Originally posted by Ginkeq Blame games like WoW. In Everquest it was nearly impossible to solo with most classes. And even of the people who could solo, the exp/gear wasn't as good as in groups (unless you're a necro or something). They should force grouping on players, more and more MMORPGs are becoming single player games. It's sad that players continue to put up with companies like Blizzard and NCSoft throwing game content in instances that are magically locked away from the rest of the world. MMORPGs should have 1 world, where the content is extremely difficult and requires grouping in order to kill. That is a true MMORPG, the ones we have now are a sad joke. I wonder if we will ever get something challenging again, I miss EQ's PvE system.
Solo doesn't mean easy.
Group doesn't mean difficult.
When I solo as a healer, I have to be responsible for my health, my mana, my damage output, my mitigation, pulling and crowd control. When I group as a healer, all I have to do is spamheal a tank and manage my mana.
Tell me again which requires more skill?
In my opinion, spamming the heal in a group requires 100 x more skill than not having to cooperate and coordinate with anyone and playing solo in an MMORPG.
I think when I play a solo healer that it is 100 x easier than playing in a group, since I can easily and without any thought at all manage my own health, mana, damage output, mitigation, pulling and crowd control. After a week or two of playing the game I can do that almost literally with my eyes closed. With a group? No way, never know what might happen.
I understand you have a different opinion, but neither of us is right or wrong. That's why we need different games to play.
i play both solo and group, mostly solo due to my schedule... but from your argument about grouping being more difficult..... about the difficulties of coordinating with other people???? do you play with people that don't speak the same language???? how can coordinating be the hard part of your game? i have never had a problem with my guilds coordinating before or during a fight... maybe because we don't type in game, but seriously, grouping will always be easier(unless you play with horrid pugs, or play on foreign servers that don't speak your language), then soloing. grouping may not be the fastest way to do what you want, what with having to deal with other players BS, but it will be safer. how you can claim there's less skill in soloing then grouping, is beyond me. it's a different skill, but it's neither more or less, depending on the game. i love the idea of a mmo that requires grouping to play due to the difficulty..... and i'd still solo in it, because i also enjoy a challenge. don't blame soloers for making your game easier and no fun for you, blame devs for not maintaining a proper balance between the two.
It's a total snoozefest. I've had more fun watching paint dry.
Sure, It's nice to have some alone time to yourself every now and then and be able to solo when grouping just isn't viable but when the majority of the core game is composed of everyone soloing, It's just soo dull to me.
You can argue that most games end-game isn't very solo friendly but who wants to put up with the entire journey to there If It's all a solo fest?
Snoozers, I think I'd rather play with a wooden toy car and take naps than spend more than half of my time soloing in MMORPG's.
Blame games like WoW. In Everquest it was nearly impossible to solo with most classes. And even of the people who could solo, the exp/gear wasn't as good as in groups (unless you're a necro or something).
They should force grouping on players, more and more MMORPGs are becoming single player games. It's sad that players continue to put up with companies like Blizzard and NCSoft throwing game content in instances that are magically locked away from the rest of the world.
MMORPGs should have 1 world, where the content is extremely difficult and requires grouping in order to kill. That is a true MMORPG, the ones we have now are a sad joke. I wonder if we will ever get something challenging again, I miss EQ's PvE system.
It's a total snoozefest. I've had more fun watching paint dry.
It beats trying to find players who are in your zone, at the right time of day, at the same quest stages, with the right amount of time to spare, who won't go AFK when mommy tells them the microwave just dinged and who aren't complete brain-dead tossers who you'd be highly reluctant to even pass the time of day with in real life.
Me, soloing, with some nice tunes playing in the headset - good times in comparison.
Sure, I really like splitting my loot, XP and rare drops with some wadhead who can't solo content that is, by its very nature, soloable and who cries and drums his heels on the floor because more self-sufficient players don't actually need them. Hoo boy, that sounds like FUN!
As long as there are people in an MMO who gather resources, sell loot and craft items I want to buy in the Bazaar/Auction House, that's about as much contact with strangers as I need. I love the thriving player-driven economy, the bonus and seasonal content released by the game publishers, but I simply don't pug. Ever.
This must be the 999th thread started by whiners who think grouping is The Way, and I actually LIVE for the day when you all actually get a game where you MUST group, because then you'll all bugger off to it and QQ less.
I hate soloing. Whenever I solo, be it in any game and in any time, it feels like I'm a random bot trying to get some pixels in a stupid game, in fact I don't even think while soloing at all. For that reason I prefer to go out, work or study when all I have left to do in a MMO is solo. BUT, I'm not inflexible, so I understand there's people out there that enjoy this kind of gameplay.
I'm always in a group when I play a MMO, mostly because I enjoy it and cause I often roll a support role. I don't like the idea to force people to group in a game (except in some harder occasions where's almost impossible for 1 person to play alone) because theres two sides in this: the player forced don't want to play with me, and I wouldn't want to force someone to play with me, so the effectiveness of the group would be aggrieved.
No one needs to complain. Groups are easy to find (there'll always be people that likes to group), particularly when in a guild, and they do deserve a better "reward X effort" than anyone that solos. On the otherside, the people that enjoys soloing should continue to have the right to play the way they want, without being forced to do something unpleasant for them.
Playing: Starcraft II. Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft. Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
Hmm. Since this thread appears to be for the purposes of randomly stating ones own preferences, I would just like to announce to the community that I am quite partial to Chop brown sauce. I don't know what's in it, I don't really care. All I know is that it's awesome. Huh, strangely cathartic. Edit: I like brie too. Edit2: I'm sorry, I lied about the brie. I just wasn't sure how to spell roquefort. I looked it up.
