Most fo the peoples real issues with the game is not LAG, Server related. It is Direction, Engine, Cameras, Controls, and Animation issues. Pretty much 90% of the game is what people dont' like. I don't care what beta stage you are in.. that is ALOT.
They still have time to make some changed and polish up the WASD movement (add it) and that would be a start
Have to agree with the original poster's post title; this game is sadly lacking.
Point and click is the absolute worst method of movement that could or has ever been implemented in MMORPGs.... it sucks the fluidity completely out of a constantly changing environment. If this were a strategic, turn-based game it would work. It isn't. Regardless of those who advocated it in Shadowbane, the truth of the matter is that it reduced the fluidity of the game. The claim that this interface reduced lag was sorely mistaken. If anything, the constant course corrections requiring plotting of each and every character with every mouse click could only add to lag. Despite its many other issues, the very first thing that put players off of SB was the PnC movement interface.
Without saying too much else about game mechanics.... ugh. The interface is clunky and there are too many layers to what should be easy, intuitive actions.
I am also personally disappointed with games that take screenshots showing their graphics from the most appealing angles, regardless of how unrealistic those angles would be during gameplay. Those graphics are NOT what you see while playing the game, period.
I was so put off by many aspects of Wish that it is clear the game is not for me.
EDIT: For those saying "this is just a beta", game mechanics like PnC movement and poorly designed animations will NOT change before retail. The code rewrite required to change a PnC-based game to a WASD game is enormous; it changes every dynamic of how the server tracks client movement in-game and that affects the performance of the game as a whole. If you are vehemently anti-PnC, as I am, I can practically guarantee that this will not change before retail.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq Adnihilo Beorn Judge's Edge Somnulus Perfect Black ---------------------- Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2 Everquest / Everquest 2 Anarchy Online Shadowbane Dark Age of Camelot Star Wars Galaxies Matrix Online World of Warcraft Guild Wars City of Heroes
just for the ppl that arent in beta yet, lemme ease your pain. ive been in for 3 days and played maybe 3 hours. the servers are down way more than they are up. goto the beta page and all u see every hour on the hour. server up, server crashed, server up...oh nm it crashed again.
this game has ALOT of potential...whether it will be realized or not, still remains to be seen.
like i said b4 though, i really have my doubts they can support 10k+ on one server without alot more time in testing. we shall see
For those complaining about the world graphics, did you even get out of the tutorial area? I started in the Cyclops capital and its BEAUTIFUL even on low graphic quality.
As far as it taking 7-8 steps to make roast meat, yes, the first time. You can drag the recipe to your quick bar, click the button, click "Populate" so it puts all needed items in FOR you, then hit create. Easy enough to me. Are you complaining that you also have to build the fire? You only have to do that if your out in the wild, otherwise, use an oven. Its not that complicated.
Originally posted by Kane For those complaining about the world graphics, did you even get out of the tutorial area? I started in the Cyclops capital and its BEAUTIFUL even on low graphic quality. As far as it taking 7-8 steps to make roast meat, yes, the first time. You can drag the recipe to your quick bar, click the button, click "Populate" so it puts all needed items in FOR you, then hit create. Easy enough to me. Are you complaining that you also have to build the fire? You only have to do that if your out in the wild, otherwise, use an oven. Its not that complicated.
It is more then just that.. that was a clunky example.
And if you think the graphics are "Beautiful" then you must look for different things.
The Graphics are OK.
To say they are beutiful is stretching it.
I take it you never came from a gaming background where you played games such as , Unreal, Unreal 2, UT2004, HL2, HALO, HALO 2, TRIBES 2, TRIBES 3, Doom 3, Ryzom, and other games that actually have Awesome graphics. Wish is pretty standard so far.
First things first, i know this is a beta, so all of you supporters of Wish dont tell me " OMG its still only beta, thats what beta is for, how can you critisize a game still in beta"....isnt that what beta is for...to critisize...
With that said, i have to say the things i dis-liked the most where the PnC and the clunky interface. I cant stand PnC outside of an RTS, because unlike some, i actually like to make my character move in fluid motions with the WASD keys. The interface to me was just plain crap. At times i would have to use both hands in order to open up inventory or other panels, because of the stupid CTRL that they make you use. Not sure if you can customize it because the server went down before i could try.But that doesnt exactly make the game fluid, when you have to pause to use both hands to open up a window.
You have no idea what your talking about. I have played nearly every title you've listed. There is something to be said about a game that has an organic, real look and feel. Sure, all those games look great, but none of them really feal "real". They feel like highly polished movie sets. Wish, to me, captures a realistic and organic environment in the somewhat simple graphic style. Please dont make such assinine assumptions in the future.
Originally posted by Warcriminal for me, Point and click controls are the bane of MMOs. I read that D&L will have PnC exclusively also...why?? -completely ruins the imersion imo
why not include both? Freeing up the keyboard for chatting is the usual excuse, and its a bad one at best.
anyways...sure sounds like Wish is another amateur affair -shame really
edit: I read that D&L will have arrow movement -still not as good as WASD but still a relief
Negatory, ace. DNL has both PNC and WASD. Ignorant :P www.darkandlight.net Read faq -> Technical -> Moves.
Originally posted by Kane You have no idea what your talking about. I have played nearly every title you've listed. There is something to be said about a game that has an organic, real look and feel. Sure, all those games look great, but none of them really feal "real". They feel like highly polished movie sets. Wish, to me, captures a realistic and organic environment in the somewhat simple graphic style. Please dont make such assinine assumptions in the future.
Umm. again.. buy a better video card if you think Wish looks better than HL2, or DOOM 3, or Ryzom.
I stand corrected, and glad to be so. I go my information from this forum http://ap.ofganareth.com/forum/index.php?act=SF&f=22 (news and new info) posted by blacksac in the D&L section of this site. However it just goes to show that WASD is something a lot of MMO players feel strongly about and ignoring this will spawn widespread protests.
the wish graphics are average at best, but on the beta forums the devs even say that there will new models and higher res textures implemented before release, but to judge them as they are now, nowhere near as good as HL2 or DOOM3, or Farcry, i would even say that Neverwinter Nights has better and more colourful graphics, but its early days yet and they will improve, and more effects and more details will be included.
as for the clunky interface, i disagree, crafting is complex, as it should be, i build my 1st sword yesterday, its better than the one i was carrying and i was like wow, i can craft something useful straight away, now i had to do a lot of traveling to get the bits of NPC's but once the player economy is into full swing it wont be so bad, i needed some leather, some ingots a smiths hammer and some lumber, so to get that on my own would take a while, so you are meant to buy the ingredients of other ppl, and as for having inventory windows open, its the same for crafting in a lot of games, even WoW...
the ctrl- thing dont bother me, makes it less likely to press the wrong button on the keyboard at the wrong time, eg, if your trying to type to someone, but aint clicked on a chat box, and some mob is attacking you, it means you dont bring up an inventory window or something which obscures your view, of course in an ideal world, it would all be customisable so you can set it how you want it, im sure that will get implemented, but as the servers are up and down like a hyperactivce yoyo i think they should work on stability rather than anything else, and thats primarily what this beta is about, making the game stable, the rest such as gfx, interface tweeks and so on will come in 2.5 and 3.0... 6 months is a long time.
I wanna play it myself so i can finally join in these fine discussions about wish, but it is good that i don't have my hopes to high anymore but i like complex crafting it makes it worth it, just as long as it is not boring it is ok
One day all will die, surely you but never I.
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time
I think the advantage to point and click versus WSAD is, is because of server lag, I think I heard somewhere it takes far lass bandwidth if the server know where you're going.
If ignorance is bliss, you'd think people would be happier when you point out what morons they are!
I heard that too, about the lag. I think it's because when you point and click you send one msg to the server and then your character is moved. With WASD you send the forward msg to the server, then it moves you. Since you continuosly press the forward button, then you are constantly sending msgs back and forth between you and the server. (At least I think that is it anyway, I am SURE someone will flam...I mean correct me if I am wrong! LOL!)
Ya know, I'm through arguing with a fool, taking up someone elses thread and going way off on our own tangent. I'm not even going to respond to your stupidity anymore.
While I don't agree with any of the original thread creators points. I'm not going to dispute them. Not my place to tell him/her what they feel is bad in game is wrong. If they don't like the game they just don't like the game. Personally I love the time I have spent in Wish. Look forward to playing it in 3.0 Beta and at Retail.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
i think every single person who a) insulted PnC movement (disagreed thought that there should be W S A D) b) disblevied in 1 seemless world c) disblived in the game's engine to handle the amount of players(yes it does have its limits but its not as low as you average mmorpg) d) ummm i know i had somthing else... i edit when i remember it
should read this website (yes it is 7 pages long), if you can understand all of it (or the main paragraphs) you will see what goes on behind the ICE engine that propells wish and understand why everything is the way it is..... http://www.acmqueue.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=115&page=1
oh and if your too lazy too ill just tell you this PnC is because the ICE engine has to handle all that player data, and send it through many data types and to all the other computers that need to know that data in order to update their screens in the fasted way possible. the quickest, best, "un-laggiest" way to do that is to employ a PNC engine and a unique pathfinding engine... also the other thing about the server is that it can be upadted while players are in the game... can your WOW or FFXI do that.. Live Content is all about entertaining large amounts of players but in the same fasion as a PnP rpg.. to do that the server must be able to change its landscape.. spawn entites .. and much much more all while the players are in the game.. there is no patch screen while live content happens or else it would be pointless.
This is a great game. If your expecting EQ, EQ2 or WoW your going to be sorely disappointed. It's not like them at all. This is an RPG adventure game. It's brilliant! If you want a game that has a slower pace and is far more friendly to the rpg player you've found it in Wish. PnC is kind of annoying but thats the limitations of the engine and really when it comes down to games design PnC is just fine. PnC would never work in games like EQ or WoW but this isnt a thing like those. No FPS here !! WooHoo!
Comments
What he said.
Most fo the peoples real issues with the game is not LAG, Server related. It is Direction, Engine, Cameras, Controls, and Animation issues. Pretty much 90% of the game is what people dont' like. I don't care what beta stage you are in.. that is ALOT.
They still have time to make some changed and polish up the WASD movement (add it) and that would be a start
Frank Mesa
Pangaea Games Inc.
Paridine: Fantasy Combat to the Extreme!
http://www.pangaeagames.com
Have to agree with the original poster's post title; this game is sadly lacking.
Point and click is the absolute worst method of movement that could or has ever been implemented in MMORPGs.... it sucks the fluidity completely out of a constantly changing environment. If this were a strategic, turn-based game it would work. It isn't. Regardless of those who advocated it in Shadowbane, the truth of the matter is that it reduced the fluidity of the game. The claim that this interface reduced lag was sorely mistaken. If anything, the constant course corrections requiring plotting of each and every character with every mouse click could only add to lag. Despite its many other issues, the very first thing that put players off of SB was the PnC movement interface.
Without saying too much else about game mechanics.... ugh. The interface is clunky and there are too many layers to what should be easy, intuitive actions.
I am also personally disappointed with games that take screenshots showing their graphics from the most appealing angles, regardless of how unrealistic those angles would be during gameplay. Those graphics are NOT what you see while playing the game, period.
I was so put off by many aspects of Wish that it is clear the game is not for me.
EDIT: For those saying "this is just a beta", game mechanics like PnC movement and poorly designed animations will NOT change before retail. The code rewrite required to change a PnC-based game to a WASD game is enormous; it changes every dynamic of how the server tracks client movement in-game and that affects the performance of the game as a whole. If you are vehemently anti-PnC, as I am, I can practically guarantee that this will not change before retail.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Yes.
Just to make a Fire, and then cook meat. Takes 7-8 Steps. And you have to have skills, and inventory open and drag things around.
Just too clunky.
Frank Mesa
Pangaea Games Inc.
Paridine: Fantasy Combat to the Extreme!
http://www.pangaeagames.com
just for the ppl that arent in beta yet, lemme ease your pain. ive been in for 3 days and played maybe 3 hours. the servers are down way more than they are up. goto the beta page and all u see every hour on the hour. server up, server crashed, server up...oh nm it crashed again.
this game has ALOT of potential...whether it will be realized or not, still remains to be seen.
like i said b4 though, i really have my doubts they can support 10k+ on one server without alot more time in testing. we shall see
A.K.A. Wrython Hellsong, lvl 31 Erudite Dirge -- BefallenJoined - July 2004
For those complaining about the world graphics, did you even get out of the tutorial area? I started in the Cyclops capital and its BEAUTIFUL even on low graphic quality.
As far as it taking 7-8 steps to make roast meat, yes, the first time. You can drag the recipe to your quick bar, click the button, click "Populate" so it puts all needed items in FOR you, then hit create. Easy enough to me. Are you complaining that you also have to build the fire? You only have to do that if your out in the wild, otherwise, use an oven. Its not that complicated.
It is more then just that.. that was a clunky example.
And if you think the graphics are "Beautiful" then you must look for different things.
The Graphics are OK.
To say they are beutiful is stretching it.
I take it you never came from a gaming background where you played games such as , Unreal, Unreal 2, UT2004, HL2, HALO, HALO 2, TRIBES 2, TRIBES 3, Doom 3, Ryzom, and other games that actually have Awesome graphics. Wish is pretty standard so far.
I just hold my bar much higher than you do.
Frank Mesa
Pangaea Games Inc.
Paridine: Fantasy Combat to the Extreme!
http://www.pangaeagames.com
First things first, i know this is a beta, so all of you supporters of Wish dont tell me " OMG its still only beta, thats what beta is for, how can you critisize a game still in beta"....isnt that what beta is for...to critisize...
With that said, i have to say the things i dis-liked the most where the PnC and the clunky interface. I cant stand PnC outside of an RTS, because unlike some, i actually like to make my character move in fluid motions with the WASD keys. The interface to me was just plain crap. At times i would have to use both hands in order to open up inventory or other panels, because of the stupid CTRL that they make you use. Not sure if you can customize it because the server went down before i could try.But that doesnt exactly make the game fluid, when you have to pause to use both hands to open up a window.
You have no idea what your talking about. I have played nearly every title you've listed. There is something to be said about a game that has an organic, real look and feel. Sure, all those games look great, but none of them really feal "real". They feel like highly polished movie sets. Wish, to me, captures a realistic and organic environment in the somewhat simple graphic style. Please dont make such assinine assumptions in the future.
Negatory, ace. DNL has both PNC and WASD. Ignorant :P www.darkandlight.net Read faq -> Technical -> Moves.
Umm. again.. buy a better video card if you think Wish looks better than HL2, or DOOM 3, or Ryzom.
Frank Mesa
Pangaea Games Inc.
Paridine: Fantasy Combat to the Extreme!
http://www.pangaeagames.com
poll
Frank Mesa
Pangaea Games Inc.
Paridine: Fantasy Combat to the Extreme!
http://www.pangaeagames.com
I stand corrected, and glad to be so. I go my information from this forum http://ap.ofganareth.com/forum/index.php?act=SF&f=22 (news and new info) posted by blacksac in the D&L section of this site. However it just goes to show that WASD is something a lot of MMO players feel strongly about and ignoring this will spawn widespread protests.
the wish graphics are average at best, but on the beta forums the devs even say that there will new models and higher res textures implemented before release, but to judge them as they are now, nowhere near as good as HL2 or DOOM3, or Farcry, i would even say that Neverwinter Nights has better and more colourful graphics, but its early days yet and they will improve, and more effects and more details will be included.
as for the clunky interface, i disagree, crafting is complex, as it should be, i build my 1st sword yesterday, its better than the one i was carrying and i was like wow, i can craft something useful straight away, now i had to do a lot of traveling to get the bits of NPC's but once the player economy is into full swing it wont be so bad, i needed some leather, some ingots a smiths hammer and some lumber, so to get that on my own would take a while, so you are meant to buy the ingredients of other ppl, and as for having inventory windows open, its the same for crafting in a lot of games, even WoW...
the ctrl- thing dont bother me, makes it less likely to press the wrong button on the keyboard at the wrong time, eg, if your trying to type to someone, but aint clicked on a chat box, and some mob is attacking you, it means you dont bring up an inventory window or something which obscures your view, of course in an ideal world, it would all be customisable so you can set it how you want it, im sure that will get implemented, but as the servers are up and down like a hyperactivce yoyo i think they should work on stability rather than anything else, and thats primarily what this beta is about, making the game stable, the rest such as gfx, interface tweeks and so on will come in 2.5 and 3.0... 6 months is a long time.
One day all will die, surely you but never I.
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time
I think the advantage to point and click versus WSAD is, is because of server lag, I think I heard somewhere it takes far lass bandwidth if the server know where you're going.
If ignorance is bliss, you'd think people would be happier when you point out what morons they are!
It mostly correct:)
I don't want to get technical on this.
Ya know, I'm through arguing with a fool, taking up someone elses thread and going way off on our own tangent. I'm not even going to respond to your stupidity anymore.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
i think every single person who
a) insulted PnC movement (disagreed thought that there should be W S A D)
b) disblevied in 1 seemless world
c) disblived in the game's engine to handle the amount of players(yes it does have its limits but its not as low as you average mmorpg)
d) ummm i know i had somthing else... i edit when i remember it
should read this website (yes it is 7 pages long), if you can understand all of it (or the main paragraphs) you will see what goes on behind the ICE engine that propells wish and understand why everything is the way it is.....
http://www.acmqueue.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=115&page=1
oh and if your too lazy too ill just tell you this PnC is because the ICE engine has to handle all that player data, and send it through many data types and to all the other computers that need to know that data in order to update their screens in the fasted way possible.
the quickest, best, "un-laggiest" way to do that is to employ a PNC engine and a unique pathfinding engine...
also the other thing about the server is that it can be upadted while players are in the game... can your WOW or FFXI do that.. Live Content is all about entertaining large amounts of players but in the same fasion as a PnP rpg.. to do that the server must be able to change its landscape.. spawn entites .. and much much more all while the players are in the game.. there is no patch screen while live content happens or else it would be pointless.
Mind giving me your account please if you dont like the game? i would like to try it
Thankie
This is a great game. If your expecting EQ, EQ2 or WoW your going to be sorely disappointed. It's not like them at all. This is an RPG adventure game. It's brilliant! If you want a game that has a slower pace and is far more friendly to the rpg player you've found it in Wish. PnC is kind of annoying but thats the limitations of the engine and really when it comes down to games design PnC is just fine. PnC would never work in games like EQ or WoW but this isnt a thing like those. No FPS here !! WooHoo!
Make a difference!
i completly agree with copeland and hope that the server is up when i get home....
and my computer can handle this game....
One day all will die, surely you but never I.
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time