The game shouldn't even be played in an individualistic fashion (one player, one soldier). Dawn of War 2 had a good idea where you run a squad of soldiers.
Here's a couple of ideas on how this can be represented in a MMO fashion:
Players choose their origin and then create a squad leader for themselves (Ork Nob, Space Marine Chaplain, whatever).
Once the player has chosen their origin (Imperium, Eldar, whatever), they get a point allotment. With these points, the player can purchase squad units. The cost of the units would vary depending on their relative strength. This is where weaker individual units like Guardmen or Ork boyz would be cheaper and therefore make the squad larger, balancing the differences between armies. A squad of 10 guardmen could be roughly equivalent to 4 space marines (or whatever, I'm not making exact calculations, these are just examples)
The squad can be further optimized/individualized by changing wargear. Space marines with boltgun/chainsword combo, or bolter, or flamethrowers, etc.
As the player gains experience through missions, PVP, or whatever method chosen to advance development, the player would receive more points with which he can further customize his squad. Also, it would unlock new unit types, gear for their squad units (rocket launchers, plasma rifles, power swords, etc), and abilities for their squad leader. Dreadnaughts FTW, btw.
Mission/PVP rewards can be specialized version of gear for their squad leader or units.
Just ideas, though this definitely doesn't fit into the classic view of an MMORPG. Though, I get the feeling that many people are desperately seeking something that isn't a typical MMORPG.
The game shouldn't even be played in an individualistic fashion (one player, one soldier). Dawn of War 2 had a good idea where you run a squad of soldiers. Here's a couple of ideas on how this can be represented in a MMO fashion:
Players choose their origin and then create a squad leader for themselves (Ork Nob, Space Marine Chaplain, whatever). Once the player has chosen their origin (Imperium, Eldar, whatever), they get a point allotment. With these points, the player can purchase squad units. The cost of the units would vary depending on their relative strength. This is where weaker individual units like Guardmen or Ork boys would be cheaper and therefore make the squad larger, balancing the differences between armies. A squad of 10 guardmen could be roughly equivalent to 4 space marines (or whatever, I'm not making exact calculations, these are just examples) The squad can be further optimized/individualized by changing wargear. Space marines with boltgun/chainsword combo, or bolter, or flamethrowers, etc. As the player gains experience through missions, PVP, or whatever method chosen to advance development, the player would receive more points with which he can further customize his squad. Also, it would unlock new unit types, gear for their squad units (rocket launchers, plasma rifles, power swords, etc), and abilities for their squad leader. Dreadnaughts FTW, btw. Mission/PVP rewards can be specialized version of gear for their squad leader or units.
Just ideas, though this definitely doesn't fit into the classic view of an MMORPG. Though, I get the feeling that many people are desperately seeking something that isn't a typical MMORPG.
Definitely agree, verix78. A squad-based approach would be a superb way for them to stay a little closer to the source material and offer a new twist to the genre.
Sort of an Atlantica Online meets WH40k approach.
The interesting decisions will be how they split up the factions, and how they end up doing combat (typical MMORPG, MMOFPS, or squad-based MMORPG)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Definitely agree, verix78. A squad-based approach would be a superb way for them to stay a little closer to the source material and offer a new twist to the genre. Sort of an Atlantica Online meets WH40k approach. The interesting decisions will be how they split up the factions, and how they end up doing combat (typical MMORPG, MMOFPS, or squad-based MMORPG)
Not a bad idea at all Axehilt. It would make it easier to stay true to the TT universe, especially since it could then stay turn based. (They could even add little dice like DDO has)
Originally posted by TormDK Originally posted by Axehilt Definitely agree, verix78. A squad-based approach would be a superb way for them to stay a little closer to the source material and offer a new twist to the genre. Sort of an Atlantica Online meets WH40k approach. The interesting decisions will be how they split up the factions, and how they end up doing combat (typical MMORPG, MMOFPS, or squad-based MMORPG)
Not a bad idea at all Axehilt. It would make it easier to stay true to the TT universe, especially since it could then stay turn based. (They could even add little dice like DDO has)
As long as decisions aren't being made specifically to "stay true" to TT, I'm all for the game copying some of the key elements that make TT play fun to players. Whether that means turn-based? Not so sure...turn-based usually feels rather artificial to players.
Comes down to what sort of game they want to make I suppose.
Earlier I mentioned how 1st person cam trumps 3rd person camera views when it comes to immersion. Well 3rd person cameras which have to show your full squad are even less immersive (due to being zoomed farther back.) Basically immersion in a squad-based MMORPG goes way down, even though it's a pretty cool combat system.
In addition to the camera, 40K has some really kickass hero/commander units and players typically want to be something badass in games. It's easier to identify with a single avatar than an army of them (while playing DOW2 at no point did I really feel the force commander was me. I wasn't terribly attached to the squad leaders, even though the gameplay and dialog was quite good.) And well, I suppose I don't really feel any of my MMORPG characters are me either, but at least I feel a greater connection with them. They're kinda like a pet that you've nurtured. I suppose that underlying parenting mechanism is part of the appeal of MMORPGs and watching characters grow; perhaps it even partially explains MMORPG's age bracket.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Definitely agree, verix78. A squad-based approach would be a superb way for them to stay a little closer to the source material and offer a new twist to the genre. Sort of an Atlantica Online meets WH40k approach. The interesting decisions will be how they split up the factions, and how they end up doing combat (typical MMORPG, MMOFPS, or squad-based MMORPG)
Not a bad idea at all Axehilt. It would make it easier to stay true to the TT universe, especially since it could then stay turn based. (They could even add little dice like DDO has)
I'm not sure turn based gameplay would work well in this situation. People don't have patience to wait for others to plan their moves and it would slow gameplay significantly. That might have worked many years ago, but it wouldn't work today. Brings back Heroes of Might and Magic memories from my younger years.
Keeping it real time would keep the action raw. However, a downside I can see with this idea is that you're relying on computer AI to path your squad mates. So imagine how ridiculous it would get if you're playing an Ork Nob with 15 boyz and they're all running around all over.
I like the idea of troops you can control, but not for everyone. Like Imperial Guard I can see you being an officer and at high levels you get a retinue of sorts that act as pets with really good AI. I think if that path was traveled you'd need to invest in making sure those things were bug free. I want a Commissar who can draft (summon) guardsmen who can be given a task and do it reliably. If its an FPS, I want them to go to ground and start laying some suppressive fire while I charge out and try to powerfist the ork boss. Getting them to use cover is something I can only see THQ pulling off. The best thing about a commissar is he'd be able to off his own pets in order to give the others bonuses. That would be a playstyle in itself. Mastering when to kill and who to kill would be sick. It would be like playing a warlock or something turning your HP (guardsmen) into damage.
I think the "Everyone needs their own planet" attitude is ridiculous. That would turn into a completely instanced game, which is fine, but its not anything I want to see. The only way to pull that off is to have the game revolve around eldar warpgates.
I want one full world. 360* of war. I want it to be possible to start in one continent and walk/swim back to where you started in a straight line and on the way run into hundreds, no thousands of hostile NPCs and players.
300k on a server is ridiculous. But I want to see a properly scaled world. I just can't see it being doable though. It would have to be several small conflicts on different planets linked together with a good story. A few guard regiments fighting chaos insurgents in a fleshed out hive city. The way to pull that off? Simple. The hive is located on an uninhabitable world. If you leave the city you die...
Here's the kicker. That's the game at launch. 2 Factions with multiple parts and classes. Perhaps a WoW style thing where there are a dozen classes shared by both. Or each Chaos class has multiple specs which are simply what god they follow and thus different builds come off that (much as it is on tabletop.) Imperial could be completely different system. Multiple sub factions representing different factions of the Imperium such as Inquisition, Guard, Navy, and Ecclesiarcy etc. each with their own classes but as a result no paths. Each faction would have mirror classes but based on the department they get their spec equivalent. A non mirror between the factions would be really neat.
From there more factions entering the fray fluffily with there own classes and spec system.
The more I look into a WH 40k MMO, as others have stated, the worst it looks.
If one is done, there must be all races that are considered a core part of the TT must also be playable. This means Tyranids and Necros also.
Second, it must not be of the standard style of leveling and equipement. I think a different blend of skill based style of gameplay mechanics. Equipment would never drop fully but instead drop as just junk and must be crafted from this junk. Vehicles must be part of the game.
Third, PvP must be a central part of the game. PvE quests must be far and few between, like old EQ or Mortal Online. The balance of races for factional PvP must be uneven. Imperium vs Tyranids vs Orks vs Necrons vs Chaos vs Eldar.
Fourth, a WH40k MMO could not work in the traditional style. I think some type of unique blend of RTS,RPG, and MMO would be the only way to get this to work. Lots of AI controlled units to help with facilating conflicts. Tyranids, Orks, and Necrons would greatly benefit from this as they would be less played by the playerbase. Imperium and Chaos would be favors so no shortages there. Eldar should be a small amount of the population, which means little to no AI for their side.
With all of those, the likelyhood of this happened is next to zero. A game of this magnitude would require like 8+ years of development to strike a balance between lore and gameplay. I wish any and all luck for Vigil Games on their endevors in giving us a 40k MMO.
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
I'd make it a bit like a Warhammer version of Planetside:
1. Four sides.
2. Galaxy of seperate planets in a diamond shape with home worlds at the four corners. Each planet would be like a zone of battlegrounds / scenarios.
3. Game would decide which sides were fighting over which planet and the players from those sides would be channeled to there e.g your side is ork and the game has picked a human planet as the planet your side is attacking and you're the attacker so you spawn on your fleet above the human planet.
4. Once the sides / planet was decided it would be like a waiting room for a scenario and the game would grab players from each side and throw them into a battle. Each battle won would give the winning side 50 pts for example and your side would need maybe 500pts to either successfully take the planet or successfully beat off the attack. Once that planet was decided one way or the other the game would pick the next planet and what the sides were and all the players from those sides would then be channeled there.
5. The battlegrounds on each planet wouldn't be the same maps, there'd be half a dozen or so different contact battlefields and 3 attack/defend battlefields but they'd all share the planet's unique feature e.g desert, jungle or whatever. Some of the battlefields would be say 100 vs 100 and you both had to advance from one side and take a central objective, others would be attacker vs defender where it might be 100 vs 50 but the defenders had some kind of base with turrets etc. You'd win each battle by being the first side to get 5000 points or something. You'd get points for the level of enemy player killed i.e a level 1 would be worth 1 pt and a level 50 would be worth 50 plus pts for holding the objective per untis of time. The winners would all get 5000 xp eaxh the losers 1250 xp.
6. There'd be classes and levels (sort of) but all on the same tree. You'd start as a level 1 grunt with a pewpew rifle and each "level" would be multiples of 5000 xp so to go to level 2 was 5000, 3 was 15000 so you'd basically have to be in one winning battle to get to level 2 and then another 2 to get to level3, then 3 more to get to level 4 etc. The levels would be like ranks and give you access to equipment - not extra HP or damage from your level etc e.g:
level2: basic armor, level3: first aid kit, level4: grenades, level5 night vision goggles etc
At level 10 there'd be a branch between combat and non-combat so maybe you branch off and get to level 16 as an engineer *but* you can always go back to where you branched off so in between battles you can flick back and forth. So say at level 10 you pick engineer and do a bunch of battles and get to level 16 engineer and then you decide to go back to level 10 grunt and choose to take the medic path for a couple of levels then go back to 10 again and carry on as infantry up to 20. Maybe at 20 infantry you can branch to vehicles or carry on more as infantry but you choose to go to 30 along the vehicle branch and then switch back to 16 engineer. You can be all the specialties and the game remembers what rank you are in each but you can only be active in one specialty at a time.
Your elite options like space marine might start at level 30 or 40.
7. Make it so the levels are as much as possible thrown in together and not seperated into tiers e.g make it so a bunch of level 1s with their pewpew rifle can take out a level 50 basically by making damage outweigh armor and healing. In the battlefields you can give a handicap to each side based on players times levels e.g if one side had 100 level 1s (100 points) and the other side had 100 level 20s (2000 pts) then the weaker side one gets 2000-100=1900 pts added to their battlefield score when the battle starts so they start closer to the winning 5000. Also maybe make it so there was a maxium of (player x level) pts in a battle e.g 2000 so 40 level 50s would hit the max and they might be against 100 level 20s.
8. You'd be in an army so some general (i.e the game) decided what planet you fight on and then you'd be thrown into various battles so it would be like a war of scenarios - reason being people like scenarios because it's a guaranteed fight whereas open RvR sometimes you can't find anyone.
9. Each planet would have their own quirks e.g one world might have giant bugs that spawn out of the ground and attack whoever is closest, another might have wandering dust storms that reduce visibility temporarily, a jungle planet might have low visiibility and low max range all the time because of the trees. What weapons you choose for your char would depend on things like this so when you logged on and saw what planet you were fighting for (and maybe other factors like attacker vs defender) you'd have a locker containing all the gear your rank/specialty could use and you'd pick which load you were going to carry. The gear would all be standardized and you could only pick one choice of a type i.e one armor, one main weapon, one secondary weapon, two special items etc but your choice within each category would increase with your rank.
