I know you would disagree Zorndorf but as I see it you miss the entire point of the thread: That content is more streamlined (no surprises), less of sand-box type (WoW has been very low on sand-box type content since its release - for good reasons - but to make everything linear is at least in my opinion bad), classes are more bland and content is more trivial. In addition content release is slowing down significantly.
You talk mostly about technicalities which does not really make a game as I see it. And I am not just nostalgic - WoW is moving towards the FPS genre very fast and I think that is sad.
Content release schedule for WoW:
1st year: WoW Box (with all that came with it), Maraudon, Dire Maul, Azuregos, Kazzak, Honor system plus AB, WG and AV, BWL and Zul'Gurub
2nd year: Silithus (complete remake), AQ20, AQ40 and Naxxramas
3rd year: TBC (with all that came with it), BT, Mt Hyjal, Zul'Aman
4th year: Sunwell, WotLK (only 2 new raid bosses) - > What happened here?
WoW atm is better game than classic WoW its just that ppl are missing their noob day when u didint know anything about end game and was just lvling because it was the only thing u could do and everyone was doing it .
Come on blizz release ur next mmo already so we can have another GREAT game to be newb in again
Zorndorf got to admire the fact that you LOVE WoW. Lol well good for you. For you nothing anyone here can POST anything at all to make you feel anything different. To this I APPLAUD you.
I just hope you feel this way when ST:TOR comes out and STEALS WoW players by the THOUSANDS.
That's the difference with someone who doesn't care about the game and just makes VERY general statements rounding down wherever it can be done. Downplaying things is a sport.. Your old posts of "Wow will be dead soon" are a testomony about that.
WotLK at launch (3.0) has ... 4 Raids btw not 2 "raid bosses". The total number of new raid bosses is 20. Nice to see semantics play such an important aspect. Just ignoring the dozens of new dungeons and heroics in WotLK is also a nice slip. As are the achievements which are far more important than one thinks (waved through the other mechanics) in the game.
So I guess playing Wow 2009 is the only way of knowing it.
We are still talking about different things Zorn so I think we should just let it pass since you always reply with the equivalent of a specifications list for a tape recorder instead of a discussion about what makes a game good. However I will reply on two points:
- WotLK only brought two new raid encounters. That is it. Naxx is the same old Naxx and nothing new. For someone that never did Naxx it is of course a great raid dungeon but it shows that Blizzard is not putting the same amount of resources behind WoW as it did previously.
- Regarding my statements about WoW's decline: I still believe 2009 will be the year when WoW starts to decline - since Blizzard is not making the most out of the product. This statement can be said at the same time as another statement of mine that WoW is the best computer game in the last 9 years. The world is not as black and white as you make it Zorn.
And i still log on and play given your last comment. However, i have had nothing to do since Christmas which speaks about the current content release schedule.
Wintergrasp is a total lagfest on my server unless you play early in the morning . 10 sec server lag is not fun , even if u had 200 defending and 100 atacking the atacker would still win cause lag + siege = gg wintergrasp .
Im not trying to bash wow cause i play alot ( lol ) but wintergrasp is definetly not epic on a high pop server ,
Wintergrasp really isnt all that epic even without the lag, its kind of fun but people these days treat it kind of like a daily quest or something, like "hey WG is in 20 minutes lets just jump in there and meh who cares after that". It doesnt compare to the old days of ransacking a city or town just for the sake of it.... its just different. These days nearly all types of progression are things you can do little by little, so players do things that will help them progress that little bit, rather than more community based things as they did prior. I miss having not so epic looking armor and weapons, i miss seeing people with epic looking weapons go by and thinking "wow that person is hardcore", i miss epics actually being epic rather than required.
Wintergrasp really isnt all that epic even without the lag, its kind of fun but people these days treat it kind of like a daily quest or something, like "hey WG is in 20 minutes lets just jump in there and meh who cares after that". It doesnt compare to the old days of ransacking a city or town just for the sake of it.... its just different. These days nearly all types of progression are things you can do little by little, so players do things that will help them progress that little bit, rather than more community based things as they did prior. I miss having not so epic looking armor and weapons, i miss seeing people with epic looking weapons go by and thinking "wow that person is hardcore", i miss epics actually being epic rather than required.
+1
You obviously can't argue that they added plenty of content and features to the game since "vanilla" what I think people are arguing is if this has made the game any more fun. I for one don't think it did. To all the list of "awesome" new features let's add a few:
- Arenas (yeah... awesome...)
- Easy Epics (why even call them epic anymore?)
- World of Rudeness (I don't know when it happened but the ingame community is just something else nowadays)
- Instances for Dummies ... and yet...
- "Zomg you don't have 1million spellpower you can't join Heroic "insert name of instance here"
I remember playing TBC and quite shortly after release going for the first heroic instances with what was left of my guild. We managed and yet we weren't geared to our teeth with PVP epics and it was fun... I've always enjoyed the 5man content (though nothing beats the old Scholo/strat evening, 45min runs, etc). I went back to WoW shortly before Wotlk and... wow.
I don't think i've ever had less fun in an mmo in my life. People getting kicked from groups because their gear wasn't good enough, total lack of "working to achieve something" everything in wow has become about instant gratification with no challenge nor desire for it.
Yes the game could not have stayed classic forever, indeed it wouldn't have the supposed subscriber base it has now. But in all fairness many of the people that were in classic just don't play it anymore. Before starting anew I played on 3 servers (1pve, 1pvp, 1pve casually with friends) my two raiding guilds disbanded 6months into tbc, all my rl friends quit playing and my friend lists were completely empty when i went back... on all three servers. (Reason why I rerolled "fresh" on a new one)
So the question is yes they added tons of stuff but what did they lose out on? A good old challenge and fun times is the answer if you ask me.
They deff were back when i was leveling up in classic with no clue what endgame was The grind felt really long back then but was amazingly fun when doing it with friends
Because the 1-60 grind was longer back then. But I agree. It was new and exciting and everyone seemed stoked about getting to end level to raid Rag. I know it is still somewhat the same with new levels and bosses, but it just seems different now.
I agree it is easy to look at history with rose tinted glasses but some things have fundamentally changed to the worse. Let's start with things that are basically always good for a game:
- More polish. Regardless of taste, the more polish the better. No loot lag. No evade bugged mobs. Very low latency. Ace responsiveness when using abilities. Fluid animations. All this things are good. Period. And Blizzard excells at it. WoW at launch was great when it came to these things but WoW today is even better.
- Content for people that play solo or with a friend. This is always also positive. There is no conflict between solo and group content in itself. Despit this alot of games have only end-game content with forced group mechanisms. WoW was ok at launch but is much better today (2vs2 and 3vs3 arenas, daylies, Wintergrasp).
However, there are things that have gone wrong. Early vanilla WoW and early TBC the effort to reward ratios were basically right. Half-way through TBC this changed dramatically with the easy BG gear and when making heroics easier. At the end of vanilla WoW the effort to reward ratio was absurd as a fully decked Naxx raider was so far ahead of anything else in the game it was close to silly. From mid-TBC however, the effort to reward ratio is absurd in the other direction. Blizzard has completely mismanaged gear-inflation. When Blizzard now tries to hit the brakes in Ulduar it actually makes it worse since it is the smallest increment in gear in WoW history which just underlines the Zimbawean hyperinflation going on. And why is the effort/reward ratio important? That is the single most important difference between an MMO and an FPS.
If I had been Blizzard I had promoted single-player gear with primarily crafting instead of easy heroics and PvP gear - and not linked it to raiding/instancing like Blizzard is doing but then rather to a complex economy, rare mats and a crafting skill level system that is not based on 'go to cap while you level and instance yourself to get good patterns/designs etc'.
Another aspect is the hyper zone complex. The best comparison I can make is between Star Wars Episode IV (first movie) and Star Wars Episode I. George put in more of everything in Star Wars Episode I and less of the ordinary. The effect? The movie was much worse and the effects became nothing since they were on the screen 100% of the time. There is a need for differences to get contrast that in turn makes the world interesting. WotLK is better than TBC in this aspect but still far from vanilla WoW. Just as an example from LotRO this time - the Old Forest. The mist is thick. You enter there with quests the first time that is just your level. It is a labyrinth of thick forest and there are elite mobs at many places. You get lost and you fear for your life constantly. Super easy story telling but it works. Even though I loved the quests in WotLK I never had to watch my back, I never got lost and I never got this feeling of being small in a large dangerous world. Less super hero content and more real adventure content in my opinion.
So net-net: Yes many technical aspects are better as well as more solo/small group content, but effort/reward ratios are totally borked, the story telling elements are plain weaker despite good back drops and the content release schedule is just plain bad at the moment.
I have to admit WOLTK killed 98% of my interest in the game. Just too easy. What's with dungeons that have only three rooms? C'mon.
Or worse, a dungeon with one room. That's right, Violet Hold is one room.
Part of the thrill of dungeon crawling is in navigating corridors, getting lost (scary), getting found (relief), and discovering what may lurk around the next corner or in the next room.
WOLTK Report Card (D-)
1. Lame gear graphics
2. Lame dungeons
3. Lame storyline quests
I just hope Blizzard has learned and comes out with a more challenging MMO soon, because a fellow can only play so much "Left For Dead", while waiting for a new game, until he goes bananas.
For me it was mainly the first few months after launch when everyone was still exploring, learning and figuring things out. People helped each other out and the community was_a lot_less juvenile and elitist. When they were only a few 60's and stranglethorn vale was a battleground for levelling toons rather than gankers heaven. and people would talk of far away lands and it seemed to talk an age to get there, it gave the whole thing a sense of scale, and danger too when crossing in to horde lands for the first time and having the big red title 'You are now entering the Barrens' flash up. I think everyone remembers their first Crossroads raid with fondness.
Second time, and to a lesser extent, was in BC when they made it possible to itemise through pvp which was one of the reasons I had quit 6 months before. They've dumped that philosophy now ofc so those days are over.
There's nothing glorious about WotLK. It's got some excellent quests and I like the new phasing technique but it's not even as good as TBC in my book.
_________________________________________ You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
So much ignorance in this thread about vanilla....
e.g. "oh vanilla didn't have epic battles like WG"
ever heard of TM?
"Attacking world leaders rewards players now"
One bear mount? One time? Sorry, but no one runs city runs anymore on my server.
With that said, people from vanilla screamed for rewards from city runs. Think of dishonourable kills, those in vanilla hated them but Vanilla is recognised as "that game that had dishonourable kills" because none of the players liked it, it was forced upon them by a stupid company that still does stupid things till this day. They decided to kill a lot of the fun that Vanilla could have been, we could have had epic battles in old world, and WOW did have epic battles in old world before it was taken away moronically. Can you really pin that on vanilla? Not really, because if it was remade or how it was remembered, it would be remembered or remade the best ways, when people wanted to create epic battles themselves.
And I think that is a key point, "created epic battles", vanilla was being thrown into the wide that way WoW and you yourself deciding where to go. It was you taking a wrong turn... That wasn't actually wrong because you found something anyway instead of being pushed by the big man into a specific direction like you are now. Being forced to only have epic battles in WG, being parterned with randoms while being against randoms rather then knowing the players you fight against.
Anyone who is against vanilla here either never really played it, or didn't play it at all. I was a casual in vanilla, much like the audience Blizzard tries for now, and I can say without ANY doubt that Vanilla was the greatest age in WoW. I raided in TBC, had many friends, and loved it... and I was a casual loner in vanilla who didn't really have any friends (that I got or friends IRL that played the game, my friends weren't that geeky/hardcore ><) and I knew how much better vanilla was.
Retards can say whatever "lol nostalgia" shit you want. But ignorance is ignorance, WOTLK coming with no new raid content is TOTALLY nostalgia and we totally can't recognise a good game from a bad game. Don't get me wrong, there have been minor improvements to WoW and to classes over the years, e.g. bag space, etc. But that is far from "creating a better game". We all know WoW has changed direction and those who are complaining those who disagreed with the changes.
Do people say Terminator the original is better then Terminator 2? Of course not, so it is stupid to say, "lol your nostalgia on vanilla is totally wrose then your nostalgia on TBC even though overall you had a better time in TBC ... well just because... I SAID".
So keep it up, nostalgia is the only reply you pathetic fanboys have. And I say fanboys because I am the one that can defend WoW when it first came out but also know when a game has gone bad.
There's nothing glorious about WotLK. It's got some excellent quests and I like the new phasing technique but it's not even as good as TBC in my book.
I agree, the new style of questing was great, and so was phasing, but it didn't have that mysterious feel vanilla and TBC brought. People diss TBC, and in many ways they are right (e.g. questing was linear and boring and not-unique while leveling, and leveling was the exact same for ally as horde), but overall TBC still had that "everything is big" feeling while WOTLK didn't. Karazhan was hard, and it took a hard questline to get there, it was an achievement (without achievements ><) and stuff like that kept the game alive for me, even when I was one of the top raiders in TBC.
Nostalgia does odd things with people. The most important things about an MMORPG are playing options. Lots of them. Today Wow has about a zillion more playing options than old hat "fetch that, grind that, raid that" mechanics. If OLD wow would have stayed they would have had 500K to 1M subs by now. ---- To all those who disagree: imagine a new mmorpg from Blizzard with all the TECHNICS used in WotLK. The quests? incomparable. The 3D vertical built up world (like the Fjords)? non existent. The phasing? non existent. The Arena? Non existent. The Bg's? Non existent. The titles being based on competitive play and skill BOTH in Pve and PvP (an not on grind)? Non existent. The 100/100 massive fights over destructable Keeps with the Siege engines of WC3 EVERY DAY on EVERY server? Non existent. The daily quests in open world PvP reducing completely the grind feeling? Non existent. The titles and achievements system in EVERY branch of the game you like most ? Non existent. The personal flying mounts and have a REAL 3D experience? Non existent. I could go on and on and on. Dual Specs for example are a perfect example of how they will relaunch everyhting. But basic Wow was a lot less than present day Wow. All the rest is NOSTALGIA.
*okay, I lost a lot of my work due to a new mouse... QQ.. had to start again and now very pissed off*
* Questing: YES, quests are VERY incomparable... But not because of ignorant comments like yours that base the word "comparable" on the fact that WOTLK is much better. They are incomparable because Vanilla was a new game. Creating quests for a new game is very different then creating quests for an existing game that is having an expansion pack. Like I noted early, I have to give a thumbs up to quests while leveling in WOTLK... But at the same time do I say that quests are lame like you do? Of course not. There were probably MANY different types of quests tested in Vanilla, actually vanilla is where different styles of quest design first started off.
* Sorry, but more dimensions to a game doesn't make it better, as I noted in my last post, flying mounts ruined player interaction. For an MMORPG this is bad. Overall, Blizzard made everything on Fjord explorable by normal mount because that's what they forced on a player. And that is why the first 7 levels you couldn't use a flying mount, because flying mounts are BAD BAD BAD for player interaction. Ignorant retards like yourself can go on as long as you want, doesn't make flying mounts better for MMORPGs, LIMITATIONS ARE GOOD. They are like rules in a game of soccer, rules are there fora purpose, the next major MMORPG will not (hopefully) have flying mounts... And learn from WoW horrible mistake.
* Phasing was a good addition, was it needed for the progression of MMORPGs? No. It is well done, it is needed for an MMORPG that is based on a story and one that wants to tell its story... But TBH if you want to tell a story... Make a movie... Or a JRPG... not a MMORPG. WOW ruined Warcraft's lore.
* Noted this somewhere else, Arena was something that could have been made into a serperate thing. In major tournaments the top players need zero MMORPG progression, so the use of arena in this game was made useless. Blizzard has made seperate servers for arena, and they could have done that from the beginning. Changed talents that were only based in arena servers, rather then affecting the actual nature of the MMORPG.
* BGs came out during Vanilla, so already here your ignorance is showing, I have no doubt that you never truely played vanilla.
* Titles are not gameplay.
* Firstly, vehicals are not in the nature of MMORPGs, pressing your main button and aiming is not an MMORPG. Secondly, there were massive battles to be had at TM/SS pretty much every day in vanilla before Blizzard did a stupid and moronically added dishonour. Again, your ignorance is showing.
* What daily quests openly want you to PVP? WG ones? Lol? I'd rather have massive battles in Ash and take over the town then do some quests where all I have to do is ask someone for a raid invite and soak up the kills to finish it.
* Again, flying mounts are bad for MMORPGs.
Seriously, just reading your shit just proves to me that you never played vanilla, but have just caught onto recent changes to WoW rather then going into changes that were made in early-TBC or anywhere else.
For me, WoW started to go downhill the moment they introduced the Battlegrounds. Even without the honor system implemented back then, people would still go out of the capitols and look for fights in the open world (the bigger the better).
I had the best time before battlegrounds when majority of the players PvPed for fun. Now everyones so hooked on chasing the carrot that they can't be bothered with anything unless it gives epix.
Comments
I know you would disagree Zorndorf but as I see it you miss the entire point of the thread: That content is more streamlined (no surprises), less of sand-box type (WoW has been very low on sand-box type content since its release - for good reasons - but to make everything linear is at least in my opinion bad), classes are more bland and content is more trivial. In addition content release is slowing down significantly.
You talk mostly about technicalities which does not really make a game as I see it. And I am not just nostalgic - WoW is moving towards the FPS genre very fast and I think that is sad.
Content release schedule for WoW:
1st year: WoW Box (with all that came with it), Maraudon, Dire Maul, Azuregos, Kazzak, Honor system plus AB, WG and AV, BWL and Zul'Gurub
2nd year: Silithus (complete remake), AQ20, AQ40 and Naxxramas
3rd year: TBC (with all that came with it), BT, Mt Hyjal, Zul'Aman
4th year: Sunwell, WotLK (only 2 new raid bosses) - > What happened here?
5th year: Ulduar + ?
WoW atm is better game than classic WoW its just that ppl are missing their noob day when u didint know anything about end game and was just lvling because it was the only thing u could do and everyone was doing it .
Come on blizz release ur next mmo already so we can have another GREAT game to be newb in again
Zorndorf got to admire the fact that you LOVE WoW. Lol well good for you. For you nothing anyone here can POST anything at all to make you feel anything different. To this I APPLAUD you.
I just hope you feel this way when ST:TOR comes out and STEALS WoW players by the THOUSANDS.
so how many people have said so and so game will steal thousands of WoW players? pretty much everything after wow and none have come close
The biggest advantage of Vanilla WoW was the fact that it was new.
'Most powerful is he who controls his own power.'
That's the difference with someone who doesn't care about the game and just makes VERY general statements rounding down wherever it can be done. Downplaying things is a sport.. Your old posts of "Wow will be dead soon" are a testomony about that.
WotLK at launch (3.0) has ... 4 Raids btw not 2 "raid bosses". The total number of new raid bosses is 20. Nice to see semantics play such an important aspect. Just ignoring the dozens of new dungeons and heroics in WotLK is also a nice slip. As are the achievements which are far more important than one thinks (waved through the other mechanics) in the game.
So I guess playing Wow 2009 is the only way of knowing it.
We are still talking about different things Zorn so I think we should just let it pass since you always reply with the equivalent of a specifications list for a tape recorder instead of a discussion about what makes a game good. However I will reply on two points:
- WotLK only brought two new raid encounters. That is it. Naxx is the same old Naxx and nothing new. For someone that never did Naxx it is of course a great raid dungeon but it shows that Blizzard is not putting the same amount of resources behind WoW as it did previously.
- Regarding my statements about WoW's decline: I still believe 2009 will be the year when WoW starts to decline - since Blizzard is not making the most out of the product. This statement can be said at the same time as another statement of mine that WoW is the best computer game in the last 9 years. The world is not as black and white as you make it Zorn.
And i still log on and play given your last comment. However, i have had nothing to do since Christmas which speaks about the current content release schedule.
For the guy above .
Wintergrasp is a total lagfest on my server unless you play early in the morning . 10 sec server lag is not fun , even if u had 200 defending and 100 atacking the atacker would still win cause lag + siege = gg wintergrasp .
Im not trying to bash wow cause i play alot ( lol ) but wintergrasp is definetly not epic on a high pop server ,
Wintergrasp really isnt all that epic even without the lag, its kind of fun but people these days treat it kind of like a daily quest or something, like "hey WG is in 20 minutes lets just jump in there and meh who cares after that". It doesnt compare to the old days of ransacking a city or town just for the sake of it.... its just different. These days nearly all types of progression are things you can do little by little, so players do things that will help them progress that little bit, rather than more community based things as they did prior. I miss having not so epic looking armor and weapons, i miss seeing people with epic looking weapons go by and thinking "wow that person is hardcore", i miss epics actually being epic rather than required.
+1
You obviously can't argue that they added plenty of content and features to the game since "vanilla" what I think people are arguing is if this has made the game any more fun. I for one don't think it did. To all the list of "awesome" new features let's add a few:
- Arenas (yeah... awesome...)
- Easy Epics (why even call them epic anymore?)
- World of Rudeness (I don't know when it happened but the ingame community is just something else nowadays)
- Instances for Dummies ... and yet...
- "Zomg you don't have 1million spellpower you can't join Heroic "insert name of instance here"
I remember playing TBC and quite shortly after release going for the first heroic instances with what was left of my guild. We managed and yet we weren't geared to our teeth with PVP epics and it was fun... I've always enjoyed the 5man content (though nothing beats the old Scholo/strat evening, 45min runs, etc). I went back to WoW shortly before Wotlk and... wow.
I don't think i've ever had less fun in an mmo in my life. People getting kicked from groups because their gear wasn't good enough, total lack of "working to achieve something" everything in wow has become about instant gratification with no challenge nor desire for it.
Yes the game could not have stayed classic forever, indeed it wouldn't have the supposed subscriber base it has now. But in all fairness many of the people that were in classic just don't play it anymore. Before starting anew I played on 3 servers (1pve, 1pvp, 1pve casually with friends) my two raiding guilds disbanded 6months into tbc, all my rl friends quit playing and my friend lists were completely empty when i went back... on all three servers. (Reason why I rerolled "fresh" on a new one)
So the question is yes they added tons of stuff but what did they lose out on? A good old challenge and fun times is the answer if you ask me.
Because the 1-60 grind was longer back then. But I agree. It was new and exciting and everyone seemed stoked about getting to end level to raid Rag. I know it is still somewhat the same with new levels and bosses, but it just seems different now.
I agree it is easy to look at history with rose tinted glasses but some things have fundamentally changed to the worse. Let's start with things that are basically always good for a game:
- More polish. Regardless of taste, the more polish the better. No loot lag. No evade bugged mobs. Very low latency. Ace responsiveness when using abilities. Fluid animations. All this things are good. Period. And Blizzard excells at it. WoW at launch was great when it came to these things but WoW today is even better.
- Content for people that play solo or with a friend. This is always also positive. There is no conflict between solo and group content in itself. Despit this alot of games have only end-game content with forced group mechanisms. WoW was ok at launch but is much better today (2vs2 and 3vs3 arenas, daylies, Wintergrasp).
However, there are things that have gone wrong. Early vanilla WoW and early TBC the effort to reward ratios were basically right. Half-way through TBC this changed dramatically with the easy BG gear and when making heroics easier. At the end of vanilla WoW the effort to reward ratio was absurd as a fully decked Naxx raider was so far ahead of anything else in the game it was close to silly. From mid-TBC however, the effort to reward ratio is absurd in the other direction. Blizzard has completely mismanaged gear-inflation. When Blizzard now tries to hit the brakes in Ulduar it actually makes it worse since it is the smallest increment in gear in WoW history which just underlines the Zimbawean hyperinflation going on. And why is the effort/reward ratio important? That is the single most important difference between an MMO and an FPS.
If I had been Blizzard I had promoted single-player gear with primarily crafting instead of easy heroics and PvP gear - and not linked it to raiding/instancing like Blizzard is doing but then rather to a complex economy, rare mats and a crafting skill level system that is not based on 'go to cap while you level and instance yourself to get good patterns/designs etc'.
Another aspect is the hyper zone complex. The best comparison I can make is between Star Wars Episode IV (first movie) and Star Wars Episode I. George put in more of everything in Star Wars Episode I and less of the ordinary. The effect? The movie was much worse and the effects became nothing since they were on the screen 100% of the time. There is a need for differences to get contrast that in turn makes the world interesting. WotLK is better than TBC in this aspect but still far from vanilla WoW. Just as an example from LotRO this time - the Old Forest. The mist is thick. You enter there with quests the first time that is just your level. It is a labyrinth of thick forest and there are elite mobs at many places. You get lost and you fear for your life constantly. Super easy story telling but it works. Even though I loved the quests in WotLK I never had to watch my back, I never got lost and I never got this feeling of being small in a large dangerous world. Less super hero content and more real adventure content in my opinion.
So net-net: Yes many technical aspects are better as well as more solo/small group content, but effort/reward ratios are totally borked, the story telling elements are plain weaker despite good back drops and the content release schedule is just plain bad at the moment.
I have to admit WOLTK killed 98% of my interest in the game. Just too easy. What's with dungeons that have only three rooms? C'mon.
Or worse, a dungeon with one room. That's right, Violet Hold is one room.
Part of the thrill of dungeon crawling is in navigating corridors, getting lost (scary), getting found (relief), and discovering what may lurk around the next corner or in the next room.
WOLTK Report Card (D-)
1. Lame gear graphics
2. Lame dungeons
3. Lame storyline quests
I just hope Blizzard has learned and comes out with a more challenging MMO soon, because a fellow can only play so much "Left For Dead", while waiting for a new game, until he goes bananas.
WoW definately has a problem with some certain gear looking well like garbage, I wish they had the hide stupid Shoulders option.
The glory days for me have come twice.
For me it was mainly the first few months after launch when everyone was still exploring, learning and figuring things out. People helped each other out and the community was_a lot_less juvenile and elitist. When they were only a few 60's and stranglethorn vale was a battleground for levelling toons rather than gankers heaven. and people would talk of far away lands and it seemed to talk an age to get there, it gave the whole thing a sense of scale, and danger too when crossing in to horde lands for the first time and having the big red title 'You are now entering the Barrens' flash up. I think everyone remembers their first Crossroads raid with fondness.
Second time, and to a lesser extent, was in BC when they made it possible to itemise through pvp which was one of the reasons I had quit 6 months before. They've dumped that philosophy now ofc so those days are over.
There's nothing glorious about WotLK. It's got some excellent quests and I like the new phasing technique but it's not even as good as TBC in my book.
_________________________________________
You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
So much ignorance in this thread about vanilla....
e.g. "oh vanilla didn't have epic battles like WG"
ever heard of TM?
"Attacking world leaders rewards players now"
One bear mount? One time? Sorry, but no one runs city runs anymore on my server.
With that said, people from vanilla screamed for rewards from city runs. Think of dishonourable kills, those in vanilla hated them but Vanilla is recognised as "that game that had dishonourable kills" because none of the players liked it, it was forced upon them by a stupid company that still does stupid things till this day. They decided to kill a lot of the fun that Vanilla could have been, we could have had epic battles in old world, and WOW did have epic battles in old world before it was taken away moronically. Can you really pin that on vanilla? Not really, because if it was remade or how it was remembered, it would be remembered or remade the best ways, when people wanted to create epic battles themselves.
And I think that is a key point, "created epic battles", vanilla was being thrown into the wide that way WoW and you yourself deciding where to go. It was you taking a wrong turn... That wasn't actually wrong because you found something anyway instead of being pushed by the big man into a specific direction like you are now. Being forced to only have epic battles in WG, being parterned with randoms while being against randoms rather then knowing the players you fight against.
Anyone who is against vanilla here either never really played it, or didn't play it at all. I was a casual in vanilla, much like the audience Blizzard tries for now, and I can say without ANY doubt that Vanilla was the greatest age in WoW. I raided in TBC, had many friends, and loved it... and I was a casual loner in vanilla who didn't really have any friends (that I got or friends IRL that played the game, my friends weren't that geeky/hardcore ><) and I knew how much better vanilla was.
Retards can say whatever "lol nostalgia" shit you want. But ignorance is ignorance, WOTLK coming with no new raid content is TOTALLY nostalgia and we totally can't recognise a good game from a bad game. Don't get me wrong, there have been minor improvements to WoW and to classes over the years, e.g. bag space, etc. But that is far from "creating a better game". We all know WoW has changed direction and those who are complaining those who disagreed with the changes.
Do people say Terminator the original is better then Terminator 2? Of course not, so it is stupid to say, "lol your nostalgia on vanilla is totally wrose then your nostalgia on TBC even though overall you had a better time in TBC ... well just because... I SAID".
So keep it up, nostalgia is the only reply you pathetic fanboys have. And I say fanboys because I am the one that can defend WoW when it first came out but also know when a game has gone bad.
I agree, the new style of questing was great, and so was phasing, but it didn't have that mysterious feel vanilla and TBC brought. People diss TBC, and in many ways they are right (e.g. questing was linear and boring and not-unique while leveling, and leveling was the exact same for ally as horde), but overall TBC still had that "everything is big" feeling while WOTLK didn't. Karazhan was hard, and it took a hard questline to get there, it was an achievement (without achievements ><) and stuff like that kept the game alive for me, even when I was one of the top raiders in TBC.
*okay, I lost a lot of my work due to a new mouse... QQ.. had to start again and now very pissed off*
* Questing: YES, quests are VERY incomparable... But not because of ignorant comments like yours that base the word "comparable" on the fact that WOTLK is much better. They are incomparable because Vanilla was a new game. Creating quests for a new game is very different then creating quests for an existing game that is having an expansion pack. Like I noted early, I have to give a thumbs up to quests while leveling in WOTLK... But at the same time do I say that quests are lame like you do? Of course not. There were probably MANY different types of quests tested in Vanilla, actually vanilla is where different styles of quest design first started off.
* Sorry, but more dimensions to a game doesn't make it better, as I noted in my last post, flying mounts ruined player interaction. For an MMORPG this is bad. Overall, Blizzard made everything on Fjord explorable by normal mount because that's what they forced on a player. And that is why the first 7 levels you couldn't use a flying mount, because flying mounts are BAD BAD BAD for player interaction. Ignorant retards like yourself can go on as long as you want, doesn't make flying mounts better for MMORPGs, LIMITATIONS ARE GOOD. They are like rules in a game of soccer, rules are there fora purpose, the next major MMORPG will not (hopefully) have flying mounts... And learn from WoW horrible mistake.
* Phasing was a good addition, was it needed for the progression of MMORPGs? No. It is well done, it is needed for an MMORPG that is based on a story and one that wants to tell its story... But TBH if you want to tell a story... Make a movie... Or a JRPG... not a MMORPG. WOW ruined Warcraft's lore.
* Noted this somewhere else, Arena was something that could have been made into a serperate thing. In major tournaments the top players need zero MMORPG progression, so the use of arena in this game was made useless. Blizzard has made seperate servers for arena, and they could have done that from the beginning. Changed talents that were only based in arena servers, rather then affecting the actual nature of the MMORPG.
* BGs came out during Vanilla, so already here your ignorance is showing, I have no doubt that you never truely played vanilla.
* Titles are not gameplay.
* Firstly, vehicals are not in the nature of MMORPGs, pressing your main button and aiming is not an MMORPG. Secondly, there were massive battles to be had at TM/SS pretty much every day in vanilla before Blizzard did a stupid and moronically added dishonour. Again, your ignorance is showing.
* What daily quests openly want you to PVP? WG ones? Lol? I'd rather have massive battles in Ash and take over the town then do some quests where all I have to do is ask someone for a raid invite and soak up the kills to finish it.
* Again, flying mounts are bad for MMORPGs.
Seriously, just reading your shit just proves to me that you never played vanilla, but have just caught onto recent changes to WoW rather then going into changes that were made in early-TBC or anywhere else.
For me, WoW started to go downhill the moment they introduced the Battlegrounds. Even without the honor system implemented back then, people would still go out of the capitols and look for fights in the open world (the bigger the better).
THAT right there felt like a world of Warcraft.
I had the best time before battlegrounds when majority of the players PvPed for fun. Now everyones so hooked on chasing the carrot that they can't be bothered with anything unless it gives epix.