This wouldn't stop twinks from going into a BG with non-twinks.
Take my old character for example, back when I used to play WoW. My rogue was twinked out pretty good. Very good gear after being ran through numerous instances and allowed to loot whatever I wanted, two purple daggers, lots of supplies, pots, tea, and so on.
Now let's say that I don't care about gaining XP. Nothing would have stopped me from taking my twinked out toon into the BG that gives exp and tearing through characters that haven't been twinked out. I could still do it, it would simply be limited to however much XP was left before my character leveled out of that BG.
Let's say that I go into the BG and my character's not at max level. If I'm fighting against characters that don't have the level of gear that my character has then I'm still at a significant advantage. I could plow through the non-twinked characters for a couple of levels, still interrupting their play, still unbalancing the fights, and still harvesting fairly easy honor points.
This change does nothing. It just means that my character would level along with everyone else. It does not ensure that maxed characters will not enter the same BGs as "normal" character. In fact, if they're just after easy honor points then why would they go into a BG where other players actually have an equal or otherwise fair chance? Big deal if they level. They'll still be "over geared" and thus more powerful than the characters in the next BG.
The only thing that this change is going to do is create /shouts and other public complaining about twinks and responses of "lol QQ more"... and yes, I remember that you can't talk to the other side.
I have yet to see a single MMO that includes PvP, that doesn't allow twinks and higher levels to prey on those less powerful. The developers of these games are just as much asshats as the jerks they give the perks to. There is no reason to allow a 10 level spread in PvP other than to provide fodder for the powerful. There is no more reason to allow twinking other than to create power rifts.
Stop paying subscriptions to games that allow this kind of behavior. Once developers see that their idea of fair play is wrong, they'll change their tune to a more profitable and fair one.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
All of the insults and flaming aside... This wouldn't stop twinks from going into a BG with non-twinks. Take my old character for example, back when I used to play WoW. My rogue was twinked out pretty good. Very good gear after being ran through numerous instances and allowed to loot whatever I wanted, two purple daggers, lots of supplies, pots, tea, and so on. Now let's say that I don't care about gaining XP. Nothing would have stopped me from taking my twinked out toon into the BG that gives exp and tearing through characters that haven't been twinked out. I could still do it, it would simply be limited to however much XP was left before my character leveled out of that BG. Let's say that I go into the BG and my character's not at max level. If I'm fighting against characters that don't have the level of gear that my character has then I'm still at a significant advantage. I could plow through the non-twinked characters for a couple of levels, still interrupting their play, still unbalancing the fights, and still harvesting fairly easy honor points. This change does nothing. It just means that my character would level along with everyone else. It does not ensure that maxed characters will not enter the same BGs as "normal" character. In fact, if they're just after easy honor points then why would they go into a BG where other players actually have an equal or otherwise fair chance? Big deal if they level. They'll still be "over geared" and thus more powerful than the characters in the next BG. The only thing that this change is going to do is create /shouts and other public complaining about twinks and responses of "lol QQ more"... and yes, I remember that you can't talk to the other side.
Wrong, that's because say you're a level 19 twink....soon as you hit 20 then guess what? Level 21+'s will already have better gear than you and you'll only be level 20 with twinked level 19 gear.....
Do that with each tier and suddenly your theory falls flat on it's face.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Are you delusional? The minute a twink goes to a non-exp capped BG and gains even 1 exp is the minute they level and that theory is shot to hell. Remember that you automatically join a group as soon as you step foot in a BG and gain exp at the same time you would gain honor points. Read my post. You make new twinks. Duh. You keep your old for xp off bgs. LOL! If no one caps no one gains xps!
It is sad to see the products of the public school system try to think and communicate. Read the post!! It will hep you to understand what I am trying to say!
So, is it fair to say that parents who seemed to have wasted their money for private schools for products that find rerolling and deleting toons(you get 10 slots) over and over again in a redundant, pointless quest to feel even a single sliver of self worth or to "pwn noobs", feel even sadder?
You know they have a word for people that like to repeat the same things over and over again thinking they will get different results when the obvious conculsion is having to reroll.....um....wait, wait...it's on the tip of my tongue...oh yeah right!
Insanity!
I play 80 bgs, 60 bgs, 29 bgs. I raid. I fish alot. I chat with my old Army buddies. I do a lot of things in WoW.
The main thesis of this post is," WoW thinks they can separate the wolves from the sheep, but they can't."
And then I explain how.
Who is looking for different results? Not me. One result lots of pvp.
This is where you lose your train of thought. You didn't focus on my thesis.
But i did address your thesis, there will be a significant separation due to the fact that most twinkers have specific builds, gear and skills that make their ability to twink work in each tier. These are not people that haphazardly create twinks to throw them away at the drop of a hat. A majority of these guys (I assume) take pride in their creations and would loath going through the process repeatedly.
So yes, your notion is flawed and irrational, but to think I could have a rational discussion among this crowd seems to slip my mind every time I log in.
By the way I use to play WoW for about 4 years myself, Rhomeo Mannaroth, but I quit. Although my wife is asking me to return, I'm actually enjoying my free AoC account and looking forward to a few more MMOs down the pipeline.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Anyone doubting the WOW player base is immature really need s to read this thread. I find it fascinating that people find their machismo in internet forums while talking about pwning noobs in a video game. Carry on by all means, i enjoy the humor of your seriousness of being uber awsome in Wsg.
It is rather amusing to see people trying to be all "badass" when their game of choice is... WOW.
ROFL
Please....stop...I find anyone who thinks that there is a difference in players who call themselves "badass" from one game to another rather foolish....don't you think?
All things being equal i would agree but in the case of WOW the reputation of appealing to immature children is well known and well deserved. Go to general chat sometime in any area at any given time. And with blizzard nerfing the game every few months with patches to make content even easier its going to continue to get worse. The WOW killer isnt a game its blizzard itself and the community it caters to.