10. The PvE would be limited to two things: one would be mobs added to battlefields to add some chaos and the other would be when one side massively outnumbered the other. So if say orcs players greatly outnumbered humans then the first thing the game would do is increase the number of attacker vs defender battles (100 vs 50) and reduce the both advance to an objective battles (100 vs 100) but if that wasn't enough then there'd be PvE mission maps where say 30 orc players wo'd been waiting for a space in a battle for too long got sent to a PvE mission map to attack some base guarded by NPCs. Winning these would maybe only give 10 pts towards the pts needed to take the planet rather than the 50 winning a battle gave plus less xp but it would give players something to do if they out numbered the other faction too much.
11. Home planets could be taken and factions knocked out of the game. It would be quite difficult as the homeworld and the two planets covering it in the diamond shaped grid would have stronger defensive bases than the other planets so it would be much easier for the defender to win the attacker vs defender battles. But is should be possible for a side to win the war by taking the other three home worlds and then the server is reset.
That's actually a really solid idea. I mean the whole instanced to hell aspect might get some negative responces at first from people, but the scale of the game would make it worthwhile.
Four factions is weak. If it was going to be done that way you can go all in. Every faction could get represented.
Set it up like this:
Each race has its own region and its own cluster of homeworlds which act as capitol cities so you can do all the stuff you need to MMO wise. Beyond this are dozens of planets which are each a half dozen instances as well as a physical region. The instances are massive afairs and each one is a massive 3D battle with a hundred or so people per side full FPS and hundreds of NPCs that turn it from "100 Attackers take Objective A and B from 100 Defenders." Into "Son's of Krieg! We must hold ze line! Ze civilians must be evacuated! Ze Host of the Hive is drawing near!" You could have protection missions where your small force has to last as long as you can to allow the women and children to get away while hundreds of recycling gaunts and fexes pour towards you in waves.
It would still lose a lot of the charm of a immersive MMO, but the FPS combat and complicated scenarios really would give it a story telling element that would be totally new and refreshing to the genre. It would make the whole game raiding in a sense, but it wouldn't be as "Paladin heal, warrior tank, druid cast moonfire" it would be more like "Boom headshot, combat roll, pop up, switch weapon, fire missile, kill carnifex, switch weapon, shoot gaunts, switch weapon, throw grenade, MEDIC!!!, heal, etc." But instead of it being just you vs some punk french clan in a counterstrike conflict or something, you now have a hundred guys on your side and you're all going to have to be on your game if you're going to survive a half a waaagh storming your section of trench lines. Tanks, Artillery strikes, all nessacary to making it good. Planes or Space ships crashing randomly into your trenches tearing a whole in the breastworks and allowing the enemy to pour through and get to grips as the game progresses and intensifies. I mean honestly, people will play the zombie games in CoD for days because they're fun even if you don't grind levels out of it. People like to test their mettle with increasingly hard gameplay. MMO's aren't increasingly hard. They tend to be just increasing. Not harder, because you progress at the same rate as the competition. There are hard bits but the game doesn't really get harder.
I am a big fan of Warhammer 40k. I've read about 20-25 War 40K novels (Ranging for the Horus Heresy series, Gaunt's Ghosts series, Eisenhorn series, Soul Drinkers series etc..) all told. I like that whole squad based idea. In reality it makes sense because the War40k universe is more a struggle/tale between colossal forces/factions. While you do get the point of view and descriptions of these struggles from individuals the main overall story does focus on the greater picture. Of course there is already a P&P game called Dark Hersey for which developers can draw on and develop a MMO game off. Believe it or not Warhammer 40K has a lot of interesting segments and factions which do not involve Space Marines. For example the Inquisition, Adept Mechanicus, Imperial Guard Forces, etc.. I just hope it doesn't become another level up, gear up MMO which puts story and immersion in the back sit to milk subscriptions with boring and mundane level based game play.
If I got a 40k MMO, I would want fast paced third person shooter combat, and for the game to be PvP based, almost like Planetside. I woudl want mobs to be only small creatures here and there that offer little EXP, again, with quests actually taking the form of missions telling you what to do in combat against the enemy. It would be cool if the missions were dynamic and could change on the fly (like, you may be told to capture a weapons depot and 5 other guys will be too by one NPC, and then your friend walks up to him and is told to capture a strategic hill. Or, if there's a battle going on, instead of just Kill 10 Enemies, you're told to go back up your comrades at that particular battle). I would like to see vehicles that players drive, being able to buy permament ones would be pretty awesome, although I'd rather they not be treated as the normal mounts. My idea would be you buy it, it's kept at a vehicle depot of some sort, being theses would be tanks and fighter aircraft and what not, you would pick it up before battle if you wanted and then, whereever you got out of it, it would stay there. It'd be nice to have the ability to lock and unlock it to allow a teammate to drive it or man a second gun. If anyone's played Crysis, think of the multiplayer vehicle system in that, but buying the vehicle is permament... unless it gets blown up. It'd be nice to be able to upgrade and change your vehicle too.
Armor should also take on a more personal approach with different paint schemes and medals, along with your division (guild) markings.
____________________________ Telthalion Rohircil - Guardian - Elemandir - Lord of The Rings Online --- == RIP == Torey - Commando - Orion - Tabula Rasa == RIP == --- Jordaniel Torey - Navy Megathron, Active Armor Tank - Tranquility - EVE Online --- Torey Scott - Rifleman - Fallen Earth ____________________________
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but I know World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
That's actually a really solid idea. I mean the whole instanced to hell aspect might get some negative responces at first from people, but the scale of the game would make it worthwhile. Yes and I'd understand why some wouldn't like the idea but imo these kind of games need big battles to be fun and for me that means the game calculating how many players there are available and trying to channel them together while making sure there's not so many players that it turns into a lag-fest. Part of instances / scenarios etc is they feel disconnected from the main world but this way would be more like an RTS where you had a series of linked maps in a campaign except the players would be the units and not the general. The story telling aspect would come more from you being a cog in a big war machine rather than the central hero which I think War 40K pretty well. Four factions is weak. If it was going to be done that way you can go all in. Every faction could get represented. True. The number doesn't have to be limited. I just like the idea of the homeworlds being in corners and capturing planets being harder the closer you got to the homeword so it woul dbe theoretically possible for a faction to knock other factions out of the game by taking their homeworld but it would be very hard in practise because of the strength of the defenses. are massive afairs and each one is a massive 3D battle with a hundred or so people per side full FPS and hundreds of NPCs that turn it from "100 Attackers take Objective A and B from 100 Defenders." Into "Son's of Krieg! We must hold ze line! Ze civilians must be evacuated! Ze Host of the Hive is drawing near!" You could have protection missions where your small force has to last as long as you can to allow the women and children to get away while hundreds of recycling gaunts and fexes pour towards you in waves. Yes the battles would need to feel like total chaos.
Comments
The game shouldn't even be played in an individualistic fashion (one player, one soldier). Dawn of War 2 had a good idea where you run a squad of soldiers.
Here's a couple of ideas on how this can be represented in a MMO fashion:
Just ideas, though this definitely doesn't fit into the classic view of an MMORPG. Though, I get the feeling that many people are desperately seeking something that isn't a typical MMORPG.
You just described war40k 1 and 2 .....
Definitely agree, verix78. A squad-based approach would be a superb way for them to stay a little closer to the source material and offer a new twist to the genre.
Sort of an Atlantica Online meets WH40k approach.
The interesting decisions will be how they split up the factions, and how they end up doing combat (typical MMORPG, MMOFPS, or squad-based MMORPG)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Not a bad idea at all Axehilt. It would make it easier to stay true to the TT universe, especially since it could then stay turn based. (They could even add little dice like DDO has)
Not a bad idea at all Axehilt. It would make it easier to stay true to the TT universe, especially since it could then stay turn based. (They could even add little dice like DDO has)
As long as decisions aren't being made specifically to "stay true" to TT, I'm all for the game copying some of the key elements that make TT play fun to players. Whether that means turn-based? Not so sure...turn-based usually feels rather artificial to players.
Comes down to what sort of game they want to make I suppose.
Earlier I mentioned how 1st person cam trumps 3rd person camera views when it comes to immersion. Well 3rd person cameras which have to show your full squad are even less immersive (due to being zoomed farther back.) Basically immersion in a squad-based MMORPG goes way down, even though it's a pretty cool combat system.
In addition to the camera, 40K has some really kickass hero/commander units and players typically want to be something badass in games. It's easier to identify with a single avatar than an army of them (while playing DOW2 at no point did I really feel the force commander was me. I wasn't terribly attached to the squad leaders, even though the gameplay and dialog was quite good.) And well, I suppose I don't really feel any of my MMORPG characters are me either, but at least I feel a greater connection with them. They're kinda like a pet that you've nurtured. I suppose that underlying parenting mechanism is part of the appeal of MMORPGs and watching characters grow; perhaps it even partially explains MMORPG's age bracket.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Not a bad idea at all Axehilt. It would make it easier to stay true to the TT universe, especially since it could then stay turn based. (They could even add little dice like DDO has)
I'm not sure turn based gameplay would work well in this situation. People don't have patience to wait for others to plan their moves and it would slow gameplay significantly. That might have worked many years ago, but it wouldn't work today. Brings back Heroes of Might and Magic memories from my younger years.
