 months to get all 7 possible skills to 100. That's how "grindy" it was.  How is that for "game changing" RMT ?

  • colddogcolddog Member Posts: 173
    Originally posted by Troneas


    [quote=Jon Wood]When you go to the movies, you pay for your ticket. You expect that you're going to go in, have a seat to sit in, the movie will play properly, the sound will be working and all that jazz. Everything you need to have watched the movie. That's what the ticket covers. Now, the theatre also offers you the option of buying some popcorn, at a remarkably high makrup. You don't need that popcorn to get your money's worth out of the ticket you bought. You don't need that popcorn to enjoy the movie but it might just enhance your movie-going experience. Nobody yells at the kid behind the counter because it isn't included in the ticket price. It's business. I could completely see your beef though if you bought your ticket and they made you pay extra once you got there for sound.[/quote]
     
    you are completely missing the point jon.
    yes pets and decorative items can enhance your playing experience like popcorn in a cinema,
     
    BUT
     
    paid popcorn cannot be nerfed,
    paid popcorn cannot be made obsolete with a new bigger paid popcorn during the movie session
    popcorn does not affect your status in the cinema
    etc etc
    a better comparison would be:
     
    movie ticket : $10
    buy special goggles to enhance your viewing experience $1
    you dont NEED to buy the goggles, but not doing so will prevent you from enjoying the movie the same way as the guy with goggles sitting next to you.
     
    besides, we all know very well what an apparent harmless rmt pet could mean.
    next you have a bigger pet on the rmt, then the accessories for the pet, suddenly the pet requires food to live which you need to RMT buy, then you can buy the small pet house...
    i was surprised you are being so short sighted on this one.
     
     

     

    I think his analogy was spot on. I think that having a vanity pet does not improve the gaming experience at all in any way. Just like I don't think popcorn does. 

     

    Your analogy is the one that got off base and acted like it was offering a "feature". It is not offering a feature.

  • RavenRaven Member UncommonPosts: 2,005
    Originally posted by Paragus1


    I really don't like item malls if the items purchased in them give advantages in the game.  If they want to charge real life money for fluff items that don't really do anything, I don't really think it's a cause for getting upset.  If they cross the line though down the road, I think people would be justified in being upset.

     

    This certainly brings an interesting point to the table, what exactly is "Influence in Game" it seems most ppl will close themselves in their gameplay style, now for a person that plays WoW to collect every possible pet it does influence their gameplay it means they have to spend money to buy these pets since they cannot be acquired in game by any other means, so it does influence someone's gameplay maybe just not yours.

    Most ppl in WoW do look for fluff items, look at the mounts craze that went around a few months ago.

    image

  • wolfmannwolfmann Member Posts: 1,159

    It sets a presedence(or however it is spelled, I'm Norwegian, sue me!), for dime and nickle you  for content that the subscription is supposed to. pay for.

    Great example of this is SOE and SWG's cardloot. Offering content that the players have been dying to get for years...Only to those that pay extra.

     

    So, for Blizzard to spend countless hours on developing a webshop... It's not just to sell you a pet or two... It's the first step of getting into your wallet and have you pay for the content you're supposed to get in your subscription.

     

    But hey, call it QQ'ing as much as you want. When the day comes and you have to "microtransact"  yourself to get content... Don't start QQ'ing.. Cuz we told ya so.

    imageThe last of the Trackers

  • BruwinBruwin Member UncommonPosts: 54
    Originally posted by Angel64


    This is ridiculous.   Outrage over  2 vanity pets?   If your whole basis is that they are starting to charge real life money for items in game; then where was the outrage over TCG items that could be redeemed in game for mounts, pets, tabards, and wands?    Where was the outrage when you could recruit a friend and get a zebra mount but that also allowed your account to be linked to that recruited friends and get triple the experience for your low level characters while you hunt together and to even have levels granted to low level characters?      Is it perhaps that since you don't want to pay for a vanity pet you don't think anyone else should be allowed to either?    Grow up and actually pick your battles.    Just make sure they are actually real battles and not jealous childish whining.

     

    People always forget about the TCG loot items.

    Like it or not, a lot of players have been asking for this very thing for a long time. As long as TCG has been around, in fact. Many collectors don't like having to sift through dozens upon dozens of cards to get that shiny piece of in game loot that they were looking for. They've been asking Blizzard to just cut out the middle man and offer vanity items for sale. Now they have.

    Let's be entirely realistic here. Blizzard would never have implemented this if there was no market for it. But I've been a long time reader of the WoW forums, longer than I've played in fact. There has been people asking for this. And if there was enough posts of that nature for me to notice, then surely the people who get paid to read those forums and communicate with the rest of the WoW team has noticed them to. They judged that there was enough of a market to make a profit with it.

    People complain about the evil bloodsucking corporation, but I've read literally dozens of posts from people excited about their new pets. And those are the people that Blizzard implemented this for.

  • RuynRuyn Member Posts: 1,052

    People are deluding themselves if they think the RMT will stop at meaningless pets.

    Soon it will be standard to play an MMO with a subscription plan and you will have to buy items to experience all of the content.

    Personally I could care less what Blizzard does.  I just worry about the trickle down effect that will happen when the copy cat companies follow suit.

  • thg7fthg7f Member Posts: 87
    Originally posted by Troneas
     
    you are completely missing the point jon.
    BUT
     paid popcorn cannot be nerfed,
    paid popcorn cannot be made obsolete with a new bigger paid popcorn during the movie session
    popcorn does not affect your status in the cinema
    etc etc
    a better comparison would be:
    movie ticket : $10
    buy special goggles to enhance your viewing experience $1
    you dont NEED to buy the goggles, but not doing so will prevent you from enjoying the movie the same way as the guy with goggles sitting next to you. 
    besides, we all know very well what an apparent harmless rmt pet could mean.
    next you have a bigger pet on the rmt, then the accessories for the pet, suddenly the pet requires food to live which you need to RMT buy, then you can buy the small pet house...
    i was surprised you are being so short sighted on this one.
     
     

     

    No it is you that is missing his point.  He is saying yes there is a potential for all of this, but he still finds it unlikely.  Until it gets a little further along the slope, that getting upset is actually counter-productive to the masses that are mad.

     

    edit:

    And as far as adding more pets and accessories.  Once again, they did not, do not, and will not ever be game-affecting.  They are called non-combat pets for a reason, they give no stats, they don't let you into special dungeons, or fetch epic gear, they are bop so people wont sell them in game for ridiculous prices.   So if they add 1 pet or 1 million pets the differnce would absolute 0.

    It sucks being a hardcore player at heart but a casual player in availability. ~NightCloak

  • colddogcolddog Member Posts: 173
    Originally posted by Ruyn


    People are deluding themselves if they think the RMT will stop at meaningless pets.
    Soon it will be standard to play an MMO with a subscription plan and you will have to buy items to experience all of the content.
    Personally I could care less what Blizzard does.  I just worry about the trickle down effect that will happen when the copy cat companies follow suit.

     

    People are deluding themselves if they think RMT will ever affect gameplay in WoW.

     

    WoW will never require you to pay additional money to have an advantage over another player.

     

    Personally, I could care less. However, I hope that western MMOs adopt the vanity mall that WoW seems to be implementing over the in game advantage mall that other MMOs like EQ2 have adopted.

  • BruwinBruwin Member UncommonPosts: 54
    Originally posted by Ruyn


    People are deluding themselves if they think the RMT will stop at meaningless pets.
    Soon it will be standard to play an MMO with a subscription plan and you will have to buy items to experience all of the content.
    Personally I could care less what Blizzard does.  I just worry about the trickle down effect that will happen when the copy cat companies follow suit.

     

    You make the false assumption that Blizzard is the first to have done this. Fact of the matter is, Blizzard is following a trend that was already there, and there have already been people saying they were willing to pay extra for vanity items.

    Do I believe Blizzard will go and start selling gear? No, not at all. Frankly, they've made it so it's incredibly easy for anyone to get geared in a short amount of time as long as they play. And that's what Blizzard really wants. People playing.

    You can come back and feed me my own hat if they do decide to sell gear, but I'm willing to bet they won't. There's no reason to, and likely won't ever be a reason to.

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    Well, most people don't mind if the RMT influences RPers (costumes etc) or in this case, vanity pet collectors.

  • masterbbb26masterbbb26 Member Posts: 181

    I have no problem with blizzard having a cash shop that sells useless things.

    But something tells me they are testing the waters for something bigger. I cant see blizzard wasting there time unless they are going to expand the cash shop to make some real money.

    And i am glad people are making such a stink over it so a cash shop expansion doesnt happen. Hopefully blizzard will learn there lesson and stay away from expanding their cash shops.

    Fat chance of this though....... people are sheep and will buy cash shop items + buy the game + pay subscription + buy expansions b/c thats the way of the flock

    Currently Playing: Fallen Earth
    Played and liked: TCOS, Vanguard, Guild Wars, DDO
    Played and didn't like: CO, MO, STO, DF, AoC, WAR, WoW, EQ2, EVE, most f2p
    Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, Secret World

  • SidereusSidereus Member Posts: 316
    Originally posted by Euphoryk


    Charging players 2/3s of the monthly sub fee for a single pet is absolutely ridiculous.

    FFS, they are not charging you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    they are offering it to you...you don't have to buy it... It also won't give you any boost in PvP what so ever.

     

    The way some people look at this make me wonder if they are just trying to find something to complain about

     

    YOU DONT WANT THE SPECIAL PET.... FINE DONT BUY IT !

    QUESTION:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xridnasa:
    -
    What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's?
    -
    ANSWER:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sidimazz:
    -
    Kind of, just without the rapist.

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806
    Originally posted by Euphoryk


    Charging players 2/3s of the monthly sub fee for a single pet is absolutely ridiculous.

     

    Are you or anyone else being forced to purchase those pets? They aren't called *vanity* pets for nothing. Vanity can be rather expensive...

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
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