It's a total snoozefest. I've had more fun watching paint dry.
Sure, It's nice to have some alone time to yourself every now and then and be able to solo when grouping just isn't viable but when the majority of the core game is composed of everyone soloing, It's just soo dull to me.
You can argue that most games end-game isn't very solo friendly but who wants to put up with the entire journey to there If It's all a solo fest?
Snoozers, I think I'd rather play with a wooden toy car and take naps than spend more than half of my time soloing in MMORPG's.
There are some MMOs where grouping is required. EVE / DDO / FFXII / DF
Play those or stop whining. Not all mmos are for you. Sorry.
Originally posted by Ginkeq Blame games like WoW. In Everquest it was nearly impossible to solo with most classes. And even of the people who could solo, the exp/gear wasn't as good as in groups (unless you're a necro or something). They should force grouping on players, more and more MMORPGs are becoming single player games. It's sad that players continue to put up with companies like Blizzard and NCSoft throwing game content in instances that are magically locked away from the rest of the world. MMORPGs should have 1 world, where the content is extremely difficult and requires grouping in order to kill. That is a true MMORPG, the ones we have now are a sad joke. I wonder if we will ever get something challenging again, I miss EQ's PvE system.
Solo doesn't mean easy.
Group doesn't mean difficult.
When I solo as a healer, I have to be responsible for my health, my mana, my damage output, my mitigation, pulling and crowd control. When I group as a healer, all I have to do is spamheal a tank and manage my mana.
Tell me again which requires more skill?
In my opinion, spamming the heal in a group requires 100 x more skill than not having to cooperate and coordinate with anyone and playing solo in an MMORPG.
I think when I play a solo healer that it is 100 x easier than playing in a group, since I can easily and without any thought at all manage my own health, mana, damage output, mitigation, pulling and crowd control. After a week or two of playing the game I can do that almost literally with my eyes closed. With a group? No way, never know what might happen.
I understand you have a different opinion, but neither of us is right or wrong. That's why we need different games to play.
i play both solo and group, mostly solo due to my schedule... but from your argument about grouping being more difficult..... about the difficulties of coordinating with other people???? do you play with people that don't speak the same language???? how can coordinating be the hard part of your game? i have never had a problem with my guilds coordinating before or during a fight... maybe because we don't type in game, but seriously, grouping will always be easier(unless you play with horrid pugs, or play on foreign servers that don't speak your language), then soloing. grouping may not be the fastest way to do what you want, what with having to deal with other players BS, but it will be safer. how you can claim there's less skill in soloing then grouping, is beyond me. it's a different skill, but it's neither more or less, depending on the game. i love the idea of a mmo that requires grouping to play due to the difficulty..... and i'd still solo in it, because i also enjoy a challenge. don't blame soloers for making your game easier and no fun for you, blame devs for not maintaining a proper balance between the two.
It really depends on what MMORPG you are playing I guess. Soloing in WoW with my shaman was like, running up to things and 1 rounding them with windfury, and chain shocking. Occasionally you sit down and med. Even in WoW though, I think that doing say zul farak is more difficult than soloing hyenas in tanaris.
You don't go into an instance and try to solo it, because you can't solo the bosses generally, and the exp is horrible.
Of course, if you took a 5 man group in WoW and were killing non-elites, well no fucking shit its going to be easier. I can't think of a single instance in WoW where soloing is more difficult than grouping.
Soloing trash mobs = easier than grouping instances, obviously. And you can't solo instances either. Are you trying to state something really obvious, that killing NPC X is easier with 5 people than 1?
I don't know how anyone finds soloing challenging in current MMORPGs
Sure, I really like splitting my loot, XP and rare drops with some wadhead who can't solo content that is, by its very nature, soloable and who cries and drums his heels on the floor because more self-sufficient players don't actually need them. Hoo boy, that sounds like FUN!
As long as there are people in an MMO who gather resources, sell loot and craft items I want to buy in the Bazaar/Auction House, that's about as much contact with strangers as I need. I love the thriving player-driven economy, the bonus and seasonal content released by the game publishers, but I simply don't pug. Ever.
This must be the 999th thread started by whiners who think grouping is The Way, and I actually LIVE for the day when you all actually get a game where you MUST group, because then you'll all bugger off to it and QQ less.
Who said you have to group with newbies? I am saying you shouldn't be able to solo anything in MMORPGs, or if you can solo them it shouldn't be efficient.
Your argument about "rare drops" is ridiculous too. If you kill 5x as fast in a 5 person group, you will get 5x as many "rare drops", and 5x as much loot. Plus you can actually kill bosses or named spawns with groups, something you can't solo.
You know why WoW has so many lousy players at the endgame? Because they solod their way there and are incompetent newbies who never learned how to play the game. In EQ you could expect someone max level to play their class well, because they have been grouping and in raid situations their whole life. In WoW where you solo there, you can't expect them to do anything right.
Even though I find soloing trivial, I still don't see how it is fun. If you are good, then you would find soloing boring, because you can rely on your own skill in order to kill anything. But it's not like you can take on challenging instances by soloing. So you end up soloing shit you know you can kill, stuff that is easy. Because you are so skilled, then I think soloing would obviously be more boring than grouping, because with groups you might have some newb in your group and you have to work harder to survive. Even though not everyone is the same skill level, it makes leveling less monotonous.
