I'm still having a hard time seeing why anyone gives a damn about this.. Anyone willing to piss away their time in eve doing something as mindless and repetetive as high sec missioning deserves some sort of compensation. God I hate missions... I'd rather cut my lawn with a pair of fingernail clippers.
Damn strait Skippy! I laughed pretty hard when I read that.
Still, you can't manage aggro, loot and salvage 50 or 60 containers, then manage all the loot and do all the other things you have to do to make good money in level 4 missions AFK. To say you can is just SILLY! It may be repetitive and mind numbing but it's not AFK. It's boring work for isk is what it is.
People act like this is news or something mission runners been talking bout AFKing missions for years I already provided several links. go ask them how they're doing it.
Again, when you're AFK it doesnt matter if its more efficient ISK. Hell, I know people that pull out a hauler in 1.0 and leave on all night mining to make isk. so many ways to make ISK in empire AFK!
salvaging those hundreds of wrecks in L4s is boring as hell worse then running the mission. They probably only loot/salvage the BS wrecks. hell dont ask me I see people leave wrecks in 0.0 all the time too. not everyone salvages. Many folks just want their ISK right now from bounties
Ok First off.
If your AFKing the mission your NOT getting good Isk per Hour.
Can It be Done on lots of missions? Sure. But I can grab a Hac and Afk lvl 3 missions with no problem to. Should they be nerfed?
So whats your fix?
Move lvl 4 agents to lowsec? Drop the loot? Drop the mission reward?
What about all the other ways to make lots of isk afk? High sec Pos's? Gana nerf them next? How about Tradeing? Running Lvl 3 missions for tags? The said Hauler afking with a T2 Mining lazorofdoom?
Your argument is silly. Nerf peoples fun in the game so you can have more people to gank in lowsec? Oh no wait... people will just do one of the millions of other things to make isk in eve. Or they will Quit and you will have even less Pew Pew.
Some of Us just DON'T want to play the game your way... Shocking I Know But its the truth and it can Hurt.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
1. "Hello, I'm a total newb in level four missions. I'm actually doing level III missions in a Hurricane."
2."I am looking to train up a character to run level 4 missions. Which ship would be the more suitable ship to train for at mission running out of the raven and domi?"
3. "If you had to choose a T1 battleship class ship to run L4s what would it be?"
Then there's this from U : "salvaging those hundreds of wrecks in L4s is boring as hell worse then running the mission. They probably only loot/salvage the BS wrecks. hell dont ask me I see people leave wrecks in 0.0 all the time too. not everyone salvages. Many folks just want their ISK right now from bounties"
So your AFK don't even salvage the whole mission and make 50 to 100 mill isk an hour. LMAO WTF I think not dude!
I'm still having a hard time seeing why anyone gives a damn about this.. Anyone willing to piss away their time in eve doing something as mindless and repetetive as high sec missioning deserves some sort of compensation. God I hate missions... I'd rather cut my lawn with a pair of fingernail clippers.
Damn strait Skippy! I laughed pretty hard when I read that.
Still, you can't manage aggro, loot and salvage 50 or 60 containers, then manage all the loot and do all the other things you have to do to make good money in level 4 missions AFK. To say you can is just SILLY! It may be repetitive and mind numbing but it's not AFK. It's boring work for isk is what it is.
People act like this is news or something mission runners been talking bout AFKing missions for years I already provided several links. go ask them how they're doing it.
Again, when you're AFK it doesnt matter if its more efficient ISK. Hell, I know people that pull out a hauler in 1.0 and leave on all night mining to make isk. so many ways to make ISK in empire AFK!
salvaging those hundreds of wrecks in L4s is boring as hell worse then running the mission. They probably only loot/salvage the BS wrecks. hell dont ask me I see people leave wrecks in 0.0 all the time too. not everyone salvages. Many folks just want their ISK right now from bounties
Ok First off.
If your AFKing the mission your NOT getting good Isk per Hour.
Can It be Done on lots of missions? Sure. But I can grab a Hac and Afk lvl 3 missions with no problem to. Should they be nerfed?
So whats your fix?
Move lvl 4 agents to lowsec? Drop the loot? Drop the mission reward?
What about all the other ways to make lots of isk afk? High sec Pos's? Gana nerf them next? How about Tradeing? Running Lvl 3 missions for tags? The said Hauler afking with a T2 Mining lazorofdoom?
Your argument is silly. Nerf peoples fun in the game so you can have more people to gank in lowsec? Oh no wait... people will just do one of the millions of other things to make isk in eve. Or they will Quit and you will have even less Pew Pew.
Some of Us just DON'T want to play the game your way... Shocking I Know But its the truth and it can Hurt.
You can read the threads I linked already for suggested fixes. Also, for people that don't read my posts- I'm an Alliance player. This means I dont dwell in lowsec. I live deep in 0.0.
Really when I started this thread I kinda thought it would died a long time ago. Was just posting I understood why people wanted L4s nerfed.
Here's what your 3 articles have to say: 1. "Hello, I'm a total newb in level four missions. I'm actually doing level III missions in a Hurricane." 2."I am looking to train up a character to run level 4 missions. Which ship would be the more suitable ship to train for at mission running out of the raven and domi?"
3. "If you had to choose a T1 battleship class ship to run L4s what would it be?"
Then there's this from U : "salvaging those hundreds of wrecks in L4s is boring as hell worse then running the mission. They probably only loot/salvage the BS wrecks. hell dont ask me I see people leave wrecks in 0.0 all the time too. not everyone salvages. Many folks just want their ISK right now from bounties"
So your AFK don't even salvage the whole mission and make 50 to 100 mill isk an hour. LMAO WTF I think not dude!
You didnt read those threads at all did you? Can you even fly a maxed out drone boat?
just seems like most people arguing against this lack max drone skills... tsk tsk, cant argue against something you dont really know!
If your AFKing the mission your NOT getting good Isk per Hour. ....
Again, most efficient earning of ISK is irrelevant when you are AFK
look im totally happy to let the whole discussion drop. I find myself repeating myself and its just not interesting use of time.
Personally, I always try to read entire thread before jumping in. At least skim it. But anyway, time is limited i wouldnt waste it much arguing with strangers. no offense
Anyway, Taram brought up a good point earlier. I'm not going to go into detail. But he was right about the macroers. They are much worse then I thought. It is possible to use these exploits to make so much more isk afk in 0.0.
So that is just /thread for me. The only solace I have about all these people using cheats to earn isk in 0.0 is the knowledge that this ill-gotten wealth cannot compare to r64 moons
tsk tsk, cant argue against something you dont really know!
LMAO It's funny how often people say the things that apply most to them don't you think?
You didnt answer my question do you have max drone skills? Yes or No question. No need to get defensive. I don't see how anyone can comment on AFKing L4s w/o actually having the ability to do so
tsk tsk, cant argue against something you dont really know!
LMAO It's funny how often people say the things that apply most to them don't you think?
You didnt answer my question do you have max drone skills? Yes or No question. No need to get defensive. I don't see how anyone can comment on AFKing L4s w/o actually having the ability to do so
I have 4.4 Million in drones and was running drone boats in missions while you were playing pokemon
As I said the first time your ideas about AFK missions are silly. Macro's would sound better but still wouldn't work. Your drones get killed, your tank gets melted at the gate when you get there too fast with out drones, the best ships often outrun you. The list goes on. You can do it but the real problem is if you do it in a cheap ship you will lose it too often, and if you do it in a faction/faction fitted BS you only have to lose it once and you will. Why don't you start a equally dence thread about the billionaire can flippers
I seriously doubt you have any drones skills whatsoever but anyway.... I didnt have any ideas at all about L4s other than nerf them. I didnt post not one single idea please show me where I had suggestions here. I posted links to threads where people already had great ideas to nerf them
I keep seeing people saying "Its possible to make 50-100m/hr running l4 missions afk in high sec"
This is a lie
You cannot, I don't care HOW good you are, make more than 40mil/hr running level 4 missions on a single account in high sec. It just doesn't work that way.
<Snipped long rant from me, go read the original post if you care that much>
You really need to talk to devoted mission runnoers to understand how they earn ISK...
Every mission runner with common sense and decent skills won't be salvaging or looting since it is a waste of time.
Why you assume that you have to run every mission, thus again waste your time?
I am sorry Taram but you speak about L4 like a noob running L1 mission for his first 2 weeks of play.
I don't think anyone was ever implying that you can make 'lots' of ISK AFK but I dare to say(like many others) 30-40M is easy to achieve semi AFK with no risk at all...
1) You can't skip every bad mission unless you are lucky enough to be doing missions in a hub that has multiple lvl 4 agents available (I think there are 2 in all of high sec?) If you aren't willing to do faction missions (where you kill enemy navy rats and thus screw your faction with the target faction and get no bounties) and you aren't willing to do drone missions (no bounties) you are going to be turning down a LOT of missions in many cases. Unless you have multiple agents you just can't turn them down often enough.
2) Now add in the "Crappy" missions that aren't worth flying because the bounties are crap (buzzkill is one, duo of death is another) where the time it takes to go to the mission and do it is counter productive to the money made in the mission.
So
3) Summary: Unless you are fortunate to have multiple agents (very close together) to run missions for OR you are running multiple accounts and sharing missions among them you CANNOT make much isk running through missions by only grabbing the 'good' ones because you have to turn too many down which ends up with you losing the agent or having to wait 4hrs to use him again. Which re-iterates my point that if you are single-boxing 1 account you cannot "average" 40mil+ per hour running missions unless you are in the one system I know of which has more than 1 level 4q18+ agent in it. Yes, it CAN be done, but not in highsec... not with just 1 account anyway.... There is another 'cluster' of systems down around Magiko (forget the specific system names) which has 2 or 3 level 4 agents in a 4 system radius. But that involves travel time which slows you down so odds of making 40mil per hour are slim, and certainly not "afk".
Note: There are MULTIPLE lowsec systems where you can get as many as 4 lvl 4 qual 18+ agents all in the same station, let alone the same system. So in lowsec it is VERY possible to make insane ammts of isk running missions just as you suggest because you can turn down multiple missions at a time by just working all 4 agents. In this way you could get blockade back-to-back 4 times in a row (or comparable payout missions) wher eyou can just go nuts on bounties.
Bottom line: Anyone who says the 'average' player in highsec makes more than the 'average' player in 0.0 is lying and playing the 'grass is greener' game. Highsec is many things... but for missions? It's a nice *easy* source of isk... but it's hardly this way to wall-street. Trade is where it's at for making sick ammts of isk. Ask anyone. In 0.0 moon mining is the king, followed by plexing followed by running anomalies followed by mining followed by ratting. (IE: Ratting in 0.0 is the LOWEST income stream available).
Also: You do realize that in 0.0 you can simply do anomalies and make absolutely absurd ammts of isk with your ship-board scanner? You are also, in that case, much safer from roaming gangs since they can't tackle you just by spamming belts or warping to you using the directional scanner to find which belt you're in. They have to actually probe you down or use their ship board scanner to find the anomalies then find the anomaly you are in. (or use a prober to do the same). Either way, you have gobs of time to get safe.
Only correction I want to make here I do not believe you have alot of time to get safe in the new system. Using probes, they can probably get you with 2-3 minutes. So while doing exploration / anomalies in 0.0 I usually just get safe. But I agree this is still worlds safer than farming the belts!
Other day I practiced probing in my covops and I pinpointed targets in 2-3 mins.
But JGMII says he can get hostiles in 2-3 mins using a square formation with another probe in the center. This is how I scan ships now as well using his method
We both could be the exception however. in my case I have a covops with rigs so that might be a hgue factor.... So i guess just make sure no covops in system if u gonna risk it.....
