Reading through a lot of these posts and it sounds like what WAS in Vanguard at the early stages. No quest floaties, rumor system really good stuff.
Could not tell you why that all went away. Have no clue other than happened right about the time SOE got involved in the background and then it was anounced right after these HUGE SWEEPING changes came through the game.
Personally, I would like to see something OUTSIDE of the sword and Board play. There were some great PnP games in the past that would really work well in an MMO. Traveller, Space Opera, hell even Paranoia would be a good game to see in an MMO community. Paranoia would be so freaking funny that people would laugh until they dropped. Who cares that your character dies alot, you would laugh so hard that you would not care!
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Also, on top of regular quests, PLEASE be sure to add in the good ole epic quests for class specific items again. Those were tedious, but fun and rewarding at the same time. Random world events would be awesome as well. Dedicate a team to just that if possible.
I remember being a young woodelf ranger just returning to Kelethin after a quest...I was at the bottom of the elevator leading to the city when suddenly someone yelled "ORC RAID!". I thought they were being goofy, but I turn around to see dozens of orcs cresting the hill! I jumped on the elevator , got to the top, and started launching arrows from the city while others fought them off. That was one of many moments from EQ I will remember forever. It was GREAT! Why? Because it wasn't scripted.
Those kinds of things on (If even only) a monthly basis would be spectacular.
Add in the boats to travel again. Except this time, make them much bigger and add things to do on the ships while in transit. This way, not only will it make the world feel big, but it will still give players things to do. Such as...
- The puzzle game like EQ had while traveling.
- Bars on the ship where players can get drunk, possibly bar fight NPC's.
- Possible sea creature attacks at sea.
- Randomly generated storms at sea.
- Pirate attacks - To add to this, make the ships defensive cannons accessable to players to help defend. (Same for sea creature attacks)
- Merchants on the ships. Maybe even player merchant slots for them to sell their wares.
Whatever they do, I hope it's a powergamers' / hardcore's / sandboxer's paradise. Hopefully it would draw in the majority of that crowd. Not only am I sick and tired of their incessant whining about today's "dumbed down" and "carebear" MMOs, but I'm tired of them ruining casual MMOs with their constant demand for exclusive hardcore content and special rewards.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Reading through a lot of these posts and it sounds like what WAS in Vanguard at the early stages. No quest floaties, rumor system really good stuff. Could not tell you why that all went away. Have no clue other than happened right about the time SOE got involved in the background and then it was anounced right after these HUGE SWEEPING changes came through the game.
Oh, I have a good idea of why. (I was in Vanguard Beta)..........subscriptions and money.
Most companies now just look at WoW (Which isn't good) and see a cash cow and try to duplicate it. I don't think most of them look at what impact it has on the players or the game itself. They just see what worked for one company and try to do it as well....and usually fail miserably.
WoW is NOT the mold everyone should be striving for. It's just a large scale console game IMO. WAY TOO EASY and linear, outrageously overpowered gear, helen keller accessible quests (! and dots to show you where to go. where is the fun in that? where is the adventure?), etc. The list could go on.
Everyone needs to stop trying to copy Blizzard or BE Blizzard and use independent thought. I'm not saying some features can't be mimicked to a degree if they are good ones, but not everything like the GPS quests, etc. The easier a game is, the more idiots it pulls in. Just look at WoW.....and the community can be a games downfall just as much as it's content and game mechanics.
Everyone needs to stop trying to copy Blizzard or BE Blizzard and use independent thought. I'm not saying some features can't be mimicked to a degree if they are good ones, but not everything like the GPS quests, etc. The easier a game is, the more idiots it pulls in.
Totally agree.
Seems to me that most recent mmos are all of the same ilk. Call it what you like, the fact is they don't seem to have the level of depth, involved mechanics or content that the 'original' games like EQ1 had.
I can totally understand companies wanting to 'jump on the bandwagon' and try to steal a portion of wow's player-base by making games that would be familiar to wow players. Problem is, there's so many companies doing that that the player-base just moves onto the next game after a month or two and subs tend to drop away..
I still hold out hope that one day a company will dare to make a game that designed to cater to a smaller, more specific market (- 90% of the people posting in this thread seem to want the same thing.) Establish a loyal fanbase and I'd think there was a chance of keeping more long-term subscriptions.
Everyone needs to stop trying to copy Blizzard or BE Blizzard and use independent thought. I'm not saying some features can't be mimicked to a degree if they are good ones, but not everything like the GPS quests, etc. The easier a game is, the more idiots it pulls in.
I still hold out hope that one day a company will dare to make a game that designed to cater to a smaller, more specific market (- 90% of the people posting in this thread seem to want the same thing.) Establish a loyal fanbase and I'd think there was a chance of keeping more long-term subscriptions.
Just my opinion.
Its all about the money, small fan base doesn't pay the bills.
Everyone needs to stop trying to copy Blizzard or BE Blizzard and use independent thought. I'm not saying some features can't be mimicked to a degree if they are good ones, but not everything like the GPS quests, etc. The easier a game is, the more idiots it pulls in.
I still hold out hope that one day a company will dare to make a game that designed to cater to a smaller, more specific market (- 90% of the people posting in this thread seem to want the same thing.) Establish a loyal fanbase and I'd think there was a chance of keeping more long-term subscriptions.
Just my opinion.
Its all about the money, small fan base doesn't pay the bills.
Then explain to me how CCP (Crowd Control Productions) manages it with EVE Online.
They have maybe a bit over 250,000 subscriber's. The game has been on the market for 6 + years, AND it has a VERY steep learning curve, yet, they keep churning out expansions material, improving the game in other ways, and receiving more subscriber's. Oh, and because of that learning curve and the long period of time it takes to become a decent player in the community, they have one of the tamest communities I have experienced, full of helpful people like old EQ.
So as far as I'm concerned, your comment is null and void of any legitimacy. I'm not ragging on you, just stating a fact through observation and proof that mirroring everyone else isn't the only route to success. Success can come on many levels other than just "jumping on the bandwagon".
goat i think eq1 and eq2 would be good base to do an expension a la cataclysm the problem with this game is they would have to close server and probably relaunch game.
and thats the easy part
the technology soe used in the past for eq1 and eq2 probably cant evolve as wow evolve i bet if soe could have done it i bet they would have done it 5 years ago when wow debuted.
one day we ll probably see eq 1 and 2 remade one day but it wont be sony ,unless they re too lazy to upgrade ,it could be say the techno is there but they have to remoove a software they worked very hard to put there.
it like my old boss it costed him 50k to hire a programer for his computer etc long ago
he knew he could have a good software that could do 1000 time better what he was doing by grunting but he told me
he wasnt going to trash 50 k that easylly even tho he works 30 hour a week more he still use that program today
so here it might be this case if it costed x $ for sony and they still are paying for it even thot they could upgrade with the push of a button they might not be willing to part with that old software that costed an arm and a leg to put in there
goat i think eq1 and eq2 would be good base to do an expension a la cataclysm the problem with this game is they would have to close server and probably relaunch game. and thats the easy part the technology soe used in the past for eq1 and eq2 probably cant evolve as wow evolve i bet if soe could have done it i bet they would have done it 5 years ago when wow debuted. one day we ll probably see eq 1 and 2 remade one day but it wont be sony ,unless they re too lazy to upgrade ,it could be say the techno is there but they have to remoove a software they worked very hard to put there. it like my old boss it costed him 50k to hire a programer for his computer etc long ago he knew he could have a good software that could do 1000 time better what he was doing by grunting but he told me he wasnt going to trash 50 k that easylly even tho he works 30 hour a week more he still use that program today so here it might be this case if it costed x $ for sony and they still are paying for it even thot they could upgrade with the push of a button they might not be willing to part with that old software that costed an arm and a leg to put in there
I'm sorry, but you lost me. I think we are on two different subjects unless I missed something.
Are they planning to "update" existing game software (EQ1 and/or 2)? Or doing an totally new game based on Norrath?
Either way, they don't have to follow the trend and make another cookie-cutter game to be successful. Actually, making something engaging and different would be more successful than anything else because it would attract tons of people looking for "something different". Go to any game forum "newcomer's" area and you can find tons of people saying that they were tired of "X" game because it was the same old crap, etc.
Also, who is to say Sony hasn't had a team working on this game for months/years already? Or if my first question is the case, working on just that? Besides, I think Sony can overlook 50k if they wanted pretty easily. It's Sony...as multi-billion dollar company. Plus it's outdated technology that more than likely cant be upgraded. Even people that build their own rigs (like me), that don't have tons of cash know that you can only upgrade some of your rig so far before you KNOW you have to trash a particular part for new technology...and you do it, not because you want to, but because you HAVE to to continue on.
Originally posted by Archtype Best thing to do is not make it like all the other MMo's out there today where any crack riddled 12 yr old can make top level in 3 weeks.
Make it like OLD EQ prior to Planes of Power where you had to achieve things with effort. Where you had to group. Where gaining a level felt like an achievement. Where traveling took longer than 10 seconds.
Want instant gratification and an MMO on easy mode. Play WOW with the rest of the kiddies and brain dead people. Want a real MMO like they used to make that drew you into it and grabbed you... than go old school.
EQ's Velious expansion to me was top notch. I loved everything about the epicness of it. The way guilds raced to epic mobs. No ignorant kiddie instancing. COMPETITION WAS THE FLAVOR. The drama it caused. The grinding.. oh yes.... I have killed MILLIONS of dwarfs and furbies out in the wastes.. and loved every bit of it.
I haven't found a good MMO since I left EQ and DAOC ( pre ToA ) and have longed for another like those. Vanguard had potential but alas.................. I've been lookin for roughly 6 years now. Played EVE for over 4 years but it never filled that void.
As much as some will disagree with this... hire Brad Mquaid to make the next EQ I'd buy a lifetime subscription at $300 a pop right now all day long. To me... he makes great MMo's. Although Vanguard got abit screwed up and had endless money issues.. the right concept for it was in place.
Not all of us want want easy mode kiddie MMO's like WOW and Aion. Some of us want real depth .
Its hard to say what the new EQ would be and if it will be an EQ extension or something re-imagined. We 'may' be getting back to Old School game play. I believe people are getting dulled by the instant gratification. Would we see another Risk vs Reward style game like the original EQ, I'm not so sure.
As it stands now there is such a small demographic of players that would buy into an 'earn as you learn' game as EQ was. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Originally posted by Zsavooz after reading that article, I came away thinking it could be console based which would turn me off completely. Otherwise, I'd like to see another EQ, but cannot imagine what to expect let a lone when.
Ugh, lets hope not.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Originally posted by Homergdog SoE needs to go away. I loved EQ1 and it seemed when Varent was bought out and SoE took full control it all went downhill from there. It slowly has become the worse MMO company out there. Its poor communication with the community and absolutely no morals or business ethics, makes any MMO that falls under their title an instant failure. I don't understand how at one point they were one of the biggest names and now everything they touch turns to crap. Fire SMED and hire someone with some business sense and maybe the "next" EQ won't suck. EQ2 at launch was horrible... now its a playable game, but still doesn't grab me... feels too much like a WoW ripoff now. EQ doesn't have much of a population to play it anymore, and don't even get me started on the rest of the MMO SoE lineup. So, what should the "next" everquest be? Its simple... something innovative, and like the original everquest. Don't go rip off all the ideas of modern MMOs and put it in the game. Be bold and be diffrent when designing it. Hopefully this is what we will get, but i from the language they used, I have a feeling this will be a lot like another wow clone.
It would be interesting to get some background on how SOE conducts business. Its easy for us to get frustrated, irritated and totally boggled by the decisions that are made. I'd love to see an open forum with SOE Dev's and allow players to ask questions, provided it doesn't violate any antitrust laws or intellectual property rights. There has to be a reason why they make the decisions they do despite the fact that we may totally disagree with it.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
I have said it before, but this new 'EQ' will very likely have more in common with games like CO in terms of gameplay... ez mode solo quest grinding with 'optional' grouping.
All paid for with a Pay to Achieve Item Mall.
Am I gonna hang around to watch what is left of the legend of EQ get turned into nothing more then a sterile virtual market space that exists purely to entice the stupidly gulliable into buying pretend magic swords for their pretend paper dolls with their real pocket money?
No. Screw that.
I expect nothing more of SOE then a exploitative cash in on the brand name of a once great game. They have no respect for games and only derison for anything that dosent make them the top dollar. The way this company conducts it's business actually disgusts me tbh.
"Am I gonna hang around to watch what is left of the legend of EQ get turned into nothing more then a sterile virtual market space that exists purely to entice the stupidly gulliable into buying pretend magic swords for their pretend paper dolls with their real pocket money?"
How is that ANY different than paying a monthly subscription, also, when it is totally optional when it comes to using a cash shop who gives a flying f***...
The entire, "I HAVE to use the cash shop or my character will not be able to compete...waaah..." rant is tired.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Originally posted by ohreally OH OH let me make a list of things that MUST be in teh new EQ...
1) Along with a $35 a month subscrition, please.... Only allow 1 character...period... Redesign the entire world so no one recognizes anything, even though just a few hundred years have passed no in game support poor customer service LOTS of plat sellers farming and spawn camping and above all else, make sure that players have access to a virtual "mall" where they can purchase in game items to make their character more powerful than it would be if they just played teh game and EARNED their items...
PLEASE INCLUDE ALL OF THIS....as it wouldn't be EQ or EQ2 without them...
And most importantly you don't want to be bitter about it.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
"Am I gonna hang around to watch what is left of the legend of EQ get turned into nothing more then a sterile virtual market space that exists purely to entice the stupidly gulliable into buying pretend magic swords for their pretend paper dolls with their real pocket money?"
How is that ANY different than paying a monthly subscription, also, when it is totally optional when it comes to using a cash shop who gives a flying f***... The entire, "I HAVE to use the cash shop or my character will not be able to compete...waaah..." rant is tired.
Friend, you surely understand the difference between PLAYING to achieve and PAYING to achieve?
And to answer your thoughtfully posed question, people who want real games over retarded virtual market spaces probably give a flying ****.
For a more "In-depth" post on some things that I, as well as some others I'm sure, would love to see AND not see in Everquest Next.
Things to see:
1. Great storyline. I'd imagine this shouldn't be an issue considering the vast amount of lore found in EQ and EQ2 already to play off of. So no more on this.
2. Quests with a deeper purpose. It would be great to see quests with deep story lines and real purpose behind what you are doing. Not just some quickly fabricated garbage just to give you something to do. Also, quests that may lead to other discoveries and quests. Maybe multiple replies possible, leading to different quest routes or rewards even. Maybe even reputation hits depending on your actions.
Example: Visiting a town, you see a woman with her head in her hands crying. You approach and start a conversation to find out what is wrong. She mumbles through her tears that her husband and son went on a hunting trip in the nearby woods of kithicor earlier in the day, but had not returned and she fears the worse. Here you are given 3 choices for a response...1. "I'm sorry for your troubles, best of luck." Leave her to her woes. 2. "I can try and locate them for you, what are their names?" 3. "I can locate them for you, for a price." Woman's responses...1. Sobs louder as you walk away. Reputation hit. 2. "Thank you! I promise you a great reward upon their safe return!" 3. "Thanks you!", but only offers a small sack of platinum for your troubles.
However, you could add in twists such as you get to the woods and only find the boy hiding in an old hollowed out oak tree shaking in terror. The boy tells you his father was dragged off into the thickets by undead as dusk hit. Here you can simply take the boy back to his mother and be done with it, or take him back and return to see about the fathers fate as well. From here you can even branch it off again, and again.
3. Deep crafting system with purpose. Make items WORTH taking the time to gather materials for and crafting them. Make them WORTH people buying in the bazaar (If you add that feature again, which I know I personally would LOVE to see). Nothing more annoying than crafting fodder just to get to the good items. Make everything from the get-go worth it. Thus, making gathering materials to use, or to sell worth it. Make crafted items worth more, and better than world dropped items. (Except Epics of course).
FYI: Look at Vanguard's crafting system for an insight on how to make crafting engaging and not monotonous. (With some tweaks of course).
4. A BIG and open world. Most MMO's these days seem very restricted and linear in design (I.E. Age of Conan). Although I know it is somewhat tedious, a world with care put into it, where you can give directions based on landmarks to new players would be fantastic (I.E. Age of Conan). Not simple "copy and paste" landscapes. (I.E. Original EQ and/or World of Warcraft).
5. Intelligent AI. Nothing worse than seeing NPC's standing around waiting for you to pick a fight and do them in. Give them paths! Multiple paths in most cases to make them less predictable. Make LoS for them not only when casting or using ranged attacks, but when they see comrades engaged as well (I.E. Age of Conan...to a point. STILL broken to a degree there.) And having them drop items that fit the mob would be a nice bonus. Never understood how a bear drops a 2-handed sword, unless he ate it and painfully passed it upon death.
On the bear subject, here is where a quest could come into play when you find an arm holding a map on it. (eaten)
6. Gear repair needs. Make gear wear out over time, eventually needing completely replaced. This helps as far as crafted gear is concerned. Also, makes for a stronger in-game economy. This could even be a part of a blacksmiths job. So not only making gear brings in funds, but repairs as well.
7. Boat travel back again! BIG ships and long rides. But add stuff on the ships to do while in transit. Like the game you could open in EQ to play while traveling, bars where characters can mingle and get drunk...maybe even bar fight (ala AoC). Have pirate attacks at sea players can participate in to attempt to repel them, even man the ships cannons. Sea creature attacks at random.
8. A partial play off of #7. Random world events once in awhile. It would be SWEET if you could dedicate a team to just this function. Random city raids by NPC bandits, etc. Packs of wolves attacking small villages, attacks at sea, etc. You did it in EQ (Not sure on EQ2, didn't play it), DO IT AGAIN! It was a great change once in awhile to see!
9. Solid naming policy. I HATE seeing names like "1337DuD3" or "Legolasss" Inevitable, but you CAN minimize it. But they aren't my main issue..it's the names like "dfjghjwer" (A.k.a. Gold farmer). You KNOW they are farmers, so don't allow them to even be entered in the first place. I realize a lot of companies allow it and SAY they are combating it, which is true...to a degree. But I'm sure a few hundred accounts are banned to make it "look" like something is being done...but we all know that each time they get banned, they buy another, giving you more pocket money. So probably wasting time with this one.
Thing NOT to see:
1. Two million "Kill X amount of X creature", "Collect X amount of X item" quests. Some here and there is ok, but not so many it becomes a grind, and seethes of obvious laziness and lack of creativity.
2. Crafting system with no real purpose. Low level crafting fodder.
5. Instances and instant transportation around every corner (Planes of Power anyone?)
6. World chat. PLEASE no! Zones chats are cool (If you go with zones instead of one seamless world.). World chat KILLS immersion. I'm sure some will disagree with this.
7. Unwanted group classes. PLEASE be sure to take lots of time to make sure each class can work effectively with another. No one likes spamming for a group for somewhere for hours. Inevitable...but thought I'd throw this out there.
8. Gold farmers/sellers. I know there isn't a fool proof way to do this, but I know some people will laugh and wish it the same as I do.
9. 1337 names. Guild names.
You have been crited for 10,000 wall of text damage! You have died. Now loading....
Everyone needs to stop trying to copy Blizzard or BE Blizzard and use independent thought. I'm not saying some features can't be mimicked to a degree if they are good ones, but not everything like the GPS quests, etc. The easier a game is, the more idiots it pulls in.
I still hold out hope that one day a company will dare to make a game that designed to cater to a smaller, more specific market (- 90% of the people posting in this thread seem to want the same thing.) Establish a loyal fanbase and I'd think there was a chance of keeping more long-term subscriptions.
Just my opinion.
Its all about the money, small fan base doesn't pay the bills.
The Dev houses have really got you fooled eh? :P
Theres is a world apart between making a profit, which is well and good, and profiteering, which isnt.
I think much of what made the original eq great still works. Huge world, varied races, varied classes. Remove the autoattacks. Every attack should be a keypush. And since there are no autoattacks make sure you have a decent amount of regular attacks, but dont overdo it like what happened in eq2. Keep the macros. Lotro lost a lot by removing the ability to macro. Crit chains like in vanguard are a good thing. I have mixed feelings about multiplayer combos like in lotro. I think it is a good concept but in lotro it never had a really good feel to it. Maybe they just didnt get it right.
"Am I gonna hang around to watch what is left of the legend of EQ get turned into nothing more then a sterile virtual market space that exists purely to entice the stupidly gulliable into buying pretend magic swords for their pretend paper dolls with their real pocket money?"
How is that ANY different than paying a monthly subscription, also, when it is totally optional when it comes to using a cash shop who gives a flying f***... The entire, "I HAVE to use the cash shop or my character will not be able to compete...waaah..." rant is tired.
Friend, you surely understand the difference between PLAYING to achieve and PAYING to achieve?
And to answer your thoughtfully posed question, people who want real games over retarded virtual market spaces probably give a flying ****.
Read it again, you can do it...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I think a new EQ should keep most of the world from the first 2 games. The system needs to be very different howeverbecause we already played the old system for more than 10 years, it is time for something new.
Here is some of the things I would have done if I was the lead designer:
Cut out hitpoints. Or basicly put them on armours and or magic spells. To get hit by a weapon is always bad and it should be consequences for that. To be hit on the armour however is cool and it takes a lot of damage to go through a plate armour. Hitpoints is stupid since even naked characters can take a lot of punishment, hp is just an old rest from the D&D game.
Less attacks and a more realistic combat system. Funcom nailed half of this thing with the idea that you hit whatever your sword hits. Make it so that depending how strong you are the oponent often stop the swords when you hit them but a strong oponent can hit several people if they are standing right and some better control over the swings and combat would be a lot more fun. We don't need 50 different attacks for combat to be fun.
Better crafting. Making an item should be more like creating a character. Depending on your skills and the materials you have you should be able to design the item both with abilities and looks.
Less mining. Mining is the dumbest MMO thing ever. Heard of any hero who ever mined the metal for his own sword? Well some dude might have but in most cases the metal comes from a large mine. Have the heroes to do quests like caravan guarding or something instead, it makes a lot more sence. To collect rare herbs is ok but the common herbs make no sense either. Players should only have to collect rare things that are hard to get, if any peasant can grow it they will and will sell it rather cheap.
Guildhall+. The guildhalls of EQ2 is a nice idea but a guild should be able to build in from scratch like in Stronghold and dungeon keeper.
Non linear quests. All quests have to be completed in the same way but there are more ways than one to do something. You don't have to kill a bad guy to get something he have you could by it, threaten him, steal it or even make a fake copy to give to the questgiver. Biowares old Neverwinter nights showed the way to how you handle this kind of things.
No friggin go and kill 20 monster quests. I can grind without quests. Quests should be interesting like the HQ quests in EQ2, long things with good reward. Being a postman or rodent hunter is not anything for heroes, I rather have fewer and better written quests.
More character options, less item orientation. Loot is important in MMOs but it is a bit too important in EQ 1 & 2. To spend some more time on character development instead and make the item less powerful is a good idea. In real life items are good but not nearly as good as skills are. Make the character 75% and the items 25% or so. You can even have some character development things that are dropped by bosses, like when you capture skills in Guildwars.
Less levels. Really, 20 or 25 levels are enough and stop adding more levels in every expansion. More achivement is fine but the adding of more levels just kills of the older part of the game. 20 or 100 levels is really not any different as long as it takes the same time to reach the top. Too many levels will just hurt the gameplay. Or get rid of them totaly, look on pen and paper games like Runequest. More levels doesn't make the game more fun.
A formula for how good items can be. Have one for regular, treasured, legendary, fabled and for each tier of the raid items. And have cost on all the abilities. This will ensure that you don't make the items useless from the old part when you release an expansion and it will make the game live longer without killing of certain areas. It will also ensure that items are on the same power and that some doesn't totaly stink.
Smarter monsters. Gray monster shouldn't just ignore the player, they should run away from him and if attacked try to get away. You shouldn't be able to pull one of the gurds without the other one notice that you are killing his buddy within line of sight. Bosses should try to flee unless the are cornered when they have no chanse to win. The mobs have been as stupid in any game since EQ and it is time it should be changed.
As for minigames it could be fun to have some like poker at the tavern (or guildhouse), throwing knifes and so on. Thats fun but not for crafting since you will do the same thing a lot and it stops being fun rather soon.
I really don't care if I have to play the game on my PS3 even if Pc is my first choice for MMOs. What is important i that the game will have to differ from the first Eq but still be fun. For all I care they could keep Norrath exactly the same as in EQ 1 or 2 but the system needs to change a bit too make it more fun. It is ok to keep the highest places for NPCs but players should be able to affect the world around them also, maybe entering the freeport council. The combat needs to be more fun and interactive this time, less pushing the same buttons in a specific order and more about doing things at the right moment.
I actually think EQ3 could be a bigger game then Wow but then SOE will have to think out of the box and do what they did with EQ: Create something new and fun to play. If they on the other hand just make the graphics better with the same old gameplay the game will never be bigger than 200K subs.
Comments
Reading through a lot of these posts and it sounds like what WAS in Vanguard at the early stages. No quest floaties, rumor system really good stuff.
Could not tell you why that all went away. Have no clue other than happened right about the time SOE got involved in the background and then it was anounced right after these HUGE SWEEPING changes came through the game.
Personally, I would like to see something OUTSIDE of the sword and Board play. There were some great PnP games in the past that would really work well in an MMO. Traveller, Space Opera, hell even Paranoia would be a good game to see in an MMO community. Paranoia would be so freaking funny that people would laugh until they dropped. Who cares that your character dies alot, you would laugh so hard that you would not care!
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Also, on top of regular quests, PLEASE be sure to add in the good ole epic quests for class specific items again. Those were tedious, but fun and rewarding at the same time. Random world events would be awesome as well. Dedicate a team to just that if possible.
I remember being a young woodelf ranger just returning to Kelethin after a quest...I was at the bottom of the elevator leading to the city when suddenly someone yelled "ORC RAID!". I thought they were being goofy, but I turn around to see dozens of orcs cresting the hill! I jumped on the elevator , got to the top, and started launching arrows from the city while others fought them off. That was one of many moments from EQ I will remember forever. It was GREAT! Why? Because it wasn't scripted.
Those kinds of things on (If even only) a monthly basis would be spectacular.
Add in the boats to travel again. Except this time, make them much bigger and add things to do on the ships while in transit. This way, not only will it make the world feel big, but it will still give players things to do. Such as...
- The puzzle game like EQ had while traveling.
- Bars on the ship where players can get drunk, possibly bar fight NPC's.
- Possible sea creature attacks at sea.
- Randomly generated storms at sea.
- Pirate attacks - To add to this, make the ships defensive cannons accessable to players to help defend. (Same for sea creature attacks)
- Merchants on the ships. Maybe even player merchant slots for them to sell their wares.
- Fishing off the sides of the ship.
I'm sure others can add to this.
Whatever they do, I hope it's a powergamers' / hardcore's / sandboxer's paradise. Hopefully it would draw in the majority of that crowd. Not only am I sick and tired of their incessant whining about today's "dumbed down" and "carebear" MMOs, but I'm tired of them ruining casual MMOs with their constant demand for exclusive hardcore content and special rewards.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Oh, I have a good idea of why. (I was in Vanguard Beta)..........subscriptions and money.
Most companies now just look at WoW (Which isn't good) and see a cash cow and try to duplicate it. I don't think most of them look at what impact it has on the players or the game itself. They just see what worked for one company and try to do it as well....and usually fail miserably.
WoW is NOT the mold everyone should be striving for. It's just a large scale console game IMO. WAY TOO EASY and linear, outrageously overpowered gear, helen keller accessible quests (! and dots to show you where to go. where is the fun in that? where is the adventure?), etc. The list could go on.
Everyone needs to stop trying to copy Blizzard or BE Blizzard and use independent thought. I'm not saying some features can't be mimicked to a degree if they are good ones, but not everything like the GPS quests, etc. The easier a game is, the more idiots it pulls in. Just look at WoW.....and the community can be a games downfall just as much as it's content and game mechanics.
Totally agree.
Seems to me that most recent mmos are all of the same ilk. Call it what you like, the fact is they don't seem to have the level of depth, involved mechanics or content that the 'original' games like EQ1 had.
I can totally understand companies wanting to 'jump on the bandwagon' and try to steal a portion of wow's player-base by making games that would be familiar to wow players. Problem is, there's so many companies doing that that the player-base just moves onto the next game after a month or two and subs tend to drop away..
I still hold out hope that one day a company will dare to make a game that designed to cater to a smaller, more specific market (- 90% of the people posting in this thread seem to want the same thing.) Establish a loyal fanbase and I'd think there was a chance of keeping more long-term subscriptions.
Just my opinion.
I still hold out hope that one day a company will dare to make a game that designed to cater to a smaller, more specific market (- 90% of the people posting in this thread seem to want the same thing.) Establish a loyal fanbase and I'd think there was a chance of keeping more long-term subscriptions.
Just my opinion.
Its all about the money, small fan base doesn't pay the bills.
I still hold out hope that one day a company will dare to make a game that designed to cater to a smaller, more specific market (- 90% of the people posting in this thread seem to want the same thing.) Establish a loyal fanbase and I'd think there was a chance of keeping more long-term subscriptions.
Just my opinion.
Its all about the money, small fan base doesn't pay the bills.
Then explain to me how CCP (Crowd Control Productions) manages it with EVE Online.
They have maybe a bit over 250,000 subscriber's. The game has been on the market for 6 + years, AND it has a VERY steep learning curve, yet, they keep churning out expansions material, improving the game in other ways, and receiving more subscriber's. Oh, and because of that learning curve and the long period of time it takes to become a decent player in the community, they have one of the tamest communities I have experienced, full of helpful people like old EQ.
So as far as I'm concerned, your comment is null and void of any legitimacy. I'm not ragging on you, just stating a fact through observation and proof that mirroring everyone else isn't the only route to success. Success can come on many levels other than just "jumping on the bandwagon".
goat i think eq1 and eq2 would be good base to do an expension a la cataclysm the problem with this game is they would have to close server and probably relaunch game.
and thats the easy part
the technology soe used in the past for eq1 and eq2 probably cant evolve as wow evolve i bet if soe could have done it i bet they would have done it 5 years ago when wow debuted.
one day we ll probably see eq 1 and 2 remade one day but it wont be sony ,unless they re too lazy to upgrade ,it could be say the techno is there but they have to remoove a software they worked very hard to put there.
it like my old boss it costed him 50k to hire a programer for his computer etc long ago
he knew he could have a good software that could do 1000 time better what he was doing by grunting but he told me
he wasnt going to trash 50 k that easylly even tho he works 30 hour a week more he still use that program today
so here it might be this case if it costed x $ for sony and they still are paying for it even thot they could upgrade with the push of a button they might not be willing to part with that old software that costed an arm and a leg to put in there
I'm sorry, but you lost me. I think we are on two different subjects unless I missed something.
Are they planning to "update" existing game software (EQ1 and/or 2)? Or doing an totally new game based on Norrath?
Either way, they don't have to follow the trend and make another cookie-cutter game to be successful. Actually, making something engaging and different would be more successful than anything else because it would attract tons of people looking for "something different". Go to any game forum "newcomer's" area and you can find tons of people saying that they were tired of "X" game because it was the same old crap, etc.
Also, who is to say Sony hasn't had a team working on this game for months/years already? Or if my first question is the case, working on just that? Besides, I think Sony can overlook 50k if they wanted pretty easily. It's Sony...as multi-billion dollar company. Plus it's outdated technology that more than likely cant be upgraded. Even people that build their own rigs (like me), that don't have tons of cash know that you can only upgrade some of your rig so far before you KNOW you have to trash a particular part for new technology...and you do it, not because you want to, but because you HAVE to to continue on.
Sorry there,
EQ1 and EQ2 run on completely different engines,
the engine of EQ2 is very evolved, though they bet on the wrong horse for the future technology.
Atm they are rebuilding the engine and its throwing of its fruits.
- Shifting parts to Multi core
- Shadows on GPU in stead of CPU
- Next update Shaders 3.0 in stead of 1.0
Ortahr.
Its hard to say what the new EQ would be and if it will be an EQ extension or something re-imagined. We 'may' be getting back to Old School game play. I believe people are getting dulled by the instant gratification. Would we see another Risk vs Reward style game like the original EQ, I'm not so sure.
As it stands now there is such a small demographic of players that would buy into an 'earn as you learn' game as EQ was. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Ugh, lets hope not.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
It would be interesting to get some background on how SOE conducts business. Its easy for us to get frustrated, irritated and totally boggled by the decisions that are made. I'd love to see an open forum with SOE Dev's and allow players to ask questions, provided it doesn't violate any antitrust laws or intellectual property rights. There has to be a reason why they make the decisions they do despite the fact that we may totally disagree with it.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
I have said it before, but this new 'EQ' will very likely have more in common with games like CO in terms of gameplay... ez mode solo quest grinding with 'optional' grouping.
All paid for with a Pay to Achieve Item Mall.
Am I gonna hang around to watch what is left of the legend of EQ get turned into nothing more then a sterile virtual market space that exists purely to entice the stupidly gulliable into buying pretend magic swords for their pretend paper dolls with their real pocket money?
No. Screw that.
I expect nothing more of SOE then a exploitative cash in on the brand name of a once great game. They have no respect for games and only derison for anything that dosent make them the top dollar. The way this company conducts it's business actually disgusts me tbh.
"Am I gonna hang around to watch what is left of the legend of EQ get turned into nothing more then a sterile virtual market space that exists purely to entice the stupidly gulliable into buying pretend magic swords for their pretend paper dolls with their real pocket money?"
How is that ANY different than paying a monthly subscription, also, when it is totally optional when it comes to using a cash shop who gives a flying f***...
The entire, "I HAVE to use the cash shop or my character will not be able to compete...waaah..." rant is tired.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
And most importantly you don't want to be bitter about it.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Friend, you surely understand the difference between PLAYING to achieve and PAYING to achieve?
And to answer your thoughtfully posed question, people who want real games over retarded virtual market spaces probably give a flying ****.
For a more "In-depth" post on some things that I, as well as some others I'm sure, would love to see AND not see in Everquest Next.
Things to see:
1. Great storyline. I'd imagine this shouldn't be an issue considering the vast amount of lore found in EQ and EQ2 already to play off of. So no more on this.
2. Quests with a deeper purpose. It would be great to see quests with deep story lines and real purpose behind what you are doing. Not just some quickly fabricated garbage just to give you something to do. Also, quests that may lead to other discoveries and quests. Maybe multiple replies possible, leading to different quest routes or rewards even. Maybe even reputation hits depending on your actions.
Example: Visiting a town, you see a woman with her head in her hands crying. You approach and start a conversation to find out what is wrong. She mumbles through her tears that her husband and son went on a hunting trip in the nearby woods of kithicor earlier in the day, but had not returned and she fears the worse. Here you are given 3 choices for a response...1. "I'm sorry for your troubles, best of luck." Leave her to her woes. 2. "I can try and locate them for you, what are their names?" 3. "I can locate them for you, for a price." Woman's responses...1. Sobs louder as you walk away. Reputation hit. 2. "Thank you! I promise you a great reward upon their safe return!" 3. "Thanks you!", but only offers a small sack of platinum for your troubles.
However, you could add in twists such as you get to the woods and only find the boy hiding in an old hollowed out oak tree shaking in terror. The boy tells you his father was dragged off into the thickets by undead as dusk hit. Here you can simply take the boy back to his mother and be done with it, or take him back and return to see about the fathers fate as well. From here you can even branch it off again, and again.
3. Deep crafting system with purpose. Make items WORTH taking the time to gather materials for and crafting them. Make them WORTH people buying in the bazaar (If you add that feature again, which I know I personally would LOVE to see). Nothing more annoying than crafting fodder just to get to the good items. Make everything from the get-go worth it. Thus, making gathering materials to use, or to sell worth it. Make crafted items worth more, and better than world dropped items. (Except Epics of course).
FYI: Look at Vanguard's crafting system for an insight on how to make crafting engaging and not monotonous. (With some tweaks of course).
4. A BIG and open world. Most MMO's these days seem very restricted and linear in design (I.E. Age of Conan). Although I know it is somewhat tedious, a world with care put into it, where you can give directions based on landmarks to new players would be fantastic (I.E. Age of Conan). Not simple "copy and paste" landscapes. (I.E. Original EQ and/or World of Warcraft).
5. Intelligent AI. Nothing worse than seeing NPC's standing around waiting for you to pick a fight and do them in. Give them paths! Multiple paths in most cases to make them less predictable. Make LoS for them not only when casting or using ranged attacks, but when they see comrades engaged as well (I.E. Age of Conan...to a point. STILL broken to a degree there.) And having them drop items that fit the mob would be a nice bonus. Never understood how a bear drops a 2-handed sword, unless he ate it and painfully passed it upon death.
On the bear subject, here is where a quest could come into play when you find an arm holding a map on it. (eaten)
6. Gear repair needs. Make gear wear out over time, eventually needing completely replaced. This helps as far as crafted gear is concerned. Also, makes for a stronger in-game economy. This could even be a part of a blacksmiths job. So not only making gear brings in funds, but repairs as well.
7. Boat travel back again! BIG ships and long rides. But add stuff on the ships to do while in transit. Like the game you could open in EQ to play while traveling, bars where characters can mingle and get drunk...maybe even bar fight (ala AoC). Have pirate attacks at sea players can participate in to attempt to repel them, even man the ships cannons. Sea creature attacks at random.
8. A partial play off of #7. Random world events once in awhile. It would be SWEET if you could dedicate a team to just this function. Random city raids by NPC bandits, etc. Packs of wolves attacking small villages, attacks at sea, etc. You did it in EQ (Not sure on EQ2, didn't play it), DO IT AGAIN! It was a great change once in awhile to see!
9. Solid naming policy. I HATE seeing names like "1337DuD3" or "Legolasss" Inevitable, but you CAN minimize it. But they aren't my main issue..it's the names like "dfjghjwer" (A.k.a. Gold farmer). You KNOW they are farmers, so don't allow them to even be entered in the first place. I realize a lot of companies allow it and SAY they are combating it, which is true...to a degree. But I'm sure a few hundred accounts are banned to make it "look" like something is being done...but we all know that each time they get banned, they buy another, giving you more pocket money. So probably wasting time with this one.
Thing NOT to see:
1. Two million "Kill X amount of X creature", "Collect X amount of X item" quests. Some here and there is ok, but not so many it becomes a grind, and seethes of obvious laziness and lack of creativity.
2. Crafting system with no real purpose. Low level crafting fodder.
3. Dumb AI, as mentioned in #5.
4. Over emphasis on gear dependency.
5. Instances and instant transportation around every corner (Planes of Power anyone?)
6. World chat. PLEASE no! Zones chats are cool (If you go with zones instead of one seamless world.). World chat KILLS immersion. I'm sure some will disagree with this.
7. Unwanted group classes. PLEASE be sure to take lots of time to make sure each class can work effectively with another. No one likes spamming for a group for somewhere for hours. Inevitable...but thought I'd throw this out there.
8. Gold farmers/sellers. I know there isn't a fool proof way to do this, but I know some people will laugh and wish it the same as I do.
9. 1337 names. Guild names.
You have been crited for 10,000 wall of text damage! You have died. Now loading....
Notice how he dosent even call it 'EverQuest III'?
