The main problem that I ran into last time I tried to live out in 0.0 is that when ratting for instance, if more than 1 or 2 people tried to rat in a system then there was never enough spawns to go around. The same thing happened with complexes. If more than 1 or 2 people in a region happen to be scanning them down at any time they will be used up within hours and no more will be available till after downtime, meaning you have to travel further and further out in order to get some space to yourself to rat/xplore. So unless you happen to play right after downtime you're SOL. With the new system the more people who perform those activities the more frequently they will spawn, making it easier for more people to do it in any one area. Essentially what CCP is doing is removing the huge isk faucets that were moon mining and moving them into a bunch more smaller ones spread out between more people. This sucks for the players who were lucky enough to be in control of the rediculously profitable moons but it is a benefit to EVERYONE else. With this change it will be possible for those who npc or explore to fund their pvp to have a more steady income stream which will hopefully mean that there is less need for re-imbursement programs in the first place. At least that's the way that I see it.
Very well said and accurate IMO. I hope it turns out the way you suggest. I think WH's helped this to some degree but not nearly enough.
Originally posted by Minsc Gdemami seems to be under the mistaken impression that all regions get lots of high-value moons to fund their cap-ship programs when the reality is that most of them fund them through ratting/mining/complexing or a combination of those plus empire trading/manufacturing alts. The main problem that I ran into last time I tried to live out in 0.0 is that when ratting for instance, if more than 1 or 2 people tried to rat in a system then there was never enough spawns to go around. The same thing happened with complexes. If more than 1 or 2 people in a region happen to be scanning them down at any time they will be used up within hours and no more will be available till after downtime, meaning you have to travel further and further out in order to get some space to yourself to rat/xplore. So unless you happen to play right after downtime you're SOL. With the new system the more people who perform those activities the more frequently they will spawn, making it easier for more people to do it in any one area.
In other words: Because other systems don't have as profitable resources and because in order to make ISK you need to grind there, we will remove all profitability and make everyone to grind, so everything is the same and your wit, your creativity, your effort can be replaced by hours of grinding.
Great work, great logic...
Originally posted by Minsc Essentially what CCP is doing is removing the huge isk faucets that were moon mining and moving them into a bunch more smaller ones spread out between more people. This sucks for the players who were lucky enough to be in control of the rediculously profitable moons but it is a benefit to EVERYONE else. With this change it will be possible for those who npc or explore to fund their pvp to have a more steady income stream which will hopefully mean that there is less need for re-imbursement programs in the first place. At least that's the way that I see it.
Ridiculous profit?? Do you even have an idea how much is Dyspro moon worth? Of course you don't. It is 6.5B per month with current Jita prices.
Originally posted by Gdemami In other words: Because other systems don't have as profitable resources and because in order to make ISK you need to grind there, we will remove all profitability and make everyone to grind, so everything is the same and your wit, your creativity, your effort can be replaced by hours of grinding.
Ridiculous profit?? Do you even have an idea how much is Dyspro moon worth?
Of course you don't. It is 6.5B per month with current Jita prices.
And under the new system we figured it to be about 1.2 bil per month. Is it still profitable yes.. Is it the current I don't have a shot in hell against the 100+b per month passive income that Goon has... nope. Will I be able to actually find somebody in goon space to kill after this... hopefully so. 6.5 bill a month for effectively 2 hours worth of work a month is pretty much about as unbalanced as you can get. Also you can push up the Dypso profits another bil or two if you have a T2 ship BPO which most of the Dypso alliances have. Current moon mining profits needs to be reduced because 0.0 is about as static as you can get. Fights for attrition is pretty much gone on the Major Moon goo alliances from rediculous reserve accounts in the Trillions.
I have to agree with one of the first posters the only people who are complaining about this are the ones who don't want to have to do one damn thing and will still be able to spend isk like its no tommorrow.
Originally posted by Nicoli 6.5 bill a month for effectively 2 hours worth of work a month is pretty much about as unbalanced as you can get.
What's unbalanced about that?!
I assume you want everyone making 50M per hour like missions grinders no matter what you do so the game is balanced and everyone has the same 'chances'.
This is a principle of grind - stupid, repetitive, accesible activity that rewards everyone the same.
EVE for dummies.
We had this discussion already, Nicoli. Where you see imbalance and bad mechanics, I see an opportunity and profit - something to focus your effort on.
This guy is like talking to a brick wall. No point in having a discussion with him period folks since he has no desire to consider any other view points other then his own. 2 pages is enough here so lets move on IMHO.
As for the new Dominion changes to 0.0 space and sovereignty well they have me considering a return to the game as it will change things around and remove the stagnate feel of 0.0 space that I grew bored with after a while.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
6.5 bill a month for effectively 2 hours worth of work a month is pretty much about as unbalanced as you can get.
What's unbalanced about that?!
I assume you want everyone making 50M per hour like missions grinders no matter what you do so the game is balanced and everyone has the same 'chances'.
This is a principle of grind - stupid, repetitive, accesible activity that rewards everyone the same.
EVE for dummies.
We had this discussion already, Nicoli. Where you see imbalance and bad mechanics, I see an opportunity and profit - something to focus your effort on.
You don't want to grind or work in a MMO? Then don't play mmos.
Originally posted by Nicoli 6.5 bill a month for effectively 2 hours worth of work a month is pretty much about as unbalanced as you can get.
What's unbalanced about that?!
I assume you want everyone making 50M per hour like missions grinders no matter what you do so the game is balanced and everyone has the same 'chances'. This is a principle of grind - stupid, repetitive, accesible activity that rewards everyone the same. EVE for dummies.
We had this discussion already, Nicoli. Where you see imbalance and bad mechanics, I see an opportunity and profit - something to focus your effort on.
You don't want to grind or work in a MMO? Then don't play mmos.
Isk with near no effort equals unbalanced.
The problem is that it was/is a ISK faucet with no effort for the few who run the major alliances that make billions if not trillions of ISK every month. If you were one of the peons (or pet corps/alliances) then ratting, mining or exploring in a system with 20 other people doing the same activity for themselves would be what you depend on and this is just not going to cut if you are losing ships due to a major conflict going on or if you just like to pvp a lot. So unless you do other things such as mission running level 4's until your eyes bleed back in Empire space then you have to do a lot of work to maintain yourself ISK wise.
Most compensation programs for major alliances are for BS and higher class ships and strictly only if you lose said ships in alliance PvP only operations even then some alliances are stingy on handing out ISK/ships. Furthermore if you loss your ship, modules and implants doing something else then you have to recover that lose yourself.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Originally posted by M1sf1t The problem is that it was/is a ISK faucet with no effort for the few who run the major alliances that make billions if not trillions of ISK every month. If you were one of the peons (or pet corps/alliances) then ratting, mining or exploring in a system with 20 other people doing the same activity for themselves. This is what you depend on and this is just not going to cut if you are losing ships do to a major conflict going on or if you just like to pvp a lot so unless you do other things such as mission running level 4's until your eyes bleed back in Empire space then you have to do a lot of work to maintain yourself ISK. Most compensation programs for major alliances are for BS and higher class ships and strictly only if you lose said ships in alliance PvP only operations even then some alliances are stingy on handing out ISK. Furthermore if you lose your ship, modules and implants doing something else then you have to recover that loose yourself.
Not everyone is impotent individuum who finds anything out of the reach imbalanced, unfair or effortless.
While I understand that diminishing skills and effort from the game makes it more enjoyable for people like yourself because they would consider such changes to be more fair, it certainly does not make the game better. All it will do is to attract more subscribers - subscribers that prefer skills not to matter.
A year ago, I was ranting on these forums how EVE is going mainstream and generaly going dumb because the playerbase will affect further development of the game. Well, here we go after a year with continuous dumbening of EVE.
The problem is that it was/is a ISK faucet with no effort for the few who run the major alliances that make billions if not trillions of ISK every month. If you were one of the peons (or pet corps/alliances) then ratting, mining or exploring in a system with 20 other people doing the same activity for themselves. This is what you depend on and this is just not going to cut if you are losing ships do to a major conflict going on or if you just like to pvp a lot so unless you do other things such as mission running level 4's until your eyes bleed back in Empire space then you have to do a lot of work to maintain yourself ISK.
Most compensation programs for major alliances are for BS and higher class ships and strictly only if you lose said ships in alliance PvP only operations even then some alliances are stingy on handing out ISK. Furthermore if you lose your ship, modules and implants doing something else then you have to recover that loose yourself.
Well, here we go after a year with continuous dumbening of EVE.
it's a sacrifice i wouldnt mind if it means you wouldnt post here anymore. Making things "more fair" is also called "balancing" btw.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Obviously your entitled to your opinion that the proposed changes to 0.0 are going to kill and or ruin eve.
However it's not an opinion that I share.
Currently the focus of 0.0 pvp (fleet based pvp) is the capturing of or defending certain static unchanging systems due to the resources that system contains (moon minerals).
Type 64 Moons allow the current powerblocks to afford thier current stranglehold on those systems and lower quality moons, T32 & T16 allow them to support an expensive ship replacement policy. Vast swathes of empty, unpopulated space are typical of all Sov[n] areas, with the holding alliance population only located in a few key areas.
Dominion changes the above.
In dominion you will only hold what you can logistically and financially support or maintain.
0.0 space will be opened, there will be an oportunity for newer and younger corps & alliances to move into and populate 0.0
in short you will have more competition, which means more oportunity for pew-pew
the only prohibitation to increased pvp in 0.0 from Dominion, is the proliferation of NAP's within the organisation that move there.
6.5 bill a month for effectively 2 hours worth of work a month is pretty much about as unbalanced as you can get.
What's unbalanced about that?!
I assume you want everyone making 50M per hour like missions grinders no matter what you do so the game is balanced and everyone has the same 'chances'.
This is a principle of grind - stupid, repetitive, accesible activity that rewards everyone the same.
EVE for dummies.
We had this discussion already, Nicoli. Where you see imbalance and bad mechanics, I see an opportunity and profit - something to focus your effort on.
So, technically, you're worried people might actually get a chance soon at shooting you off your damn moon? Is that it?
There's nothing balanced about 1 corps holding onto a system simply because it nets SO much that nothing can touch you. Basically anyway.
EDIT: I'm not saying, however, that creativity and plain outsmarting shouldn't make you stronger and better. It just shouldn't make you "immortal".
Invalid argumenting as usual. RL arguments are irrelevant. This is a game, not a job. Roaming and blowing up ships might be boring for you, not for people actualy doing it.
Yeah, tell me how I am single minded. Please refrain from posting in this thread, Enkindu. You aren't posting anything consructive and all you do is to bringing it to personal level only. It will be appreciated, thank you.
Gotta love the tears of dem self declared pvp gods. Keep the tears coming :=))
Been living in 0.0 for the last few years. I don't see what is going to change for myself really... I'll still be ratting, pvping, exploring and etc. The only difference is when my alliance decides to conquer a system and such, things will be playing out differently. Aside from that, 0.0 is still 0.0...
0.0 is not a PVP zone... PVP occurs mostly only around the borders and entry systems.
Comments
In other words: Because other systems don't have as profitable resources and because in order to make ISK you need to grind there, we will remove all profitability and make everyone to grind, so everything is the same and your wit, your creativity, your effort can be replaced by hours of grinding.
Great work, great logic...
Ridiculous profit?? Do you even have an idea how much is Dyspro moon worth?
Of course you don't. It is 6.5B per month with current Jita prices.
And under the new system we figured it to be about 1.2 bil per month. Is it still profitable yes.. Is it the current I don't have a shot in hell against the 100+b per month passive income that Goon has... nope. Will I be able to actually find somebody in goon space to kill after this... hopefully so. 6.5 bill a month for effectively 2 hours worth of work a month is pretty much about as unbalanced as you can get. Also you can push up the Dypso profits another bil or two if you have a T2 ship BPO which most of the Dypso alliances have. Current moon mining profits needs to be reduced because 0.0 is about as static as you can get. Fights for attrition is pretty much gone on the Major Moon goo alliances from rediculous reserve accounts in the Trillions.
I have to agree with one of the first posters the only people who are complaining about this are the ones who don't want to have to do one damn thing and will still be able to spend isk like its no tommorrow.
I assume you want everyone making 50M per hour like missions grinders no matter what you do so the game is balanced and everyone has the same 'chances'.
This is a principle of grind - stupid, repetitive, accesible activity that rewards everyone the same.
EVE for dummies.
We had this discussion already, Nicoli. Where you see imbalance and bad mechanics, I see an opportunity and profit - something to focus your effort on.
This guy is like talking to a brick wall. No point in having a discussion with him period folks since he has no desire to consider any other view points other then his own. 2 pages is enough here so lets move on IMHO.
As for the new Dominion changes to 0.0 space and sovereignty well they have me considering a return to the game as it will change things around and remove the stagnate feel of 0.0 space that I grew bored with after a while.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I assume you want everyone making 50M per hour like missions grinders no matter what you do so the game is balanced and everyone has the same 'chances'.
This is a principle of grind - stupid, repetitive, accesible activity that rewards everyone the same.
EVE for dummies.
We had this discussion already, Nicoli. Where you see imbalance and bad mechanics, I see an opportunity and profit - something to focus your effort on.
You don't want to grind or work in a MMO? Then don't play mmos.
Isk with near no effort equals unbalanced.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
The problem is that it was/is a ISK faucet with no effort for the few who run the major alliances that make billions if not trillions of ISK every month. If you were one of the peons (or pet corps/alliances) then ratting, mining or exploring in a system with 20 other people doing the same activity for themselves would be what you depend on and this is just not going to cut if you are losing ships due to a major conflict going on or if you just like to pvp a lot. So unless you do other things such as mission running level 4's until your eyes bleed back in Empire space then you have to do a lot of work to maintain yourself ISK wise.
Most compensation programs for major alliances are for BS and higher class ships and strictly only if you lose said ships in alliance PvP only operations even then some alliances are stingy on handing out ISK/ships. Furthermore if you loss your ship, modules and implants doing something else then you have to recover that lose yourself.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Not everyone is impotent individuum who finds anything out of the reach imbalanced, unfair or effortless.
While I understand that diminishing skills and effort from the game makes it more enjoyable for people like yourself because they would consider such changes to be more fair, it certainly does not make the game better.
All it will do is to attract more subscribers - subscribers that prefer skills not to matter.
A year ago, I was ranting on these forums how EVE is going mainstream and generaly going dumb because the playerbase will affect further development of the game.
Well, here we go after a year with continuous dumbening of EVE.
Well, here we go after a year with continuous dumbening of EVE.
it's a sacrifice i wouldnt mind if it means you wouldnt post here anymore. Making things "more fair" is also called "balancing" btw.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Obviously your entitled to your opinion that the proposed changes to 0.0 are going to kill and or ruin eve.
However it's not an opinion that I share.
Currently the focus of 0.0 pvp (fleet based pvp) is the capturing of or defending certain static unchanging systems due to the resources that system contains (moon minerals).
Type 64 Moons allow the current powerblocks to afford thier current stranglehold on those systems and lower quality moons, T32 & T16 allow them to support an expensive ship replacement policy. Vast swathes of empty, unpopulated space are typical of all Sov[n] areas, with the holding alliance population only located in a few key areas.
Dominion changes the above.
In dominion you will only hold what you can logistically and financially support or maintain.
0.0 space will be opened, there will be an oportunity for newer and younger corps & alliances to move into and populate 0.0
in short you will have more competition, which means more oportunity for pew-pew
the only prohibitation to increased pvp in 0.0 from Dominion, is the proliferation of NAP's within the organisation that move there.
I assume you want everyone making 50M per hour like missions grinders no matter what you do so the game is balanced and everyone has the same 'chances'.
This is a principle of grind - stupid, repetitive, accesible activity that rewards everyone the same.
EVE for dummies.
We had this discussion already, Nicoli. Where you see imbalance and bad mechanics, I see an opportunity and profit - something to focus your effort on.
So, technically, you're worried people might actually get a chance soon at shooting you off your damn moon? Is that it?
There's nothing balanced about 1 corps holding onto a system simply because it nets SO much that nothing can touch you. Basically anyway.
EDIT: I'm not saying, however, that creativity and plain outsmarting shouldn't make you stronger and better. It just shouldn't make you "immortal".
Gotta love the tears of dem self declared pvp gods. Keep the tears coming :=))
Been living in 0.0 for the last few years. I don't see what is going to change for myself really... I'll still be ratting, pvping, exploring and etc. The only difference is when my alliance decides to conquer a system and such, things will be playing out differently. Aside from that, 0.0 is still 0.0...
0.0 is not a PVP zone... PVP occurs mostly only around the borders and entry systems.