You verify presence of covops via watching for probes on scan. Another way that I prefer if you close enough to the gates, always keep direction scanner open, set to full range, 360 angle, and see if a covops just entered
Now deadspace mission is really nice in 0.0. Because when we try to gank some explorers other day we had to enter through the gates to get to them. so they had forever+++ to get safed. sucked for us!
2-3 minutes *is* "Gobs of time" in EVE. If you can't get safe in 2-3 minutes after a neutral jumps into a 0.0 system with you you have no business being in 0.0 in the first place. Takes less than 1 minute to travel across most systems and jump out. Anyone who stays there longer than that is hunting you.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
3) Summary: Unless you are fortunate to have multiple agents (very close together) to run missions for
And this is where you are wrong - multiply agents makes you take missions of your choice. That's doable, that is how the game is and provides you +50M/hour income. I talked to people who practice that.
Low sec agents? Get a mission from low sec agent and jump into high sec to do the site...
Why running plexes in 0.0 when I can run them in high sec?
etc...
As said countless times, the high rewards and absolute safety makes other pew pew ways of income obsolete.
How am I wrong? You yourself just said I'm right. Also, you will find that almost every person who you talk to that makes 50mil+/hr from missions is using 2 or more accounts to do it.
TBH I'm not even sure why I'm continuing this debate. I don't even care about missions really. They're one of numerous ways to make isk in the game. If you don't like them, then don't do them. If you do like them, then do them. There are other ways to make isk far faster and far safer than missions. Why people bitch about missions is beyond me. The bottom line is that you can make FAR FAR FAR more isk just as safely in 0.0 as you can in highsec if you just spend 10 minutes thinking about it and practicing common sense. When I lived in 0.0 I cleared well over 100m/hr in isk when I needed to make money and I have never, not once in 4 years of play, gotten caught while PVE'ing in 0.0... never.
People who live in 0.0 that bitch about people in highsec making more isk than them, running missions of all things, are simply doing it wrong.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I keep seeing people saying "Its possible to make 50-100m/hr running l4 missions afk in high sec"
This is a lie
You cannot, I don't care HOW good you are, make more than 40mil/hr running level 4 missions on a single account in high sec. It just doesn't work that way.
<Snipped long rant from me, go read the original post if you care that much>
You really need to talk to devoted mission runnoers to understand how they earn ISK...
Every mission runner with common sense and decent skills won't be salvaging or looting since it is a waste of time.
Why you assume that you have to run every mission, thus again waste your time?
I am sorry Taram but you speak about L4 like a noob running L1 mission for his first 2 weeks of play.
I don't think anyone was ever implying that you can make 'lots' of ISK AFK but I dare to say(like many others) 30-40M is easy to achieve semi AFK with no risk at all...
1) You can't skip every bad mission unless you are lucky enough to be doing missions in a hub that has multiple lvl 4 agents available (I think there are 2 in all of high sec?) If you aren't willing to do faction missions (where you kill enemy navy rats and thus screw your faction with the target faction and get no bounties) and you aren't willing to do drone missions (no bounties) you are going to be turning down a LOT of missions in many cases. Unless you have multiple agents you just can't turn them down often enough.
2) Now add in the "Crappy" missions that aren't worth flying because the bounties are crap (buzzkill is one, duo of death is another) where the time it takes to go to the mission and do it is counter productive to the money made in the mission.
So
3) Summary: Unless you are fortunate to have multiple agents (very close together) to run missions for OR you are running multiple accounts and sharing missions among them you CANNOT make much isk running through missions by only grabbing the 'good' ones because you have to turn too many down which ends up with you losing the agent or having to wait 4hrs to use him again. Which re-iterates my point that if you are single-boxing 1 account you cannot "average" 40mil+ per hour running missions unless you are in the one system I know of which has more than 1 level 4q18+ agent in it. Yes, it CAN be done, but not in highsec... not with just 1 account anyway.... There is another 'cluster' of systems down around Magiko (forget the specific system names) which has 2 or 3 level 4 agents in a 4 system radius. But that involves travel time which slows you down so odds of making 40mil per hour are slim, and certainly not "afk".
Note: There are MULTIPLE lowsec systems where you can get as many as 4 lvl 4 qual 18+ agents all in the same station, let alone the same system. So in lowsec it is VERY possible to make insane ammts of isk running missions just as you suggest because you can turn down multiple missions at a time by just working all 4 agents. In this way you could get blockade back-to-back 4 times in a row (or comparable payout missions) wher eyou can just go nuts on bounties.
Bottom line: Anyone who says the 'average' player in highsec makes more than the 'average' player in 0.0 is lying and playing the 'grass is greener' game. Highsec is many things... but for missions? It's a nice *easy* source of isk... but it's hardly this way to wall-street. Trade is where it's at for making sick ammts of isk. Ask anyone. In 0.0 moon mining is the king, followed by plexing followed by running anomalies followed by mining followed by ratting. (IE: Ratting in 0.0 is the LOWEST income stream available).
Also: You do realize that in 0.0 you can simply do anomalies and make absolutely absurd ammts of isk with your ship-board scanner? You are also, in that case, much safer from roaming gangs since they can't tackle you just by spamming belts or warping to you using the directional scanner to find which belt you're in. They have to actually probe you down or use their ship board scanner to find the anomalies then find the anomaly you are in. (or use a prober to do the same). Either way, you have gobs of time to get safe.
Only correction I want to make here I do not believe you have alot of time to get safe in the new system. Using probes, they can probably get you with 2-3 minutes. So while doing exploration / anomalies in 0.0 I usually just get safe. But I agree this is still worlds safer than farming the belts!
Other day I practiced probing in my covops and I pinpointed targets in 2-3 mins.
