You are wrong Salvaroti, it is well known around the world.
South America.
Central America.
North America.
If you live in South or Central America you will learn in primary school the existence of 3 Americas, is not that way in North America?
...
There are two Americas . Central America is a region of North America.
Yes, Central America is today a region of North America, but it has its own culture.
I am sorry Salvatoris there are three Americas, South, Central and North, in NA you may learn only about 2 americas, but in South, Central America and some European locations, there are and there will always be 3 Americas.
"A América Central (também Centroamérica em espanhol) é a região do mundo limitada ao norte pela Península de Iucatã, no México e ao sul pela Colômbia, limitando a Oeste com o Oceano Pacífico e a Leste com o mar das Caraíbas (Oceano Atlântico). Na América do Norte, considera-se geralmente a América como um único continente, no entanto, esta região está assente numa placa tectónica individual - a Placa Caribeana - e pode portanto considerar-se um continente. Alguns geógrafos incluem o México inteiro nessa região. Existem montanhas ao longo de toda a região, sendo que as situadas ao sul são uma continuação dos Andes; a mais alta é a do monte Tajumulco na Guatemala com 4.220m de altitude. "
You are wrong Salvaroti, it is well known around the world.
South America.
Central America.
North America.
If you live in South or Central America you will learn in primary school the existence of 3 Americas, is not that way in North America?
...
There are two Americas . Central America is a region of North America.
Yes, Central America is today a region of North America, but it has its own culture.
I am sorry Salvatoris there are three Americas, South, Central and North, in NA you may learn only about 2 americas, but in South, Central America and some European locations, there are and there will always be 3 Americas.
"A América Central (também Centroamérica em espanhol) é a região do mundo limitada ao norte pela Península de Iucatã, no México e ao sul pela Colômbia, limitando a Oeste com o Oceano Pacífico e a Leste com o mar das Caraíbas (Oceano Atlântico). Na América do Norte, considera-se geralmente a América como um único continente, no entanto, esta região está assente numa placa tectónica individual - a Placa Caribeana - e pode portanto considerar-se um continente. Alguns geógrafos incluem o México inteiro nessa região. Existem montanhas ao longo de toda a região, sendo que as situadas ao sul são uma continuação dos Andes; a mais alta é a do monte Tajumulco na Guatemala com 4.220m de altitude. "
...
Oh my... You shouldn't have posted in Portuguese... Can we get a mod to close the thread now that someone posted in a foreign language pls?
You are wrong Salvaroti, it is well known around the world.
South America.
Central America.
North America.
If you live in South or Central America you will learn in primary school the existence of 3 Americas, is not that way in North America?
...
There are two Americas . Central America is a region of North America.
Yes, Central America is today a region of North America, but it has its own culture.
I am sorry Salvatoris there are three Americas, South, Central and North, in NA you may learn only about 2 americas, but in South, Central America and some European locations, there are and there will always be 3 Americas.
OK... should we apply the same rule to Southeast Asia, North Africa, Eastern Europe, Central Austrailia.... Where do we draw the line? Aren't there at least 20 or 30 distinct regions in the Continents of North and South America worthy of mention?
You are wrong Salvaroti, it is well known around the world.
South America.
Central America.
North America.
If you live in South or Central America you will learn in primary school the existence of 3 Americas, is not that way in North America?
...
There are two Americas . Central America is a region of North America.
Yes, Central America is today a region of North America, but it has its own culture.
I am sorry Salvatoris there are three Americas, South, Central and North, in NA you may learn only about 2 americas, but in South, Central America and some European locations, there are and there will always be 3 Americas.
OK... should we apply the same rule to Southeast Asia, North Africa, Eastern Europe, Central Austrailia.... Where do we draw the line? Aren't there at least 20 or 30 distinct regions in the Continents of North and South America worthy of mention?
Yes we should, and we do.
There are Eastern and Western Europe.
There are clear differences between countries in South America but they still are from SA.
History, Culture and Localization will always indicate where we draw the line.
Central America and Eastern Europe are well known and valid terms.
I am not making it up in South America children learn about the 3 Americas in their early school days, I am sorry it is not like that in North America.
You can´t compare Central, South and North America with central and south texas as you did.
... just a side not about wikipedia, I know I also used it here to reinforce my points, but unfortunately, it is not always a valid source today, check what wikipedia say about Jenkem (wich is nothing but a joke).
My bad Breakheart . It is a bit sad to realize today the cultural relevance of North, South AND Central America lost its strength for some counties (as it seems)...
...
Lol np, my main language is portuguese, but i decided to keep it in english so i could dodge the trolls
'to get by in western culture, you need to know english' good luck in france my friend western culture has its heritage in Europe ..and the main language there the mostly spoken is German if im not totally mistaken( Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy (Province of Bolzano-Bozen) Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Denmark, Belgium). Youd be suprised how many ppl in those countries dont have a clue bout english.Also i assume i dont have to point out that spanish or portugueseis part of the western culture , you got your doubts go read some history books. Although ive to say for the internet ,specialy for gamesites ENGLISH LANGUAGE is a must no way around that. And for monitoring the forum i understand that they dont allow any other language atm.
Learn how to form good and proper sentences.
Anyways, you people are argueing about the wrong thing.
It should be about Sean Dahlberg's knee-jerk reaction.
This is a western game by a United States company.
Learn. English.
[offtopicrant] It's almost as irritating as the people you see in the States walking around speaking Spanish and other languages instead of using Enlgish. If you're American, you speak English, end of discussion. [/offtopicrant]
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
First, this whole is he a moderator or not is moot. He is a manager for the community, i.e. the forums, emails, phones, etc., and therefore has the authority to make moderator calls on the forums, as he is ultimately responsible for what happens on them.
Second, this is an American company, who's countries recognized official language is English. Not Eubonics, Spanish, Mexican, Spanglish, etc., and therefore is not required to learn those languages to support those communities. Does this make it a good thing? No. Customer Support is just that. Hire a spanish speaking person. I am fairly certain Bioware or Lucas Arts can afford it.
Third, the game is still in development. Full customer support does not have to be available, i.e. they don't want to have to deal with translating posts with languages not understood by the current staff because of the clutter and possible translation errors which we all know the various translation engines make.
Finally, turn your television on recently? Mexico is almost a hostile country right now due to the fact that drug lords are trying to take over the government. Most of South America has been hostile due to the same reason and the fact that American forces have made several forays into those countries to oust the corrupt leaders who are pumping drugs into this country as fast as they can. It would stand to reason, this being the case, that spanish being spoken on a development forum might be considered as possibly hostile and/or a liability to the company. Who is to say the guy wasn't actually hooking up with people from Stateside to set up a drug shipment?
But, basically what it all comes down to is this. A company reserves the right to do business with whomever it wishes. The choices made by said company can and most likely will have major effects on whether it stays in business or not, but that is their choice. I am pretty sure, being that Bioware and Lucas Arts are both internationally renowned companies, that foriegn language support will come, but later, after all the development in the recognized official release language game has been hammered out.
p.s. I took spanish as a second language in highschool, because I lived in Texas at the time so I knew I would run into it.
This is a western game by a United States company.
Learn. English.
[offtopicrant] It's almost as irritating as the people you see in the States walking around speaking Spanish and other languages instead of using Enlgish. If you're American, you speak English, end of discussion. [/offtopicrant]
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
This is a western game by a United States company.
Learn. English.
[offtopicrant] It's almost as irritating as the people you see in the States walking around speaking Spanish and other languages instead of using Enlgish. If you're American, you speak English, end of discussion. [/offtopicrant]
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
Damn straight! The American Revolution was fought for our right to not have all those extra "u"s in half our words. USA! USA! USA!
I don't go to Chinese or Korean made game forums and expect them to read and answer any post I made in English, so why would I expect an English speaking game to respond to Spanish written posts?
As a more serious reply to the original post, I see nothing wrong with how it was handled. It was pointed out that their forums don't currently support non-english languages (due to their inability to verify what is being posted abides by the RoC) and closed the thread. It was a non-hostile response which included an explanation.
The general procedure is to have single language forums initially (usually the language where the game is being made), add forums for other major languages near launch, and add a forum or two for other languages if there is enough demand for them due to a large number of sales in regions where those languages are spoken. The reasons are generally cost related, as it requires more employees to support more languages. It is best to not add employees until they are necessary, especially at the point where you have only costs and no revenue from the product, since the product is still in development.
This is a western game by a United States company.
Learn. English.
[offtopicrant] It's almost as irritating as the people you see in the States walking around speaking Spanish and other languages instead of using Enlgish. If you're American, you speak English, end of discussion. [/offtopicrant]
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
If you are going to live in this country and benefit from all that the USA has to offer, then you must abide by it's laws, rules and customs. It's part of the price for being a citizen or resident. Part of that custom is speaking english. I, in no way said you shouldn't know and speak your original language, but I do have a problem when I can't get a job in my own country because I don't speak another language, especially when I'm dealing exclusively with American cititzens, residents or illegal aliens who can't be bothered to learn English. It's sheer arrogance, rude and disrespectful of the country you live in.
It's one thing to have or get a job that deals primarily with Mexican tourists, quite another when it's our own hispanic citizens who refuse to learn or speak english.
I'm curious as to why Mexicans are the only ethnic group to ever immigrate to the USA and essentially demand that we cater to their customs and language while everyone else integrates and is even proud to call themselves American first.
I'm a mutt, I have Italian, Irish, Swedish, English blood running in my veins and I have a great respect for my heritage, but I am first and foremost American, why, because it's my home. It doesn't matter if I was born here or not, I live here now and it is now part of my identity.
The problem is that we have over 20 million illegal mexican immigrants in our country and they don't give a damn about our country or out customs, they just want our jobs so they can send money back home to mexico. The biggest insult is that they don't think they should have to learn our language to pay for that privelege.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
This is a western game by a United States company.
Learn. English.
[offtopicrant] It's almost as irritating as the people you see in the States walking around speaking Spanish and other languages instead of using Enlgish. If you're American, you speak English, end of discussion. [/offtopicrant]
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
If you are going to live in this country and benefit from all that the USA has to offer, then you must abide by it's laws, rules and customs. It's part of the price for being a citizen or resident. Part of that custom is speaking english. I, in no way said you shouldn't know and speak your original language, but I do have a problem when I can't get a job in my own country because I don't speak another language, especially when I'm dealing exclusively with American cititzens, residents or illegal aliens who can't be bothered to learn English. It's sheer arrogance, rude and disrespectful of the country you live in.
It's one thing to have or get a job that deals primarily with Mexican tourists, quite another when it's our own hispanic citizens who refuse to learn or speak english.
I'm curious as to why Mexicans are the only ethnic group to ever immigrate to the USA and essentially demand that we cater to their customs and language while everyone else integrates and is even proud to call themselves American first.
I'm a mutt, I have Italian, Irish, Swedish, English blood running in my veins and I have a great respect for my heritage, but I am first and foremost American, why, because it's my home. It doesn't matter if I was born here or not, I live here now and it is now part of my identity.
The problem is that we have over 20 million illegal mexican immigrants in our country and they don't give a damn about our country or out customs, they just want our jobs so they can send money back home to mexico. The biggest insult is that they don't think they should have to learn our language to pay for that privelege.
Apparently they don't have to adhere to our laws. They come over illegaly, don't speak a lick of english, scoop up jobs and now some politicians have hinted at letting them stay ... even give them the right to vote. Free medical for illegals anyone? I think NY even brought up possibly giving them driver licenses.
So one might think common sense would dictate, but it seems the exact opposite is happening.
This is a western game by a United States company.
Learn. English.
[offtopicrant] It's almost as irritating as the people you see in the States walking around speaking Spanish and other languages instead of using Enlgish. If you're American, you speak English, end of discussion. [/offtopicrant]
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
If you are going to live in this country and benefit from all that the USA has to offer, then you must abide by it's laws, rules and customs. It's part of the price for being a citizen or resident. Part of that custom is speaking english. I, in no way said you shouldn't know and speak your original language, but I do have a problem when I can't get a job in my own country because I don't speak another language, especially when I'm dealing exclusively with American cititzens, residents or illegal aliens who can't be bothered to learn English. It's sheer arrogance, rude and disrespectful of the country you live in.
It's one thing to have or get a job that deals primarily with Mexican tourists, quite another when it's our own hispanic citizens who refuse to learn or speak english.
I'm curious as to why Mexicans are the only ethnic group to ever immigrate to the USA and essentially demand that we cater to their customs and language while everyone else integrates and is even proud to call themselves American first.
I'm a mutt, I have Italian, Irish, Swedish, English blood running in my veins and I have a great respect for my heritage, but I am first and foremost American, why, because it's my home. It doesn't matter if I was born here or not, I live here now and it is now part of my identity.
The problem is that we have over 20 million illegal mexican immigrants in our country and they don't give a damn about our country or out customs, they just want our jobs so they can send money back home to mexico. The biggest insult is that they don't think they should have to learn our language to pay for that privelege.
i believe you are grossly generalising. additionaly, i would seriously doubt that anyone who moves to the US does not bother to learn english. Naturally, it is more challenging for grown-ups to pick up a language as fast as youngsters.
also, whilst their kids may be borne in the US and become citizens, their parents will contine speaking their language at home for practical and cultural reasons. the cultural reasons are obvious - its the language of their "ancestors" and what they identify themselves with.
the main practical reason is that they will teach their children a second language by speaking it at home, for the english they will learn at school and in the streets. by doing this they are increasing their childs chances of finding jobs later on that require them to be bi-lingual.
edit: and its always "easy" to blame outsiders for your problems. i suggest looking at what the government has done over the past 8 years and you might find the answer you seek. mexicans don't run the US government.
To respond to a few ill advised posts that were directed to me that I cant bother quoting direclty, since when have any countries in central or South America been considered part of the Western culture? We are not having a historical discussion here so by all means feel free to keep your irrelevent rants about paying homage to the Roman Empire for coining the phrase "Western Culture" to yourself and deal with reality instead of semantics. If you had anything to say at all about my use of Western culture and it being mutually exclusive with the english language, perhaps point out Japan. If you're going to argue with me, at least be moderately coherent. If you're going to travel to Japan I highly advise you to learn basic Japanese. But dont try to claim that third world countries in Latin America are suddenly part of Western culture because you said so, thats just ignorant.
Anyways the original point was lost and a few other posters have touched on it again already. Theres no such thing as bringing your culture, language, and customs to ethnic parts of the world if you're Anglo. You either adapt or at best you starve. If I were to pluck any one of you caucasian chaps out of your warm cozy bed and fling you into the dark and nasty parts of the world you read about and think you know so much about, they would not give two shits about you or where you come from. You're not Indiana Jones, and you're not going to find a dumb perky Lebanese guy to show you around town on a camel. That's why its so laughable when you see ultra sensitive Americans get their panties in such a twist when they see random guy who isnt white not getting his way and cry racism like bloody murder. And why assume that anyone who is not bending over backwards tolerant to ethnics is American? That type of self loathing guilt is uniformly American rhetoric. And we dont share your mentality here in "we dont have cable TV" land.
Everything you said now doesn't change the fact you were absolute wrong when you said " You obviously do not know that "western culture" refers to America, Canada, Australia, the UK etc. or mainly any other primarily english speaking countries today."
Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany, France, Greece and even Mexico are more influente to what is considered Western Culture today than Australia, your claim that Western Culture is composed by primarily english speaking countries is false.
Notice how we are all debating this in English. This thread would be a lot harder to follow if users were posting in spanish, greek, german, chinese, punjabi, tagalog, and whatever. Just thought I'd point that out. LOL.
This is a western game by a United States company.
Learn. English.
[offtopicrant] It's almost as irritating as the people you see in the States walking around speaking Spanish and other languages instead of using Enlgish. If you're American, you speak English, end of discussion. [/offtopicrant]
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
If you are going to live in this country and benefit from all that the USA has to offer, then you must abide by it's laws, rules and customs. It's part of the price for being a citizen or resident. Part of that custom is speaking english. I, in no way said you shouldn't know and speak your original language, but I do have a problem when I can't get a job in my own country because I don't speak another language, especially when I'm dealing exclusively with American cititzens, residents or illegal aliens who can't be bothered to learn English. It's sheer arrogance, rude and disrespectful of the country you live in.
It's one thing to have or get a job that deals primarily with Mexican tourists, quite another when it's our own hispanic citizens who refuse to learn or speak english.
I'm curious as to why Mexicans are the only ethnic group to ever immigrate to the USA and essentially demand that we cater to their customs and language while everyone else integrates and is even proud to call themselves American first.
I'm a mutt, I have Italian, Irish, Swedish, English blood running in my veins and I have a great respect for my heritage, but I am first and foremost American, why, because it's my home. It doesn't matter if I was born here or not, I live here now and it is now part of my identity.
The problem is that we have over 20 million illegal mexican immigrants in our country and they don't give a damn about our country or out customs, they just want our jobs so they can send money back home to mexico. The biggest insult is that they don't think they should have to learn our language to pay for that privelege.
i believe you are grossly generalising. additionaly, i would seriously doubt that anyone who moves to the US does not bother to learn english. Naturally, it is more challenging for grown-ups to pick up a language as fast as youngsters.
also, whilst their kids may be borne in the US and become citizens, their parents will contine speaking their language at home for practical and cultural reasons. the cultural reasons are obvious - its the language of their "ancestors" and what they identify themselves with.
the main practical reason is that they will teach their children a second language by speaking it at home, for the english they will learn at school and in the streets. by doing this they are increasing their childs chances of finding jobs later on that require them to be bi-lingual.
edit: and its always "easy" to blame outsiders for your problems. i suggest looking at what the government has done over the past 8 years and you might find the answer you seek. mexicans don't run the US government.
Genrealizing? I'm experiencing it first hand. Try to get a job down here bub and then we'll see how you view things differently afterwards. This isn't about celebrating your heritage, it's about learning the language of the land you live in. I can't even get a job at frikken Whataburger unless I speak spanish. That's how ridiculous it has become. Once again, we aren't dealing with Mexican tourists, it's all the local hispanics who either don't speak english or refuse to do so. I walk into Wal-Mart on a daily basis. Many of their employees do not understand english. More often than not have to wait around for one of the spanish speaking associates to find an english speaking one.
I was like you, I lived in Arkansas for many, many years and I never ran across this phenomena even though we had a very large Hispanic population working in the chicken plants (Tyson's) The difference is that our local government and populace would not cater to the immigrants, forcing them to learn english. It's not the same everywhere, obviously, becaause down here they cater to their every whim. When I first moved down here 3 years ago, I had to get a replacement Social Security Card. I waited in line for over 2 hours and when I finally got to the front desk, the person only spoke Spanish. I ended up having to move over 2 lines for an english speaking employee. I was the only person who spoke english the entire 2 hours I was there.
I think it's great to know 2 or more languages, but if you're going to be living in a country, you better damn well speak it's language as well, there is no excuse for such rudeness.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
whatever country you live in you should speak that language. you chose to move there. it wouldnt be fair of me to move to germany and expect everyone to perfectly understand me, but it seems like many people who come as immigrants to the USA expect us to understand wth they are saying (spanish, chinese, just a couple of examples). for those who dont live in america ill tell you what im talking about. america is one of the biggest countries in the world. we are not like a country in europe for example who have to worry about driving one direction for 2 hours and ending up in another countries. i live in northern california it takes me about 15 hours to drive to either the canadian or mexican boarder. 15!!!! how much spanish do you expect me to understand? i dont need it and i shouldnt need it. now if i lived closer to the boarder i would probably be able to remember my spanish better because i would actually use it. but we are not a small country. i dont have to worry about crossing the boarder into another country on accident. now i wont disagree with anyone who says that learning a second language is good. sure it would probably benefit everyone if they learned a second language but most people in america dont really need a second language (until the last couple of years it seems) if i moved to another country of course i would learn the language of the land thats the right thing to do.
/end rant
ps- oh and also if your just visiting a country, its fine not to learn the language because you are not staying but it would probably help if you picked up a little before you left or as you were in that country
Comments
There are two Americas . Central America is a region of North America.
Yes, Central America is today a region of North America, but it has its own culture.
I am sorry Salvatoris there are three Americas, South, Central and North, in NA you may learn only about 2 americas, but in South, Central America and some European locations, there are and there will always be 3 Americas.
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A9rica_Central
"A América Central (também Centroamérica em espanhol) é a região do mundo limitada ao norte pela Península de Iucatã, no México e ao sul pela Colômbia, limitando a Oeste com o Oceano Pacífico e a Leste com o mar das Caraíbas (Oceano Atlântico). Na América do Norte, considera-se geralmente a América como um único continente, no entanto, esta região está assente numa placa tectónica individual - a Placa Caribeana - e pode portanto considerar-se um continente. Alguns geógrafos incluem o México inteiro nessa região. Existem montanhas ao longo de toda a região, sendo que as situadas ao sul são uma continuação dos Andes; a mais alta é a do monte Tajumulco na Guatemala com 4.220m de altitude. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_America
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There are two Americas . Central America is a region of North America.
Yes, Central America is today a region of North America, but it has its own culture.
I am sorry Salvatoris there are three Americas, South, Central and North, in NA you may learn only about 2 americas, but in South, Central America and some European locations, there are and there will always be 3 Americas.
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A9rica_Central
"A América Central (também Centroamérica em espanhol) é a região do mundo limitada ao norte pela Península de Iucatã, no México e ao sul pela Colômbia, limitando a Oeste com o Oceano Pacífico e a Leste com o mar das Caraíbas (Oceano Atlântico). Na América do Norte, considera-se geralmente a América como um único continente, no entanto, esta região está assente numa placa tectónica individual - a Placa Caribeana - e pode portanto considerar-se um continente. Alguns geógrafos incluem o México inteiro nessa região. Existem montanhas ao longo de toda a região, sendo que as situadas ao sul são uma continuação dos Andes; a mais alta é a do monte Tajumulco na Guatemala com 4.220m de altitude. "
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Oh my... You shouldn't have posted in Portuguese... Can we get a mod to close the thread now that someone posted in a foreign language pls?
My bad Breakheart
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It is a bit sad to realize today the cultural relevance of North, South AND Central America lost its strength for some counties (as it seems)...
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There are two Americas . Central America is a region of North America.
Yes, Central America is today a region of North America, but it has its own culture.
I am sorry Salvatoris there are three Americas, South, Central and North, in NA you may learn only about 2 americas, but in South, Central America and some European locations, there are and there will always be 3 Americas.
OK... should we apply the same rule to Southeast Asia, North Africa, Eastern Europe, Central Austrailia.... Where do we draw the line? Aren't there at least 20 or 30 distinct regions in the Continents of North and South America worthy of mention?
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
There are two Americas . Central America is a region of North America.
Yes, Central America is today a region of North America, but it has its own culture.
I am sorry Salvatoris there are three Americas, South, Central and North, in NA you may learn only about 2 americas, but in South, Central America and some European locations, there are and there will always be 3 Americas.
OK... should we apply the same rule to Southeast Asia, North Africa, Eastern Europe, Central Austrailia.... Where do we draw the line? Aren't there at least 20 or 30 distinct regions in the Continents of North and South America worthy of mention?
Yes we should, and we do.
There are Eastern and Western Europe.
There are clear differences between countries in South America but they still are from SA.
History, Culture and Localization will always indicate where we draw the line.
Central America and Eastern Europe are well known and valid terms.
I am not making it up in South America children learn about the 3 Americas in their early school days, I am sorry it is not like that in North America.
You can´t compare Central, South and North America with central and south texas as you did.
... just a side not about wikipedia, I know I also used it here to reinforce my points, but unfortunately, it is not always a valid source today, check what wikipedia say about Jenkem (wich is nothing but a joke).
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Lol np, my main language is portuguese, but i decided to keep it in english so i could dodge the trolls
Then he shouldn't be moderating.
I have been on those forums so I know.
Right, he should be answering the phone and making coffee.
He is not fit to moderate.
It's always difficult to make you understand.
Learn how to form good and proper sentences.
Anyways, you people are argueing about the wrong thing.
It should be about Sean Dahlberg's knee-jerk reaction.
Then he shouldn't be moderating.
I have been on those forums so I know.
Right, he should be answering the phone and making coffee.
He is not fit to moderate.
It's always difficult to make you understand.
I understand you're not fit to judge his proven abilies.
And what makes you think that I'm not fit to judge his moderating?
You are just a pain in the neck and has always been.
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
My 2 cents.
First, this whole is he a moderator or not is moot. He is a manager for the community, i.e. the forums, emails, phones, etc., and therefore has the authority to make moderator calls on the forums, as he is ultimately responsible for what happens on them.
Second, this is an American company, who's countries recognized official language is English. Not Eubonics, Spanish, Mexican, Spanglish, etc., and therefore is not required to learn those languages to support those communities. Does this make it a good thing? No. Customer Support is just that. Hire a spanish speaking person. I am fairly certain Bioware or Lucas Arts can afford it.
Third, the game is still in development. Full customer support does not have to be available, i.e. they don't want to have to deal with translating posts with languages not understood by the current staff because of the clutter and possible translation errors which we all know the various translation engines make.
Finally, turn your television on recently? Mexico is almost a hostile country right now due to the fact that drug lords are trying to take over the government. Most of South America has been hostile due to the same reason and the fact that American forces have made several forays into those countries to oust the corrupt leaders who are pumping drugs into this country as fast as they can. It would stand to reason, this being the case, that spanish being spoken on a development forum might be considered as possibly hostile and/or a liability to the company. Who is to say the guy wasn't actually hooking up with people from Stateside to set up a drug shipment?
But, basically what it all comes down to is this. A company reserves the right to do business with whomever it wishes. The choices made by said company can and most likely will have major effects on whether it stays in business or not, but that is their choice. I am pretty sure, being that Bioware and Lucas Arts are both internationally renowned companies, that foriegn language support will come, but later, after all the development in the recognized official release language game has been hammered out.
p.s. I took spanish as a second language in highschool, because I lived in Texas at the time so I knew I would run into it.
And what makes you think that I'm not fit to judge his moderating?
You are just a pain in the neck and has always been.
Your inability to do so pretty much nails it.
You are just trolling now.
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
Damn straight! The American Revolution was fought for our right to not have all those extra "u"s in half our words. USA! USA! USA!
I don't go to Chinese or Korean made game forums and expect them to read and answer any post I made in English, so why would I expect an English speaking game to respond to Spanish written posts?
As a more serious reply to the original post, I see nothing wrong with how it was handled. It was pointed out that their forums don't currently support non-english languages (due to their inability to verify what is being posted abides by the RoC) and closed the thread. It was a non-hostile response which included an explanation.
The general procedure is to have single language forums initially (usually the language where the game is being made), add forums for other major languages near launch, and add a forum or two for other languages if there is enough demand for them due to a large number of sales in regions where those languages are spoken. The reasons are generally cost related, as it requires more employees to support more languages. It is best to not add employees until they are necessary, especially at the point where you have only costs and no revenue from the product, since the product is still in development.
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
If you are going to live in this country and benefit from all that the USA has to offer, then you must abide by it's laws, rules and customs. It's part of the price for being a citizen or resident. Part of that custom is speaking english. I, in no way said you shouldn't know and speak your original language, but I do have a problem when I can't get a job in my own country because I don't speak another language, especially when I'm dealing exclusively with American cititzens, residents or illegal aliens who can't be bothered to learn English. It's sheer arrogance, rude and disrespectful of the country you live in.
It's one thing to have or get a job that deals primarily with Mexican tourists, quite another when it's our own hispanic citizens who refuse to learn or speak english.
I'm curious as to why Mexicans are the only ethnic group to ever immigrate to the USA and essentially demand that we cater to their customs and language while everyone else integrates and is even proud to call themselves American first.
I'm a mutt, I have Italian, Irish, Swedish, English blood running in my veins and I have a great respect for my heritage, but I am first and foremost American, why, because it's my home. It doesn't matter if I was born here or not, I live here now and it is now part of my identity.
The problem is that we have over 20 million illegal mexican immigrants in our country and they don't give a damn about our country or out customs, they just want our jobs so they can send money back home to mexico. The biggest insult is that they don't think they should have to learn our language to pay for that privelege.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
If you are going to live in this country and benefit from all that the USA has to offer, then you must abide by it's laws, rules and customs. It's part of the price for being a citizen or resident. Part of that custom is speaking english. I, in no way said you shouldn't know and speak your original language, but I do have a problem when I can't get a job in my own country because I don't speak another language, especially when I'm dealing exclusively with American cititzens, residents or illegal aliens who can't be bothered to learn English. It's sheer arrogance, rude and disrespectful of the country you live in.
It's one thing to have or get a job that deals primarily with Mexican tourists, quite another when it's our own hispanic citizens who refuse to learn or speak english.
I'm curious as to why Mexicans are the only ethnic group to ever immigrate to the USA and essentially demand that we cater to their customs and language while everyone else integrates and is even proud to call themselves American first.
I'm a mutt, I have Italian, Irish, Swedish, English blood running in my veins and I have a great respect for my heritage, but I am first and foremost American, why, because it's my home. It doesn't matter if I was born here or not, I live here now and it is now part of my identity.
The problem is that we have over 20 million illegal mexican immigrants in our country and they don't give a damn about our country or out customs, they just want our jobs so they can send money back home to mexico. The biggest insult is that they don't think they should have to learn our language to pay for that privelege.
Apparently they don't have to adhere to our laws. They come over illegaly, don't speak a lick of english, scoop up jobs and now some politicians have hinted at letting them stay ... even give them the right to vote. Free medical for illegals anyone? I think NY even brought up possibly giving them driver licenses.
So one might think common sense would dictate, but it seems the exact opposite is happening.
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
If you are going to live in this country and benefit from all that the USA has to offer, then you must abide by it's laws, rules and customs. It's part of the price for being a citizen or resident. Part of that custom is speaking english. I, in no way said you shouldn't know and speak your original language, but I do have a problem when I can't get a job in my own country because I don't speak another language, especially when I'm dealing exclusively with American cititzens, residents or illegal aliens who can't be bothered to learn English. It's sheer arrogance, rude and disrespectful of the country you live in.
It's one thing to have or get a job that deals primarily with Mexican tourists, quite another when it's our own hispanic citizens who refuse to learn or speak english.
I'm curious as to why Mexicans are the only ethnic group to ever immigrate to the USA and essentially demand that we cater to their customs and language while everyone else integrates and is even proud to call themselves American first.
I'm a mutt, I have Italian, Irish, Swedish, English blood running in my veins and I have a great respect for my heritage, but I am first and foremost American, why, because it's my home. It doesn't matter if I was born here or not, I live here now and it is now part of my identity.
The problem is that we have over 20 million illegal mexican immigrants in our country and they don't give a damn about our country or out customs, they just want our jobs so they can send money back home to mexico. The biggest insult is that they don't think they should have to learn our language to pay for that privelege.
i believe you are grossly generalising. additionaly, i would seriously doubt that anyone who moves to the US does not bother to learn english. Naturally, it is more challenging for grown-ups to pick up a language as fast as youngsters.
also, whilst their kids may be borne in the US and become citizens, their parents will contine speaking their language at home for practical and cultural reasons. the cultural reasons are obvious - its the language of their "ancestors" and what they identify themselves with.
the main practical reason is that they will teach their children a second language by speaking it at home, for the english they will learn at school and in the streets. by doing this they are increasing their childs chances of finding jobs later on that require them to be bi-lingual.
edit: and its always "easy" to blame outsiders for your problems. i suggest looking at what the government has done over the past 8 years and you might find the answer you seek. mexicans don't run the US government.
To respond to a few ill advised posts that were directed to me that I cant bother quoting direclty, since when have any countries in central or South America been considered part of the Western culture? We are not having a historical discussion here so by all means feel free to keep your irrelevent rants about paying homage to the Roman Empire for coining the phrase "Western Culture" to yourself and deal with reality instead of semantics. If you had anything to say at all about my use of Western culture and it being mutually exclusive with the english language, perhaps point out Japan. If you're going to argue with me, at least be moderately coherent. If you're going to travel to Japan I highly advise you to learn basic Japanese. But dont try to claim that third world countries in Latin America are suddenly part of Western culture because you said so, thats just ignorant.
Anyways the original point was lost and a few other posters have touched on it again already. Theres no such thing as bringing your culture, language, and customs to ethnic parts of the world if you're Anglo. You either adapt or at best you starve. If I were to pluck any one of you caucasian chaps out of your warm cozy bed and fling you into the dark and nasty parts of the world you read about and think you know so much about, they would not give two shits about you or where you come from. You're not Indiana Jones, and you're not going to find a dumb perky Lebanese guy to show you around town on a camel. That's why its so laughable when you see ultra sensitive Americans get their panties in such a twist when they see random guy who isnt white not getting his way and cry racism like bloody murder. And why assume that anyone who is not bending over backwards tolerant to ethnics is American? That type of self loathing guilt is uniformly American rhetoric. And we dont share your mentality here in "we dont have cable TV" land.
Ishalla
Everything you said now doesn't change the fact you were absolute wrong when you said " You obviously do not know that "western culture" refers to America, Canada, Australia, the UK etc. or mainly any other primarily english speaking countries today."
Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany, France, Greece and even Mexico are more influente to what is considered Western Culture today than Australia, your claim that Western Culture is composed by primarily english speaking countries is false.
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Notice how we are all debating this in English. This thread would be a lot harder to follow if users were posting in spanish, greek, german, chinese, punjabi, tagalog, and whatever. Just thought I'd point that out. LOL.
maybe because english is not their native tongue, but spanish is? maybe because they want to keep their traditions and identity?
your "irritation" seems to go hand in hand with your lack of tollerance perhaps?
Tell that to people like me, who live in south Texas who are barred from many, many jobs because we aren't bilingual. Not to cater to tourism from Mexico, but from lazy assed Mexican Americans who can't be bothered to learn English and expect the rest of us to learn Spanish instead. The sheer arrogance of it is mind boggling.
On topic, it would be common sense and to be honest, just plain common courtesy to speak the language of the board you are visiting. Are you telling me he couldn't even try to search for a spanish website for the game?
Woo - this thread owns! I speak American! And everyone else better speak it too.
If you are going to live in this country and benefit from all that the USA has to offer, then you must abide by it's laws, rules and customs. It's part of the price for being a citizen or resident. Part of that custom is speaking english. I, in no way said you shouldn't know and speak your original language, but I do have a problem when I can't get a job in my own country because I don't speak another language, especially when I'm dealing exclusively with American cititzens, residents or illegal aliens who can't be bothered to learn English. It's sheer arrogance, rude and disrespectful of the country you live in.
It's one thing to have or get a job that deals primarily with Mexican tourists, quite another when it's our own hispanic citizens who refuse to learn or speak english.
I'm curious as to why Mexicans are the only ethnic group to ever immigrate to the USA and essentially demand that we cater to their customs and language while everyone else integrates and is even proud to call themselves American first.
I'm a mutt, I have Italian, Irish, Swedish, English blood running in my veins and I have a great respect for my heritage, but I am first and foremost American, why, because it's my home. It doesn't matter if I was born here or not, I live here now and it is now part of my identity.
The problem is that we have over 20 million illegal mexican immigrants in our country and they don't give a damn about our country or out customs, they just want our jobs so they can send money back home to mexico. The biggest insult is that they don't think they should have to learn our language to pay for that privelege.
i believe you are grossly generalising. additionaly, i would seriously doubt that anyone who moves to the US does not bother to learn english. Naturally, it is more challenging for grown-ups to pick up a language as fast as youngsters.
also, whilst their kids may be borne in the US and become citizens, their parents will contine speaking their language at home for practical and cultural reasons. the cultural reasons are obvious - its the language of their "ancestors" and what they identify themselves with.
the main practical reason is that they will teach their children a second language by speaking it at home, for the english they will learn at school and in the streets. by doing this they are increasing their childs chances of finding jobs later on that require them to be bi-lingual.
edit: and its always "easy" to blame outsiders for your problems. i suggest looking at what the government has done over the past 8 years and you might find the answer you seek. mexicans don't run the US government.
Genrealizing? I'm experiencing it first hand. Try to get a job down here bub and then we'll see how you view things differently afterwards. This isn't about celebrating your heritage, it's about learning the language of the land you live in. I can't even get a job at frikken Whataburger unless I speak spanish. That's how ridiculous it has become. Once again, we aren't dealing with Mexican tourists, it's all the local hispanics who either don't speak english or refuse to do so. I walk into Wal-Mart on a daily basis. Many of their employees do not understand english. More often than not have to wait around for one of the spanish speaking associates to find an english speaking one.
I was like you, I lived in Arkansas for many, many years and I never ran across this phenomena even though we had a very large Hispanic population working in the chicken plants (Tyson's) The difference is that our local government and populace would not cater to the immigrants, forcing them to learn english. It's not the same everywhere, obviously, becaause down here they cater to their every whim. When I first moved down here 3 years ago, I had to get a replacement Social Security Card. I waited in line for over 2 hours and when I finally got to the front desk, the person only spoke Spanish. I ended up having to move over 2 lines for an english speaking employee. I was the only person who spoke english the entire 2 hours I was there.
I think it's great to know 2 or more languages, but if you're going to be living in a country, you better damn well speak it's language as well, there is no excuse for such rudeness.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
whatever country you live in you should speak that language. you chose to move there. it wouldnt be fair of me to move to germany and expect everyone to perfectly understand me, but it seems like many people who come as immigrants to the USA expect us to understand wth they are saying (spanish, chinese, just a couple of examples). for those who dont live in america ill tell you what im talking about. america is one of the biggest countries in the world. we are not like a country in europe for example who have to worry about driving one direction for 2 hours and ending up in another countries. i live in northern california it takes me about 15 hours to drive to either the canadian or mexican boarder. 15!!!! how much spanish do you expect me to understand? i dont need it and i shouldnt need it. now if i lived closer to the boarder i would probably be able to remember my spanish better because i would actually use it. but we are not a small country. i dont have to worry about crossing the boarder into another country on accident. now i wont disagree with anyone who says that learning a second language is good. sure it would probably benefit everyone if they learned a second language but most people in america dont really need a second language (until the last couple of years it seems) if i moved to another country of course i would learn the language of the land thats the right thing to do.
/end rant
ps- oh and also if your just visiting a country, its fine not to learn the language because you are not staying but it would probably help if you picked up a little before you left or as you were in that country