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Sick of clans?
SimperFi
Member Posts: 108
So I started guild leading back about four years ago. Back then I had new members rolling in like they were on an assembly line. Now when I go out and recruit in games or in forums I get all kinds of crazy responses like the following:
1. I just don't have the time
2. I've had experiences with a guild
3. (ignore)
4. I'm not interested
5. I like to be alone
And that's fine. I am truly not upset if people don't want to join my guilds and clans. But I have to ask a question that I've been holding in for some time. I have received every response conceivable by the human mind. So the question:
"why play a massively multiplayer online game if you don't want to even speak to another person"?
Let's be honest folks, there are some logical arguments for avoiding guilds. But for all those people who turn down a team request that would give them 20 % more experience per kill plus more loot, why in the world are those people in MMO's? And as far as declining guilds because you either had a bad experience with ONE or because you want to play alone......what is the purpose of playing a multi-player game?
I think everyone has forgotten that guilds exist to aid their members and grow stronger by that road. Also to just be generally social and helpful to the community. So explain to me why guilds have become such a thing to be feared??
In my guilds things are lose, friendly and cooperative. We're almost exclusively adults aside from two exceptions. We use voice communication and play multiple games. We ENJOY gaming and have FUN. Is that not what a guild is supposed to be? And where do these other people come from?
Also if you're going to flame and tell me to STFU because I'm a bad guild leader or something, please go elsewhere. I'm here to ask a polite question as to which I would expect a polite answer in return.
And if anyone who reads this DOES like to play alone, please tell me why. I'd love to pick your brain and find out why so many MMO gamers are lonely souls.
cheers guys
Comments
My primary reason for wanting to play alone most of the time is that I play erratically. I have the attention span of a small bird, and quite frankly, no group should have to deal with me.
Now I've been known to buckle down and raid. I've been on 5-6 hour raids in WoW, I just don't enjoy it because I have to quell the impulse to wander off and do something else at random.
I like the kind of game where I can join and leave a group in a moment's notice. Towards the end of pre-nge SWG we used to do "hunting groups" that lasted for weeks at a time. The group would start with 8 people, and when someone bailed due to boredom or having to go to work or sleep or whatever, the group replaced them, and there were dozens of groups with essentially a universal waiting list. Spend as much or as little time in a group as you want: no set amount of time, no final goal other than upping your XP a little at a time.
I loved this style of group play; I didn't feel chained down like I do with more recent MMOs. I'd like to be able to randomly decide to bail on a group within a span of 30 seconds, but if I do that all the time, I get a bad reputation, so rather than risk getting bored/distracted quickly, I usually opt to not group in the first place.
Since when does <not wanting to be in a guild> equate to <not wanting to group>? Must be because most games these days are all solo to max and then all raiding and normal grouping is gone and fogotten.
What I don't like about guilds is the political system. People seem to think because they have a virtual title that their opinion carries more weight and that they are even qualified to make a decision based on a situation. Watching or listening to powertrips because of the anonymity of it all. That drives me insane.
It's a game and people are going to argue, disagree, etc. It's still a social setting, if you don't like speaking to someone don't. There are plenty of people I"ve worked with (aka guild) had to be in the same building as , but I didn't need to speak to them. That didn't however stop me from helping the company make money, doing my job, or talking to the friends I did have at work. Too many time Guild Stooges.... Leaders .. take this "everyone must get along approach" and "arguments will be handled like this"
Says who??? Some jerkoff on vent that has a title because he got 5 gold first? So Guild Leaders and titles are the first reason I do not like joining guilds. You can be the host of the party and not tell everyone what they're going to drink, eat, or how their conversations are going to go.
Secondly, I prefer to work in small groups of friends I trust. People I know who are likeminded when it comes to gaming. Large guilds tend to attract a lot of players who don't try ,beg, play sloppy.
I don't like scheduled events. I like to log on, find out what people are doing and see if someone is in the mood for the same thing I am. I don't want to know at 8pm Sat night I need to be on for a particular dungeon run. To me, everything should be spur of the moment get up and go.
So :
1) Leaders false sense of power,importance, intelligence, wisdom
2) I prefer small groups of friends as they are more personable and team oriented.
3) I don't want my game turning into a job due to "guild schedules"
Play the way you want to play.
I like to play alone because I prefer to play at my own pace, not someone else's. thats the main reason. Also, I think refusing to help another person is rude, so if someone asks me, i do help. and because i dont particularly like to help, i just dont join guilds. i have a couple of friends i play with and thats enough for me.
hope this clears things up. ^ ^
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Thanks Toquio3 that's very concise and well written compared to Greenie's Hostile and doom-filled death note.
And I only ask this question guys because I keep getting the most ridiculous and amazingly varied responses in every game. And I was just wondering if it's pointless to even be a guild leader in modern MMO's.
Id say a good majority of people like to get a feel for the game, community and guilds over time before they jump into a guild with some random guy that messaged them or that they partied with once or twice. Seems most responses would just be to turn you down politely with an "excuse" , not that one was needed. While on the other side, you have people who will join and drop guilds non stop till they find one that is right for them.
For those who just don't want to be part of a guild, I can think of a few things off the top of my head as to why. But personally i could care less how they want to play.
Q1. Why is your name Simper and not Semper?
Now to answer your question. I have multiple reasons. 1 of which is that a lot of MMOs can't hold my attention longer than a month or 2. I don't want to join a guild just to bail on them 2 or 3 weeks later. That's just not fair to them.
Another reason is that it's hard to find a guild that truly caters to your playstyle. For instance I'm married, I work, and I still have a social life. This means I can't be there at beck and call whenever the guild wants. Which means I get left out of a lot of things and therefore the guild tends to leave me behind.
Those are the 2 main reasons off the top of my head.
I've been in my share of guilds through out my MMORPG career and from my experience, very few of those guilds were made up of nice people. Most were filled with asshats. I've only been in 3 guilds where the majority were really cool people and one of those guilds got ruined by one asshat inviting his asshat friends who completely ruined the guild with whining, begging and "internet" slang.
Anyway. As such, usually before I join a guild, I make sure that those are the people I want to play with on regular basis. So if I get a guild invite out of nowhere, I either ignore it or politely decline.
Besides, I think that a lot of people who choose not to be guilded, do not want to be obligated to anyone. Very often guilds require their players to participate in guild events, help out newbies or whatever. Not a lot of people want to take a hour or so out of their play time to run a newbie through an instance or whatever.
For the OP. The simple answer to your simple question, “Sick of clans?”, is no.
My polite opinion being that, not absolute but for the most part, I believe that once a mmorpg player has decided to play a mmorpg for more than a few weeks:
>Fear of guilds or clans or participation in one does not exist.
>The vast majority of experienced mmorpg players understands the value of clan membership and participation as it relates to access to more game-play.
>If someone is sick of clans or guilds, then they are in the wrong one and should find one that suits their personality and play style.
>If someone has issue with being a subordinate, then start your own clan or find one that might provide opportunity for more of a leadership position.
>If someone has an issue with maintaining followership, while in a leadership position within a clan, then maybe that someone shouldn’t be in a leadership position or in as prominent a leadership position.
>A majority play mmo’s to participate with real players, not alone.
>There are always sporadic times when someone wants to play alone adventuring, questing, fighting, or crafting, etc., and times when players want to play cooperatively in a group.
>There will always be various clan sizes and types, and not all clan types appeal to a similar range of player types.
I don't understand the point of your question...I havn't heard of a single game yet where you had to be a member of a guild in order to talk to other people.
But perhaps this misunderstanding is where the answer lies. Some people see guilds as an absolutely essential social group, an important in an MMO as a family is in real life. Others see guilds as an almost pointless and sometimes divisive way of separating players into different groups. Both points of view are true to some extent I think.
I've played WoW and other MMORPG's and ran into what you're talking to. Friendly people would ask me why my advanced level characters weren't in a guild and if I wanted to join theirs. Et cetera.
Like some of the previous posters, I like to be in charge of the play times that I set aside for myself. I also like to be in charge of the goals I'm trying to reach for characters, as well as what order I do them in. When a person joins a guild, there's a certain amount of peer pressure that gets applied that can get in the way of both of those things I like to be in control of with my characters and my playtime.
" Can someone help me out with this quest....? "
" We need just one more healer to run this dungeon. Hey X, are you busy? "
" X just went AFK to take care of something. Isn't sure when they'll be back, but is everyone cool with waiting for them? "
" Hey can someone make me X item or spot me X amount of money real quick? "
Screw that. If I join a guild, I make it very clear that I make it a point to take care of my own needs as much as I can on my own, and if there IS something I will need a hand with, that I'll ask for it on the Guild Website Forum Boards and fish around to set it up within a couple of days. At a time that's good for the person(s) helping out.
And then I tell the guildmaster that I will grant absolutely ZERO respect to any guild members that are unwilling to return the same courtesy to their fellow guild members. Let me tell you, they are hard to find, but guilds like that DO exist out there and they're worth being a part of.
99.9999999 % of the guilds that spam invites or do a friendly "you were cool to group with, you should join my guild" won't be one of them.
I actually ran guildless for a while in WoW because I didn't want to raid and all of the PvP guilds were pretty terrible on my server. I did eventually buckle and join my old guild in that game and then a month later got tired of raiding and quit.
I've been pretty lucky with guilds, that is, I haven't had to deal with a lot of asshats. My guild in WoW was the only reason I even really raided to begin with (even though I generally very much dislike raiding it was fun to do it with them). My guild in WAR was the only reason I stayed in that game for the 2 months on launch (I would have bailed much sooner otherwise) and they were one of those few guilds to where we were not only the top of our server but the guys were really laid back as well.
I don't join random guilds though, and I've always stuck to smaller guilds. One of my favorite times as a guild was when I was playing AoC (again only stuck in the game for 2 months because of them) to where it was only like 7 of us. Us 7 pretty much ended up making up the guild after the rest of them left, so it was a lot of fun.
So yeah I've been lucky that I haven't had to deal with a guild that's full of elitist assholes or something. It's difficult finding a balance sometimes, because while I don't want a guild that is terrible I also don't want a guild full of elitist assholes I dislike. I think if you find that perfect middle ground it really helps for a much more enjoyable experience.
Just because someone doesn't want to be in your clan doesn't mean they don't want to speak to another person. That's a bit of a leap there. In many (I didnt say all) MMOs there's no real benefit or advantage to joining a clan unless you're into raiding.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
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Not wanting to join your guild is not the same thing as not wanting to speak to another person. I'm always sociable in MMOs. I'm not always eager to join arbitrary groups like guilds or raid parties.
I want to do my own thing. I want to play on my own terms, I want to choose where I quest and what I do, and what time I'll be online. The chances are very slim that I'll contribuet anything to your guild, and even slimmer that I'll gain anything from it.
But since you haven't given me a good reason why I should join a guild, I shouldn't need to defend my decision not to join one.
Well SimperFi, I don't neccessarily think that people that refuse to join clans do not want to talk in a mmorpg.
However, it is odd when a game that rewards teams with extra bonuses would have soloers running around, since most games I have seen that reward teams with bonuses tend to cater towards groups/raiders more than soloists...
Joining a guild has both rewards AND obligations. Yes, guildmates will help you, but the favor must be returned. Frankly, I would rather not be pressured to fill a gap in a raid, stop what I'm doing to craft something for a guildie, or help a lowbie run an instance in exchange for the small amount of help I may need at some time. As a social network it is fine, but most guilds expect you to perform selfless acts and, frankly, I am selfish.
Guilds make the cold, empty world of a MMO come alive. Yes they have huge issues, but unless your idea of ineracting with other charecters is just asking them where to go in quest X, or hitting them over the head in pvp, you will find they make MMO's the greatest game genre there is.
Guild rivalries in pVp also add for an immersive mmorpg environment. Afterall, Lords and Barons were always fighting for dominance amongst each other in feudal times.
Guild rivalries in pVp also add for an immersive mmorpg environment. Afterall, Lords and Barons were always fighting for dominance amongst each other in feudal times.
That's the fun part of guilds for me, and probably why they just don't feel the same in PvE games. I mean in a PvP game half of the fun is the smack talk between large and rivaling guilds. I still remember there was a lot of it between my guild in WAR (Oath on the Ungrim server, at the time) versus some of the destruction guilds. Lot of fun trash talk and stuff.
Hell I actually saw an old guild I was at "war" with on my 7 man AoC Clan, The Family Business (On Tyranny) on the Aion beta server I was on. Chatted with the leader for a bit (guy from WarriorPoets) and kind of laughed about the older times.
Of course that's really cool too is that the more you play MMOs the more you start to see these guilds that you know from other games. I mean in Aion beta event alone I saw a few guilds from AoC that I knew on my server, and I only played that game for like 2 months. It's funny how small the MMO world can be sometimes.
Thanks everyone for all these varied responses. I'm sorry to say it's late here so I can only address a few points.
First I want to answer a point that's been floating in a few of the above posts. NO, not joining a guild is not the same as not wanting to talk to someone. Let me explain this more fully. I've been in games where there are people who don't even know their own character's name. Also, some simply ignore chat, public, trade, PM all chats. And not just messages I send them. Some gamers simply go bang at a rock with a hammer or something. While sometimes that's just what you have to do, I've seen an overwhelming number of players who simply won't speak. They will look at you after you say something, turn around and walk int he opposite direction. And I can't seem to find any gamers being generally social unless it's trade chat or PVP flaming.
So that's some of the source of my questions. I can't grasp why people walk around in an MMO blind to everyone else. It's one thing to go into your own world for a day or two, but to completely avoid human contact through text in a multiplayer game is beyond me.
And yes, I have done all kinds of recruiting tricks in my time. Many of the members I brought in, although sometimes through a large recruiting op, ended up being melded with the group. We all became friends and enjoyed gaming together. It's only lately that even speaking to someone in public chat feels like shouting in church.
I guess I'm just seeing a large transition. As I mentioned before I'm not upset about people not joining my guild. So those who seem to be confused about the purpose of my post, please read the whole thing. I understand that not joining a guild is not the same as not speaking to people. However, that's what's been happening lately.
Again, maybe I'm simply playing the wrong games, but from what I've seen, many MMO's simply lack the social interactions they once had. And yes, I do feel that a guild adds a lot to games. My guilds always strove to welcome newer players to games and help teach them whatever they wanted to learn. We lent money and even had a "hand me down" equipment system. So how is that something to be feared? How is that something that takes away from the people's freedom? I"m not a "carebear" but I definitely take care of people wherever I can. So I guess that's why I have trouble understanding the problem.
Thanks again for your responses guys.