I waited for the Trial to play Vanguard and I enjoyed it so I subscribed. I do have a few problems with the game on a bug basis and design basis but nothing major. Having hundreds of non-instanced dungeons must have sounded great during development but its a bust in game. Whats the point of having 10 dungeons in your level range when everyone only does 1? Theres a set dungeon/area that everyone does in every range because of the rewards/quests offered.
The point is to go somewhere else if one dungeon is too crowded, its so that you can acutally see different "cool" places other than just being stuck with 1 dungeon for 10 or so levels. Why go to dungeon with tons of people camping all the spots, when you can have a whole dungeon with 3 people or a full group and get all the rewards for yourselves?
People loved heading over to Trengal keep at low to high 20's...I skipped it all together and grinded at Wardship of the sleeping moon, started my faction early got all my armor pieces ready for turn ins. By the time I reach level 32 I had my full set, while people in their low to late 30's were still doing faction grinding and armor farming.
Well, I'm not sorry I upgraded a computer to get this game to run. Now, the other games I play run great!
Well I am sorry, because you made some piss poor choices when you upgraded than. I bought my computer the same week vanguard launched. Its played vanguard every setting maxed at 1920x1200 sence day 1, not only that it plays any game out right now every setting maxed.
You could build my computer now for about $1500 easy. Anyway shop smart bro.
swede2 I am curios could you please tell me the specs of your PC when you bought Vanguard?
My PC specs When I got Vanguard were-
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 / 2.4 GHz processor
2 gigs of Ram
GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB
Now I know by today's standards that not to good, but back when Vanguard was released it was a pretty good machine. Yet in dungeons like Achlatan Spider Caves I was dropping down to 1-10 FPS when it got busy.
That machine configuration shouldn't be running at 1-10 fps... Maybe you should run a clean boot using msconfig to turn off all startup programs to see if something is sucking your cpu/memory.
I would love to get back into Vanguard. However, at the current back-burner state of the game with no promise of expansion or major content upgrades (at least in a timely fashion) it's hard to justify spending hours into a game that may just dissapear or even worse... left on life support.
Patheon of the Ancients, level cap increases and Alternate Abilities??? ...... Will be the biggest game update to date.
Think about what you just said and then compare it what other mmos have done in their games in the same 2+ year time span. Saying something is the biggest when comparing it to itself hardly dismisses what fatgamer says. Love this game or hate it, the game does not have enough developer resources. For some that is fine, but for many others that just means the game will not grow at a pace that is worthy of a time investment.
5 more levels just means 5 more experience bars to fill. That is not content. Alternate advancement is just more experience bars to fill once you are done filling level experience bars. That is not content. Pantheon of the ancients is content, but how long has that been in the works now? Beyond that the majority of what you see in the game is a handful of zone revamps. How long can the game keep that up before running out of areas to cannibilize?
This game is essentially on life support being operated by a skeleton crew. If there is something to point to the oposite of that it would be refreshing news, but things are what they are.
You're right for a 2+ year game, it deserves much more content then whats going to be added in...But consider this, EQ has expansions added in every 6 months...Thats just too much content too fast...People who raid are just going to be the ones that will keep up, catering to the raiding crowd and not the casuals. I would've expected more updates/content, but if they pace themselves to be like EQ, I'd very much would hate that idea. This will give people time to grow into (with whats going to be added in) The economy will then still be steady, and not be extremely expensive the first time someone get their hands on something and is selling it.
Ya lets compare it to other games, How about a game thats 4 years old , has 11.000,000 subs and has been making how much money a month for 4 years.To bad its also a game you can start a character in and be farming the top level dungeons in a matter of weeks. If your going to discount fluff than no game on the market can supply content fast enough for hardcore players.
I would say it was play style more than luck. Not everyone plays games the same way you guys do.
I dont race to max level in any game.It took me 153 days or something to reach 60 in WOW. I like to make money and every game is different. In vanguard crafting was the way to make money when it first released.
I spend most of the first 6 months just crafting , dont think my toon even got to level 12 adventuring But i was on the leading edge of the crafters and making good money My toon was always in one of the top 5 richest characters postions. Untill some farmer figured out how to dope gold and my toon dropped about 50 places over night. That was a bummer lol.
When you start off a response filled with assumptions like this it is hard to take anything you say as serious. It took me 9 months to reach level 60 on my first character in warcraft, because I was enjoying the game. You have no idea how I play games, so don't villify me with your assumptions just so that you can try to look better than everyone else.
The way you describe your avoidance of the games bugs sounds like you just avoided most of the game (not that there is anything wrong with crafting).
I would love to get back into Vanguard. However, at the current back-burner state of the game with no promise of expansion or major content upgrades (at least in a timely fashion) it's hard to justify spending hours into a game that may just dissapear or even worse... left on life support.
Patheon of the Ancients, level cap increases and Alternate Abilities??? ...... Will be the biggest game update to date.
Think about what you just said and then compare it what other mmos have done in their games in the same 2+ year time span. Saying something is the biggest when comparing it to itself hardly dismisses what fatgamer says.
Love this game or hate it, the game does not have enough developer resources. For some that is fine, but for many others that just means the game will not grow at a pace that is worthy of a time investment.
5 more levels just means 5 more experience bars to fill. That is not content.
Alternate advancement is just more experience bars to fill once you are done filling level experience bars. That is not content.
Pantheon of the ancients is content, but how long has that been in the works now?
Beyond that the majority of what you see in the game is a handful of zone revamps. How long can the game keep that up before running out of areas to cannibilize?
This game is essentially on life support being operated by a skeleton crew. If there is something to point to the oposite of that it would be refreshing news, but things are what they are.
You're right for a 2+ year game, it deserves much more content then whats going to be added in...But consider this, EQ has expansions added in every 6 months...Thats just too much content too fast...People who raid are just going to be the ones that will keep up, catering to the raiding crowd and not the casuals.
I would've expected more updates/content, but if they pace themselves to be like EQ, I'd very much would hate that idea. This will give people time to grow into (with whats going to be added in) The economy will then still be steady, and not be extremely expensive the first time someone get their hands on something and is selling it.
Ya lets compare it to other games, How about a game thats 4 years old , has 11.000,000 subs and has been making how much money a month for 4 years.To bad its also a game you can start a character in and be farming the top level dungeons in a matter of weeks.
If your going to discount fluff than no game on the market can supply content fast enough for hardcore players.
You see, if you're one of the guys that wants to be the first everything then you should choose a different game that has more devs to dish out all the content you want. Vanguard doesnt have the people to do it and being that it has a small amount of subs compared to other games, content shouldnt have to be added in too quick.
You see we casual players like to do EVERYTHING, not just focus on the level grind. If raid content is all you want, you might wanna check out EQ 1 with its 10+ or so expansions.
Originally posted by Daffid011 Originally posted by swede2
I would say it was play style more than luck. Not everyone plays games the same way you guys do. I dont race to max level in any game.It took me 153 days or something to reach 60 in WOW. I like to make money and every game is different. In vanguard crafting was the way to make money when it first released. I spend most of the first 6 months just crafting , dont think my toon even got to level 12 adventuring But i was on the leading edge of the crafters and making good money My toon was always in one of the top 5 richest characters postions. Untill some farmer figured out how to dope gold and my toon dropped about 50 places over night. That was a bummer lol.
When you start off a response filled with assumptions like this it is hard to take anything you say as serious. It took me 9 months to reach level 60 on my first character in warcraft, because I was enjoying the game. You have no idea how I play games, so don't villify me with your assumptions just so that you can try to look better than everyone else.
The way you describe your avoidance of the games bugs sounds like you just avoided most of the game (not that there is anything wrong with crafting).
Wait a sec you singled me out here by name first daffid and tryed to imply am lying about vanguard. I tryed to tell you it was play style and you blow a nut and accuse me trying to villify you. I didnt avoid anything , I just played the game the way I wanted. You got a problem with that. Would you like me more if i listed every crafting bug and whined and whined on every forum about it for 2 years. Lets face it where different types of players.
Since you opened up on someone with both barrels about the problems of the game being their fault, I didn't exactly single you out. You sort of stepped into the discussion all by yourself. I just though it was worth pointing out that you are almost unique in your experience with this game running perfectly while almost the entire rest of the gaming world that played vanguard at release suffered massive performance issues and a great deal of bugs.
You feel that I am calling you a liar (which I'm not), but have you ever considered how your words sound when you dsmiss everyone elses experience with the game and blame their computers or heaven forbid their playstyle as the reason for the problems? Even the developers don't share your view of how the game performed.
Since you opened up on someone with both barrels about the problems of the game being their fault, I didn't exactly single you out. You sort of stepped into the discussion all by yourself. I just though it was worth pointing out that you are almost unique in your experience with this game running perfectly while almost the entire rest of the gaming world that played vanguard at release suffered massive performance issues and a great deal of bugs. You feel that I am calling you a liar (which I'm not), but have you ever considered how your words sound when you dsmiss everyone elses experience with the game and blame their computers or heaven forbid their playstyle as the reason for the problems? Even the developers don't share your view of how the game performed.
I don't think any game anywhere run perfectly. At least I can't think of any game that ever ran perfectly for me. Even wow gave me greef for weeks with lag opening bags and crap and zones basically hanging and I'd say wow has probably the best quality of any game on the market.
The issue is are the bugs bad enough that A. they make it so the game is fundamentally broken, ie you can't progress at all, or money dups, you can't group, or other major bugs. or B. The bugs are invasive to your game style so you find them irritating enough that it isn't fun to play.
At release I'd say VG was in the first catagory with huge game breaking bugs. Yeah you could work around them and you could persist but they were really game breaking.
Today it is more subjective and falls into the second catagory. There are still bugs and more then games like eq2 or wow but they are far from the original issues. You will have a quest broken from time to time, or maybe find some world issue where you can fall through the world, or maybe you will find a graphical error. But VG is also probably one of the largest most complex games out. With the small team they have they have done an amazing job.
So anyway like all games it has bugs and for some people that will make the game not fun for them. For other people those bugs won't matter at all. You guys talk in absolutes but it isn't this is highly subjective.
What is a fact is that VG has far fewer bugs then it did at release and it has no what I'd consider game breaking bugs at this time.
So I think what is really being said is that "I like the game and am not bothered by the bugs", Where "You don't like the game because you are being unrealistic and not tollerating the bugs to enjoy the game". I guess one mans trash is another mans treasure. You won't convince each other one way or the other.
Personally I think VG is a very good game today, and as the original poster says definitely worth another look.
Thanks for the reply ethion. I agree with almost everything you say, with the exception of your conclusions about me. =P
Perhaps I am being misleading or you are misunderstanding what I was discussing above. It was not my point that vanguard today is a buggy mess that is was in the past. Sure it has issues, but personally I never had any game stoppers even when I played it near release. In fact my experience was closer to that of swedes than those who had terrible performance experiences. You conclusion of me being unrealistic about the bugs is very far from the truth. The performance and bugs were never a game breaking issue for me. Nor do I not like this game. In fact I think it has a lot of great qualities and has improved very much since release. There are a lot of issues that combined together keep me from playing right now, but for some strange reason I keep hoping things will turn out for the better. I really think vanguard has more potential than just about any game on the market right now.
My point to swede was (and sorry if this wasn't crystal clear). That just because our experiences were not plagued by horror stories that others have experienced, that does not mean that anyone having problems with the game are doing so as a result of their own failures let alone the tone he tends to do it in. People were taking this same type of attitude back during release as if the game engine in immune to having problems.
Compartively speaking, in terms of bugs and performance.
We have current EvE players that say Vanguard and EvE are on par for bugs. They thought it was pretty interesting when they joined Vanguard to see all the hand-wringing about bugs, but having played both their opinion is that the games are similar. As far as performance, they say EvE has better overall performance as it has lower requirements.
We also have a number of folks that play both EQ2 and Vanguard. They say EQ2 clearly has less bugs, but VG performs better on newer machines. This was also my experience with EQ2.
Thanks for the reply ethion. I agree with almost everything you say, with the exception of your conclusions about me. =P
Perhaps I am being misleading or you are misunderstanding what I was discussing above. It was not my point that vanguard today is a buggy mess that is was in the past. Sure it has issues, but personally I never had any game stoppers even when I played it near release. In fact my experience was closer to that of swedes than those who had terrible performance experiences. You conclusion of me being unrealistic about the bugs is very far from the truth. The performance and bugs were never a game breaking issue for me. Nor do I not like this game. In fact I think it has a lot of great qualities and has improved very much since release. There are a lot of issues that combined together keep me from playing right now, but for some strange reason I keep hoping things will turn out for the better. I really think vanguard has more potential than just about any game on the market right now.
