I can see the thread has taken a more hostile tone... Yes the killing of a doctor that performs abortions is horrible. Is that all the justification you need to group an entire faith into the toilet?
If you think yes, then you are the biggot. period.
I love how when a person does something and then claims God as their ally, you people just lump us all together. Anti abortion, anti gay, anti X topic of the day.
You guys think christians are sheep, well it certainly looks from this thread like it's just the same on the other side of the fence.
Except I can say from my experience that it wasn't atheists who helped out the cancer patient when they were dying a slow pained death, it was the people who claim to have a mandate, Christians, that were at her side holding her hand as she drew her last breath. It wasn't atheists there helping me back when I had no car to get to work, but christians that showed up at my door with a new car and the keys to it.
You love to point fingers at some douche bag and then denounce every one of them, it's ok for you guys to do it, but you sure love to point that out for everyone else don't you?
I keep it to myself, but I am happy to share my beliefs with those who WANT to hear about them.
Otherwise i keep my beliefs to MYSELF.
Any other policy is offensive and WILL lead to conflict.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
I can see the thread has taken a more hostile tone... Yes the killing of a doctor that performs abortions is horrible. Is that all the justification you need to group an entire faith into the toilet? If you think yes, then you are the biggot. period. I love how when a person does something and then claims God as their ally, you people just lump us all together. <shortened> You guys think christians are sheep, <shortened> <shortened> You love to point fingers at some douche bag and then denounce every one of them, it's ok for you guys to do it, but you sure love to point that out for everyone else don't you? *rolls eyes*
For someone who claims to rally against being lumped together you are certainly quick to lump us together. Perhaps you should look into the mirror before you denounce someone for something you just did.
As for your claims, you aren't wrong, but you aren't right either. Religion has no right or wrong, but it's christians who claim to have that exclusive insight. Prove me wrong and I'll shut up, until then I am entitled to my opinion.
Except I can say from my experience that it wasn't atheists who helped out the cancer patient when they were dying a slow pained death, it was the people who claim to have a mandate, Christians, that were at her side holding her hand as she drew her last breath. It wasn't atheists there helping me back when I had no car to get to work, but christians that showed up at my door with a new car and the keys to it.
I work in a hospital and have stayed with many terminal patients and their families during the last hours.
NOTHING is more offensive and intrusive than the christians that come in and try to "get someone to accept jesus christ as their personal savior" when they have no desire to hear about it.
Evangelism is malignant regardless of whether you are christian, muslim, or a member of the "manson family."
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Except I can say from my experience that it wasn't atheists who helped out the cancer patient when they were dying a slow pained death, it was the people who claim to have a mandate, Christians, that were at her side holding her hand as she drew her last breath. It wasn't atheists there helping me back when I had no car to get to work, but christians that showed up at my door with a new car and the keys to it.
I work in a hospital and have stayed with many terminal patients and their families during the last hours.
NOTHING is more offensive and intrusive than the christians that come in and try to "get someone to accept jesus christ as their personal savior" when they have no desire to hear about it.
Evangelism is malignant regardless of whether you are christian, muslim, or a member of the "manson family."
This is worth having posted twice Enkindu.
For all your lumping Faxxer you act like athiests don't work in hospitals, or hospices, that they don't serve public office or work in homeless shelters. So who are you to flame anyone for lumping christians together? Life is about generalities, I don't see you attacking SOME of us, or saying that SOME christians are bad and that SOME Muslims are good. So you want to stand up and lash back at SOME of us, than why aren't you saying SOME of us are guilty of lumping. Life is about generalities, if you can't refer to a group as a group, than you can't talk about life.
This is nothing new. Religion has always used fear and intimidation to not only recruit new members but to keep their current members in line. After all what is the basis of all religion? A basic human fear of the unknown. Religion has used this basic human fear since it's inception. In fact it's the basis that all religion is founded on. Religion is used to explain the unexplainable. If you don't know... God did it. It's an easy catch all and humans have always been known to take the path of least resistance.