Keeping it real time would keep the action raw. However, a downside I can see with this idea is that you're relying on computer AI to path your squad mates. So imagine how ridiculous it would get if you're playing an Ork Nob with 15 boyz and they're all running around all over.
I like the idea of troops you can control, but not for everyone. Like Imperial Guard I can see you being an officer and at high levels you get a retinue of sorts that act as pets with really good AI. I think if that path was traveled you'd need to invest in making sure those things were bug free. I want a Commissar who can draft (summon) guardsmen who can be given a task and do it reliably. If its an FPS, I want them to go to ground and start laying some suppressive fire while I charge out and try to powerfist the ork boss. Getting them to use cover is something I can only see THQ pulling off. The best thing about a commissar is he'd be able to off his own pets in order to give the others bonuses. That would be a playstyle in itself. Mastering when to kill and who to kill would be sick. It would be like playing a warlock or something turning your HP (guardsmen) into damage.
I think the "Everyone needs their own planet" attitude is ridiculous. That would turn into a completely instanced game, which is fine, but its not anything I want to see. The only way to pull that off is to have the game revolve around eldar warpgates.
I want one full world. 360* of war. I want it to be possible to start in one continent and walk/swim back to where you started in a straight line and on the way run into hundreds, no thousands of hostile NPCs and players.
300k on a server is ridiculous. But I want to see a properly scaled world. I just can't see it being doable though. It would have to be several small conflicts on different planets linked together with a good story. A few guard regiments fighting chaos insurgents in a fleshed out hive city. The way to pull that off? Simple. The hive is located on an uninhabitable world. If you leave the city you die...
Here's the kicker. That's the game at launch. 2 Factions with multiple parts and classes. Perhaps a WoW style thing where there are a dozen classes shared by both. Or each Chaos class has multiple specs which are simply what god they follow and thus different builds come off that (much as it is on tabletop.) Imperial could be completely different system. Multiple sub factions representing different factions of the Imperium such as Inquisition, Guard, Navy, and Ecclesiarcy etc. each with their own classes but as a result no paths. Each faction would have mirror classes but based on the department they get their spec equivalent. A non mirror between the factions would be really neat.
From there more factions entering the fray fluffily with there own classes and spec system.
Current trend in MMOs would only lead to a horrible disgrace of the 40k brand, do not want 40k MMO.
however, a new 40k game of any other genre would be hella sweet
The more I look into a WH 40k MMO, as others have stated, the worst it looks.
If one is done, there must be all races that are considered a core part of the TT must also be playable. This means Tyranids and Necros also.
Second, it must not be of the standard style of leveling and equipement. I think a different blend of skill based style of gameplay mechanics. Equipment would never drop fully but instead drop as just junk and must be crafted from this junk. Vehicles must be part of the game.
Third, PvP must be a central part of the game. PvE quests must be far and few between, like old EQ or Mortal Online. The balance of races for factional PvP must be uneven. Imperium vs Tyranids vs Orks vs Necrons vs Chaos vs Eldar.
Fourth, a WH40k MMO could not work in the traditional style. I think some type of unique blend of RTS,RPG, and MMO would be the only way to get this to work. Lots of AI controlled units to help with facilating conflicts. Tyranids, Orks, and Necrons would greatly benefit from this as they would be less played by the playerbase. Imperium and Chaos would be favors so no shortages there. Eldar should be a small amount of the population, which means little to no AI for their side.
With all of those, the likelyhood of this happened is next to zero. A game of this magnitude would require like 8+ years of development to strike a balance between lore and gameplay. I wish any and all luck for Vigil Games on their endevors in giving us a 40k MMO.
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
I'd make it a bit like a Warhammer version of Planetside:
1. Four sides.
2. Galaxy of seperate planets in a diamond shape with home worlds at the four corners. Each planet would be like a zone of battlegrounds / scenarios.
3. Game would decide which sides were fighting over which planet and the players from those sides would be channeled to there e.g your side is ork and the game has picked a human planet as the planet your side is attacking and you're the attacker so you spawn on your fleet above the human planet.
4. Once the sides / planet was decided it would be like a waiting room for a scenario and the game would grab players from each side and throw them into a battle. Each battle won would give the winning side 50 pts for example and your side would need maybe 500pts to either successfully take the planet or successfully beat off the attack. Once that planet was decided one way or the other the game would pick the next planet and what the sides were and all the players from those sides would then be channeled there.
5. The battlegrounds on each planet wouldn't be the same maps, there'd be half a dozen or so different contact battlefields and 3 attack/defend battlefields but they'd all share the planet's unique feature e.g desert, jungle or whatever. Some of the battlefields would be say 100 vs 100 and you both had to advance from one side and take a central objective, others would be attacker vs defender where it might be 100 vs 50 but the defenders had some kind of base with turrets etc. You'd win each battle by being the first side to get 5000 points or something. You'd get points for the level of enemy player killed i.e a level 1 would be worth 1 pt and a level 50 would be worth 50 plus pts for holding the objective per untis of time. The winners would all get 5000 xp eaxh the losers 1250 xp.
6. There'd be classes and levels (sort of) but all on the same tree. You'd start as a level 1 grunt with a pewpew rifle and each "level" would be multiples of 5000 xp so to go to level 2 was 5000, 3 was 15000 so you'd basically have to be in one winning battle to get to level 2 and then another 2 to get to level3, then 3 more to get to level 4 etc. The levels would be like ranks and give you access to equipment - not extra HP or damage from your level etc e.g:
level2: basic armor, level3: first aid kit, level4: grenades, level5 night vision goggles etc
At level 10 there'd be a branch between combat and non-combat so maybe you branch off and get to level 16 as an engineer *but* you can always go back to where you branched off so in between battles you can flick back and forth. So say at level 10 you pick engineer and do a bunch of battles and get to level 16 engineer and then you decide to go back to level 10 grunt and choose to take the medic path for a couple of levels then go back to 10 again and carry on as infantry up to 20. Maybe at 20 infantry you can branch to vehicles or carry on more as infantry but you choose to go to 30 along the vehicle branch and then switch back to 16 engineer. You can be all the specialties and the game remembers what rank you are in each but you can only be active in one specialty at a time.
Your elite options like space marine might start at level 30 or 40.
7. Make it so the levels are as much as possible thrown in together and not seperated into tiers e.g make it so a bunch of level 1s with their pewpew rifle can take out a level 50 basically by making damage outweigh armor and healing. In the battlefields you can give a handicap to each side based on players times levels e.g if one side had 100 level 1s (100 points) and the other side had 100 level 20s (2000 pts) then the weaker side one gets 2000-100=1900 pts added to their battlefield score when the battle starts so they start closer to the winning 5000. Also maybe make it so there was a maxium of (player x level) pts in a battle e.g 2000 so 40 level 50s would hit the max and they might be against 100 level 20s.
8. You'd be in an army so some general (i.e the game) decided what planet you fight on and then you'd be thrown into various battles so it would be like a war of scenarios - reason being people like scenarios because it's a guaranteed fight whereas open RvR sometimes you can't find anyone.
9. Each planet would have their own quirks e.g one world might have giant bugs that spawn out of the ground and attack whoever is closest, another might have wandering dust storms that reduce visibility temporarily, a jungle planet might have low visiibility and low max range all the time because of the trees. What weapons you choose for your char would depend on things like this so when you logged on and saw what planet you were fighting for (and maybe other factors like attacker vs defender) you'd have a locker containing all the gear your rank/specialty could use and you'd pick which load you were going to carry. The gear would all be standardized and you could only pick one choice of a type i.e one armor, one main weapon, one secondary weapon, two special items etc but your choice within each category would increase with your rank.
10. The PvE would be limited to two things: one would be mobs added to battlefields to add some chaos and the other would be when one side massively outnumbered the other. So if say orcs players greatly outnumbered humans then the first thing the game would do is increase the number of attacker vs defender battles (100 vs 50) and reduce the both advance to an objective battles (100 vs 100) but if that wasn't enough then there'd be PvE mission maps where say 30 orc players wo'd been waiting for a space in a battle for too long got sent to a PvE mission map to attack some base guarded by NPCs. Winning these would maybe only give 10 pts towards the pts needed to take the planet rather than the 50 winning a battle gave plus less xp but it would give players something to do if they out numbered the other faction too much.
11. Home planets could be taken and factions knocked out of the game. It would be quite difficult as the homeworld and the two planets covering it in the diamond shaped grid would have stronger defensive bases than the other planets so it would be much easier for the defender to win the attacker vs defender battles. But is should be possible for a side to win the war by taking the other three home worlds and then the server is reset.
Good developers
That's actually a really solid idea. I mean the whole instanced to hell aspect might get some negative responces at first from people, but the scale of the game would make it worthwhile.
Four factions is weak. If it was going to be done that way you can go all in. Every faction could get represented.
Set it up like this:
Each race has its own region and its own cluster of homeworlds which act as capitol cities so you can do all the stuff you need to MMO wise. Beyond this are dozens of planets which are each a half dozen instances as well as a physical region. The instances are massive afairs and each one is a massive 3D battle with a hundred or so people per side full FPS and hundreds of NPCs that turn it from "100 Attackers take Objective A and B from 100 Defenders." Into "Son's of Krieg! We must hold ze line! Ze civilians must be evacuated! Ze Host of the Hive is drawing near!"
You could have protection missions where your small force has to last as long as you can to allow the women and children to get away while hundreds of recycling gaunts and fexes pour towards you in waves.
It would still lose a lot of the charm of a immersive MMO, but the FPS combat and complicated scenarios really would give it a story telling element that would be totally new and refreshing to the genre. It would make the whole game raiding in a sense, but it wouldn't be as "Paladin heal, warrior tank, druid cast moonfire" it would be more like "Boom headshot, combat roll, pop up, switch weapon, fire missile, kill carnifex, switch weapon, shoot gaunts, switch weapon, throw grenade, MEDIC!!!, heal, etc." But instead of it being just you vs some punk french clan in a counterstrike conflict or something, you now have a hundred guys on your side and you're all going to have to be on your game if you're going to survive a half a waaagh storming your section of trench lines. Tanks, Artillery strikes, all nessacary to making it good. Planes or Space ships crashing randomly into your trenches tearing a whole in the breastworks and allowing the enemy to pour through and get to grips as the game progresses and intensifies. I mean honestly, people will play the zombie games in CoD for days because they're fun even if you don't grind levels out of it. People like to test their mettle with increasingly hard gameplay. MMO's aren't increasingly hard. They tend to be just increasing. Not harder, because you progress at the same rate as the competition. There are hard bits but the game doesn't really get harder.
I am a big fan of Warhammer 40k. I've read about 20-25 War 40K novels (Ranging for the Horus Heresy series, Gaunt's Ghosts series, Eisenhorn series, Soul Drinkers series etc..) all told. I like that whole squad based idea. In reality it makes sense because the War40k universe is more a struggle/tale between colossal forces/factions. While you do get the point of view and descriptions of these struggles from individuals the main overall story does focus on the greater picture. Of course there is already a P&P game called Dark Hersey for which developers can draw on and develop a MMO game off. Believe it or not Warhammer 40K has a lot of interesting segments and factions which do not involve Space Marines. For example the Inquisition, Adept Mechanicus, Imperial Guard Forces, etc.. I just hope it doesn't become another level up, gear up MMO which puts story and immersion in the back sit to milk subscriptions with boring and mundane level based game play.
www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I agree to a degree. IMHO I'd rather see a Warhammer 40K CRPG game in the same manner as some Mass Effect or Vampire the Masquerade: Blood Lines.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
If I got a 40k MMO, I would want fast paced third person shooter combat, and for the game to be PvP based, almost like Planetside. I woudl want mobs to be only small creatures here and there that offer little EXP, again, with quests actually taking the form of missions telling you what to do in combat against the enemy. It would be cool if the missions were dynamic and could change on the fly (like, you may be told to capture a weapons depot and 5 other guys will be too by one NPC, and then your friend walks up to him and is told to capture a strategic hill. Or, if there's a battle going on, instead of just Kill 10 Enemies, you're told to go back up your comrades at that particular battle). I would like to see vehicles that players drive, being able to buy permament ones would be pretty awesome, although I'd rather they not be treated as the normal mounts. My idea would be you buy it, it's kept at a vehicle depot of some sort, being theses would be tanks and fighter aircraft and what not, you would pick it up before battle if you wanted and then, whereever you got out of it, it would stay there. It'd be nice to have the ability to lock and unlock it to allow a teammate to drive it or man a second gun. If anyone's played Crysis, think of the multiplayer vehicle system in that, but buying the vehicle is permament... unless it gets blown up. It'd be nice to be able to upgrade and change your vehicle too.
Armor should also take on a more personal approach with different paint schemes and medals, along with your division (guild) markings.
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Telthalion Rohircil - Guardian - Elemandir - Lord of The Rings Online
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== RIP == Torey - Commando - Orion - Tabula Rasa == RIP ==
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Jordaniel Torey - Navy Megathron, Active Armor Tank - Tranquility - EVE Online
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Torey Scott - Rifleman - Fallen Earth
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"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but I know World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein
what do I want to see from it?
Mythic and EA not even looking at it.
They aren't. THQ is working on a WH40K MMO.