Maybe my memory has finally gone to crap, but I seem to rcall Mr. Fuller having written articles here before. Please tell me I'm not ready for shuffleboard and Geritol already.
For some, the "Heroic" moment could be presented through completion of storylines. I know I thoroughly enjoyed the Windurst line of missions on FFXI. Aion looks like, from screens, that it would put the player in a pivotal role of storyline. PvP may be the only measure for some on discerning "heroic" players from others, like how people pick their favorite players in sports teams.
First of all, the traditional idea of a hero runs counter to what most MMO's are about: Team play.
In most stories, being a hero is an individual thing. Sure, many heroes have groups with them, but when it comes down as to what defines a hero, that is pure individuality.
Consider the most iconic group story published: The Lord of the Rings. For all the fellowsip, for all the teamwork, it came down to one guy's will. He failed, for were it not for Gollum biting the finger off, Frodo would have folded like a house of cards, and you will notice, that Frodo was on his own (Sam spectated) and the rest of the fellowship was fragmented into smaller groups through much of the books.
This means that MMO's need more ways for player's to distungish THEMSELVES. While solo play could foster this, the fact is TEAM PLAY could make a better stage for rising heroes, but current MMO design does not allow for it. For instance, what does the guy who pulls off a miracle and saves the raid from wiping by downing the final boss alone against all odds get? Other than a pat on the back, he gets nothing, and if his DKP is not high enough, he might not get any gear at all. I know this happens for it happened to me.
There needs to be rewards and recognition in place for those who stand out or make the team fly. As it stands, the current MMO models do exactly the opposite, be it loot tables, resources and even guild structures.
The other problem, is in the name of forced grouping, characters actually get weaker as the game goes on. Think about it. In WoW, my level one noob can solo any mob his level without difficulty. As the levels increase, a funny thing happens, he loses his combat edge against equal level opponents. Some classes hold their edge better than others, but all lose killing power as they level up when compared to opponents of their same level. In some games, just to knock down a same leveled foe requires a group. How is dependency on others heroic? It isn't.
The key lies in balancing individual needs with those of the team and the community. For the most part, MMO's foster individual competition while forcing such players be on a team. It is counter productive and it is certainly not heroic.
I never feel heroic doing the kind of hoops the game has in place for me to jump though. More often than not I feel like crap while somebody using an exploit or who bands together with a regular group freight trains over me. Then there are the guilds who have people who take advantage of players in order for them to get on the A list for grouping. Its all rather depressing. Back in the earlier days of mmorpgs I felt more heroic because then there was a tendency for players to really be a hero helping out other players. Now days it seems its all about selfishness, not much heroics in that.
Agree with you. I used to play MMOs giving stuff away (even in the heavy grinders). I did the same in WOW for about 2 months. Then I relalised that I was pretty much the only one and some of the epics I gave away to ppl (to use for themselfs) ended up in AH.
MMO gaming is a selfish game now. "its only a game" and if you get caught doing things - you can always just switch servers - even looks - genre - or faction..... Thats RPG ?
Is it good for the mmoRPG genre to have Developers doing things ONLY because it gives them extra money - even when it is causing ppl to cheat - steal - lie and then run off ? I dont think so. There is nothing heroic about it. Its pretty much cowardly act - MAINLY from the developer that hides behind statements like "BY demand of the players" ... When everyone knows it has NOTHING to do with their game - only about making money.
This article brings up some interesting points. First of all, the traditional idea of a hero runs counter to what most MMO's are about: Team play. In most stories, being a hero is an individual thing. Sure, many heroes have groups with them, but when it comes down as to what defines a hero, that is pure individuality. Consider the most iconic group story published: The Lord of the Rings. For all the fellowsip, for all the teamwork, it came down to one guy's will. He failed, for were it not for Gollum biting the finger off, Frodo would have folded like a house of cards, and you will notice, that Frodo was on his own (Sam spectated) and the rest of the fellowship was fragmented into smaller groups through much of the books. This means that MMO's need more ways for player's to distungish THEMSELVES. While solo play could foster this, the fact is TEAM PLAY could make a better stage for rising heroes, but current MMO design does not allow for it. For instance, what does the guy who pulls off a miracle and saves the raid from wiping by downing the final boss alone against all odds get? Other than a pat on the back, he gets nothing, and if his DKP is not high enough, he might not get any gear at all. I know this happens for it happened to me. There needs to be rewards and recognition in place for those who stand out or make the team fly. As it stands, the current MMO models do exactly the opposite, be it loot tables, resources and even guild structures. The other problem, is in the name of forced grouping, characters actually get weaker as the game goes on. Think about it. In WoW, my level one noob can solo any mob his level without difficulty. As the levels increase, a funny thing happens, he loses his combat edge against equal level opponents. Some classes hold their edge better than others, but all lose killing power as they level up when compared to opponents of their same level. In some games, just to knock down a same leveled foe requires a group. How is dependency on others heroic? It isn't. The key lies in balancing individual needs with those of the team and the community. For the most part, MMO's foster individual competition while forcing such players be on a team. It is counter productive and it is certainly not heroic.
How far would Frodo have gotten on his own ? ...
Ever done a boss beeing the last man standing ?
MMOs is ALL about teamwork. Thats why we have diffrent classes that have strenghts and weaknesses. Noone should get ANYWHERE without the support or help of others. If you dont agree... then go play a single player RPG and dont ruin a perfectly good MMO with griefing and server-jumping.
This article brings up some interesting points. First of all, the traditional idea of a hero runs counter to what most MMO's are about: Team play. In most stories, being a hero is an individual thing. Sure, many heroes have groups with them, but when it comes down as to what defines a hero, that is pure individuality. Consider the most iconic group story published: The Lord of the Rings. For all the fellowsip, for all the teamwork, it came down to one guy's will. He failed, for were it not for Gollum biting the finger off, Frodo would have folded like a house of cards, and you will notice, that Frodo was on his own (Sam spectated) and the rest of the fellowship was fragmented into smaller groups through much of the books. This means that MMO's need more ways for player's to distungish THEMSELVES. While solo play could foster this, the fact is TEAM PLAY could make a better stage for rising heroes, but current MMO design does not allow for it. For instance, what does the guy who pulls off a miracle and saves the raid from wiping by downing the final boss alone against all odds get? Other than a pat on the back, he gets nothing, and if his DKP is not high enough, he might not get any gear at all. I know this happens for it happened to me. There needs to be rewards and recognition in place for those who stand out or make the team fly. As it stands, the current MMO models do exactly the opposite, be it loot tables, resources and even guild structures. The other problem, is in the name of forced grouping, characters actually get weaker as the game goes on. Think about it. In WoW, my level one noob can solo any mob his level without difficulty. As the levels increase, a funny thing happens, he loses his combat edge against equal level opponents. Some classes hold their edge better than others, but all lose killing power as they level up when compared to opponents of their same level. In some games, just to knock down a same leveled foe requires a group. How is dependency on others heroic? It isn't. The key lies in balancing individual needs with those of the team and the community. For the most part, MMO's foster individual competition while forcing such players be on a team. It is counter productive and it is certainly not heroic.
How far would Frodo have gotten on his own ? ...
Ever done a boss beeing the last man standing ?
MMOs is ALL about teamwork. Thats why we have diffrent classes that have strenghts and weaknesses. Noone should get ANYWHERE without the support or help of others. If you dont agree... then go play a single player RPG and dont ruin a perfectly good MMO with griefing and server-jumping.
You do realize that after the 1st book, the fellowship was fragmented into groups of 2 or 3? (Frodo, Sam) (Merry & Pippen), (Aragorn, Legolas & Gimli) etc. Yeah, the stuff of "raidng"...not.
Your second question: Yes, which is why I said what I said. I solo'd Gar in MC for the last 10K and prevented the wipe, and what did I get? Nada, nothing, zip.
Your 3rd paragraph is very true for current MMO's. It is also an extremely myopic view of what is possible. Your mode of thinking is why the genre is so stale. If you really read what I said, you will see that I was suggesting a way for team play to coexist with individual goals. The last sentence of your post is well... pure bs.
" If you dont agree... then go play a single player RPG and dont ruin a perfectly good MMO with griefing and server-jumping."
Now this doesn't make sense. What does server jumping and greifing have to do with what i said? This be pure trolling and your attitude typifies the true destroyer of MMO communities: Jerks.
It is not solo play options; it is having to be force grouped with jerks. That is what kills communities and is the number one reason folks don't want to group up. Putting up with such idiocy is as far from heroic as possible and is not fun.
Nothing wrong with a two or three man team, but if you dont want to be in a team why play a game that has other players in it? Look at the unofficial GTA multiplayer servers, even there it is better to be in a team, more fun, more roleplaying. Those servers are not designed for teaming like a MMORPG is, but teaming up makes for a better game. Nuff said.
Nothing wrong with a two or three man team, but if you dont want to be in a team why play a game that has other players in it?
I'm not really sure how this comes into the topic. Then again I'm actually sick of seeing it (don't be offended.. its not you).
You know what the biggest MMO there will EVER be is? Real life. It has the biggest monthly fee as well... player housing.. player towns all kinds of crazy stuff. I've yet to ever invite total strangers to follow me around every where I go.
In fact you could say in that real life MMO I am pretty anti social... yet I've managed to find all kinds of treasure on my own. Crafts.. harvest... even done a few raids (solo).
Now because I log into a virtual world I have to group because other people are there? It seems like a.. well really strange concept.
You know in real life I can solo a mouse? I mean like really easily.
Yet in an MMO I've seen a mouse kill an entire group... sounds pretty heroic.
Now to be a bit more serious...
Grouping is like making friends. You don't force that. Its a social exercise. On the other hand you have to also realize that some people like to be alone. I'm not sure why the virtual world is supposed to have some special rules that the "real world" doesn't have.
What does make sense is that your personal abilities are only going to take you so far. So if you have these lofty goals.. you will need to combine your personal abilities with others. The larger the goal.. the more people you will need.
However, if your personal goals are simple... then you really don't need a zerg to go harvest a pebble.
I'm not really sure why this is hard to grasp?
I don't think I've ever felt heroic in an MMO (back to the topic). Growing up I read a lot of stories from all around the world about dragon slayers. As this was an interesting topic to me...
I remember a shoe makers assistant that solo'd a dragon.
I even remember a child that solo'd a dragon...
This wouldn't even come close to making sense in an MMO. I certainly wouldn't think it would make sense. Yet at the same time if you run a 24 man raid (or larger) to kill something a 6 year old child killed... how could that feel heroic? (they are both "fantasy" stories... but the dragon slayer stories long pre-date mmo's).
In the end.. games should be about "fun" which is why they are an entertainment product. Some people have fun mostly alone.. some people like to harvest or craft (not usually group actitivy) and many people like to get together and do large scale projects (group content/raids). If its not "fun" what is the point? Yet I don't think I've ever thought it was heroic.
At least for me its all about.. fun (yes I said that a few times).
Without putting too much merit into the pros or cons of team-based "heroic" gaming, this is a subject that needs discussion, because it is directly connected to the longevity of these games. When players start feeling everything is routine, they'll start asking why they are bothering with the game at all.
One thing to consider is a compromise. Imagine a dungeon/instance where the party or raid had to split up for different paths, or was forced to do so, and fend for themselves somewhat. That way, they might occasionally lay waste to dozens of mobs only to link up to confront the boss itself.
Another thing is that many MMO boss fights are one mob vs. the players. That's... kinda weak to me. I can see doing it once in a while, but most people prefer taking on numerous mobs all at once. The challenge can be equivalent to fighting fewer but tougher mobs, and even the most jaded hardcore raider has to admit a great satisfaction in using epic gear to mow down mobs that gave them trouble a few levels ago.
I dunno. The problem is pretty complex, and unless someone masters the psychology and sociology of gaming to any great degree, I suspect we'll be debating about it for some time.
I detest it when an MMO makes the player a hero. The fact that every single other PC is being treated the exact same way makes no one a hero. The whole 'players are heroes' thing: It's all false, all a lie, and it really, really grates on my nerves.
The only recognition I care about is from other players, if I get any at all, and what recognition I get may very well have nothing to do with my gear or my levels- so the MMO itself didn't make me a 'hero'.
I know there are people out there who have to be the first to kill the Big Bad. I know there are people who rate themselves on their gear compared to others. I've been in guilds that did both. I was even leader of one for a while. Neither mattered as much to me, but keeping my guild happy, doing things with them, exploring and figuring out things and making us all better- that's what was important to me.
I'll keep my 'heroism' in single player games. In an MMO, I just want to be successful.
The very basis of the idea of being a hero is not being one of the faceless untold masses, but someone exceptional. And that, sadly, is where it will have to keep failing to work in MMORPGs, simply because at the moment everyone is a hero, nobody is one anymore. Additionally, many players who long for that hero feeling are the solo-preferred, time-strapped and often not very skilled casual players, who seek the feeling of being an exceptional being for a few hours, as a fun change from daily life. Unfortunately, since they are by necessity the bottom rung of the ladder in virtually every regard in MMORPGs, making them heroes automatically means everyone will be one, diminishing the feeling greatly, or eliminating it outright. However, its especially that demographic that has become all the rave for MMORPGs to cater to, and there are already plenty of demands to create a game where the solo casual player can too become a great hero. At the same time, the same players lament that there is nothing they can have that not everyone else has, that they are all just clones, or that they arent treated special by anyone in the game. So, MMO companies seem to have altered the course to try and equalize. For reasons of envy and greed, it is deemed better to give everyone the same rewards and put everyone at a very close level, so those who cannot be heroes dont have to look at heroes, either. Its a bit like the lesser of two evils... if you cannot make everyone a hero, make nobody a hero so nobody feels left behind. Its, in a way, the ultimate consequence of a "everyone is special because they paid 15 bucks" concept in a culture of instant gratification and reward. But most people wont ever feel like a hero. Maybe a strong Singleplayer component, and segregating players from one another can help a little. Prevent the bottom rungs of the achievement ladder to ever encounter the higher rungs. But in the end, not everyone can be a hero because of the very essence of the concept "hero".
You're confusing heroism with celebrity. Anyone and everyone can be a hero and stand out to their friends, family and peers. Anyone who knows your limits and faults and sees you break past them and shine in the face of danger or fear or tremendous effort would consider that heroic.
People who work so hard to lose large amounts of weight, who over come temptation and laziness to achieve their goals are heroic. People who run marathons and triathalons, who push their bodies and minds to the limit and overcome them are heroic.
Unless your raid has stopped a dragon from attacking say, Stormwind and keeping it from killing all of the NPCs and PC's due to your efforts, then you're not heroic even from the standpoint of a story. There are no consequences to the greater good if you fail and the motivation tends to be about greed, not altruism.
Raiders are the prime example of celebrity twisted into heroism, it's disgusting.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I felt heroic in an mmo once. It was in my early days of swg back in late July or Early August of 03.
I had travelled to Anchorhead as a newbie scout/medic. There were daily raids from Bestine by imperial troops with these huge ATST walkers sometimes 9-12 walkers at a time against these poor folk trodding out a living in a remote outpost like Anchorhead. So I decided to help these people in the only way I knew how, by healing the injured what little I could.
One day a large force of 15 walkers and 20-30 imperial forces advanced upon the settlement, the rebels had been licking their wounds from a previous battle on one of the battle fields and there were roughly 40-50 rebels taking up residence in one of the subbasements of the cantina, healing wounds, regaining their strength.
Then the alarm rang, Imperials were nearing the hill overlooking Anchorhead reported the scout. The rebels sprang into action, broken, beaten, wounded alike taking up a defensive perimiter around the town hoping to defend the settlement and its residents. The imperials advanced, the rebels fought back brilliantly. Many were slaughtered in the 1st wave as the walkers advanced and devastated the town and its people, several of the defending commandos knocked out several of the walkers which sat burning in hulks of flames. Many non-injured rebels were now wounded, my job was to attend to those wounded anyway possible.
I sprang from my perch at the door of the make-shift medcenter and ran across the field dodging the flurry of laser blasts. I found several wounded rebels holed up in a crater in the center of town. I healed many of them with another medic. Then she took a big hit and lie there lifesessly. I dragged her clear out of the crater and up and into the medical center where the overwhelmed docter struggled with the corpses laying around him in the triage. I helped him triage a couple of patients and bring several back from the brink of death, including the medic.
I ran back out to check on the squad of defenders in the crater and continue my service. As I was just about to jump into the crater I saw a squad of storm troopers enter the med center. There was only one trooper left in the crater, she was gravely wounded. I healed and patched her up as best as I could, she was able to move so I dragged her by the back side of the crater healed her wounds until she was able to move. I then had her follow me to a back wall opening near the granary as I ushered her through the damaged wall I fell a strong heat sensation on my back, I turned around to see a walker and 4-5 storm troopers behind me, the cantina silent and the smoke of battle everywhere. Then everything went black.....
The young medic in this story, was me as a 200 point rebel and master medic in my early days of SWG, The other medic turned out eventually to be a good friend who I played with for 3 years. The doctor eventually became the 1st Jedi on the Kauri server and the lone trooper in the whole eventually became my guild leader for the Knights of Kauri guild. I really felt like a hero in those early days....damn I miss them...
Three sides did not inherently result in DAoC being more balanced - Midgard always ended up dominating on the server I played on regardless, and that never really changed.
But three sides can make it easier by causing the biggest faction to split their attention. Two weaker ones can gang up on the stronger one, assuming that the player distribution is more like 30/30/40 instead of 20/20/60.
Hmmm my idea of being heroic or at least what I thought was chivalrous ended up getting me labeled as a kill stealer.
Running through the woods outside the elven city in EQ I spot what appears to be a fair maiden (OK probably some guy that looks like the comic store owner from the Simpsons in reality) and dash to her (his?) rescue. She's surrounded by at least two treants and a boar so I charge the weakest of the three hoping to even the numbers. Succes - boar is dead, success treant #2 is dead and finally just before treant #1 is killed - "GO AWAY!" - my reponse while still trying to be chivalrous/heroic was "I'm sorry milady I was just trying to help did I do something wrong?" - "YEAH you stole my kills" - conversation goes on a bit from there with her(him?) threatening to report me for stealing.
Needless to say that put a quick end to my heroic days. Do I still charge into a battle first to meet the enemy head on? Yes so I suppose that's still a spot o' the ol' heroism kicking in there. Have I leapt off a four story building to save a friend taking serious damage in the process? Yes and heroism is alive and well. In the bar with the fine young maiden (It was an NPC so definitely not a him) about to lay her lips on my virginal friend oh yes I intercepted that kiss from the voluptuous bar girl so um - ok not quite heroism.
I think its hard for me to be "heroic" anymore, i mean i used to try and keep others from dying if i seen them in trouble, but many times i would get whispered and told off for helping, so i havn't bothered in a long time...
-shrugs- i think its means a lot of different things for everyone, for me helping gave me that feeling, but seems helping just led to getting crapped on so yeah like i said i don't bother anymore. Kinda sad for me as a healer type to run by someone getting hammered and then turning and leaving because i don't wanna get cussed out in whispers for helping.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
As much as I hate to admit it, no real death penalty makes it hard to feel heroic. Without risk there is no reward. If I have survived against overwhelming odds, or used my wits to defeat an enemy, it goes a long way toward feeling that I accomplished something. But knowing if I die, it's a small inconvenience before trying again, makes it less likely I will go that extra mile to succeed at all costs. And believe me, I hated trying to find my corpse in EQ, but damn, I NEVER wanted to die. Nowadays a lot of players just don't understand the big deal if the group wipes. And it ISN'T a big deal. But it still upsets me, because I remember the days when dying was NOT a strategy option.
There is only one game I get the heroic feeling from and its Never Winter Nights 2, on a RP or Social server, where only groups can kill a single monster, and you are forced to roleplay in order to get along and figure each otehr out. To me these small groups are heroes and they defeat monsters that require all their help....and saving each other is like saving a good friend. Anyways that is an online game, but not a MMO.
In MMOs I feel the lack of social ties, other than "help me kill this so we can complete a ques" causes a lack of the hero feel. If your working with a complete stranger, then you don't care what you accomplish. And seeing them die doesn't matter.
Also in WoW nowadays my character can solo almost anything that isn't a raid of 80 instance, so why should I feel like a hero if everything is so easy?
Lastly there is no real connection between the character and the bosses.....we just want to make them dead for the fun of it.....in old RPGs the boss kidnapped your sister/wife, killed your best friend, or wronged you somehow. And you wanted to get him back or vanquish his evil once and for all.......not so much in an MMO, its just "OOHHH I KEEL ILLIDAN FOR LOOTZ"
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I don't think any MMORPG really makes me feel like my characters are heroic. I just fail to see any difference in my character and anyone else's. And to me, if everyone is a hero... what makes being a hero special? Nothing. Nothing special, everyone is 'average' and 'vanilla' or the same.
Games have 'hero classes'... and even those get watered down and turned into 'just another class'.
Encounters, instances, dungeons, etc.,... have normal and heroic versions... and everyone can do them.
So, to me, RP must be involved for anyone to really do anything 'heroic' in an MMORPG. And as someone else said, who is to really say that someoen else is better at using their imagination than I am?
Uhg..., 7 pages mew. And yes I read every single post mew. This whole thread is so depressing listening to everyone mew. But at the same time I have to agree with a lot of stuff said mew. I have a lot of stuff to say both for the topic and in relation to what others said mew.
*Do I think heroism exists in MMO`s mew? On occasion I do mew.
*Does it exist from the game mew? No, it exists from the players mew.
To me the players are why I play a MMO mew. Most of the time their total jerks who make me angry to the point of quitting mew But every so often mew. I will meet that one person who makes it all worth it mew. Those rare precious few are the reason I love MMO mew.
*Do I desire to be a hero when I play an MMO mew? No, I have always enjoyed more being the one that stands beside or behind the hero mew. The one that helps supports that one to a higher place mew.
*Have I ever felt heroic in a MMO mew? Not really sure mew. I am one who is just happy making friends and finding cool stuff to do with in the game mew. I usually take supporter jobs in MMO mew. In EQOA I was a Druid (aka Healer) mew. In FFXI I was a Thief / Ranger (aka party supporter) mew. In PSU I was a ForteFighter mew.
In EQOA I became a druid cause I hated the way people charged for resurrections and heals and buffs mew. I wasn`t the only one either mew. Chatting with people and making friends I found others who hated that also mew. In the end 6 of us came together and swore an oath to change ti mew. We each abandoned our current characters and made a healer each mew. We became 3 clerics, 2 druids, and 1 shaman mew. Then we leveled up to 20 as quickly as we could mew. When ever we were in town seeking a party we went out of our way to offer free rez, free heals, and free buffs to any asking or offering to pay mew. By our oath we never accepted money for this service mew. I believe to this day on Marr`s Fist server that practice changed cause we thought something was wrong mew. I never thought of us as hero`s and still don`t mew. I think of us as people who thought something was wrong and were determined to fix it mew. I know some noticed what we were doing and claimed us as hero`s for making this effort to change things mew I would just say Most people wish to be good mew. Sometimes they just need someone to follow to that path so that they don`t feel alone in it mew.
I remember a time when I was playing EQOA and a guild showed me the meaning of a hero mew. I was up in a raid zone playing around solo with the roaming mobs when a raid group appeared and ran by me mew. I was bored and followed and watched mew. They went and spawned the boss Monster and attacked him and got totally wiped out mew. They all died and tried again mew. I just sat back and watched and enjoyed the sight figuring it wasn`t my place to interfere in a guilds play mew. They wiped again and again and again mew. Eventually many gave up and left mew including all their healers mew. I felt sorry but figured there was nothing I could do mew. With it over I walked away and went back to playing with the roamings alone mew. An hour later that guild started shouting asking for anyone to help them mew. I walked back over and volenteered my services mew. Others came from around the zone and volenterred also mew. People called in friends from around the game world to come and help this guild mew. I was amazed at how many showed up mew. Players of every class mew, except healer mew. No healers showed up and it made everyone sad mew. I stood there the lone healer offering to help this grand army mew. Many were scared to try without more healers mew. But one guy spoke up and said lets try mew. We wont know if we dont try mew. I stepped forward and said I do what ever I can mew. That I am not afraid of death mew. With that everyone cheered up and we prepared for the fight mew. We attacked it and went at it mew. I did my best for the sake of everyone mew. We got it down to 1/5 life when the leading tanks under my super vision died mew. Then I spammed healed myself to try and live just a little longer while everyone else kept throwing everything they had at it mew. But it was no use mew. I was no tank and soon fell to the damage being heaped upon me mew. I felt so worthless and so useless mew. But I res`ed everyone then myself mew. The brave tanks still with res effects charged right back in while i sat there mew. I used a drink and waited for mana mew. I took notice that many of the damage dealers were no gone and how I wanted to cry as I watched more and more die in front of me mew. As soon as I had mana I ran back in myself and started throwing out heals again mew. It didnt take long before I had the monster on me again and was again dead mew. I again resed everyone and broke groups and reformed groups to res everyone I could mew. Then I res`ed myself back to watch the monster die mew. Anouther healer had arrived on the scene and was taking care of everyone in my absence mew. When the monster died everyone cheered and I went about res`ing the last of the people back who wished to come back mew. Some chose to stay since the monster was dead mew. I then went about healing and buffing everyone there while everyone talked mew. Most of the people who came to help demanded to be allowed a roll at the loot mew. Some didn`t care and left mew. After I finished I said it was fun and wished all good bye mew. I got half way down the hill when they called my name and asked me to stop mew. I stopped and asked did I miss a buff or healing mew? They said no and the guild leader came down and offered a trade to me mew. I said thank you but declined the trade mew. I told him it was a nice offer but I had just offered to help mew. He offered the trade again and insisted I take it mew. Again I refused and started to leave but he chased me down again and traded with me again mew. This time he got everyone to shout out that I should take it mew. I asked what ti was mew. He said it was a healer shield mew. A really good one mew. That since I was the only healer that I deserved it mew. I said what about the other healer mew. He said that one showed up just at the end and didnt do anything at all mew. I told him that he should just give it one of his guild members and again I tried to leave mew. But again he stopped me and tried to trade with me mew. He said take I deserved it mew. At this time I was tired of saying no and I took mew. I told him if ever changed his mind I would give it back mew. On recieving it everyone cheered me on in shout and thanked me for my help mew. The leader of the guild tanked me also mew. I told them if they ever needed help again to just ask mew. I was again almost in tears mew. This time cause I was so moved by his actions mew. I figured it must be just some crappy shield that was no big deal and that must be why he insisted I have it mew. But when I looked it up it was one of the most expensive shields in game worth a small fortune mew. The reason for this was cause it was a very very good shield and one of the top best for a druid mew. After finding this out I was amazed mew. And for the actions that guild chose to make me take that shield when they could have so easily taken it for themselves for the money mew. I will always remember them mew. I began using the shield and and it eventually became a treasured memory and item for my character mew. To this day my EQOA Druid uses that shield mew. To me that guild showed true heroism that day mew. And I will never forget the actions they made that day mew. Individually I don`t know what kind of people they were mew. But as a group to this girl, they were one of the definitions of a hero mew.
In FFXI I dont have any great stories to tell mew. For being a Thief I was just always happy to help people get the rare stuff they needed mew. I go sit with people at NM`s or help farm items for them for quests mew. I was always really happy to just help mew. But some of my best memories in FFXI are with weird little slow exp gain parties where everyone relaxed and had fun instead of just trying to speed grind as fast as they could mew.
In PSU I am considered a weird player mew. Cause I won`t party with anyone higher level then me mew. Only people equal to or lower then me mew. I often can be found solo`ing the missions at what ever difficulty I feel and allow people to join as they please mew. I demand simply rules of politeness mew. Other then that anyone can join as any race/type combo mew. With me people can enjoy being weird combinations without any fear of being told their doing it wrong mew.
*Do I think everyone wishes to be a hero mew? No mew. I believe few people desire to be a hero mew. I believe most are just happy escaping reality for a short time without adding to the pressure of trying to be the best and always focusing to hold that position mew. I believe the number of people who desire and strive and play MMO`s to be a hero is a small percentage mew. But when your talking about hundreds of thousands of players even a one percentage player base is a whole lot of people mew. I believe those that desire this status of heroism just tend to be some of the more louder players mew. Those that are content have nothing to cry about mew. Those that wish for change are the ones that call for change mew.
*Why does every player have to be equal and the same mew? In real life everyone is far from equal and the same mew. IN real life everything is about being different mew? So why must a MMO only produce clone copies and force everyone into this mew. I think this is the wrong way to look at a MMO set up mew. I believe a MMO should allow for a player to be different mew. To allow for players to have infinite choices mew.
I wish I knew enough about programming to make a video game mew. Particularly a MMO mew. I have one designed in my head that has only been growing over the last many years mew. To this day it continues to grow and bloom within the dephs of my imagination mew. In the one in my head I ask why can`t a world be dynamic mew? Why Can`t a single player become a hero above the majority mew? Why can`t there be equipment or skills that only a single player in the game has mew? Why can`t there be more paths of power then just leveling up mew? I asked these questions and hundreds of other ones mew. In the end I designed a game that is completely unlike anything currently available mew. But the funny thing is I am now begining to see games pop up with one or two of the ideas that float in my head mew. I wonder how long it will be before someone combines them all together mew? But as many as have been finally thought of by others mew. There is still many ideas in my head which I have yet to see any MMO come up with mew. I have always been extremely creative mew. But always seemed to lack the skills to express that creativity mew. Over my life I have met alot of artists that tell me they wish they had 1/100th of the creativity I do mew. I turn back to them and say I wish I had 1/100th of the talent they do mew. For now I continue to try and learn coding despite that I never seem to understand it mew. And wish for someone to create a MMORPG Maker so that I could maybe create a shadow of what exists in my dreams mew. I am not going to make any claims that my design is better then the rest or that it is some great design mew. All I say to people when i talk about it is why not mew? When I dream of an MMO I dream of a world where everyone can create the role they wish to play mew. Where each person chooses their own path and follows it mew. Even if that path is to be a hero mew. But no dream worth striving for is easy mew. And being a hero I don`t believe should be either mew. Even in a video game mew. especially in one where that dream can become a reality mew. I dream of a world that changes regularly based on how players choose to initiate events mew. And how factions rise and fall and some born and some destroyed based on the players whims mew. Where the very idea of a class and job changes based on how a players starts and progresses their character mew. and where leveling isn`t the only way to gain power mew. Leaving paths of power that lead in directions that require a player to do things over then gain a higher level mew. That make a player look at anouther player 10 or even 20 levels lower then them and ask them self if they can defeat such an opponent and really worry that they might not be capable of defeating such an opponent mew? In my design everything is something but nothing is everything mew. And a Hero will rise and fall based not just on himself but those he keeps around him mew. just like in real life mew.
Heroic,heroism have nothing to do with it.Those players as in the OP's case were/are there for ONE reason onl;y,to get gear/items.Gaming has become quite pathetic in it's design,entice players with the best drops,then make an instanced zone that takes about one day to design and the players get all excited,like they are playing something of high quality,when in reality,they are playing the lowest form of quality a game can offer.It is VERY sad to say the least.
In FFXI ,BCNM's are sort of the same idea,but at least you had to put in time to pick up seals to enter those instances,they are not just go ahead it's all yours,here let me hold your hand on the way in.Gaining access to the other end game content is and must also be earned,and in some cases ONLY a normal group can be used,not the simplistic raiding zones that allow 10 tanks,10 rezzers,and everything else they need to ensure victory,albeit FFXI and many other games do have that crap as well.
IMO Heroism would be a VERY small group of players taking on many foes against all odds,that would be heorism.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
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Maybe my memory has finally gone to crap, but I seem to rcall Mr. Fuller having written articles here before. Please tell me I'm not ready for shuffleboard and Geritol already.
For some, the "Heroic" moment could be presented through completion of storylines. I know I thoroughly enjoyed the Windurst line of missions on FFXI. Aion looks like, from screens, that it would put the player in a pivotal role of storyline. PvP may be the only measure for some on discerning "heroic" players from others, like how people pick their favorite players in sports teams.
This article brings up some interesting points.
First of all, the traditional idea of a hero runs counter to what most MMO's are about: Team play.
In most stories, being a hero is an individual thing. Sure, many heroes have groups with them, but when it comes down as to what defines a hero, that is pure individuality.
Consider the most iconic group story published: The Lord of the Rings. For all the fellowsip, for all the teamwork, it came down to one guy's will. He failed, for were it not for Gollum biting the finger off, Frodo would have folded like a house of cards, and you will notice, that Frodo was on his own (Sam spectated) and the rest of the fellowship was fragmented into smaller groups through much of the books.
This means that MMO's need more ways for player's to distungish THEMSELVES. While solo play could foster this, the fact is TEAM PLAY could make a better stage for rising heroes, but current MMO design does not allow for it. For instance, what does the guy who pulls off a miracle and saves the raid from wiping by downing the final boss alone against all odds get? Other than a pat on the back, he gets nothing, and if his DKP is not high enough, he might not get any gear at all. I know this happens for it happened to me.
There needs to be rewards and recognition in place for those who stand out or make the team fly. As it stands, the current MMO models do exactly the opposite, be it loot tables, resources and even guild structures.
The other problem, is in the name of forced grouping, characters actually get weaker as the game goes on. Think about it. In WoW, my level one noob can solo any mob his level without difficulty. As the levels increase, a funny thing happens, he loses his combat edge against equal level opponents. Some classes hold their edge better than others, but all lose killing power as they level up when compared to opponents of their same level. In some games, just to knock down a same leveled foe requires a group. How is dependency on others heroic? It isn't.
The key lies in balancing individual needs with those of the team and the community. For the most part, MMO's foster individual competition while forcing such players be on a team. It is counter productive and it is certainly not heroic.
Agree with you. I used to play MMOs giving stuff away (even in the heavy grinders). I did the same in WOW for about 2 months. Then I relalised that I was pretty much the only one and some of the epics I gave away to ppl (to use for themselfs) ended up in AH.
MMO gaming is a selfish game now. "its only a game" and if you get caught doing things - you can always just switch servers - even looks - genre - or faction..... Thats RPG ?
Is it good for the mmoRPG genre to have Developers doing things ONLY because it gives them extra money - even when it is causing ppl to cheat - steal - lie and then run off ? I dont think so. There is nothing heroic about it. Its pretty much cowardly act - MAINLY from the developer that hides behind statements like "BY demand of the players" ... When everyone knows it has NOTHING to do with their game - only about making money.
How far would Frodo have gotten on his own ? ...
Ever done a boss beeing the last man standing ?
MMOs is ALL about teamwork. Thats why we have diffrent classes that have strenghts and weaknesses. Noone should get ANYWHERE without the support or help of others. If you dont agree... then go play a single player RPG and dont ruin a perfectly good MMO with griefing and server-jumping.
How far would Frodo have gotten on his own ? ...
Ever done a boss beeing the last man standing ?
MMOs is ALL about teamwork. Thats why we have diffrent classes that have strenghts and weaknesses. Noone should get ANYWHERE without the support or help of others. If you dont agree... then go play a single player RPG and dont ruin a perfectly good MMO with griefing and server-jumping.
You do realize that after the 1st book, the fellowship was fragmented into groups of 2 or 3? (Frodo, Sam) (Merry & Pippen), (Aragorn, Legolas & Gimli) etc. Yeah, the stuff of "raidng"...not.
Your second question: Yes, which is why I said what I said. I solo'd Gar in MC for the last 10K and prevented the wipe, and what did I get? Nada, nothing, zip.
Your 3rd paragraph is very true for current MMO's. It is also an extremely myopic view of what is possible. Your mode of thinking is why the genre is so stale. If you really read what I said, you will see that I was suggesting a way for team play to coexist with individual goals. The last sentence of your post is well... pure bs.
" If you dont agree... then go play a single player RPG and dont ruin a perfectly good MMO with griefing and server-jumping."
Now this doesn't make sense. What does server jumping and greifing have to do with what i said? This be pure trolling and your attitude typifies the true destroyer of MMO communities: Jerks.
It is not solo play options; it is having to be force grouped with jerks. That is what kills communities and is the number one reason folks don't want to group up. Putting up with such idiocy is as far from heroic as possible and is not fun.
Nothing wrong with a two or three man team, but if you dont want to be in a team why play a game that has other players in it? Look at the unofficial GTA multiplayer servers, even there it is better to be in a team, more fun, more roleplaying. Those servers are not designed for teaming like a MMORPG is, but teaming up makes for a better game. Nuff said.
I'm not really sure how this comes into the topic. Then again I'm actually sick of seeing it (don't be offended.. its not you).
You know what the biggest MMO there will EVER be is? Real life. It has the biggest monthly fee as well... player housing.. player towns all kinds of crazy stuff. I've yet to ever invite total strangers to follow me around every where I go.
In fact you could say in that real life MMO I am pretty anti social... yet I've managed to find all kinds of treasure on my own. Crafts.. harvest... even done a few raids (solo).
Now because I log into a virtual world I have to group because other people are there? It seems like a.. well really strange concept.
You know in real life I can solo a mouse? I mean like really easily.
Yet in an MMO I've seen a mouse kill an entire group... sounds pretty heroic.
Now to be a bit more serious...
Grouping is like making friends. You don't force that. Its a social exercise. On the other hand you have to also realize that some people like to be alone. I'm not sure why the virtual world is supposed to have some special rules that the "real world" doesn't have.
What does make sense is that your personal abilities are only going to take you so far. So if you have these lofty goals.. you will need to combine your personal abilities with others. The larger the goal.. the more people you will need.
However, if your personal goals are simple... then you really don't need a zerg to go harvest a pebble.
I'm not really sure why this is hard to grasp?
I don't think I've ever felt heroic in an MMO (back to the topic). Growing up I read a lot of stories from all around the world about dragon slayers. As this was an interesting topic to me...
I remember a shoe makers assistant that solo'd a dragon.
I even remember a child that solo'd a dragon...
This wouldn't even come close to making sense in an MMO. I certainly wouldn't think it would make sense. Yet at the same time if you run a 24 man raid (or larger) to kill something a 6 year old child killed... how could that feel heroic? (they are both "fantasy" stories... but the dragon slayer stories long pre-date mmo's).
In the end.. games should be about "fun" which is why they are an entertainment product. Some people have fun mostly alone.. some people like to harvest or craft (not usually group actitivy) and many people like to get together and do large scale projects (group content/raids). If its not "fun" what is the point? Yet I don't think I've ever thought it was heroic.
At least for me its all about.. fun (yes I said that a few times).
Without putting too much merit into the pros or cons of team-based "heroic" gaming, this is a subject that needs discussion, because it is directly connected to the longevity of these games. When players start feeling everything is routine, they'll start asking why they are bothering with the game at all.
One thing to consider is a compromise. Imagine a dungeon/instance where the party or raid had to split up for different paths, or was forced to do so, and fend for themselves somewhat. That way, they might occasionally lay waste to dozens of mobs only to link up to confront the boss itself.
Another thing is that many MMO boss fights are one mob vs. the players. That's... kinda weak to me. I can see doing it once in a while, but most people prefer taking on numerous mobs all at once. The challenge can be equivalent to fighting fewer but tougher mobs, and even the most jaded hardcore raider has to admit a great satisfaction in using epic gear to mow down mobs that gave them trouble a few levels ago.
I dunno. The problem is pretty complex, and unless someone masters the psychology and sociology of gaming to any great degree, I suspect we'll be debating about it for some time.
I detest it when an MMO makes the player a hero. The fact that every single other PC is being treated the exact same way makes no one a hero. The whole 'players are heroes' thing: It's all false, all a lie, and it really, really grates on my nerves.
The only recognition I care about is from other players, if I get any at all, and what recognition I get may very well have nothing to do with my gear or my levels- so the MMO itself didn't make me a 'hero'.
I know there are people out there who have to be the first to kill the Big Bad. I know there are people who rate themselves on their gear compared to others. I've been in guilds that did both. I was even leader of one for a while. Neither mattered as much to me, but keeping my guild happy, doing things with them, exploring and figuring out things and making us all better- that's what was important to me.
I'll keep my 'heroism' in single player games. In an MMO, I just want to be successful.
You're confusing heroism with celebrity. Anyone and everyone can be a hero and stand out to their friends, family and peers. Anyone who knows your limits and faults and sees you break past them and shine in the face of danger or fear or tremendous effort would consider that heroic.
People who work so hard to lose large amounts of weight, who over come temptation and laziness to achieve their goals are heroic. People who run marathons and triathalons, who push their bodies and minds to the limit and overcome them are heroic.
Unless your raid has stopped a dragon from attacking say, Stormwind and keeping it from killing all of the NPCs and PC's due to your efforts, then you're not heroic even from the standpoint of a story. There are no consequences to the greater good if you fail and the motivation tends to be about greed, not altruism.
Raiders are the prime example of celebrity twisted into heroism, it's disgusting.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I felt heroic in an mmo once. It was in my early days of swg back in late July or Early August of 03.
I had travelled to Anchorhead as a newbie scout/medic. There were daily raids from Bestine by imperial troops with these huge ATST walkers sometimes 9-12 walkers at a time against these poor folk trodding out a living in a remote outpost like Anchorhead. So I decided to help these people in the only way I knew how, by healing the injured what little I could.
One day a large force of 15 walkers and 20-30 imperial forces advanced upon the settlement, the rebels had been licking their wounds from a previous battle on one of the battle fields and there were roughly 40-50 rebels taking up residence in one of the subbasements of the cantina, healing wounds, regaining their strength.
Then the alarm rang, Imperials were nearing the hill overlooking Anchorhead reported the scout. The rebels sprang into action, broken, beaten, wounded alike taking up a defensive perimiter around the town hoping to defend the settlement and its residents. The imperials advanced, the rebels fought back brilliantly. Many were slaughtered in the 1st wave as the walkers advanced and devastated the town and its people, several of the defending commandos knocked out several of the walkers which sat burning in hulks of flames. Many non-injured rebels were now wounded, my job was to attend to those wounded anyway possible.
I sprang from my perch at the door of the make-shift medcenter and ran across the field dodging the flurry of laser blasts. I found several wounded rebels holed up in a crater in the center of town. I healed many of them with another medic. Then she took a big hit and lie there lifesessly. I dragged her clear out of the crater and up and into the medical center where the overwhelmed docter struggled with the corpses laying around him in the triage. I helped him triage a couple of patients and bring several back from the brink of death, including the medic.
I ran back out to check on the squad of defenders in the crater and continue my service. As I was just about to jump into the crater I saw a squad of storm troopers enter the med center. There was only one trooper left in the crater, she was gravely wounded. I healed and patched her up as best as I could, she was able to move so I dragged her by the back side of the crater healed her wounds until she was able to move. I then had her follow me to a back wall opening near the granary as I ushered her through the damaged wall I fell a strong heat sensation on my back, I turned around to see a walker and 4-5 storm troopers behind me, the cantina silent and the smoke of battle everywhere. Then everything went black.....
The young medic in this story, was me as a 200 point rebel and master medic in my early days of SWG, The other medic turned out eventually to be a good friend who I played with for 3 years. The doctor eventually became the 1st Jedi on the Kauri server and the lone trooper in the whole eventually became my guild leader for the Knights of Kauri guild. I really felt like a hero in those early days....damn I miss them...
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Three sides did not inherently result in DAoC being more balanced - Midgard always ended up dominating on the server I played on regardless, and that never really changed.
But three sides can make it easier by causing the biggest faction to split their attention. Two weaker ones can gang up on the stronger one, assuming that the player distribution is more like 30/30/40 instead of 20/20/60.
Hmmm my idea of being heroic or at least what I thought was chivalrous ended up getting me labeled as a kill stealer.
Running through the woods outside the elven city in EQ I spot what appears to be a fair maiden (OK probably some guy that looks like the comic store owner from the Simpsons in reality) and dash to her (his?) rescue. She's surrounded by at least two treants and a boar so I charge the weakest of the three hoping to even the numbers. Succes - boar is dead, success treant #2 is dead and finally just before treant #1 is killed - "GO AWAY!" - my reponse while still trying to be chivalrous/heroic was "I'm sorry milady I was just trying to help did I do something wrong?" - "YEAH you stole my kills" - conversation goes on a bit from there with her(him?) threatening to report me for stealing.
Needless to say that put a quick end to my heroic days. Do I still charge into a battle first to meet the enemy head on? Yes so I suppose that's still a spot o' the ol' heroism kicking in there. Have I leapt off a four story building to save a friend taking serious damage in the process? Yes and heroism is alive and well. In the bar with the fine young maiden (It was an NPC so definitely not a him) about to lay her lips on my virginal friend oh yes I intercepted that kiss from the voluptuous bar girl so um - ok not quite heroism.
I think its hard for me to be "heroic" anymore, i mean i used to try and keep others from dying if i seen them in trouble, but many times i would get whispered and told off for helping, so i havn't bothered in a long time...
-shrugs- i think its means a lot of different things for everyone, for me helping gave me that feeling, but seems helping just led to getting crapped on so yeah like i said i don't bother anymore. Kinda sad for me as a healer type to run by someone getting hammered and then turning and leaving because i don't wanna get cussed out in whispers for helping.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
As much as I hate to admit it, no real death penalty makes it hard to feel heroic. Without risk there is no reward. If I have survived against overwhelming odds, or used my wits to defeat an enemy, it goes a long way toward feeling that I accomplished something. But knowing if I die, it's a small inconvenience before trying again, makes it less likely I will go that extra mile to succeed at all costs. And believe me, I hated trying to find my corpse in EQ, but damn, I NEVER wanted to die. Nowadays a lot of players just don't understand the big deal if the group wipes. And it ISN'T a big deal. But it still upsets me, because I remember the days when dying was NOT a strategy option.
There is only one game I get the heroic feeling from and its Never Winter Nights 2, on a RP or Social server, where only groups can kill a single monster, and you are forced to roleplay in order to get along and figure each otehr out. To me these small groups are heroes and they defeat monsters that require all their help....and saving each other is like saving a good friend. Anyways that is an online game, but not a MMO.
In MMOs I feel the lack of social ties, other than "help me kill this so we can complete a ques" causes a lack of the hero feel. If your working with a complete stranger, then you don't care what you accomplish. And seeing them die doesn't matter.
Also in WoW nowadays my character can solo almost anything that isn't a raid of 80 instance, so why should I feel like a hero if everything is so easy?
Lastly there is no real connection between the character and the bosses.....we just want to make them dead for the fun of it.....in old RPGs the boss kidnapped your sister/wife, killed your best friend, or wronged you somehow. And you wanted to get him back or vanquish his evil once and for all.......not so much in an MMO, its just "OOHHH I KEEL ILLIDAN FOR LOOTZ"
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I don't think any MMORPG really makes me feel like my characters are heroic. I just fail to see any difference in my character and anyone else's. And to me, if everyone is a hero... what makes being a hero special? Nothing. Nothing special, everyone is 'average' and 'vanilla' or the same.
Games have 'hero classes'... and even those get watered down and turned into 'just another class'.
Encounters, instances, dungeons, etc.,... have normal and heroic versions... and everyone can do them.
So, to me, RP must be involved for anyone to really do anything 'heroic' in an MMORPG. And as someone else said, who is to really say that someoen else is better at using their imagination than I am?
Uhg..., 7 pages mew. And yes I read every single post mew. This whole thread is so depressing listening to everyone mew. But at the same time I have to agree with a lot of stuff said mew. I have a lot of stuff to say both for the topic and in relation to what others said mew.
*Do I think heroism exists in MMO`s mew? On occasion I do mew.
*Does it exist from the game mew? No, it exists from the players mew.
To me the players are why I play a MMO mew. Most of the time their total jerks who make me angry to the point of quitting mew But every so often mew. I will meet that one person who makes it all worth it mew. Those rare precious few are the reason I love MMO mew.
*Do I desire to be a hero when I play an MMO mew? No, I have always enjoyed more being the one that stands beside or behind the hero mew. The one that helps supports that one to a higher place mew.
*Have I ever felt heroic in a MMO mew? Not really sure mew. I am one who is just happy making friends and finding cool stuff to do with in the game mew. I usually take supporter jobs in MMO mew. In EQOA I was a Druid (aka Healer) mew. In FFXI I was a Thief / Ranger (aka party supporter) mew. In PSU I was a ForteFighter mew.
In EQOA I became a druid cause I hated the way people charged for resurrections and heals and buffs mew. I wasn`t the only one either mew. Chatting with people and making friends I found others who hated that also mew. In the end 6 of us came together and swore an oath to change ti mew. We each abandoned our current characters and made a healer each mew. We became 3 clerics, 2 druids, and 1 shaman mew. Then we leveled up to 20 as quickly as we could mew. When ever we were in town seeking a party we went out of our way to offer free rez, free heals, and free buffs to any asking or offering to pay mew. By our oath we never accepted money for this service mew. I believe to this day on Marr`s Fist server that practice changed cause we thought something was wrong mew. I never thought of us as hero`s and still don`t mew. I think of us as people who thought something was wrong and were determined to fix it mew. I know some noticed what we were doing and claimed us as hero`s for making this effort to change things mew I would just say Most people wish to be good mew. Sometimes they just need someone to follow to that path so that they don`t feel alone in it mew.
I remember a time when I was playing EQOA and a guild showed me the meaning of a hero mew. I was up in a raid zone playing around solo with the roaming mobs when a raid group appeared and ran by me mew. I was bored and followed and watched mew. They went and spawned the boss Monster and attacked him and got totally wiped out mew. They all died and tried again mew. I just sat back and watched and enjoyed the sight figuring it wasn`t my place to interfere in a guilds play mew. They wiped again and again and again mew. Eventually many gave up and left mew including all their healers mew. I felt sorry but figured there was nothing I could do mew. With it over I walked away and went back to playing with the roamings alone mew. An hour later that guild started shouting asking for anyone to help them mew. I walked back over and volenteered my services mew. Others came from around the zone and volenterred also mew. People called in friends from around the game world to come and help this guild mew. I was amazed at how many showed up mew. Players of every class mew, except healer mew. No healers showed up and it made everyone sad mew. I stood there the lone healer offering to help this grand army mew. Many were scared to try without more healers mew. But one guy spoke up and said lets try mew. We wont know if we dont try mew. I stepped forward and said I do what ever I can mew. That I am not afraid of death mew. With that everyone cheered up and we prepared for the fight mew. We attacked it and went at it mew. I did my best for the sake of everyone mew. We got it down to 1/5 life when the leading tanks under my super vision died mew. Then I spammed healed myself to try and live just a little longer while everyone else kept throwing everything they had at it mew. But it was no use mew. I was no tank and soon fell to the damage being heaped upon me mew. I felt so worthless and so useless mew. But I res`ed everyone then myself mew. The brave tanks still with res effects charged right back in while i sat there mew. I used a drink and waited for mana mew. I took notice that many of the damage dealers were no gone and how I wanted to cry as I watched more and more die in front of me mew. As soon as I had mana I ran back in myself and started throwing out heals again mew. It didnt take long before I had the monster on me again and was again dead mew. I again resed everyone and broke groups and reformed groups to res everyone I could mew. Then I res`ed myself back to watch the monster die mew. Anouther healer had arrived on the scene and was taking care of everyone in my absence mew. When the monster died everyone cheered and I went about res`ing the last of the people back who wished to come back mew. Some chose to stay since the monster was dead mew. I then went about healing and buffing everyone there while everyone talked mew. Most of the people who came to help demanded to be allowed a roll at the loot mew. Some didn`t care and left mew. After I finished I said it was fun and wished all good bye mew. I got half way down the hill when they called my name and asked me to stop mew. I stopped and asked did I miss a buff or healing mew? They said no and the guild leader came down and offered a trade to me mew. I said thank you but declined the trade mew. I told him it was a nice offer but I had just offered to help mew. He offered the trade again and insisted I take it mew. Again I refused and started to leave but he chased me down again and traded with me again mew. This time he got everyone to shout out that I should take it mew. I asked what ti was mew. He said it was a healer shield mew. A really good one mew. That since I was the only healer that I deserved it mew. I said what about the other healer mew. He said that one showed up just at the end and didnt do anything at all mew. I told him that he should just give it one of his guild members and again I tried to leave mew. But again he stopped me and tried to trade with me mew. He said take I deserved it mew. At this time I was tired of saying no and I took mew. I told him if ever changed his mind I would give it back mew. On recieving it everyone cheered me on in shout and thanked me for my help mew. The leader of the guild tanked me also mew. I told them if they ever needed help again to just ask mew. I was again almost in tears mew. This time cause I was so moved by his actions mew. I figured it must be just some crappy shield that was no big deal and that must be why he insisted I have it mew. But when I looked it up it was one of the most expensive shields in game worth a small fortune mew. The reason for this was cause it was a very very good shield and one of the top best for a druid mew. After finding this out I was amazed mew. And for the actions that guild chose to make me take that shield when they could have so easily taken it for themselves for the money mew. I will always remember them mew. I began using the shield and and it eventually became a treasured memory and item for my character mew. To this day my EQOA Druid uses that shield mew. To me that guild showed true heroism that day mew. And I will never forget the actions they made that day mew. Individually I don`t know what kind of people they were mew. But as a group to this girl, they were one of the definitions of a hero mew.
In FFXI I dont have any great stories to tell mew. For being a Thief I was just always happy to help people get the rare stuff they needed mew. I go sit with people at NM`s or help farm items for them for quests mew. I was always really happy to just help mew. But some of my best memories in FFXI are with weird little slow exp gain parties where everyone relaxed and had fun instead of just trying to speed grind as fast as they could mew.
In PSU I am considered a weird player mew. Cause I won`t party with anyone higher level then me mew. Only people equal to or lower then me mew. I often can be found solo`ing the missions at what ever difficulty I feel and allow people to join as they please mew. I demand simply rules of politeness mew. Other then that anyone can join as any race/type combo mew. With me people can enjoy being weird combinations without any fear of being told their doing it wrong mew.
*Do I think everyone wishes to be a hero mew? No mew. I believe few people desire to be a hero mew. I believe most are just happy escaping reality for a short time without adding to the pressure of trying to be the best and always focusing to hold that position mew. I believe the number of people who desire and strive and play MMO`s to be a hero is a small percentage mew. But when your talking about hundreds of thousands of players even a one percentage player base is a whole lot of people mew. I believe those that desire this status of heroism just tend to be some of the more louder players mew. Those that are content have nothing to cry about mew. Those that wish for change are the ones that call for change mew.
*Why does every player have to be equal and the same mew? In real life everyone is far from equal and the same mew. IN real life everything is about being different mew? So why must a MMO only produce clone copies and force everyone into this mew. I think this is the wrong way to look at a MMO set up mew. I believe a MMO should allow for a player to be different mew. To allow for players to have infinite choices mew.
I wish I knew enough about programming to make a video game mew. Particularly a MMO mew. I have one designed in my head that has only been growing over the last many years mew. To this day it continues to grow and bloom within the dephs of my imagination mew. In the one in my head I ask why can`t a world be dynamic mew? Why Can`t a single player become a hero above the majority mew? Why can`t there be equipment or skills that only a single player in the game has mew? Why can`t there be more paths of power then just leveling up mew? I asked these questions and hundreds of other ones mew. In the end I designed a game that is completely unlike anything currently available mew. But the funny thing is I am now begining to see games pop up with one or two of the ideas that float in my head mew. I wonder how long it will be before someone combines them all together mew? But as many as have been finally thought of by others mew. There is still many ideas in my head which I have yet to see any MMO come up with mew. I have always been extremely creative mew. But always seemed to lack the skills to express that creativity mew. Over my life I have met alot of artists that tell me they wish they had 1/100th of the creativity I do mew. I turn back to them and say I wish I had 1/100th of the talent they do mew. For now I continue to try and learn coding despite that I never seem to understand it mew. And wish for someone to create a MMORPG Maker so that I could maybe create a shadow of what exists in my dreams mew. I am not going to make any claims that my design is better then the rest or that it is some great design mew. All I say to people when i talk about it is why not mew? When I dream of an MMO I dream of a world where everyone can create the role they wish to play mew. Where each person chooses their own path and follows it mew. Even if that path is to be a hero mew. But no dream worth striving for is easy mew. And being a hero I don`t believe should be either mew. Even in a video game mew. especially in one where that dream can become a reality mew. I dream of a world that changes regularly based on how players choose to initiate events mew. And how factions rise and fall and some born and some destroyed based on the players whims mew. Where the very idea of a class and job changes based on how a players starts and progresses their character mew. and where leveling isn`t the only way to gain power mew. Leaving paths of power that lead in directions that require a player to do things over then gain a higher level mew. That make a player look at anouther player 10 or even 20 levels lower then them and ask them self if they can defeat such an opponent and really worry that they might not be capable of defeating such an opponent mew? In my design everything is something but nothing is everything mew. And a Hero will rise and fall based not just on himself but those he keeps around him mew. just like in real life mew.
Heroic,heroism have nothing to do with it.Those players as in the OP's case were/are there for ONE reason onl;y,to get gear/items.Gaming has become quite pathetic in it's design,entice players with the best drops,then make an instanced zone that takes about one day to design and the players get all excited,like they are playing something of high quality,when in reality,they are playing the lowest form of quality a game can offer.It is VERY sad to say the least.
In FFXI ,BCNM's are sort of the same idea,but at least you had to put in time to pick up seals to enter those instances,they are not just go ahead it's all yours,here let me hold your hand on the way in.Gaining access to the other end game content is and must also be earned,and in some cases ONLY a normal group can be used,not the simplistic raiding zones that allow 10 tanks,10 rezzers,and everything else they need to ensure victory,albeit FFXI and many other games do have that crap as well.
IMO Heroism would be a VERY small group of players taking on many foes against all odds,that would be heorism.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.