I once got into a debate with a Catholic friend of mine over her religion actually being polytheistic. After she got totally flustered because she couldn't rationally argue any of my points she ended it by saying, "You think too much to be religious.". To which I replied, "Thanks, I think thats the nicest thing you've ever said to me!". - LOL
Bren
SO VERY TRUE, but just because it's always been doesn't mean it always has to be. I just think a gigantic banner ad in downtown with that image and that message is going over the proverbial line. Afterall isn't it Christianity that is suppose to teach love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, and all that other stuff. They claim some kind of divine guidance in advertising the 'Lord' but they do it in the most base manner, sinking to lowest lvl they can reach. That is hardly a behavior that encourages the precepts of forgiveness from those with 'the moral high ground'. Path of least resistance is not what I want from a religion, that would be like giving the child-molesting priests a free pass into heaven.
p.s. Lol, I would have to say the same thing as you. ^^
If you take the fear of the unknown out of religion then it has no purpose. Religion as we know it would die out and no religious sect is going to allow that to happen. They thrive because of it. As long as there is religion it will continue to feed on people's fear of the unknown. Religion has absolutely nothing to stand on other than this. You call it sinking to the lowest level but they simply see it as God saving them from that which they don't fully understand. Without fear there would be no religion... period.
I can see the thread has taken a more hostile tone... Yes the killing of a doctor that performs abortions is horrible. Is that all the justification you need to group an entire faith into the toilet? If you think yes, then you are the biggot. period. I love how when a person does something and then claims God as their ally, you people just lump us all together. Anti abortion, anti gay, anti X topic of the day. You guys think christians are sheep, well it certainly looks from this thread like it's just the same on the other side of the fence. Except I can say from my experience that it wasn't atheists who helped out the cancer patient when they were dying a slow pained death, it was the people who claim to have a mandate, Christians, that were at her side holding her hand as she drew her last breath. It wasn't atheists there helping me back when I had no car to get to work, but christians that showed up at my door with a new car and the keys to it. You love to point fingers at some douche bag and then denounce every one of them, it's ok for you guys to do it, but you sure love to point that out for everyone else don't you? *rolls eyes*
You're rallying against Atheists for doing to you what you seem to be doing to them. It's irritating isn't it?
I can see the thread has taken a more hostile tone... Yes the killing of a doctor that performs abortions is horrible. Is that all the justification you need to group an entire faith into the toilet? If you think yes, then you are the biggot. period. I love how when a person does something and then claims God as their ally, you people just lump us all together. Anti abortion, anti gay, anti X topic of the day. You guys think christians are sheep, well it certainly looks from this thread like it's just the same on the other side of the fence. Except I can say from my experience that it wasn't atheists who helped out the cancer patient when they were dying a slow pained death, it was the people who claim to have a mandate, Christians, that were at her side holding her hand as she drew her last breath. It wasn't atheists there helping me back when I had no car to get to work, but christians that showed up at my door with a new car and the keys to it. You love to point fingers at some douche bag and then denounce every one of them, it's ok for you guys to do it, but you sure love to point that out for everyone else don't you? *rolls eyes*
You just lumped all atheists together, and in turn did the same thing you were going against.
I go to a Unitarian/Universalist Church. We do not imply that anyone is not welcome in our church. And we have a lot of different people from all different kinds of denominations and religions. And yes, we have some atheists and agnostics in our church as well.
You might find that strange, a lot of people do. But our church's main belief is in doing good for the community. The whole religious factor comes second. The human factor comes first. That is why a person like an atheist can walk into our church, listen to one of our preachers sermons, and never feel like he/she is out of place.
That being said, we do a lot of community service. And those atheists that you just lumped together as being non-caring or apathetic to others are just as committed to the help and lending a hand as others. It does not take religion to make a person do something good. It does not take Christianity either.
What the ad is trying to explain is that Atheist have no morals because Atheists don't answer to God. This is a lack of understanding of the basics of what morals are.
I'm not surprised the billboard is from answer in genesis. Answer in Genesis is nothing more then Creationist propeganda. It's well known for it's misinformation and outright lies.
Get baptized, go to church, give to charity, live a moral life, say your prayers at night, still contract cancerous tumors the size of baseballs that God refuses to heal despite the prayers of your neighbors and family, die a painful meaningless death. Yeah, sounds like your God really loves you... en stuff....
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
Except I can say from my experience that it wasn't atheists who helped out the cancer patient when they were dying a slow pained death, it was the people who claim to have a mandate, Christians, that were at her side holding her hand as she drew her last breath. It wasn't atheists there helping me back when I had no car to get to work, but christians that showed up at my door with a new car and the keys to it.
Funny, I have an anecdotal story to the opposite.
When i was in the hosipital, my friends came to see me, and they weren't christian.
When my uncle was homeless the church took him in, but wanted him to join the faith... The homeless shelter didn't.. They were there for him and they asked nothing in return.
1 story doenst constitute conclusive evidence.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Get baptized, go to church, give to charity, live a moral life, say your prayers at night, still gain an illness that makes life completely miserable God refuses to heal despite the prayers of your neighbors and family, lives a long, painful life Yeah, sounds like your God really loves you... en stuff....
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
I changed the post you quoted, lets see you come up with an excuse for this one.
Get baptized, go to church, give to charity, live a moral life, say your prayers at night, still gain an illness that makes life completely miserable God refuses to heal despite the prayers of your neighbors and family, lives a long, painful life Yeah, sounds like your God really loves you... en stuff....
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
I changed the post you quoted, lets see you come up with an excuse for this one.
Well if you had an illness that made you really miserable but didn't kill you kickly, the illness couldn't be too bad. Usually if an illness is making someone completely miserable then it is certain they are going to die quite soon. Also if you have an illness for a long amount of time, within that time period one should try to come up with a solution or cure by lifestyle changes/diet to heal oneself. Also illness's usually come from not properly taking care of yourself and not being concious of certain behaviours. Now if It is a problem at birth, Is that Gods fault or the Parents fault for not being careful enough with their own health?
Also, can health really exist without the duality of disease? Can Day exist without Night?
I still believe that whatever the Superpower was that created this earth, all these negative qualities of life are their for variety and contrast to make things more interesting as well. Think about something for a minute, could you watch a love story movie without any action in it etc for 10+hrs? Probably would not be too enjoyable. Now think about watching a love story for 10000000000000 Billion + years, that would be somewhat difficult.
So how it is justified then, that we are Gods puppets and entertainers without our own agreement by our own will to take on birth? That would seem highly unfair, but I suppose their is a great reward after death for all the earthly pain we endure.
Get baptized, go to church, give to charity, live a moral life, say your prayers at night, still gain an illness that makes life completely miserable God refuses to heal despite the prayers of your neighbors and family, lives a long, painful life Yeah, sounds like your God really loves you... en stuff....
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
I changed the post you quoted, lets see you come up with an excuse for this one.
Well if you had an illness that made you really miserable but didn't kill you kickly, the illness couldn't be too bad. Usually if an illness is making someone completely miserable then it is certain they are going to die quite soon. Also if you have an illness for a long amount of time, within that time period one should try to come up with a solution or cure by lifestyle changes/diet to heal oneself. Also illness's usually come from not properly taking care of yourself and not being concious of certain behaviours. Now if It is a problem at birth, Is that Gods fault or the Parents fault for not being careful enough with their own health?
Also, can health really exist without the duality of disease? Can Day exist without Night?
I still believe that whatever the Superpower was that created this earth, all these negative qualities of life are their for variety and contrast to make things more interesting as well. Think about something for a minute, could you watch a love story movie without any action in it etc for 10+hrs? Probably would not be too enjoyable. Now think about watching a love story for 10000000000000 Billion + years, that would be somewhat difficult.
So how it is justified then, that we are Gods puppets and entertainers without our own agreement by our own will to take on birth? That would seem highly unfair, but I suppose their is a great reward after death for all the earthly pain we endure.
I can assure you that there are plenty of diseases that don't kill you but can make life very, very miserable. Also, you do understand that many issues gained at birth have very little to do with the health of the parents, right?
There is no logical explanation for bad things happening to good people from a theist standpoint. I'm talking about diseases here, but it could be any bad thing happening to a good person.
Well if you had an illness that made you really miserable but didn't kill you kickly, the illness couldn't be too bad. Usually if an illness is making someone completely miserable then it is certain they are going to die quite soon. Also if you have an illness for a long amount of time, within that time period one should try to come up with a solution or cure by lifestyle changes/diet to heal oneself. Also illness's usually come from not properly taking care of yourself and not being concious of certain behaviours. Now if It is a problem at birth, Is that Gods fault or the Parents fault for not being careful enough with their own health?
Also, can health really exist without the duality of disease? Can Day exist without Night?
I still believe that whatever the Superpower was that created this earth, all these negative qualities of life are their for variety and contrast to make things more interesting as well. Think about something for a minute, could you watch a love story movie without any action in it etc for 10+hrs? Probably would not be too enjoyable. Now think about watching a love story for 10000000000000 Billion + years, that would be somewhat difficult.
So how it is justified then, that we are Gods puppets and entertainers without our own agreement by our own will to take on birth? That would seem highly unfair, but I suppose their is a great reward after death for all the earthly pain we endure.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
You do have a good point, and I know this diverts from a certain line of discussion, but you spoke of a 1000000000000000 + billion year love story. Isn't that basically the popular concept of Heaven?
Get baptized, go to church, give to charity, live a moral life, say your prayers at night, still contract cancerous tumors the size of baseballs that God refuses to heal despite the prayers of your neighbors and family, die a painful meaningless death. Yeah, sounds like your God really loves you... en stuff....
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
Yep, God expressed his love with endless months of agonizing physical pain, the terror of dying and the unhealable emptyness left in the hearts of every person that individual knew and loved.
Get baptized, go to church, give to charity, live a moral life, say your prayers at night, still gain an illness that makes life completely miserable God refuses to heal despite the prayers of your neighbors and family, lives a long, painful life Yeah, sounds like your God really loves you... en stuff....
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
I changed the post you quoted, lets see you come up with an excuse for this one.
Or, you know, God 'loving' everyone enough to bring on heavenly mandated genocide. The Holocaust was just a show of how much God 'loves' his chosen people.
Argument is full of holes, friend.
But anyways, I think people need to take a chill pill and recall the reason why someone chooses a religion to begin with (and I do mean CHOOSE). It gives them comfort and closure about the unknown, and the way things work. That's all a religion is, and the theories are too many to list. Maybe it's time that the Western religions begin to practice the humility which they claim to preach.
Originally posted by NeverLand7 Well if you had an illness that made you really miserable but didn't kill you kickly, the illness couldn't be too bad. Usually if an illness is making someone completely miserable then it is certain they are going to die quite soon. Also if you have an illness for a long amount of time, within that time period one should try to come up with a solution or cure by lifestyle changes/diet to heal oneself. Also illness's usually come from not properly taking care of yourself and not being concious of certain behaviours. Now if It is a problem at birth, Is that Gods fault or the Parents fault for not being careful enough with their own health?
Not commenting on the rest of your post, but this paragraph is a bit naiive. Work in healthcare for any amount of time and you will see that there many people with non-fatal chronic illnesses that make them miserable. There are many illnesses with behavioral causes, but there are many that appear quite randomly.
It gets frustrating dealing with the mindset that sick people "must have done something to bring it upon themselves."
Lifestyle modification could fix a great number of the health problems that we have, but there are plenty of random, cruel twists of fate.
Think of the infant with the random oncogene mutation, the patient with idiopathic trigeminal neuralgia, or the patient with intractable neurogenic pain after a car accident.
Another thing that annoys me about the "magical thinking of the faithful" is that suffering is the will of god. I call bullcrap on that.. Suffering is something that can be completely random, something that must often be endured, and something that compassionate people strive to alleviate in others.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Quoted from Neverland7 Well if you had an illness that made you really miserable but didn't kill you kickly, the illness couldn't be too bad. Usually if an illness is making someone completely miserable then it is certain they are going to die quite soon. Also if you have an illness for a long amount of time, within that time period one should try to come up with a solution or cure by lifestyle changes/diet to heal oneself. Also illness's usually come from not properly taking care of yourself and not being concious of certain behaviours. Now if It is a problem at birth, Is that Gods fault or the Parents fault for not being careful enough with their own health? Also, can health really exist without the duality of disease? Can Day exist without Night? I still believe that whatever the Superpower was that created this earth, all these negative qualities of life are their for variety and contrast to make things more interesting as well. Think about something for a minute, could you watch a love story movie without any action in it etc for 10+hrs? Probably would not be too enjoyable. Now think about watching a love story for 10000000000000 Billion + years, that would be somewhat difficult. So how it is justified then, that we are Gods puppets and entertainers without our own agreement by our own will to take on birth? That would seem highly unfair, but I suppose their is a great reward after death for all the earthly pain we endure.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ You do have a good point, and I know this diverts from a certain line of discussion, but you spoke of a 1000000000000000 + billion year love story. Isn't that basically the popular concept of Heaven? Sorry for wandering off topic.
Well most concepts of Heaven are a little rough and not very elaborate. Buddhists believe that there are multiple Heavens and that they are as transient as the earth. While Christianity says it is the abode of God and is a place of immortality and eternal happiness and life. I still think that a person would have to be a little cocky to claim that they know exactly what goes on in Heaven or that there is only the earth and the heavens and no other worlds beyond the earth.
If god doesn't matter to someone, then you won't matter to that someone as well. That's what I take away from that sign. I'm trying to determine which propaganda techniques this banner has employed.
Demonizing the enemy: Making individuals from the opposing nation, from a different ethnic group, or those who support the opposing viewpoint appear to be subhuman, worthless, or immoral, through suggestion or false accusations.
Appeal to fear: Appeals to fear seek to build support by instilling anxieties and panic in the general population.