Funny thing how your (and a few pessimist here) definition of WoW's reputation on these boards seems to have you believing it has any weight to it. Rather than believing that the fact of the matter is, you nor anyone else here has anything even remotely factual to prove your case.
And a snapshot of chat windows in any given game is not a end-all, be-all of age determination for it's players.....grow up.
I dont care enough about WOW, the player base or whether you believe what i say to install the game and pay $15 to take a shot of chat. Anyone who plays or has played this game has had the pleasure of seeing the immature player base in general chat. I would presume you take part in that chat from the fact you deny the presence of such elements. WOW's reputation is what the community has made of it and if you read other boards or play any other MMO's you know the "your mom" and "Chuck Norris" nonsense is infamous in the MMO gaming community.
Interesting, you could can less about the WoW player base or if I believe in what you say, but you continue to adamantly try to push your version of WoW's community in my psyche? For the record, no where in my replies did I even attempt to repute your misguided beliefs of the immaturity level of some of it's players, I merely wanted to point out that your logic of thinking WoW's reputation is build on the assumption that it's actively seeking to appeal to children is flawed. Which in it's self reeks of so much blind disgust for the game, that it taints your ability to make a level headed comment.
And in your attempt to rally behind the condescending attitude of many of these very board users about the games people choose to play, the only thing you've actually proved is how very immature the community here can act.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
WoW, Blizzard is trying to rip yet another MMO..... soon everyone will be calling this an innovation.
Wow stupid people keep surprising me yet ones again. Blizzard is not ripping of mmo, they take bacis of an idea and polish it and add new stuff with style. Which is why they never fail. You will see. So every Car is a copy of T-Ford? And every 3D mmo is a copy or ripoff from EQ?
Anyone doubting the WOW player base is immature really need s to read this thread. I find it fascinating that people find their machismo in internet forums while talking about pwning noobs in a video game. Carry on by all means, i enjoy the humor of your seriousness of being uber awsome in Wsg.
It is rather amusing to see people trying to be all "badass" when their game of choice is... WOW.
ROFL
Please....stop...I find anyone who thinks that there is a difference in players who call themselves "badass" from one game to another rather foolish....don't you think?
All things being equal i would agree but in the case of WOW the reputation of appealing to immature children is well known and well deserved. Go to general chat sometime in any area at any given time. And with blizzard nerfing the game every few months with patches to make content even easier its going to continue to get worse. The WOW killer isnt a game its blizzard itself and the community it caters to.
Funny thing how your (and a few pessimist here) definition of WoW's reputation on these boards seems to have you believing it has any weight to it. Rather than believing that the fact of the matter is, you nor anyone else here has anything even remotely factual to prove your case.
And a snapshot of chat windows in any given game is not a end-all, be-all of age determination for it's players.....grow up.
I dont care enough about WOW, the player base or whether you believe what i say to install the game and pay $15 to take a shot of chat. Anyone who plays or has played this game has had the pleasure of seeing the immature player base in general chat. I would presume you take part in that chat from the fact you deny the presence of such elements. WOW's reputation is what the community has made of it and if you read other boards or play any other MMO's you know the "your mom" and "Chuck Norris" nonsense is infamous in the MMO gaming community.
Interesting, you could can less about the WoW player base or if I believe in what you say, but you continue to adamantly try to push your version of WoW's community in my psyche? For the record, no where in my replies did I even attempt to repute your misguided beliefs of the immaturity level of some of it's players, I merely wanted to point out that your logic of thinking WoW's reputation is build on the assumption that it's actively seeking to appeal to children is flawed. Which in it's self reeks of so much blind disgust for the game, that it taints your ability to make a level headed comment.
And in your attempt to rally behind the condescending attitude of many of these very board users about the games people choose to play, the only thing you've actually proved is how very immature the community here can act.
I do not feel the need to convince anyone about the immaturity of the WOW player base. The maturity level of the WOW player base is legendary. And if you had read my post before allowing your vision to be blurred by the need to defend your game you would have seen where i stated that its not only these boards where WOW is known to be infested with immature people. Play any MMO and ask in general if anyone has played WOW and read the remarks, even other people playing WOW will comment on it as well. But dont take my word for it , me and all others who find fault are just cookie hunting trolls that hate WOW because its so wonderful.
I do not feel the need to convince anyone about the immaturity of the WOW player base. The maturity level of the WOW player base is legendary. And if you had read my post before allowing your vision to be blurred by the need to defend your game you would have seen where i stated that its not only these boards where WOW is known to be infested with immature people. Play any MMO and ask in general if anyone has played WOW and read the remarks, even other people playing WOW will comment on it as well. But dont take my word for it , me and all others who find fault are just cookie hunting trolls that hate WOW because its so wonderful.
You're kidding right?
The maturity of the WoW player base varies, much like these boards. To blindly generalize about the entire community based on some is ignorant and foolish. Every community has people that are immature. Since WoW is so popular of course they have a higher number and get more attention.
Your play an MMO and ask about WoW would be even better proof. It brings out immature players in those games, usually blind wow haters.
I do not feel the need to convince anyone about the immaturity of the WOW player base. The maturity level of the WOW player base is legendary. And if you had read my post before allowing your vision to be blurred by the need to defend your game you would have seen where i stated that its not only these boards where WOW is known to be infested with immature people. Play any MMO and ask in general if anyone has played WOW and read the remarks, even other people playing WOW will comment on it as well. But dont take my word for it , me and all others who find fault are just cookie hunting trolls that hate WOW because its so wonderful.
You're kidding right?
The maturity of the WoW player base varies, much like these boards. To blindly generalize about the entire community based on some is ignorant and foolish. Every community has people that are immature. Since WoW is so popular of course they have a higher number and get more attention.
Your play an MMO and ask about WoW would be even better proof. It brings out immature players in those games, usually blind wow haters.
But on average you would have to agree WoW has the worst community of players in any MMO, no one can doubt this if you have played the game. I just hope they don't all run to aion when they find out that it's a far superior game, like they have done in the asian market.
Alot of clowns on this site whine just about everything god dman thign they can. Its just turned into to one big whining bitch clown forum.
Lol whining about whiners, lol self-owned.
Also I never saw the value in twinks. Can someone explain to me the fun in twinks?
I think you need to be a complete ****er to understand the fun in twinks. I gave up trying.
However, just to defend WoW a bit - none of this is new. In EQ1 people would level up to 50, gear up and then delevel back to 15 or whatever keeping all the gear and level 50 skills plus the smacktalk on the PvP servers was much worse than Barrens chat.
-- Suckyranger(15) hits DeleveledUberTwinkW***er(15) for 1 pt of damage.
-- DeleveledUberTwinkW***er(15) hits Suckyranger(15) for a gazillion pts of damage.
It's not so much what they do but the smacktalk after - it's the game equivalent of beating up a little kid and then bragging over it.
The trouble is you can't fight them without becoming like them i.e you also have to try and think in terms of creating zero risk even though it's just pixels. Every time i've tried to do that I've felt so scuzzy I had to stop.
You're kidding right? The maturity of the WoW player base varies, much like these boards. To blindly generalize about the entire community based on some is ignorant and foolish. Every community has people that are immature. Since WoW is so popular of course they have a higher number and get more attention. Your play an MMO and ask about WoW would be even better proof. It brings out immature players in those games, usually blind wow haters. It ALSO, brings out the players who feel WOW has done a disservice to the Genre, has added or enlarged portions of the genre that ruin community. You assume that many people who dislike or hate wow have never played wow.
they're good changes but twinking is pretty lame. I can see it from the perspective of the twinker it's fun twinking, but the low level BGs are twink-grounds. I have always thought there should be an x amount of xp/honor you can earn in a BG level-range before being divided into a second bracket. Admittedly it might dwindle numbers and increases waiting time though.
Thanks for reinforcing what I already suspected about twinkers, most are cowards how want to be the big boy on the block. Too bad your twinking doesn't extend to real life, where you are probably a weakling, both physically and of will. If you can't be a bully in real life, why not be a bully in a game eh? You don't have to worry about anyone getting back at you because there is no way to get back besides twinking themselves, and they don't want to waste their time, so they quit doing low level BGs. Blizzard wants people to continue playing WoW, and people like you drive them away. All I can say is get to 80 where the real PvP'ers are, you probably get roflstomped due to lack of skill, which you make up for with gear when you twink.
You know I have twinked a few toons and most of them I just leveled. I still managed top 4 finished with a level 19 29 enhancement shaman with crappy gear and a shield. I have a hunter with quest greens getting top 3 on a regular basis and recently got 4th to 5th place with a level 33 warlock in the 39 bracket while i was just getting honor out of boredom. Now heres my problem, most of the people like you always blame the gear but no matter how good your gear is you still can barely make next to last on the kill list and are usually too scared to leave the graveyard or flag room or whatnot. Also usually the first people to yell to just give up its not worth it, or you guys hurry up and win i have to go somewhere kind of crap.
See other players with some aptitude for the game no matter the gear level will kill you sometimes, the reason there is no way for some one like you to get sweet revenge is that nine times out of ten you dont hotkey, you keyboard turn, you get scared and keyboard smash. Now I wont lie I am currently twinking a warlock for the 39 bracket just in time for 3.2 in which case im turning exp off to get the hell away from spineless worms like yourself. And while my games will be competitive to be sure, at least some sniveling bottom feeder wont be in the background buzzing in my ear to just give up it's too hard.
As for 80 pvp which you probably have no idea about, where do you think people get twinks from.. most are bored 80s who already have either done all the raiding they want to do, or already have done arena. Why do you think its soo easy for us to beat the crap out of you?
I do not feel the need to convince anyone about the immaturity of the WOW player base. The maturity level of the WOW player base is legendary. And if you had read my post before allowing your vision to be blurred by the need to defend your game you would have seen where i stated that its not only these boards where WOW is known to be infested with immature people. Play any MMO and ask in general if anyone has played WOW and read the remarks, even other people playing WOW will comment on it as well. But dont take my word for it , me and all others who find fault are just cookie hunting trolls that hate WOW because its so wonderful.
You're kidding right?
The maturity of the WoW player base varies, much like these boards. To blindly generalize about the entire community based on some is ignorant and foolish. Every community has people that are immature. Since WoW is so popular of course they have a higher number and get more attention.
Your play an MMO and ask about WoW would be even better proof. It brings out immature players in those games, usually blind wow haters.
But on average you would have to agree WoW has the worst community of players in any MMO, no one can doubt this if you have played the game. I just hope they don't all run to aion when they find out that it's a far superior game, like they have done in the asian market.
Actually I think the community is ok, but I have been around long enough to see some really bad communities. Like many free to play games just for example.
I saw the community in ultima online which was so horrible to players that it forced Origins to change the core mechanics of the game, because griefing was so out of hand it was actually affecting their ability to draw in new players.
I saw how toxic the everquest community was that it forced SOE to design and implement a set of rules call "the play nice policy". How bad must a community be for a company to make such a thing. If anyone was around before eqvault actually started enforcing the forum rules would remember just how toxic that community was.
I laugh when people get their panties in a bunch over chuck norris jokes and cry about how bad the community is. It is just sad how thin skinned some people are these days. They have no idea what a bad community is, like when one guild purposefully kills the sleeper just to cock block the progression of all the guilds below themselves. To have a gang of players exploit a bug and clean out all of your belongings from your house stealing months/years of work.
To listen to people moan about a community laughing over something as trivial as chuck norris jokes is just sad in comparison.
As for grandpagamers suggestion, let anyone try it. Go ask in any mmo about wow and watch the comments. Then really listen to the tone and words used. Maybe even try suggesting you like wow over the game you are in and watch the community turn into a 5 headed hydra of hate and bile.
Bigger communities offer safe refuge for asshats to blend in. Small communities become elitiest hive minded jackasses to anyone who doesn't conform. Every games has its community problems that fall somewhere on that scale. Be it an extreme or somewhere in the middle, mmo players are the same everywhere. It is not limited to just 1 game.
WoW, Blizzard is trying to rip yet another MMO..... soon everyone will be calling this an innovation.
Wow stupid people keep surprising me yet ones again. Blizzard is not ripping of mmo, they take bacis of an idea and polish it and add new stuff with style. Which is why they never fail. You will see. So every Car is a copy of T-Ford? And every 3D mmo is a copy or ripoff from EQ?
I get tired of the silly word "polish" to describe MMOs.
Alot of clowns on this site whine just about everything god dman thign they can. Its just turned into to one big whining bitch clown forum.
Lol whining about whiners, lol self-owned.
Also I never saw the value in twinks. Can someone explain to me the fun in twinks?
I think you need to be a complete ****er to understand the fun in twinks. I gave up trying.
However, just to defend WoW a bit - none of this is new. In EQ1 people would level up to 50, gear up and then delevel back to 15 or whatever keeping all the gear and level 50 skills plus the smacktalk on the PvP servers was much worse than Barrens chat.
-- Suckyranger(15) hits DeleveledUberTwinkW***er(15) for 1 pt of damage.
-- DeleveledUberTwinkW***er(15) hits Suckyranger(15) for a gazillion pts of damage.
It's not so much what they do but the smacktalk after - it's the game equivalent of beating up a little kid and then bragging over it.
The trouble is you can't fight them without becoming like them i.e you also have to try and think in terms of creating zero risk even though it's just pixels. Every time i've tried to do that I've felt so scuzzy I had to stop.
I don't care for WoW either but I have to agree with this fella. Really it isn't World of Warcraft that brings out this childish immature behaviour. I am starting to believe in any PvP game you are going to have a pretty bad community unless there are penalties to PvPing such as in Lineage 2 or Ultima Online.
So yes I believe WoW's community is pretty bad but its not just because it is WoW. I believe it is because of a system that allows griefing with no consequences.
You're kidding right? The maturity of the WoW player base varies, much like these boards. To blindly generalize about the entire community based on some is ignorant and foolish. Every community has people that are immature. Since WoW is so popular of course they have a higher number and get more attention. Your play an MMO and ask about WoW would be even better proof. It brings out immature players in those games, usually blind wow haters. It ALSO, brings out the players who feel WOW has done a disservice to the Genre, has added or enlarged portions of the genre that ruin community. You assume that many people who dislike or hate wow have never played wow.
Key word being feel, as in opinion. What people feel WoW has done is irrelavent and I'm sure many people including myself, feel it improved MMOs . Fact is they expanded the market so more companies are willing to spend money on MMO projects.
Edit: spelling and want to add something. If one person feels a game has done a disservice then avoid it and games like it, they can keep playing whatever they want. That person doesn't get to choose for others though. Some stay, some leave. Those that leave, do so because something else interests them.
Also if enough of the market feels the way you do someone is going to cater to your needs. Expecting priority though when you aren't the largest market is foolish.
Ok first of all it is a game, on a general level why do people enjoy pvp? It is fun to beat other people at a game.
Next, why do people hate twinks? Because they are seemingly impossible to kill, this takes away the possibility of winning and beating them at the game. I.e. no more fun since you are stuck as the loser.
This situation breeds the mentality that people who play twinks suck, they have no lives, and they do it just so they can feel better about themselves. Well what are you actually trying to achieve in this game, to kill another person, and that is what makes it fun, so twinks are made so they can have fun, sadly it then isn't fun for people who are stuck being dominated but grow up it is a game, and they just are better at it because they found a away to get better gear than you in the first place and therefore are a better player at the game, not worse as people so claim. All you have to do is level to 80 and then make your own twink and then you can have fun too.
But in the long run any way twinks aren't going to fix the pvp problem, say they eliminate twinks, well they some class is going to still stand out and be better than the rest, then guess what anyone who plays that class is a tard, etc. etc. etc. The reality is this game will never be fair and balance innless for some reason blizzard eliminated every other class than warriors, and not one was allowed to have any different gear or abilities, suddenly it is perfectly fair and completely skill based but guess what it is fun anymore. The only reason anyone enjoys pvp is because of the advantage they have, whether it is a twink or one class over another it is the same thing.
I also find the argument that it takes skill to pvp at 80 and it is fair and balance at 80 a laughable one. At 80 you just get put into a forced twinking situation. A twink is a character that is or has obtained the best gear possible for its level. At 80 all you do is pvp to gain honor, and/or arena points (through arena pvp obviously), to get the best gear possible at your level to help you "pwn noobs". I don’t see any difference in this situation where you place opponents with the top end arena gear vs. a team with; let’s just say for argument reasons, Blue crafted pvp items, typical of people who just turned 80. They have no chance of wining and it is not dependent on skill at all, if the team with the far superior gear isn't face rolling on their keyboard they have a much better chance at winning. They characters are just blatantly stronger, now the degree to which they are stronger may not be as much as a twink vs. a toon just leveling but it is still bad.
Overall it just comes down to people complaining about pvp in general. The sad fact is if someone puts more time into this game then you do they are going to have an advantage, twinks aren't easy to make, and neither is getting the best gear at 80, this game is not fair and balanced and it can't be, other wise it wouldn't be any fun.
I really wish WoW players would stop misusing the word twink. Twink
An attractive, boyish-looking, young gay man. The stereotypical twink is 18-22, slender with little or no body hair, often blonde, dresses in club wear even at 10:00 AM, and is not particularly intelligent. A twink is the gay answer to the blonde bimbo cheerleader. And WoW has been lame for 3 years why are you still playing it?
I think your definition fits the WoW player that takes the actions the OP suggests very well. (Minus the attractive part)
Ok first of all it is a game, on a general level why do people enjoy pvp? It is fun to beat other people at a game.
Next, why do people hate twinks? Because they are seemingly impossible to kill, this takes away the possibility of winning and beating them at the game. I.e. no more fun since you are stuck as the loser.
This situation breeds the mentality that people who play twinks suck, they have no lives, and they do it just so they can feel better about themselves. Well what are you actually trying to achieve in this game, to kill another person, and that is what makes it fun, so twinks are made so they can have fun, sadly it then isn't fun for people who are stuck being dominated but grow up it is a game, and they just are better at it because they found a away to get better gear than you in the first place and therefore are a better player at the game, not worse as people so claim. All you have to do is level to 80 and then make your own twink and then you can have fun too.
But in the long run any way twinks aren't going to fix the pvp problem, say they eliminate twinks, well they some class is going to still stand out and be better than the rest, then guess what anyone who plays that class is a tard, etc. etc. etc. The reality is this game will never be fair and balance innless for some reason blizzard eliminated every other class than warriors, and not one was allowed to have any different gear or abilities, suddenly it is perfectly fair and completely skill based but guess what it is fun anymore. The only reason anyone enjoys pvp is because of the advantage they have, whether it is a twink or one class over another it is the same thing.
I also find the argument that it takes skill to pvp at 80 and it is fair and balance at 80 a laughable one. At 80 you just get put into a forced twinking situation. A twink is a character that is or has obtained the best gear possible for its level. At 80 all you do is pvp to gain honor, and/or arena points (through arena pvp obviously), to get the best gear possible at your level to help you "pwn noobs". I don’t see any difference in this situation where you place opponents with the top end arena gear vs. a team with; let’s just say for argument reasons, Blue crafted pvp items, typical of people who just turned 80. They have no chance of wining and it is not dependent on skill at all, if the team with the far superior gear isn't face rolling on their keyboard they have a much better chance at winning. They characters are just blatantly stronger, now the degree to which they are stronger may not be as much as a twink vs. a toon just leveling but it is still bad.
Overall it just comes down to people complaining about pvp in general. The sad fact is if someone puts more time into this game then you do they are going to have an advantage, twinks aren't easy to make, and neither is getting the best gear at 80, this game is not fair and balanced and it can't be, other wise it wouldn't be any fun.
He gets it! This guy gets it!!
Winning is fun. Messing with Blizz is fun!! Losing is a drag!! Jumping through Blizzard's hoops is a drag.
You know hwat made me make my first twink? Getting pwned by a twink. I was such a noob in 2005. I asked my friends what happened they said he has the best gear you can get so he won. I HAD to beat that guy, and I did. How is that different than working to beat a boss. I think it is better because the boss is an AI and they twink I pwned is infinelty smarter and harder to kill.
Comments
Jack Nicholson?
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
That is the basis of WoW's Pvp system, just because he's stating he's one of "Those" people doesn't change anything.
All of the insults and flaming aside...
This wouldn't stop twinks from going into a BG with non-twinks.
Take my old character for example, back when I used to play WoW. My rogue was twinked out pretty good. Very good gear after being ran through numerous instances and allowed to loot whatever I wanted, two purple daggers, lots of supplies, pots, tea, and so on.
Now let's say that I don't care about gaining XP. Nothing would have stopped me from taking my twinked out toon into the BG that gives exp and tearing through characters that haven't been twinked out. I could still do it, it would simply be limited to however much XP was left before my character leveled out of that BG.
Let's say that I go into the BG and my character's not at max level. If I'm fighting against characters that don't have the level of gear that my character has then I'm still at a significant advantage. I could plow through the non-twinked characters for a couple of levels, still interrupting their play, still unbalancing the fights, and still harvesting fairly easy honor points.
This change does nothing. It just means that my character would level along with everyone else. It does not ensure that maxed characters will not enter the same BGs as "normal" character. In fact, if they're just after easy honor points then why would they go into a BG where other players actually have an equal or otherwise fair chance? Big deal if they level. They'll still be "over geared" and thus more powerful than the characters in the next BG.
The only thing that this change is going to do is create /shouts and other public complaining about twinks and responses of "lol QQ more"... and yes, I remember that you can't talk to the other side.
I have yet to see a single MMO that includes PvP, that doesn't allow twinks and higher levels to prey on those less powerful. The developers of these games are just as much asshats as the jerks they give the perks to. There is no reason to allow a 10 level spread in PvP other than to provide fodder for the powerful. There is no more reason to allow twinking other than to create power rifts.
Stop paying subscriptions to games that allow this kind of behavior. Once developers see that their idea of fair play is wrong, they'll change their tune to a more profitable and fair one.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Wrong, that's because say you're a level 19 twink....soon as you hit 20 then guess what? Level 21+'s will already have better gear than you and you'll only be level 20 with twinked level 19 gear.....
Do that with each tier and suddenly your theory falls flat on it's face.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
So, is it fair to say that parents who seemed to have wasted their money for private schools for products that find rerolling and deleting toons(you get 10 slots) over and over again in a redundant, pointless quest to feel even a single sliver of self worth or to "pwn noobs", feel even sadder?
You know they have a word for people that like to repeat the same things over and over again thinking they will get different results when the obvious conculsion is having to reroll.....um....wait, wait...it's on the tip of my tongue...oh yeah right!
Insanity!
I play 80 bgs, 60 bgs, 29 bgs. I raid. I fish alot. I chat with my old Army buddies. I do a lot of things in WoW.
The main thesis of this post is," WoW thinks they can separate the wolves from the sheep, but they can't."
And then I explain how.
Who is looking for different results? Not me. One result lots of pvp.
This is where you lose your train of thought. You didn't focus on my thesis.
But i did address your thesis, there will be a significant separation due to the fact that most twinkers have specific builds, gear and skills that make their ability to twink work in each tier. These are not people that haphazardly create twinks to throw them away at the drop of a hat. A majority of these guys (I assume) take pride in their creations and would loath going through the process repeatedly.
So yes, your notion is flawed and irrational, but to think I could have a rational discussion among this crowd seems to slip my mind every time I log in.
By the way I use to play WoW for about 4 years myself, Rhomeo Mannaroth, but I quit. Although my wife is asking me to return, I'm actually enjoying my free AoC account and looking forward to a few more MMOs down the pipeline.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
It is rather amusing to see people trying to be all "badass" when their game of choice is... WOW.
ROFL
Please....stop...I find anyone who thinks that there is a difference in players who call themselves "badass" from one game to another rather foolish....don't you think?
All things being equal i would agree but in the case of WOW the reputation of appealing to immature children is well known and well deserved. Go to general chat sometime in any area at any given time. And with blizzard nerfing the game every few months with patches to make content even easier its going to continue to get worse. The WOW killer isnt a game its blizzard itself and the community it caters to.
Funny thing how your (and a few pessimist here) definition of WoW's reputation on these boards seems to have you believing it has any weight to it. Rather than believing that the fact of the matter is, you nor anyone else here has anything even remotely factual to prove your case.
And a snapshot of chat windows in any given game is not a end-all, be-all of age determination for it's players.....grow up.
I dont care enough about WOW, the player base or whether you believe what i say to install the game and pay $15 to take a shot of chat. Anyone who plays or has played this game has had the pleasure of seeing the immature player base in general chat. I would presume you take part in that chat from the fact you deny the presence of such elements. WOW's reputation is what the community has made of it and if you read other boards or play any other MMO's you know the "your mom" and "Chuck Norris" nonsense is infamous in the MMO gaming community.
Interesting, you could can less about the WoW player base or if I believe in what you say, but you continue to adamantly try to push your version of WoW's community in my psyche? For the record, no where in my replies did I even attempt to repute your misguided beliefs of the immaturity level of some of it's players, I merely wanted to point out that your logic of thinking WoW's reputation is build on the assumption that it's actively seeking to appeal to children is flawed. Which in it's self reeks of so much blind disgust for the game, that it taints your ability to make a level headed comment.
And in your attempt to rally behind the condescending attitude of many of these very board users about the games people choose to play, the only thing you've actually proved is how very immature the community here can act.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Wow stupid people keep surprising me yet ones again. Blizzard is not ripping of mmo, they take bacis of an idea and polish it and add new stuff with style. Which is why they never fail. You will see. So every Car is a copy of T-Ford? And every 3D mmo is a copy or ripoff from EQ?
It is rather amusing to see people trying to be all "badass" when their game of choice is... WOW.
ROFL
Please....stop...I find anyone who thinks that there is a difference in players who call themselves "badass" from one game to another rather foolish....don't you think?
All things being equal i would agree but in the case of WOW the reputation of appealing to immature children is well known and well deserved. Go to general chat sometime in any area at any given time. And with blizzard nerfing the game every few months with patches to make content even easier its going to continue to get worse. The WOW killer isnt a game its blizzard itself and the community it caters to.
Funny thing how your (and a few pessimist here) definition of WoW's reputation on these boards seems to have you believing it has any weight to it. Rather than believing that the fact of the matter is, you nor anyone else here has anything even remotely factual to prove your case.
And a snapshot of chat windows in any given game is not a end-all, be-all of age determination for it's players.....grow up.
I dont care enough about WOW, the player base or whether you believe what i say to install the game and pay $15 to take a shot of chat. Anyone who plays or has played this game has had the pleasure of seeing the immature player base in general chat. I would presume you take part in that chat from the fact you deny the presence of such elements. WOW's reputation is what the community has made of it and if you read other boards or play any other MMO's you know the "your mom" and "Chuck Norris" nonsense is infamous in the MMO gaming community.
Interesting, you could can less about the WoW player base or if I believe in what you say, but you continue to adamantly try to push your version of WoW's community in my psyche? For the record, no where in my replies did I even attempt to repute your misguided beliefs of the immaturity level of some of it's players, I merely wanted to point out that your logic of thinking WoW's reputation is build on the assumption that it's actively seeking to appeal to children is flawed. Which in it's self reeks of so much blind disgust for the game, that it taints your ability to make a level headed comment.
And in your attempt to rally behind the condescending attitude of many of these very board users about the games people choose to play, the only thing you've actually proved is how very immature the community here can act.
I do not feel the need to convince anyone about the immaturity of the WOW player base. The maturity level of the WOW player base is legendary. And if you had read my post before allowing your vision to be blurred by the need to defend your game you would have seen where i stated that its not only these boards where WOW is known to be infested with immature people. Play any MMO and ask in general if anyone has played WOW and read the remarks, even other people playing WOW will comment on it as well. But dont take my word for it , me and all others who find fault are just cookie hunting trolls that hate WOW because its so wonderful.
I do not feel the need to convince anyone about the immaturity of the WOW player base. The maturity level of the WOW player base is legendary. And if you had read my post before allowing your vision to be blurred by the need to defend your game you would have seen where i stated that its not only these boards where WOW is known to be infested with immature people. Play any MMO and ask in general if anyone has played WOW and read the remarks, even other people playing WOW will comment on it as well. But dont take my word for it , me and all others who find fault are just cookie hunting trolls that hate WOW because its so wonderful.
You're kidding right?
The maturity of the WoW player base varies, much like these boards. To blindly generalize about the entire community based on some is ignorant and foolish. Every community has people that are immature. Since WoW is so popular of course they have a higher number and get more attention.
Your play an MMO and ask about WoW would be even better proof. It brings out immature players in those games, usually blind wow haters.
I do not feel the need to convince anyone about the immaturity of the WOW player base. The maturity level of the WOW player base is legendary. And if you had read my post before allowing your vision to be blurred by the need to defend your game you would have seen where i stated that its not only these boards where WOW is known to be infested with immature people. Play any MMO and ask in general if anyone has played WOW and read the remarks, even other people playing WOW will comment on it as well. But dont take my word for it , me and all others who find fault are just cookie hunting trolls that hate WOW because its so wonderful.
You're kidding right?
The maturity of the WoW player base varies, much like these boards. To blindly generalize about the entire community based on some is ignorant and foolish. Every community has people that are immature. Since WoW is so popular of course they have a higher number and get more attention.
Your play an MMO and ask about WoW would be even better proof. It brings out immature players in those games, usually blind wow haters.
But on average you would have to agree WoW has the worst community of players in any MMO, no one can doubt this if you have played the game. I just hope they don't all run to aion when they find out that it's a far superior game, like they have done in the asian market.
GW2 the future of MMO gaming
Lol whining about whiners, lol self-owned.
Also I never saw the value in twinks. Can someone explain to me the fun in twinks?
Trolls = Hardcore
Fanbois = Carebears
The only posts I read in threads are my own.
Lol whining about whiners, lol self-owned.
Also I never saw the value in twinks. Can someone explain to me the fun in twinks?
I think you need to be a complete ****er to understand the fun in twinks. I gave up trying.
However, just to defend WoW a bit - none of this is new. In EQ1 people would level up to 50, gear up and then delevel back to 15 or whatever keeping all the gear and level 50 skills plus the smacktalk on the PvP servers was much worse than Barrens chat.
-- Suckyranger(15) hits DeleveledUberTwinkW***er(15) for 1 pt of damage.
-- DeleveledUberTwinkW***er(15) hits Suckyranger(15) for a gazillion pts of damage.
It's not so much what they do but the smacktalk after - it's the game equivalent of beating up a little kid and then bragging over it.
The trouble is you can't fight them without becoming like them i.e you also have to try and think in terms of creating zero risk even though it's just pixels. Every time i've tried to do that I've felt so scuzzy I had to stop.
WoW pvp is lame. if the OP is helping Blizzard realize how lame it is quicker..then more power to him.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
they're good changes but twinking is pretty lame. I can see it from the perspective of the twinker it's fun twinking, but the low level BGs are twink-grounds. I have always thought there should be an x amount of xp/honor you can earn in a BG level-range before being divided into a second bracket. Admittedly it might dwindle numbers and increases waiting time though.
You know I have twinked a few toons and most of them I just leveled. I still managed top 4 finished with a level 19 29 enhancement shaman with crappy gear and a shield. I have a hunter with quest greens getting top 3 on a regular basis and recently got 4th to 5th place with a level 33 warlock in the 39 bracket while i was just getting honor out of boredom. Now heres my problem, most of the people like you always blame the gear but no matter how good your gear is you still can barely make next to last on the kill list and are usually too scared to leave the graveyard or flag room or whatnot. Also usually the first people to yell to just give up its not worth it, or you guys hurry up and win i have to go somewhere kind of crap.
See other players with some aptitude for the game no matter the gear level will kill you sometimes, the reason there is no way for some one like you to get sweet revenge is that nine times out of ten you dont hotkey, you keyboard turn, you get scared and keyboard smash. Now I wont lie I am currently twinking a warlock for the 39 bracket just in time for 3.2 in which case im turning exp off to get the hell away from spineless worms like yourself. And while my games will be competitive to be sure, at least some sniveling bottom feeder wont be in the background buzzing in my ear to just give up it's too hard.
As for 80 pvp which you probably have no idea about, where do you think people get twinks from.. most are bored 80s who already have either done all the raiding they want to do, or already have done arena. Why do you think its soo easy for us to beat the crap out of you?
Its not gear, its because you suck.
I do not feel the need to convince anyone about the immaturity of the WOW player base. The maturity level of the WOW player base is legendary. And if you had read my post before allowing your vision to be blurred by the need to defend your game you would have seen where i stated that its not only these boards where WOW is known to be infested with immature people. Play any MMO and ask in general if anyone has played WOW and read the remarks, even other people playing WOW will comment on it as well. But dont take my word for it , me and all others who find fault are just cookie hunting trolls that hate WOW because its so wonderful.
You're kidding right?
The maturity of the WoW player base varies, much like these boards. To blindly generalize about the entire community based on some is ignorant and foolish. Every community has people that are immature. Since WoW is so popular of course they have a higher number and get more attention.
Your play an MMO and ask about WoW would be even better proof. It brings out immature players in those games, usually blind wow haters.
But on average you would have to agree WoW has the worst community of players in any MMO, no one can doubt this if you have played the game. I just hope they don't all run to aion when they find out that it's a far superior game, like they have done in the asian market.
Actually I think the community is ok, but I have been around long enough to see some really bad communities. Like many free to play games just for example.
I saw the community in ultima online which was so horrible to players that it forced Origins to change the core mechanics of the game, because griefing was so out of hand it was actually affecting their ability to draw in new players.
I saw how toxic the everquest community was that it forced SOE to design and implement a set of rules call "the play nice policy". How bad must a community be for a company to make such a thing. If anyone was around before eqvault actually started enforcing the forum rules would remember just how toxic that community was.
I laugh when people get their panties in a bunch over chuck norris jokes and cry about how bad the community is. It is just sad how thin skinned some people are these days. They have no idea what a bad community is, like when one guild purposefully kills the sleeper just to cock block the progression of all the guilds below themselves. To have a gang of players exploit a bug and clean out all of your belongings from your house stealing months/years of work.
To listen to people moan about a community laughing over something as trivial as chuck norris jokes is just sad in comparison.
As for grandpagamers suggestion, let anyone try it. Go ask in any mmo about wow and watch the comments. Then really listen to the tone and words used. Maybe even try suggesting you like wow over the game you are in and watch the community turn into a 5 headed hydra of hate and bile.
Bigger communities offer safe refuge for asshats to blend in. Small communities become elitiest hive minded jackasses to anyone who doesn't conform. Every games has its community problems that fall somewhere on that scale. Be it an extreme or somewhere in the middle, mmo players are the same everywhere. It is not limited to just 1 game.
Hi, I saw this comment and I agree. The way you put it made me laugh, though.
Wow stupid people keep surprising me yet ones again. Blizzard is not ripping of mmo, they take bacis of an idea and polish it and add new stuff with style. Which is why they never fail. You will see. So every Car is a copy of T-Ford? And every 3D mmo is a copy or ripoff from EQ?
I get tired of the silly word "polish" to describe MMOs.
Lol whining about whiners, lol self-owned.
Also I never saw the value in twinks. Can someone explain to me the fun in twinks?
I think you need to be a complete ****er to understand the fun in twinks. I gave up trying.
However, just to defend WoW a bit - none of this is new. In EQ1 people would level up to 50, gear up and then delevel back to 15 or whatever keeping all the gear and level 50 skills plus the smacktalk on the PvP servers was much worse than Barrens chat.
-- Suckyranger(15) hits DeleveledUberTwinkW***er(15) for 1 pt of damage.
-- DeleveledUberTwinkW***er(15) hits Suckyranger(15) for a gazillion pts of damage.
It's not so much what they do but the smacktalk after - it's the game equivalent of beating up a little kid and then bragging over it.
The trouble is you can't fight them without becoming like them i.e you also have to try and think in terms of creating zero risk even though it's just pixels. Every time i've tried to do that I've felt so scuzzy I had to stop.
I don't care for WoW either but I have to agree with this fella. Really it isn't World of Warcraft that brings out this childish immature behaviour. I am starting to believe in any PvP game you are going to have a pretty bad community unless there are penalties to PvPing such as in Lineage 2 or Ultima Online.
So yes I believe WoW's community is pretty bad but its not just because it is WoW. I believe it is because of a system that allows griefing with no consequences.
Key word being feel, as in opinion. What people feel WoW has done is irrelavent and I'm sure many people including myself, feel it improved MMOs . Fact is they expanded the market so more companies are willing to spend money on MMO projects.
Edit: spelling and want to add something. If one person feels a game has done a disservice then avoid it and games like it, they can keep playing whatever they want. That person doesn't get to choose for others though. Some stay, some leave. Those that leave, do so because something else interests them.
Also if enough of the market feels the way you do someone is going to cater to your needs. Expecting priority though when you aren't the largest market is foolish.
Ok first of all it is a game, on a general level why do people enjoy pvp? It is fun to beat other people at a game.
Next, why do people hate twinks? Because they are seemingly impossible to kill, this takes away the possibility of winning and beating them at the game. I.e. no more fun since you are stuck as the loser.
This situation breeds the mentality that people who play twinks suck, they have no lives, and they do it just so they can feel better about themselves. Well what are you actually trying to achieve in this game, to kill another person, and that is what makes it fun, so twinks are made so they can have fun, sadly it then isn't fun for people who are stuck being dominated but grow up it is a game, and they just are better at it because they found a away to get better gear than you in the first place and therefore are a better player at the game, not worse as people so claim. All you have to do is level to 80 and then make your own twink and then you can have fun too.
But in the long run any way twinks aren't going to fix the pvp problem, say they eliminate twinks, well they some class is going to still stand out and be better than the rest, then guess what anyone who plays that class is a tard, etc. etc. etc. The reality is this game will never be fair and balance innless for some reason blizzard eliminated every other class than warriors, and not one was allowed to have any different gear or abilities, suddenly it is perfectly fair and completely skill based but guess what it is fun anymore. The only reason anyone enjoys pvp is because of the advantage they have, whether it is a twink or one class over another it is the same thing.
I also find the argument that it takes skill to pvp at 80 and it is fair and balance at 80 a laughable one. At 80 you just get put into a forced twinking situation. A twink is a character that is or has obtained the best gear possible for its level. At 80 all you do is pvp to gain honor, and/or arena points (through arena pvp obviously), to get the best gear possible at your level to help you "pwn noobs". I don’t see any difference in this situation where you place opponents with the top end arena gear vs. a team with; let’s just say for argument reasons, Blue crafted pvp items, typical of people who just turned 80. They have no chance of wining and it is not dependent on skill at all, if the team with the far superior gear isn't face rolling on their keyboard they have a much better chance at winning. They characters are just blatantly stronger, now the degree to which they are stronger may not be as much as a twink vs. a toon just leveling but it is still bad.
Overall it just comes down to people complaining about pvp in general. The sad fact is if someone puts more time into this game then you do they are going to have an advantage, twinks aren't easy to make, and neither is getting the best gear at 80, this game is not fair and balanced and it can't be, other wise it wouldn't be any fun.
I think your definition fits the WoW player that takes the actions the OP suggests very well. (Minus the attractive part)
He gets it! This guy gets it!!
Winning is fun. Messing with Blizz is fun!! Losing is a drag!! Jumping through Blizzard's hoops is a drag.
You know hwat made me make my first twink? Getting pwned by a twink. I was such a noob in 2005. I asked my friends what happened they said he has the best gear you can get so he won. I HAD to beat that guy, and I did. How is that different than working to beat a boss. I think it is better because the boss is an AI and they twink I pwned is infinelty smarter and harder to kill.