Googajoob made this topic as a follow up to his previous topic, "faction switch another landmark in the slow decline of warcrafts gameplay". In that topic he said "how can i hate wow i played it for 4 years". You ever notice that the people that start these topics and use the defence "I played WoW for years and now I hate it because its too easy and dumbed down" never ever provide an Armory link? I guess these people dont want us to inspect their gear, Achievements and PvP records.
What does his gear, achievements and pvp record have to do with anything? Nothing to do with this post that's for sure. The only reason someone would even ask is because they are a kid or a 18/20 something with an e-peen complex. Now I think the point a couple of you are trying to make is that there is hardcore stuff to do ... well the OP never said there wasn't hardcore aspects. The suggestion is for the rest of the game ... you know ... what most people are doing. Leveling is easy, dungeons are super retarded easy, the heroics are stupid easy, even most of the achievments associated with the heroics are stupid easy, Naxx and most of those achievments were stupid easy as well. I mean FFS, I don't think I had 1 bad PUG from 70-80 the content was so dumbed down.
I think Ulduar was a step in the right direction but a little too late for me. Im done, not because of ease of the content but Ive just played for way too long .... I need something new.
I have to agree and disagree with you on this point.
Everything was easy, but I do not think it was the intention of blizzard to do this. They made to many changes to classes, raiding, buffs, talents, etc at the same time as they were making a new expansion. Far to many changes at one time to balance as the easy of lich king was the result.
Players simply did more dps, threat, area effect, mitigation, mana and health which made content much easier. Blizzard missed the balance ratio they previously had. Ever since release they have been slowly reducing it, but to little to late. Ulduar is a step in the right direction though and I think things from that point on will be fine though.
You are right in how easy the release content of lich king was.
mm guys remember its a 2004 game
if they made this game today they wouldnt need to make it very hard why?
because they could implement an AI so anoying you would be crying for mercy
they wouldnt need boss or those thing
with a very good AI they could beat most of gamer
but remember they go for the mass not for the 1 in a 100000 elitist the market isnt big enough to be worth it
they concentrate on other stuff like the story massive pvp is one of their goal but since techno wont be here for at least another year they got to lower number of player
i bet they could put an ai that would make every little quest fight an epic battle but their cash cow would probably play elsewhere nobody has 3 hour to finish 1 quest for killing 5 creature lol
Not for me. Raising a mobs HP and making the grind longer doesn't make it better for me.
When I refer to WoW's simplicity, I mean in the terms of gameplay mechanics, from combat to crafting. Unless they change, I probably won't come back. But, I'm only one sub, WoW is wildly popular for a reason. It's accesible, the game I want wouldn't be and I don't expect WoW to change for me.
____________________________ Telthalion Rohircil - Guardian - Elemandir - Lord of The Rings Online --- == RIP == Torey - Commando - Orion - Tabula Rasa == RIP == --- Jordaniel Torey - Navy Megathron, Active Armor Tank - Tranquility - EVE Online --- Torey Scott - Rifleman - Fallen Earth ____________________________
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Not for me. Raising a mobs HP and making the grind longer doesn't make it better for me. When I refer to WoW's simplicity, I mean in the terms of gameplay mechanics, from combat to crafting. Unless they change, I probably won't come back. But, I'm only one sub, WoW is wildly popular for a reason. It's accesible, the game I want wouldn't be and I don't expect WoW to change for me.
i just cant afford wow anymore let alone the new game coming out maybe in 2 year when recession is finish but for now ill concentrate on trying to keep a roof over our head and food on the table
Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero I want a classic server. I'd come back to wow if they did that, at least until TOR launched.
This post was a classic example of why the OP's 'solution' is a non starter from the off, simply because you cannot please all of the people no matter what you do and even if you did cater to even a small minority there is gonna be another minority group that feels left out.
Blizzard have a direction for the game and for those that have said "so many people want" or "lots of people want" well that isn't really true now is it as the numbers say differently for the time being at least. As for the "Blizzard doesn't listen" quotes, well again that is far from the truth as that is why the game has gone in the casual direction it has for so long as they are the majority audience.
Yes they have made some decisions that have been unpopular with some small groups of people, but until they make an almighty balls up of something that loses them 20% of their casual crowd, don't expect any major changes or bending to minority whims.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
What the OP is asking for isn't even harder, he just wants everything slower.
"Such servers would offer less drops in raids , make epics harder to achieve and offer slower leveling ."
Why? People already complain about grinding and you want it to take longer? I have no doubt it is such a small minority that wants longer grinds that Blizzard wouldn't care what you do.
Your argument is flawed. Sure, they may not want two code bases, but it certainly insn't something they couldn't do quite easily. DAOC back in the day supported at least 3 different rulesets with far fewer resources at their disposal than Blizzard has. If you think its OK for a company to ignore what the playerbase might want, fine, but to try and say what they want to play is invalid isn't a sound arguement. Me, I'd prefer to see a FFA PVP server, and I'm sure there's folks who would support a server or two along those same lines.
The handful of people who want a FFA PVP server, or pre-60 servers, or super hard mode servers are not Blizzards customers, or atleast they are so small in numbers that.. and yes this might be harsh but its business after all.. they dont find it worth the time/money to do such servers.
No company, big or small can satisfy every one, and like it not they cannot satisfy the handful that want other server types, I hate to point to numbers but millions seem rather happy with the state of play in wow at the moment.
As to listening to customers, blizzard are amoung the best when it comes to that.
I'm willing to bet the number is more than a handful, and I'll even venture to say once WOW's subs start to drop, they'll be more receptive to alternate rules servers.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Your argument is flawed. Sure, they may not want two code bases, but it certainly insn't something they couldn't do quite easily. DAOC back in the day supported at least 3 different rulesets with far fewer resources at their disposal than Blizzard has. If you think its OK for a company to ignore what the playerbase might want, fine, but to try and say what they want to play is invalid isn't a sound arguement. Me, I'd prefer to see a FFA PVP server, and I'm sure there's folks who would support a server or two along those same lines.
The handful of people who want a FFA PVP server, or pre-60 servers, or super hard mode servers are not Blizzards customers, or atleast they are so small in numbers that.. and yes this might be harsh but its business after all.. they dont find it worth the time/money to do such servers.
No company, big or small can satisfy every one, and like it not they cannot satisfy the handful that want other server types, I hate to point to numbers but millions seem rather happy with the state of play in wow at the moment.
As to listening to customers, blizzard are amoung the best when it comes to that.
I'm willing to bet the number is more than a handful, and I'll even venture to say once WOW's subs start to drop, they'll be more receptive to alternate rules servers.
I think your right . Eventually it will happen because it makes good financial sence . This is something that needs to happen . If it does not . Warcraft will implode .
Theres a saying . The bigger they are the harder they fall .
Your argument is flawed. Sure, they may not want two code bases, but it certainly insn't something they couldn't do quite easily. DAOC back in the day supported at least 3 different rulesets with far fewer resources at their disposal than Blizzard has. If you think its OK for a company to ignore what the playerbase might want, fine, but to try and say what they want to play is invalid isn't a sound arguement. Me, I'd prefer to see a FFA PVP server, and I'm sure there's folks who would support a server or two along those same lines.
The handful of people who want a FFA PVP server, or pre-60 servers, or super hard mode servers are not Blizzards customers, or atleast they are so small in numbers that.. and yes this might be harsh but its business after all.. they dont find it worth the time/money to do such servers.
No company, big or small can satisfy every one, and like it not they cannot satisfy the handful that want other server types, I hate to point to numbers but millions seem rather happy with the state of play in wow at the moment.
As to listening to customers, blizzard are amoung the best when it comes to that.
I'm willing to bet the number is more than a handful, and I'll even venture to say once WOW's subs start to drop, they'll be more receptive to alternate rules servers.
This is what I don't get. WOW has been incredibly successful from doing things the right way. Check Amazon.com WOW battlechest is STILL in the top 20 of pc games sold. My server, Fenris, is very average, yet we still have queues on fri and sat nights and on weeknights after a patch.
I don't think anyone should be giving Blizzard 'advice' on how to treat their customers. Look at AOC, WAR, Darkfall and tell me which business model YOU would want to follow.
Originally posted by Bama1267 Originally posted by Xiaoki Googajoob made this topic as a follow up to his previous topic, "faction switch another landmark in the slow decline of warcrafts gameplay". In that topic he said "how can i hate wow i played it for 4 years". You ever notice that the people that start these topics and use the defence "I played WoW for years and now I hate it because its too easy and dumbed down" never ever provide an Armory link? I guess these people dont want us to inspect their gear, Achievements and PvP records.
What does his gear, achievements and pvp record have to do with anything? Nothing to do with this post that's for sure. The only reason someone would even ask is because they are a kid or a 18/20 something with an e-peen complex. Now I think the point a couple of you are trying to make is that there is hardcore stuff to do ... well the OP never said there wasn't hardcore aspects. The suggestion is for the rest of the game ... you know ... what most people are doing. Leveling is easy, dungeons are super retarded easy, the heroics are stupid easy, even most of the achievments associated with the heroics are stupid easy, Naxx and most of those achievments were stupid easy as well. I mean FFS, I don't think I had 1 bad PUG from 70-80 the content was so dumbed down. I think Ulduar was a step in the right direction but a little too late for me. Im done, not because of ease of the content but Ive just played for way too long .... I need something new. Googajoob keeps saying that WoW is too easy so it will appeal to "very young kids". Me wanting to see his character has nothing to do with "e-peen" or anything like that, I want to know if he actually made progress through the content he says is too easy and dumbed down for kids. He admitted that he played WoW for 4 years so substantial experience with the high end content would be no problem at all for someone like him. If he was able to prove that he was a high level player then I would take him more seriously. Well, that and if he stopped saying WoW is meant for very young kids. That type of ignorance is why I call his motivations into question.
Googajoob made this topic as a follow up to his previous topic, "faction switch another landmark in the slow decline of warcrafts gameplay".
In that topic he said "how can i hate wow i played it for 4 years".
You ever notice that the people that start these topics and use the defence "I played WoW for years and now I hate it because its too easy and dumbed down" never ever provide an Armory link?
I guess these people dont want us to inspect their gear, Achievements and PvP records.
What does his gear, achievements and pvp record have to do with anything? Nothing to do with this post that's for sure. The only reason someone would even ask is because they are a kid or a 18/20 something with an e-peen complex. Now I think the point a couple of you are trying to make is that there is hardcore stuff to do ... well the OP never said there wasn't hardcore aspects. The suggestion is for the rest of the game ... you know ... what most people are doing. Leveling is easy, dungeons are super retarded easy, the heroics are stupid easy, even most of the achievments associated with the heroics are stupid easy, Naxx and most of those achievments were stupid easy as well. I mean FFS, I don't think I had 1 bad PUG from 70-80 the content was so dumbed down.
I think Ulduar was a step in the right direction but a little too late for me. Im done, not because of ease of the content but Ive just played for way too long .... I need something new.
Googajoob keeps saying that WoW is too easy so it will appeal to "very young kids".
Me wanting to see his character has nothing to do with "e-peen" or anything like that, I want to know if he actually made progress through the content he says is too easy and dumbed down for kids.
He admitted that he played WoW for 4 years so substantial experience with the high end content would be no problem at all for someone like him.
If he was able to prove that he was a high level player then I would take him more seriously. Well, that and if he stopped saying WoW is meant for very young kids. That type of ignorance is why I call his motivations into question.
I think Blizzard wanted to make WoW easier so it would appeal to a certain target market which they were not retaining a couple of years ago . A lot of people like to play the game as a family and have multiple accounts . Blizzard recognised this and made a commerical decision to make a the majority of the games content easier . This is undeniable . Look at the evidence . Leveling that is one third faster than it used to be . Less experiance in the battleground needed to achieve an epic item Even the dual class thing means that you can now have a pve and pvp spec on the same character .I was in a pretty good guild and a 25 man run presented us with little problem . They are fun but they only offer very limited challenge one you ve done them once or twice .
What i would like to see you do Xiaoki is to post the names of your characters so we can tell if you know what your talking about as well . You seam anxious to get someone else to put thier information for all to see in these forums . Lead the way .
I think Blizzard wanted to make WoW easier so it would appeal to a certain target market which they were not retaining a couple of years ago . A lot of people like to play the game as a family and have multiple accounts . Blizzard recognised this and made a commerical decision to make a the majority of the games content easier . This is undeniable . Look at the evidence . Leveling that is one third faster than it used to be . Less experiance in the battleground needed to achieve an epic item Even the dual class thing means that you can now have a pve and pvp spec on the same character .I was in a pretty good guild and a 25 man run presented us with little problem . They are fun but they only offer very limited challenge one you ve done them once or twice .
What i would like to see you do Xiaoki is to post the names of your characters so we can tell if you know what your talking about as well . You seam anxious to get someone else to put thier information for all to see in these forums . Lead the way .
PUT UP OR SHUT UP .
That isn't really an accurate measurement. Someone could have been through the content and still think the game is easy. A better question is to have them compare something else. Saying WoW is easy implies another MMORPG is hard. Well, what MMORPG, and what is hard about it? That is the proper question. Yet to see anyone answer it with a valid response to date.
Googajoob made this topic as a follow up to his previous topic, "faction switch another landmark in the slow decline of warcrafts gameplay".
In that topic he said "how can i hate wow i played it for 4 years".
You ever notice that the people that start these topics and use the defence "I played WoW for years and now I hate it because its too easy and dumbed down" never ever provide an Armory link?
I guess these people dont want us to inspect their gear, Achievements and PvP records.
What does his gear, achievements and pvp record have to do with anything? Nothing to do with this post that's for sure. The only reason someone would even ask is because they are a kid or a 18/20 something with an e-peen complex. Now I think the point a couple of you are trying to make is that there is hardcore stuff to do ... well the OP never said there wasn't hardcore aspects. The suggestion is for the rest of the game ... you know ... what most people are doing. Leveling is easy, dungeons are super retarded easy, the heroics are stupid easy, even most of the achievments associated with the heroics are stupid easy, Naxx and most of those achievments were stupid easy as well. I mean FFS, I don't think I had 1 bad PUG from 70-80 the content was so dumbed down.
I think Ulduar was a step in the right direction but a little too late for me. Im done, not because of ease of the content but Ive just played for way too long .... I need something new.
Googajoob keeps saying that WoW is too easy so it will appeal to "very young kids".
Me wanting to see his character has nothing to do with "e-peen" or anything like that, I want to know if he actually made progress through the content he says is too easy and dumbed down for kids.
He admitted that he played WoW for 4 years so substantial experience with the high end content would be no problem at all for someone like him.
If he was able to prove that he was a high level player then I would take him more seriously. Well, that and if he stopped saying WoW is meant for very young kids. That type of ignorance is why I call his motivations into question.
Reading the OPs post it seams to be framed as a question . Its an invitation to talk about the subject . If you look these forums are full of people that say WoW is too easy for them now . Waracft success it souly down to a lack of competition . All mmorpgs have failed to offer mass appeal . But remember WoW had mass appeal before they made it easier . Its continued success can be put down to the fact that theres a lot of children in the world that find it more accessable to them .
If there were advanced servers you would not feel the need to come into these forums and defend your choice of game against trolls . You could just point to the fact there were advanced servers . No one would make you play on it would be your choice . Whats the problem with having more choice in how you play the game ?
Say advanced servers brought back even half a million players there would still be a huge prophet to be made from them . or say they retain older players even six months longer its still a good idea . As other have pointed out this would not be an overly expensive thing to do . The rewards could be great .
If they do not work Blizzard could easily get rid of them . But what if they do . WoWs success and dominance of the market may last a few years longer than it would other wise .
WoW cannot dominate the market forever . You would have to be stupid beyond all belief to think it will . All games have a shelf life even mmos . WoW can really only hope to maintain its current levels for 2-4 years at best .
Although it think the game will still be in active in a decade from now and proberbly will still be able to boast over a million players even then .
To argue against more choice makes no sence to me . I think all the OP has done is hurt a few peoples feelings because it makes then feel it lessens the achievments they make in game . So they react with anger rather than actually consider the benefits of the option of advanced gameplay .
All single player games offer different difficulty modes . I dont feel bad because i complete tomb raider on normal mode . Why should anyone feel that way if they play Warcraft on normal mode . ( if they ever do offer advanced servers which i think they will ) . Some people just like more of a challenge than others ,
Do you really want WoW to be thought of as the starter mmo in a few years time when there is some real competition to it ? . A place where people go for thier first mmo experiance before progressing onto other more difficult games . You see at present thats the way things are headed .
Advanced servers offer a solution to that .What a good idea .
Originally posted by arthen999 Advanced servers offer a solution to that .What a good idea .
No! It offers a solution to the niche of people that want that type of server!
What about the people that want WoW vanilla only servers, perma death servers, pure roleplay servers.......the list is endless as to the type of game various people want WoW to be. Does their view or opinion have less value than that of the OP or the particular group that would want 'advanced' servers? What if the first server still wasn't advanced enough for some, does Blizzard start another 'Advanced+' server to compensate for that??
I love your idea that Blizzard can just open a server, see if it works and just close it if it isn't popular, LOL. To be blunt, that just shows a complete misunderstanding of how development, support and business in general works. If Blizzard started sinking money and resources into random projects on the whim of a small minority of players, their shareholders would string them up at the next AGM.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Advanced servers offer a solution to that .What a good idea .
No! It offers a solution to the niche of people that want that type of server!
What about the people that want WoW vanilla only servers, perma death servers, pure roleplay servers.......the list is endless as to the type of game various people want WoW to be. Does their view or opinion have less value than that of the OP or the particular group that would want 'advanced' servers? What if the first server still wasn't advanced enough for some, does Blizzard start another 'Advanced+' server to compensate for that??
I love your idea that Blizzard can just open a server, see if it works and just close it if it isn't popular, LOL. To be blunt, that just shows a complete misunderstanding of how development, support and business in general works. If Blizzard started sinking money and resources into random projects on the whim of a small minority of players, their shareholders would string them up at the next AGM.
There is a huge difference between such niche servers as you mention and offering a hard mode for players that want more challenge .,THE biggest gripe people have against WoW is that its too easy . Also avanced servers would be pretty easy to impliment ( compared to say adult servers or classic servers ) and really are only an extention of what single player games offer already in allowing people to have a bit more of a chellenge if they wish it .
1. You make the assumption its a small minority . I would say from my experiance of talking to people ingame and from comments being made in various forums on various site online that there its significantly more than a small minority .
2. When WoWs subscription numbers start to fall ( and they will sooner or later ) Blizzard will have to identify why people are leaving . If it indeed becomes clear that they have made the game far too easy for a lot of player they will have to think about solutions . Advanced servers would offer that . That is how a successful buisness is run .
3. If they do indeed to start Advanced servers they proberbly would only start with a handful of them . Say only 10 percent of players wanted to play on them that would still be more tham enough to make them viable .
A good buisness model is always flexable and goes to show how limited your understanding of buisness is .
WoW will face more challenges from other games within the coming years its inevitable . They need to start thinking of ways to retain the current playerbase or bring back players they lose . The shareholders would be the first to demand Advanced servers if indeed if it becomes apparent that a major factor was the percieved ease of the game .
My gut instinct is that we will see something like them introduced to Warcraft in the coming years .
------ > BTW it is ILLEGAL to share accounts. And as such you are even into violation of this forum's policy (promoting illegal activity within the game).
Actually, for reference, it isn't. Blizzard allows you to share accounts between parents and children (that meet certain criteria). Admittedly, in this case, he's still breaking the terms, but I just wanted to point it out in case anyone else is reading and gets the wrong idea.
Originally posted by arthen999A good buisness model is always flexable and goes to show how limited your understanding of buisness is.
A good business plan is flexible it is true, but only to the point where it falls within the overall business model, where it falls outside these lines it creates tension against the rest of the business and that is never good. Any deviation from the planned course of action will create unforseen cost/support/development and shareholder concerns.
You speak of my assumptions and then say "from my experience"? Well in that case if it makes it a more solid business decision foundation i will rephrase, "from my experience it is a minority of players!"
Again, you say "the biggest gripe" is too easy a game, other posts claim the biggest gripe is the community, others claim the biggest gripe is poor PvP, are you seeing the pattern??? If you cater for one minority request then you don't actually solve a problem, you create a rod for your own back as then all the other groups decide that they are being left out with their requests and the snowball starts it's inevitable roll downhill.
Go to any game forum and you will see people complaining about how their game should have had this, that or the other and they would have stayed. The changes to WoW made sense as the game became more and more weighted towards the top end and they wanted to ensure that even casual players could get a chance to sample the action up there. I have been at both ends of the spectrum on this as i have been around since release, i have never been much of a raider after my experiences in Vanilla WoW and BC never lit my fire for it either really, but Wrath has peaked my interest in raiding again, but i guess it wasn't for everyone.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Originally posted by arthen999A good buisness model is always flexable and goes to show how limited your understanding of buisness is.
A good business plan is flexible it is true, but only to the point where it falls within the overall business model, where it falls outside these lines it creates tension against the rest of the business and that is never good. Any deviation from the planned course of action will create unforseen cost/support/development and shareholder concerns.
You speak of my assumptions and then say "from my experience"? Well in that case if it makes it a more solid business decision foundation i will rephrase, "from my experience it is a minority of players!"
Again, you say "the biggest gripe" is too easy a game, other posts claim the biggest gripe is the community, others claim the biggest gripe is poor PvP, are you seeing the pattern??? If you cater for one minority request then you don't actually solve a problem, you create a rod for your own back as then all the other groups decide that they are being left out with their requests and the snowball starts it's inevitable roll downhill.
Go to any game forum and you will see people complaining about how their game should have had this, that or the other and they would have stayed. The changes to WoW made sense as the game became more and more weighted towards the top end and they wanted to ensure that even casual players could get a chance to sample the action up there. I have been at both ends of the spectrum on this as i have been around since release, i have never been much of a raider after my experiences in Vanilla WoW and BC never lit my fire for it either really, but Wrath has peaked my interest in raiding again, but i guess it wasn't for everyon
I guess the only way we can tell how popular making the game more easy is at present is when Blizzard release their quarterly statement about subscription levels unfortunatly it appears theres not been one since December 2008 and its now nearly August 2009.
Originally posted by arthen999 I guess the only way we can tell how popular making the game more easy is at present is when Blizzard release their quarterly statement about subscription levels unfortunatly it appears theres not been one since December 2008 and its now nearly August 2009.
Even if they release a statement that they have lost 50% of subs, it will mean nothing in terms of your argument unless they also release a side note in that statement saying "all of these subs were lost because we made the game too easy!!!"
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Originally posted by jason_webb Again, you say "the biggest gripe" is too easy a game, other posts claim the biggest gripe is the community, others claim the biggest gripe is poor PvP, are you seeing the pattern??? If you cater for one minority request then you don't actually solve a problem, you create a rod for your own back as then all the other groups decide that they are being left out with their requests and the snowball starts it's inevitable roll downhill.
Yep - he's right. If you start making blue cars then next thing you know people will be asking for red cars. And then green cars. And white cars. And metallic colours. It will never end...
It's much more sensible to stick to just making black cars. That will enable us to take full advantage of mass production techniques.
----
Good modern businesses listen to their customers and respond.
The only reason Blizzard hasn't done so in this and similar cases is because they have such a strong, near monopoly, position, that they don't really have to put much effort into keeping people pleased .
Everquest managed to implement several servers with variant rulesets - and Everquest works according to a much smaller budget than WoW.
So why can't WoW do it?
---
And you might argue that a "hard-mode" server wouldn't be the most popular type. Maybe you're right.
But a good business would then go away, do it's research, talk to it's customers, and find out what the most popular new server type would be. It wouldn't just do nothing.
Comments
Just give me pre battleground servers
What does his gear, achievements and pvp record have to do with anything? Nothing to do with this post that's for sure. The only reason someone would even ask is because they are a kid or a 18/20 something with an e-peen complex. Now I think the point a couple of you are trying to make is that there is hardcore stuff to do ... well the OP never said there wasn't hardcore aspects. The suggestion is for the rest of the game ... you know ... what most people are doing. Leveling is easy, dungeons are super retarded easy, the heroics are stupid easy, even most of the achievments associated with the heroics are stupid easy, Naxx and most of those achievments were stupid easy as well. I mean FFS, I don't think I had 1 bad PUG from 70-80 the content was so dumbed down.
I think Ulduar was a step in the right direction but a little too late for me. Im done, not because of ease of the content but Ive just played for way too long .... I need something new.
I have to agree and disagree with you on this point.
Everything was easy, but I do not think it was the intention of blizzard to do this. They made to many changes to classes, raiding, buffs, talents, etc at the same time as they were making a new expansion. Far to many changes at one time to balance as the easy of lich king was the result.
Players simply did more dps, threat, area effect, mitigation, mana and health which made content much easier. Blizzard missed the balance ratio they previously had. Ever since release they have been slowly reducing it, but to little to late. Ulduar is a step in the right direction though and I think things from that point on will be fine though.
You are right in how easy the release content of lich king was.
mm guys remember its a 2004 game
if they made this game today they wouldnt need to make it very hard why?
because they could implement an AI so anoying you would be crying for mercy
they wouldnt need boss or those thing
with a very good AI they could beat most of gamer
but remember they go for the mass not for the 1 in a 100000 elitist the market isnt big enough to be worth it
they concentrate on other stuff like the story massive pvp is one of their goal but since techno wont be here for at least another year they got to lower number of player
i bet they could put an ai that would make every little quest fight an epic battle but their cash cow would probably play elsewhere nobody has 3 hour to finish 1 quest for killing 5 creature lol
Not for me. Raising a mobs HP and making the grind longer doesn't make it better for me.
When I refer to WoW's simplicity, I mean in the terms of gameplay mechanics, from combat to crafting. Unless they change, I probably won't come back. But, I'm only one sub, WoW is wildly popular for a reason. It's accesible, the game I want wouldn't be and I don't expect WoW to change for me.
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Telthalion Rohircil - Guardian - Elemandir - Lord of The Rings Online
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== RIP == Torey - Commando - Orion - Tabula Rasa == RIP ==
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Jordaniel Torey - Navy Megathron, Active Armor Tank - Tranquility - EVE Online
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Torey Scott - Rifleman - Fallen Earth
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"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but I know World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
i just cant afford wow anymore let alone the new game coming out maybe in 2 year when recession is finish but for now ill concentrate on trying to keep a roof over our head and food on the table
my friends and i will play f2p in the future
This post was a classic example of why the OP's 'solution' is a non starter from the off, simply because you cannot please all of the people no matter what you do and even if you did cater to even a small minority there is gonna be another minority group that feels left out.
Blizzard have a direction for the game and for those that have said "so many people want" or "lots of people want" well that isn't really true now is it as the numbers say differently for the time being at least. As for the "Blizzard doesn't listen" quotes, well again that is far from the truth as that is why the game has gone in the casual direction it has for so long as they are the majority audience.
Yes they have made some decisions that have been unpopular with some small groups of people, but until they make an almighty balls up of something that loses them 20% of their casual crowd, don't expect any major changes or bending to minority whims.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
WoW is at a perfect difficulty.
You basically have to be a yellow bus riding helmet wearer not to atleast do all the 10 man content in Current WoW.
Tbh the population playing WoW like it that way.
If blizzard even gave those players a harder option the community would implode all over the forums.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
What the OP is asking for isn't even harder, he just wants everything slower.
"Such servers would offer less drops in raids , make epics harder to achieve and offer slower leveling ."
Why? People already complain about grinding and you want it to take longer? I have no doubt it is such a small minority that wants longer grinds that Blizzard wouldn't care what you do.
The handful of people who want a FFA PVP server, or pre-60 servers, or super hard mode servers are not Blizzards customers, or atleast they are so small in numbers that.. and yes this might be harsh but its business after all.. they dont find it worth the time/money to do such servers.
No company, big or small can satisfy every one, and like it not they cannot satisfy the handful that want other server types, I hate to point to numbers but millions seem rather happy with the state of play in wow at the moment.
As to listening to customers, blizzard are amoung the best when it comes to that.
I'm willing to bet the number is more than a handful, and I'll even venture to say once WOW's subs start to drop, they'll be more receptive to alternate rules servers.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The handful of people who want a FFA PVP server, or pre-60 servers, or super hard mode servers are not Blizzards customers, or atleast they are so small in numbers that.. and yes this might be harsh but its business after all.. they dont find it worth the time/money to do such servers.
No company, big or small can satisfy every one, and like it not they cannot satisfy the handful that want other server types, I hate to point to numbers but millions seem rather happy with the state of play in wow at the moment.
As to listening to customers, blizzard are amoung the best when it comes to that.
I'm willing to bet the number is more than a handful, and I'll even venture to say once WOW's subs start to drop, they'll be more receptive to alternate rules servers.
I think your right . Eventually it will happen because it makes good financial sence . This is something that needs to happen . If it does not . Warcraft will implode .
Theres a saying . The bigger they are the harder they fall .
How would you know : you don't even play the game anymore and have no idea about Ulduar.
Pugs doing Ulduar in 25 men Raids.:)))
Yeah sure, with their mouths but not showing on their armory.
I can fully imagine you are frustrated by WOW, seeing all those WOW posts.
But hey Blizzard doens't listen to ex players. Get over it.
Wow was never better for its current players, and you don't belong here anymore.
I can't help it either.
))
I've said over and over that my brother plays WoW and lives in my house.
I've healed both a Guild ran 10 man of uldar and Pugged the 25 man version.
His resto shaman has only been 80 for a short while and is doing quite well in endgame raids.
[Mod Edit: removed references to account sharing]
Zorn I don;t slam games I havent atleast tried.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
The handful of people who want a FFA PVP server, or pre-60 servers, or super hard mode servers are not Blizzards customers, or atleast they are so small in numbers that.. and yes this might be harsh but its business after all.. they dont find it worth the time/money to do such servers.
No company, big or small can satisfy every one, and like it not they cannot satisfy the handful that want other server types, I hate to point to numbers but millions seem rather happy with the state of play in wow at the moment.
As to listening to customers, blizzard are amoung the best when it comes to that.
I'm willing to bet the number is more than a handful, and I'll even venture to say once WOW's subs start to drop, they'll be more receptive to alternate rules servers.
This is what I don't get. WOW has been incredibly successful from doing things the right way. Check Amazon.com WOW battlechest is STILL in the top 20 of pc games sold. My server, Fenris, is very average, yet we still have queues on fri and sat nights and on weeknights after a patch.
I don't think anyone should be giving Blizzard 'advice' on how to treat their customers. Look at AOC, WAR, Darkfall and tell me which business model YOU would want to follow.
I think Ulduar was a step in the right direction but a little too late for me. Im done, not because of ease of the content but Ive just played for way too long .... I need something new.
Googajoob keeps saying that WoW is too easy so it will appeal to "very young kids".
Me wanting to see his character has nothing to do with "e-peen" or anything like that, I want to know if he actually made progress through the content he says is too easy and dumbed down for kids.
He admitted that he played WoW for 4 years so substantial experience with the high end content would be no problem at all for someone like him.
If he was able to prove that he was a high level player then I would take him more seriously. Well, that and if he stopped saying WoW is meant for very young kids. That type of ignorance is why I call his motivations into question.
I think Ulduar was a step in the right direction but a little too late for me. Im done, not because of ease of the content but Ive just played for way too long .... I need something new.
Googajoob keeps saying that WoW is too easy so it will appeal to "very young kids".
Me wanting to see his character has nothing to do with "e-peen" or anything like that, I want to know if he actually made progress through the content he says is too easy and dumbed down for kids.
He admitted that he played WoW for 4 years so substantial experience with the high end content would be no problem at all for someone like him.
If he was able to prove that he was a high level player then I would take him more seriously. Well, that and if he stopped saying WoW is meant for very young kids. That type of ignorance is why I call his motivations into question.
I think Blizzard wanted to make WoW easier so it would appeal to a certain target market which they were not retaining a couple of years ago . A lot of people like to play the game as a family and have multiple accounts . Blizzard recognised this and made a commerical decision to make a the majority of the games content easier . This is undeniable . Look at the evidence . Leveling that is one third faster than it used to be . Less experiance in the battleground needed to achieve an epic item Even the dual class thing means that you can now have a pve and pvp spec on the same character .I was in a pretty good guild and a 25 man run presented us with little problem . They are fun but they only offer very limited challenge one you ve done them once or twice .
What i would like to see you do Xiaoki is to post the names of your characters so we can tell if you know what your talking about as well . You seam anxious to get someone else to put thier information for all to see in these forums . Lead the way .
PUT UP OR SHUT UP .
I think Blizzard wanted to make WoW easier so it would appeal to a certain target market which they were not retaining a couple of years ago . A lot of people like to play the game as a family and have multiple accounts . Blizzard recognised this and made a commerical decision to make a the majority of the games content easier . This is undeniable . Look at the evidence . Leveling that is one third faster than it used to be . Less experiance in the battleground needed to achieve an epic item Even the dual class thing means that you can now have a pve and pvp spec on the same character .I was in a pretty good guild and a 25 man run presented us with little problem . They are fun but they only offer very limited challenge one you ve done them once or twice .
What i would like to see you do Xiaoki is to post the names of your characters so we can tell if you know what your talking about as well . You seam anxious to get someone else to put thier information for all to see in these forums . Lead the way .
PUT UP OR SHUT UP .
That isn't really an accurate measurement. Someone could have been through the content and still think the game is easy. A better question is to have them compare something else. Saying WoW is easy implies another MMORPG is hard. Well, what MMORPG, and what is hard about it? That is the proper question. Yet to see anyone answer it with a valid response to date.
I think Ulduar was a step in the right direction but a little too late for me. Im done, not because of ease of the content but Ive just played for way too long .... I need something new.
Googajoob keeps saying that WoW is too easy so it will appeal to "very young kids".
Me wanting to see his character has nothing to do with "e-peen" or anything like that, I want to know if he actually made progress through the content he says is too easy and dumbed down for kids.
He admitted that he played WoW for 4 years so substantial experience with the high end content would be no problem at all for someone like him.
If he was able to prove that he was a high level player then I would take him more seriously. Well, that and if he stopped saying WoW is meant for very young kids. That type of ignorance is why I call his motivations into question.
Reading the OPs post it seams to be framed as a question . Its an invitation to talk about the subject . If you look these forums are full of people that say WoW is too easy for them now . Waracft success it souly down to a lack of competition . All mmorpgs have failed to offer mass appeal . But remember WoW had mass appeal before they made it easier . Its continued success can be put down to the fact that theres a lot of children in the world that find it more accessable to them .
If there were advanced servers you would not feel the need to come into these forums and defend your choice of game against trolls . You could just point to the fact there were advanced servers . No one would make you play on it would be your choice . Whats the problem with having more choice in how you play the game ?
Say advanced servers brought back even half a million players there would still be a huge prophet to be made from them . or say they retain older players even six months longer its still a good idea . As other have pointed out this would not be an overly expensive thing to do . The rewards could be great .
If they do not work Blizzard could easily get rid of them . But what if they do . WoWs success and dominance of the market may last a few years longer than it would other wise .
WoW cannot dominate the market forever . You would have to be stupid beyond all belief to think it will . All games have a shelf life even mmos . WoW can really only hope to maintain its current levels for 2-4 years at best .
Although it think the game will still be in active in a decade from now and proberbly will still be able to boast over a million players even then .
To argue against more choice makes no sence to me . I think all the OP has done is hurt a few peoples feelings because it makes then feel it lessens the achievments they make in game . So they react with anger rather than actually consider the benefits of the option of advanced gameplay .
All single player games offer different difficulty modes . I dont feel bad because i complete tomb raider on normal mode . Why should anyone feel that way if they play Warcraft on normal mode . ( if they ever do offer advanced servers which i think they will ) . Some people just like more of a challenge than others ,
Do you really want WoW to be thought of as the starter mmo in a few years time when there is some real competition to it ? . A place where people go for thier first mmo experiance before progressing onto other more difficult games . You see at present thats the way things are headed .
Advanced servers offer a solution to that .What a good idea .
No! It offers a solution to the niche of people that want that type of server!
What about the people that want WoW vanilla only servers, perma death servers, pure roleplay servers.......the list is endless as to the type of game various people want WoW to be. Does their view or opinion have less value than that of the OP or the particular group that would want 'advanced' servers? What if the first server still wasn't advanced enough for some, does Blizzard start another 'Advanced+' server to compensate for that??
I love your idea that Blizzard can just open a server, see if it works and just close it if it isn't popular, LOL. To be blunt, that just shows a complete misunderstanding of how development, support and business in general works. If Blizzard started sinking money and resources into random projects on the whim of a small minority of players, their shareholders would string them up at the next AGM.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
No! It offers a solution to the niche of people that want that type of server!
What about the people that want WoW vanilla only servers, perma death servers, pure roleplay servers.......the list is endless as to the type of game various people want WoW to be. Does their view or opinion have less value than that of the OP or the particular group that would want 'advanced' servers? What if the first server still wasn't advanced enough for some, does Blizzard start another 'Advanced+' server to compensate for that??
I love your idea that Blizzard can just open a server, see if it works and just close it if it isn't popular, LOL. To be blunt, that just shows a complete misunderstanding of how development, support and business in general works. If Blizzard started sinking money and resources into random projects on the whim of a small minority of players, their shareholders would string them up at the next AGM.
There is a huge difference between such niche servers as you mention and offering a hard mode for players that want more challenge .,THE biggest gripe people have against WoW is that its too easy . Also avanced servers would be pretty easy to impliment ( compared to say adult servers or classic servers ) and really are only an extention of what single player games offer already in allowing people to have a bit more of a chellenge if they wish it .
1. You make the assumption its a small minority . I would say from my experiance of talking to people ingame and from comments being made in various forums on various site online that there its significantly more than a small minority .
2. When WoWs subscription numbers start to fall ( and they will sooner or later ) Blizzard will have to identify why people are leaving . If it indeed becomes clear that they have made the game far too easy for a lot of player they will have to think about solutions . Advanced servers would offer that . That is how a successful buisness is run .
3. If they do indeed to start Advanced servers they proberbly would only start with a handful of them . Say only 10 percent of players wanted to play on them that would still be more tham enough to make them viable .
A good buisness model is always flexable and goes to show how limited your understanding of buisness is .
WoW will face more challenges from other games within the coming years its inevitable . They need to start thinking of ways to retain the current playerbase or bring back players they lose . The shareholders would be the first to demand Advanced servers if indeed if it becomes apparent that a major factor was the percieved ease of the game .
My gut instinct is that we will see something like them introduced to Warcraft in the coming years .
Actually, for reference, it isn't. Blizzard allows you to share accounts between parents and children (that meet certain criteria). Admittedly, in this case, he's still breaking the terms, but I just wanted to point it out in case anyone else is reading and gets the wrong idea.
A good business plan is flexible it is true, but only to the point where it falls within the overall business model, where it falls outside these lines it creates tension against the rest of the business and that is never good. Any deviation from the planned course of action will create unforseen cost/support/development and shareholder concerns.
You speak of my assumptions and then say "from my experience"? Well in that case if it makes it a more solid business decision foundation i will rephrase, "from my experience it is a minority of players!"
Again, you say "the biggest gripe" is too easy a game, other posts claim the biggest gripe is the community, others claim the biggest gripe is poor PvP, are you seeing the pattern??? If you cater for one minority request then you don't actually solve a problem, you create a rod for your own back as then all the other groups decide that they are being left out with their requests and the snowball starts it's inevitable roll downhill.
Go to any game forum and you will see people complaining about how their game should have had this, that or the other and they would have stayed. The changes to WoW made sense as the game became more and more weighted towards the top end and they wanted to ensure that even casual players could get a chance to sample the action up there. I have been at both ends of the spectrum on this as i have been around since release, i have never been much of a raider after my experiences in Vanilla WoW and BC never lit my fire for it either really, but Wrath has peaked my interest in raiding again, but i guess it wasn't for everyone.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
A good business plan is flexible it is true, but only to the point where it falls within the overall business model, where it falls outside these lines it creates tension against the rest of the business and that is never good. Any deviation from the planned course of action will create unforseen cost/support/development and shareholder concerns.
You speak of my assumptions and then say "from my experience"? Well in that case if it makes it a more solid business decision foundation i will rephrase, "from my experience it is a minority of players!"
Again, you say "the biggest gripe" is too easy a game, other posts claim the biggest gripe is the community, others claim the biggest gripe is poor PvP, are you seeing the pattern??? If you cater for one minority request then you don't actually solve a problem, you create a rod for your own back as then all the other groups decide that they are being left out with their requests and the snowball starts it's inevitable roll downhill.
Go to any game forum and you will see people complaining about how their game should have had this, that or the other and they would have stayed. The changes to WoW made sense as the game became more and more weighted towards the top end and they wanted to ensure that even casual players could get a chance to sample the action up there. I have been at both ends of the spectrum on this as i have been around since release, i have never been much of a raider after my experiences in Vanilla WoW and BC never lit my fire for it either really, but Wrath has peaked my interest in raiding again, but i guess it wasn't for everyon
I guess the only way we can tell how popular making the game more easy is at present is when Blizzard release their quarterly statement about subscription levels unfortunatly it appears theres not been one since December 2008 and its now nearly August 2009.
Even if they release a statement that they have lost 50% of subs, it will mean nothing in terms of your argument unless they also release a side note in that statement saying "all of these subs were lost because we made the game too easy!!!"
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Yep - he's right. If you start making blue cars then next thing you know people will be asking for red cars. And then green cars. And white cars. And metallic colours. It will never end...
It's much more sensible to stick to just making black cars. That will enable us to take full advantage of mass production techniques.
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Good modern businesses listen to their customers and respond.
The only reason Blizzard hasn't done so in this and similar cases is because they have such a strong, near monopoly, position, that they don't really have to put much effort into keeping people pleased .
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Everquest managed to implement several servers with variant rulesets - and Everquest works according to a much smaller budget than WoW.
So why can't WoW do it?
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And you might argue that a "hard-mode" server wouldn't be the most popular type. Maybe you're right.
But a good business would then go away, do it's research, talk to it's customers, and find out what the most popular new server type would be. It wouldn't just do nothing.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Basically this thread comes down to this.
I am hardcore gamer, I play 70 hours a week, therefore I should be able to beat 7 people at once in pvp who only play 10 hours a week.