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A thought.

clwoodsclwoods Member Posts: 625

I feel like America is descending into something that resembles a hybrid of tribalism, and programmed automation. Two dynamics that should be abounding in juxtaposition, but somehow, aren’t. Every time I see someone speak anymore it seems like they are going through the motions, adhering to the programming installed in them by whichever political party they’ve thrown their lot in with.



Finding solace in a group of like-minded people is certainly an understandable feeling. The problem with this isn’t the groups that we are assimilating into; it’s the automatons that so many of us seem to have become. It worries me because I was never as concerned with the prospect of George Orwell being right, as I was with the fruition of ideas proposed by Aldous Huxley. That’s where we seem to be going though. To our own brave new world.



Bi-partisanship as spoken of by our elected officials is a lie. How can they be bi-partisan when their own constituents can’t find common ground anymore? It feels like every opinion is met with demonization instead of intelligent discussion. When heated debate is a step toward polite society something has descended too close to primitivity. I see people, intelligent people, people I would respect greatly under normal circumstances, sliding further to their left or right. What happened to too much of anything is a bad thing? Can the same not be said for liberality or conservatism? When did the right decide that to decent is to treason? When did the left decide that anyone not sharing their views has to be of lesser intelligence? Anymore any political debate resembles and unstoppable force meeting an immovable object.



We need to think. We need to be open to concession and compromise. We need to pay mind to what people are saying instead of judging the merit of their opinion based on whether they have an (R) or a (D) next to their name. We need to stop being cloned social soldiers and start being people again.

 

Comments

  • ZoeMcCloskeyZoeMcCloskey Member UncommonPosts: 1,372

    Agreed

    But people can't be counted on, trusted and are not worth having faith in.  I am sure the world will go down in a big ball of flames even though all the while I hope I am wrong on all of that.

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  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359

    I agree completely.  My hope for this country is that at some point people wake up and realize what is actually going on. Vote for persons actions,principles, and what you truly feel will be best for this country, not what some group of people tells you to. 

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by clwoods

    I feel like America is descending into something that resembles a hybrid of tribalism, and programmed automation. Two dynamics that should be abounding in juxtaposition, but somehow, aren’t. Every time I see someone speak anymore it seems like they are going through the motions, adhering to the programming installed in them by whichever political party they’ve thrown their lot in with.


    The only thing that can counter this "Us vs Them" mentality that has come up in the United States over the last few decades is multiculturalism or more interracial marriages and dating.


    A bigot won't be so quick to discount someone when they are actually related to them by blood and can see they are a real human being instead of a caricature that's propped up so they can hate it. As an Independant, one thing I like about the Democrat party is that they are VERY inclusive of all races, while the Republican party clearly are not. Whenever you see the GOP in photos or talking on the television, there is no true representation in that party of what America really looks like today. They always show the same one or two tired minorities or women and say "See?"


    Thankfully this is happening more and more. I read something the other day that said interracial marriages and dating is on the rise. It's beginning to be more uncommon to be one "all of anything" anymore. This can only lead to more understanding. With the continued Hispanic immigrations, the country is going to be quickly moving to more Spanish being common. Then people like Gordon Liddy won't be referring to Spanish as the "illegal alien" language or other retarded insults.


    Multiculturalism is what will save America in the future as well as the wealth being more fairly paid on jobs for people doing the same work. Once we are all the same, no one will be different enough to cause anymore hate trouble.

    A lot of the political shouting derives from social issues, which in turn are derived from cultural and race issues. Which in turn are caused by rich/poor class issues. When we solve the root problem, which is money and wealth and who controls it, the political solution will be easy.


  • declaredemerdeclaredemer Member Posts: 2,698

    I do not share the idea that we have a "race problem" in the United States.  I have studied abroad in Europe and Latin America, and there are some serious (serious) racial issues.  We have the illusion of a racial problem in the United States.

