Actually - even though the OP was a little harsh, he's correct.
Grinding is anything that sucks up time. Whether its questing, leveling professions, killing mobs, whatever... its all the same. Its still a grind no matter how you want to spin it.
I agree with the OP. If you don't like to grind (IE: Gain levels, skills, professions, whatever), then you shouldn't be playing MMOs.... its not saying "you can't play this game" he's saying "if you don't like this certain aspect, thats present in EVERY MMO then you are in the wrong genre". I can't say I disagree with him
you my friend...are a mind reader. you said exactly what i was thinking. And i agree. grinding is a time honoured MMO tradition. And if you dont like it your in the wrong genre...Personally i dont mind grinding.
There is a huge difference on a grind vvhere you have to grind for ages vvithout getting anything for it at all, oh yeah some skill upgrades and nothing nevv after i kill the same thing over and over for 20 hours, thats totally not a good thing at all unless the option is vvatching paint dry, oh vvait that vvould actually be faster and more revvarding ^^ .
If they actually threvv in more proggresion and gains for leveling up and more often it vvould hovvever be a good thing, I for sure have no plans at all to go into a allmost non revvarding grind.....
I agree every MMO/RPG is a grind and people play them and complain. I would like someone to name one MMO that isn't a grind.
To be fair... Guild Wars is probably the least Grindy MMO out of the bunch. You can get to top level in literally a day... then you're free to PVP until the moon shines over.
HOWEVER, that being said.. you STILL grind for the rarest weapons, money, even PVP is a grind when you do it over and over for whatever purpose.
I think most people who bitch about the "level grind" should really be looking at Guild Wars as a game to play.... Games like WoW, Aion, AoC, hell - even LOTRO which takes very little time to go to max level is still a grind.... but LOTRO don't have any world PVP what so ever... I firmly believe that people who are complaining about the ganking/PVP/lack of PVE content should be off RIGHT NOW giving money to Turbine. LOTRO is a fantastic game - but sadly it isn't for me. Its WAY too easy (IMO) and the lack of adventure/PVP makes it stale to me. Still - its a great game and I definitely see why ppl love it. Same way Aion is a great game...
The worst is people just trying to change the fundamentals because it doesn't do what THEY want it to do... last I checked, no one here is a project manager for NCSoft... they know what they are doing, and while this won't appeal to everyone, it appeals to enough of the player base that those involved really like what's built... and are very happy with it.
Yes it sounds harsh but the OP is right. If you feel that leveling, obtaining skills or do any character progression is a grind then unfortunately you are in the wrong genre. What you are labeling is as a grind has always been in rpgs, it is actually called character progression. That is the RPG genre and the reason people play RPGs. I am all for there being more options than just mmoRPGs for other people but don't try to change RPGs in the process. It would be better to make your voice's heard for your favorite genre to be introduced as a MMO.
The fact that the OP uses an asian console RPG to justify his view that every RPG is a grind disqualifies his whole argument. I've played pen'n'paper and pc RPG's all my life, and had never even heard of grinding for levels until my console RPG playing friend talked about doing it. Nevertheless, every MMO I've played has been a grind. With maybe the exception of EQ2. But hardly surprising as MMO's are just video games, whereas true RPG's are not.
What we refer to as grinding has become the standard in MMORPGs simply because developers have failed to make advancement in the game interesting. By grinding, I mean performing the same repetitive and boring tasks over and over again for very long periods of time. If developers actually succeeded at making the journey interesting rather than just a means to reaching the destination, we would not refer to it as grinding at all.
It is not unreasonable for us to ask developers to make games that are entertaining the entire way through. The current level treadmill model is nothing but a cop-out. It allows them to put in minimal effort on generating content because they know that many people will suffer through it anyway just to get to the end game. In my opinion, it should never be required for anyone to 'suffer through' anything in a game.
The first few times I went through the level grind, it was new and unique. Because of this, it didn't feel like a grind. Unfortunately I have now been playing MMOs for so long that I really can't stand the same old grind anymore... I know I'm not alone.
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting".
Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
Are you serious? Thats the fucking... In order for one to make such a comment one must have many issues... mentaly challenged perhaps? Seriosly though in what ever meaning do you want to pin grind on RPGs. Grind is not exclusivly but almost so in every korean/asian game, be it mmo to fuckin FPS. But guess what thats exactly the opposit of a good RPG. A good RPG is built on a storyline which makes you feel every mob matters!
A bad one, well there you just kill stuff for no appearent reason whatsoever. An Honoured tradition my ass, thats almost offensive.
of all good RPGs ex as diablo 1 and 2 theres killing but its somewhat fun and or, you can play strictly to the story without going for extra creeps or boss runs, its optional. RPGs they are, although not as pure as for instance might of magic if your into that kinda thing.
Conclusion, your statement is bullshit, also noone likes to grind, they may like what they get out of it as exp and items, but to say you actually like the grind itself is bullshit
You are not defining what a grind (or not a grind) is... you're defining what a good (or bad) game is...
Completely different points.
Lack of attitude goes a long way for people not thinking you're a complete asshat either... just sayin....
try reading the whole post before spouting out some nonsense and/or seeing the metaphores diablo 1 and 2 are what you might call hack and slash games, altough refered to as an RPG because of its level system and many items, its more of a action packed game then what it is about story and like I was pointing out that a good RPG revolves around a story. By good I dont mean fun or boring, I mean well structured and built in classic roleplaying style. Ex you are the knight thats going to save the princess and the world etc.
It doesnt necersarly be a fun game but it will be in the RPG way, a game such as a common mmo or a hack and slash games arent like that at all, they dont necesarly revolve around a story their more loose with their gaming experience and although you might call them RPGs they arent that true to their genre. Which can be fine, we have had many such games that do just as well but they arent truely RPGs.
So whats my point? Who cares its just a term right, a pick off genre, yes but to go to the lenght of saying you cant play RPGs if you dont like grinding is ridicolous since he/she/them are only reffering to the hack and slash games and leaves out those games who are true to their genre and core.
as for not mentioning what grind is... only a dumb fuck or someone completly new to the mmo/hack & slash games wouldnt know what grinding is, you can even tell on the word itself, needless to say its not pleasant
Next time read the whole post before start ranting, you might actually learn something
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting".
Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
statements like this make me feel that the poster is entirely ignoring the RPG element inside MMORPGs,
it seems to me that the only expierence of the poster comes from the well known so called korean/asian grinders.
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting".
Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
Are you serious? Thats the fucking... In order for one to make such a comment one must have many issues... mentaly challenged perhaps? Seriosly though in what ever meaning do you want to pin grind on RPGs. Grind is not exclusivly but almost so in every korean/asian game, be it mmo to fuckin FPS. But guess what thats exactly the opposit of a good RPG. A good RPG is built on a storyline which makes you feel every mob matters!
A bad one, well there you just kill stuff for no appearent reason whatsoever. An Honoured tradition my ass, thats almost offensive.
of all good RPGs ex as diablo 1 and 2 theres killing but its somewhat fun and or, you can play strictly to the story without going for extra creeps or boss runs, its optional. RPGs they are, although not as pure as for instance might of magic if your into that kinda thing.
Conclusion, your statement is bullshit, also noone likes to grind, they may like what they get out of it as exp and items, but to say you actually like the grind itself is bullshit
you would think the op pucnhed somones mom in the mouth.. All this cursing and un needed hatred towards him lol@ you asshats.. relax its his point of veiw. He brings it up cause people wanna whine about having to lvl or do quest to get to top lvl..If people didnt whine about games theyplay so much, people like the op wouldnt have to say stfu and play or gtfo newb......
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting".
Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
1. In the words of John Locke: "Dont tell me what I cant do!"
2. The problem people have with grinding sometimes, isnt the grind itself, but the length that it entails.
3. Yeah, grinding for 3 hours in FF7 may have been good and fun to lvl your materia up, but imagine if you had to grind for 300 hours, ya know?
4. A lot of MMOs that feature a big grind frustrate people because as you advance in level, you do not encounter anything new to keep your interest levels peaked.
Would you tell someone who has a burger at a restaurant but didnt like it that he/she shouldnt be eating burgers at all anywhere?
Have fun in your 2nd job, err i mean game, killing the same kind of mobs for hours and hours, i'd play a game where FUN is actually something devs think it's important.
For me a grindy game is a symptom of lazy developers.
Have fun in your 2nd job, err i mean game, killing the same kind of mobs for hours and hours, i'd play a game where FUN is actually something devs think it's important. For me a grindy game is a symptom of lazy developers.
well that reminds me of EQ1, the only way to lvl was to grind. And every couple of lvl's there was a hell lvl wich was 3 times harder exp wise.... And that game was fun ass hell... grind doesnt always mean not fun....
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting".
Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
RPGs should be a grind? Were games like Planescape Torment, Neverwinter Nights (especially the persistent Worlds focused on roleplaying) or Knights of the Old Republic a grind?
As someone already mentioned some posts earlier, change your topic's headline to "If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing MMOs".
Cammy, you need to play as an Asmodean and tell me what server you'll be on.
hehe, thanks man.. I have a huge problem with people who just rage on, not being constructive in their critism and just flat out being ignorant. This is a forum, and a game... stuff like that really is not called for....
I was still on the fence on which side I'm going to roll on. On one hand, I really like the Anso race, but on the other hand I have a feeling that it may attract, less mature individuals. I don't know why I feel that way, but I do.... Also depends on my gf who will be picking up Aion with me as well. She's currently playing WoW and still enjoys it but for me - I want something new and fresh with some REAL world PVP. We are both in the same mindset... we don't want end game to be handed to us.... we want to level up, meet some good friends, form a great legion and have fun partying, and learning the ropes. EVE was one of my favorite MMO's to date - but she doesn't like space So.... Aion it is!
As for server tastes, I'm thinking of rolling on Nezekan. How about yourself?
Sorry but the OP and those who side with him are wrong. Grind does not equal RPG.
MMOs can have no grind if they want. The most popular MMO out there (WoW) has almost no grind compared to some games.
Honestly you're just throwing around another elitist opinion and frankly it's crap. Guess what, the devs make the games, not you. The devs make the games to make money. If casual gamers are gonna bring in more money, bye bye grind. Welcome to reality.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
You actaully have a good point, but their are casual grinds (wow, lotr, AoC) then their are grindfests (l2, Aion). So their can be different levels of grinding (no pun intended).
All games have a grind, we have pinned down that fact. The question isn't "does it have a grind?" but "how horrible is the grind?" since we all know EVERY sort of level based end game playable game has a grind. Not one game doesn't. The games that do not have grinds are games you play to win. Not to attain a certain level as a goal for something more. Even tabletop AD&D had grinds. There are premade dungeons you can buy. Of course you can tailor to suit your needs, but if you are repeating those dungeons because of lack of new content (DM fault =P) or because you can't get into a diff element of the game based on level, you grind it out.
Most mmo's that have an end game, have a grind for one reason- LEARN your toon. Spend 40 levels, 50, 60, 120, 200 whatever, to learn how to play your toon. Getting instant level is horrible because the only way you'll survive in short term is to play someone else's build. Cookie cutter builds have the monopoly for that reason. Hence what makes most people roll alts.
Also, because it IS a time sink. That's the point. These companies are out to make money. Period. It isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing. Because it is possible to have such things that we can enjoy because WE like them. But things cost money. What's the point of a subscription if you are only going to play for 2 months? Means those companies have to keep you excited. It's a fine line catering to many types, 1 that Blizzard did do well (much to most of our chagrin). Everquest did VERY well in pioneering online gaming, but lacked the technology to stay at the top. Other advances made different engines and designs more superior. Blizzard proved this with WOW. When WOW was first released it was garbage in comparison. Then it became comparable. Then it outlived EQ because of the technology. Now since WOW has to consider the majority of gamers, it stopped catering to the high end raid groups to provide more for the casual. Why? Money. Again not a bad thing. But fact. How many people have fond memories of past games they have played? I'm sure quite a few. But we move on as technology goes.
WE GRIND MMORPG'S!!!
So like the TC said, if you do not like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs.
I don't agree with the op's statement but too each their own. Another point of view would be that grinding shouldn't exist in any mmo and that it's a game developers shortcut to create content but in any event it has become a part of most games these days. If you truely need what the grinding provides or else you can't play the game then I suppose it's necessary but then I wouldn't be paying to play that game. Grinding is the cheese they dangle in front of the mouse in the maze to keep him moving. If you have more intelligence than a mouse you might make your own choices and take what comes. There is lots of grinding in lotr and for the most part I've ignored it. And I still look forward to logging in each day after two years even though my character's aren't the strongest they could be while many grinders spend time lamenting on how easy the game is. Like I said, too each their own.
Cammy, you need to play as an Asmodean and tell me what server you'll be on.
hehe, thanks man.. I have a huge problem with people who just rage on, not being constructive in their critism and just flat out being ignorant. This is a forum, and a game... stuff like that really is not called for....
I was still on the fence on which side I'm going to roll on. On one hand, I really like the Anso race, but on the other hand I have a feeling that it may attract, less mature individuals. I don't know why I feel that way, but I do.... Also depends on my gf who will be picking up Aion with me as well. She's currently playing WoW and still enjoys it but for me - I want something new and fresh with some REAL world PVP. We are both in the same mindset... we don't want end game to be handed to us.... we want to level up, meet some good friends, form a great legion and have fun partying, and learning the ropes. EVE was one of my favorite MMO's to date - but she doesn't like space So.... Aion it is!
As for server tastes, I'm thinking of rolling on Nezekan. How about yourself?
I'm only 52% downloaded ATM, so uhm... haven't a clue. Had to reformat a drive to allow for the transfer of some folders (80g worth of movies) since I only had 1 partition NTFS (requirement for download). So I'm open to server, but I am going to play the darker half because I've always leaned towards that side. (Vampire the Masquerade, necromancers, undead, etc).
I'm not one to play a female character because I like staring at their asses all day, but I do tend to appreciate a more gothic look than knightly.
And yeah my gf is mmo free atm (we both played WoW but she was way more casual) so I'm hoping she will like Aion. When we both first seen a trailer back in 07 I think? maybe early 08, we both liked what we have seen so who knows.
Sorry but the OP and those who side with him are wrong. Grind does not equal RPG. MMOs can have no grind if they want. The most popular MMO out there (WoW) has almost no grind compared to some games. Honestly you're just throwing around another elitist opinion and frankly it's crap. Guess what, the devs make the games, not you. The devs make the games to make money. If casual gamers are gonna bring in more money, bye bye grind. Welcome to reality.
I can't even take you seriously...
WOW has no grind? ORLY?
Leveling to 80 isn't a grind? Doing raids, over and over... for loot... isn't a grind?
Leveling Professions aren't a grind? WoW is one of the BIGGEST grinds in an MMO.... Unless you can log in, instantly be level capped and not have to do anything that requires repetition, its a grind.
If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs, let alone MMORPGs. It's like playing Halo and saying "I don't like shooting".
Grinding is a time honoured RPG tradition. Why, I was just playing Final Fantasy VII on my PSP and I spend 3 hours grinding outside Wutai in order to level up my materia.
And who the hell are you telling people they shouldn't be playing a certain game just because they don't like grinding?.
You don't have to grind in mmorpgs if you don't want to
You can either kill monsters or do quests.
Grind is a term mostly used for doing the same boring thing over and over it doesn't automatically mean levelling up or even killing monsters.
Actually - even though the OP was a little harsh, he's correct.
Grinding is anything repetitive that sucks up time. Whether its questing, leveling professions, killing mobs, whatever... its all the same. Its still a grind no matter how you want to spin it.
Just wanted to add that one word in to qualify it... lots of things "suck up time" that aren't necessarily grinding.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
you my friend...are a mind reader. you said exactly what i was thinking. And i agree. grinding is a time honoured MMO tradition. And if you dont like it your in the wrong genre...Personally i dont mind grinding.
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function()
{
runescape != goodgame;
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There is a huge difference on a grind vvhere you have to grind for ages vvithout getting anything for it at all, oh yeah some skill upgrades and nothing nevv after i kill the same thing over and over for 20 hours, thats totally not a good thing at all unless the option is vvatching paint dry, oh vvait that vvould actually be faster and more revvarding ^^ .
If they actually threvv in more proggresion and gains for leveling up and more often it vvould hovvever be a good thing, I for sure have no plans at all to go into a allmost non revvarding grind.....
To be fair... Guild Wars is probably the least Grindy MMO out of the bunch. You can get to top level in literally a day... then you're free to PVP until the moon shines over.
HOWEVER, that being said.. you STILL grind for the rarest weapons, money, even PVP is a grind when you do it over and over for whatever purpose.
I think most people who bitch about the "level grind" should really be looking at Guild Wars as a game to play.... Games like WoW, Aion, AoC, hell - even LOTRO which takes very little time to go to max level is still a grind.... but LOTRO don't have any world PVP what so ever... I firmly believe that people who are complaining about the ganking/PVP/lack of PVE content should be off RIGHT NOW giving money to Turbine. LOTRO is a fantastic game - but sadly it isn't for me. Its WAY too easy (IMO) and the lack of adventure/PVP makes it stale to me. Still - its a great game and I definitely see why ppl love it. Same way Aion is a great game...
The worst is people just trying to change the fundamentals because it doesn't do what THEY want it to do... last I checked, no one here is a project manager for NCSoft... they know what they are doing, and while this won't appeal to everyone, it appeals to enough of the player base that those involved really like what's built... and are very happy with it.
Yes it sounds harsh but the OP is right. If you feel that leveling, obtaining skills or do any character progression is a grind then unfortunately you are in the wrong genre. What you are labeling is as a grind has always been in rpgs, it is actually called character progression. That is the RPG genre and the reason people play RPGs. I am all for there being more options than just mmoRPGs for other people but don't try to change RPGs in the process. It would be better to make your voice's heard for your favorite genre to be introduced as a MMO.
The fact that the OP uses an asian console RPG to justify his view that every RPG is a grind disqualifies his whole argument. I've played pen'n'paper and pc RPG's all my life, and had never even heard of grinding for levels until my console RPG playing friend talked about doing it. Nevertheless, every MMO I've played has been a grind. With maybe the exception of EQ2. But hardly surprising as MMO's are just video games, whereas true RPG's are not.
OP, I couldn't disagree with you more...
What we refer to as grinding has become the standard in MMORPGs simply because developers have failed to make advancement in the game interesting. By grinding, I mean performing the same repetitive and boring tasks over and over again for very long periods of time. If developers actually succeeded at making the journey interesting rather than just a means to reaching the destination, we would not refer to it as grinding at all.
It is not unreasonable for us to ask developers to make games that are entertaining the entire way through. The current level treadmill model is nothing but a cop-out. It allows them to put in minimal effort on generating content because they know that many people will suffer through it anyway just to get to the end game. In my opinion, it should never be required for anyone to 'suffer through' anything in a game.
The first few times I went through the level grind, it was new and unique. Because of this, it didn't feel like a grind. Unfortunately I have now been playing MMOs for so long that I really can't stand the same old grind anymore... I know I'm not alone.
Are you serious? Thats the fucking... In order for one to make such a comment one must have many issues... mentaly challenged perhaps? Seriosly though in what ever meaning do you want to pin grind on RPGs. Grind is not exclusivly but almost so in every korean/asian game, be it mmo to fuckin FPS. But guess what thats exactly the opposit of a good RPG. A good RPG is built on a storyline which makes you feel every mob matters!
A bad one, well there you just kill stuff for no appearent reason whatsoever. An Honoured tradition my ass, thats almost offensive.
of all good RPGs ex as diablo 1 and 2 theres killing but its somewhat fun and or, you can play strictly to the story without going for extra creeps or boss runs, its optional. RPGs they are, although not as pure as for instance might of magic if your into that kinda thing.
Conclusion, your statement is bullshit, also noone likes to grind, they may like what they get out of it as exp and items, but to say you actually like the grind itself is bullshit
You are not defining what a grind (or not a grind) is... you're defining what a good (or bad) game is...
Completely different points.
Lack of attitude goes a long way for people not thinking you're a complete asshat either... just sayin....
try reading the whole post before spouting out some nonsense and/or seeing the metaphores diablo 1 and 2 are what you might call hack and slash games, altough refered to as an RPG because of its level system and many items, its more of a action packed game then what it is about story and like I was pointing out that a good RPG revolves around a story. By good I dont mean fun or boring, I mean well structured and built in classic roleplaying style. Ex you are the knight thats going to save the princess and the world etc.
It doesnt necersarly be a fun game but it will be in the RPG way, a game such as a common mmo or a hack and slash games arent like that at all, they dont necesarly revolve around a story their more loose with their gaming experience and although you might call them RPGs they arent that true to their genre. Which can be fine, we have had many such games that do just as well but they arent truely RPGs.
So whats my point? Who cares its just a term right, a pick off genre, yes but to go to the lenght of saying you cant play RPGs if you dont like grinding is ridicolous since he/she/them are only reffering to the hack and slash games and leaves out those games who are true to their genre and core.
as for not mentioning what grind is... only a dumb fuck or someone completly new to the mmo/hack & slash games wouldnt know what grinding is, you can even tell on the word itself, needless to say its not pleasant
Next time read the whole post before start ranting, you might actually learn something
statements like this make me feel that the poster is entirely ignoring the RPG element inside MMORPGs,
it seems to me that the only expierence of the poster comes from the well known so called korean/asian grinders.
Are you serious? Thats the fucking... In order for one to make such a comment one must have many issues... mentaly challenged perhaps? Seriosly though in what ever meaning do you want to pin grind on RPGs. Grind is not exclusivly but almost so in every korean/asian game, be it mmo to fuckin FPS. But guess what thats exactly the opposit of a good RPG. A good RPG is built on a storyline which makes you feel every mob matters!
A bad one, well there you just kill stuff for no appearent reason whatsoever. An Honoured tradition my ass, thats almost offensive.
of all good RPGs ex as diablo 1 and 2 theres killing but its somewhat fun and or, you can play strictly to the story without going for extra creeps or boss runs, its optional. RPGs they are, although not as pure as for instance might of magic if your into that kinda thing.
Conclusion, your statement is bullshit, also noone likes to grind, they may like what they get out of it as exp and items, but to say you actually like the grind itself is bullshit
you would think the op pucnhed somones mom in the mouth.. All this cursing and un needed hatred towards him lol@ you asshats.. relax its his point of veiw. He brings it up cause people wanna whine about having to lvl or do quest to get to top lvl..If people didnt whine about games theyplay so much, people like the op wouldnt have to say stfu and play or gtfo newb......
ROFL.
Cammy, you need to play as an Asmodean and tell me what server you'll be on.
1. In the words of John Locke: "Dont tell me what I cant do!"
2. The problem people have with grinding sometimes, isnt the grind itself, but the length that it entails.
3. Yeah, grinding for 3 hours in FF7 may have been good and fun to lvl your materia up, but imagine if you had to grind for 300 hours, ya know?
4. A lot of MMOs that feature a big grind frustrate people because as you advance in level, you do not encounter anything new to keep your interest levels peaked.
Would you tell someone who has a burger at a restaurant but didnt like it that he/she shouldnt be eating burgers at all anywhere?
Anything becomes a grind when you realize why you are doing it and how much of it you
will have to do to reach a said goal.
If you actually play the game to have fun, games don't tend to be grindy. If you play to "Win"
(which you can't really do in a MMO) it just becomes a grind to get to what you want.
Poor game mechanics make the grind apparent to even those that aren't in it to "win" it.
MMOs are based on a persistent world that you continually revisit even after the "content"
has run out. At that point anything you do becomes repetition. That repetition is only grind
if it becomes unfun.
I play and love MMOs and I will not grind. I hate the grind, and I drop games once it becomes such.
Have fun in your 2nd job, err i mean game, killing the same kind of mobs for hours and hours, i'd play a game where FUN is actually something devs think it's important.
For me a grindy game is a symptom of lazy developers.
well that reminds me of EQ1, the only way to lvl was to grind. And every couple of lvl's there was a hell lvl wich was 3 times harder exp wise.... And that game was fun ass hell... grind doesnt always mean not fun....
RPGs should be a grind? Were games like Planescape Torment, Neverwinter Nights (especially the persistent Worlds focused on roleplaying) or Knights of the Old Republic a grind?
As someone already mentioned some posts earlier, change your topic's headline to "If you don't like grinding, you shouldn't be playing MMOs".
hehe, thanks man.. I have a huge problem with people who just rage on, not being constructive in their critism and just flat out being ignorant. This is a forum, and a game... stuff like that really is not called for....
I was still on the fence on which side I'm going to roll on. On one hand, I really like the Anso race, but on the other hand I have a feeling that it may attract, less mature individuals. I don't know why I feel that way, but I do.... Also depends on my gf who will be picking up Aion with me as well. She's currently playing WoW and still enjoys it but for me - I want something new and fresh with some REAL world PVP. We are both in the same mindset... we don't want end game to be handed to us.... we want to level up, meet some good friends, form a great legion and have fun partying, and learning the ropes. EVE was one of my favorite MMO's to date - but she doesn't like space
So.... Aion it is!
As for server tastes, I'm thinking of rolling on Nezekan. How about yourself?
So you're saying there's no improvement that can be made? Fail.
Sorry but the OP and those who side with him are wrong. Grind does not equal RPG.
MMOs can have no grind if they want. The most popular MMO out there (WoW) has almost no grind compared to some games.
Honestly you're just throwing around another elitist opinion and frankly it's crap. Guess what, the devs make the games, not you. The devs make the games to make money. If casual gamers are gonna bring in more money, bye bye grind. Welcome to reality.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
You actaully have a good point, but their are casual grinds (wow, lotr, AoC) then their are grindfests (l2, Aion). So their can be different levels of grinding (no pun intended).
Trolls = Hardcore
Fanbois = Carebears
The only posts I read in threads are my own.
All games have a grind, we have pinned down that fact. The question isn't "does it have a grind?" but "how horrible is the grind?" since we all know EVERY sort of level based end game playable game has a grind. Not one game doesn't. The games that do not have grinds are games you play to win. Not to attain a certain level as a goal for something more. Even tabletop AD&D had grinds. There are premade dungeons you can buy. Of course you can tailor to suit your needs, but if you are repeating those dungeons because of lack of new content (DM fault =P) or because you can't get into a diff element of the game based on level, you grind it out.
Most mmo's that have an end game, have a grind for one reason- LEARN your toon. Spend 40 levels, 50, 60, 120, 200 whatever, to learn how to play your toon. Getting instant level is horrible because the only way you'll survive in short term is to play someone else's build. Cookie cutter builds have the monopoly for that reason. Hence what makes most people roll alts.
Also, because it IS a time sink. That's the point. These companies are out to make money. Period. It isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing. Because it is possible to have such things that we can enjoy because WE like them. But things cost money. What's the point of a subscription if you are only going to play for 2 months? Means those companies have to keep you excited. It's a fine line catering to many types, 1 that Blizzard did do well (much to most of our chagrin). Everquest did VERY well in pioneering online gaming, but lacked the technology to stay at the top. Other advances made different engines and designs more superior. Blizzard proved this with WOW. When WOW was first released it was garbage in comparison. Then it became comparable. Then it outlived EQ because of the technology. Now since WOW has to consider the majority of gamers, it stopped catering to the high end raid groups to provide more for the casual. Why? Money. Again not a bad thing. But fact. How many people have fond memories of past games they have played? I'm sure quite a few. But we move on as technology goes.
WE GRIND MMORPG'S!!!
So like the TC said, if you do not like grinding, you shouldn't be playing RPGs.
I don't agree with the op's statement but too each their own. Another point of view would be that grinding shouldn't exist in any mmo and that it's a game developers shortcut to create content but in any event it has become a part of most games these days. If you truely need what the grinding provides or else you can't play the game then I suppose it's necessary but then I wouldn't be paying to play that game. Grinding is the cheese they dangle in front of the mouse in the maze to keep him moving. If you have more intelligence than a mouse you might make your own choices and take what comes. There is lots of grinding in lotr and for the most part I've ignored it. And I still look forward to logging in each day after two years even though my character's aren't the strongest they could be while many grinders spend time lamenting on how easy the game is. Like I said, too each their own.
Eve
/thread
hehe, thanks man.. I have a huge problem with people who just rage on, not being constructive in their critism and just flat out being ignorant. This is a forum, and a game... stuff like that really is not called for....
I was still on the fence on which side I'm going to roll on. On one hand, I really like the Anso race, but on the other hand I have a feeling that it may attract, less mature individuals. I don't know why I feel that way, but I do.... Also depends on my gf who will be picking up Aion with me as well. She's currently playing WoW and still enjoys it but for me - I want something new and fresh with some REAL world PVP. We are both in the same mindset... we don't want end game to be handed to us.... we want to level up, meet some good friends, form a great legion and have fun partying, and learning the ropes. EVE was one of my favorite MMO's to date - but she doesn't like space
So.... Aion it is!
As for server tastes, I'm thinking of rolling on Nezekan. How about yourself?
I'm only 52% downloaded ATM, so uhm... haven't a clue. Had to reformat a drive to allow for the transfer of some folders (80g worth of movies) since I only had 1 partition NTFS (requirement for download). So I'm open to server, but I am going to play the darker half because I've always leaned towards that side. (Vampire the Masquerade, necromancers, undead, etc).
I'm not one to play a female character because I like staring at their asses all day, but I do tend to appreciate a more gothic look than knightly.
And yeah my gf is mmo free atm (we both played WoW but she was way more casual) so I'm hoping she will like Aion. When we both first seen a trailer back in 07 I think? maybe early 08, we both liked what we have seen so who knows.
mmorpgs=leveling
leveling=grinding
/thread end
PS - All mammals have nipples.
Get over it already.
I can't even take you seriously...
WOW has no grind? ORLY?
Leveling to 80 isn't a grind? Doing raids, over and over... for loot... isn't a grind?
Leveling Professions aren't a grind? WoW is one of the BIGGEST grinds in an MMO.... Unless you can log in, instantly be level capped and not have to do anything that requires repetition, its a grind.
And who the hell are you telling people they shouldn't be playing a certain game just because they don't like grinding?.
You don't have to grind in mmorpgs if you don't want to
You can either kill monsters or do quests.
Grind is a term mostly used for doing the same boring thing over and over it doesn't automatically mean levelling up or even killing monsters.
Actually - even though the OP was a little harsh, he's correct.
Grinding is anything repetitive that sucks up time. Whether its questing, leveling professions, killing mobs, whatever... its all the same. Its still a grind no matter how you want to spin it.
Just wanted to add that one word in to qualify it... lots of things "suck up time" that aren't necessarily grinding.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops