Thing is why can't people just leave a feature alone instead of bitching about it constantly on forums, and saying how much it sucks when they can just as easily avoid it and not be involved in it since they don’t like it? A good example is arenas in some MMOs. I'm not into them, so I don’t play them and I don’t complain about them. Some people like them, but it has no real impact on me. I may not get to uber like them and be on the leaderboards so everyone knows I’m cool, but whatever I'm not gonna cry about it because it's just not my thing. I’ll make a name for myself elsewhere if I think I need to be popular. xD I guess I could have made those who don’t like this idea happy by saying…. “OH BTW this is an it’s own instance away from the rest of the game world so you never have to look at someone’s house” But then that would’ve completely killed it for the intended audience since most of them gain pride in showing their stuff off. This is some of the same challenges BioWare will face. Do you gimp a feature in the game to make the people who would never use that feature happy? Or do you build it like how it should be for the intended audience since they will be the ones playing it anyways? Hopefully the later.
It's the same reason people who refuse to play a game yet spend hours a day posting on that games forums telling people who actually play that game just how bad it is. They just aren't happy unless everyone thinks thier way is the only/right way.
I'm with you on the arena's. I would much rather spend my time in an open world environment but I don't spend my day telling everyone that arenas are bad and should never be in my MMO.
No, I read it. I don't think any player should own any piece of land in the game. The one thing LOTORO did right was make them zones.
Not at all.
It was a mistake as all player neighborhoods are empty. They are all ghost cities.
They should have made instanced apartments in NPC cities and instanced houses in NPC cities neighborhoods.
OP, your idea sounds nice on paper but you need to gather the players in very few zones to enhance and promote socialization. You need a hub. So once again: in NPC cities.
Then thats a reflection of the people that play LOTRO, nothing more.
People make quite extensive use of houses in EQ2 dear, and they are static zoned houses. You don't get a yard and you don't get to change the landscape.
I really really want player owned cities/housing again. It is one of the things that I enjoyed most about SWG and one of the many things lacking in new MMOs today.
I agree. Player owned and run cities really worked in SWG. I also liked the idea of players having houses in far off places of the map like their hunting lodges or hideaway. I had a three guild-house compound beside an Imperial fort in the very far north-west of Tattoine - an excellent defensive area when the bounty hunters came after my jedi.
However, for some reason the FPS kiddies have comke out heavily against player housing and cities. too much like hard work, i guess.
I completely disagree. There was never anyone but npc's in player cities whenever I came upon them and they did nothing but clutter up the landscape with urban sprawl. I resubbed three times to that game hoping that changes would make it actually tolerable because I absolutely love Star Wars and have since I was a baby. I remember seeing it in the drive in theatre when I was five (admittedly about 5 years after it was released) and it was incredibly exciting. But every single time I went away from SWG disappointed after 6 months or so.
I won't be back to SWG again.
I don't want a repeat of SWG so I have no objection to it being made completely different. And KOTOR is much much different. I hope they leave the travesty that is SWG completely behind them.
Originally posted by Moirae I completely disagree. There was never anyone but npc's in player cities whenever I came upon them and they did nothing but clutter up the landscape with urban sprawl. I resubbed three times to that game hoping that changes would make it actually tolerable because I absolutely love Star Wars and have since I was a baby. I remember seeing it in the drive in theatre when I was five (admittedly about 5 years after it was released) and it was incredibly exciting. But every single time I went away from SWG disappointed after 6 months or so.
I won't be back to SWG again.
I don't want a repeat of SWG so I have no objection to it being made completely different. And KOTOR is much much different. I hope they leave the travesty that is SWG completely behind them.
The thing is, player housing didn't make SWG a travesty. SOE removed entire classes from the game, let everyone run around as Jedi and basically ripped the soul out of the game and people left by the thousands. As the game accounts dried up, the houses should have gone with them but SOE didn't know how to remove them all without screwing everything up so they left thousands of empty houses. Before they made all the changes that ran away so many customers player cities were thriving.
If the system was designed today I would hope the devs would implement a system that packed up your home and all your belongings the day your sub expired. Maybe put a 7 day grace period in there but after that the plot of land would be freed up along with all the clutter to the database.
Originally posted by Moirae I completely disagree. There was never anyone but npc's in player cities whenever I came upon them and they did nothing but clutter up the landscape with urban sprawl. I resubbed three times to that game hoping that changes would make it actually tolerable because I absolutely love Star Wars and have since I was a baby. I remember seeing it in the drive in theatre when I was five (admittedly about 5 years after it was released) and it was incredibly exciting. But every single time I went away from SWG disappointed after 6 months or so.
I won't be back to SWG again.
I don't want a repeat of SWG so I have no objection to it being made completely different. And KOTOR is much much different. I hope they leave the travesty that is SWG completely behind them.
The thing is, player housing didn't make SWG a travesty. SOE removed entire classes from the game, let everyone run around as Jedi and basically ripped the soul out of the game and people left by the thousands. As the game accounts dried up, the houses should have gone with them but SOE didn't know how to remove them all without screwing everything up so they left thousands of empty houses. Before they made all the changes that ran away so many customers player cities were thriving.
If the system was designed today I would hope the devs would implement a system that packed up your home and all your belongings the day your sub expired. Maybe put a 7 day grace period in there but after that the plot of land would be freed up along with all the clutter to the database.
lol yeah, and since people had billions of credits in their bank accounts which is what housing maint. drew from when they left, the houses never went away. It was possible to actually have your house remain ingame for 10 RL years. They did do the house pack up thing twice, which has cut way down on the amount of houses of non playing people in the game, but the thing is there are still enough people still playing to fill the empty spots as fast as they the houses vanish. They may not have players in them all the time, but then again who stays logged in 24-7 or in their house all the time? Most likely though if you hang around outside enough you will run across the owner at some point.
Originally posted by tillamook lol yeah, and since people had billions of credits in their bank accounts which is what housing maint. drew from when they left, the houses never went away. It was possible to actually have your house remain ingame for 10 RL years. They did do the house pack up thing twice, which has cut way down on the amount of houses of non playing people in the game, but the thing is there are still enough people still playing to fill the empty spots as fast as they the houses vanish. They may not have players in them all the time, but then again who stays logged in 24-7 or in their house all the time? Most likely though if you hang around outside enough you will run across the owner at some point.
Even if your bank account hit zero credits your house would remain standing. The first time I quit playing I gave all my money to my PA and came back 8 months later to find my house still standing there. The design was so screwed up I was receiving an in-game email every 5 minutes for 7 months telling me my house payment was due and that I could not occupy it until I paid. Just think what that was doing to the database if thousands of players were getting the same message every 5 minutes month after month....
I love the original version of SWG but that was just bad coding on the devs part. You should never add something to your game that you cannot remove without fear of breaking the entire database. Hopefully everyone has learned from their multiple mistakes
Originally posted by Moirae I completely disagree. There was never anyone but npc's in player cities whenever I came upon them and they did nothing but clutter up the landscape with urban sprawl. I resubbed three times to that game hoping that changes would make it actually tolerable because I absolutely love Star Wars and have since I was a baby. I remember seeing it in the drive in theatre when I was five (admittedly about 5 years after it was released) and it was incredibly exciting. But every single time I went away from SWG disappointed after 6 months or so.
I won't be back to SWG again.
I don't want a repeat of SWG so I have no objection to it being made completely different. And KOTOR is much much different. I hope they leave the travesty that is SWG completely behind them.
The thing is, player housing didn't make SWG a travesty. SOE removed entire classes from the game, let everyone run around as Jedi and basically ripped the soul out of the game and people left by the thousands. As the game accounts dried up, the houses should have gone with them but SOE didn't know how to remove them all without screwing everything up so they left thousands of empty houses. Before they made all the changes that ran away so many customers player cities were thriving.
If the system was designed today I would hope the devs would implement a system that packed up your home and all your belongings the day your sub expired. Maybe put a 7 day grace period in there but after that the plot of land would be freed up along with all the clutter to the database.
I never said it did dear. Everything did. Which is why I don't object to the SW: TOR being made completely different.
Originally posted by Moirae I completely disagree. There was never anyone but npc's in player cities whenever I came upon them and they did nothing but clutter up the landscape with urban sprawl. I resubbed three times to that game hoping that changes would make it actually tolerable because I absolutely love Star Wars and have since I was a baby. I remember seeing it in the drive in theatre when I was five (admittedly about 5 years after it was released) and it was incredibly exciting. But every single time I went away from SWG disappointed after 6 months or so.
I won't be back to SWG again.
I don't want a repeat of SWG so I have no objection to it being made completely different. And KOTOR is much much different. I hope they leave the travesty that is SWG completely behind them.
The thing is, player housing didn't make SWG a travesty. SOE removed entire classes from the game, let everyone run around as Jedi and basically ripped the soul out of the game and people left by the thousands. As the game accounts dried up, the houses should have gone with them but SOE didn't know how to remove them all without screwing everything up so they left thousands of empty houses. Before they made all the changes that ran away so many customers player cities were thriving.
If the system was designed today I would hope the devs would implement a system that packed up your home and all your belongings the day your sub expired. Maybe put a 7 day grace period in there but after that the plot of land would be freed up along with all the clutter to the database.
lol yeah, and since people had billions of credits in their bank accounts which is what housing maint. drew from when they left, the houses never went away. It was possible to actually have your house remain ingame for 10 RL years. They did do the house pack up thing twice, which has cut way down on the amount of houses of non playing people in the game, but the thing is there are still enough people still playing to fill the empty spots as fast as they the houses vanish. They may not have players in them all the time, but then again who stays logged in 24-7 or in their house all the time? Most likely though if you hang around outside enough you will run across the owner at some point.
Yeah, that was a big problem. The houses never went away. They just sat there. It was annoying. If a player doesn't log in for 6 months, the house should get deleted, just like if they cancel their account.
But no, the devs actually thought it was a good idea until they had so many complaints that they litterally had no choice but to delete some.
lol yeah, and since people had billions of credits in their bank accounts which is what housing maint. drew from when they left, the houses never went away. It was possible to actually have your house remain ingame for 10 RL years. They did do the house pack up thing twice, which has cut way down on the amount of houses of non playing people in the game, but the thing is there are still enough people still playing to fill the empty spots as fast as they the houses vanish. They may not have players in them all the time, but then again who stays logged in 24-7 or in their house all the time? Most likely though if you hang around outside enough you will run across the owner at some point.
Yeah, that was a big problem. The houses never went away. They just sat there. It was annoying. If a player doesn't log in for 6 months, the house should get deleted, just like if they cancel their account.
But no, the devs actually thought it was a good idea until they had so many complaints that they litterally had no choice but to delete some.
It might have been a proplem for you but it was not for me.
On the Bria server, many cities were busy, populous places, and were maintained by guilds whose people used to man their cantinas and forts. Sidious in Dantoine was one example and Bastion in Naboo was another.
I personally didn't mind the houses dotted around the landscape. They make the habitable planets seem populated - and it was fun finding houses in the far reaches of Imperial civilisation. Even the abandoned ones played their part, making certain areas seem ghostly and mysterious.
And of course, please don't give the impression that urban sprawl entirely covered whole planets. That's totally wrong. And some planets, like Yavin and Dathomir, didn't allow any building at all.
Sounds like SWG player cities all over again.. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
i really don't see how clicking on a stone for a city to spawn is the same as housing in SWG.
For starters cities in SWG required cooperation. You needed an architect to build the city hall - in turn he needed resources gathered by either himself or someone else, as well as tools and crafting stations to build them (again crafted by someone).
Once built, in order for the city to prosper someone had to level the politician branch, and houses had to be constructed, instead of clicking on the ground as the OP proposes.
As a Hero fighting in the war between the Old Republic and the Sith Empire, I will not have time to worry about paying taxes. Sorry, but your idea, as well thought out as it may be, is more akin to "A day in the life of Star Wars", which is not the direction of SW:TOR.
i don't think anyone said here that owning a house is compulsory.
i am sure that, should this feature be implemented, your grand quest to epic heroism will not be thwarted by paying taxes should you chose not to own a house.
As a Hero fighting in the war between the Old Republic and the Sith Empire, I will not have time to worry about paying taxes. Sorry, but your idea, as well thought out as it may be, is more akin to "A day in the life of Star Wars", which is not the direction of SW:TOR.
i don't think anyone said here that owning a house is compulsory.
i am sure that, should this feature be implemented, your grand quest to epic heroism will not be thwarted by paying taxes should you chose not to own a house.
I would like to add, hades the last thing i want is wow clone id like to have some complexity to the game and a lot more depth than wow
Playing: FFXIV Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Well you know there should be planets where it would make sense for them to be covered with cities.
There should be other planets where it would make no sense at all.
Star Wars imho would be a great IP to have "outpost" in pvp areas that can be destroyed... captured etc (ya you know that concept aoc had but didn't deliver at least at launch)... I mean Hoth had such an outpost as an example. Different time line but Star Wars has a lot of things they could do.
As to player cities in SWG.. that was nothing. If you played Ultima Online and saw the tent cities.. where entire parts of continents were closed off... now that was something.
lol yeah, and since people had billions of credits in their bank accounts which is what housing maint. drew from when they left, the houses never went away. It was possible to actually have your house remain ingame for 10 RL years. They did do the house pack up thing twice, which has cut way down on the amount of houses of non playing people in the game, but the thing is there are still enough people still playing to fill the empty spots as fast as they the houses vanish. They may not have players in them all the time, but then again who stays logged in 24-7 or in their house all the time? Most likely though if you hang around outside enough you will run across the owner at some point.
Yeah, that was a big problem. The houses never went away. They just sat there. It was annoying. If a player doesn't log in for 6 months, the house should get deleted, just like if they cancel their account.
But no, the devs actually thought it was a good idea until they had so many complaints that they litterally had no choice but to delete some.
It might have been a proplem for you but it was not for me.
On the Bria server, many cities were busy, populous places, and were maintained by guilds whose people used to man their cantinas and forts. Sidious in Dantoine was one example and Bastion in Naboo was another.
I personally didn't mind the houses dotted around the landscape. They make the habitable planets seem populated - and it was fun finding houses in the far reaches of Imperial civilisation. Even the abandoned ones played their part, making certain areas seem ghostly and mysterious.
And of course, please don't give the impression that urban sprawl entirely covered whole planets. That's totally wrong. And some planets, like Yavin and Dathomir, didn't allow any building at all.
I agree, it added to the value of exploration for me. First week in SWG I got lost in BFE on Tat. I found all kinds of houses with interesting things in them so I knew at least there were people in the area at some point. I remember thinking how cool it was that you could have a house in a game and wondered how you get one.
The one thing I did hate was those houses that either formed a wall in a noncity area (a city that had died long ago) so when you were lagging across the landscape you would find yourself trapped in a lair of critters right next to the house. Or abandoned houses that were in a spot I wanted to place mine with a sign that read "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH F SOE!!" Obvously this person wasn't playing anymore. Some were just sad reminders of past friends who left long ago when you came across one with a name you remembered.
I imagine you your can't make everyone happy with a houseing system, I hope to god they at least try to come close. People who don't like it, don't have to play, plain and simple. But if they never try it they will never know if they truly hate it or not.
Comments
It's the same reason people who refuse to play a game yet spend hours a day posting on that games forums telling people who actually play that game just how bad it is. They just aren't happy unless everyone thinks thier way is the only/right way.
I'm with you on the arena's. I would much rather spend my time in an open world environment but I don't spend my day telling everyone that arenas are bad and should never be in my MMO.
Not at all.
It was a mistake as all player neighborhoods are empty. They are all ghost cities.
They should have made instanced apartments in NPC cities and instanced houses in NPC cities neighborhoods.
OP, your idea sounds nice on paper but you need to gather the players in very few zones to enhance and promote socialization. You need a hub. So once again: in NPC cities.
Then thats a reflection of the people that play LOTRO, nothing more.
People make quite extensive use of houses in EQ2 dear, and they are static zoned houses. You don't get a yard and you don't get to change the landscape.
I agree. Player owned and run cities really worked in SWG. I also liked the idea of players having houses in far off places of the map like their hunting lodges or hideaway. I had a three guild-house compound beside an Imperial fort in the very far north-west of Tattoine - an excellent defensive area when the bounty hunters came after my jedi.
However, for some reason the FPS kiddies have comke out heavily against player housing and cities. too much like hard work, i guess.
I completely disagree. There was never anyone but npc's in player cities whenever I came upon them and they did nothing but clutter up the landscape with urban sprawl. I resubbed three times to that game hoping that changes would make it actually tolerable because I absolutely love Star Wars and have since I was a baby. I remember seeing it in the drive in theatre when I was five (admittedly about 5 years after it was released) and it was incredibly exciting. But every single time I went away from SWG disappointed after 6 months or so.
I won't be back to SWG again.
I don't want a repeat of SWG so I have no objection to it being made completely different. And KOTOR is much much different. I hope they leave the travesty that is SWG completely behind them.
The thing is, player housing didn't make SWG a travesty. SOE removed entire classes from the game, let everyone run around as Jedi and basically ripped the soul out of the game and people left by the thousands. As the game accounts dried up, the houses should have gone with them but SOE didn't know how to remove them all without screwing everything up so they left thousands of empty houses. Before they made all the changes that ran away so many customers player cities were thriving.
If the system was designed today I would hope the devs would implement a system that packed up your home and all your belongings the day your sub expired. Maybe put a 7 day grace period in there but after that the plot of land would be freed up along with all the clutter to the database.
The thing is, player housing didn't make SWG a travesty. SOE removed entire classes from the game, let everyone run around as Jedi and basically ripped the soul out of the game and people left by the thousands. As the game accounts dried up, the houses should have gone with them but SOE didn't know how to remove them all without screwing everything up so they left thousands of empty houses. Before they made all the changes that ran away so many customers player cities were thriving.
If the system was designed today I would hope the devs would implement a system that packed up your home and all your belongings the day your sub expired. Maybe put a 7 day grace period in there but after that the plot of land would be freed up along with all the clutter to the database.
lol yeah, and since people had billions of credits in their bank accounts which is what housing maint. drew from when they left, the houses never went away. It was possible to actually have your house remain ingame for 10 RL years. They did do the house pack up thing twice, which has cut way down on the amount of houses of non playing people in the game, but the thing is there are still enough people still playing to fill the empty spots as fast as they the houses vanish. They may not have players in them all the time, but then again who stays logged in 24-7 or in their house all the time? Most likely though if you hang around outside enough you will run across the owner at some point.
Even if your bank account hit zero credits your house would remain standing. The first time I quit playing I gave all my money to my PA and came back 8 months later to find my house still standing there. The design was so screwed up I was receiving an in-game email every 5 minutes for 7 months telling me my house payment was due and that I could not occupy it until I paid. Just think what that was doing to the database if thousands of players were getting the same message every 5 minutes month after month....
I love the original version of SWG but that was just bad coding on the devs part. You should never add something to your game that you cannot remove without fear of breaking the entire database. Hopefully everyone has learned from their multiple mistakes
The thing is, player housing didn't make SWG a travesty. SOE removed entire classes from the game, let everyone run around as Jedi and basically ripped the soul out of the game and people left by the thousands. As the game accounts dried up, the houses should have gone with them but SOE didn't know how to remove them all without screwing everything up so they left thousands of empty houses. Before they made all the changes that ran away so many customers player cities were thriving.
If the system was designed today I would hope the devs would implement a system that packed up your home and all your belongings the day your sub expired. Maybe put a 7 day grace period in there but after that the plot of land would be freed up along with all the clutter to the database.
I never said it did dear. Everything did. Which is why I don't object to the SW: TOR being made completely different.
Understand now?
The thing is, player housing didn't make SWG a travesty. SOE removed entire classes from the game, let everyone run around as Jedi and basically ripped the soul out of the game and people left by the thousands. As the game accounts dried up, the houses should have gone with them but SOE didn't know how to remove them all without screwing everything up so they left thousands of empty houses. Before they made all the changes that ran away so many customers player cities were thriving.
If the system was designed today I would hope the devs would implement a system that packed up your home and all your belongings the day your sub expired. Maybe put a 7 day grace period in there but after that the plot of land would be freed up along with all the clutter to the database.
lol yeah, and since people had billions of credits in their bank accounts which is what housing maint. drew from when they left, the houses never went away. It was possible to actually have your house remain ingame for 10 RL years. They did do the house pack up thing twice, which has cut way down on the amount of houses of non playing people in the game, but the thing is there are still enough people still playing to fill the empty spots as fast as they the houses vanish. They may not have players in them all the time, but then again who stays logged in 24-7 or in their house all the time? Most likely though if you hang around outside enough you will run across the owner at some point.
Yeah, that was a big problem. The houses never went away. They just sat there. It was annoying. If a player doesn't log in for 6 months, the house should get deleted, just like if they cancel their account.
But no, the devs actually thought it was a good idea until they had so many complaints that they litterally had no choice but to delete some.
Yeah, that was a big problem. The houses never went away. They just sat there. It was annoying. If a player doesn't log in for 6 months, the house should get deleted, just like if they cancel their account.
But no, the devs actually thought it was a good idea until they had so many complaints that they litterally had no choice but to delete some.
It might have been a proplem for you but it was not for me.
On the Bria server, many cities were busy, populous places, and were maintained by guilds whose people used to man their cantinas and forts. Sidious in Dantoine was one example and Bastion in Naboo was another.
I personally didn't mind the houses dotted around the landscape. They make the habitable planets seem populated - and it was fun finding houses in the far reaches of Imperial civilisation. Even the abandoned ones played their part, making certain areas seem ghostly and mysterious.
And of course, please don't give the impression that urban sprawl entirely covered whole planets. That's totally wrong. And some planets, like Yavin and Dathomir, didn't allow any building at all.
building a city (or outpost, base, etc) by clicking a button and it spawns right in front you?
where's the cooperation? where's the challenge?
next thing we know we will be able to travel anywhere from anywhere by the click of a button... oh wait...!
i really don't see how clicking on a stone for a city to spawn is the same as housing in SWG.
For starters cities in SWG required cooperation. You needed an architect to build the city hall - in turn he needed resources gathered by either himself or someone else, as well as tools and crafting stations to build them (again crafted by someone).
Once built, in order for the city to prosper someone had to level the politician branch, and houses had to be constructed, instead of clicking on the ground as the OP proposes.
i don't think anyone said here that owning a house is compulsory.
i am sure that, should this feature be implemented, your grand quest to epic heroism will not be thwarted by paying taxes should you chose not to own a house.
i don't think anyone said here that owning a house is compulsory.
i am sure that, should this feature be implemented, your grand quest to epic heroism will not be thwarted by paying taxes should you chose not to own a house.
I would like to add, hades the last thing i want is wow clone id like to have some complexity to the game and a lot more depth than wow
Playing: FFXIV
Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic
Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Interesting Fact - I own 27 Tarantula's
Well you know there should be planets where it would make sense for them to be covered with cities.
There should be other planets where it would make no sense at all.
Star Wars imho would be a great IP to have "outpost" in pvp areas that can be destroyed... captured etc (ya you know that concept aoc had but didn't deliver at least at launch)... I mean Hoth had such an outpost as an example. Different time line but Star Wars has a lot of things they could do.
As to player cities in SWG.. that was nothing. If you played Ultima Online and saw the tent cities.. where entire parts of continents were closed off... now that was something.
Yeah, that was a big problem. The houses never went away. They just sat there. It was annoying. If a player doesn't log in for 6 months, the house should get deleted, just like if they cancel their account.
But no, the devs actually thought it was a good idea until they had so many complaints that they litterally had no choice but to delete some.
It might have been a proplem for you but it was not for me.
On the Bria server, many cities were busy, populous places, and were maintained by guilds whose people used to man their cantinas and forts. Sidious in Dantoine was one example and Bastion in Naboo was another.
I personally didn't mind the houses dotted around the landscape. They make the habitable planets seem populated - and it was fun finding houses in the far reaches of Imperial civilisation. Even the abandoned ones played their part, making certain areas seem ghostly and mysterious.
And of course, please don't give the impression that urban sprawl entirely covered whole planets. That's totally wrong. And some planets, like Yavin and Dathomir, didn't allow any building at all.
I agree, it added to the value of exploration for me. First week in SWG I got lost in BFE on Tat. I found all kinds of houses with interesting things in them so I knew at least there were people in the area at some point. I remember thinking how cool it was that you could have a house in a game and wondered how you get one.
The one thing I did hate was those houses that either formed a wall in a noncity area (a city that had died long ago) so when you were lagging across the landscape you would find yourself trapped in a lair of critters right next to the house. Or abandoned houses that were in a spot I wanted to place mine with a sign that read "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH F SOE!!" Obvously this person wasn't playing anymore. Some were just sad reminders of past friends who left long ago when you came across one with a name you remembered.
I imagine you your can't make everyone happy with a houseing system, I hope to god they at least try to come close. People who don't like it, don't have to play, plain and simple. But if they never try it they will never know if they truly hate it or not.