     

     

    We have another illusion:  economic social harmony.  Many Americans experience social anxiety, I believe, over their class, because they are, as the OP said, "programmed" into certain beliefs and values.  I read somewhere today in a thread I created how someone was "embarrassed" because they are unemployed.  We have a culture that is very class-conscious, yet we cannot speak intelligently or courageously about it.  People put, people are ashamed or "embarrassed" and feel inadequate about their class.  And it leads to irresponsible spending habits (please see the outrageously ridiculous cars and houses people spend money they do not have on).  I agreed, in fact, with Attorney General Holder when he said "we are a nation of cowards" when it comes to discussing certain issues, viz. class and race.

     

     

    Our upside-down economic, tax, and foreign policies are not sustainable.  No one has to believe me.  In fact, I could not care less if people believe or do not believe me.  I once said Americans better get smart or tough - quick.  I think Americans better get smarter or tougher even quicker.

     

     

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by declaredemer

    I do not share the idea that we have a "race problem" in the United States.  I have studied abroad in Europe and Latin America, and there are some serious (serious) racial issues.  We have the illusion of a racial problem in the United States.
     


    We do not have a "serious" race problem in the United States. We had our "serious" one in the Sixties already. That's done already. But we do still have a race problem, although it's not people killing each other in the streets.


    I think those remaining race problems now come from the class structure where you have the lower class races fighting over jobs and getting mixed messages from the media and believing most of it. They are set on each other and kept squabbling over pennies while the richer classes laugh and divide up the dollars.


    Listening to the Republican party and their megaphones these past few weeks about Sotomayor and "race" shows there still is a race problem being put forth by political parties for gain, to keep people at each other's throats for distractions.

    Those lower classes think the bigger problem is race, while the actual bigger problem is wealth.

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359

    I completely disagree that it is wealth, or race that divdies us, It is control vs freedom, and education vs street.   I come from the Best and worst of both worlds.  I am one of 10 children from the same two parents. I am  #3 of 10. My father worked 3 jobs most of his life, was paralyzied for 2 years, and is well educated. I grew up in the wealthiest per sq ft county in the state of Texas. I have been supporting myself, and living on  my own since I was 15. I have lived everywhere from "the hood"  to the mansion and I can tell you, that people are the same regardless of income, race, and gender. Some are materialistic, some are not. Everything I have in this world I have earned myself.

    Even in the hood, you have future doctors, and you have future gangstas. It is a matter of what they value. The gangsta type regardless of income place value on material gain, what they have, whether it be power in their eyes or "loot" to show for their efforts. Those that are not place value on what they are capable of, what they can do to help make this world a better place, what drives them is much deeper than gold chains, or fear in the eyes of others. I have seen a bilionaires son become a gangsta and a girl from the hood become a doctor.

    What it boils down to for the most part is priorities, and how we go about achieving our goals. IS freedom important enough to protect, or is security and control more important than freedom? This is the hardest question to answer. For the most part people Just want to live their lives, raise families ( if that is their dream) or live out their ambitions and have everyone else stay out of it, it is their life they want to be able to determine how to live it.  Then they feel that others whether it be criminals or government are interefering with their goals.

    I agree there is give and take in this and there has to be middle ground. We cannot be so willing to sacrifice our freedom for safety, and we cannot alos turn a blind eye to taking care of our nations elderly and ill.  Most of our differences is more along the lines of how things are accomplished rather than what needs to be accomplished as far as political platforms are concerned.

    I may come back and read this post and realize it was all over the place.  Yes, I have been drinking tonight, again, I had another difficult week. All I am going to say about that is when  a child dies before their time, due to ignorance of parents even when there are warnings all over the place telling them this is not a safe thing to do, and they still leave a candle by a crib... It makes for a lot of heart break.

     PS. Pop, you idea that "one race or income level" would solve anything is so far off base. People of all races still find much to disagree with regardless of income or race, they can't just " get along". you will still have messy vs neat, materialistic vs saintly, and educated vs street regardless of anything you  attempt to do to change that.

  • WickershamWickersham Member UncommonPosts: 2,379

    So, you want to smash the old institutions and traditions in America while at the same time also smashing the newer industries that turn a profit from dividing you into 2 camps?  How do you expect to do that when the people that benefit from the status quo are the ones with the microphones?

    "The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539

    I think this "control vs freedom" isn't anything at all. It's just rhetoric most people don't even understand. There are times when people can put forth good common sense issues and make laws on them. Usually those are the smaller, more easier issues to see.

    California has about as much state's rights as any state in the nation... and a prime example of why sometimes it's not a good idea to let inmates run the asylum.

    California has the right to put just about anything on a ballot initiative just by gathering petitions. Those petitions then get put on ballots and average Joe Workingguy votes on them.

    "Do you hate taxes? Vote here to defeat the government from raising your taxes. It's our right not to pay more and if you vote NO, you won't have to."


    So Joe Public votes NO, and California now is bankrupt, lol. They have no way of getting their budget fixed other than major slashes everywhere, which will create a bigger problem. In this case, the people were not right but because they "chose" NO new taxes, now they will be asking the federal government to help them with funds. Wtf?

    Same thing with all the people trying to interject Christianity in the laws and courthouses. They want to admit the Bible there, but not the Koran. Buy allowing Christianity mixed in with laws, you are setting yourself up one day for Koranic law to perhaps one day set precedent. (Women must have their heads covered) or Catholic law, or Buddist law. All it takes is for the majority in this case to say "Yes, we want Islamic values added" and that could one day happen based on how fast Islam is growing worldwide.

    People don't always have the right answers. Usually, they just muddy up things worse.

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586

    People try to copy what they see on TV. People believe everything they see on TV. As long as people keep feeding stereotypes nothing much will change. Why try to do something different when people just find it easier to act like others?

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
    Originally posted by popinjay


    I think this "control vs freedom" isn't anything at all. It's just rhetoric most people don't even understand. There are times when people can put forth good common sense issues and make laws on them. Usually those are the smaller, more easier issues to see.
     
     
    California has about as much state's rights as any state in the nation... and a prime example of why sometimes it's not a good idea to let inmates run the asylum.
     
     
    California has the right to put just about anything on a ballot initiative just by gathering petitions. Those petitions then get put on ballots and average Joe Workingguy votes on them.
     
     
     
    "Do you hate taxes? Vote here to defeat the government from raising your taxes. It's our right not to pay more and if you vote NO, you won't have to."
     


    So Joe Public votes NO, and California now is bankrupt, lol. They have no way of getting their budget fixed other than major slashes everywhere, which will create a bigger problem. In this case, the people were not right but because they "chose" NO new taxes, now they will be asking the federal government to help them with funds. Wtf?
     
     
    Same thing with all the people trying to interject Christianity in the laws and courthouses. They want to admit the Bible there, but not the Koran. Buy allowing Christianity mixed in with laws, you are setting yourself up one day for Koranic law to perhaps one day set precedent. (Women must have their heads covered) or Catholic law, or Buddist law. All it takes is for the majority in this case to say "Yes, we want Islamic values added" and that could one day happen based on how fast Islam is growing worldwide.
     
     
    People don't always have the right answers. Usually, they just muddy up things worse.

     

    Control vs freedom IS a major issue for much of the population. It boils down to "Who are you to tell me what I am going to do?" and "Who are you to make me feel unsecure because you want to do what you want to do?"  That is a core issue, just as you say guns "are dangerous and should be banned" the other side says "it is their life, their decision, and they have a right to defend their families." You yourself have argued about control vs freedom, and you are not alone in this. Everyone from the neighbor down the street who refuses to mow their lawn to the other neighbors who say it is a fire hazard and an eye sore. This is one of the core issues dividing our country. 

     

     

  • clwoodsclwoods Member Posts: 625
    Originally posted by popinjay


    I think this "control vs freedom" isn't anything at all. It's just rhetoric most people don't even understand. There are times when people can put forth good common sense issues and make laws on them. Usually those are the smaller, more easier issues to see.
     
     
    California has about as much state's rights as any state in the nation... and a prime example of why sometimes it's not a good idea to let inmates run the asylum.
     
     
    California has the right to put just about anything on a ballot initiative just by gathering petitions. Those petitions then get put on ballots and average Joe Workingguy votes on them.
     
     
     
    "Do you hate taxes? Vote here to defeat the government from raising your taxes. It's our right not to pay more and if you vote NO, you won't have to."
     


    So Joe Public votes NO, and California now is bankrupt, lol. They have no way of getting their budget fixed other than major slashes everywhere, which will create a bigger problem. In this case, the people were not right but because they "chose" NO new taxes, now they will be asking the federal government to help them with funds. Wtf?
     
     
    Same thing with all the people trying to interject Christianity in the laws and courthouses. They want to admit the Bible there, but not the Koran. Buy allowing Christianity mixed in with laws, you are setting yourself up one day for Koranic law to perhaps one day set precedent. (Women must have their heads covered) or Catholic law, or Buddist law. All it takes is for the majority in this case to say "Yes, we want Islamic values added" and that could one day happen based on how fast Islam is growing worldwide.
     
     
    People don't always have the right answers. Usually, they just muddy up things worse.

    People may not always have the best answer, but, because decisions rest on the shoulders of the people I would hope that they make their decisions based on critical thinking, instead of the status quo of their selected affiliates.

    You mention the Christians that would see the Bible being made law. My point extends to this. People have to realize that some biblical laws would be ridiculous and unenforceable. The fifth commandment for example, could not be made into law. What would be the penalty for taking Gods name in vain? None, it would defy reason to make this a law, yet how can we make any of them laws, citing the bible as the source for the law, if we didn’t include all of them? That’s critical thinking. That’s looking past your allegiance to a sect and thinking for yourself.

    Like it or not, all laws, all city ordinances, all government decisions are, by extent, made by the common citizens of America. We vote for, and elect, the people who make these decisions. We have a choice in who we put into power. You don’t have to give someone authority over you just because they represent themselves with an elephant, or a mule. It’s alright to make decisions on your own.

     

     

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by clwoods

    People may not always have the best answer, but, because decisions rest on the shoulders of the people I would hope that they make their decisions based on critical thinking, instead of the status quo of their selected affiliates.
    You mention the Christians that would see the Bible being made law. My point extends to this. People have to realize that some biblical laws would be ridiculous and unenforceable. The fifth commandment for example, could not be made into law. What would be the penalty for taking Gods name in vain? None, it would defy reason to make this a law, yet how can we make any of them laws, citing the bible as the source for the law, if we didn’t include all of them? That’s critical thinking. That’s looking past your allegiance to a sect and thinking for yourself.
    Like it or not, all laws, all city ordinances, all government decisions are, by extent, made by the common citizens of America. We vote for, and elect, the people who make these decisions. We have a choice in who we put into power. You don’t have to give someone authority over you just because they represent themselves with an elephant, or a mule. It’s alright to make decisions on your own.


    Most decisions really don't rest on the shoulders of the people really.


    Most towns or city have local boards, with power resting with them solely. One town will have 50,000 people that have their decisions made by 5 people. Another may have 150,000 decided by 13. In the majority of places where there are real budgets (not talking about a town with the same mindset pretty much, like Podunk, Noplace pop. 4,000) it is squarely out of the hands of the people. People vote representatives to local government and they are the ones who formulate how to spend monies and on what.

    People have even less of say when it comes to laws and federal government. Even the Supreme Court is powerless to make law. People do not make laws. People can suggest bills to their congressmen, but those bills can be shut down by the representatives, congressmen, senators; even if all of the people disagree and want the law. Most of the people in the United States hate taxes, but if they asked their congressmen to present a bill saying tax payments are voluntary, that would never make law. The powers that be would never allow it, no matter what the people wanted.

    Decisions don't really rest on the people; that's one of the illusions we've always had with our government from inception. It's kind of like how Avis says it's employees are really the owners; Joe the Baggage Handler is the CEO. Kind of misleading when they tell all of us that.

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