Black-And-White Fallacy: Presenting only two choices, with the product or idea being propagated as the better choice. (e.g., "You are either with us, or you are with the enemy")
Card-stacking: Choosing only specific, favorable points that support a cause and ignoring the unfavorable points.
I remember having a discussion with a preacher about faith. He told me a murderer and a rapist that has faith in god and truly repents for his sins can go to heaven in the afterlife. He told me someone who sacrifices much of his own life for the benefit of others will go to hell if he lacks faith in god. That makes disbelief in god the ultimate sin. I cannot express my floccinaucinihilipilification enough for such an exigent god in this world. Heaven and hell are right here on Earth, not in the afterlife.
I can see the thread has taken a more hostile tone... Yes the killing of a doctor that performs abortions is horrible. Is that all the justification you need to group an entire faith into the toilet? If you think yes, then you are the biggot. period. I love how when a person does something and then claims God as their ally, you people just lump us all together. Anti abortion, anti gay, anti X topic of the day. You guys think christians are sheep, well it certainly looks from this thread like it's just the same on the other side of the fence. Except I can say from my experience that it wasn't atheists who helped out the cancer patient when they were dying a slow pained death, it was the people who claim to have a mandate, Christians, that were at her side holding her hand as she drew her last breath. It wasn't atheists there helping me back when I had no car to get to work, but christians that showed up at my door with a new car and the keys to it. You love to point fingers at some douche bag and then denounce every one of them, it's ok for you guys to do it, but you sure love to point that out for everyone else don't you? *rolls eyes*
You all believe in a magic invisible man in the sky, who one day poofed into existence and decided to make something out of nothing(HURR DURR WUTS EQUIVELENT XCHANGE?????). THEN you have the AUDACITY to base your beliefs(more like overactive imaginations amirite?) on a book written a long time ago in a mudhut far far away.
Yeah, no. I think we're not far off when we say that you're all shithouse crazy.
<shortened> Black-And-White Fallacy: Presenting only two choices, with the product or idea being propagated as the better choice. (e.g., "You are either with us, or you are with the enemy") Card-stacking: Choosing only specific, favorable points that support a cause and ignoring the unfavorable points. <shortened>
Two good options that haven't been mentioned yet, but just as valid points as 'the religion is fear' arguement that has been raging for a while.
There is no logical explanation for bad things happening to good people from a theist standpoint. I'm talking about diseases here, but it could be any bad thing happening to a good person.
Think of it this way. What if you were able to live for 10000000000 billion + years and your favorite thing to do was gaming. Now lets say you had acsess to only one game at the time being. Such as Everquest or World of Warcraft. Now what if you were to play that game for 100000billion years, half of your lifespan and lets say they never release an expansion. Would not you be sickly bored to death of the game? Obviously you would want expansions that would include different and unique content compared to what was originally there. People can barely play an MMORPG for over a couple years without getting tired and atleast wanting expansions with different content. Now what about if you had 10000000000 billion years to play, I'm sure you would get awfully bored. Now think about if there was a SuperPower being that created this world, sure he could've created a small, healthy and tight nit family that are immortal and live in a radiant star world that had no pain. But after 10000000000000000000000+ billion years of living there, would it not get a little old? People can barley commit to playing a game that they would call their favorite for more than a couple years without wanting to try something new.
If there was no pain, death or diseases, gaming and many other things probably would have never been created or exist. If there was only bliss and perfect health, we would probably be as still as a tree and just feel good all day. Also where would the adventure be? If only good existed, there could be no antagonist to create a story or game out of. There would be no reason to do anything other then be perfectly still in feeling good.
To see physical reality as the only truth when it is in fact transient and put the utmost importance on our five external senses, well then I would say that is somewhat of a synthetic, artificial and shallow perspective.
So yeah, maybe taking on birth is a gamble but you can't say it did not create some interesting times. Instead of focusing on all the negatives that can come with life we should try and look a little more at the positives. A lot of people are living well.
Comments
I can see the thread has taken a more hostile tone... Yes the killing of a doctor that performs abortions is horrible. Is that all the justification you need to group an entire faith into the toilet?
If you think yes, then you are the biggot. period.
I love how when a person does something and then claims God as their ally, you people just lump us all together. Anti abortion, anti gay, anti X topic of the day.
You guys think christians are sheep, well it certainly looks from this thread like it's just the same on the other side of the fence.
Except I can say from my experience that it wasn't atheists who helped out the cancer patient when they were dying a slow pained death, it was the people who claim to have a mandate, Christians, that were at her side holding her hand as she drew her last breath. It wasn't atheists there helping me back when I had no car to get to work, but christians that showed up at my door with a new car and the keys to it.
You love to point fingers at some douche bag and then denounce every one of them, it's ok for you guys to do it, but you sure love to point that out for everyone else don't you?
*rolls eyes*
I have a deep and abiding faith.
I keep it to myself, but I am happy to share my beliefs with those who WANT to hear about them.
Otherwise i keep my beliefs to MYSELF.
Any other policy is offensive and WILL lead to conflict.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
For someone who claims to rally against being lumped together you are certainly quick to lump us together. Perhaps you should look into the mirror before you denounce someone for something you just did.
As for your claims, you aren't wrong, but you aren't right either. Religion has no right or wrong, but it's christians who claim to have that exclusive insight. Prove me wrong and I'll shut up, until then I am entitled to my opinion.
I work in a hospital and have stayed with many terminal patients and their families during the last hours.
NOTHING is more offensive and intrusive than the christians that come in and try to "get someone to accept jesus christ as their personal savior" when they have no desire to hear about it.
Evangelism is malignant regardless of whether you are christian, muslim, or a member of the "manson family."
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
I work in a hospital and have stayed with many terminal patients and their families during the last hours.
NOTHING is more offensive and intrusive than the christians that come in and try to "get someone to accept jesus christ as their personal savior" when they have no desire to hear about it.
Evangelism is malignant regardless of whether you are christian, muslim, or a member of the "manson family."
This is worth having posted twice Enkindu.
For all your lumping Faxxer you act like athiests don't work in hospitals, or hospices, that they don't serve public office or work in homeless shelters. So who are you to flame anyone for lumping christians together? Life is about generalities, I don't see you attacking SOME of us, or saying that SOME christians are bad and that SOME Muslims are good. So you want to stand up and lash back at SOME of us, than why aren't you saying SOME of us are guilty of lumping. Life is about generalities, if you can't refer to a group as a group, than you can't talk about life.
SO VERY TRUE, but just because it's always been doesn't mean it always has to be. I just think a gigantic banner ad in downtown with that image and that message is going over the proverbial line. Afterall isn't it Christianity that is suppose to teach love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, and all that other stuff. They claim some kind of divine guidance in advertising the 'Lord' but they do it in the most base manner, sinking to lowest lvl they can reach. That is hardly a behavior that encourages the precepts of forgiveness from those with 'the moral high ground'. Path of least resistance is not what I want from a religion, that would be like giving the child-molesting priests a free pass into heaven.
p.s. Lol, I would have to say the same thing as you. ^^
If you take the fear of the unknown out of religion then it has no purpose. Religion as we know it would die out and no religious sect is going to allow that to happen. They thrive because of it. As long as there is religion it will continue to feed on people's fear of the unknown. Religion has absolutely nothing to stand on other than this. You call it sinking to the lowest level but they simply see it as God saving them from that which they don't fully understand. Without fear there would be no religion... period.
Bren
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Another good point Bren, not going to get into a debate with you about fear though, we'd be going at it all night, I can tell ^^.
You're rallying against Atheists for doing to you what you seem to be doing to them. It's irritating isn't it?
You just lumped all atheists together, and in turn did the same thing you were going against.
I go to a Unitarian/Universalist Church. We do not imply that anyone is not welcome in our church. And we have a lot of different people from all different kinds of denominations and religions. And yes, we have some atheists and agnostics in our church as well.
You might find that strange, a lot of people do. But our church's main belief is in doing good for the community. The whole religious factor comes second. The human factor comes first. That is why a person like an atheist can walk into our church, listen to one of our preachers sermons, and never feel like he/she is out of place.
That being said, we do a lot of community service. And those atheists that you just lumped together as being non-caring or apathetic to others are just as committed to the help and lending a hand as others. It does not take religion to make a person do something good. It does not take Christianity either.
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What the ad is trying to explain is that Atheist have no morals because Atheists don't answer to God. This is a lack of understanding of the basics of what morals are.
I'm not surprised the billboard is from answer in genesis. Answer in Genesis is nothing more then Creationist propeganda. It's well known for it's misinformation and outright lies.
For more info:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answers_in_Genesis#Criticism
And an example of their tactics:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answers_in_Genesis#Controversy_over_interview_with_Richard_Dawkins
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
Funny, I have an anecdotal story to the opposite.
When i was in the hosipital, my friends came to see me, and they weren't christian.
When my uncle was homeless the church took him in, but wanted him to join the faith... The homeless shelter didn't.. They were there for him and they asked nothing in return.
1 story doenst constitute conclusive evidence.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
I changed the post you quoted, lets see you come up with an excuse for this one.
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
I changed the post you quoted, lets see you come up with an excuse for this one.
Well if you had an illness that made you really miserable but didn't kill you kickly, the illness couldn't be too bad. Usually if an illness is making someone completely miserable then it is certain they are going to die quite soon. Also if you have an illness for a long amount of time, within that time period one should try to come up with a solution or cure by lifestyle changes/diet to heal oneself. Also illness's usually come from not properly taking care of yourself and not being concious of certain behaviours. Now if It is a problem at birth, Is that Gods fault or the Parents fault for not being careful enough with their own health?
Also, can health really exist without the duality of disease? Can Day exist without Night?
I still believe that whatever the Superpower was that created this earth, all these negative qualities of life are their for variety and contrast to make things more interesting as well. Think about something for a minute, could you watch a love story movie without any action in it etc for 10+hrs? Probably would not be too enjoyable. Now think about watching a love story for 10000000000000 Billion + years, that would be somewhat difficult.
So how it is justified then, that we are Gods puppets and entertainers without our own agreement by our own will to take on birth? That would seem highly unfair, but I suppose their is a great reward after death for all the earthly pain we endure.
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
I changed the post you quoted, lets see you come up with an excuse for this one.
Well if you had an illness that made you really miserable but didn't kill you kickly, the illness couldn't be too bad. Usually if an illness is making someone completely miserable then it is certain they are going to die quite soon. Also if you have an illness for a long amount of time, within that time period one should try to come up with a solution or cure by lifestyle changes/diet to heal oneself. Also illness's usually come from not properly taking care of yourself and not being concious of certain behaviours. Now if It is a problem at birth, Is that Gods fault or the Parents fault for not being careful enough with their own health?
Also, can health really exist without the duality of disease? Can Day exist without Night?
I still believe that whatever the Superpower was that created this earth, all these negative qualities of life are their for variety and contrast to make things more interesting as well. Think about something for a minute, could you watch a love story movie without any action in it etc for 10+hrs? Probably would not be too enjoyable. Now think about watching a love story for 10000000000000 Billion + years, that would be somewhat difficult.
So how it is justified then, that we are Gods puppets and entertainers without our own agreement by our own will to take on birth? That would seem highly unfair, but I suppose their is a great reward after death for all the earthly pain we endure.
I can assure you that there are plenty of diseases that don't kill you but can make life very, very miserable. Also, you do understand that many issues gained at birth have very little to do with the health of the parents, right?
There is no logical explanation for bad things happening to good people from a theist standpoint. I'm talking about diseases here, but it could be any bad thing happening to a good person.
Quoted from Neverland7
Well if you had an illness that made you really miserable but didn't kill you kickly, the illness couldn't be too bad. Usually if an illness is making someone completely miserable then it is certain they are going to die quite soon. Also if you have an illness for a long amount of time, within that time period one should try to come up with a solution or cure by lifestyle changes/diet to heal oneself. Also illness's usually come from not properly taking care of yourself and not being concious of certain behaviours. Now if It is a problem at birth, Is that Gods fault or the Parents fault for not being careful enough with their own health?
Also, can health really exist without the duality of disease? Can Day exist without Night?
I still believe that whatever the Superpower was that created this earth, all these negative qualities of life are their for variety and contrast to make things more interesting as well. Think about something for a minute, could you watch a love story movie without any action in it etc for 10+hrs? Probably would not be too enjoyable. Now think about watching a love story for 10000000000000 Billion + years, that would be somewhat difficult.
So how it is justified then, that we are Gods puppets and entertainers without our own agreement by our own will to take on birth? That would seem highly unfair, but I suppose their is a great reward after death for all the earthly pain we endure.
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You do have a good point, and I know this diverts from a certain line of discussion, but you spoke of a 1000000000000000 + billion year love story. Isn't that basically the popular concept of Heaven?
Sorry for wandering off topic.
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
Yep, God expressed his love with endless months of agonizing physical pain, the terror of dying and the unhealable emptyness left in the hearts of every person that individual knew and loved.
Makes sense to me....
I never thought about it like that. God loved them so much that God wanted them to go to heaven sooner. Puts a whole new faithful light onto the bad things that happen in life.
I changed the post you quoted, lets see you come up with an excuse for this one.
Or, you know, God 'loving' everyone enough to bring on heavenly mandated genocide. The Holocaust was just a show of how much God 'loves' his chosen people.
Argument is full of holes, friend.
But anyways, I think people need to take a chill pill and recall the reason why someone chooses a religion to begin with (and I do mean CHOOSE). It gives them comfort and closure about the unknown, and the way things work. That's all a religion is, and the theories are too many to list. Maybe it's time that the Western religions begin to practice the humility which they claim to preach.
Not commenting on the rest of your post, but this paragraph is a bit naiive. Work in healthcare for any amount of time and you will see that there many people with non-fatal chronic illnesses that make them miserable. There are many illnesses with behavioral causes, but there are many that appear quite randomly.
It gets frustrating dealing with the mindset that sick people "must have done something to bring it upon themselves."
Lifestyle modification could fix a great number of the health problems that we have, but there are plenty of random, cruel twists of fate.
Think of the infant with the random oncogene mutation, the patient with idiopathic trigeminal neuralgia, or the patient with intractable neurogenic pain after a car accident.
Another thing that annoys me about the "magical thinking of the faithful" is that suffering is the will of god. I call bullcrap on that.. Suffering is something that can be completely random, something that must often be endured, and something that compassionate people strive to alleviate in others.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Well most concepts of Heaven are a little rough and not very elaborate. Buddhists believe that there are multiple Heavens and that they are as transient as the earth. While Christianity says it is the abode of God and is a place of immortality and eternal happiness and life. I still think that a person would have to be a little cocky to claim that they know exactly what goes on in Heaven or that there is only the earth and the heavens and no other worlds beyond the earth.
Sorry, you are right, I know that Neverland7, I just forgot to say 'The popular model for CHRISTIAN heaven.' distracted in rl. ^^
If god doesn't matter to someone, then you won't matter to that someone as well. That's what I take away from that sign. I'm trying to determine which propaganda techniques this banner has employed.
Demonizing the enemy: Making individuals from the opposing nation, from a different ethnic group, or those who support the opposing viewpoint appear to be subhuman, worthless, or immoral, through suggestion or false accusations.
Appeal to fear: Appeals to fear seek to build support by instilling anxieties and panic in the general population.
Black-And-White Fallacy: Presenting only two choices, with the product or idea being propagated as the better choice. (e.g., "You are either with us, or you are with the enemy")
Card-stacking: Choosing only specific, favorable points that support a cause and ignoring the unfavorable points.
I remember having a discussion with a preacher about faith. He told me a murderer and a rapist that has faith in god and truly repents for his sins can go to heaven in the afterlife. He told me someone who sacrifices much of his own life for the benefit of others will go to hell if he lacks faith in god. That makes disbelief in god the ultimate sin. I cannot express my floccinaucinihilipilification enough for such an exigent god in this world. Heaven and hell are right here on Earth, not in the afterlife.
You all believe in a magic invisible man in the sky, who one day poofed into existence and decided to make something out of nothing(HURR DURR WUTS EQUIVELENT XCHANGE?????). THEN you have the AUDACITY to base your beliefs(more like overactive imaginations amirite?) on a book written a long time ago in a mudhut far far away.
Yeah, no. I think we're not far off when we say that you're all shithouse crazy.
Two good options that haven't been mentioned yet, but just as valid points as 'the religion is fear' arguement that has been raging for a while.
Think of it this way. What if you were able to live for 10000000000 billion + years and your favorite thing to do was gaming. Now lets say you had acsess to only one game at the time being. Such as Everquest or World of Warcraft. Now what if you were to play that game for 100000billion years, half of your lifespan and lets say they never release an expansion. Would not you be sickly bored to death of the game? Obviously you would want expansions that would include different and unique content compared to what was originally there. People can barely play an MMORPG for over a couple years without getting tired and atleast wanting expansions with different content. Now what about if you had 10000000000 billion years to play, I'm sure you would get awfully bored. Now think about if there was a SuperPower being that created this world, sure he could've created a small, healthy and tight nit family that are immortal and live in a radiant star world that had no pain. But after 10000000000000000000000+ billion years of living there, would it not get a little old? People can barley commit to playing a game that they would call their favorite for more than a couple years without wanting to try something new.
If there was no pain, death or diseases, gaming and many other things probably would have never been created or exist. If there was only bliss and perfect health, we would probably be as still as a tree and just feel good all day. Also where would the adventure be? If only good existed, there could be no antagonist to create a story or game out of. There would be no reason to do anything other then be perfectly still in feeling good.
To see physical reality as the only truth when it is in fact transient and put the utmost importance on our five external senses, well then I would say that is somewhat of a synthetic, artificial and shallow perspective.
So yeah, maybe taking on birth is a gamble but you can't say it did not create some interesting times. Instead of focusing on all the negatives that can come with life we should try and look a little more at the positives. A lot of people are living well.