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Possible way for player crews.
Howard2341
Member Posts: 16
This could be as an expansion, I know it would never be at launch. And this post is directed at people who are so against player crews and throw out wild ass assumptions thinking player crews will mean you are stuck in engineering taking orders your whole STO life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF0lQ...eature=related
I use this video as an example. Would be a great view of how STO could be with interiors. Now stay with me here, I'm not advocating changing everything cryptic is already doing. I think alot of what they have already is fantastic and no matter what I will play this game, at least try it out for a few months.
I think to ease into it they should have the option for player crews, but there be only THREE stations.
1) Captain
Whoevers ship you are on is the captain, they are in charge of flying the ship. All the movements come from them. And if you go command skills(like cryptic says you can be something else, but still be captain) you can give out certain buffs too depending on your skills.
2) Science/Engineering
This person will be able to deal with things relating to science. Sensor sweeps, probes for non-combat related stuff. They will also be in charge of managing systems energy. Delegating the resources to shields/engines/weapons.
3) Tactical
This person will be dealing with everything combat related. Firing photon torpedos/phasers etc.
Now each person, depending on how far they are in their rank and what skills they have depend on how well they can do their job, or what certain buffs they have if you will. When your in the interior, or "in" your starship, any time you are at your "station" you can flip right to the outside view, playing the game just like the videos we have seen by cryptic already. There you will have your HUD, so you can see everything and also be able to execute your desired commands.
Now what if my Tactical officer leaves you say? Well one of the captains BO's replaces him, but basically what that means is you will be left with 2 PLAYER crew members right? Well the captain would then do the flying AND the firing of the torpedos. The Science/Engineer would still be doing there part. And when you solo you will be doing all 3 JUST LIKE cryptic already has planned. Ships wont be crazy in size, and the beginning ones will probably have 1 deck with a bridge/ready room. Maybe a hallway connecting a few others. And the largest of ships will have maybe 3-4 decks. Nothing too crazy, and a lot will be customizable. Its already been confirmed that we will never "lose" a ship or have it destroyed so the old arugment of allowing someone else to fly your ship or being dead in space is pretty non-existant. They stated there will be no harsh penalties for death. So this should be a concern whatsoever. Of course it being your ship you can delegate what you want and who to give permission to come aboard. All that great stuff.
Another idea i have for reaching other people, lets say in game you log on, and want to join a friend you gives you an in game /Tell to come to his ship. But how do you get there? do you fly to him? What about your awesome galaxy class? where does it go if you beam over? I think the best idea is if you accept the invite(he manually sends it). There is a loading time and in that loading time its basically stating that you took a shuttle to his ship, and one of your BO's returned your ship to your guild star basee(or any predetermined area you have). And at anytime you can leave his ship(or get kicked as the case may be) the loading time will come back up. A short load time mind you, and you will be back at your galaxy class ship. All the while the explanation is you took a shuttle to it, but its not something that manually happens. So groups can easily form, and it is somewhat plausible.
Like i said the before the captain will also be notified immediatily if someone drops and they will know that they now have taken over that task as well. It doesn't take away from the solo play at all, because the ships can be run by one person just like they are going to now, but you have the option to have a small crew to toil around the galaxy,. do missions together, explore, PvP in the neutral zone, create your own heirachy within a guild. The possibilities are endless. And I don't think this idea takes away from anything cryptic is already planning on doing. Also you aren't stuck changing plasma conduits in engineer taking orders from someone, and what I have described isn't a ST sim at all. Not only will it cater to a lot of peoples playing styles, the crewed feature could attract a lot of non star trek fans because its superior and fun playstyle. I think something like this as an expansion would do wonders for STO, and help to make a fun universe to play in for all types of gamers.
Comments
I see you are getting a hostile reception on the STO site forums Howard. Keep the faith.:)
I think your idea is sound. We'll have our 3 or 4 other pets(excuse me, crew members) with us on the bridge and on away teams and those could easily be replaced by players. You'll actually have the ability to do that on away missions but not on the ship.I won't hold my breath on those circumstances changing, but it would be nice to be able to have your guildmates on your ship with you.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
This is one of the best suggested player crew solutions yet proposed. At least it doesn't force it on the player base like some others have suggested and it seems to at least occupy all involved with activities for the majority of their time grouped. As I've said many times I'm not totally against the idea of player crews as long as it isn't forced on everyone and it's engaging and fun. This seems like a good compromise that would make people on both sides of the issue happy. Good job!
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
I like this idea, I had origionally thought thats how this MMO was going to work out but I dont think theres quiet enough for the other player bridge officers to do,
We're so used to having control over direction and when to fire weapons and such, we as players have made leaps and bounds over the first mario bro.s ya know?
I am a little miffed about not being about to walk around my bridge/ship I REALLY WANT TO DO THAT
But Im pretty sure that further expansion and devolpement will provide those experiences, its all faith i know
The who bridge officer crew it much cooler. then player crew i think who want push button for 10 hour straight and get no where
Also being able to customize your bridge officers has that Oragon trail morbidity that delighted me as a youth
Im going to name them my friends and then what as they break their legs or die when fording the river
muhahahah
Thats actually how PE were going to handle mutli-player ships. Basicaly there was going to be solo ships that players could aquire and then there were multi-player ships you could use, so say you had 3 people that grouped up, they could all decide to use a multi-player ship. Each player would then control different aspects of the ships systems. However, they were not going to offer it asa bridge view, but rather a 3rd person view of the ship's exterior, although they were condidering a bridge viwe (like cryptic has also stated may be a possability at launch).
---- "Fate protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise" ----
The problem with PE, was that everything was a "pie in the sky." They talked for a long time as to what they wanted to do, but then never did anything. I think their goals were set too high.
Thats not actually true, they just didn't release much to the public, I'd seen demos from inside the game like 6 months before teh first screenshots were made public, infact i was looking at screenshots a few months before the first ones were made public. The problem with PE if anything was a bad PR strategy, they wanted to keep everything secret before hyping it up, which was not really the best idea with such a huge Trek following that knew the game was been developed by them before they'd even finalised securing the licence, lol
So far, Cryptics version of STO is actually very similar to where PE was taking the game, although alot of people look at the first year PE had the licence when they were brainstorming and take that as what the goals for the game were, as well as using the test renders from teh game engine as to what graphics PE were going to use., they were going to go for a realistic looking game, but then decided to go for a more stylised theme instead. Crypics version is looking super sexy atm though and I'm happy a company with more resources at thier disposal is now incharge of the game!
---- "Fate protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise" ----
I like your general concept for a PC game mechanic, and I really hope they are able to incorporate something like this in the future. It would be interesting to play, and a dream to play for many Star Trek fans who are into heavy RPing.
With that being said, I think it should be purely optional to participate in a PC crew if and when such an addition is released.
Wow. That is all I have to say. I have been following STO since what, 05/06 something like that. Was even on the old STOnet forums. And have read a lot here, and well Bren I have seen you time and time again shoot down anything resembling Player crews, tho I admit I am with you in that a lot of what people have been asking for just cant be accomplished, they dont see the real world problems. But its really nice that you see my "vision" of player crews. Very small and an added feature. I think in my idea if taken the time and really refined it could be a GREAT addition to an already great looking game. And what it all comes down to really is we all want a great Star trek game to play, right?
But yes I love a lot of what cryptic has put out there and what direction they seem to be going with the game, and when I talk about player crews I dont want to take away from that, only ADD to it. I think with my idea in can incorporate so much, and the ability to go from your solo manned ship to a player crewed ship almost seamlessly. I know it will never happen at launch, but heres hoping maybe someday.
Could be interesting to see in game but I see a host of problems to go with it if it were put into the game.
Ok, going with the theme of my original post, as in pretend the idea I have of player crews was implemented, what problems do you see? Be specific.
Ok, going with the theme of my original post, as in pretend the idea I have of player crews was implemented, what problems do you see? Be specific.
Well I re-read what you posted, and to be honest it seems you covered a lot of the potential problems that could arise from such a system. In such a system would xp (what ever the STO equivalent is, since it is a skill based game) be split amongst the crew?
Ok, going with the theme of my original post, as in pretend the idea I have of player crews was implemented, what problems do you see? Be specific.
Well I re-read what you posted, and to be honest it seems you covered a lot of the potential problems that could arise from such a system. In such a system would xp (what ever the STO equivalent is, since it is a skill based game) be split amongst the crew?
Thats easy, whatever cryptic already has planned. They have stated that you can group up to do missions, its just that everyone will have there own ship. If there were player crews using my Idea it would be the exact same. The number of ships wouldn't matter just the number of players.
This was on the STO forums but relevant here. This is a typical response from someone who disagrees with player crews. Notice how they throw out random numbers and never talk about specifics in my post? Notice how when I make up ideas my goal is to talk about STO and just wanting it to be a good complete game for many to enjoy for a long time, never taking away from things they like just adding what I think a large fan base does want.
[quote]you can discuss it all you want.
the dev awnser was no a year ago it was no 6 months ago it was no yesterday and it will still be no next year.
you can still make topics about it putting in ideas ect if you want.
but i dont think there giong to use there time and money to put in player crews even if its only for 3 stations and when you leave a npc takes over or the captain takes over both jobs and when your friends log off you fly the ships solo (like the setup is now).
i dont think they will make that kind of system for 1% of the player base thats giong to use it that way.
it will be more effective to bring 30 ships with 1 person diong everything then bringing 10 ships with 3 man crew.[/quote]
Well I have heard they are considering something after launch, they stated that if/when they would do it they wanted to do it right and not rush it. Which I totally agree with. And 1% you say? You do know that 60% of all statistics are made up on the spot? 30 ships more effective than 1? Well that depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to obliterate a borg cube in battle, well then yes, 30 ships are more effective. But see your just throwing random numbers out there, so good for you buddy. My goal is to have fun and I think occasionally grouping with a couple friends to do a mission is fun for me. And I think a lot of people might enjoy it too.
See out of your whole post the only worthwhile thing you said was whether or not it would be worth it to develop it. Thats a good question, and we don't know and thats up to cryptic. But a lot of people since the dawn of the idea that Star Trek being made into an MMO have expressed there feelings about having player crews.
I played WoW for about 2 hours. I hated it and deleted it. I have played EvE off and on and its a decent game. I played SWG, but it was POST NGE so im not talking about that. What Im saying is I did have fun advancing my Jedi. But what kept me playing the game for a decent amount of time was playing with my guild. Helping newer members on how to craft items. Roleplaying in the cantina. That stuff had nothing to do with there story line, or there End game grouped instances. I rarely did those. So in the same sense I think added features of have a bridge crew and RP with guildmates LONG after I have done most of what STO has offered is what will keep me paying a subscription. That is why "I" think it would be worth it in the long run to eventually develop it. Your opinion is obviously different and that is fine.
__________________
Your reply to that post needs to be on that website since that poster can be found there. But if you are wondering why you are getting such resistence there it is because the argument was made many months ago and Cryptic already made their decision. You can discuss it all you want,but it isn't going to change anything. I wish there were playable Borg in that game and I have stated many logical ways to bring playable Borg into the game. I'm sure there are others that feel the same way,but the decision was made and I can either accept the decision and move on or keep annoying people over spilled milk. Sometimes we don't always get what we want.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Wow. That is all I have to say. I have been following STO since what, 05/06 something like that. Was even on the old STOnet forums. And have read a lot here, and well Bren I have seen you time and time again shoot down anything resembling Player crews, tho I admit I am with you in that a lot of what people have been asking for just cant be accomplished, they dont see the real world problems. But its really nice that you see my "vision" of player crews. Very small and an added feature. I think in my idea if taken the time and really refined it could be a GREAT addition to an already great looking game. And what it all comes down to really is we all want a great Star trek game to play, right?
But yes I love a lot of what cryptic has put out there and what direction they seem to be going with the game, and when I talk about player crews I dont want to take away from that, only ADD to it. I think with my idea in can incorporate so much, and the ability to go from your solo manned ship to a player crewed ship almost seamlessly. I know it will never happen at launch, but heres hoping maybe someday.
You're right, I have been pretty hard on the player crew people but mostly because most of their ideas are just not feasible with the technological limits involved with a MMO. At least 90% of the Ideas I've read go far above what could possibly be incorporated into a game and still remain on a reasonable budget and time table. Also most of them would require the entire project to be scraped and restarted as they are just to intertwined with the core mechanics of the game. People like to also say, "Well if SWG could do it why can't STO?" The answer to that is simple....In SWG all positions except for the Pilot and maybe the copilot only pointed and shot a gun and all of the functions of the pilot/copilot were already programed for solo ships. Positions in STO would be a whole lot more complex than that. This is why I shoot down most ideas as they would at the minimum add millions to the already huge budget and years to the development cycle. This wouldn't be feasible and would be a huge risk for any developer to do.
I only really have three main requirements for a Player Crew solution.
You're Idea is one of a very few I've heard that meets all of these requirements so it has merit. It uses game play mechanics that are already present in the game and could be an easy 'add-on' at some later date. it also is totally optional content and even compensates for the unpredictability of other players. All three of your positions also have activities that would occupy everyone involved and wouldn't leave anyone sitting for long periods of time with nothing to do but pick their nose while they watch others have all the fun. Like I said before it's a very well thought out and developed idea that could work. Well done!
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Wow. That is all I have to say. I have been following STO since what, 05/06 something like that. Was even on the old STOnet forums. And have read a lot here, and well Bren I have seen you time and time again shoot down anything resembling Player crews, tho I admit I am with you in that a lot of what people have been asking for just cant be accomplished, they dont see the real world problems. But its really nice that you see my "vision" of player crews. Very small and an added feature. I think in my idea if taken the time and really refined it could be a GREAT addition to an already great looking game. And what it all comes down to really is we all want a great Star trek game to play, right?
But yes I love a lot of what cryptic has put out there and what direction they seem to be going with the game, and when I talk about player crews I dont want to take away from that, only ADD to it. I think with my idea in can incorporate so much, and the ability to go from your solo manned ship to a player crewed ship almost seamlessly. I know it will never happen at launch, but heres hoping maybe someday.
You're right, I have been pretty hard on the player crew people but mostly because most of their ideas are just not feasible with the technological limits involved with a MMO. At least 90% of the Ideas I've read go far above what could possibly be incorporated into a game and still remain on a reasonable budget and time table. Also most of them would require the entire project to be scraped and restarted as they are just to intertwined with the core mechanics of the game. People like to also say, "Well if SWG could do it why can't STO?" The answer to that is simple....In SWG all positions except for the Pilot and maybe the copilot only pointed and shot a gun and all of the functions of the pilot/copilot were already programed for solo ships. Positions in STO would be a whole lot more complex than that. This is why I shoot down most ideas as they would at the minimum add millions to the already huge budget and years to the development cycle. This wouldn't be feasible and would be a huge risk for any developer to do.
I only really have three main requirements for a Player Crew solution.
You're Idea is one of a very few I've heard that meets all of these requirements so it has merit. It uses game play mechanics that are already present in the game and could be an easy 'add-on' at some later date. it also is totally optional content and even compensates for the unpredictability of other players. All three of your positions also have activities that would occupy everyone involved and wouldn't leave anyone sitting for long periods of time with nothing to do but pick their nose while they watch others have all the fun. Like I said before it's a very well thought out and developed idea that could work. Well done!
Bren
I completely agree with the 3 things you have listed that Player crew requirements should meet. I will admit many years ago when STO was announced I was one of the people dreaming up crazy thoughts of living life on a starship, advancing in the ranks, having big crews of like 20+ people. But as time has passed like you Ive come to understand the real world issues involving PC crews. And this is a game and it does need to be fun. Ive watched all the PAX videos, basically anything cryptic has put out and I am impressed with what they have so far. And thank you for understanding that I want PC crews as an "add-on". What I think a lot of people dont realize is that when they hear someone say "Player crews" they just assume the worst and that we want a star trek SIM and that couldnt be the furthest from the truth(well for the majority of us i suppose..haha). Another thing they dont understand is that they think if cryptic does decide to develop something like this in the future that they will cease all development on new content from the game. Like that will be the ONLY thing new coming in. I think cryptic is talented enough to take a year to develop something like this all the while keep working on other content/fixes/more missions/stuff with fleets.
But once again I really thank you for understanding what I'm proposing. And also how this is not a "deal breaker" for me and I will definitely playing this game regardless, its just something im passionate about because I think it could be a great add-on feature that will help expand the STO game.
Howard... If I've read your original post, and understood the way I believe I have... I'll pose this as a potential problem...
It's great that you break down what happens when someone, or two someones are missing... and, to be honest what you propose sounds good... But in all honesty what happens when they are all present?
You've got the "Science" guy running his scans... How much time do you think that's going to take, in say, a three hour time frame of game play? I mean, sure, the series have people spending hours in Astrometrics running this check, or that. But in an MMO, what is he expected to do. There isn't really a lag time when traveling, and for good reason. So, doing cursory scans is just that.. cursory.
Taking that idea for the Tactical player. What is he doing when you are on an exploration mission?
I like the way you can explain the way it can function when the player in your crew can't be present.. just make it like the game is already being created... but seriously... What are they going to be doing for the brunt of time they are on with the specifics of the way the game can be made?
I can see this working if it were any other space game, where PvP was the central concern of the game. I can *almost* see something like this being workable for the Klingon faction.. because they are more war-like and are generally "looking for a fight" to build their or their House's honor. But when dealing with the Federation... even in a time of war, their main concern is exploration and making contact with "new life and new civilaztions."
That's just the way I see it. When I first heard about STO, it was under Perpetual. I was playing both City of Heroes, and WoW off and on. The steady group I teamed with in both games was excited about the idea of player crews, and I will admit that I was wanting to go in that direction as well. But, after Cryptic took over, and explained their direction, and the reasons behind it.. I had to admit that it will be better the way they have it now. It just makes more sense this way. To them... and to me.
Additionally... with the xp issue. People have real lives. Some people have a condition called "altitis." What happens on a multiplayer ship where the "Captain" is missing.. sickness, kids.. that Klingon alt of his... etc. How is that player going to be able to "keep up" skills wise with his subordinates? Say, the "Captain" is a RL military man/woman and is deployed. Who takes over the ship?
Seriously.. you have decent ideas for what you'd like to see implemented... I just don't see it as being possible, or in a lot of ways appropriate in STO
Peace
That's solved rather simply by creating a pool of players on a specific ship or segment of Starfleet and making -random- crew assignments possible for a mission. Of course, you could simply keep the same players regularly, but if your Engineer went TDY with the military, you could grab an Engineer from another ship.
That's solved rather simply by creating a pool of players on a specific ship or segment of Starfleet and making -random- crew assignments possible for a mission. Of course, you could simply keep the same players regularly, but if your Engineer went TDY with the military, you could grab an Engineer from another ship.
That sounds good.. except... in my limited experience in MMOs... (Five years in CoX, Four-ish years in WoW, brief stint in SWG [thanks alot SOE].. etc...etc... etc) that's akin to a PuG, or Pick Up Group.
Now, in a team scenario on a PuG, if you get an idiot "Leeeeeeroy Jeeeeeeeeeeenkins!!!11!' and he gets himself ganked, cest la vie.. the team trudges on, hopefully to a victory.
If that *idiot* is your new Captain... or just your Tactical... and he screws the pooch, that means you are ALL going to be respawning in Sickbay.. somewhere.
Which, again, in my limited MMO experience means.. not a lot of people are going to be avoiding those players like the plague.
That's solved rather simply by creating a pool of players on a specific ship or segment of Starfleet and making -random- crew assignments possible for a mission. Of course, you could simply keep the same players regularly, but if your Engineer went TDY with the military, you could grab an Engineer from another ship.
That sounds good.. except... in my limited experience in MMOs... (Five years in CoX, Four-ish years in WoW, brief stint in SWG [thanks alot SOE].. etc...etc... etc) that's akin to a PuG, or Pick Up Group.
Now, in a team scenario on a PuG, if you get an idiot "Leeeeeeroy Jeeeeeeeeeeenkins!!!11!' and he gets himself ganked, cest la vie.. the team trudges on, hopefully to a victory.
If that *idiot* is your new Captain... or just your Tactical... and he screws the pooch, that means you are ALL going to be respawning in Sickbay.. somewhere.
Which, again, in my limited MMO experience means.. not a lot of people are going to be avoiding those players like the plague.
Well... Not to nit pick but the Leeroy Jenkins types usually cause a party wipe just like Leeroy did in his now famous video. This would be no different than the situation your describing in STO. Unfortunately those types of players are in every MMO and are unavoidable. They will be in STO as well. This aspect would make STO as the OP describes no different than every other MMO with a party mechanic. Party wipes will happen even with a group of individual ships because of these types of players.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
I don't understand really what you are saying? Ok so everything does work out fine and no one in your party is a douche. The chances of any group, let alone a pickup group on ANY MMO grouping for more than 3 hours is kind of absurd. Ive played MMOs and when I did pickup groups it usually only was to complete 1 task we all had in common. If I grouped longer it was in my guild, and to us it was about the JOURNEY not the destination. If I group with my guild in STO we will probably be roll playing too.
But ok ill set this out for you, Cryptic has stated that the "episodic" missions will last about an hour. Well if i get a pickup group, we are gonna take a few minutes to warp to a place for a mission. Once in that mission probably be a space battle in a typical one. So we have a space battle and everyone mans there stations. After that most likely we will have to beam somewhere, so EVERYONE on the ship now beams to a surface and and do whatever needs to be accomplished to complete that part of the mission. Then sometimes like I have read we will beam back to ship for some climatic space fight again.
So to me a 3 man crew has PLENTY to do during that mission. And once the mission is done you can easily disband back to your own ships.
I don't see why anyone would try to find a PICKUP group and just be the tactical on their ship for 3+ hours. Like I stated before, never grouped that long when it wasn't people in my guild and we were RP/helping out new players/doing quests/ etc etc. So I really don't see your point of view at all. Like Bren said, Leeroy Jenkins is in EVERY MMO. Be smart about how you play, and have ways to counteract it is the best you can hope for.
Oh and one more thing. If you don't find grouping with other players on 1 ship enjoyable, then you NEVER have to, and on top of that grouping doesn't give an advantage, just a different experience in the game, more options to try to have fun.