But JGMII says he can get hostiles in 2-3 mins using a square formation with another probe in the center. This is how I scan ships now as well using his method
We both could be the exception however. in my case I have a covops with rigs so that might be a hgue factor.... So i guess just make sure no covops in system if u gonna risk it.....
You verify presence of covops via watching for probes on scan. Another way that I prefer if you close enough to the gates, always keep direction scanner open, set to full range, 360 angle, and see if a covops just entered
Now deadspace mission is really nice in 0.0. Because when we try to gank some explorers other day we had to enter through the gates to get to them. so they had forever+++ to get safed. sucked for us!
2-3 minutes *is* "Gobs of time" in EVE. If you can't get safe in 2-3 minutes after a neutral jumps into a 0.0 system with you you have no business being in 0.0 in the first place. Takes less than 1 minute to travel across most systems and jump out. Anyone who stays there longer than that is hunting you.
3) Summary: Unless you are fortunate to have multiple agents (very close together) to run missions for
And this is where you are wrong - multiply agents makes you take missions of your choice. That's doable, that is how the game is and provides you +50M/hour income. I talked to people who practice that. Low sec agents? Get a mission from low sec agent and jump into high sec to do the site... Why running plexes in 0.0 when I can run them in high sec? etc... As said countless times, the high rewards and absolute safety makes other pew pew ways of income obsolete.
How am I wrong? You yourself just said I'm right. Also, you will find that almost every person who you talk to that makes 50mil+/hr from missions is using 2 or more accounts to do it.
TBH I'm not even sure why I'm continuing this debate. I don't even care about missions really. They're one of numerous ways to make isk in the game. If you don't like them, then don't do them. If you do like them, then do them. There are other ways to make isk far faster and far safer than missions. Why people bitch about missions is beyond me. The bottom line is that you can make FAR FAR FAR more isk just as safely in 0.0 as you can in highsec if you just spend 10 minutes thinking about it and practicing common sense. When I lived in 0.0 I cleared well over 100m/hr in isk when I needed to make money and I have never, not once in 4 years of play, gotten caught while PVE'ing in 0.0... never. People who live in 0.0 that bitch about people in highsec making more isk than them, running missions of all things, are simply doing it wrong.
I agree. People are far more likely to get ganked in low sec space. The only real time you are at risk in 0.0 space is if you have no safespots bookmarked, no cloak and were not paying attention to local as in you were afk or to impatient to allow neutrals or reds to clear out of the system before going back to what you were doing. As for missions they are okay. You need clear missions quickly and well salvage and loot everything after a mission is over and then refine crap modules to really make "good" isk. IMHO every "HARDCORE PVPER" in EVE does some sort of carebear'ing ( mining, industry, trading, mission running, etc..) to generate ISK. There are not many people who can generate tons of isk by just pvping in EVE unless they like buying ISK from RMT services.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
PvP'ers want Level 4's nerfed? Inless your just really lazy in 0.0 or just completely stupid 0.0 is so much more profitable than empire is for level 4's itleast. The amount of time you spend switching modules and ammunition and looking up the mission you have to run takes to long and half the time im caught having to warp out of the mission 3 or 4 times with a fully fit t2 raven with t2 Cruise missile launchers rigs and all. Lmao. Whoever things L4's need to be nerfed havn't taken their meds. If anything Level 4's need to pay 2x as much as they do now bounties and reward. In a week alone I made over 4 Bil in Delve before BoB got their teeth kicked in and I was in Pupule alliance.
Originally posted by Unive THIS IS FROM A PVP'ERS PERSPECTIVE:PvP'ers want Level 4's nerfed? Inless your just really lazy in 0.0 or just completely stupid 0.0 is so much more profitable than empire is for level 4's itleast. The amount of time you spend switching modules and ammunition and looking up the mission you have to run takes to long and half the time im caught having to warp out of the mission 3 or 4 times with a fully fit t2 raven with t2 Cruise missile launchers rigs and all. Lmao. Whoever things L4's need to be nerfed havn't taken their meds. If anything Level 4's need to pay 2x as much as they do now bounties and reward. In a week alone I made over 4 Bil in Delve before BoB got their teeth kicked in and I was in Pupule alliance.
You must have a horrible fitted Raven if you have to warp out of level 4 missions. The only "hard" level 4 mission in EVE is "enemies abound 5 of 5'.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Originally posted by Taram TBH I'm not even sure why I'm continuing this debate.
Me neither. You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
TBH I'm not even sure why I'm continuing this debate.
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
This is true he keeps making same arguments even tho they are irrelevant. I found myself always repeating it doesnt what the most efficient ISK is when you are away from computer
TBH I'm not even sure why I'm continuing this debate.
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
Null sec lackeys complaining about high sec PVE is the only thing that shows a complete lack of knowledge here. Probably laziness but that’s another thread.
If you knew half as much as you claim and were capable of fielding a combat team you would watch the point here vanish.
TBH I'm not even sure why I'm continuing this debate.
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
Null sec lackeys complaining about high sec PVE is the only thing that shows a complete lack of knowledge here. Probably laziness but that’s another thread.
If you knew half as much as you claim and were capable of fielding a combat team you would watch the point here vanish.
i'm quite happy with the current balance as it is, then again, i rarely venture out of 0.0.. but i have done level IV's in the past, its boring, but it does make a bit of cash if your unable to rat..
TBH I'm not even sure why I'm continuing this debate.
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
Null sec lackeys complaining about high sec PVE is the only thing that shows a complete lack of knowledge here. Probably laziness but that’s another thread.
If you knew half as much as you claim and were capable of fielding a combat team you would watch the point here vanish.
If we are as clueless as you claim, then surely we would not be aware that mining ores in EVE is pretty broken. I recently read an article on Massively that discussed this issue and it is alarming. High sec L4s break so many parts of this game its pretty crazy
TBH I'm not even sure why I'm continuing this debate.
