For controls, fluid movement, speed, leaving a lot of room to the player to make his own style; WoW hands down. For depth in skills/mechanics, Guild Wars all the way.
Now if only I could get a game combining both of those aspects into one.
For controls, fluid movement, speed, leaving a lot of room to the player to make his own style; WoW hands down. For depth in skills/mechanics, Guild Wars all the way. Now if only I could get a game combining both of those aspects into one.
I feel the same way with this.
I would like to see a non targeting system done well though that isn't in the first person mode and isn't some garbage game like AoC.
Originally posted by luckturtz Right now Aoc,best by far.
I agree, even if it does hurt (physically) if I play a melee character for a long time while using the keyboard to do combos. Probably be easier if I had mouse buttons bound to the commands.
DDO and Fallen Earth seemed at least mildly interesting and had some different combat than I'm used to.
LOL it never seems to amaze me how WOW always seems to have the best this or that. WOW battle system does not compare to Spellborn any any way. Hell Runes of magic is even better than WOW even if it is a WOW clone.
I would also have to go with CoH on this one. The combat is fast and fluid, and great fun. In a team environment it beats all other games I have played. If the game wasn't so repetitious and the AE hadn't launched, I'd probably still be playing.
Without the slightest shadow of a doubt, DDO has the best combat system. It's the only game I've played where combat is actually the fun part of the game, and not just a tedious chore you have to go through to achieve your goals.
tbh tabula rasa had a pretty nice battle system too, WoW has smooth and fast combat, if you disagree, level to 80 and do some serious rated arena , spellborn has a unique intruiging battle system also...
Im gonna go with Planetside, back when there used to be those epic 150+ vs 150+ players fighting at once in epic battles.
I still remember the time i killed two reavers and a mosquito in one life flying my mosquito
Of course, its always fun when you ran into a guy in the middle of nowhere, and instead of killing him you hacked into his vehical and hijack it, leaving him with a rather long walk.
I would also have to go with CoH on this one. The combat is fast and fluid, and great fun. In a team environment it beats all other games I have played. If the game wasn't so repetitious and the AE hadn't launched, I'd probably still be playing.
CoX combat is definitely my favorite. Like Junzo said, Fast and Fluid. And teams just mesh so well. I've never playing any MMOG where teaming felt so coordinated and natural. Oh, and Junzo, you quit because of AE? Bah, the whole AE thing has leveled off now. Personally, I just do AE missions that my friends create when I am in the mood, but otherwise just ignore that feature completely. The devs are going to have to play a more active role in sorting through all the AE missions and do a better job of categorizing them so that finding the diamonds in the ruff is easier.
You can dodge a beam attack by leaping sideways or jumping to cover
Flanking attacks, tumbling in a roll to avoid a giant swinging a club, tripping, hamstringing, sapping, etc. Positioning for attacks has meaning. Along with a massive spell list with varied spell effects that can work in sync with the melee system
It has the most active and involved combat system out there and I have played most of the AAA titles.
DDO has troubles/problems in other areas but combat surely isn't in that list
First of all, many of the so called MMORPGs are not RPGs at all, just MMOs.
There's so little choice to be had with where you want to bring your character in WoW or AoC, that I won't even mention them.
I utterly hate games with spell/combo rotations. Most MMOs out there are rotation based. WoW most of all. 1..2..3..4..sleep...1..2..3..4..5 ... ad nauseum ... wake up, quit game. AoC is only a step better, and only with melee even then. Basically it's rotation and good circle strafe.
So what gets my vote? DDO for PvE and GW for PvP.
DDO combat is fun, but it's not just the combat, it's the unique builds you can create. Aside from this, every single enemy needs a different approach for every class/build. There is no spell rotation. You actually have to put a little thought in to it. People loved grouping with me, even though I only had casual level weapons. I simply knew how to put them to use, and that's what mattered. Didn't have to give up my real life to be good in an MMO, like WoW would require. Anyway, DDO has all these endless options. wonderful.
And then, there's team dynamics, where it's a whole new world. I currently play permadeath. We're level 12 (2 RL friends and me). DDO players know what that means.
Oh, and to close my opinion with arrogance: many MMO players are too stupid for DDO.
Originally posted by pojung Perhaps a better post would be one that questions the forum base not 'which MMO has the best battle system' but rather 'why does the battle system you enjoy most appeal to you the way it does'? This would yield more productive discussions.
I'm going to agree with Pojung and try to answer along his lines of thought:
When playing an MMO, and I know I'm in the minority here, what I enjoy the most is the feeling of belonging to a clockwork ensemble, similar to the experience of playing a well rehearsed piece with a chamber music group, or playing a game in a well-honed sport team. It's the game's AI's function to throw curve balls to add variety and the feeling of unexpected thrills to the basic excitement of group work.
In that respect, my favorite combat systems so far have been slow, rather than fast, and heavily dependent on group interaction. Final Fantasy XI is, probably, the first game in my list of MMOs that follow this type of system.
When playing FFXI, you soon learn that spamming attacks or heals is usually a guarantee of doom... also, that it is always important to find the right balance and interact with others. Skillchains, Magicbursts, Trick Attacks, Sneak Attacks, Experience Chains... these are only a few of the adrenaline-inducing mechanisms that depend on clockwork team interaction. Besides these mechanisms, also typical of FFXI are two-person tanking (the main tank a ninja shielded by their own shadows, the other a temporary distraction to allow the ninja to recast their ephemeral doubles when they die...) and front-line healing (a tank/healer that draws his own reserves of energy from hurting and being hurt, but is not self-suficient as a tank, needing either heals or an alternate provoker in the team...)
After a couple of 75-level characters in WoW, and many, many more in assorted games in the genre (from EQ1 to AoC, WAR and Aion) I've yet to experience a single dungeon or raid in which the interaction with the group becomes defined by this sort of coordinated interplay and attention to each other's actions. Usually all it takes in these games is for people to focus on their job's skills and wait for the cool-down timers to reset. I cannot count anymore the times I, or others in my party, have died without anybody else in the group noticing their absence for a while.
I've discovered that being inclined to the type of interplay FFXI offers seems to be a cultural trait, and that for that reason, many players take the reductionist formula of assuming that Americans will hate it while, say, Japanese Players will love it. In my opinion many factors contribute to the lack of popularity to this level of complex interplay in party gaming. Conducting semi-surveys and exploratory conversations, I've found that people that prefer football to either baseball or soccer, usually tend (mark the word! not an absolute) to dislike FFXI. Age seems to be a factor too... As well as expectations defined by your previous gaming experience. In any event, no amount of talking or explaining, even coaxing or cajoling will make someone like FFXI, if he/she doesn't feel inclined to things that take longer to gratify than their expectations dictate. It sounds obvious, but it also seems to be the bottom line.
Originally posted by pojung Perhaps a better post would be one that questions the forum base not 'which MMO has the best battle system' but rather 'why does the battle system you enjoy most appeal to you the way it does'? This would yield more productive discussions.
I'm going to agree with Pojung and try to answer along his lines of thought:
........ [ Just wanted to shorten my reply ]
In any event, no amount of talking or explaining, even coaxing or cajoling will make someone like FFXI, if he/she doesn't feel inclined to things that take longer to gratify than their expectations dictate. It sounds obvious, but it also seems to be the bottom line.
I agree 100% there isn't a better overall designed combat system. Playing in a good party no matter the job felt very rewarding. Although I really hated how long groups took to make, and how the different style of dds just were not close enough in damage output to make them attractive outside of linkshell parties.
I think if they had just tweaked mobs or player damage for dds to be a bit more equal, then making parties would have been 100x more fluid.
LOTRO for me so far... many of the classes have locked tiers and responsive actions that are only unlocked when 'something' happens. Makes every fight so much more indepth than just 1,2,1,2 stun mob 1,2,1,2 mob dead... rinse repeat of games like WoW and several others I've played.
I agree on FFXI because it stayed true to the traditions of the game by having fluid, and reatlime, menus systems and skill chains (for a while)... but for me, I would have to say the best "battle" system I have seen is in games like Mabinogi and SMT. I don't like the games in general, but the rock/paper/scissors combat is great since it uses the traditional hotbar, but relies on to-the-moment choices. I really like FPS style gameplay, but I don't consider that gameplay a "system" as much as I do "quantum theory". Too many "if's" and "could be's" the more action intensice you get, but a "system" is reliable and managable - like the aforementioned one.
Oh, how could I forget DDO?!
Loved how it worked, but the reliance on rolls killed a lot of it. If it was pure action it would have been locked down tight, and I'd proly be still rocking it. They really should have ported that combat, sans chance reliance, to LotRO - all tat kept me there was the music system.
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Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Comments
For controls, fluid movement, speed, leaving a lot of room to the player to make his own style; WoW hands down. For depth in skills/mechanics, Guild Wars all the way.
Now if only I could get a game combining both of those aspects into one.
Definitely Darkfall Online. Being able to aim, shoot and melee with not a single hint of auto-target completely floats my boat.
I feel the same way with this.
I would like to see a non targeting system done well though that isn't in the first person mode and isn't some garbage game like AoC.
AoC by far.
I agree. AOC is the best for combat. Champions is pretty good to for making you feel you are in the action.
for me the best battle system has Spellborn and today i will check fallen earth (I heard it is good)
Spellborn w/o any doubt
DDO and Fallen Earth seemed at least mildly interesting and had some different combat than I'm used to.
Ningen wa ningen da.
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LOL it never seems to amaze me how WOW always seems to have the best this or that. WOW battle system does not compare to Spellborn any any way. Hell Runes of magic is even better than WOW even if it is a WOW clone.
I vote for GW, because it's fast-paced, unlike the WoW-styled one. Haven't played AoC yet, but I'm pretty sure I'd prefer GW's.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
I would also have to go with CoH on this one. The combat is fast and fluid, and great fun. In a team environment it beats all other games I have played. If the game wasn't so repetitious and the AE hadn't launched, I'd probably still be playing.
Without the slightest shadow of a doubt, DDO has the best combat system. It's the only game I've played where combat is actually the fun part of the game, and not just a tedious chore you have to go through to achieve your goals.
tbh tabula rasa had a pretty nice battle system too, WoW has smooth and fast combat, if you disagree, level to 80 and do some serious rated arena
, spellborn has a unique intruiging battle system also...
Im gonna go with Planetside, back when there used to be those epic 150+ vs 150+ players fighting at once in epic battles.
I still remember the time i killed two reavers and a mosquito in one life flying my mosquito
Of course, its always fun when you ran into a guy in the middle of nowhere, and instead of killing him you hacked into his vehical and hijack it, leaving him with a rather long walk.
CoX combat is definitely my favorite. Like Junzo said, Fast and Fluid. And teams just mesh so well. I've never playing any MMOG where teaming felt so coordinated and natural. Oh, and Junzo, you quit because of AE? Bah, the whole AE thing has leveled off now. Personally, I just do AE missions that my friends create when I am in the mood, but otherwise just ignore that feature completely. The devs are going to have to play a more active role in sorting through all the AE missions and do a better job of categorizing them so that finding the diamonds in the ruff is easier.
AoC and Everquest....
Mainly because I prefer "regular" combat over special spamming....
Another vote for DDO
...by far
You can shield block an arrow in flight
You can dodge a beam attack by leaping sideways or jumping to cover
Flanking attacks, tumbling in a roll to avoid a giant swinging a club, tripping, hamstringing, sapping, etc. Positioning for attacks has meaning. Along with a massive spell list with varied spell effects that can work in sync with the melee system
It has the most active and involved combat system out there and I have played most of the AAA titles.
DDO has troubles/problems in other areas but combat surely isn't in that list
First of all, many of the so called MMORPGs are not RPGs at all, just MMOs.
There's so little choice to be had with where you want to bring your character in WoW or AoC, that I won't even mention them.
I utterly hate games with spell/combo rotations. Most MMOs out there are rotation based. WoW most of all. 1..2..3..4..sleep...1..2..3..4..5 ... ad nauseum ... wake up, quit game. AoC is only a step better, and only with melee even then. Basically it's rotation and good circle strafe.
So what gets my vote? DDO for PvE and GW for PvP.
DDO combat is fun, but it's not just the combat, it's the unique builds you can create. Aside from this, every single enemy needs a different approach for every class/build. There is no spell rotation. You actually have to put a little thought in to it. People loved grouping with me, even though I only had casual level weapons. I simply knew how to put them to use, and that's what mattered. Didn't have to give up my real life to be good in an MMO, like WoW would require. Anyway, DDO has all these endless options. wonderful.
And then, there's team dynamics, where it's a whole new world. I currently play permadeath. We're level 12 (2 RL friends and me). DDO players know what that means.
Oh, and to close my opinion with arrogance: many MMO players are too stupid for DDO.
I'm going to agree with Pojung and try to answer along his lines of thought:
When playing an MMO, and I know I'm in the minority here, what I enjoy the most is the feeling of belonging to a clockwork ensemble, similar to the experience of playing a well rehearsed piece with a chamber music group, or playing a game in a well-honed sport team. It's the game's AI's function to throw curve balls to add variety and the feeling of unexpected thrills to the basic excitement of group work.