My point to swede was (and sorry if this wasn't crystal clear). That just because our experiences were not plagued by horror stories that others have experienced, that does not mean that anyone having problems with the game are doing so as a result of their own failures let alone the tone he tends to do it in. People were taking this same type of attitude back during release as if the game engine in immune to having problems.
I wasn't poking at you directly but rather the general banter you typically see in the thread like this where there are big arguments about how buggy something is. Some people see a graphic glitch and it is a game breaker others see it and hardly notice it. So I say it isn't a big deal you say it is, doesn't one of us is right and the other is wrong. It just means that I'm more tolerant of issues and you are less. In the same tone it isn't anyones failures but rather their tastes. We all play to have fun and all have to make judgements on the quality before deciding the game isn't any good.
That said VG isn't horribly broken at this time but that is still a perception from the aweful launch. I think it is good to encourage people to give it a try since the game has improved a lot and has a lot of great features. Many people hearing the horror of it's release would no doubt want to avoid it, but the reality is the game is very playable now. Of course all MMOs have bugs and issues from time to time. This is where giving it a try with the trial is a good idea. A lot of people would find that the game play in vg today is quite enjoyable.
Compartively speaking, in terms of bugs and performance. We have current EvE players that say Vanguard and EvE are on par for bugs. They thought it was pretty interesting when they joined Vanguard to see all the hand-wringing about bugs, but having played both their opinion is that the games are similar. As far as performance, they say EvE has better overall performance as it has lower requirements. We also have a number of folks that play both EQ2 and Vanguard. They say EQ2 clearly has less bugs, but VG performs better on newer machines. This was also my experience with EQ2.
I'd say eq2 is very polished and bug free. Curiously around 9 months ago when I started playing eq2 after play vg eq2 performance for me was a significant downgrade. On extreme settings eq2 in certain areas was virtually unplayable. Even worse when I put it on extreme it crashed a lot. Today however they have fixed those issues in eq2 and it is very stable. I might get a crash once every couple weeks or maybe 60-80 hours of play time.
Anyway today I can play eq2 on extreme settings and I can also play vg on similar settings. Performance is still a bit better in VG but VG still gives me some hitching in a new area initially where eq2 never hitches. But general fps for both games on extreme settings vg will perform best.
I played eve 1-2 years ago. I don't recall any bugs.
Originally posted by Daffid011 Since you opened up on someone with both barrels about the problems of the game being their fault, I didn't exactly single you out. You sort of stepped into the discussion all by yourself. I just though it was worth pointing out that you are almost unique in your experience with this game running perfectly while almost the entire rest of the gaming world that played vanguard at release suffered massive performance issues and a great deal of bugs. You feel that I am calling you a liar (which I'm not), but have you ever considered how your words sound when you dsmiss everyone elses experience with the game and blame their computers or heaven forbid their playstyle as the reason for the problems? Even the developers don't share your view of how the game performed.
The game is 2 years old he said he couldnt run it on his low to mid range computer, well my computer today is a mid range computer. Ya it wasnt when I bought it but it sure is now. Alls am saying is theres alot of gamers out there that dont know the limits of the machines they play on. I had to laugh when vanguard first released and on here its post after post of people listing there computer. Found it kinda funny how these people with machines ripped right out of the current months PCgamer mags dream machine section said the game was unplayable. Ya it was pretty funny considering I was getting better preformance than they said on a computer I was getting rid of. Got my new computer on about day 5 of release its been max settings ever sence no problems but than again am not the type of player that cries because I had a 3 second pause well crossing a chunk line. Its like someone said its a tolarance issue and I learned along time ago to ignore minor little bugs. otherwise there not one game on the market be it mmo or single player that I could enjoy and I would be in the same boat as the rest of the whining gamers out there.
Since you opened up on someone with both barrels about the problems of the game being their fault, I didn't exactly single you out. You sort of stepped into the discussion all by yourself. I just though it was worth pointing out that you are almost unique in your experience with this game running perfectly while almost the entire rest of the gaming world that played vanguard at release suffered massive performance issues and a great deal of bugs.
You feel that I am calling you a liar (which I'm not), but have you ever considered how your words sound when you dsmiss everyone elses experience with the game and blame their computers or heaven forbid their playstyle as the reason for the problems? Even the developers don't share your view of how the game performed.
The game is 2 years old he said he couldnt run it on his low to mid range computer, well my computer today is a mid range computer. Ya it wasnt when I bought it but it sure is now.
Alls am saying is theres alot of gamers out there that dont know the limits of the machines they play on.
I had to laugh when vanguard first released and on here its post after post of people listing there computer. Found it kinda funny how these people with machines ripped right out of the current months PCgamer mags dream machine section said the game was unplayable. Ya it was pretty funny considering I was getting better preformance than they said on a computer I was getting rid of.
Got my new computer on about day 5 of release its been max settings ever sence no problems but than again am not the type of player that cries because I had a 3 second pause well crossing a chunk line.
Its like someone said its a tolarance issue and I learned along time ago to ignore minor little bugs. otherwise there not one game on the market be it mmo or single player that I could enjoy and I would be in the same boat as the rest of the whining gamers out there.
well me like others dont like to have 3 second pauses every time you make a sharp turn or whatever it maybe. You compare MMO's to the previous one you played. So if you get better performance from another mmo the next mmo better have the same performance and be better. In Vanguards Case, it wasn't no only did it have performace flaws it had and still has broken skills, bugs bugs bugs. So personally now i think even with the bugs the game is playable but without a aggressive advertising campaign this game will get no play from the people who would love the game.
Originally posted by Goldknyght Originally posted by swede2
Originally posted by Daffid011 Since you opened up on someone with both barrels about the problems of the game being their fault, I didn't exactly single you out. You sort of stepped into the discussion all by yourself. I just though it was worth pointing out that you are almost unique in your experience with this game running perfectly while almost the entire rest of the gaming world that played vanguard at release suffered massive performance issues and a great deal of bugs. You feel that I am calling you a liar (which I'm not), but have you ever considered how your words sound when you dsmiss everyone elses experience with the game and blame their computers or heaven forbid their playstyle as the reason for the problems? Even the developers don't share your view of how the game performed.
The game is 2 years old he said he couldnt run it on his low to mid range computer, well my computer today is a mid range computer. Ya it wasnt when I bought it but it sure is now. Alls am saying is theres alot of gamers out there that dont know the limits of the machines they play on. I had to laugh when vanguard first released and on here its post after post of people listing there computer. Found it kinda funny how these people with machines ripped right out of the current months PCgamer mags dream machine section said the game was unplayable. Ya it was pretty funny considering I was getting better preformance than they said on a computer I was getting rid of. Got my new computer on about day 5 of release its been max settings ever sence no problems but than again am not the type of player that cries because I had a 3 second pause well crossing a chunk line. Its like someone said its a tolarance issue and I learned along time ago to ignore minor little bugs. otherwise there not one game on the market be it mmo or single player that I could enjoy and I would be in the same boat as the rest of the whining gamers out there. well me like others dont like to have 3 second pauses every time you make a sharp turn or whatever it maybe. You compare MMO's to the previous one you played. So if you get better performance from another mmo the next mmo better have the same performance and be better. In Vanguards Case, it wasn't no only did it have performace flaws it had and still has broken skills, bugs bugs bugs. So personally now i think even with the bugs the game is playable but without a aggressive advertising campaign this game will get no play from the people who would love the game. Well my last game before vanguard was WOW and i dont care what anyone says in the first year and a half of wow there was numerous little annoying things and a few majors that affected my toon for 4 solid months before they got fixed. Getting D/C and not been able to log back on for days, server lag so bad you couldnt even use the vendors proberly was a weekly thing , actually sometimes it lasted weeks is more like it.Been stuck in the loot lag postion for 60% of your play time and that was over a year after wow released.I could go on for several more paragraphs but you get the idea am sure. Sorry but i dont believe that new releases should be perfect and bug free with awesome performance and every little thing they promised in and working. Ive been gaming far to long to exspect that. I play games I like and I support them with my sub and hopfully the game gets better with time.
Bullshit anyone who says that didnt have things like that happening is full of it and lives in a fantasy world. Ya wows minor crap wasnt like vanguards forsure , but i dont really care what it was. The fact is it was happening on my server and it affected everyone. Yes my server was one of the original servers and was in fact one of the last ones that got the new server's that wow finally started using. And am telling you it was bad till they finally switched servers We put up with it for along time but blizzard did finally switch us and it wasnt so bad. As far as the major bugs they where introduced in a patch and it took blizzard quite awhile to fix them and they where game breaking for me as i was doing the grand marshal grind as an alliance on a server where we outnumbered horde by 5 to 1. So my ques where long. if you where'nt running bg's it wouldnt have affected you atall as it was a fear bug that made you fall through the world but was only happening in AB. And I can tell you strait up I fell through the world more in one day in WOW than i did in vanguard in 2 years. Now times that by the 60 or so days it took blizzard to finally fix that. The second major bug only affected warriors and rogues. Your abilitys would lock up and the only way to get them working again was to de-target and re-target who ever you where fighting losing all built up combo points. Ok major fing bug for a rouge trying to grind grand marshal. Not that it matter as you where dead faster than you could relize your abilities where locked up most times lol. This was happening every where in the game. But fact is it took blizzard 2 months to fix that too.
Ive got a WoW account running right now for my son and i have played around on it trying out death knight, farming for my sons toons just fooling around I fired it up many times sence WoTK and anyone who says they dont lag or have there moments while playing is simple lying through there teeth. The game runs about the same as any other game on max settings now.
If they got around to transferring my character to the Serradon server where there is still a good amount of people playing, I'd probably be subscribed right now.
I'm not disagreeing that the wow servers were overloaded at release and it impacted performance and playability a lot. Nor that there were some bugs, some of which lasted longer than they should have, some introduced in patches, etc.
Beyond that, you seem to be the exception to the norm and not the common standard that you seem to think you are. You talk about these problems for a year and a half in wow as if they were common place, but talk about vanguard as if it ran smoothly and anyone that had problems with it did so because of their computer or a lack of tolerance. *shrug*
Almost everyone has a different view of both games with reviews, personal experiences and end results than you have. Even the developers are more in line with nearly everyone else on how things were. Why you think you are the norm is beyond me, but you are welcome to your opnions.
Even though the game runs better, I bet I could log into VG right now and experience some of the same issues that people describe. Some of which range all the way back to release.
Again, I am not saying the game is unplayable, but I won't say that there are not flaws in the game engine either.
I used to play Vanguard since closed beta and the first 3 months after launch. If what you are saying is true, I might go back to it. There is no good MMO on the market right now.
I used to play Vanguard since closed beta and the first 3 months after launch. If what you are saying is true, I might go back to it. There is no good MMO on the market right now.
You really owe it to yourself to give it another try seeing how you were there when all the bad things were happening. There is a free trial so it won't cost you anything. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
I've played Vanguard since release.. over two years now. As such, it's a little difficult to appreciate the magnitude of improvement in gameplay and bug-fixes since I've seen every weekly or bi-weekly patch. All the improvements have been incremental over time.
The folks that are returning now, that haven't played in a year or since release sense the true significance of the improvements that have been made. Described as truly night and day difference. We were just chatting in a raid the other night about Zaraax.. saying, "remember when the Zaraax fight was almost impossible due to lag and crashing?" No one has crashed on that fight for months and the performance has improved so much that there is no noticeable lag.
All these improvements sneak up on someone that has played since release until you take a step back and notice just how polished the game is becoming. I think most folks that have played VG referred to it as a diamond in the rough, it's not so rough anymore.
Back on the wow game reliability. I played wow two times probably about 7-8 months in total. I'd have to say the by and large I experience no problems with wow. There might have been little minor issues but nothing memorable.
There was one time when the server lag was super bad for about 2 weeks in varying degrees. This was where you might use an ability and nothing would happen or even more irritating where you go to open a loot and it just hangs for 5 minutes. These were major issues when they happened.
But in general I would never argue that VG's quality in terms of bugs was even today comparable to wow. Wow is a rather simple game that has been polished to a high degree. There is a reason why wow is 11M players....
Back on the wow game reliability. I played wow two times probably about 7-8 months in total. I'd have to say the by and large I experience no problems with wow. There might have been little minor issues but nothing memorable. There was one time when the server lag was super bad for about 2 weeks in varying degrees. This was where you might use an ability and nothing would happen or even more irritating where you go to open a loot and it just hangs for 5 minutes. These were major issues when they happened. But in general I would never argue that VG's quality in terms of bugs was even today comparable to wow. Wow is a rather simple game that has been polished to a high degree. There is a reason why wow is 11M players....
I'm glad if you joined WoW after they had a few million subscribers and missed "the fun" days but they were there and some were as bad, and worse, than I've found in any other game (such as EQ where you could be killed running and your corpse would slide UNDER a mountain where /corpse couldn't bring it back to you and the like).
I played M59 then EQ then WoW and joined WoW early as in day 1 the server went up. I remember the problems... boy, do I remember them.
Mining nodes where you'd mine them and get stuck becase it was a 'bugged' mine. The work-around? Exit the game and come back otherwise you were stuck at that node, no way to defend yourself nor anything else, until you closed the game. Take a "taxi" flight and land -- oops... you're there but you're stuck on the taxi but now you can move it around a bit. Problem: Can't defend yourself, can't do diddely...
Boats between the elven starting area and main-land. The boat would zone but you wouldn't so you'd have to swim back. Problem: "Endurance" in deep water would expire before you could get close enough to shore so you'd die trying to cross via boat. They put special NPC's up to bypass the boats for a while and that problem happened for the first YEAR the game was out, off and on.
I could go on but I remember so many bugs that I did a post early on "I'll give them 6 months to address some of these big ones or I'll quit and find something else to do." -- they managed to fix most of the really attrocious ones right at the 6 month line but others hung on for a good year.
Each MMO has a slew of such glitches that can crop up and WoW was far from perfect for a very, very long time.
I'm looking at trying out Vanguard right now. I downloaded the trial and gave that a shot. Can't use chat channels from a trial so I bought a subscription. The most annoying thing to me right now is the "88%" downloading of the update from trail to full version. It appears only the starting area is dowloaded for the trail so... When it's done, I'll go play a bit and see how the real game works.
I have a lifetime subscription to Lord of the Rings On-line but there's no end-game content there. ($200... pft... that's about 18 months play time and I put that much time into that game before 'running out of content'. It's an ULTRA casual friendly game and makes WoW look like a poor boys attempt at graphics plus a "tough" game to play...)
This game... from what I've seen the eye-candy is there. The community doesn't l33t speak nor have I seen the ur l8 -- for You are Late type text talk. nor have I seen a lot of punk attitudes being expressed. That's promissing. I'll see if it's got the game content but the rest is looking decent.
The chatter about micro-transactions type stuff has me muttering. I left EQ due to what SoE did to it. I'd played that game, off and on, for 5 years but they kept tweaking things around and trashing service in the game.
I'm looking at Vanguard because of the recent review to the game done here -- best customer service? From an SoE game?!?!? Hmmm... maybe something has changed so... I'll give it a shot. If it doesn't pan out, no big. If it does, good deal. I tend to be a fairly loyal customer and don't mind paying for my fun. (back when a new "premium" server was put up in EQ, I went there at $40 a month just to see the "unique content" and "support" gutted to nothingness and it turn into a "transfer" station. That infuriated me big time...)
Comments
The point is to go somewhere else if one dungeon is too crowded, its so that you can acutally see different "cool" places other than just being stuck with 1 dungeon for 10 or so levels. Why go to dungeon with tons of people camping all the spots, when you can have a whole dungeon with 3 people or a full group and get all the rewards for yourselves?
People loved heading over to Trengal keep at low to high 20's...I skipped it all together and grinded at Wardship of the sleeping moon, started my faction early got all my armor pieces ready for turn ins. By the time I reach level 32 I had my full set, while people in their low to late 30's were still doing faction grinding and armor farming.
Well I am sorry, because you made some piss poor choices when you upgraded than. I bought my computer the same week vanguard launched. Its played vanguard every setting maxed at 1920x1200 sence day 1, not only that it plays any game out right now every setting maxed.
You could build my computer now for about $1500 easy. Anyway shop smart bro.
swede2 I am curios could you please tell me the specs of your PC when you bought Vanguard?
My PC specs When I got Vanguard were-
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 / 2.4 GHz processor
2 gigs of Ram
GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB
Now I know by today's standards that not to good, but back when Vanguard was released it was a pretty good machine. Yet in dungeons like Achlatan Spider Caves I was dropping down to 1-10 FPS when it got busy.
That machine configuration shouldn't be running at 1-10 fps... Maybe you should run a clean boot using msconfig to turn off all startup programs to see if something is sucking your cpu/memory.
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Ethion
If your going to discount fluff than no game on the market can supply content fast enough for hardcore players.
This game is most definently not the worst piece of crap but it is in a close second.
I would say it was play style more than luck. Not everyone plays games the same way you guys do.
I dont race to max level in any game.It took me 153 days or something to reach 60 in WOW. I like to make money and every game is different. In vanguard crafting was the way to make money when it first released.
I spend most of the first 6 months just crafting , dont think my toon even got to level 12 adventuring But i was on the leading edge of the crafters and making good money My toon was always in one of the top 5 richest characters postions. Untill some farmer figured out how to dope gold and my toon dropped about 50 places over night. That was a bummer lol.
When you start off a response filled with assumptions like this it is hard to take anything you say as serious. It took me 9 months to reach level 60 on my first character in warcraft, because I was enjoying the game. You have no idea how I play games, so don't villify me with your assumptions just so that you can try to look better than everyone else.
The way you describe your avoidance of the games bugs sounds like you just avoided most of the game (not that there is anything wrong with crafting).
Patheon of the Ancients, level cap increases and Alternate Abilities??? ...... Will be the biggest game update to date.
Think about what you just said and then compare it what other mmos have done in their games in the same 2+ year time span. Saying something is the biggest when comparing it to itself hardly dismisses what fatgamer says.
Love this game or hate it, the game does not have enough developer resources. For some that is fine, but for many others that just means the game will not grow at a pace that is worthy of a time investment.
5 more levels just means 5 more experience bars to fill. That is not content.
Alternate advancement is just more experience bars to fill once you are done filling level experience bars. That is not content.
Pantheon of the ancients is content, but how long has that been in the works now?
Beyond that the majority of what you see in the game is a handful of zone revamps. How long can the game keep that up before running out of areas to cannibilize?
This game is essentially on life support being operated by a skeleton crew. If there is something to point to the oposite of that it would be refreshing news, but things are what they are.
You're right for a 2+ year game, it deserves much more content then whats going to be added in...But consider this, EQ has expansions added in every 6 months...Thats just too much content too fast...People who raid are just going to be the ones that will keep up, catering to the raiding crowd and not the casuals.
I would've expected more updates/content, but if they pace themselves to be like EQ, I'd very much would hate that idea. This will give people time to grow into (with whats going to be added in) The economy will then still be steady, and not be extremely expensive the first time someone get their hands on something and is selling it.
Ya lets compare it to other games, How about a game thats 4 years old , has 11.000,000 subs and has been making how much money a month for 4 years.To bad its also a game you can start a character in and be farming the top level dungeons in a matter of weeks.
If your going to discount fluff than no game on the market can supply content fast enough for hardcore players.
You see, if you're one of the guys that wants to be the first everything then you should choose a different game that has more devs to dish out all the content you want. Vanguard doesnt have the people to do it and being that it has a small amount of subs compared to other games, content shouldnt have to be added in too quick.
You see we casual players like to do EVERYTHING, not just focus on the level grind. If raid content is all you want, you might wanna check out EQ 1 with its 10+ or so expansions.
I would say it was play style more than luck. Not everyone plays games the same way you guys do.
I dont race to max level in any game.It took me 153 days or something to reach 60 in WOW. I like to make money and every game is different. In vanguard crafting was the way to make money when it first released.
I spend most of the first 6 months just crafting , dont think my toon even got to level 12 adventuring But i was on the leading edge of the crafters and making good money My toon was always in one of the top 5 richest characters postions. Untill some farmer figured out how to dope gold and my toon dropped about 50 places over night. That was a bummer lol.
When you start off a response filled with assumptions like this it is hard to take anything you say as serious. It took me 9 months to reach level 60 on my first character in warcraft, because I was enjoying the game. You have no idea how I play games, so don't villify me with your assumptions just so that you can try to look better than everyone else.
The way you describe your avoidance of the games bugs sounds like you just avoided most of the game (not that there is anything wrong with crafting).
Wait a sec you singled me out here by name first daffid and tryed to imply am lying about vanguard. I tryed to tell you it was play style and you blow a nut and accuse me trying to villify you.
I didnt avoid anything , I just played the game the way I wanted. You got a problem with that. Would you like me more if i listed every crafting bug and whined and whined on every forum about it for 2 years.
Lets face it where different types of players.
Since you opened up on someone with both barrels about the problems of the game being their fault, I didn't exactly single you out. You sort of stepped into the discussion all by yourself. I just though it was worth pointing out that you are almost unique in your experience with this game running perfectly while almost the entire rest of the gaming world that played vanguard at release suffered massive performance issues and a great deal of bugs.
You feel that I am calling you a liar (which I'm not), but have you ever considered how your words sound when you dsmiss everyone elses experience with the game and blame their computers or heaven forbid their playstyle as the reason for the problems? Even the developers don't share your view of how the game performed.
I don't think any game anywhere run perfectly. At least I can't think of any game that ever ran perfectly for me. Even wow gave me greef for weeks with lag opening bags and crap and zones basically hanging and I'd say wow has probably the best quality of any game on the market.
The issue is are the bugs bad enough that A. they make it so the game is fundamentally broken, ie you can't progress at all, or money dups, you can't group, or other major bugs. or B. The bugs are invasive to your game style so you find them irritating enough that it isn't fun to play.
At release I'd say VG was in the first catagory with huge game breaking bugs. Yeah you could work around them and you could persist but they were really game breaking.
Today it is more subjective and falls into the second catagory. There are still bugs and more then games like eq2 or wow but they are far from the original issues. You will have a quest broken from time to time, or maybe find some world issue where you can fall through the world, or maybe you will find a graphical error. But VG is also probably one of the largest most complex games out. With the small team they have they have done an amazing job.
So anyway like all games it has bugs and for some people that will make the game not fun for them. For other people those bugs won't matter at all. You guys talk in absolutes but it isn't this is highly subjective.
What is a fact is that VG has far fewer bugs then it did at release and it has no what I'd consider game breaking bugs at this time.
So I think what is really being said is that "I like the game and am not bothered by the bugs", Where "You don't like the game because you are being unrealistic and not tollerating the bugs to enjoy the game". I guess one mans trash is another mans treasure. You won't convince each other one way or the other.
Personally I think VG is a very good game today, and as the original poster says definitely worth another look.
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Ethion
Thanks for the reply ethion. I agree with almost everything you say, with the exception of your conclusions about me. =P
Perhaps I am being misleading or you are misunderstanding what I was discussing above. It was not my point that vanguard today is a buggy mess that is was in the past. Sure it has issues, but personally I never had any game stoppers even when I played it near release. In fact my experience was closer to that of swedes than those who had terrible performance experiences. You conclusion of me being unrealistic about the bugs is very far from the truth. The performance and bugs were never a game breaking issue for me. Nor do I not like this game. In fact I think it has a lot of great qualities and has improved very much since release. There are a lot of issues that combined together keep me from playing right now, but for some strange reason I keep hoping things will turn out for the better. I really think vanguard has more potential than just about any game on the market right now.
My point to swede was (and sorry if this wasn't crystal clear). That just because our experiences were not plagued by horror stories that others have experienced, that does not mean that anyone having problems with the game are doing so as a result of their own failures let alone the tone he tends to do it in. People were taking this same type of attitude back during release as if the game engine in immune to having problems.
Compartively speaking, in terms of bugs and performance.
We have current EvE players that say Vanguard and EvE are on par for bugs. They thought it was pretty interesting when they joined Vanguard to see all the hand-wringing about bugs, but having played both their opinion is that the games are similar. As far as performance, they say EvE has better overall performance as it has lower requirements.
We also have a number of folks that play both EQ2 and Vanguard. They say EQ2 clearly has less bugs, but VG performs better on newer machines. This was also my experience with EQ2.
I wasn't poking at you directly but rather the general banter you typically see in the thread like this where there are big arguments about how buggy something is. Some people see a graphic glitch and it is a game breaker others see it and hardly notice it. So I say it isn't a big deal you say it is, doesn't one of us is right and the other is wrong. It just means that I'm more tolerant of issues and you are less. In the same tone it isn't anyones failures but rather their tastes. We all play to have fun and all have to make judgements on the quality before deciding the game isn't any good.
That said VG isn't horribly broken at this time but that is still a perception from the aweful launch. I think it is good to encourage people to give it a try since the game has improved a lot and has a lot of great features. Many people hearing the horror of it's release would no doubt want to avoid it, but the reality is the game is very playable now. Of course all MMOs have bugs and issues from time to time. This is where giving it a try with the trial is a good idea. A lot of people would find that the game play in vg today is quite enjoyable.
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Ethion
I'd say eq2 is very polished and bug free. Curiously around 9 months ago when I started playing eq2 after play vg eq2 performance for me was a significant downgrade. On extreme settings eq2 in certain areas was virtually unplayable. Even worse when I put it on extreme it crashed a lot. Today however they have fixed those issues in eq2 and it is very stable. I might get a crash once every couple weeks or maybe 60-80 hours of play time.
Anyway today I can play eq2 on extreme settings and I can also play vg on similar settings. Performance is still a bit better in VG but VG still gives me some hitching in a new area initially where eq2 never hitches. But general fps for both games on extreme settings vg will perform best.
I played eve 1-2 years ago. I don't recall any bugs.
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Ethion
The game is 2 years old he said he couldnt run it on his low to mid range computer, well my computer today is a mid range computer. Ya it wasnt when I bought it but it sure is now.
Alls am saying is theres alot of gamers out there that dont know the limits of the machines they play on.
I had to laugh when vanguard first released and on here its post after post of people listing there computer. Found it kinda funny how these people with machines ripped right out of the current months PCgamer mags dream machine section said the game was unplayable. Ya it was pretty funny considering I was getting better preformance than they said on a computer I was getting rid of.
Got my new computer on about day 5 of release its been max settings ever sence no problems but than again am not the type of player that cries because I had a 3 second pause well crossing a chunk line.
Its like someone said its a tolarance issue and I learned along time ago to ignore minor little bugs. otherwise there not one game on the market be it mmo or single player that I could enjoy and I would be in the same boat as the rest of the whining gamers out there.
The game is 2 years old he said he couldnt run it on his low to mid range computer, well my computer today is a mid range computer. Ya it wasnt when I bought it but it sure is now.
Alls am saying is theres alot of gamers out there that dont know the limits of the machines they play on.
I had to laugh when vanguard first released and on here its post after post of people listing there computer. Found it kinda funny how these people with machines ripped right out of the current months PCgamer mags dream machine section said the game was unplayable. Ya it was pretty funny considering I was getting better preformance than they said on a computer I was getting rid of.
Got my new computer on about day 5 of release its been max settings ever sence no problems but than again am not the type of player that cries because I had a 3 second pause well crossing a chunk line.
Its like someone said its a tolarance issue and I learned along time ago to ignore minor little bugs. otherwise there not one game on the market be it mmo or single player that I could enjoy and I would be in the same boat as the rest of the whining gamers out there.
well me like others dont like to have 3 second pauses every time you make a sharp turn or whatever it maybe. You compare MMO's to the previous one you played. So if you get better performance from another mmo the next mmo better have the same performance and be better. In Vanguards Case, it wasn't no only did it have performace flaws it had and still has broken skills, bugs bugs bugs. So personally now i think even with the bugs the game is playable but without a aggressive advertising campaign this game will get no play from the people who would love the game.
The game is 2 years old he said he couldnt run it on his low to mid range computer, well my computer today is a mid range computer. Ya it wasnt when I bought it but it sure is now.
Alls am saying is theres alot of gamers out there that dont know the limits of the machines they play on.
I had to laugh when vanguard first released and on here its post after post of people listing there computer. Found it kinda funny how these people with machines ripped right out of the current months PCgamer mags dream machine section said the game was unplayable. Ya it was pretty funny considering I was getting better preformance than they said on a computer I was getting rid of.
Got my new computer on about day 5 of release its been max settings ever sence no problems but than again am not the type of player that cries because I had a 3 second pause well crossing a chunk line.
Its like someone said its a tolarance issue and I learned along time ago to ignore minor little bugs. otherwise there not one game on the market be it mmo or single player that I could enjoy and I would be in the same boat as the rest of the whining gamers out there.
well me like others dont like to have 3 second pauses every time you make a sharp turn or whatever it maybe. You compare MMO's to the previous one you played. So if you get better performance from another mmo the next mmo better have the same performance and be better. In Vanguards Case, it wasn't no only did it have performace flaws it had and still has broken skills, bugs bugs bugs. So personally now i think even with the bugs the game is playable but without a aggressive advertising campaign this game will get no play from the people who would love the game.
Well my last game before vanguard was WOW and i dont care what anyone says in the first year and a half of wow there was numerous little annoying things and a few majors that affected my toon for 4 solid months before they got fixed. Getting D/C and not been able to log back on for days, server lag so bad you couldnt even use the vendors proberly was a weekly thing , actually sometimes it lasted weeks is more like it.Been stuck in the loot lag postion for 60% of your play time and that was over a year after wow released.I could go on for several more paragraphs but you get the idea am sure.
Sorry but i dont believe that new releases should be perfect and bug free with awesome performance and every little thing they promised in and working. Ive been gaming far to long to exspect that.
I play games I like and I support them with my sub and hopfully the game gets better with time.
It is strange how your experiences seem to be a complete 180 degree difference than what almost everyone else experiences.
Maybe your computer was the reason you had so many problems in warcraft.
Bullshit anyone who says that didnt have things like that happening is full of it and lives in a fantasy world.
Ya wows minor crap wasnt like vanguards forsure , but i dont really care what it was. The fact is it was happening on my server and it affected everyone. Yes my server was one of the original servers and was in fact one of the last ones that got the new server's that wow finally started using. And am telling you it was bad till they finally switched servers We put up with it for along time but blizzard did finally switch us and it wasnt so bad.
As far as the major bugs they where introduced in a patch and it took blizzard quite awhile to fix them and they where game breaking for me as i was doing the grand marshal grind as an alliance on a server where we outnumbered horde by 5 to 1. So my ques where long. if you where'nt running bg's it wouldnt have affected you atall as it was a fear bug that made you fall through the world but was only happening in AB. And I can tell you strait up I fell through the world more in one day in WOW than i did in vanguard in 2 years. Now times that by the 60 or so days it took blizzard to finally fix that.
The second major bug only affected warriors and rogues. Your abilitys would lock up and the only way to get them working again was to de-target and re-target who ever you where fighting losing all built up combo points. Ok major fing bug for a rouge trying to grind grand marshal. Not that it matter as you where dead faster than you could relize your abilities where locked up most times lol. This was happening every where in the game. But fact is it took blizzard 2 months to fix that too.
Ive got a WoW account running right now for my son and i have played around on it trying out death knight, farming for my sons toons just fooling around I fired it up many times sence WoTK and anyone who says they dont lag or have there moments while playing is simple lying through there teeth. The game runs about the same as any other game on max settings now.
If they got around to transferring my character to the Serradon server where there is still a good amount of people playing, I'd probably be subscribed right now.
I'm not disagreeing that the wow servers were overloaded at release and it impacted performance and playability a lot. Nor that there were some bugs, some of which lasted longer than they should have, some introduced in patches, etc.
Beyond that, you seem to be the exception to the norm and not the common standard that you seem to think you are. You talk about these problems for a year and a half in wow as if they were common place, but talk about vanguard as if it ran smoothly and anyone that had problems with it did so because of their computer or a lack of tolerance. *shrug*
Almost everyone has a different view of both games with reviews, personal experiences and end results than you have. Even the developers are more in line with nearly everyone else on how things were. Why you think you are the norm is beyond me, but you are welcome to your opnions.
Even though the game runs better, I bet I could log into VG right now and experience some of the same issues that people describe. Some of which range all the way back to release.
Again, I am not saying the game is unplayable, but I won't say that there are not flaws in the game engine either.
I used to play Vanguard since closed beta and the first 3 months after launch. If what you are saying is true, I might go back to it. There is no good MMO on the market right now.
You really owe it to yourself to give it another try seeing how you were there when all the bad things were happening. There is a free trial so it won't cost you anything. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
I've played Vanguard since release.. over two years now. As such, it's a little difficult to appreciate the magnitude of improvement in gameplay and bug-fixes since I've seen every weekly or bi-weekly patch. All the improvements have been incremental over time.
The folks that are returning now, that haven't played in a year or since release sense the true significance of the improvements that have been made. Described as truly night and day difference. We were just chatting in a raid the other night about Zaraax.. saying, "remember when the Zaraax fight was almost impossible due to lag and crashing?" No one has crashed on that fight for months and the performance has improved so much that there is no noticeable lag.
All these improvements sneak up on someone that has played since release until you take a step back and notice just how polished the game is becoming. I think most folks that have played VG referred to it as a diamond in the rough, it's not so rough anymore.
Back on the wow game reliability. I played wow two times probably about 7-8 months in total. I'd have to say the by and large I experience no problems with wow. There might have been little minor issues but nothing memorable.
There was one time when the server lag was super bad for about 2 weeks in varying degrees. This was where you might use an ability and nothing would happen or even more irritating where you go to open a loot and it just hangs for 5 minutes. These were major issues when they happened.
But in general I would never argue that VG's quality in terms of bugs was even today comparable to wow. Wow is a rather simple game that has been polished to a high degree. There is a reason why wow is 11M players....
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Ethion
I'm glad if you joined WoW after they had a few million subscribers and missed "the fun" days but they were there and some were as bad, and worse, than I've found in any other game (such as EQ where you could be killed running and your corpse would slide UNDER a mountain where /corpse couldn't bring it back to you and the like).
I played M59 then EQ then WoW and joined WoW early as in day 1 the server went up. I remember the problems... boy, do I remember them.
Mining nodes where you'd mine them and get stuck becase it was a 'bugged' mine. The work-around? Exit the game and come back otherwise you were stuck at that node, no way to defend yourself nor anything else, until you closed the game. Take a "taxi" flight and land -- oops... you're there but you're stuck on the taxi but now you can move it around a bit. Problem: Can't defend yourself, can't do diddely...
Boats between the elven starting area and main-land. The boat would zone but you wouldn't so you'd have to swim back. Problem: "Endurance" in deep water would expire before you could get close enough to shore so you'd die trying to cross via boat. They put special NPC's up to bypass the boats for a while and that problem happened for the first YEAR the game was out, off and on.
I could go on but I remember so many bugs that I did a post early on "I'll give them 6 months to address some of these big ones or I'll quit and find something else to do." -- they managed to fix most of the really attrocious ones right at the 6 month line but others hung on for a good year.
Each MMO has a slew of such glitches that can crop up and WoW was far from perfect for a very, very long time.
I'm looking at trying out Vanguard right now. I downloaded the trial and gave that a shot. Can't use chat channels from a trial so I bought a subscription. The most annoying thing to me right now is the "88%" downloading of the update from trail to full version. It appears only the starting area is dowloaded for the trail so... When it's done, I'll go play a bit and see how the real game works.
I have a lifetime subscription to Lord of the Rings On-line but there's no end-game content there. ($200... pft... that's about 18 months play time and I put that much time into that game before 'running out of content'. It's an ULTRA casual friendly game and makes WoW look like a poor boys attempt at graphics plus a "tough" game to play...)
This game... from what I've seen the eye-candy is there. The community doesn't l33t speak nor have I seen the ur l8 -- for You are Late type text talk. nor have I seen a lot of punk attitudes being expressed. That's promissing. I'll see if it's got the game content but the rest is looking decent.
The chatter about micro-transactions type stuff has me muttering. I left EQ due to what SoE did to it. I'd played that game, off and on, for 5 years but they kept tweaking things around and trashing service in the game.
I'm looking at Vanguard because of the recent review to the game done here -- best customer service? From an SoE game?!?!? Hmmm... maybe something has changed so... I'll give it a shot. If it doesn't pan out, no big. If it does, good deal. I tend to be a fairly loyal customer and don't mind paying for my fun. (back when a new "premium" server was put up in EQ, I went there at $40 a month just to see the "unique content" and "support" gutted to nothingness and it turn into a "transfer" station. That infuriated me big time...)