Originally posted by zymurgeist World or Warcraft is a sandbox game. All MMOs are sandbox games. I've never seen or heard of one that isn't. You sir are seeing big picture in a single word with a specific meaning when it isn'tt there. You're the one using an insult not me your strawman is an epic failure.
Well, if you think WoW is a sandbox game, then we have two different ideas of what sandbox means. I'm sure some agree with you, and I'm know there are some that agree with me.
"your strawman is an epic failure"? Where are you from? I never heard of that phrase before... what a funny insult.
The industry that defines the terminology it uses agrees with me. A bunch of people who derive their definitions from the grey matter between their ears and the ramblings off the uneducated on forums agrees with you. Guess which I hold as authoritative? If you don't know what a strawman is I suggest you educate yourself in debate. The term has been around for centuries. I have not insulted you, although I'm pretty close to doing so at the moment.
To the OP take it from someone who is about as far from being a fanboy as you can get. Darkfall is most definitly a sandbox game. It just doesn't have the features you desire.
So mr, i am not a fanboy,can you explain to us less intelligent than you,what makes a mmorpg a sandbox game.
I agree, not being Theme Park does not equal sandbox. You need the tools to be what you want and to feel free in the game, Darkfall only provides the tools for a giant PVP arena.
The industry that defines the terminology it uses agrees with me. A bunch of people who derive their definitions from the grey matter between their ears and the ramblings off the uneducated on forums agrees with you. Guess which I hold as authoritative? If you don't know what a strawman is I suggest you educate yourself in debate. The term has been around for centuries. I have not insulted you, although I'm pretty close to doing so at the moment. To the OP take it from someone who is about as far from being a fanboy as you can get. Darkfall is most definitly a sandbox game. It just doesn't have the features you desire.
Words change over time. You are the representive of what is (the industry), and we are the philosophical players who what will become (the future industry).
Video games have drastically changed over time. They are becoming more and more realistic. The US Government even has a video game out now for potential soldiers. You take on the definition of old and we take it on anew.
Maybe we could settle on calling DF a sandbox, just with rather few tools and things to play with inside said sandbox?
Fine. Just don't call it non-linear because Darkfall is very combat focused, such to the extent that you have to take on combat or you can't progress as you normally would in the game.
Yes, that's one of the reasons I haven't even been trying to get an account...
Sandbox means the world has no levels,The game makers let you take the path you want.Non sandbox games force you on path aka Super Mario bros or Gears of wars.Yes they are linear games with multiple paths or with a main path and sub mission which are very close sandboxes games and nowadays there is a very blurry line.
Sandbox has nothing to with crafting,fighting or socializing,It is freedom to play through a game how you see fit.Sandbox is attempt at a virtual world and more interaction and control a player has over the world the better the sandbox it is.
Then you personally don't know what a sandbox is. GTA IV has been the standnard by which the concept of sandbox games has been measured since before it was even launched. "In a game with a sandbox mode, a player may turn off or ignore game objectives. This can open up possibilities that were not intended by the game designer. A sandbox mode is an option in otherwise goal-oriented games, and should be distinguished from open-ended games with no objectives such as SimCity."
But ultimately SimCity is a very linear game: you build cities. Of course, no one tells you exactly how to build it, but success in the game is achieved when you build a large city with many skyscrapers, no matter how you achieve it. A game with one goal is not sandbox/non-linear to me. There needs to be content to do anything you'd normally be able to do in real life: including socializing, combat, and crafting.
Can't we just agree to disagree? You aren't going to change my mind on what a sandbox/non-linear game is, and I don't care about changing your's.
We can agree you have no idea what you're talking about. Sim city has no assigned goals there is no measure of success. It can't be linear. You could buid nothing at all and be just as "sucessful." In that sense it's even not really a game.
Well,are you going to enlighten us on what make a mmorpg a sandbox game. The grey matter between my ears needs removing.
Explain to us what make DF a sandbox game .As i said before,VG is only missing a skill based system but other than that it has all the features DF has and then some. Yes i know you are going to say that inDF you can craft anything in the game,well does that make it sandbox?
In VG you have the ability to craft most weaps and armour in the game and it's just as good,if not better in most cases than high end raid gear.
So given this fact,i wouyld say that VG especially on the FFA PVP server has more going for it than DF could ever have.All it needs really is a bigger population but that could happen soon with SOE planning to rerelease the game under a different name and give the PVP server an overhual.
I think you people are totally missing the point here.
"Sandbox" has nothing to do with "Being able to do many things" or "Being able to not pursue objectives for some time".
"Sandbox" has everything to do with "Being able to dynamically change the game world" and "Freely performing actions which have dynamic and coherent effects on the game world".
Morrowind -> No Sandbox
WoW -> No Sandbox
Sim Games -> Sandbox
UO -> Sandbox
EVE -> Sandbox
Protip: Nonlinear games with linear worlds ARE NOT Sandboxes, and I don't give a fuck about how the industry twisted the term to make a selling point out of it.
Originally posted by zymurgeist World or Warcraft is a sandbox game. All MMOs are sandbox games. I've never seen or heard of one that isn't. You sir are seeing big picture in a single word with a specific meaning when it isn'tt there. You're the one using an insult not me your strawman is an epic failure.
Well, if you think WoW is a sandbox game, then we have two different ideas of what sandbox means. I'm sure some agree with you, and I'm know there are some that agree with me.
"your strawman is an epic failure"? Where are you from? I never heard of that phrase before... what a funny insult.
The industry that defines the terminology it uses agrees with me. A bunch of people who derive their definitions from the grey matter between their ears and the ramblings off the uneducated on forums agrees with you. Guess which I hold as authoritative? If you don't know what a strawman is I suggest you educate yourself in debate. The term has been around for centuries. I have not insulted you, although I'm pretty close to doing so at the moment.
To the OP take it from someone who is about as far from being a fanboy as you can get. Darkfall is most definitly a sandbox game. It just doesn't have the features you desire.
So mr, i am not a fanboy,can you explain to us less intelligent than you,what makes a mmorpg a sandbox game.
Who said anyone was less intellegent? Don't put words in my mouth.
What mekes any game a sand box is nonlinearity.
Here I'll let EDGE explain it.
The term refers to a mode of play in which you can fool around in a game’s world without being required to meet a particular objective. By far the best-known sandbox modes are in the later Grand Theft Auto games, contributing greatly to their popularity. Sandbox mode is normally used to describe special modes within otherwise goal-oriented games, not open-ended games like SimCity. Sandbox modes also sometimes afford emergent behavior, events arising in a game’s world that were not planned or predicted by the designer. First use: unknown.
What mekes any game a sand box is nonlinearity. Here I'll let EDGE explain it. The term refers to a mode of play in which you can fool around in a game’s world without being required to meet a particular objective.
In that case Pac-Man may have been the first since you could probably play the first level without doing anything required just by avoiding the ghosts on the screen, if you were good enough.
Or maybe that Adventure Console Game, you could just move side to side if you wanted to. That could be fun.
True, I could have 200 games in the list, but I tried to only have one game from each MMO "sub-category". I might be wrong, but I think VG is a WoW clone, so if you think VG is a sanbox, you can very well vote for WoW. Same thing.
The industry that defines the terminology it uses agrees with me. A bunch of people who derive their definitions from the grey matter between their ears and the ramblings off the uneducated on forums agrees with you. Guess which I hold as authoritative? If you don't know what a strawman is I suggest you educate yourself in debate. The term has been around for centuries. I have not insulted you, although I'm pretty close to doing so at the moment. To the OP take it from someone who is about as far from being a fanboy as you can get. Darkfall is most definitly a sandbox game. It just doesn't have the features you desire.
Words change over time. You are the representive of what is (the industry), and we are the philosophical players who what will become (the future industry).
Video games have drastically changed over time. They are becoming more and more realistic. The US Government even has a video game out now for potential soldiers. You take on the definition of old and we take it on anew.
So your point is words mean what people want them to without reference to anything. Well rutabega in the cabbage patchy. The barfinkle flew telephone psychotically. Nonsensical feathers monkeybars running tangentially?
Video games haven't changed drastically in the last year, or week or last night. People are trying to say Darkfall isn't a sandbox in a wrongheaded attempt to insult the game. It's ludicrous.
You have a lot to say about DF being a sandbox game but you don't want to explain to us what feature make DF a sandbox game. I think you know that you will be made to look silly if you go down that route ,so you are avoiding it.
Explain to us hillbilly folk what features make DF a sandbox game please. If you can't do this then you might as well give up.
Originally posted by zymurgeist So your point is words mean what people want them to without reference to anything. Well rutabega in the cabbage patchy. The barfinkle flew telephone psychotically. Nonsensical feathers monkeybars running tangentially? Video games haven't changed drastically in the last year, or week or last night. People are trying to say Darkfall isn't a sandbox in a wrongheaded attempt to insult the game. It's ludicrous.
Wow, now you are getting emotional. I said they change meaning, not become meaningless words. Like the word gay.
If you would read all my posts, you'd see that I actually did later consent to the fact that the OP and I were wrong and it is a sandbox game, it just isn't non-linear.
True, I could have 200 games in the list, but I tried to only have one game from each MMO "sub-category". I might be wrong, but I think VG is a WoW clone, so if you think VG is a sanbox, you can very well vote for WoW. Same thing.
A WOW clone? man are you off your trolly or have you even played VG. I could name many of features that VG has that wow does not.
I think you people are totally missing the point here. "Sandbox" has nothing to do with "Being able to do many things" or "Being able to not pursue objectives for some time". "Sandbox" has everything to do with "Being able to dynamically change the game world" and "Freely performing actions which have dynamic and coherent effects on the game world". Morrowind -> No Sandbox WoW -> No Sandbox Sim Games -> Sandbox UO -> Sandbox EVE -> Sandbox Protip: Nonlinear games with linear worlds ARE NOT Sandboxes, and I don't give a fuck about how the industry twisted the term to make a selling point out of it.
No dynamically change the the game world makes it a "BETTER" sandbox.Being free do what you want makes game a sandbox.
Just because a game has a skill tree does not make it sandbox. If WoW had no level and you only built on the talent tree, would it be sandbox? No! Sandbox is about player freedom. It is about being able to not hold a weapon, ever, and still have lots to do in the world. It is about being able to build stuff (almost) anywhere, actively changing the world you and other players are experiencing. Is is about having a real self-sustaining economy. SWG was a sandbox. EVE is a sanbox. DF is just a poorly implemented shooter.
you sir are a at a totall loss
you dont have to hold a weapon ever! again after the first 10 minutes of play. then you never ever have to fight any monsters or players again. and still have a impact on the world and players around you.
ecenomics are not a AUCTION house or a Trade Board. the ecenomics in df are there just like the compleet game its still a child it needs to grow. it can grow when people use there mind and be smart. you dont need artificaal stuff that buy and sell items for you!
want to be a explorer - go outside and explore the world
want to be a fighter - go and pick up a weapon and fight monsters
want to be a mage - get a magic staff and fight monsters
want to be a pvper - go and pick up a weapon and go kill the other races
want to be a crafter - harvest you raw materiaals and make the items in the craft you want.
want to be a merchant - buy low and sell high promote your wares in towns and in the rass chat.
you can be this all, just use your mind.
there is only one thing needed and that is a trade channel(s)
Build stuff anywhere...
you cant build anywhere your right here.
you can only build city's and hamlets ad certain points in the world. But this is also a way to promote the PVP in this game.
because not all city;s and hamlets are the same, you can do certain thinks in some you cant do in others.
seems like a sandbox to me. you are free to do what you whant.
Originally posted by zymurgeist No because you score points by eating things. To move naturally results in eating things.The goal is to score the most points. You can stop being absurd now.
I'm not being absurd.
What's the difference about in Pac-Man, being able to move freely as you want to different areas, and in SimCity, being able to build in different areas?
A WOW clone? man are you off your trolly or have you even played VG. I could name many of features that VG has that wow does not.
Which is the crux of the whole thing. Games are defined by their features not trite phrases like theme park, Sandbox, WoW clone, or any of a million others. Categorzing games that way is extremely misleading.
You have a lot to say about DF being a sandbox game but you don't want to explain to us what feature make DF a sandbox game. I think you know that you will be made to look silly if you go down that route ,so you are avoiding it.
Explain to us hillbilly folk what features make DF a sandbox game please. If you can't do this then you might as well give up.
Being free to play the game how you see fit with no levels that what makes DF a sandbox.DF not having robust crafting,socializing and effects on world as say UO that makes a worse sandbox but a sandbox none the less name something that UO has that darkfall does not have a butchered version of.
Just because a game has a skill tree does not make it sandbox. If WoW had no level and you only built on the talent tree, would it be sandbox? No! Sandbox is about player freedom. It is about being able to not hold a weapon, ever, and still have lots to do in the world. It is about being able to build stuff (almost) anywhere, actively changing the world you and other players are experiencing. Is is about having a real self-sustaining economy. SWG was a sandbox. EVE is a sanbox. DF is just a poorly implemented shooter.
you sir are a at a totall loss
you dont have to hold a weapon ever! again after the first 10 minutes of play. then you never ever have to fight any monsters or players again. and still have a impact on the world and players around you.
ecenomics are not a AUCTION house or a Trade Board. the ecenomics in df are there just like the compleet game its still a child it needs to grow. it can grow when people use there mind and be smart. you dont need artificaal stuff that buy and sell items for you!
want to be a explorer - go outside and explore the world
want to be a fighter - go and pick up a weapon and fight monsters
want to be a mage - get a magic staff and fight monsters
want to be a pvper - go and pick up a weapon and go kill the other races
want to be a crafter - harvest you raw materiaals and make the items in the craft you want.
want to be a merchant - buy low and sell high promote your wares in towns and in the rass chat.
you can be this all, just use your mind.
there is only one thing needed and that is a trade channel(s)
Build stuff anywhere...
you cant build anywhere your right here.
you can only build city's and hamlets.
seems like a sandbox to me.
All the things you mention i can do in VG.
I can be a crafter and not pick up a weapon
I can go out and explore a vast world(bigger than DF)
I can choose to be a fighter and kill others
i can choose to be a mage and kill others
i can harvest raw materials
i can be a pvp and kill anyone anytime and anywhere,including guildmates and group mates(i can't loot all there items but i can loot all the cash/gold the have onb them)
i can be a merchant..buy low sell high
I can build guildhalls..player housing and city/hamlets which include my guildmates living around my guild hall with venders for crafting mats and workshops.
There are no instances at all,i can go anywhere i want.
Now the only thing that DF has compaired to VG is a skillbased system
Which is the crux of the whole thing. Games are defined by their features not trite phrases like theme park, Sandbox, WoW clone, or any of a million others. Categorzing games that way is extremely misleading.
But are they not related? Sure, I will agree that these forums do over-use some of these phrases, but to name everything that all the MMOs have here would be a big task. They are just tools to help people.
What's the difference? What's your point? You're now compairing an arcade game to an economic simulation. Not only is it not different names or the same things it's not even a compairison. I can do nothing in a game or do nothing in my yard. Does that make my yard a game? You're beyond absurd now.
My point is Pac-Man is, by your definitions, a 'linear' game, and Sim City is a, 'sandbox' game.
And I didn't say 'nothing'. I said doing something that is pointless to the objective of the game.
They don't just over use them they change the definition at a whim making the terms meaningless. Thereby making the tools that are suppsedly to help people perjoratives. That kind of tool we don't need. Who's worked up?
Comments
Well, if you think WoW is a sandbox game, then we have two different ideas of what sandbox means. I'm sure some agree with you, and I'm know there are some that agree with me.
"your strawman is an epic failure"? Where are you from? I never heard of that phrase before... what a funny insult.
The industry that defines the terminology it uses agrees with me. A bunch of people who derive their definitions from the grey matter between their ears and the ramblings off the uneducated on forums agrees with you. Guess which I hold as authoritative? If you don't know what a strawman is I suggest you educate yourself in debate. The term has been around for centuries. I have not insulted you, although I'm pretty close to doing so at the moment.
To the OP take it from someone who is about as far from being a fanboy as you can get. Darkfall is most definitly a sandbox game. It just doesn't have the features you desire.
So mr, i am not a fanboy,can you explain to us less intelligent than you,what makes a mmorpg a sandbox game.
Jah Rasta For I.
The Wicked Shall Fall..
http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg
I agree, not being Theme Park does not equal sandbox. You need the tools to be what you want and to feel free in the game, Darkfall only provides the tools for a giant PVP arena.
Words change over time. You are the representive of what is (the industry), and we are the philosophical players who what will become (the future industry).
Video games have drastically changed over time. They are becoming more and more realistic. The US Government even has a video game out now for potential soldiers. You take on the definition of old and we take it on anew.
Fine. Just don't call it non-linear because Darkfall is very combat focused, such to the extent that you have to take on combat or you can't progress as you normally would in the game.
Yes, that's one of the reasons I haven't even been trying to get an account...
Sandbox means the world has no levels,The game makers let you take the path you want.Non sandbox games force you on path aka Super Mario bros or Gears of wars.Yes they are linear games with multiple paths or with a main path and sub mission which are very close sandboxes games and nowadays there is a very blurry line.
Sandbox has nothing to with crafting,fighting or socializing,It is freedom to play through a game how you see fit.Sandbox is attempt at a virtual world and more interaction and control a player has over the world the better the sandbox it is.
But ultimately SimCity is a very linear game: you build cities. Of course, no one tells you exactly how to build it, but success in the game is achieved when you build a large city with many skyscrapers, no matter how you achieve it. A game with one goal is not sandbox/non-linear to me. There needs to be content to do anything you'd normally be able to do in real life: including socializing, combat, and crafting.
Can't we just agree to disagree? You aren't going to change my mind on what a sandbox/non-linear game is, and I don't care about changing your's.
We can agree you have no idea what you're talking about. Sim city has no assigned goals there is no measure of success. It can't be linear. You could buid nothing at all and be just as "sucessful." In that sense it's even not really a game.
Well,are you going to enlighten us on what make a mmorpg a sandbox game. The grey matter between my ears needs removing.
Explain to us what make DF a sandbox game .As i said before,VG is only missing a skill based system but other than that it has all the features DF has and then some. Yes i know you are going to say that inDF you can craft anything in the game,well does that make it sandbox?
In VG you have the ability to craft most weaps and armour in the game and it's just as good,if not better in most cases than high end raid gear.
So given this fact,i wouyld say that VG especially on the FFA PVP server has more going for it than DF could ever have.All it needs really is a bigger population but that could happen soon with SOE planning to rerelease the game under a different name and give the PVP server an overhual.
Jah Rasta For I.
The Wicked Shall Fall..
http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg
I think you people are totally missing the point here.
"Sandbox" has nothing to do with "Being able to do many things" or "Being able to not pursue objectives for some time".
"Sandbox" has everything to do with "Being able to dynamically change the game world" and "Freely performing actions which have dynamic and coherent effects on the game world".
Morrowind -> No Sandbox
WoW -> No Sandbox
Sim Games -> Sandbox
UO -> Sandbox
EVE -> Sandbox
Protip: Nonlinear games with linear worlds ARE NOT Sandboxes, and I don't give a fuck about how the industry twisted the term to make a selling point out of it.
Well, if you think WoW is a sandbox game, then we have two different ideas of what sandbox means. I'm sure some agree with you, and I'm know there are some that agree with me.
"your strawman is an epic failure"? Where are you from? I never heard of that phrase before... what a funny insult.
The industry that defines the terminology it uses agrees with me. A bunch of people who derive their definitions from the grey matter between their ears and the ramblings off the uneducated on forums agrees with you. Guess which I hold as authoritative? If you don't know what a strawman is I suggest you educate yourself in debate. The term has been around for centuries. I have not insulted you, although I'm pretty close to doing so at the moment.
To the OP take it from someone who is about as far from being a fanboy as you can get. Darkfall is most definitly a sandbox game. It just doesn't have the features you desire.
So mr, i am not a fanboy,can you explain to us less intelligent than you,what makes a mmorpg a sandbox game.
Who said anyone was less intellegent? Don't put words in my mouth.
What mekes any game a sand box is nonlinearity.
Here I'll let EDGE explain it.
The term refers to a mode of play in which you can fool around in a game’s world without being required to meet a particular objective. By far the best-known sandbox modes are in the later Grand Theft Auto games, contributing greatly to their popularity. Sandbox mode is normally used to describe special modes within otherwise goal-oriented games, not open-ended games like SimCity. Sandbox modes also sometimes afford emergent behavior, events arising in a game’s world that were not planned or predicted by the designer. First use: unknown.
Well that counts DF out then.
Jah Rasta For I.
The Wicked Shall Fall..
http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg
Ok, let's see.
You need to include Vanguard into that list.
Jah Rasta For I.
The Wicked Shall Fall..
http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg
In that case Pac-Man may have been the first since you could probably play the first level without doing anything required just by avoiding the ghosts on the screen, if you were good enough.
Or maybe that Adventure Console Game, you could just move side to side if you wanted to. That could be fun.
You need to include Vanguard into that list.
True, I could have 200 games in the list, but I tried to only have one game from each MMO "sub-category". I might be wrong, but I think VG is a WoW clone, so if you think VG is a sanbox, you can very well vote for WoW. Same thing.
Words change over time. You are the representive of what is (the industry), and we are the philosophical players who what will become (the future industry).
Video games have drastically changed over time. They are becoming more and more realistic. The US Government even has a video game out now for potential soldiers. You take on the definition of old and we take it on anew.
So your point is words mean what people want them to without reference to anything. Well rutabega in the cabbage patchy. The barfinkle flew telephone psychotically. Nonsensical feathers monkeybars running tangentially?
Video games haven't changed drastically in the last year, or week or last night. People are trying to say Darkfall isn't a sandbox in a wrongheaded attempt to insult the game. It's ludicrous.
You have a lot to say about DF being a sandbox game but you don't want to explain to us what feature make DF a sandbox game. I think you know that you will be made to look silly if you go down that route ,so you are avoiding it.
Explain to us hillbilly folk what features make DF a sandbox game please. If you can't do this then you might as well give up.
Jah Rasta For I.
The Wicked Shall Fall..
http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg
Wow, now you are getting emotional. I said they change meaning, not become meaningless words. Like the word gay.
If you would read all my posts, you'd see that I actually did later consent to the fact that the OP and I were wrong and it is a sandbox game, it just isn't non-linear.
You need to include Vanguard into that list.
True, I could have 200 games in the list, but I tried to only have one game from each MMO "sub-category". I might be wrong, but I think VG is a WoW clone, so if you think VG is a sanbox, you can very well vote for WoW. Same thing.
A WOW clone? man are you off your trolly or have you even played VG. I could name many of features that VG has that wow does not.
Jah Rasta For I.
The Wicked Shall Fall..
http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg
No dynamically change the the game world makes it a "BETTER" sandbox.Being free do what you want makes game a sandbox.
you sir are a at a totall loss
you dont have to hold a weapon ever! again after the first 10 minutes of play. then you never ever have to fight any monsters or players again. and still have a impact on the world and players around you.
ecenomics are not a AUCTION house or a Trade Board. the ecenomics in df are there just like the compleet game its still a child it needs to grow. it can grow when people use there mind and be smart. you dont need artificaal stuff that buy and sell items for you!
want to be a explorer - go outside and explore the world
want to be a fighter - go and pick up a weapon and fight monsters
want to be a mage - get a magic staff and fight monsters
want to be a pvper - go and pick up a weapon and go kill the other races
want to be a crafter - harvest you raw materiaals and make the items in the craft you want.
want to be a merchant - buy low and sell high promote your wares in towns and in the rass chat.
you can be this all, just use your mind.
there is only one thing needed and that is a trade channel(s)
Build stuff anywhere...
you cant build anywhere your right here.
you can only build city's and hamlets ad certain points in the world. But this is also a way to promote the PVP in this game.
because not all city;s and hamlets are the same, you can do certain thinks in some you cant do in others.
seems like a sandbox to me. you are free to do what you whant.
I'm not being absurd.
What's the difference about in Pac-Man, being able to move freely as you want to different areas, and in SimCity, being able to build in different areas?
Different names for the same thing.
Which is the crux of the whole thing. Games are defined by their features not trite phrases like theme park, Sandbox, WoW clone, or any of a million others. Categorzing games that way is extremely misleading.
and pointless...
You have a lot to say about DF being a sandbox game but you don't want to explain to us what feature make DF a sandbox game. I think you know that you will be made to look silly if you go down that route ,so you are avoiding it.
Explain to us hillbilly folk what features make DF a sandbox game please. If you can't do this then you might as well give up.
Being free to play the game how you see fit with no levels that what makes DF a sandbox.DF not having robust crafting,socializing and effects on world as say UO that makes a worse sandbox but a sandbox none the less name something that UO has that darkfall does not have a butchered version of.
you sir are a at a totall loss
you dont have to hold a weapon ever! again after the first 10 minutes of play. then you never ever have to fight any monsters or players again. and still have a impact on the world and players around you.
ecenomics are not a AUCTION house or a Trade Board. the ecenomics in df are there just like the compleet game its still a child it needs to grow. it can grow when people use there mind and be smart. you dont need artificaal stuff that buy and sell items for you!
want to be a explorer - go outside and explore the world
want to be a fighter - go and pick up a weapon and fight monsters
want to be a mage - get a magic staff and fight monsters
want to be a pvper - go and pick up a weapon and go kill the other races
want to be a crafter - harvest you raw materiaals and make the items in the craft you want.
want to be a merchant - buy low and sell high promote your wares in towns and in the rass chat.
you can be this all, just use your mind.
there is only one thing needed and that is a trade channel(s)
Build stuff anywhere...
you cant build anywhere your right here.
you can only build city's and hamlets.
seems like a sandbox to me.
All the things you mention i can do in VG.
I can be a crafter and not pick up a weapon
I can go out and explore a vast world(bigger than DF)
I can choose to be a fighter and kill others
i can choose to be a mage and kill others
i can harvest raw materials
i can be a pvp and kill anyone anytime and anywhere,including guildmates and group mates(i can't loot all there items but i can loot all the cash/gold the have onb them)
i can be a merchant..buy low sell high
I can build guildhalls..player housing and city/hamlets which include my guildmates living around my guild hall with venders for crafting mats and workshops.
There are no instances at all,i can go anywhere i want.
Now the only thing that DF has compaired to VG is a skillbased system
I guess VG is a sanbox mmorpg..right.
Jah Rasta For I.
The Wicked Shall Fall..
http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg
But are they not related? Sure, I will agree that these forums do over-use some of these phrases, but to name everything that all the MMOs have here would be a big task. They are just tools to help people.
You are getting worked up for nothing.
Being free to do "what you want" with no consequences makes just a poor game, i.e. Spore.
My point is Pac-Man is, by your definitions, a 'linear' game, and Sim City is a, 'sandbox' game.
And I didn't say 'nothing'. I said doing something that is pointless to the objective of the game.
How so? Enlighten me about this.