In that respect, my favorite combat systems so far have been slow, rather than fast, and heavily dependent on group interaction. Final Fantasy XI is, probably, the first game in my list of MMOs that follow this type of system.
When playing FFXI, you soon learn that spamming attacks or heals is usually a guarantee of doom... also, that it is always important to find the right balance and interact with others. Skillchains, Magicbursts, Trick Attacks, Sneak Attacks, Experience Chains... these are only a few of the adrenaline-inducing mechanisms that depend on clockwork team interaction. Besides these mechanisms, also typical of FFXI are two-person tanking (the main tank a ninja shielded by their own shadows, the other a temporary distraction to allow the ninja to recast their ephemeral doubles when they die...) and front-line healing (a tank/healer that draws his own reserves of energy from hurting and being hurt, but is not self-suficient as a tank, needing either heals or an alternate provoker in the team...)
After a couple of 75-level characters in WoW, and many, many more in assorted games in the genre (from EQ1 to AoC, WAR and Aion) I've yet to experience a single dungeon or raid in which the interaction with the group becomes defined by this sort of coordinated interplay and attention to each other's actions. Usually all it takes in these games is for people to focus on their job's skills and wait for the cool-down timers to reset. I cannot count anymore the times I, or others in my party, have died without anybody else in the group noticing their absence for a while.
I've discovered that being inclined to the type of interplay FFXI offers seems to be a cultural trait, and that for that reason, many players take the reductionist formula of assuming that Americans will hate it while, say, Japanese Players will love it. In my opinion many factors contribute to the lack of popularity to this level of complex interplay in party gaming. Conducting semi-surveys and exploratory conversations, I've found that people that prefer football to either baseball or soccer, usually tend (mark the word! not an absolute) to dislike FFXI. Age seems to be a factor too... As well as expectations defined by your previous gaming experience. In any event, no amount of talking or explaining, even coaxing or cajoling will make someone like FFXI, if he/she doesn't feel inclined to things that take longer to gratify than their expectations dictate. It sounds obvious, but it also seems to be the bottom line.
I'm going to agree with Pojung and try to answer along his lines of thought:
........ [ Just wanted to shorten my reply ]
In any event, no amount of talking or explaining, even coaxing or cajoling will make someone like FFXI, if he/she doesn't feel inclined to things that take longer to gratify than their expectations dictate. It sounds obvious, but it also seems to be the bottom line.
I agree 100% there isn't a better overall designed combat system. Playing in a good party no matter the job felt very rewarding. Although I really hated how long groups took to make, and how the different style of dds just were not close enough in damage output to make them attractive outside of linkshell parties.
I think if they had just tweaked mobs or player damage for dds to be a bit more equal, then making parties would have been 100x more fluid.
Another vote for Age of conan. Also enjoyed FFIX, but it seems kinda stale in comparison to AoC.
--
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
LOTRO for me so far... many of the classes have locked tiers and responsive actions that are only unlocked when 'something' happens. Makes every fight so much more indepth than just 1,2,1,2 stun mob 1,2,1,2 mob dead... rinse repeat of games like WoW and several others I've played.
Conan: Good, but can get button mashy
DDO: Very solid and fun, all attacks are aimed.
Spellborn: Nice system, but far too laggy and unoptimised to fully support it.
WoW: Always been very responsive and smooth, and is yet to be topped in a point and click type of game.(imo)
Lunia: An interesting take that was more arcadey action, but far too laggy.
I agree on FFXI because it stayed true to the traditions of the game by having fluid, and reatlime, menus systems and skill chains (for a while)... but for me, I would have to say the best "battle" system I have seen is in games like Mabinogi and SMT. I don't like the games in general, but the rock/paper/scissors combat is great since it uses the traditional hotbar, but relies on to-the-moment choices. I really like FPS style gameplay, but I don't consider that gameplay a "system" as much as I do "quantum theory". Too many "if's" and "could be's" the more action intensice you get, but a "system" is reliable and managable - like the aforementioned one.
Oh, how could I forget DDO?!
Loved how it worked, but the reliance on rolls killed a lot of it. If it was pure action it would have been locked down tight, and I'd proly be still rocking it. They really should have ported that combat, sans chance reliance, to LotRO - all tat kept me there was the music system.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture