Sorry bud, but I think you're way off base. The trait system has 20 slots. WoW's talent system has 70. The traits you can get in LoTRO pretty much do nothing but buff your stats or abilities a little bit. WoW talents do this, but also grant entirely new abilities. And let's not even talk about the fact that in LoTRO, you have to grind your face off to get access to most of the traits you might want to equip. You are bit off base here... You certainly get new abilities in Lotro based on how you trait (ie, Raging Blades for champs, Bard's Arrow for hunters, etc...). I would agree that in WoW you become more specialized based on how you trait though. It depends on the class though. A DPS Loremaster and a Debuff/CC LM are drastically different. A Warrior Skald/Warspeech minstrel is much different than a healing minstrel. Every class I'm aware of has 2 basic roles and can pretty much be aligned very closely with one or two WoW classes. The fact that they've done a little reshuffling of abilities from one archetype to another doesn't make it revolutionary: Not revolutionary, but each class has some interesting mechanics (see below)... Hunter: dps and cc (with some travel abilities) -- Hunter/MAGE Hunters use the focus mechanic which actually makes the class highly skilled based. Interestingly, the new WoW expansion introduces a similar mechanic (it's actually called focus as well) to hunters. Guardian: tanking or dps -- Warrior If you roll a Guardian in Lotro, good luck becoming DPS in a group... You will probably be tanking. The big difference between tanking in WoW and Lotro is guardians don't have a skill like Thunderclap (6 second cooldown, unlimited targets, enhanced threat). Guardians rely more on taunts and switching targets to maintain agro. The warrior class in WoW is pretty unique with stance dancing and weapon swapping... Champ comes closest because they do some stance dancing and Fervour is sort of like Rage... Loremaster: ranged dps, healing, cc -- Priest/Mage LMs primary role in raids is debuffing/CC... in PvMP it's probably DPS and curing and power management and stundots... Really this is a unique class.... Oh and they have pets. Minstrel: healing or melee dps -- Pally I think you mean captains are similar to paladins... Ministrel is light armor and nothing like a paladin. Big difference between a cappy and pally is that cappies have limited self-healing, and almost no AoEs (and are not OP like pallies!) Burglar: Rogue Yup... fairly obvious Champion: melee dps or light tanking -- DK/Warrior/Pally/Druid Discussed above a bit... Fervour is an interesting mechanic and very difficult to master. I won't comment on the new classes, because I don't know enough about them. They are both pretty unique... RKs are unique in an overpowered way lol. Equipment customization is a wash, I would say, because LoTRO has legendary weapon options, but WoW has gems and enchants and a wider variety of item types (dps, pvp, tanking) which pretty much accomplish the same thing if not more (except you can apply them to every item instead of just 2 or 3). And finally 95% of LoTRO's quests are kill x, get y types with no interesting mechanics whatsoever, and they all pretty much repeat each time you progress to a new area. Yes, they do follow an interesting storyline, as I mentioned in my first post. But they also lack some of the fun factor and variety you get with some WoW quests (like jousting combat, riding a torpedo into an enemy ship, piloting a dragon, or riding one through the sky as you try to kill it.) That's not to say that LoTRO should have you flying around on dragons, but I'm almost a third of the way through LoTRO, and have only seen one or two quests that incorporate an interesting mechanics. The fight against the creature in the black pool is all that comes to mind. The big difference between levelling in WoW and Lotro for me is that in Lotro the epic storyline provides really ties things together and gives you something to invest in emotionally. In WoW you're doing quests and PvPing... You're just doing whatever you can to get to lvl 80. In Lotro you've got the book quest to come back to if you're not sure what to do. WoW has some fun quests but they don't work together as well as in Lotro.
The trait system has 20 slots. WoW's talent system has 70. The traits you can get in LoTRO pretty much do nothing but buff your stats or abilities a little bit. WoW talents do this, but also grant entirely new abilities. And let's not even talk about the fact that in LoTRO, you have to grind your face off to get access to most of the traits you might want to equip.
You are missing the fact that LOTRO Trait system is more flexible. Insted of three options, you can mix and match any traits you want (This included Virtues). Any of them. Trait sets are also an option, and give you another one based on the set. LOTRO also grants new abilities through traits, in fact most of the later game abilities are from traits, not trainers. As far as grind, most skill or class traits are granted because of your play style, use one ability over the others? You will gain an improved version. It is like to a use based system.
Grind is a player induced condition, and is not only found in one MMO or another. However simply playing will open most of them to you, with some requiring a little bit of effort on your part.
Every class I'm aware of has 2 basic roles and can pretty much be aligned very closely with one or two WoW classes. The fact that they've done a little reshuffling of abilities from one archetype to another doesn't make it revolutionary:
Did i say revolutionary? I said they were all hybrids, leaving you able to make some varied group combination and almost all the classes have at least three rolls they can choose from. Leading to a much more flexible system that the rigid: Tank, nuke, heal.
I won't comment on the new classes, because I don't know enough about them.
Equipment customization is a wash, I would say, because LoTRO has legendary weapon options, but WoW has gems and enchants and a wider variety of item types (dps, pvp, tanking) which pretty much accomplish the same thing if not more (except you can apply them to every item instead of just 2 or 3).
You may not care. But thats you. You can cusomize your apperiance, your traits, your skills,the color of your equipment, and with the large amount of consumables such as bowchants or shield spikes you can customize even your basic weapons. Legendary items are simply not comparable to gems and enchantments. I suspect you haven't even seen a legendary item. They also have 9 tiers of gems and item slots. Put all the systems together, and you have a huge range of persionalization.
And finally 95% of LoTRO's quests are kill x, get y types with no interesting mechanics whatsoever, and they all pretty much repeat each time you progress to a new area. Yes, they do follow an interesting storyline, as I mentioned in my first post. But they also lack some of the fun factor and variety you get with some WoW quests (like jousting combat, riding a torpedo into an enemy ship, piloting a dragon, or riding one through the sky as you try to kill it.) That's not to say that LoTRO should have you flying around on dragons, but I'm almost a third of the way through LoTRO, and have only seen one or two quests that incorporate an interesting mechanics. The fight against the creature in the black pool is all that comes to mind.
I disagree, LOTRO has some of the best scripted encounters anywhere, backed by some of the best writing in the MMO space. There is a ton of variety in ever level band for quests, its just the simplist to do for players are the kill quests, that my be why that's all you seem to see, having only scratched the surface of the game. Its not as if Wow is without them. As just FYI a new quest type was just added, they continue to add more content and new systems more frequently than any other dev house.
Your comparing systems only coming to Wow in the last expansion to a two year old game that has only had one about 8 months ago. Stay tuned for the expansion coming at the end of the year.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Areb, you and Mr. Bloodworth seem to be so far into your game that you cannot accept the ideas of others. I think it is very obvious that LotRO has much less customization than other games, notably here we are discussing WoW. Just the number of traits makes this obvious. The interesting difference is that there are not "trees" as there are in most other games, instead you choose more freely what you want (though they did add the trees in Moria now, three to a class, sound familiar?).
The Focus for WoW hunters will work more like Energy for Rogues in the same game; it will be nothing like focus for hunters in LotRO; in fact, focus works more like rage in WoW does. Champions have fervour, a similar mechanic.
The storyline quests do make the game. They tell a decent story, though it does seem to try too hard to make you part of assisting the fellowship. I know people want to touch that part of the world, but that story has been told, and it is frankly annoying to me to be trying to help out Frodo and company when I, as a lore buff, know what happens in the book, and what I am doing is decidedly NOT it. An example I used before is the quest series to help Aragorn after Frodo and the others have left the Pony. That is NOT what happened. Aragorn took them out as quickly as possible, and they were full of fear and urgency; it's one of the best scenes in the books.
Mr. Bloodworth, I can't say I am surprised at you. All you can do is tell me I am wrong, and mention things that aren't really on the table. You say I could use outfits, when I've already said the physical customization is fine if not better than average. I am forced to think perhaps you didn't read my post. Some things indicate this, such as reminding me that you gain traits largely based on your use of skills; I mentioned this in my post. I indicated that just because you gain them in a different way, the customization itself is not magically different. I did mention other games, largely because I wanted to say why I felt LotRO didn't offer anything drastically new, which is what Rikilii said from the beginning. You still haven't said anything...real. You talk around the issues.
Honestly, I started out really hoping you would explain to me what you see in the game. I love Tolkien, and so the idea of a Tolkien MMO really appeals to me. But if a game doesn't get me by level 20, I'm not going to get playing because you tell me it gets better. I need more. My first post had hope that you would, but after being here, and seeing several of your posts, I really think you are just a extreme fan and all you want to do is espouse the greatness of this particular game without explaining yourself. You tell me I have misconceptions, but you don't go into any detail about what they are. You use vague statements. This isn't a competition, no one is going to win or lose this. Why do you seem like you are fighting when we are asking for real information?
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Areb, you and Mr. Bloodworth seem to be so far into your game that you cannot accept the ideas of others. I think it is very obvious that LotRO has much less customization than other games, notably here we are discussing WoW. Just the number of traits makes this obvious. The interesting difference is that there are not "trees" as there are in most other games, instead you choose more freely what you want (though they did add the trees in Moria now, three to a class, sound familiar?). The Focus for WoW hunters will work more like Energy for Rogues in the same game; it will be nothing like focus for hunters in LotRO; in fact, focus works more like rage in WoW does. Champions have fervour, a similar mechanic.
The storyline quests do make the game. They tell a decent story, though it does seem to try too hard to make you part of assisting the fellowship. I know people want to touch that part of the world, but that story has been told, and it is frankly annoying to me to be trying to help out Frodo and company when I, as a lore buff, know what happens in the book, and what I am doing is decidedly NOT it. An example I used before is the quest series to help Aragorn after Frodo and the others have left the Pony. That is NOT what happened. Aragorn took them out as quickly as possible, and they were full of fear and urgency; it's one of the best scenes in the books.
Mr. Bloodworth, I can't say I am surprised at you. All you can do is tell me I am wrong, and mention things that aren't really on the table. You say I could use outfits, when I've already said the physical customization is fine if not better than average. I am forced to think perhaps you didn't read my post. Some things indicate this, such as reminding me that you gain traits largely based on your use of skills; I mentioned this in my post. I indicated that just because you gain them in a different way, the customization itself is not magically different. I did mention other games, largely because I wanted to say why I felt LotRO didn't offer anything drastically new, which is what Rikilii said from the beginning. You still haven't said anything...real. You talk around the issues. Honestly, I started out really hoping you would explain to me what you see in the game. I love Tolkien, and so the idea of a Tolkien MMO really appeals to me. But if a game doesn't get me by level 20, I'm not going to get playing because you tell me it gets better. I need more. My first post had hope that you would, but after being here, and seeing several of your posts, I really think you are just a extreme fan and all you want to do is espouse the greatness of this particular game without explaining yourself. You tell me I have misconceptions, but you don't go into any detail about what they are. You use vague statements. This isn't a competition, no one is going to win or lose this. Why do you seem like you are fighting when we are asking for real information?
I've noticed the same thing about a select few when it comes to LOTRO (Bloodworth especially). Its one thing to enjoy your game, but its anotehr to talk up your game like its the best MMO around. Give me a break
LOTRO is an average MMO at best, get over it...LOL. I played it for years because of a great Kinship and since leaving I've played at least two other mmorpgs that make LOTROs combat look horrrible. I tried LOTRO again about 1 month ago and I simply cant get back into the slow boring combat and bland character models.
LOTRO is doing great these days!! Not because its a great MMO, its because its based on Tolkiens work. Middle Earth sells LOTRO sadly, and imo they didnt a horrible job creating the world I grew up reading about as a kid. I know throw in the movies or read the books for a fix. :-)
i was thinking of signing up for the free trial, so i'm also interested in this topic. bump.
I played for about 7 months but quit before the expansion. I just grabbed a copy of the Special Edition of MoM at BB for 10 bucks. That includes the full original game and 30 days of free play. If the deal is still available (they might have the same deal for the download on lotro.com), that is probably a better alternative than the trial, because you get twice as long to evaluate it.
Since most people know about WoW, I will explain it by comparison to WoW:
1. Same basic game, class, quest, and leveling mechanics, but with less character customization;
2. More of a unified, story-based set of quest lines than WoW, including an extensive series of "Books," each consisting of about a dozen individual quests called "chapters," that generally follow the main story in the books, but obviously from a different angle. For instance, in one quest line, you help Aragorn find a component needed to reforge his sword (not sure if this is still available, since the Fellowship, which was parked in Rivendell during the initial release game, has now moved on with the release of the expansion, but you get the idea). In the beginning of MoM, you do quests that involve helping to cover the tracks of the Fellowship as it begins its journey to Moria.
3. Takes itself a lot more seriously than WoW, being based on the LOTR franchise;
4. Very little PVP (just one or two battlegrounds where you can either play your main character, or one of a few options to play a PVP-only monster character to fight against other people's main characters);
5. Less end-game content
6. More realistic graphics, and some very spectacular, but natural looking environments.
7. Crafting is slightly more involved, but overall very similar
8. Action wise, it is slower paced, a bit more realistic (e.g. no firing a bow and arrow while jumping through the air and spinning around toward your enemy)
9. Better overall community and a good range of RP activities, from light RP to heavy. Many people just like to gather, play music (there's a player-generated music system in the game) and chat.
Overall, the production quality is top notch. It's a good casual game experience, but has a much slower, relaxed (some people consider it boring) pace than some other MMOs out there.
I just posted a re-review in the forum, but your observation is totally in-line with mine.
The trait system has 20 slots. WoW's talent system has 70. The traits you can get in LoTRO pretty much do nothing but buff your stats or abilities a little bit. WoW talents do this, but also grant entirely new abilities. And let's not even talk about the fact that in LoTRO, you have to grind your face off to get access to most of the traits you might want to equip.
You are missing the fact that LOTRO Trait system is more flexible. Insted of three options, you can mix and match any traits you want (This included Virtues). Any of them. Trait sets are also an option, and give you another one based on the set. LOTRO also grants new abilities through traits, in fact most of the later game abilities are from traits, not trainers. As far as grind, most skill or class traits are granted because of your play style, use one ability over the others? You will gain an improved version. It is like to a use based system.
Grind is a player induced condition, and is not only found in one MMO or another. However simply playing will open most of them to you, with some requiring a little bit of effort on your part.
Every class I'm aware of has 2 basic roles and can pretty much be aligned very closely with one or two WoW classes. The fact that they've done a little reshuffling of abilities from one archetype to another doesn't make it revolutionary:
Did i say revolutionary? I said they were all hybrids, leaving you able to make some varied group combination and almost all the classes have at least three rolls they can choose from. Leading to a much more flexible system that the rigid: Tank, nuke, heal.
I won't comment on the new classes, because I don't know enough about them.
Equipment customization is a wash, I would say, because LoTRO has legendary weapon options, but WoW has gems and enchants and a wider variety of item types (dps, pvp, tanking) which pretty much accomplish the same thing if not more (except you can apply them to every item instead of just 2 or 3).
You may not care. But thats you. You can cusomize your apperiance, your traits, your skills,the color of your equipment, and with the large amount of consumables such as bowchants or shield spikes you can customize even your basic weapons. Legendary items are simply not comparable to gems and enchantments. I suspect you haven't even seen a legendary item. They also have 9 tiers of gems and item slots. Put all the systems together, and you have a huge range of persionalization.
And finally 95% of LoTRO's quests are kill x, get y types with no interesting mechanics whatsoever, and they all pretty much repeat each time you progress to a new area. Yes, they do follow an interesting storyline, as I mentioned in my first post. But they also lack some of the fun factor and variety you get with some WoW quests (like jousting combat, riding a torpedo into an enemy ship, piloting a dragon, or riding one through the sky as you try to kill it.) That's not to say that LoTRO should have you flying around on dragons, but I'm almost a third of the way through LoTRO, and have only seen one or two quests that incorporate an interesting mechanics. The fight against the creature in the black pool is all that comes to mind.
I disagree, LOTRO has some of the best scripted encounters anywhere, backed by some of the best writing in the MMO space. There is a ton of variety in ever level band for quests, its just the simplist to do for players are the kill quests, that my be why that's all you seem to see, having only scratched the surface of the game. Its not as if Wow is without them. As just FYI a new quest type was just added, they continue to add more content and new systems more frequently than any other dev house.
Your comparing systems only coming to Wow in the last expansion to a two year old game that has only had one about 8 months ago. Stay tuned for the expansion coming at the end of the year.
The purpose of my comparison wasn't to say one was better than the other. It was only to generally inform people who may be familiar with WoW of the major similarities and differences. I wasn't intending to get into a debate about nitty gritty details of one system compared to another. The things you point out, in my opinion, are not major issues. Suffice it to say that they are very similar in practically every major gameplay mechanic, each having systems that correspond to each other on an almost 1 to 1 basis, albeit with some appreciable variations in specific implementation details. The major differences are in the appearance, mood, and pace of the games.
As to specifics:
You may be right that the Trait system in LoTRO allows for more overall combinations, but you exhaggerate the simplicity of the Talent system in WoW ("only 3 choices") and ignore the fact that the overall affect of different Talent builds in WoW is more dramatic. And you also cannot deny that access to a significant subset of the Traits in LoTRO (specifically Virtues) requires some serious grinding on kill deeds.
I won't comment on the class differences, because I don't really think we're disagreeing there. However, what you say about LoTRO classes (3 different roles each) is not entirely true (e.g. a Guardian cannot heal), and to the extent it is true, it is also more or less true of most WoW classes (e.g. pallies and druids can dps, heal or tank)
Finally, you are right about cosmetic customization. LoTRO is far superior to WoW on this point, and yes, I do think this is important, to me at least.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
I've played LoTRO and WoW to max levels. Honestly, I'd say that the customization of your character's abilities is about on par in both games. WoW isn't as flexible about mixing and matching different traits (for example you can't slot something really high in the holy tree and really high in the shadow tree if you are a priest), however in practice most players in LoTRO tend to go for one of several similar builds for any given class so the net effect is similar (particularly now that line bonuses have been added) WoW has systems that LoTRO lacks, notably inscription and enchanting, however I would say that the Legendary Item system more than makes up for it.
In terms of appearance customization, LoTRO obviously wins hands down. However it's not because LoTRO is especially awesome, it's more because WoW sucks. WoW is the only mainstream MMO I know of that lacks both a dye system and an appearance slot system. Almost all the major western MMOs at least have one or the other.
I have also noticed a tendency for folks that think the customization in LoTRO sucks to not know what the hell they are talking about. Common myths include 1. Stats on items don't affect your character's performance much, 2. Racial traits don't make any difference, and 3. You can't gain or lose abilities by swapping out traits. All somewhat true before level 15 or 20 (low level racial traits consist of minor bonuses, you can't get any of your core stats over 100, and you can't yet unlock legendary traits), but utterly false at higher levels.
if you were comparing LoTRO to a game that does sport exceptional customization (for example City of Heroes or pre NGE SWG), you would have a good point. LoTRO is nowhere near as flexible as some MMOs. But saying that WoW has way better character customization than LoTRO is just expressing ignorance.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I've noticed the same thing about a select few when it comes to LOTRO (Bloodworth especially). Its one thing to enjoy your game, but its anotehr to talk up your game like its the best MMO around. Give me a break LOTRO is an average MMO at best, get over it...LOL. I played it for years because of a great Kinship and since leaving I've played at least two other mmorpgs that make LOTROs combat look horrrible. I tried LOTRO again about 1 month ago and I simply cant get back into the slow boring combat and bland character models. LOTRO is doing great these days!! Not because its a great MMO, its because its based on Tolkiens work. Middle Earth sells LOTRO sadly, and imo they didnt a horrible job creating the world I grew up reading about as a kid. I know throw in the movies or read the books for a fix. :-)
Damn you "played it for years" and you think it's an average game? I think you said in a typoish way that they did a horrible job creating the world as well.... It's jsut weird when people bash a game they played for a long time.
Anyways, Lotro *is* one of the best MMOs out there, according to the user reviews on this site. Not everyone is going to like it but from the reviews it is one of the best. It's ok not to like a game, and you are free to review it and voice your opinion.
My post earlier was mostly detailed comparisons of differences between WoW and Lotro because I find it interesting. I know quite a bit about Lotro including most classes. I've only been playing WoW about a month so I'm still learning.
Originally posted by rikilii Finally, you are right about cosmetic customization. LoTRO is far superior to WoW on this point, and yes, I do think this is important, to me at least.
As to specifics: You may be right that the Trait system in LoTRO allows for more overall combinations, but you exhaggerate the simplicity of the Talent system in WoW ("only 3 choices") and ignore the fact that the overall affect of different Talent builds in WoW is more dramatic. I disagree. The effects of slotting your character differently In LoTRO can be just as dramatic as it is in WoW particularly now that they have added line bonuses. One notable difference is that you won't get many traits that make a huge difference until pretty high levels in LoTRO. Any level 30 character off the same class will be pretty similar in LoTRO (due to the lack of trait slots if nothing else), whereas by level 30 in WoW you've gotten 20 points into one of your three trees and you can already tell a big difference.
And you also cannot deny that access to a significant subset of the Traits in LoTRO (specifically Virtues) requires some serious grinding on kill deeds. I personally like the system. Earning all of your traits becomes a game within the game. However, I agree that some of the virtues are indeed quite grindy.
I won't comment on the class differences, because I don't really think we're disagreeing there. However, what you say about LoTRO classes (3 different roles each) is not entirely true (e.g. a Guardian cannot heal), and to the extent it is true, it is also more or less true of most WoW classes (e.g. pallies and druids can dps, heal or tank) I'd agree that "viable roles per class" is similar in WoW and LoTRO. Like WoW most classes in LoTRO have two viable roles in end game content, and a few have three. LoTRO does scramble the classes a little bit more (for example roughly half the classes can act as back up healers in 6 mans and primary healers in 3 mans), and it arguably has roles that don't appear in WoW (crowd control specialist and power management specialist), but I think those are beside the point you are trying to make.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Areb, you and Mr. Bloodworth seem to be so far into your game that you cannot accept the ideas of others.
Not even. Im just posting info from my experiences, and comparing them other other games. There really isn't a MMO I haven't played. This one just happens to be one i am currently playing.
I'm not arguing anything. Its others that seem to "One up" forum war with me. You guys can think what you want. You asked for my opinion, i gave it, then you decided it was wrong because "your game" is better, and you dont understand what I am saying, and added attacks to my person to boot.
Enjoy.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I've noticed the same thing about a select few when it comes to LOTRO (Bloodworth especially). Its one thing to enjoy your game, but its anotehr to talk up your game like its the best MMO around. Give me a break LOTRO is an average MMO at best, get over it...LOL. I played it for years because of a great Kinship and since leaving I've played at least two other mmorpgs that make LOTROs combat look horrrible. I tried LOTRO again about 1 month ago and I simply cant get back into the slow boring combat and bland character models. LOTRO is doing great these days!! Not because its a great MMO, its because its based on Tolkiens work. Middle Earth sells LOTRO sadly, and imo they didnt a horrible job creating the world I grew up reading about as a kid. I know throw in the movies or read the books for a fix. :-)
Damn you "played it for years" and you think it's an average game? I think you said in a typoish way that they did a horrible job creating the world as well.... It's jsut weird when people bash a game they played for a long time.
Anyways, Lotro *is* one of the best MMOs out there, according to the user reviews on this site. Not everyone is going to like it but from the reviews it is one of the best. It's ok not to like a game, and you are free to review it and voice your opinion.
My post earlier was mostly detailed comparisons of differences between WoW and Lotro because I find it interesting. I know quite a bit about Lotro including most classes. I've only been playing WoW about a month so I'm still learning.
If you read above you can see that the reason I played for so long was because of a great kinship...I was also a raiding officer so I was sort of "stranded" for lack of a better word. LOTRO probly has one the best communities out there, so it wasnt hard to get sucked into that. I'm not bashing LOTRO either. Its a great game but lets not say it doesnt have any flaws...Turbine running it is one of the big ones LOL.
It is not "one of the best MMOs out there". Its all a matter of opition. A high rating on this site (mmorpg.com) means nothing to most people. Guild Wars should be much higher on the list imo. Different strokes for different folks sir.
For me LOTRO was an average MMO with some major flaws that ruined it for me. Moria was horrible compared to pre-moria middle earth....I honestly do wish LOTRO the best but I personally wont support a company that created an xpack such as Moria. They lost all my respect unfortionately.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying people won't like LOTRO. But to say it deserves the spot it has on this site. And to say its "one of the best MMOs out" is a joke. I know people that played LOTRO and quite 1 week in...its all a matter of opition. For example, a gamer that enjoys PvP of any kind would find LOTRO to be probly one of the worst MMOs out. I mean lets face the facts, if you enjoy anything other then pve/rp LOTRO is pretty much not for you.
"For me LOTRO was an average MMO with some major flaws that ruined it for me. Moria was horrible compared to pre-moria middle earth....I honestly do wish LOTRO the best but I personally wont support a company that created an xpack such as Moria. They lost all my respect unfortionately."
SoA was great. MoM was a letdown. Turbine is making a new MMO and the updates on LOTRO this year were dismal at best (as compared to last year). Personally I will be shifting my attention to AION soon as I am just bored with LOTRO. It's a great game if you have never played it, but there just is not enough there now to hold my interest. Maybe just maybe they will relase an expac that will entice me back.....we shall see.
"For me LOTRO was an average MMO with some major flaws that ruined it for me. Moria was horrible compared to pre-moria middle earth....I honestly do wish LOTRO the best but I personally wont support a company that created an xpack such as Moria. They lost all my respect unfortionately."
SoA was great. MoM was a letdown. Turbine is making a new MMO and the updates on LOTRO this year were dismal at best (as compared to last year). Personally I will be shifting my attention to AION soon as I am just bored with LOTRO. It's a great game if you have never played it, but there just is not enough there now to hold my interest. Maybe just maybe they will relase an expac that will entice me back.....we shall see.
I can understand the Moria disappointment... Besides the amazing spaces, it is very dark. THe actually questing had way too much soloing for me. There are no "scary" areas where you have to bring friends... It's all solo... But I think they've taken a step forward in end-game, in terms of instance quality, and the amount of stuff to do. Legendary items love em or hate em it's something new to do... Getting a great legendary can be a struggle but very satisfying when you end up with a good one. I like legendaries but I sort of miss having a bag full of weapons collected in SoA. So I'd say the game took a few steps forward and a few steps back when compared to SoA.
Comments
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Areb, you and Mr. Bloodworth seem to be so far into your game that you cannot accept the ideas of others. I think it is very obvious that LotRO has much less customization than other games, notably here we are discussing WoW. Just the number of traits makes this obvious. The interesting difference is that there are not "trees" as there are in most other games, instead you choose more freely what you want (though they did add the trees in Moria now, three to a class, sound familiar?).
The Focus for WoW hunters will work more like Energy for Rogues in the same game; it will be nothing like focus for hunters in LotRO; in fact, focus works more like rage in WoW does. Champions have fervour, a similar mechanic.
The storyline quests do make the game. They tell a decent story, though it does seem to try too hard to make you part of assisting the fellowship. I know people want to touch that part of the world, but that story has been told, and it is frankly annoying to me to be trying to help out Frodo and company when I, as a lore buff, know what happens in the book, and what I am doing is decidedly NOT it. An example I used before is the quest series to help Aragorn after Frodo and the others have left the Pony. That is NOT what happened. Aragorn took them out as quickly as possible, and they were full of fear and urgency; it's one of the best scenes in the books.
Mr. Bloodworth, I can't say I am surprised at you. All you can do is tell me I am wrong, and mention things that aren't really on the table. You say I could use outfits, when I've already said the physical customization is fine if not better than average. I am forced to think perhaps you didn't read my post. Some things indicate this, such as reminding me that you gain traits largely based on your use of skills; I mentioned this in my post. I indicated that just because you gain them in a different way, the customization itself is not magically different. I did mention other games, largely because I wanted to say why I felt LotRO didn't offer anything drastically new, which is what Rikilii said from the beginning. You still haven't said anything...real. You talk around the issues.
Honestly, I started out really hoping you would explain to me what you see in the game. I love Tolkien, and so the idea of a Tolkien MMO really appeals to me. But if a game doesn't get me by level 20, I'm not going to get playing because you tell me it gets better. I need more. My first post had hope that you would, but after being here, and seeing several of your posts, I really think you are just a extreme fan and all you want to do is espouse the greatness of this particular game without explaining yourself. You tell me I have misconceptions, but you don't go into any detail about what they are. You use vague statements. This isn't a competition, no one is going to win or lose this. Why do you seem like you are fighting when we are asking for real information?
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I've noticed the same thing about a select few when it comes to LOTRO (Bloodworth especially). Its one thing to enjoy your game, but its anotehr to talk up your game like its the best MMO around. Give me a break
LOTRO is an average MMO at best, get over it...LOL. I played it for years because of a great Kinship and since leaving I've played at least two other mmorpgs that make LOTROs combat look horrrible. I tried LOTRO again about 1 month ago and I simply cant get back into the slow boring combat and bland character models.
LOTRO is doing great these days!! Not because its a great MMO, its because its based on Tolkiens work. Middle Earth sells LOTRO sadly, and imo they didnt a horrible job creating the world I grew up reading about as a kid. I know throw in the movies or read the books for a fix. :-)
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
I played for about 7 months but quit before the expansion. I just grabbed a copy of the Special Edition of MoM at BB for 10 bucks. That includes the full original game and 30 days of free play. If the deal is still available (they might have the same deal for the download on lotro.com), that is probably a better alternative than the trial, because you get twice as long to evaluate it.
Since most people know about WoW, I will explain it by comparison to WoW:
1. Same basic game, class, quest, and leveling mechanics, but with less character customization;
2. More of a unified, story-based set of quest lines than WoW, including an extensive series of "Books," each consisting of about a dozen individual quests called "chapters," that generally follow the main story in the books, but obviously from a different angle. For instance, in one quest line, you help Aragorn find a component needed to reforge his sword (not sure if this is still available, since the Fellowship, which was parked in Rivendell during the initial release game, has now moved on with the release of the expansion, but you get the idea). In the beginning of MoM, you do quests that involve helping to cover the tracks of the Fellowship as it begins its journey to Moria.
3. Takes itself a lot more seriously than WoW, being based on the LOTR franchise;
4. Very little PVP (just one or two battlegrounds where you can either play your main character, or one of a few options to play a PVP-only monster character to fight against other people's main characters);
5. Less end-game content
6. More realistic graphics, and some very spectacular, but natural looking environments.
7. Crafting is slightly more involved, but overall very similar
8. Action wise, it is slower paced, a bit more realistic (e.g. no firing a bow and arrow while jumping through the air and spinning around toward your enemy)
9. Better overall community and a good range of RP activities, from light RP to heavy. Many people just like to gather, play music (there's a player-generated music system in the game) and chat.
Overall, the production quality is top notch. It's a good casual game experience, but has a much slower, relaxed (some people consider it boring) pace than some other MMOs out there.
I just posted a re-review in the forum, but your observation is totally in-line with mine.
There Is Always Hope!
Sorry bud, but I think you're way off base.
I don't think I am.
The trait system has 20 slots. WoW's talent system has 70. The traits you can get in LoTRO pretty much do nothing but buff your stats or abilities a little bit. WoW talents do this, but also grant entirely new abilities. And let's not even talk about the fact that in LoTRO, you have to grind your face off to get access to most of the traits you might want to equip.
You are missing the fact that LOTRO Trait system is more flexible. Insted of three options, you can mix and match any traits you want (This included Virtues). Any of them. Trait sets are also an option, and give you another one based on the set. LOTRO also grants new abilities through traits, in fact most of the later game abilities are from traits, not trainers. As far as grind, most skill or class traits are granted because of your play style, use one ability over the others? You will gain an improved version. It is like to a use based system.
Grind is a player induced condition, and is not only found in one MMO or another. However simply playing will open most of them to you, with some requiring a little bit of effort on your part.
Every class I'm aware of has 2 basic roles and can pretty much be aligned very closely with one or two WoW classes. The fact that they've done a little reshuffling of abilities from one archetype to another doesn't make it revolutionary:
Did i say revolutionary? I said they were all hybrids, leaving you able to make some varied group combination and almost all the classes have at least three rolls they can choose from. Leading to a much more flexible system that the rigid: Tank, nuke, heal.I won't comment on the new classes, because I don't know enough about them.
Equipment customization is a wash, I would say, because LoTRO has legendary weapon options, but WoW has gems and enchants and a wider variety of item types (dps, pvp, tanking) which pretty much accomplish the same thing if not more (except you can apply them to every item instead of just 2 or 3).
You may not care. But thats you. You can cusomize your apperiance, your traits, your skills,the color of your equipment, and with the large amount of consumables such as bowchants or shield spikes you can customize even your basic weapons. Legendary items are simply not comparable to gems and enchantments. I suspect you haven't even seen a legendary item. They also have 9 tiers of gems and item slots. Put all the systems together, and you have a huge range of persionalization.
And finally 95% of LoTRO's quests are kill x, get y types with no interesting mechanics whatsoever, and they all pretty much repeat each time you progress to a new area. Yes, they do follow an interesting storyline, as I mentioned in my first post. But they also lack some of the fun factor and variety you get with some WoW quests (like jousting combat, riding a torpedo into an enemy ship, piloting a dragon, or riding one through the sky as you try to kill it.) That's not to say that LoTRO should have you flying around on dragons, but I'm almost a third of the way through LoTRO, and have only seen one or two quests that incorporate an interesting mechanics. The fight against the creature in the black pool is all that comes to mind.
I disagree, LOTRO has some of the best scripted encounters anywhere, backed by some of the best writing in the MMO space. There is a ton of variety in ever level band for quests, its just the simplist to do for players are the kill quests, that my be why that's all you seem to see, having only scratched the surface of the game. Its not as if Wow is without them. As just FYI a new quest type was just added, they continue to add more content and new systems more frequently than any other dev house.Your comparing systems only coming to Wow in the last expansion to a two year old game that has only had one about 8 months ago. Stay tuned for the expansion coming at the end of the year.
The purpose of my comparison wasn't to say one was better than the other. It was only to generally inform people who may be familiar with WoW of the major similarities and differences. I wasn't intending to get into a debate about nitty gritty details of one system compared to another. The things you point out, in my opinion, are not major issues. Suffice it to say that they are very similar in practically every major gameplay mechanic, each having systems that correspond to each other on an almost 1 to 1 basis, albeit with some appreciable variations in specific implementation details. The major differences are in the appearance, mood, and pace of the games.
As to specifics:
You may be right that the Trait system in LoTRO allows for more overall combinations, but you exhaggerate the simplicity of the Talent system in WoW ("only 3 choices") and ignore the fact that the overall affect of different Talent builds in WoW is more dramatic. And you also cannot deny that access to a significant subset of the Traits in LoTRO (specifically Virtues) requires some serious grinding on kill deeds.
I won't comment on the class differences, because I don't really think we're disagreeing there. However, what you say about LoTRO classes (3 different roles each) is not entirely true (e.g. a Guardian cannot heal), and to the extent it is true, it is also more or less true of most WoW classes (e.g. pallies and druids can dps, heal or tank)
Finally, you are right about cosmetic customization. LoTRO is far superior to WoW on this point, and yes, I do think this is important, to me at least.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
I've played LoTRO and WoW to max levels. Honestly, I'd say that the customization of your character's abilities is about on par in both games. WoW isn't as flexible about mixing and matching different traits (for example you can't slot something really high in the holy tree and really high in the shadow tree if you are a priest), however in practice most players in LoTRO tend to go for one of several similar builds for any given class so the net effect is similar (particularly now that line bonuses have been added) WoW has systems that LoTRO lacks, notably inscription and enchanting, however I would say that the Legendary Item system more than makes up for it.
In terms of appearance customization, LoTRO obviously wins hands down. However it's not because LoTRO is especially awesome, it's more because WoW sucks. WoW is the only mainstream MMO I know of that lacks both a dye system and an appearance slot system. Almost all the major western MMOs at least have one or the other.
I have also noticed a tendency for folks that think the customization in LoTRO sucks to not know what the hell they are talking about. Common myths include 1. Stats on items don't affect your character's performance much, 2. Racial traits don't make any difference, and 3. You can't gain or lose abilities by swapping out traits. All somewhat true before level 15 or 20 (low level racial traits consist of minor bonuses, you can't get any of your core stats over 100, and you can't yet unlock legendary traits), but utterly false at higher levels.
if you were comparing LoTRO to a game that does sport exceptional customization (for example City of Heroes or pre NGE SWG), you would have a good point. LoTRO is nowhere near as flexible as some MMOs. But saying that WoW has way better character customization than LoTRO is just expressing ignorance.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Damn you "played it for years" and you think it's an average game? I think you said in a typoish way that they did a horrible job creating the world as well.... It's jsut weird when people bash a game they played for a long time.
Anyways, Lotro *is* one of the best MMOs out there, according to the user reviews on this site. Not everyone is going to like it but from the reviews it is one of the best. It's ok not to like a game, and you are free to review it and voice your opinion.
My post earlier was mostly detailed comparisons of differences between WoW and Lotro because I find it interesting. I know quite a bit about Lotro including most classes. I've only been playing WoW about a month so I'm still learning.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Not even. Im just posting info from my experiences, and comparing them other other games. There really isn't a MMO I haven't played. This one just happens to be one i am currently playing.
I'm not arguing anything. Its others that seem to "One up" forum war with me. You guys can think what you want. You asked for my opinion, i gave it, then you decided it was wrong because "your game" is better, and you dont understand what I am saying, and added attacks to my person to boot.
Enjoy.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Damn you "played it for years" and you think it's an average game? I think you said in a typoish way that they did a horrible job creating the world as well.... It's jsut weird when people bash a game they played for a long time.
Anyways, Lotro *is* one of the best MMOs out there, according to the user reviews on this site. Not everyone is going to like it but from the reviews it is one of the best. It's ok not to like a game, and you are free to review it and voice your opinion.
My post earlier was mostly detailed comparisons of differences between WoW and Lotro because I find it interesting. I know quite a bit about Lotro including most classes. I've only been playing WoW about a month so I'm still learning.
If you read above you can see that the reason I played for so long was because of a great kinship...I was also a raiding officer so I was sort of "stranded" for lack of a better word. LOTRO probly has one the best communities out there, so it wasnt hard to get sucked into that. I'm not bashing LOTRO either. Its a great game but lets not say it doesnt have any flaws...Turbine running it is one of the big ones LOL.
It is not "one of the best MMOs out there". Its all a matter of opition. A high rating on this site (mmorpg.com) means nothing to most people. Guild Wars should be much higher on the list imo. Different strokes for different folks sir.
For me LOTRO was an average MMO with some major flaws that ruined it for me. Moria was horrible compared to pre-moria middle earth....I honestly do wish LOTRO the best but I personally wont support a company that created an xpack such as Moria. They lost all my respect unfortionately.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying people won't like LOTRO. But to say it deserves the spot it has on this site. And to say its "one of the best MMOs out" is a joke. I know people that played LOTRO and quite 1 week in...its all a matter of opition. For example, a gamer that enjoys PvP of any kind would find LOTRO to be probly one of the worst MMOs out. I mean lets face the facts, if you enjoy anything other then pve/rp LOTRO is pretty much not for you.
Cheers.
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
"For me LOTRO was an average MMO with some major flaws that ruined it for me. Moria was horrible compared to pre-moria middle earth....I honestly do wish LOTRO the best but I personally wont support a company that created an xpack such as Moria. They lost all my respect unfortionately."
SoA was great. MoM was a letdown. Turbine is making a new MMO and the updates on LOTRO this year were dismal at best (as compared to last year). Personally I will be shifting my attention to AION soon as I am just bored with LOTRO. It's a great game if you have never played it, but there just is not enough there now to hold my interest. Maybe just maybe they will relase an expac that will entice me back.....we shall see.
I can understand the Moria disappointment... Besides the amazing spaces, it is very dark. THe actually questing had way too much soloing for me. There are no "scary" areas where you have to bring friends... It's all solo... But I think they've taken a step forward in end-game, in terms of instance quality, and the amount of stuff to do. Legendary items love em or hate em it's something new to do... Getting a great legendary can be a struggle but very satisfying when you end up with a good one. I like legendaries but I sort of miss having a bag full of weapons collected in SoA. So I'd say the game took a few steps forward and a few steps back when compared to SoA.