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Good FFA PvP Fantasy Sandbox Coming Soon?
daywalker27
Member UncommonPosts: 148
Why is it so hard for a competent group of developers that are well funded to deliver on a game like this?
There's a market for it, maybe not as big as a themepark game, but it has the loyal audience that if it's good, it can reach 100-200k Subs easily, and if it's really good, it will expand this part of the genre even more.
I mean, do we really have to rely on Mortal Online to be the next sandbox. The game's beta is worse than DF's, and they already have preorders out.
I won't lie, I loved DF, mostly for it's political meta gaming and PvP. I also loved all the empty promises AV gave us. Also it's game engine is amazing. Hate it or love it, that game could host HUGE fights, with it's biggest issue being on the server being terrible and needing to get upgraded, and that's because it was extremely well made. Not to mention I think it looked fairly good. I mean, the animations and character models were prettty shitty, but the world itself was amazing.
I can't but think about how successful a game with all those empty promises AV made plus more, developed by a competent, well funded company would be.
So, I ask the question, when will we get one of these?
(PS: TSW looks like garbage, EarthRise looks like garbage, MO looks like garbage, Fallen Earth looks like and plays like garbage)
Comments
Well maybe you answered your own question.
Besides the fact that two game companies are trying to make their games work (dark fall, mortal online) you said your self that they would get 100-200k easily.
So given the risks that mmo creators take, in the end they are only going to make a limited amount of money. And is it enough to actualy recoup their losses and go forward with developement?
Gamers seeem to live in some bizarre fantasy world (hmmm, an interesting analogy given the topic) where they think game devs are guys who should do it for the love of games, not care about finances and create their fabled game of shangrila that will give them everything they want.
Game developers are people too. They have lives and responsibilities and will eventually have to retire. I'm pretty sure that if they probably want a decent standard of living, take vacations, invest for retirement, have a decent house or area to live in then they will have to be in a company that is successful.
In essence they need to make money.
so putting forth all that effort to only make very little and possibly not recoup their investment/losses (and taking subs and multiplying it by 100-200k is not an indication of how much money they will make when compared to expenses) or even just fail before they get out of the door (gods and heros I'm looking at you) might not really be something that any game company wants to do.
And what happens to the small passioinate developer who doesn't have a lot of resources? They have to contend with petulant demanding fans who expect them to deliver something insanely great when the realities of game design seem to intimate that it's an exceptionally difficult road.
As for mortal online beta, you seem to insinuate that you played it. From what I've seen of their beta info it looks like an actual beta. Not a "our game is about to launch and we want to show it off". I imagine that this reall is what a beta is about.
I remember beta testing a single player game which had huge issues. We would get disks in the mail and the features were being added while we were testing. That was beta. What players have gotten used to seems to be more like a "let's polish it before we go gold" type of thing.
So given the small company making MO maybe they should be cut a little bit of slack. They seem to be more up front than the creators of DF. then again, DF seems to be a working game. It might have its issues but in the end they did it. They took the risks and forged forward and did what they thought they had to in order to get the game out there.
If anyone has ever created something of signifiant scope I think they would know the effort it takes to bring an idea to light. Especially when other people are involved.
So I think players who want a more hardcore gamng experience are going to have to rely upon small but passionate companies to create games where the players are going to have to be more patient and more accepting of issues as that is where your games are going to come from.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'm more against of MO doing preorders so early.
And DF has a dead population, partly to do with this website and the others that gave it such a harsh time launching, and of course it's early launch.
No one wants to play a game with such a huge world by themselves.
Trust me, no one played DF for it's pve
But that's the thing, people don't have to do the preorder. In essence they needed money for development. Where are they going to get it? the fans.
Do you know the internet show "The Guild"? They had shot some episodes but in the end they couldn't go forward without more money. So they put a paypal donation link on their site and were able to go forth because of the fans. of course, eventually microsoft would sponsor them but that's how they were able to continue.
I personally have no problems investing in things I believe in. Even things that don't get me a huge return (provided that I don't need a return on that particular investmen).
Becuase of this I keep a vanguard account and will continually keep that vanguard account until they close it. I like the game, it does have its issues but it needs investment. Granted my one sub won't do it all but I am voiting with my wallet in my small way. I'm sure there are other players who are doing the same.
So investing in MO is not necassarily a bad thing.
Let's put it this way, the game company making MO is putting more on the line to pull it off than players are by putting 50-60+ (or whatever) dollars down.
But you don't have to get the preorder. Just wait until the game is finished.
As far as dark fall goes, yes, granted there are a lot of bad reviews. But any good that will happen for the game is going to be word of mouth by the players. They are going to get their buddies to subscribe, etc. It will be a long hard road for them but they might succeed. Or not. But at least the players who believe in them played the game. This can only be good because the more obvious it is that there is an audience for a game like this then the more a developer might take notice.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But that's the thing, people don't have to do the preorder. In essence they needed money for development. Where are they going to get it? the fans.
Do you know the internet show "The Guild"? They had shot some episodes but in the end they couldn't go forward without more money. So they put a paypal donation link on their site and were able to go forth because of the fans. of course, eventually microsoft would sponsor them but that's how they were able to continue.
I personally have no problems investing in things I believe in. Even things that don't get me a huge return (provided that I don't need a return on that particular investmen).
Becuase of this I keep a vanguard account and will continually keep that vanguard account until they close it. I like the game, it does have its issues but it needs investment. Granted my one sub won't do it all but I am voiting with my wallet in my small way. I'm sure there are other players who are doing the same.
So investing in MO is not necassarily a bad thing.
Let's put it this way, the game company making MO is putting more on the line to pull it off than players are by putting 50-60+ (or whatever) dollars down.
But you don't have to get the preorder. Just wait until the game is finished.
As far as dark fall goes, yes, granted there are a lot of bad reviews. But any good that will happen for the game is going to be word of mouth by the players. They are going to get their buddies to subscribe, etc. It will be a long hard road for them but they might succeed. Or not. But at least the players who believe in them played the game. This can only be good because the more obvious it is that there is an audience for a game like this then the more a developer might take notice.
People are preordering without know what they are getting.
Also, MO's core gameplay is wrong imo.
People die way too fast. What's the fun with 3 hits and your dead. I know the game is trying to be realistic, but I just think it started off in the wrong direction, and has to change way too much for me to like it, albeit others make like it.
I made a post similar to this a few days back. Gone are the days of Ultima Online and AC-Darktide. Now all people hear when they see FFA Pvp is griefing. The problem is what drove the hardcore FFA pvp fans away from ultima online brought the populations of the game to neverbefore seen highs. Ultima Online: Renaissance was released in 2000 and this is where they split the word into 2 copies and completely killed FFA PvP. But it's population peaked in 2003, which is another nail in the coffin for FFA PvP.
Honestly, I never had more fun than in Ultima Online, even PvE kept you on your toes(before 2000) because you never knew if you were going to get jumped or not. Ultima Online to me, had the perfect Risk/Reward system, death wasn't trivial, especially to murderers.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any FFA PvP game, at least not from a company that has any type of funding. I wish it wasn't true, but EVE is about as good as it will ever get currently.
Me, I'm going to play AION and hope the RvR is as good as DAoC and maybe even less elitist/buff-bot reliant.
I think you are ruling out Mortal Online far too early. I would say the game is still in early beta and probably wont be released in another 4-5 months. That is alot of time to get the game up and running and with plenty of content.
Not saying that for sure the game will be great but I think it is too early to count the game out.
My gaming blog
Because they always degenerate into gankfests. Next question?
Sounds like your in my situation.
I currently also have Aion preordered. Against my better judgement too. I guess when you are bored, want to play an MMO, and have a clan you've played with for a year, you will be up to do anything.
Because they always degenerate into gankfests. Next question?
Make a Risk/Reward system that actually lives up to it's name?
In the end, all preorders are ordering something without knowing what you are getting unless you have actually tried the game.
there is the old saying "let the buyer beware". If someone preorders and gets a crappy prodcut then there is a lesson there.
Otherwise, it seems to me that the people who are preordering want whatever perks come with the preorder, want to get an benefits to having a preorder and also that they believe in the project enough to throw the preorder cost to the game company.
Again, people don't have to preorder. No one is forcing them to do so. Most of us are not kids and we've been around the block once or twice. Or three times ; )
We know how to dress, clothe ourselves, pay our bills, save for retirement and make smart purchasing choices. We also no what happens with risk. In other words we don't need our parents holding our hands and telling us what to do/not to do with our money.
As far as the core gameplay being wrong, that is a matter of opinion. If the devs say the game will be realistic and want players to only die in a few hits then that is there choice. If players don't like it they don't have to subscribe and that is their choice.
it then speaks to the qustion of how much realism will players tolerate. I can easily see players stating that having long drawn out fights would also be the wrong choice as it's ridiculous.
the only issue I can see with having a player go down in a few hits is that the advantage goes to the player who surprises another player and that the advantage is a huge one.
then again, hard core players might want that. Only time will tell.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I totally agree with you, OP.
The game I am still relying on, is Darkfall. But I'm not going to resub for another 6 months to a year or so yet, for now I'm enjoying Aion (yeah, It's not FFA PvP but I love the game for some reason).
It should be launching its second expansion which really does sound awesome, but I'm still going to wait for resubbing.
Also, the world isn't as dead as people who don't play think (on EU), I know because I still log on with my buddies account a few times a week just to check on things (still know our clan very well). The problem is, that everyone sticks in, and around their cities. All they do, is grind mobs for reagents (but most people are already completely stocked on reagents and gold), then macro spells in their player cities, and seiging. Everyone sticks in and around their guild cities, that's why the world its self seems empty.
However, their upcoming expansion should give people much more incentive to actually go out into the world, and even the sea. I don't know though, don't think I'll resub YET.
But, for me atleast, Darkfall is my only hope.
_________
Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
If DF is your only hope, you really should be subbing right now, and supporting them while they are trying to grow and stabilize the game. You sound like a fair weather fan who shows up at their hometown's baseball games only when they are in the pennant race but otherwise are no where to be found.
MO, DF, Earthrise are about it folks Time to put up or shut up on whether 'YOU" want one of these games to succeed.
Don't decry the people who pre-ordered MO, they are trying to support the game they hope will fit their playstyles and through such loyalty might be the only way a game such as these will ever see the light of day.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Considering the fact that two companies are trying and apparently failing miserably to deliver what you want, do you really even need to answer this question?
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
If DF is your only hope, you really should be subbing right now, and supporting them while they are trying to grow and stabilize the game. You sound like a fair weather fan who shows up at their hometown's baseball games only when they are in the pennant race but otherwise are no where to be found.
MO, DF, Earthrise are about it folks Time to put up or shut up on whether 'YOU" want one of these games to succeed.
Don't decry the people who pre-ordered MO, they are trying to support the game they hope will fit their playstyles and through such loyalty might be the only way a game such as these will ever see the light of day.
This is so true!!!
I realize that people don't want to play for products that aren't perfect. which is sort of ironic because there was a time where hand made crafts were what people paid for and there were imperfections in them. In some cases these imperfections are accepted when it comes to hand made furniture or instruments, etc.
However, if people wait for some sort of "someday" then that someday might not come. if people truly believe that Dark Fall can be all that it can be they might have to consider that they are part of the solution.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
There was plenty of griefing in both UO and AC. All games with PvP will have it's own share of griefing. Some people call it "hardcore" or name others "carebear" but it is all the same.
AION for some reason does not excite me at all which is a shame. I have been hoping for a good PvP game to play and as of yet have not found anything. I am still holding out for Mortal Online and plan on giving Darkfall a try, but I want to wait a bit before I drop the cash for that.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Simple: PvP will quite simply not play a game if there's one thing they don't like. Which means that even if there are 200,000 whinning people waiting for the game you're only going to get a fraction of that if you're lucky.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
However, there is a large difference with a finished product that has a few blemishes, and something that is just unfinished. I think the main problem is all development studios seem to be dishonest with their fans at the start and that dooms their future. I think EVE is the only game that stepped up and stated at release that the game isn't at the level where they would like it to be.
If DF is your only hope, you really should be subbing right now, and supporting them while they are trying to grow and stabilize the game. You sound like a fair weather fan who shows up at their hometown's baseball games only when they are in the pennant race but otherwise are no where to be found.
MO, DF, Earthrise are about it folks Time to put up or shut up on whether 'YOU" want one of these games to succeed.
Don't decry the people who pre-ordered MO, they are trying to support the game they hope will fit their playstyles and through such loyalty might be the only way a game such as these will ever see the light of day.
I partly agree with you but gamers should not "support" certain type of games if they are not any good. If they are good then people will buy it but if they are not then they wont, simple as that.
My gaming blog
mm if you got i7 processor eq2 might be for you ,the way eq2 is made is the faster your processor the higher the graphic setting can be
If DF is your only hope, you really should be subbing right now, and supporting them while they are trying to grow and stabilize the game. You sound like a fair weather fan who shows up at their hometown's baseball games only when they are in the pennant race but otherwise are no where to be found.
MO, DF, Earthrise are about it folks Time to put up or shut up on whether 'YOU" want one of these games to succeed.
Don't decry the people who pre-ordered MO, they are trying to support the game they hope will fit their playstyles and through such loyalty might be the only way a game such as these will ever see the light of day.
I agree with this, and I would do if I was in a financial state to do so. But I'm not.
Thing is though, at the end of the day, they're a business. Not a charity. Unless I was plenty well off, fairly easy life with plenty of disposable income, then I'd sub without playing. But right now? No, definately not.
_________
Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.