Just look how boring leveling in WoW is, a game where you solo trivial content then do trivial instances. You really want MMORPGs to be like that? Where leveling is just a waste of time, where you just repeat the same actions over and over for ...30-60 days, not ever being challenged once in that whole time? At least in EQ you could expect to get killed every so often while leveling, I could get lvl 75 in WoW by just soloing there, and not dying once. That is how trivial and dumbed down their solo-leveling MMORPG is.
Their leveling system is the reason why my guild in WoW was in AQ40 and all the other guilds were still struggling with newb zones like molten core. All of them products of an easy leveling system where they learned nothing about how to play the game. If the leveling system were actually difficult, like in Everquest, then there would be players who didn't suck by the time they were max level.
These games were intended as scams to addict and keep players paying through repetitive gameplay.
Lets not complain about soloing being shitty since everything in MMOs sucks compared to other genres.
Then why exactly are you on an MMORPG website? Or in an MMO thread for that matter if they suck? I know this site has more than just MMO info, but...
Because like many people that enjoy this genre I happen to be addicted to repetitive tasks. I won't lie to myself like many of the posters on this site though, I know these games are shit.
Also I havent found a single player version of Eve yet lol.
These games were intended as scams to addict and keep players paying through repetitive gameplay.
Lets not complain about soloing being shitty since everything in MMOs sucks compared to other genres.
Then why exactly are you on an MMORPG website? Or in an MMO thread for that matter if they suck? I know this site has more than just MMO info, but...
Because like many people that enjoy this genre I happen to be addicted to repetitive tasks. I won't lie to myself like many of the posters on this site though, I know these games are shit.
Also I havent found a single player version of Eve yet lol.
X3 Reunion is like an offline Eve. Google it, I think they have a newer version. Back on subject...
For me grouping is not just about the challenge and social aspect but also the wide variety of class combinations you get. For example in EQ, sometimes you would get the normal group of tank, healer, bard, wizard, enchanter or sometimes you would get 6 wizards or 6 mages and just nuke the crap out of everything. So yeah the crazy combinations you came up with was also a fun aspect of grouping.
These games were intended as scams to addict and keep players paying through repetitive gameplay.
Lets not complain about soloing being shitty since everything in MMOs sucks compared to other genres.
Then why exactly are you on an MMORPG website? Or in an MMO thread for that matter if they suck? I know this site has more than just MMO info, but...
Because like many people that enjoy this genre I happen to be addicted to repetitive tasks. I won't lie to myself like many of the posters on this site though, I know these games are shit.
Also I havent found a single player version of Eve yet lol.
They don't make it anymore, but you can find copies for sale on ebay...but you should try Freelancer. It's a single player (Even multi-player if you can find other that still play it) sci-fi game kind of like EVE. It's great!
I'm not looking for group play to chat. I agree with you, I can chat with my guild if I want to chat. I'm looking for group play because it is challenging , which makes the game fun for me. Take away the need to group, and you take away the challenge, and there fore the fun of the game for me. Solo friendly? then no need to group, challenge gone, fun gone.
Odd, I always found solo play to be more challenging. Guess it depends on the game.
Solo Friendly doesn't always mean no need to group, I think you are actually twisting it a bit. But it seems you're biased towards solo players, so I guess that's expected.
How could solo play be challenging in an MMORPG? You just click on your abilities till the mob is dead, that's it.
Mind sharing what exactly it is you want from grouping?
oops hit submit before I finished.
How could solo play be more challenging? For one I do everything on my own, I take every risk on my own, and I don't have a group carrying me through stuff. I'll give two examples, PvE, lets say I solo harder then normal mobs, that are actually meant to be encountered with a group, If I was skilled enough I could pick the mobs off and collect the loot for myself, I put more effort into this, then I would in a group
PvP, I could group with somebody, or a few people, encounter a few players and and pretty much destroy them. I could take the risk, go solo and take the challenge of me vs multiple people. In the end it can be more challenging. As I said, it depends on the game I guess.
There is no risk. The is no player skill in an MMORPG, just character skill. When you group, you add the difficulty of coordination with other real people. You cannot be "skilled enough" to do anything in an MMORPG. It's simply a matter of character stats.
It's always harder to coordinate with someone and cooperate with a group, than do something by yourself.
When you do it by yourself there is no compromise. You do everything your way, and that's it. Very easy.
There is no challenge of you vs multiple people in PvP. There's just the stats. Either you have the more DPS and hit points or they do. Unless you are playing a First Person Shooter. But with a group, you can be better or worse with good or bad coordination.
If you take on any PvE or PvP solo, and you think, WoW! I totally was victorious because I'm so skilled! you are just deluding yourself. You were victorious because you have better stats, or got some better damage rolls, nothing more. Which is the way an CRPG is supposed to be.
Lol, I get the feeling you're just one of those guys that "require" a group for everything because you are incapable of doing anything alone. No player skill, good one. Talking to you will certainly go no where.
They don't make it anymore, but you can find copies for sale on ebay...but you should try Freelancer. It's a single player (Even multi-player if you can find other that still play it) sci-fi game kind of like EVE. It's great!
I'm not looking for group play to chat. I agree with you, I can chat with my guild if I want to chat. I'm looking for group play because it is challenging , which makes the game fun for me. Take away the need to group, and you take away the challenge, and there fore the fun of the game for me. Solo friendly? then no need to group, challenge gone, fun gone.
Odd, I always found solo play to be more challenging. Guess it depends on the game.
Solo Friendly doesn't always mean no need to group, I think you are actually twisting it a bit. But it seems you're biased towards solo players, so I guess that's expected.
How could solo play be challenging in an MMORPG? You just click on your abilities till the mob is dead, that's it.
Mind sharing what exactly it is you want from grouping?
oops hit submit before I finished.
How could solo play be more challenging? For one I do everything on my own, I take every risk on my own, and I don't have a group carrying me through stuff. I'll give two examples, PvE, lets say I solo harder then normal mobs, that are actually meant to be encountered with a group, If I was skilled enough I could pick the mobs off and collect the loot for myself, I put more effort into this, then I would in a group
PvP, I could group with somebody, or a few people, encounter a few players and and pretty much destroy them. I could take the risk, go solo and take the challenge of me vs multiple people. In the end it can be more challenging. As I said, it depends on the game I guess.
There is no risk. The is no player skill in an MMORPG, just character skill. When you group, you add the difficulty of coordination with other real people. You cannot be "skilled enough" to do anything in an MMORPG. It's simply a matter of character stats.
It's always harder to coordinate with someone and cooperate with a group, than do something by yourself.
When you do it by yourself there is no compromise. You do everything your way, and that's it. Very easy.
There is no challenge of you vs multiple people in PvP. There's just the stats. Either you have the more DPS and hit points or they do. Unless you are playing a First Person Shooter. But with a group, you can be better or worse with good or bad coordination.
If you take on any PvE or PvP solo, and you think, WoW! I totally was victorious because I'm so skilled! you are just deluding yourself. You were victorious because you have better stats, or got some better damage rolls, nothing more. Which is the way an CRPG is supposed to be.
Lol, I get the feeling you're just one of those guys that "require" a group for everything because you are incapable of doing anything alone. No player skill, good one. Talking to you will certainly go no where.
I could solo WoW to the level cap with one hand tied behind my back, literally.
But it would bore me to tears.
I don't understand people that think leveling up a toon in a game like WoW requires players skill. Skill at what? Clicking the mouse button on an attack ability? Really?
I require a group to do everything because it's actually fun in an MMORPG, rather than mindlessly grinding through content that is boring as watching paint dry.
I'm not looking for group play to chat. I agree with you, I can chat with my guild if I want to chat. I'm looking for group play because it is challenging , which makes the game fun for me. Take away the need to group, and you take away the challenge, and there fore the fun of the game for me. Solo friendly? then no need to group, challenge gone, fun gone.
Odd, I always found solo play to be more challenging. Guess it depends on the game.
Solo Friendly doesn't always mean no need to group, I think you are actually twisting it a bit. But it seems you're biased towards solo players, so I guess that's expected.
How could solo play be challenging in an MMORPG? You just click on your abilities till the mob is dead, that's it.
Mind sharing what exactly it is you want from grouping?
oops hit submit before I finished.
How could solo play be more challenging? For one I do everything on my own, I take every risk on my own, and I don't have a group carrying me through stuff. I'll give two examples, PvE, lets say I solo harder then normal mobs, that are actually meant to be encountered with a group, If I was skilled enough I could pick the mobs off and collect the loot for myself, I put more effort into this, then I would in a group
PvP, I could group with somebody, or a few people, encounter a few players and and pretty much destroy them. I could take the risk, go solo and take the challenge of me vs multiple people. In the end it can be more challenging. As I said, it depends on the game I guess.
There is no risk. The is no player skill in an MMORPG, just character skill. When you group, you add the difficulty of coordination with other real people. You cannot be "skilled enough" to do anything in an MMORPG. It's simply a matter of character stats.
It's always harder to coordinate with someone and cooperate with a group, than do something by yourself.
When you do it by yourself there is no compromise. You do everything your way, and that's it. Very easy.
There is no challenge of you vs multiple people in PvP. There's just the stats. Either you have the more DPS and hit points or they do. Unless you are playing a First Person Shooter. But with a group, you can be better or worse with good or bad coordination.
If you take on any PvE or PvP solo, and you think, WoW! I totally was victorious because I'm so skilled! you are just deluding yourself. You were victorious because you have better stats, or got some better damage rolls, nothing more. Which is the way an CRPG is supposed to be.
Lol, I get the feeling you're just one of those guys that "require" a group for everything because you are incapable of doing anything alone. No player skill, good one. Talking to you will certainly go no where.
It's much better if you just realize that up front.
For me grouping is not just about the challenge and social aspect but also the wide variety of class combinations you get. For example in EQ, sometimes you would get the normal group of tank, healer, bard, wizard, enchanter or sometimes you would get 6 wizards or 6 mages and just nuke the crap out of everything. So yeah the crazy combinations you came up with was also a fun aspect of grouping.
You could spend quite a bit of time trying to find the right mobs to grind for your party make up.
And as soon as someone else joined the group, or left, the make up would change and the particular mobs you were grinding would suddenly become to hard, or to easy.
It was an art to know where to go to utilize the power of your partucular group for maximum affect, and yes defintely a fun part of the game that is missing from games like WoW.
It's a total snoozefest. I've had more fun watching paint dry.
Sure, It's nice to have some alone time to yourself every now and then and be able to solo when grouping just isn't viable but when the majority of the core game is composed of everyone soloing, It's just soo dull to me.
You can argue that most games end-game isn't very solo friendly but who wants to put up with the entire journey to there If It's all a solo fest?
Snoozers, I think I'd rather play with a wooden toy car and take naps than spend more than half of my time soloing in MMORPG's.
When I strictly solo content it's normally because i'm on a farming toon that is leveling up and gathering resources at the same time in level appropriate content. It kills two birds with one stone. Unless you are going after resources that are only in an area that requires group, you are wasting time and effort trying to farm materials while group.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I could solo WoW to the level cap with one hand tied behind my back, literally. But it would bore me to tears. I don't understand people that think leveling up a toon in a game like WoW requires players skill. Skill at what? Clicking the mouse button on an attack ability? Really? I require a group to do everything because it's actually fun in an MMORPG, rather than mindlessly grinding through content that is boring as watching paint dry.
Leveling doesn't really require skill in WoW, and I actually never said that, so you should take that up with the person to make that comment. Please quit saying "clicking" I havn't clicked an ability in a few years now, hotkeys improve your reaction time, cut down on the searching. Also gives me the ability to kite with my mouse, you should try it.
Grouping requires a brain? Spam heal, spam dps, hold agro. That's highly intense gameplay. Way more interesting then multitasking a hand full mobs/players by myself and survive, thankfully I must be very lucky since there is no such thing as skill in MMOs.
Grouping was great in DAoC and even when WoW first started but lets face facts you could solo in DAoC as well and make progress. To get the best stuff you have to group so I don't see what the complaints are about. I don't have to be grouped with you to interact with you. Honestly in the past couple of years I would rather not have the best stuff than put up with these fly by night groupers. Get in a group finish 1 quest and then they bail. For me the real boredom comes when people want to group and just grind mobs over and over and over. I prefer doing quests and i often don't leave an area until i do all of the quests which means I usually out level the zone. If the community wanted forced grouping then EQ2 would have been a big hit. I seriously doubt there will have be a hugely successful group oriented game for a long time as the communities in most games is utter crap full of raiders, botters and min/maxers.
I could solo WoW to the level cap with one hand tied behind my back, literally. But it would bore me to tears. I don't understand people that think leveling up a toon in a game like WoW requires players skill. Skill at what? Clicking the mouse button on an attack ability? Really? I require a group to do everything because it's actually fun in an MMORPG, rather than mindlessly grinding through content that is boring as watching paint dry.
Leveling doesn't really require skill in WoW, and I actually never said that, so you should take that up with the person to make that comment. Please quit saying "clicking" I havn't clicked an ability in a few years now, hotkeys improve your reaction time, cut down on the searching. Also gives me the ability to kite with my mouse, you should try it.
Grouping requires a brain? Spam heal, spam dps, hold agro. That's highly intense gameplay. Way more interesting then multitasking a hand full mobs/players by myself and survive, thankfully I must be very lucky since there is no such thing as skill in MMOs.
Why has this discussion gone off topic anyway? It's about having fun not taking skill.
Comments
Solo doesn't mean easy.
Group doesn't mean difficult.
When I solo as a healer, I have to be responsible for my health, my mana, my damage output, my mitigation, pulling and crowd control. When I group as a healer, all I have to do is spamheal a tank and manage my mana.
Tell me again which requires more skill?
In my opinion, spamming the heal in a group requires 100 x more skill than not having to cooperate and coordinate with anyone and playing solo in an MMORPG.
I think when I play a solo healer that it is 100 x easier than playing in a group, since I can easily and without any thought at all manage my own health, mana, damage output, mitigation, pulling and crowd control. After a week or two of playing the game I can do that almost literally with my eyes closed. With a group? No way, never know what might happen.
I understand you have a different opinion, but neither of us is right or wrong. That's why we need different games to play.
i play both solo and group, mostly solo due to my schedule... but from your argument about grouping being more difficult..... about the difficulties of coordinating with other people???? do you play with people that don't speak the same language???? how can coordinating be the hard part of your game? i have never had a problem with my guilds coordinating before or during a fight... maybe because we don't type in game, but seriously, grouping will always be easier(unless you play with horrid pugs, or play on foreign servers that don't speak your language), then soloing. grouping may not be the fastest way to do what you want, what with having to deal with other players BS, but it will be safer. how you can claim there's less skill in soloing then grouping, is beyond me. it's a different skill, but it's neither more or less, depending on the game. i love the idea of a mmo that requires grouping to play due to the difficulty..... and i'd still solo in it, because i also enjoy a challenge. don't blame soloers for making your game easier and no fun for you, blame devs for not maintaining a proper balance between the two.
Blame games like WoW. In Everquest it was nearly impossible to solo with most classes. And even of the people who could solo, the exp/gear wasn't as good as in groups (unless you're a necro or something).
They should force grouping on players, more and more MMORPGs are becoming single player games. It's sad that players continue to put up with companies like Blizzard and NCSoft throwing game content in instances that are magically locked away from the rest of the world.
MMORPGs should have 1 world, where the content is extremely difficult and requires grouping in order to kill. That is a true MMORPG, the ones we have now are a sad joke. I wonder if we will ever get something challenging again, I miss EQ's PvE system.
I totally agree. The truth comes out a little.
I do not believe in styles. Only flowing.
It beats trying to find players who are in your zone, at the right time of day, at the same quest stages, with the right amount of time to spare, who won't go AFK when mommy tells them the microwave just dinged and who aren't complete brain-dead tossers who you'd be highly reluctant to even pass the time of day with in real life.
Me, soloing, with some nice tunes playing in the headset - good times in comparison.
Sure, I really like splitting my loot, XP and rare drops with some wadhead who can't solo content that is, by its very nature, soloable and who cries and drums his heels on the floor because more self-sufficient players don't actually need them. Hoo boy, that sounds like FUN!
As long as there are people in an MMO who gather resources, sell loot and craft items I want to buy in the Bazaar/Auction House, that's about as much contact with strangers as I need. I love the thriving player-driven economy, the bonus and seasonal content released by the game publishers, but I simply don't pug. Ever.
This must be the 999th thread started by whiners who think grouping is The Way, and I actually LIVE for the day when you all actually get a game where you MUST group, because then you'll all bugger off to it and QQ less.
I hate soloing. Whenever I solo, be it in any game and in any time, it feels like I'm a random bot trying to get some pixels in a stupid game, in fact I don't even think while soloing at all. For that reason I prefer to go out, work or study when all I have left to do in a MMO is solo. BUT, I'm not inflexible, so I understand there's people out there that enjoy this kind of gameplay.
I'm always in a group when I play a MMO, mostly because I enjoy it and cause I often roll a support role. I don't like the idea to force people to group in a game (except in some harder occasions where's almost impossible for 1 person to play alone) because theres two sides in this: the player forced don't want to play with me, and I wouldn't want to force someone to play with me, so the effectiveness of the group would be aggrieved.
No one needs to complain. Groups are easy to find (there'll always be people that likes to group), particularly when in a guild, and they do deserve a better "reward X effort" than anyone that solos. On the otherside, the people that enjoys soloing should continue to have the right to play the way they want, without being forced to do something unpleasant for them.
Playing: Starcraft II.
Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft.
Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
I strongly disagree, you actually do like brie.
You're right; I lied about the roquefort. I thought it would make me seem more classy.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
There are some MMOs where grouping is required. EVE / DDO / FFXII / DF
Play those or stop whining. Not all mmos are for you. Sorry.
Solo doesn't mean easy.
Group doesn't mean difficult.
When I solo as a healer, I have to be responsible for my health, my mana, my damage output, my mitigation, pulling and crowd control. When I group as a healer, all I have to do is spamheal a tank and manage my mana.
Tell me again which requires more skill?
In my opinion, spamming the heal in a group requires 100 x more skill than not having to cooperate and coordinate with anyone and playing solo in an MMORPG.
I think when I play a solo healer that it is 100 x easier than playing in a group, since I can easily and without any thought at all manage my own health, mana, damage output, mitigation, pulling and crowd control. After a week or two of playing the game I can do that almost literally with my eyes closed. With a group? No way, never know what might happen.
I understand you have a different opinion, but neither of us is right or wrong. That's why we need different games to play.
i play both solo and group, mostly solo due to my schedule... but from your argument about grouping being more difficult..... about the difficulties of coordinating with other people???? do you play with people that don't speak the same language???? how can coordinating be the hard part of your game? i have never had a problem with my guilds coordinating before or during a fight... maybe because we don't type in game, but seriously, grouping will always be easier(unless you play with horrid pugs, or play on foreign servers that don't speak your language), then soloing. grouping may not be the fastest way to do what you want, what with having to deal with other players BS, but it will be safer. how you can claim there's less skill in soloing then grouping, is beyond me. it's a different skill, but it's neither more or less, depending on the game. i love the idea of a mmo that requires grouping to play due to the difficulty..... and i'd still solo in it, because i also enjoy a challenge. don't blame soloers for making your game easier and no fun for you, blame devs for not maintaining a proper balance between the two.
It really depends on what MMORPG you are playing I guess. Soloing in WoW with my shaman was like, running up to things and 1 rounding them with windfury, and chain shocking. Occasionally you sit down and med. Even in WoW though, I think that doing say zul farak is more difficult than soloing hyenas in tanaris.
You don't go into an instance and try to solo it, because you can't solo the bosses generally, and the exp is horrible.
Of course, if you took a 5 man group in WoW and were killing non-elites, well no fucking shit its going to be easier. I can't think of a single instance in WoW where soloing is more difficult than grouping.
Soloing trash mobs = easier than grouping instances, obviously. And you can't solo instances either. Are you trying to state something really obvious, that killing NPC X is easier with 5 people than 1?
I don't know how anyone finds soloing challenging in current MMORPGs
Sure, I really like splitting my loot, XP and rare drops with some wadhead who can't solo content that is, by its very nature, soloable and who cries and drums his heels on the floor because more self-sufficient players don't actually need them. Hoo boy, that sounds like FUN!
As long as there are people in an MMO who gather resources, sell loot and craft items I want to buy in the Bazaar/Auction House, that's about as much contact with strangers as I need. I love the thriving player-driven economy, the bonus and seasonal content released by the game publishers, but I simply don't pug. Ever.
This must be the 999th thread started by whiners who think grouping is The Way, and I actually LIVE for the day when you all actually get a game where you MUST group, because then you'll all bugger off to it and QQ less.
Who said you have to group with newbies? I am saying you shouldn't be able to solo anything in MMORPGs, or if you can solo them it shouldn't be efficient.
Your argument about "rare drops" is ridiculous too. If you kill 5x as fast in a 5 person group, you will get 5x as many "rare drops", and 5x as much loot. Plus you can actually kill bosses or named spawns with groups, something you can't solo.
You know why WoW has so many lousy players at the endgame? Because they solod their way there and are incompetent newbies who never learned how to play the game. In EQ you could expect someone max level to play their class well, because they have been grouping and in raid situations their whole life. In WoW where you solo there, you can't expect them to do anything right.
Even though I find soloing trivial, I still don't see how it is fun. If you are good, then you would find soloing boring, because you can rely on your own skill in order to kill anything. But it's not like you can take on challenging instances by soloing. So you end up soloing shit you know you can kill, stuff that is easy. Because you are so skilled, then I think soloing would obviously be more boring than grouping, because with groups you might have some newb in your group and you have to work harder to survive. Even though not everyone is the same skill level, it makes leveling less monotonous.
Just look how boring leveling in WoW is, a game where you solo trivial content then do trivial instances. You really want MMORPGs to be like that? Where leveling is just a waste of time, where you just repeat the same actions over and over for ...30-60 days, not ever being challenged once in that whole time? At least in EQ you could expect to get killed every so often while leveling, I could get lvl 75 in WoW by just soloing there, and not dying once. That is how trivial and dumbed down their solo-leveling MMORPG is.
Their leveling system is the reason why my guild in WoW was in AQ40 and all the other guilds were still struggling with newb zones like molten core. All of them products of an easy leveling system where they learned nothing about how to play the game. If the leveling system were actually difficult, like in Everquest, then there would be players who didn't suck by the time they were max level.
Mmorpgs are an inferior video game genre.
These games were intended as scams to addict and keep players paying through repetitive gameplay.
Lets not complain about soloing being shitty since everything in MMOs sucks compared to other genres.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Then why exactly are you on an MMORPG website? Or in an MMO thread for that matter if they suck? I know this site has more than just MMO info, but...
Then why exactly are you on an MMORPG website? Or in an MMO thread for that matter if they suck? I know this site has more than just MMO info, but...
Because like many people that enjoy this genre I happen to be addicted to repetitive tasks. I won't lie to myself like many of the posters on this site though, I know these games are shit.
Also I havent found a single player version of Eve yet lol.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Then why exactly are you on an MMORPG website? Or in an MMO thread for that matter if they suck? I know this site has more than just MMO info, but...
Because like many people that enjoy this genre I happen to be addicted to repetitive tasks. I won't lie to myself like many of the posters on this site though, I know these games are shit.
Also I havent found a single player version of Eve yet lol.
X3 Reunion is like an offline Eve. Google it, I think they have a newer version. Back on subject...
I have the right to like what I want!
For me grouping is not just about the challenge and social aspect but also the wide variety of class combinations you get. For example in EQ, sometimes you would get the normal group of tank, healer, bard, wizard, enchanter or sometimes you would get 6 wizards or 6 mages and just nuke the crap out of everything. So yeah the crazy combinations you came up with was also a fun aspect of grouping.
Then why exactly are you on an MMORPG website? Or in an MMO thread for that matter if they suck? I know this site has more than just MMO info, but...
Because like many people that enjoy this genre I happen to be addicted to repetitive tasks. I won't lie to myself like many of the posters on this site though, I know these games are shit.
Also I havent found a single player version of Eve yet lol.
They don't make it anymore, but you can find copies for sale on ebay...but you should try Freelancer. It's a single player (Even multi-player if you can find other that still play it) sci-fi game kind of like EVE. It's great!
Odd, I always found solo play to be more challenging. Guess it depends on the game.
Solo Friendly doesn't always mean no need to group, I think you are actually twisting it a bit. But it seems you're biased towards solo players, so I guess that's expected.
How could solo play be challenging in an MMORPG? You just click on your abilities till the mob is dead, that's it.
Mind sharing what exactly it is you want from grouping?
oops hit submit before I finished.
How could solo play be more challenging? For one I do everything on my own, I take every risk on my own, and I don't have a group carrying me through stuff. I'll give two examples, PvE, lets say I solo harder then normal mobs, that are actually meant to be encountered with a group, If I was skilled enough I could pick the mobs off and collect the loot for myself, I put more effort into this, then I would in a group
PvP, I could group with somebody, or a few people, encounter a few players and and pretty much destroy them. I could take the risk, go solo and take the challenge of me vs multiple people. In the end it can be more challenging. As I said, it depends on the game I guess.
There is no risk. The is no player skill in an MMORPG, just character skill. When you group, you add the difficulty of coordination with other real people. You cannot be "skilled enough" to do anything in an MMORPG. It's simply a matter of character stats.
It's always harder to coordinate with someone and cooperate with a group, than do something by yourself.
When you do it by yourself there is no compromise. You do everything your way, and that's it. Very easy.
There is no challenge of you vs multiple people in PvP. There's just the stats. Either you have the more DPS and hit points or they do. Unless you are playing a First Person Shooter. But with a group, you can be better or worse with good or bad coordination.
If you take on any PvE or PvP solo, and you think, WoW! I totally was victorious because I'm so skilled! you are just deluding yourself. You were victorious because you have better stats, or got some better damage rolls, nothing more. Which is the way an CRPG is supposed to be.
Lol, I get the feeling you're just one of those guys that "require" a group for everything because you are incapable of doing anything alone. No player skill, good one. Talking to you will certainly go no where.
They don't make it anymore, but you can find copies for sale on ebay...but you should try Freelancer. It's a single player (Even multi-player if you can find other that still play it) sci-fi game kind of like EVE. It's great!
I'll have to check this game out myself.
Odd, I always found solo play to be more challenging. Guess it depends on the game.
Solo Friendly doesn't always mean no need to group, I think you are actually twisting it a bit. But it seems you're biased towards solo players, so I guess that's expected.
How could solo play be challenging in an MMORPG? You just click on your abilities till the mob is dead, that's it.
Mind sharing what exactly it is you want from grouping?
oops hit submit before I finished.
How could solo play be more challenging? For one I do everything on my own, I take every risk on my own, and I don't have a group carrying me through stuff. I'll give two examples, PvE, lets say I solo harder then normal mobs, that are actually meant to be encountered with a group, If I was skilled enough I could pick the mobs off and collect the loot for myself, I put more effort into this, then I would in a group
PvP, I could group with somebody, or a few people, encounter a few players and and pretty much destroy them. I could take the risk, go solo and take the challenge of me vs multiple people. In the end it can be more challenging. As I said, it depends on the game I guess.
There is no risk. The is no player skill in an MMORPG, just character skill. When you group, you add the difficulty of coordination with other real people. You cannot be "skilled enough" to do anything in an MMORPG. It's simply a matter of character stats.
It's always harder to coordinate with someone and cooperate with a group, than do something by yourself.
When you do it by yourself there is no compromise. You do everything your way, and that's it. Very easy.
There is no challenge of you vs multiple people in PvP. There's just the stats. Either you have the more DPS and hit points or they do. Unless you are playing a First Person Shooter. But with a group, you can be better or worse with good or bad coordination.
If you take on any PvE or PvP solo, and you think, WoW! I totally was victorious because I'm so skilled! you are just deluding yourself. You were victorious because you have better stats, or got some better damage rolls, nothing more. Which is the way an CRPG is supposed to be.
Lol, I get the feeling you're just one of those guys that "require" a group for everything because you are incapable of doing anything alone. No player skill, good one. Talking to you will certainly go no where.
I could solo WoW to the level cap with one hand tied behind my back, literally.
But it would bore me to tears.
I don't understand people that think leveling up a toon in a game like WoW requires players skill. Skill at what? Clicking the mouse button on an attack ability? Really?
I require a group to do everything because it's actually fun in an MMORPG, rather than mindlessly grinding through content that is boring as watching paint dry.
Odd, I always found solo play to be more challenging. Guess it depends on the game.
Solo Friendly doesn't always mean no need to group, I think you are actually twisting it a bit. But it seems you're biased towards solo players, so I guess that's expected.
How could solo play be challenging in an MMORPG? You just click on your abilities till the mob is dead, that's it.
Mind sharing what exactly it is you want from grouping?
oops hit submit before I finished.
How could solo play be more challenging? For one I do everything on my own, I take every risk on my own, and I don't have a group carrying me through stuff. I'll give two examples, PvE, lets say I solo harder then normal mobs, that are actually meant to be encountered with a group, If I was skilled enough I could pick the mobs off and collect the loot for myself, I put more effort into this, then I would in a group
PvP, I could group with somebody, or a few people, encounter a few players and and pretty much destroy them. I could take the risk, go solo and take the challenge of me vs multiple people. In the end it can be more challenging. As I said, it depends on the game I guess.
There is no risk. The is no player skill in an MMORPG, just character skill. When you group, you add the difficulty of coordination with other real people. You cannot be "skilled enough" to do anything in an MMORPG. It's simply a matter of character stats.
It's always harder to coordinate with someone and cooperate with a group, than do something by yourself.
When you do it by yourself there is no compromise. You do everything your way, and that's it. Very easy.
There is no challenge of you vs multiple people in PvP. There's just the stats. Either you have the more DPS and hit points or they do. Unless you are playing a First Person Shooter. But with a group, you can be better or worse with good or bad coordination.
If you take on any PvE or PvP solo, and you think, WoW! I totally was victorious because I'm so skilled! you are just deluding yourself. You were victorious because you have better stats, or got some better damage rolls, nothing more. Which is the way an CRPG is supposed to be.
Lol, I get the feeling you're just one of those guys that "require" a group for everything because you are incapable of doing anything alone. No player skill, good one. Talking to you will certainly go no where.
It's much better if you just realize that up front.
You could spend quite a bit of time trying to find the right mobs to grind for your party make up.
And as soon as someone else joined the group, or left, the make up would change and the particular mobs you were grinding would suddenly become to hard, or to easy.
It was an art to know where to go to utilize the power of your partucular group for maximum affect, and yes defintely a fun part of the game that is missing from games like WoW.
When I strictly solo content it's normally because i'm on a farming toon that is leveling up and gathering resources at the same time in level appropriate content. It kills two birds with one stone. Unless you are going after resources that are only in an area that requires group, you are wasting time and effort trying to farm materials while group.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Leveling doesn't really require skill in WoW, and I actually never said that, so you should take that up with the person to make that comment. Please quit saying "clicking" I havn't clicked an ability in a few years now, hotkeys improve your reaction time, cut down on the searching. Also gives me the ability to kite with my mouse, you should try it.
Grouping requires a brain? Spam heal, spam dps, hold agro. That's highly intense gameplay. Way more interesting then multitasking a hand full mobs/players by myself and survive, thankfully I must be very lucky since there is no such thing as skill in MMOs.
Grouping was great in DAoC and even when WoW first started but lets face facts you could solo in DAoC as well and make progress. To get the best stuff you have to group so I don't see what the complaints are about. I don't have to be grouped with you to interact with you. Honestly in the past couple of years I would rather not have the best stuff than put up with these fly by night groupers. Get in a group finish 1 quest and then they bail. For me the real boredom comes when people want to group and just grind mobs over and over and over. I prefer doing quests and i often don't leave an area until i do all of the quests which means I usually out level the zone. If the community wanted forced grouping then EQ2 would have been a big hit. I seriously doubt there will have be a hugely successful group oriented game for a long time as the communities in most games is utter crap full of raiders, botters and min/maxers.
Leveling doesn't really require skill in WoW, and I actually never said that, so you should take that up with the person to make that comment. Please quit saying "clicking" I havn't clicked an ability in a few years now, hotkeys improve your reaction time, cut down on the searching. Also gives me the ability to kite with my mouse, you should try it.
Grouping requires a brain? Spam heal, spam dps, hold agro. That's highly intense gameplay. Way more interesting then multitasking a hand full mobs/players by myself and survive, thankfully I must be very lucky since there is no such thing as skill in MMOs.
Why has this discussion gone off topic anyway? It's about having fun not taking skill.