SOE are already distancing the original game from the brand... This is gonna be really tragic to watch.
I still hold out hope that one day a company will dare to make a game that designed to cater to a smaller, more specific market (- 90% of the people posting in this thread seem to want the same thing.) Establish a loyal fanbase and I'd think there was a chance of keeping more long-term subscriptions.
Just my opinion.
Its all about the money, small fan base doesn't pay the bills.
The Dev houses have really got you fooled eh? :P
Theres is a world apart between making a profit, which is well and good, and profiteering, which isnt.
SOE are profiteerers, no doubt.
I think much of what made the original eq great still works. Huge world, varied races, varied classes. Remove the autoattacks. Every attack should be a keypush. And since there are no autoattacks make sure you have a decent amount of regular attacks, but dont overdo it like what happened in eq2. Keep the macros. Lotro lost a lot by removing the ability to macro. Crit chains like in vanguard are a good thing. I have mixed feelings about multiplayer combos like in lotro. I think it is a good concept but in lotro it never had a really good feel to it. Maybe they just didnt get it right.
I knew this was coming back when we heard SOE was hiring lead developers for a new "Flagship Project".
Hearing SOE and flagship project immediately made me go "Oh they are making EQ3". Only time and luck will answer as to what it will be.
Alexis
*smiles*
Friend, you surely understand the difference between PLAYING to achieve and PAYING to achieve?
And to answer your thoughtfully posed question, people who want real games over retarded virtual market spaces probably give a flying ****.
Read it again, you can do it...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
It's going to be Freerealms with an Everquest skin designed for both consoles and PC to play together, i can just see it...
my web design: www.advancedws.com.au
I think a new EQ should keep most of the world from the first 2 games. The system needs to be very different howeverbecause we already played the old system for more than 10 years, it is time for something new.
Here is some of the things I would have done if I was the lead designer:
Cut out hitpoints. Or basicly put them on armours and or magic spells. To get hit by a weapon is always bad and it should be consequences for that. To be hit on the armour however is cool and it takes a lot of damage to go through a plate armour. Hitpoints is stupid since even naked characters can take a lot of punishment, hp is just an old rest from the D&D game.
Less attacks and a more realistic combat system. Funcom nailed half of this thing with the idea that you hit whatever your sword hits. Make it so that depending how strong you are the oponent often stop the swords when you hit them but a strong oponent can hit several people if they are standing right and some better control over the swings and combat would be a lot more fun. We don't need 50 different attacks for combat to be fun.
Better crafting. Making an item should be more like creating a character. Depending on your skills and the materials you have you should be able to design the item both with abilities and looks.
Less mining. Mining is the dumbest MMO thing ever. Heard of any hero who ever mined the metal for his own sword? Well some dude might have but in most cases the metal comes from a large mine. Have the heroes to do quests like caravan guarding or something instead, it makes a lot more sence. To collect rare herbs is ok but the common herbs make no sense either. Players should only have to collect rare things that are hard to get, if any peasant can grow it they will and will sell it rather cheap.
Guildhall+. The guildhalls of EQ2 is a nice idea but a guild should be able to build in from scratch like in Stronghold and dungeon keeper.
Non linear quests. All quests have to be completed in the same way but there are more ways than one to do something. You don't have to kill a bad guy to get something he have you could by it, threaten him, steal it or even make a fake copy to give to the questgiver. Biowares old Neverwinter nights showed the way to how you handle this kind of things.
No friggin go and kill 20 monster quests. I can grind without quests. Quests should be interesting like the HQ quests in EQ2, long things with good reward. Being a postman or rodent hunter is not anything for heroes, I rather have fewer and better written quests.
More character options, less item orientation. Loot is important in MMOs but it is a bit too important in EQ 1 & 2. To spend some more time on character development instead and make the item less powerful is a good idea. In real life items are good but not nearly as good as skills are. Make the character 75% and the items 25% or so. You can even have some character development things that are dropped by bosses, like when you capture skills in Guildwars.
Less levels. Really, 20 or 25 levels are enough and stop adding more levels in every expansion. More achivement is fine but the adding of more levels just kills of the older part of the game. 20 or 100 levels is really not any different as long as it takes the same time to reach the top. Too many levels will just hurt the gameplay. Or get rid of them totaly, look on pen and paper games like Runequest. More levels doesn't make the game more fun.
A formula for how good items can be. Have one for regular, treasured, legendary, fabled and for each tier of the raid items. And have cost on all the abilities. This will ensure that you don't make the items useless from the old part when you release an expansion and it will make the game live longer without killing of certain areas. It will also ensure that items are on the same power and that some doesn't totaly stink.
Smarter monsters. Gray monster shouldn't just ignore the player, they should run away from him and if attacked try to get away. You shouldn't be able to pull one of the gurds without the other one notice that you are killing his buddy within line of sight. Bosses should try to flee unless the are cornered when they have no chanse to win. The mobs have been as stupid in any game since EQ and it is time it should be changed.
As for minigames it could be fun to have some like poker at the tavern (or guildhouse), throwing knifes and so on. Thats fun but not for crafting since you will do the same thing a lot and it stops being fun rather soon.
I really don't care if I have to play the game on my PS3 even if Pc is my first choice for MMOs. What is important i that the game will have to differ from the first Eq but still be fun. For all I care they could keep Norrath exactly the same as in EQ 1 or 2 but the system needs to change a bit too make it more fun. It is ok to keep the highest places for NPCs but players should be able to affect the world around them also, maybe entering the freeport council. The combat needs to be more fun and interactive this time, less pushing the same buttons in a specific order and more about doing things at the right moment.
I actually think EQ3 could be a bigger game then Wow but then SOE will have to think out of the box and do what they did with EQ: Create something new and fun to play. If they on the other hand just make the graphics better with the same old gameplay the game will never be bigger than 200K subs.