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Ground Combat: What should it be like?
ktanner3
Member UncommonPosts: 4,063
Not a lot has come out about what the ground game will be and I am curious as to this communities thoughts on how the combat system should be for that part of the game. All ideas welcome, and please take any personal vendettas someplace else.
What I don't want to see: An NGE/Twitch system where people are running all over the place. That was the worse combat system I have ever seen in a game. And for goodness sakes, no buffs please. All they do is turn the game into a buff war and prolong fights.
What I do want to see: Some system similiar to what SWG had BEFORE all the changes. You have three ham bars(health,action,mind), your effectiveness in firing was different in the kneeling and prone positions and it was more strategic.Just make sure that the fights don't go on forever.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
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i say yes to buffs
Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
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Personally I'd prefer a FPS/twitch system but I understand why others don't like it. Other than FPS/twitch based MMORPG's I haven't played one were the combat in itself was fun.
Since you may often be responsiable for controlling NPC's I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of turn based combat but would still prefer real time.
I don't value the combat mechanics of these type of games much, there more of a means to a end rather than a end in themselves. By that I mean I don't play these games for combat rather I engage in the combat in order to advance in the game and even than I prefer crafting and other aspects more so than combat.
So all and all, I'd prefer a FPS/twitch style combat but I don't really care, if its fun great, if its not than as far as I'm concerned its no worse than most other MMORPG's.
No Buffs look at what they have done to SWG!
No Buffs look at what they have done to SWG!
I'd have to agree with this as well. Buffs just don't fit it with Star Trek. The only type of buff I might be OK with would be a command type buff. This would be automatic depending on your level of command or rank and would just make your NPCs fight a little better as a team. Also certain empathic races could give automatic buffs according to their racial abilities. Just their presence would give the buff just like the command buff I mentioned. Other than that it would be like... "Wait to attack until the doc gives us a dozen or so Hypos!". How many times have you seen that in Star Trek? Never.
As for combat in general I'm hoping for some kind of mix of traditional MMO mechanics and twitch based. I do hope that ground combat will be more than "Hit the auto attack button and than go make a sandwich" like in most MMOs today. That gets old very fast. I'd like to see a little player skill involved in deciding battles and not just what your character stats (and your NPC's stats) are compared to your opponents.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
No Buffs look at what they have done to SWG!
I'd have to agree with this as well. Buffs just don't fit it with Star Trek. The only type of buff I might be OK with would be a command type buff. This would be automatic depending on your level of command or rank and would just make your NPCs fight a little better as a team. Also certain empathic races could give automatic buffs according to their racial abilities. Just their presence would give the buff just like the command buff I mentioned. Other than that it would be like... "Wait to attack until the doc gives us a dozen or so Hypos!". How many times have you seen that in Star Trek? Never.
LOL. I don't remember too many cases of anything similiar happening in Star Wars either.
As for combat in general I'm hoping for some kind of mix of traditional MMO mechanics and twitch based. I do hope that ground combat will be more than "Hit the auto attack button and than go make a sandwich" like in most MMOs today. That gets old very fast. I'd like to see a little player skill involved in deciding battles and not just what your character stats (and your NPC's stats) are compared to your opponents.
Bren
On the latest ask Cryptic thread, I'm trying to get more info on this. Most posters have similiar feelings as you. They're tired of the combat in MMORPGs being dictated by level and stats.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
No Buffs look at what they have done to SWG!
I'd have to agree with this as well. Buffs just don't fit it with Star Trek. The only type of buff I might be OK with would be a command type buff. This would be automatic depending on your level of command or rank and would just make your NPCs fight a little better as a team. Also certain empathic races could give automatic buffs according to their racial abilities. Just their presence would give the buff just like the command buff I mentioned. Other than that it would be like... "Wait to attack until the doc gives us a dozen or so Hypos!". How many times have you seen that in Star Trek? Never.
LOL. I don't remember too many cases of anything similiar happening in Star Wars either.
On the latest ask Cryptic thread, I'm trying to get more info on this. Most posters have similiar feelings as you. They're tired of the combat in MMORPGs being dictated by level and stats.
I'm with Bren - buffs don't fit with Star Trek. People get more accurate, more flexible through training - not by some third party.
Well, except for those times when Q would give a crewman the Q-powers. :-P
-------------
The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
I am a FPS player and I wouldn't mind that being ground combat BUT I do understand its not popular and I understand atleast for myself that I can enjoy games that aren't exactly the way I would like them lol.
the only reason i like things like COD4 is that the way crouch, hide the weapons I choose decide my gameplay, not my level or macroed skill. Granted that there are levels but the setup still allows me to compete with people higher level then me
I think buffs are okay depending ont he way they are handled. A leader can give some persistant team buffs or tactical officer you bring gives you other buff. What I don't want is people to have a pocket Doctor injecting hypos day in day out. He could maybe give a regen buff but nothing that totally heals a guy.
the OP actually wants retarded point and click combat for what is perfect for a fps style... the nerve of these people no wonder mmo's these days all have the stupid combat.
obviously real time is the way to go.
speaking for myself i would much prefer a tps/twitch based combat over the standard move 3 inches from your oponent, point click and wait five minutes while until one of them eventually falls over
it was bad enough with blasters and sabres in SWG would just be plain ridiculous with phasers and disrupters that are meant to be able to vaporise people with one shot
The three ham bars would indicate a depth of play that I really haven't seen indicated by anything Cryptic has said up through this point. To be honest, it indicated a depth of play that was sadly missing from pre-NGE SGW as well. I think they always intended more for it than they were able to achieve.
No Buffs look at what they have done to SWG!
I'd have to agree with this as well. Buffs just don't fit it with Star Trek. The only type of buff I might be OK with would be a command type buff. This would be automatic depending on your level of command or rank and would just make your NPCs fight a little better as a team. Also certain empathic races could give automatic buffs according to their racial abilities. Just their presence would give the buff just like the command buff I mentioned. Other than that it would be like... "Wait to attack until the doc gives us a dozen or so Hypos!". How many times have you seen that in Star Trek? Never.
As for combat in general I'm hoping for some kind of mix of traditional MMO mechanics and twitch based. I do hope that ground combat will be more than "Hit the auto attack button and than go make a sandwich" like in most MMOs today. That gets old very fast. I'd like to see a little player skill involved in deciding battles and not just what your character stats (and your NPC's stats) are compared to your opponents.
Bren
For Buffs: Maybe a command / leadership from your tactical officer or Captain. Guys fight just a little better when the big boss is watching type of thing.
The only other type of buff would be something like TriOx they gave Kirk when he fought Spock on Vulcan. And all it did was allow him to operate full cap in a lower oxygen environment. Set it up so if certain planets have less oxygen or whatever and a normal 'person' (be it human or whatnot) wouldn't be at full operational ability than the buff would just bring them up to the normal level. Nothing that makes them superhuman.
For Combat: The old SWG style of prone / kneeling etc.... really only worked when the other side was just firing weapons, with the FPS/Twitch style now you pretty much have to keep moving just so some Officer or Mando doesn't nuke you with a grenade or artty strike.
What weapons are you anticipating in the game? Just phasers and disrupters etc.... ? Even the occasional grenade or mortor round? If so than prone / kneeling / LOS / cover etc..... utilizing some skill would be great. If they toss in area damage and all that happy c**p than it'll just default to players running all over the place.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
No Buffs look at what they have done to SWG!
I'd have to agree with this as well. Buffs just don't fit it with Star Trek. The only type of buff I might be OK with would be a command type buff. This would be automatic depending on your level of command or rank and would just make your NPCs fight a little better as a team. Also certain empathic races could give automatic buffs according to their racial abilities. Just their presence would give the buff just like the command buff I mentioned. Other than that it would be like... "Wait to attack until the doc gives us a dozen or so Hypos!". How many times have you seen that in Star Trek? Never.
As for combat in general I'm hoping for some kind of mix of traditional MMO mechanics and twitch based. I do hope that ground combat will be more than "Hit the auto attack button and than go make a sandwich" like in most MMOs today. That gets old very fast. I'd like to see a little player skill involved in deciding battles and not just what your character stats (and your NPC's stats) are compared to your opponents.
Bren
...
For Combat: The old SWG style of prone / kneeling etc.... really only worked when the other side was just firing weapons, with the FPS/Twitch style now you pretty much have to keep moving just so some Officer or Mando doesn't nuke you with a grenade or artty strike.
What weapons are you anticipating in the game? Just phasers and disrupters etc.... ? Even the occasional grenade or mortor round? If so than prone / kneeling / LOS / cover etc..... utilizing some skill would be great. If they toss in area damage and all that happy c**p than it'll just default to players running all over the place.
Grenades and mortars are certainly possible. I've seen them in the shows. as well as bombs, mines, personal deflector shields and low-tech stuff like rocks and knives.
I doubt it will happen, but theoretically, a telepath could do some sort of psychic attack or debuff - make the enemy get "confused" and turn on his allies. But I expect there to be some sort of telepath honor code to keep them from using their abilities like that.
-------------
The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
I'm hoping that the ground based combat is fast paced, but I don't think it needs to be twitch, nor do I think it will be. There's ways that they can give that feel though.
I think that there will in fact be buffs, but they'll be in the form of accentuated skills provided by what choices have been made in forming one's main bridge crew (I think these "buffs" that your bridge crew choices will provide as they've been spoken of in space combat will also apply to ground combat in some way). Buffs aren't a bad thing anyway. Not at all. They just offer more depth to things. Poorly implemented buffs are a bad thing though.
I would prefer a third person squad based shooter / twitch combat with an emphasis on realistic movements and fun gameplay
NO strafe/bunnyjumping clickfests though, come up with something that's realistic instead.
I wouldn't mind this as long as they made the use of cover of utmost importance(like in Mass Effect). This would be more realistic(also more like the shows) and would make sure the bunny hopping strafers wouldn't last very long in a fight.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
I wouldn't mind this as long as they made the use of cover of utmost importance(like in Mass Effect). This would be more realistic(also more like the shows) and would make sure the bunny hopping strafers wouldn't last very long in a fight.
Bren
Anything to get rid of the bunny hopping strafers. It looks so fake and unrealistic.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I wouldn't mind this as long as they made the use of cover of utmost importance(like in Mass Effect). This would be more realistic(also more like the shows) and would make sure the bunny hopping strafers wouldn't last very long in a fight.
Bren
Anything to get rid of the bunny hopping strafers. It looks so fake and unrealistic.
I agree but unfortunately it's the best way not to get shot in most twitch based FPS games. Lets all pray that the Cryptic devs are a little smarter than this. I really don't see them making combat in STO a pure Real-Time FPS type anyways as this has never been successfully implemented in a MMO due to the massive scale of things. Some have come close or cleverly disguised standard MMO mechanics to appear as if they were Real-Time FPS but due to latency issues they are limited to what they can do. There is a major difference between a server that supports 32-64 players and one that supports thousands.
I see at best Cryptic implementing a twitch based combat style but with standard MMO mechanics under the hood as this is the only way twitch based combat really works well in a MMO. Both Tabula Rasa and Hellgate: London used this and the combat mechanics themselves were great in both of those games but the implementation of the mechanics, not the mechanics themselves is what made the actual combat in those games seem just kinda... meh(It was all run and gun with no real strategy required).
Second Edit: I hope that it isn't FPS at all and is more of a 3rd person tactical/twitch type like the above poster stated. This style just is just better in my opinion for any squad based combat game like STO is supposed to be. It's a lot easier to see what your crew is doing if you have the broader perspective on the fight that a 3d person view gives.
Bren
(Edited to add that I'm talking about Real-Time FPS syle combat)
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}