largest complaint about ae

damian7 · May 2009

quite honestly, the largest complaint, when you boil it down, about ae -- a very small percentage of the overall subs -- is QQing because other people are playing the game in a different fashion than this small percentage likes.

lag - if the game was popular without ae, you'd have had all this lag before.

can't find someone to team with - i again state, i have had no problem finding teams, even pugs, for non-ae content since ae has released. if you can't find people to team with -- the problem IS with you (in one fashion or another).

zomgwtfbq they're breaking rules -- 1 they're breaking intentionall vague "rules"

2 it is COMPLETELY IDIOTIC AND IRRESPONSIBLE to not expect 150,000 players to NOT push anything in any MMO to its limits. did 150k players beta it? did the handful of friends, family, and players warn that this WOULD be farmed to hell. according to posi, yes, they were not taken by surprise that this was used for farming.

3 it is COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE & IGNORANT to not expect a player base of tens of thousands (around 120-150k) to NOT push a game to its limits and to not push all aspects of said game to its limits. this has been done in every single MMO, with every aspect of said MMOs, since well, the first online games came out. period. to WILLFULLY IGNORE this blatantly obvious fact, as a lead dev - is the epitomy of willful ignorance, willful stupidity, is willful irresponsibility. to blame or threaten, IN ANY FASHION, your playerbase, without whom you have no game (the handful of ass kissing sycophantic forumgoers will NOT sustain this game --- look at the booster pack and ingame adverts.. they're in need of a lot of money), is irresponsible beyond words, ESPECIALLY when ALL blame rests squarely at the feet of the gaming company.

if players CAN do something in an MMO, they WILL do it, and they WILL do it a lot. this is an indisputable fact. TO dispute it is a show of ignorance or stupidity or both. to expect the 97%+ of a playerbase, who do NOT read forums and can't be bothered to read patch notes -- to expect them to have a gentleman's handshake to, and i quote, "not abuse the system" and that IS as specific as it gets -- is utter stupidity. that is being very nice and generous with the wording.

you can "expect" anything you want out of a playerbase; BUT, to expect the playerbase to behave differently this FIFTH year, than they have all the other years??? that is "how do you remember to breathe" level of stupidity.

edit: my biggest complaint(s) about ae, other than willfully ignorant dev teams?

multiple instances of the same mission, causing you to reform (most of the time) and hope it doesn't happen again.

AND

the idiot game just locking up and shutting down because of... memory leaks? or just bad coding in general.

edit 2:

Castle Says: Farming is doing something repetitively just for the sake of the reward (regardless of what that reward is.) If you are doing Freak-o-lympics for the 4th time because you LIKE that arc, that isn't farming.

by that dev's definition - i've never farmed.

hehenep · May 2009

lag - if the game was popular without ae, you'd have had all this lag before.

We have had all this lag before, at invasions, the various raids, bigger events, and 2XP weekends are much worse really. The problem with the AE is that it bunches up the playerbase into (largely) just a couple zones far more than usual.

Castle Says: Farming is doing something repetitively just for the sake of the reward (regardless of what that reward is.) If you are doing Freak-o-lympics for the 4th time because you LIKE that arc, that isn't farming.

You do realize that farming isn't what this is all about right? It's about the people who exploited the AE system for absurd leveling.

damian7 · May 2009

Originally posted by hehenep

lag - if the game was popular without ae, you'd have had all this lag before.

We have had all this lag before, at invasions, the various raids, bigger events, and 2XP weekends are much worse really. The problem with the AE is that it bunches up the playerbase into (largely) just a couple zones far more than usual.

Castle Says: Farming is doing something repetitively just for the sake of the reward (regardless of what that reward is.) If you are doing Freak-o-lympics for the 4th time because you LIKE that arc, that isn't farming.

You do realize that farming isn't what this is all about right? It's about the people who exploited the AE system for absurd leveling.

i'ved stated this numerous times, in numerous fashion, over the past few days, on this very forum...

it's about the people who explited the ae system for absurd leveling?

ok.

have you played coh for any amount of time? if not, and you're a noob - you really don't have the experience with this game to voice your "concern".

if you've played for any amount of time... how EXACTLY is THIS exploitation diferent than.

many many months of fire tanks pl'ing people from 1-50 in a couple of days? game mechanics were changed. no one was threatened, banned, or deleveled -- none of the THOUSANDS

super teams being formed, with the EXPLICIT goal of game mechanic exploitation by leveling EVERYONE on the super team from 1-50 on a double xp weekend? or, by leveling people to 50, with CASUAL play, in less than a month's time? these teams, whose stated purpose is to abuse/exploit ingame mechanics are STILL ignored wholely by staff. they don't care that hundreds of people on super teams are exploiting ingame mechanics on a daily basis to level super fast.

fast katie runs, exploiting tf recipe drops for how many months? where you could easily run a dozen katies a day if you wanted? game mechanics were changed, no one was threatened, banned, or any recipes removed.

i use pl/farm/exploit interchangeably, because there's always some wordsmith that's going to try to play some lame semantics game so it (the wordsmith) can feel "i win!!!!".

now, we go back to ... every MMO that's been released... the playerbase has ALWAYS played every feature to it's fullest extent... if you want to call that abuse, exploitation, or whatever... it is ALWAYS done in EVERY game.

it has ALWAYS been done in coh (fire tanks, winter lords, super teams that are even NOW still being formed)... to believe that THIS ONE TIME... a playerbase of over 100,000 players, none of whom REALLY "play the game to enjoy the journey to level 50), otherwise people wouldn't be QQing about the lag in all the AE zones.... it is willfully negligent, willfully ignorant, and abjectly moronic to think that this one time, out of 5 years of players abusing/exploiting EVERYTHING in in coh (much less everything in every mmo in existence), that players would NOT utilize THIS system to its fullest potential.

the only thing naysayers can fall back on is "oh they broke the rules". welp, i've given examples, in which tens of thousands of people exploited the game and broke those same rules (and a few other rules as well), and no one at the gaming company has cared or threatened the playerbase. they either change the game mechanics to "fix" supposedly broken features, or they completely ignore the people doing the exploiting.

so, i have LITERAL YEARS of examples of those rules that are being quoted... those selfsame rules are being quoted as to why THIS ae "exploitation" is cheating.

i have years of examples to show that the devs don't care about those rules one whit or iota. to act like they care NOW, is hypocrisy. to accept this hypocrisy is willing ignorance on the part of paying customers.

i have given MULTIPLE ingame examples supporting everything i say, which contradicts all this "cheating" talk. am i not using small enough words in the examples? are the people on the holier-than-thou and -down-with-cheaters kicks... are they total noobs to the game/genre? i do not understand where the disconnect is.

you can have ANY opinion you want. i am giving LITERALLY, tens of thousands of examples in the exploits i am mentioning.

if ae has more than tens of thousands of examples of this exploit, then that supports something TOTALLY different -- that the VAST MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERBASE enjoys --- ENJOYS -- playing ae in this fashion, and they do NOT enjoy leveling multiple characters to 50 ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD that the people screaming 'cheat' and 'exploit' are in the tiny minority.

i'm not giving my opinion. i'm giving factual information about how much these "rules" have not been enforced, and indeed CONTINUE to be ignored, by the gaming staff... to this very day.

so, quoting a rule that has been unilaterally ignored BY THE PEOPLE RUNNING COH for 5 years... how does that make you in the right?

wizitdry · May 2009

Pre AE farming was already a problem (or for me the associated spam), but the exception was that it was confined one zone on blue side and one zone on red side (PI & Grandville respectively); the spam that is associated with farmers looking for paying lowbies & lowbies looking for farms was confined to these areas as such.

If I wanted to avoid this high amount of spam it was quite easy, I just stayed away from PI or Grandville; for me this was an acceptable trade-off and is the reason most of my characters where between the lvls 1-40.

So here comes AE, farm spam now moves to just about every zone; for me this is not acceptable. Say what you like, no amount of anything will sway me to agree that this is ok. Quite simply I will not pay for a game that is full of spam.

If farming is the norm as you have been suggesting then I have obiviously been playing a very different game than you have for the past 2 years, most players partake in the game as it was designed. So while it might be a small percentage that are vocal about their distaste for farming it is an equally small percentage that believe that farming is what it is about.

damian7 · May 2009

Originally posted by wizitdry

Pre AE farming was already a problem (or for me the associated spam), but the exception was that it was confined one zone on blue side and one zone on red side (PI & Grandville respectively); the spam that is associated with farmers looking for paying lowbies & lowbies looking for farms was confined to these areas as such.
If I wanted to avoid this high amount of spam it was quite easy, I just stayed away from PI or Grandville; for me this was an acceptable trade-off and is the reason most of my characters where between the lvls 1-40.
So here comes AE, farm spam now moves to just about every zone; for me this is not acceptable. Say what you like, no amount of anything will sway me to agree that this is ok. Quite simply I will not pay for a game that is full of spam.
If farming is the norm as you have been suggesting then I have obiviously been playing a very different game than you have for the past 2 years, most players partake in the game as it was designed. So while it might be a small percentage that are vocal about their distaste for farming it is an equally small percentage that believe that farming is what it is about.

but...but... it's not about farming... it's about abusing/exploiting the ae system.

and as for abusing AND farming in the ae system... not sure where you get small percentage, if every where YOU go, people are spamming for the ae farms.

wizitdry · May 2009

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by wizitdry

Pre AE farming was already a problem (or for me the associated spam), but the exception was that it was confined one zone on blue side and one zone on red side (PI & Grandville respectively); the spam that is associated with farmers looking for paying lowbies & lowbies looking for farms was confined to these areas as such.
If I wanted to avoid this high amount of spam it was quite easy, I just stayed away from PI or Grandville; for me this was an acceptable trade-off and is the reason most of my characters where between the lvls 1-40.
So here comes AE, farm spam now moves to just about every zone; for me this is not acceptable. Say what you like, no amount of anything will sway me to agree that this is ok. Quite simply I will not pay for a game that is full of spam.
If farming is the norm as you have been suggesting then I have obiviously been playing a very different game than you have for the past 2 years, most players partake in the game as it was designed. So while it might be a small percentage that are vocal about their distaste for farming it is an equally small percentage that believe that farming is what it is about.

but...but... it's not about farming... it's about abusing/exploiting the ae system.

and as for abusing AND farming in the ae system... not sure where you get small percentage, if every where YOU go, people are spamming for the ae farms.

Abusing/exploiting the AE system is what the farmers are doing, I believe the devs have even gone as far as saying that using the AE system for farms will be in direct violation of tos.

I'm not exactly sure how you equate me seeing farm spam in every zone as a large percentage of the player base creating said spam, it's usually a hand ful of people per zone.

FreddyNoNose · May 2009

Originally posted by damian7

quite honestly, the largest complaint, when you boil it down, about ae -- a very small percentage of the overall subs -- is QQing because other people are playing the game in a different fashion than this small percentage likes.

lag - if the game was popular without ae, you'd have had all this lag before.
can't find someone to team with - i again state, i have had no problem finding teams, even pugs, for non-ae content since ae has released. if you can't find people to team with -- the problem IS with you (in one fashion or another).
zomgwtfbq they're breaking rules -- 1 they're breaking intentionall vague "rules"
2 it is COMPLETELY IDIOTIC AND IRRESPONSIBLE to not expect 150,000 players to NOT push anything in any MMO to its limits. did 150k players beta it? did the handful of friends, family, and players warn that this WOULD be farmed to hell. according to posi, yes, they were not taken by surprise that this was used for farming.
3 it is COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE & IGNORANT to not expect a player base of tens of thousands (around 120-150k) to NOT push a game to its limits and to not push all aspects of said game to its limits. this has been done in every single MMO, with every aspect of said MMOs, since well, the first online games came out. period. to WILLFULLY IGNORE this blatantly obvious fact, as a lead dev - is the epitomy of willful ignorance, willful stupidity, is willful irresponsibility. to blame or threaten, IN ANY FASHION, your playerbase, without whom you have no game (the handful of ass kissing sycophantic forumgoers will NOT sustain this game --- look at the booster pack and ingame adverts.. they're in need of a lot of money), is irresponsible beyond words, ESPECIALLY when ALL blame rests squarely at the feet of the gaming company.

if players CAN do something in an MMO, they WILL do it, and they WILL do it a lot. this is an indisputable fact. TO dispute it is a show of ignorance or stupidity or both. to expect the 97%+ of a playerbase, who do NOT read forums and can't be bothered to read patch notes -- to expect them to have a gentleman's handshake to, and i quote, "not abuse the system" and that IS as specific as it gets -- is utter stupidity. that is being very nice and generous with the wording.

you can "expect" anything you want out of a playerbase; BUT, to expect the playerbase to behave differently this FIFTH year, than they have all the other years??? that is "how do you remember to breathe" level of stupidity.

edit: my biggest complaint(s) about ae, other than willfully ignorant dev teams?
multiple instances of the same mission, causing you to reform (most of the time) and hope it doesn't happen again.
AND
the idiot game just locking up and shutting down because of... memory leaks? or just bad coding in general.

edit 2:

Castle Says: Farming is doing something repetitively just for the sake of the reward (regardless of what that reward is.) If you are doing Freak-o-lympics for the 4th time because you LIKE that arc, that isn't farming.

by that dev's definition - i've never farmed.

I don't alway agree with you, but what the devs allowed with the MA is really obviously something open to exploitation. It's not like they didn't have any ideas this might happen. For years on game forums, people have asked for tools to make game content and almost like clockwork, someone will mention the possiblities that players will exploit it somehow to extreme advantage. So MA comes along and people push it for everything it has and look at the end results. Who could have predicted it? Anyone with a brain would have.

Now what they do with it is bound to cause problems. First, they should shutdown the MA until it is fixed. If they aren't going to fix it, leave it as it is and let your players milk it until they are bored with it. They could really end up pissing off the player base if they handle it wrong. I have already heard that the market has changed significantly and people who used to make money from it are getting nothing. BTW, I don't know if/what is selling on the market right now so I can't provide specifics. I would guess the tickets are bringing cheap materials or plans to the market or eliminating them somehow.

The MA is cool. I made a few missions and ran one of my friends missions. Other than that, I am just playing some alts the good old running mission way. COH is my favorite MMO, but I have a feeling it's days are now numbered......

grimmstone · May 2009

Originally posted by FreddyNoNose

Originally posted by damian7

quite honestly, the largest complaint, when you boil it down, about ae -- a very small percentage of the overall subs -- is QQing because other people are playing the game in a different fashion than this small percentage likes.

lag - if the game was popular without ae, you'd have had all this lag before.
can't find someone to team with - i again state, i have had no problem finding teams, even pugs, for non-ae content since ae has released. if you can't find people to team with -- the problem IS with you (in one fashion or another).
zomgwtfbq they're breaking rules -- 1 they're breaking intentionall vague "rules"
2 it is COMPLETELY IDIOTIC AND IRRESPONSIBLE to not expect 150,000 players to NOT push anything in any MMO to its limits. did 150k players beta it? did the handful of friends, family, and players warn that this WOULD be farmed to hell. according to posi, yes, they were not taken by surprise that this was used for farming.
3 it is COMPLETELY IRRESPONSIBLE & IGNORANT to not expect a player base of tens of thousands (around 120-150k) to NOT push a game to its limits and to not push all aspects of said game to its limits. this has been done in every single MMO, with every aspect of said MMOs, since well, the first online games came out. period. to WILLFULLY IGNORE this blatantly obvious fact, as a lead dev - is the epitomy of willful ignorance, willful stupidity, is willful irresponsibility. to blame or threaten, IN ANY FASHION, your playerbase, without whom you have no game (the handful of ass kissing sycophantic forumgoers will NOT sustain this game --- look at the booster pack and ingame adverts.. they're in need of a lot of money), is irresponsible beyond words, ESPECIALLY when ALL blame rests squarely at the feet of the gaming company.

if players CAN do something in an MMO, they WILL do it, and they WILL do it a lot. this is an indisputable fact. TO dispute it is a show of ignorance or stupidity or both. to expect the 97%+ of a playerbase, who do NOT read forums and can't be bothered to read patch notes -- to expect them to have a gentleman's handshake to, and i quote, "not abuse the system" and that IS as specific as it gets -- is utter stupidity. that is being very nice and generous with the wording.

you can "expect" anything you want out of a playerbase; BUT, to expect the playerbase to behave differently this FIFTH year, than they have all the other years??? that is "how do you remember to breathe" level of stupidity.

edit: my biggest complaint(s) about ae, other than willfully ignorant dev teams?
multiple instances of the same mission, causing you to reform (most of the time) and hope it doesn't happen again.
AND
the idiot game just locking up and shutting down because of... memory leaks? or just bad coding in general.

edit 2:

Castle Says: Farming is doing something repetitively just for the sake of the reward (regardless of what that reward is.) If you are doing Freak-o-lympics for the 4th time because you LIKE that arc, that isn't farming.

by that dev's definition - i've never farmed.

I don't alway agree with you, but what the devs allowed with the MA is really obviously something open to exploitation. It's not like they didn't have any ideas this might happen. For years on game forums, people have asked for tools to make game content and almost like clockwork, someone will mention the possiblities that players will exploit it somehow to extreme advantage. So MA comes along and people push it for everything it has and look at the end results. Who could have predicted it? Anyone with a brain would have.

Now what they do with it is bound to cause problems. First, they should shutdown the MA until it is fixed. If they aren't going to fix it, leave it as it is and let your players milk it until they are bored with it. They could really end up pissing off the player base if they handle it wrong. I have already heard that the market has changed significantly and people who used to make money from it are getting nothing. BTW, I don't know if/what is selling on the market right now so I can't provide specifics. I would guess the tickets are bringing cheap materials or plans to the market or eliminating them somehow.

The MA is cool. I made a few missions and ran one of my friends missions. Other than that, I am just playing some alts the good old running mission way. COH is my favorite MMO, but I have a feeling it's days are now numbered......

COH's days may be numbered but I don't think that CO is the one that will beat it. So far CO looks and feels too much like a Coh-clone. DCUO however is the one that should knock COH out of the park but last I read that is slated for 2010

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