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
I have not once pointed out only the 'best' scenario for 0.0 ratting. I pointed out that EVERY aspect of life in 0.0 you can make FAR more isk than a mission runner if you spend the same ammount of time at it. And, yes, you can just as easily rat/mine/mission/plex/anomaly hunt in 0.0 "mostly afk" as well. Just have an eye on local and hit your safe if anyone shows up.
1) you can make stupid isk ratting ANYWHERE in 0.0 if you just use your shipboard scanner and do the anomalies because anomalies don't care about truesec.
2) You can make stupid isk ratting in the belts in any system below -2.5 truesec (that's well over 70% of 0.0, most of which is freaking empty, unless you live in absolutely craptastic 0.0 like providence or shallow 0.0 npc space like syndicate)
3) You can make absolutely insane isk mining anywhere in 0.0 that has one or more of the ABC ores or ICE or mercoxit or gas clouds etc.
4) Macro ratters make more isk than any mission runner hands down in almost any system in 0.0. And they are *really* afk, not just 'semi' afk
5) Plexers make more isk than any mission runner.
6) Moon miners make more isk than any mission runner.
7) Mission runners in 0.0 make more isk than any high sec mission runner AND get better implants since they can get pirate implants (ya know... slaves... halos... etc?)
Your points are totally invalid and your arguements are flawed. You keep bringing up "AFK mission running" when there is really no such thing. Yes there are domi setups that can do missions partially afk but even then the pilot needs to watch their drones, has to pay attention to know when the room is done so they can jump, has to know when the mission is done to warp back to station, has to complete the mission... has to get the next mission, has to switch their tank (unless they're omni-tanking in which case they have to be even more aware in missions because they can wind up pulling too much aggro and get popped) etc etc the list goes on.
Your logic and your arguement are flawed and you know it.
Also the premise of the entire original post is also flawed:
"PVP'ers" don't want L4's nerfed.
SOME do... but not nearly all.. in fact not even the majority.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Comments
Damn strait Skippy! I laughed pretty hard when I read that.
Still, you can't manage aggro, loot and salvage 50 or 60 containers, then manage all the loot and do all the other things you have to do to make good money in level 4 missions AFK. To say you can is just SILLY! It may be repetitive and mind numbing but it's not AFK. It's boring work for isk is what it is.
People act like this is news or something mission runners been talking bout AFKing missions for years I already provided several links. go ask them how they're doing it.
Again, when you're AFK it doesnt matter if its more efficient ISK. Hell, I know people that pull out a hauler in 1.0 and leave on all night mining to make isk. so many ways to make ISK in empire AFK!
salvaging those hundreds of wrecks in L4s is boring as hell worse then running the mission. They probably only loot/salvage the BS wrecks. hell dont ask me I see people leave wrecks in 0.0 all the time too. not everyone salvages. Many folks just want their ISK right now from bounties
Ok First off.
If your AFKing the mission your NOT getting good Isk per Hour.
Can It be Done on lots of missions? Sure. But I can grab a Hac and Afk lvl 3 missions with no problem to. Should they be nerfed?
So whats your fix?
Move lvl 4 agents to lowsec? Drop the loot? Drop the mission reward?
What about all the other ways to make lots of isk afk? High sec Pos's? Gana nerf them next? How about Tradeing? Running Lvl 3 missions for tags? The said Hauler afking with a T2 Mining lazorofdoom?
Your argument is silly. Nerf peoples fun in the game so you can have more people to gank in lowsec? Oh no wait... people will just do one of the millions of other things to make isk in eve. Or they will Quit and you will have even less Pew Pew.
Some of Us just DON'T want to play the game your way... Shocking I Know But its the truth and it can Hurt.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Here's what your 3 articles have to say:
1. "Hello, I'm a total newb in level four missions. I'm actually doing level III missions in a Hurricane."
2."I am looking to train up a character to run level 4 missions. Which ship would be the more suitable ship to train for at mission running out of the raven and domi?"
3. "If you had to choose a T1 battleship class ship to run L4s what would it be?"
Then there's this from U : "salvaging those hundreds of wrecks in L4s is boring as hell worse then running the mission. They probably only loot/salvage the BS wrecks. hell dont ask me I see people leave wrecks in 0.0 all the time too. not everyone salvages. Many folks just want their ISK right now from bounties"
So your AFK don't even salvage the whole mission and make 50 to 100 mill isk an hour. LMAO WTF I think not dude!
Damn strait Skippy! I laughed pretty hard when I read that.
Still, you can't manage aggro, loot and salvage 50 or 60 containers, then manage all the loot and do all the other things you have to do to make good money in level 4 missions AFK. To say you can is just SILLY! It may be repetitive and mind numbing but it's not AFK. It's boring work for isk is what it is.
People act like this is news or something mission runners been talking bout AFKing missions for years I already provided several links. go ask them how they're doing it.
Again, when you're AFK it doesnt matter if its more efficient ISK. Hell, I know people that pull out a hauler in 1.0 and leave on all night mining to make isk. so many ways to make ISK in empire AFK!
salvaging those hundreds of wrecks in L4s is boring as hell worse then running the mission. They probably only loot/salvage the BS wrecks. hell dont ask me I see people leave wrecks in 0.0 all the time too. not everyone salvages. Many folks just want their ISK right now from bounties
Ok First off.
If your AFKing the mission your NOT getting good Isk per Hour.
Can It be Done on lots of missions? Sure. But I can grab a Hac and Afk lvl 3 missions with no problem to. Should they be nerfed?
So whats your fix?
Move lvl 4 agents to lowsec? Drop the loot? Drop the mission reward?
What about all the other ways to make lots of isk afk? High sec Pos's? Gana nerf them next? How about Tradeing? Running Lvl 3 missions for tags? The said Hauler afking with a T2 Mining lazorofdoom?
Your argument is silly. Nerf peoples fun in the game so you can have more people to gank in lowsec? Oh no wait... people will just do one of the millions of other things to make isk in eve. Or they will Quit and you will have even less Pew Pew.
Some of Us just DON'T want to play the game your way... Shocking I Know But its the truth and it can Hurt.
You can read the threads I linked already for suggested fixes. Also, for people that don't read my posts- I'm an Alliance player. This means I dont dwell in lowsec. I live deep in 0.0.
Really when I started this thread I kinda thought it would died a long time ago. Was just posting I understood why people wanted L4s nerfed.
You didnt read those threads at all did you? Can you even fly a maxed out drone boat?
just seems like most people arguing against this lack max drone skills... tsk tsk, cant argue against something you dont really know!
Again, most efficient earning of ISK is irrelevant when you are AFK
look im totally happy to let the whole discussion drop. I find myself repeating myself and its just not interesting use of time.
Personally, I always try to read entire thread before jumping in. At least skim it. But anyway, time is limited i wouldnt waste it much arguing with strangers. no offense
Not about PVE lol
Anyway, Taram brought up a good point earlier. I'm not going to go into detail. But he was right about the macroers. They are much worse then I thought. It is possible to use these exploits to make so much more isk afk in 0.0.
So that is just /thread for me. The only solace I have about all these people using cheats to earn isk in 0.0 is the knowledge that this ill-gotten wealth cannot compare to r64 moons
LMAO It's funny how often people say the things that apply most to them don't you think?
Again, most efficient earning of ISK is irrelevant when you are AFK
Then what would it matter to those if one nerfs lvl4 missions?
You can still make ISKies AFKing, so why are AFK missioners even in this discussion.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
LMAO It's funny how often people say the things that apply most to them don't you think?
You didnt answer my question do you have max drone skills? Yes or No question. No need to get defensive. I don't see how anyone can comment on AFKing L4s w/o actually having the ability to do so
LMAO It's funny how often people say the things that apply most to them don't you think?
You didnt answer my question do you have max drone skills? Yes or No question. No need to get defensive. I don't see how anyone can comment on AFKing L4s w/o actually having the ability to do so
I have 4.4 Million in drones and was running drone boats in missions while you were playing pokemon
As I said the first time your ideas about AFK missions are silly. Macro's would sound better but still wouldn't work. Your drones get killed, your tank gets melted at the gate when you get there too fast with out drones, the best ships often outrun you. The list goes on. You can do it but the real problem is if you do it in a cheap ship you will lose it too often, and if you do it in a faction/faction fitted BS you only have to lose it once and you will. Why don't you start a equally dence thread about the billionaire can flippers
I seriously doubt you have any drones skills whatsoever but anyway.... I didnt have any ideas at all about L4s other than nerf them. I didnt post not one single idea please show me where I had suggestions here. I posted links to threads where people already had great ideas to nerf them
Please discuss the merits of those ideas
I'm trying to count the number of times you have been wrong in this thread!
You really need to talk to devoted mission runnoers to understand how they earn ISK...
Every mission runner with common sense and decent skills won't be salvaging or looting since it is a waste of time.
Why you assume that you have to run every mission, thus again waste your time?
I am sorry Taram but you speak about L4 like a noob running L1 mission for his first 2 weeks of play.
I don't think anyone was ever implying that you can make 'lots' of ISK AFK but I dare to say(like many others) 30-40M is easy to achieve semi AFK with no risk at all...
1) You can't skip every bad mission unless you are lucky enough to be doing missions in a hub that has multiple lvl 4 agents available (I think there are 2 in all of high sec?) If you aren't willing to do faction missions (where you kill enemy navy rats and thus screw your faction with the target faction and get no bounties) and you aren't willing to do drone missions (no bounties) you are going to be turning down a LOT of missions in many cases. Unless you have multiple agents you just can't turn them down often enough.
2) Now add in the "Crappy" missions that aren't worth flying because the bounties are crap (buzzkill is one, duo of death is another) where the time it takes to go to the mission and do it is counter productive to the money made in the mission.
So
3) Summary: Unless you are fortunate to have multiple agents (very close together) to run missions for OR you are running multiple accounts and sharing missions among them you CANNOT make much isk running through missions by only grabbing the 'good' ones because you have to turn too many down which ends up with you losing the agent or having to wait 4hrs to use him again. Which re-iterates my point that if you are single-boxing 1 account you cannot "average" 40mil+ per hour running missions unless you are in the one system I know of which has more than 1 level 4q18+ agent in it. Yes, it CAN be done, but not in highsec... not with just 1 account anyway.... There is another 'cluster' of systems down around Magiko (forget the specific system names) which has 2 or 3 level 4 agents in a 4 system radius. But that involves travel time which slows you down so odds of making 40mil per hour are slim, and certainly not "afk".
Note: There are MULTIPLE lowsec systems where you can get as many as 4 lvl 4 qual 18+ agents all in the same station, let alone the same system. So in lowsec it is VERY possible to make insane ammts of isk running missions just as you suggest because you can turn down multiple missions at a time by just working all 4 agents. In this way you could get blockade back-to-back 4 times in a row (or comparable payout missions) wher eyou can just go nuts on bounties.
Bottom line: Anyone who says the 'average' player in highsec makes more than the 'average' player in 0.0 is lying and playing the 'grass is greener' game. Highsec is many things... but for missions? It's a nice *easy* source of isk... but it's hardly this way to wall-street. Trade is where it's at for making sick ammts of isk. Ask anyone. In 0.0 moon mining is the king, followed by plexing followed by running anomalies followed by mining followed by ratting. (IE: Ratting in 0.0 is the LOWEST income stream available).
Also: You do realize that in 0.0 you can simply do anomalies and make absolutely absurd ammts of isk with your ship-board scanner? You are also, in that case, much safer from roaming gangs since they can't tackle you just by spamming belts or warping to you using the directional scanner to find which belt you're in. They have to actually probe you down or use their ship board scanner to find the anomalies then find the anomaly you are in. (or use a prober to do the same). Either way, you have gobs of time to get safe.
Only correction I want to make here I do not believe you have alot of time to get safe in the new system. Using probes, they can probably get you with 2-3 minutes. So while doing exploration / anomalies in 0.0 I usually just get safe. But I agree this is still worlds safer than farming the belts!
Other day I practiced probing in my covops and I pinpointed targets in 2-3 mins.
But JGMII says he can get hostiles in 2-3 mins using a square formation with another probe in the center. This is how I scan ships now as well using his method
We both could be the exception however. in my case I have a covops with rigs so that might be a hgue factor.... So i guess just make sure no covops in system if u gonna risk it.....
You verify presence of covops via watching for probes on scan. Another way that I prefer if you close enough to the gates, always keep direction scanner open, set to full range, 360 angle, and see if a covops just entered
Now deadspace mission is really nice in 0.0. Because when we try to gank some explorers other day we had to enter through the gates to get to them. so they had forever+++ to get safed. sucked for us!
2-3 minutes *is* "Gobs of time" in EVE. If you can't get safe in 2-3 minutes after a neutral jumps into a 0.0 system with you you have no business being in 0.0 in the first place. Takes less than 1 minute to travel across most systems and jump out. Anyone who stays there longer than that is hunting you.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
And this is where you are wrong - multiply agents makes you take missions of your choice. That's doable, that is how the game is and provides you +50M/hour income. I talked to people who practice that.
Low sec agents? Get a mission from low sec agent and jump into high sec to do the site...
Why running plexes in 0.0 when I can run them in high sec?
etc...
As said countless times, the high rewards and absolute safety makes other pew pew ways of income obsolete.
How am I wrong? You yourself just said I'm right. Also, you will find that almost every person who you talk to that makes 50mil+/hr from missions is using 2 or more accounts to do it.
TBH I'm not even sure why I'm continuing this debate. I don't even care about missions really. They're one of numerous ways to make isk in the game. If you don't like them, then don't do them. If you do like them, then do them. There are other ways to make isk far faster and far safer than missions. Why people bitch about missions is beyond me. The bottom line is that you can make FAR FAR FAR more isk just as safely in 0.0 as you can in highsec if you just spend 10 minutes thinking about it and practicing common sense. When I lived in 0.0 I cleared well over 100m/hr in isk when I needed to make money and I have never, not once in 4 years of play, gotten caught while PVE'ing in 0.0... never.
People who live in 0.0 that bitch about people in highsec making more isk than them, running missions of all things, are simply doing it wrong.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
You really need to talk to devoted mission runnoers to understand how they earn ISK...
Every mission runner with common sense and decent skills won't be salvaging or looting since it is a waste of time.
Why you assume that you have to run every mission, thus again waste your time?
I am sorry Taram but you speak about L4 like a noob running L1 mission for his first 2 weeks of play.
I don't think anyone was ever implying that you can make 'lots' of ISK AFK but I dare to say(like many others) 30-40M is easy to achieve semi AFK with no risk at all...
1) You can't skip every bad mission unless you are lucky enough to be doing missions in a hub that has multiple lvl 4 agents available (I think there are 2 in all of high sec?) If you aren't willing to do faction missions (where you kill enemy navy rats and thus screw your faction with the target faction and get no bounties) and you aren't willing to do drone missions (no bounties) you are going to be turning down a LOT of missions in many cases. Unless you have multiple agents you just can't turn them down often enough.
2) Now add in the "Crappy" missions that aren't worth flying because the bounties are crap (buzzkill is one, duo of death is another) where the time it takes to go to the mission and do it is counter productive to the money made in the mission.
So
3) Summary: Unless you are fortunate to have multiple agents (very close together) to run missions for OR you are running multiple accounts and sharing missions among them you CANNOT make much isk running through missions by only grabbing the 'good' ones because you have to turn too many down which ends up with you losing the agent or having to wait 4hrs to use him again. Which re-iterates my point that if you are single-boxing 1 account you cannot "average" 40mil+ per hour running missions unless you are in the one system I know of which has more than 1 level 4q18+ agent in it. Yes, it CAN be done, but not in highsec... not with just 1 account anyway.... There is another 'cluster' of systems down around Magiko (forget the specific system names) which has 2 or 3 level 4 agents in a 4 system radius. But that involves travel time which slows you down so odds of making 40mil per hour are slim, and certainly not "afk".
Note: There are MULTIPLE lowsec systems where you can get as many as 4 lvl 4 qual 18+ agents all in the same station, let alone the same system. So in lowsec it is VERY possible to make insane ammts of isk running missions just as you suggest because you can turn down multiple missions at a time by just working all 4 agents. In this way you could get blockade back-to-back 4 times in a row (or comparable payout missions) wher eyou can just go nuts on bounties.
Bottom line: Anyone who says the 'average' player in highsec makes more than the 'average' player in 0.0 is lying and playing the 'grass is greener' game. Highsec is many things... but for missions? It's a nice *easy* source of isk... but it's hardly this way to wall-street. Trade is where it's at for making sick ammts of isk. Ask anyone. In 0.0 moon mining is the king, followed by plexing followed by running anomalies followed by mining followed by ratting. (IE: Ratting in 0.0 is the LOWEST income stream available).
Also: You do realize that in 0.0 you can simply do anomalies and make absolutely absurd ammts of isk with your ship-board scanner? You are also, in that case, much safer from roaming gangs since they can't tackle you just by spamming belts or warping to you using the directional scanner to find which belt you're in. They have to actually probe you down or use their ship board scanner to find the anomalies then find the anomaly you are in. (or use a prober to do the same). Either way, you have gobs of time to get safe.
Only correction I want to make here I do not believe you have alot of time to get safe in the new system. Using probes, they can probably get you with 2-3 minutes. So while doing exploration / anomalies in 0.0 I usually just get safe. But I agree this is still worlds safer than farming the belts!
Other day I practiced probing in my covops and I pinpointed targets in 2-3 mins.
But JGMII says he can get hostiles in 2-3 mins using a square formation with another probe in the center. This is how I scan ships now as well using his method
We both could be the exception however. in my case I have a covops with rigs so that might be a hgue factor.... So i guess just make sure no covops in system if u gonna risk it.....
You verify presence of covops via watching for probes on scan. Another way that I prefer if you close enough to the gates, always keep direction scanner open, set to full range, 360 angle, and see if a covops just entered
Now deadspace mission is really nice in 0.0. Because when we try to gank some explorers other day we had to enter through the gates to get to them. so they had forever+++ to get safed. sucked for us!
2-3 minutes *is* "Gobs of time" in EVE. If you can't get safe in 2-3 minutes after a neutral jumps into a 0.0 system with you you have no business being in 0.0 in the first place. Takes less than 1 minute to travel across most systems and jump out. Anyone who stays there longer than that is hunting you.
Thank you for clarification then
I agree. People are far more likely to get ganked in low sec space. The only real time you are at risk in 0.0 space is if you have no safespots bookmarked, no cloak and were not paying attention to local as in you were afk or to impatient to allow neutrals or reds to clear out of the system before going back to what you were doing.
As for missions they are okay. You need clear missions quickly and well salvage and loot everything after a mission is over and then refine crap modules to really make "good" isk. IMHO every "HARDCORE PVPER" in EVE does some sort of carebear'ing ( mining, industry, trading, mission running, etc..) to generate ISK. There are not many people who can generate tons of isk by just pvping in EVE unless they like buying ISK from RMT services.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
THIS IS FROM A PVP'ERS PERSPECTIVE:
PvP'ers want Level 4's nerfed? Inless your just really lazy in 0.0 or just completely stupid 0.0 is so much more profitable than empire is for level 4's itleast. The amount of time you spend switching modules and ammunition and looking up the mission you have to run takes to long and half the time im caught having to warp out of the mission 3 or 4 times with a fully fit t2 raven with t2 Cruise missile launchers rigs and all. Lmao. Whoever things L4's need to be nerfed havn't taken their meds. If anything Level 4's need to pay 2x as much as they do now bounties and reward. In a week alone I made over 4 Bil in Delve before BoB got their teeth kicked in and I was in Pupule alliance.
You must have a horrible fitted Raven if you have to warp out of level 4 missions. The only "hard" level 4 mission in EVE is "enemies abound 5 of 5'.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
This is true he keeps making same arguments even tho they are irrelevant. I found myself always repeating it doesnt what the most efficient ISK is when you are away from computer
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
Null sec lackeys complaining about high sec PVE is the only thing that shows a complete lack of knowledge here. Probably laziness but that’s another thread.
If you knew half as much as you claim and were capable of fielding a combat team you would watch the point here vanish.
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
Null sec lackeys complaining about high sec PVE is the only thing that shows a complete lack of knowledge here. Probably laziness but that’s another thread.
If you knew half as much as you claim and were capable of fielding a combat team you would watch the point here vanish.
i'm quite happy with the current balance as it is, then again, i rarely venture out of 0.0.. but i have done level IV's in the past, its boring, but it does make a bit of cash if your unable to rat..
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
Null sec lackeys complaining about high sec PVE is the only thing that shows a complete lack of knowledge here. Probably laziness but that’s another thread.
If you knew half as much as you claim and were capable of fielding a combat team you would watch the point here vanish.
If we are as clueless as you claim, then surely we would not be aware that mining ores in EVE is pretty broken. I recently read an article on Massively that discussed this issue and it is alarming. High sec L4s break so many parts of this game its pretty crazy
edited so I dont get the bat
Me neither.
You are constantly ignoring arguments that were presented to point out that you only talk about the best scenerio for 0.0 ratting under circumstances you can't really control while mission profit is fully in your hands for the same or greater ISK.
And if you think you do salvage and loot on L4/ratting, it only shows how limited your knowledge about the topic is...
I have not once pointed out only the 'best' scenario for 0.0 ratting. I pointed out that EVERY aspect of life in 0.0 you can make FAR more isk than a mission runner if you spend the same ammount of time at it. And, yes, you can just as easily rat/mine/mission/plex/anomaly hunt in 0.0 "mostly afk" as well. Just have an eye on local and hit your safe if anyone shows up.
1) you can make stupid isk ratting ANYWHERE in 0.0 if you just use your shipboard scanner and do the anomalies because anomalies don't care about truesec.
2) You can make stupid isk ratting in the belts in any system below -2.5 truesec (that's well over 70% of 0.0, most of which is freaking empty, unless you live in absolutely craptastic 0.0 like providence or shallow 0.0 npc space like syndicate)
3) You can make absolutely insane isk mining anywhere in 0.0 that has one or more of the ABC ores or ICE or mercoxit or gas clouds etc.
4) Macro ratters make more isk than any mission runner hands down in almost any system in 0.0. And they are *really* afk, not just 'semi' afk
5) Plexers make more isk than any mission runner.
6) Moon miners make more isk than any mission runner.
7) Mission runners in 0.0 make more isk than any high sec mission runner AND get better implants since they can get pirate implants (ya know... slaves... halos... etc?)
Your points are totally invalid and your arguements are flawed. You keep bringing up "AFK mission running" when there is really no such thing. Yes there are domi setups that can do missions partially afk but even then the pilot needs to watch their drones, has to pay attention to know when the room is done so they can jump, has to know when the mission is done to warp back to station, has to complete the mission... has to get the next mission, has to switch their tank (unless they're omni-tanking in which case they have to be even more aware in missions because they can wind up pulling too much aggro and get popped) etc etc the list goes on.
Your logic and your arguement are flawed and you know it.
Also the premise of the entire original post is also flawed:
"PVP'ers" don't want L4's nerfed.
SOME do... but not nearly all.. in fact not even the majority.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell