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Penalizing PvP on a pvp server??

logangregorlogangregor Member Posts: 1,524


I am like many people utterly bored of WoW.


I like pvp more than anything and this game looked really interesting.

And then I find out that there are HARSH penalties for pvp'ing.


Thats all I needed to know. Before Ive even played the game, that ONE detail ruins the game for me.

Karma systems suck, end of story.

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Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,446

    Karma systems are designed to control the PVP, as unrestricted pvp has proven to be a money loser for developers and they decide to add limits to try and placate the less bloodthirsty.

    Perhaps FPS are more your style? Nothing but PVP in there.

     

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • logangregorlogangregor Member Posts: 1,524

    If the pvp needs to be controlled there shouldnt be any pvp.


    Karma systems are terrible. I mean what if PvP is the only thing you really like to do? I wade thru all the meaningless quests so that I can get gear and pvp.


    What do you mean by unrestricted pvp?
    WoWs pvp servers are doing fine.


    FPS?
    Yeah Ive thought about that. But show me a first person shooter that has CC, where there are different classes--it doesnt exist.

    image

  • AB29AB29 Member Posts: 8
    Originally posted by logangregor


    If the pvp needs to be controlled there shouldnt be any pvp.


    Karma systems are terrible. I mean what if PvP is the only thing you really like to do? I wade thru all the meaningless quests so that I can get gear and pvp.


    What do you mean by unrestricted pvp?

    WoWs pvp servers are doing fine.


    FPS?

    Yeah Ive thought about that. But show me a first person shooter that has CC, where there are different classes--it doesnt exist.

     



     

    Karma systems have worked just fine throughout pvp centered games.   Meridian 59, UO, L2, etc.

    You can't just have open pking with no risk/system in place.  Would be flat stupid.  Would be your open world wow pvp.  Annoying and a waste of time.

     

  • logangregorlogangregor Member Posts: 1,524


    Originally posted by AB29
    Originally posted by logangregor If the pvp needs to be controlled there shouldnt be any pvp.Karma systems are terrible. I mean what if PvP is the only thing you really like to do? I wade thru all the meaningless quests so that I can get gear and pvp.What do you mean by unrestricted pvp?
    WoWs pvp servers are doing fine.FPS?
    Yeah Ive thought about that. But show me a first person shooter that has CC, where there are different classes--it doesnt exist.
     

     
    Karma systems have worked just fine throughout pvp centered games.   Meridian 59, UO, L2, etc.
    You can't just have open pking with no risk/system in place.  Would be flat stupid.  Would be your open world wow pvp.  Annoying and a waste of time.
     



    Meridian what?

    Ultima-- I dont care for pvp with no objective.

    Lineage 2 ---That game is so broken. It was since release.

    and there is no etc.


    So looka here, just because a couple games happened to have Karma Systems doesnt mean that karma systems necesarily WORK in pvp.

    PvP for me is like a sport.
    I like to play my sport and not lose gear if I happen to play.


    And by all means, and this isnt just aimed towards you, taking cracks at wow is old and stupid.

    Its a great game. A ton of people play this great game.
    Open pvp in WoW works great.
    No one loses gear while pvping. Its a whole lot of fun.

    Its not real life. Its a video game.
    I play to enjoy pvp and not to get pennalized for what I like doing.


    image

  • n00bitn00bit Member UncommonPosts: 345

    The Karma system works both ways. Being evil has pros and cons, as does being a hero.

     

    Benefits to being evil(assuming max evil):

    +40% Damage

    +40% TP gain(the stuff that let's you increase your skill levels)

     Special Titles

    Downsides of being evil(assuming max evil):

    80-100% chance of dropping an item(depending on who kills you)

    Sent to prison upon death

    Guards attack you on sight(though they can be killed)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Benefits to being good(assuming max good):

    +40% HP Increase

    Special Titles

    Downsides to being good(assuming max good):

    0-100% chance of dropping items upon death(depending on who kills you)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As you can see, there are benefits and downsides to both ends of the karma system. Personally I think getting 40% more damage and TP gain is more beneficial than the 40% hp increase. I can live with going to jail/dropping an item, it's what makes PvP more thrilling.

  • logangregorlogangregor Member Posts: 1,524


    Great reply but I still think Karma systems that pennalize pvp in a game that caters to pvp is a waste, its ridiculous, makes no sense, catch 22, and a oxymoron to boot.

    I hate this idea of "possibility of losing something is what makes pvp exciting.
    Good PvP mmos dont need the threat of loss to invoke excitement.
    If a game has good pvp, its exciting to pvp. PERIOD.

    image

  • TharzidunTharzidun Member Posts: 8

    The PVP rules were a big reason why I decided to give the game a try in the first place.  I like the fact that you can lose gear, and good gear to boot.  People will now be forced to actually be good at PVP and not just spend lots of time to collect the best gear.  I like the Karma system as it is written, but I'll need to play some before I make up my mind.  As I was reading it, I was reminded of the days gone by when my friends and I used to anti-PK on UO.

    I think if you had totally consequence-free PKing, it would lead to tons of maladjusted children ganking the hell out of the low level areas to gain some sick enjoyment from griefing other players.  With the Karma system, they can do that, but then they become very enticing targets for those who can actually give them a fight.  And if they have something to lose, they may think twice.  If they don't, well then it will be fun making them pay.  For me PVP is more fun if you have something  to lose.

    After reading the European forums, I came to the conclusion that they do need to tweak a few things though.  If Reds are going to get attacked on site by city guards, they need to have some cities that are free zones for Reds.  Evil people like the bank too.  You should never drop quest items from PVP death.  It's silly to lose the ability to complete a quest because you got killed when you stepped AFK to answer the phone.

    Other than that, I'm willing to give it a try.  I know I'm going to get ganked constantly during the mid-levels and lose a lot of stuff, but hopefully it will all be worth it when I'm out hunting down Reds at the later levels.  That's what I loved about PK servers back in the day.  They've become too kind since then, imo. 

  • logangregorlogangregor Member Posts: 1,524


    We just have differing tastes and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


    Im not a fan of ganking. On a pvp server in WoW however I dont think it was out of control. You could always call in friends, play another toon or go to another area.


    In WAR they got rid of the possibility of ganking at all. That was great.


    It takes far too long to get gear, gear that I rely on to give me a edge, and many times a chance to be able to beat someone. I cant Mutilate someone in pvp in wow without daggers.
    I cant get out of Crowd Control without a trinket.
    I cant chain lightning people on my rogue unless I have my engineering trinket...or shoot rockets at someone unless I have my engineering enchant.
    I cant throw a knife at someone unless I have a throwing knife.
    Your right, I do rely on gear but thats how the game is set up.

    Another thing, I like Battlegroundish pvp or DAOCs Realm Vs Realm.
    Pvp like ya got in UO/Shadowbane, yeah no thanks.


    image

  • maxnrosymaxnrosy Member Posts: 608
    Originally posted by Kyleran


    Karma systems are designed to control the PVP, as unrestricted pvp has proven to be a money loser for developers and they decide to add limits to try and placate the less bloodthirsty.
    Perhaps FPS are more your style? Nothing but PVP in there.
     

     

    this is the main reason why karma is implemented. Unlike wow this game is free to play. while wow does its wonders well in pvp (i play wow) you are paying for it. bliz is making money from you.

    The company behind this game must make their item mall appealing.  even in perfect world they have a karma system.  and due to it they do good buisness with their item mall.

    like most ftp games with a karma system. there is a high chance that there will be areas you can take over with your guild. which means there will be pvp that will not be penalized.

    Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.

  • TharzidunTharzidun Member Posts: 8
    Originally posted by logangregor




    We just have differing tastes and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


    Im not a fan of ganking. On a pvp server in WoW however I dont think it was out of control. You could always call in friends, play another toon or go to another area.


    In WAR they got rid of the possibility of ganking at all. That was great.
     


    It takes far too long to get gear, gear that I rely on to give me a edge, and many times a chance to be able to beat someone. I cant Mutilate someone in pvp in wow without daggers.

    I cant get out of Crowd Control without a trinket.

    I cant chain lightning people on my rogue unless I have my engineering trinket...or shoot rockets at someone unless I have my engineering enchant.

    I cant throw a knife at someone unless I have a throwing knife.

    Your right, I do rely on gear but thats how the game is set up.
     
    Another thing, I like Battlegroundish pvp or DAOCs Realm Vs Realm.

    Pvp like ya got in UO/Shadowbane, yeah no thanks.
     

    I wasn't saying you in particular rely on gear to PVP, sorry if it came out that way. 

    I also enjoyed PVP on WoW, but it is a different animal.  The main thing for me is that it already exists there, so I was happy to see the RoM tried something different.  I've always kind of missed the dark and dangerous PKing of early UO, so I was psyched to see someone institute real loss in PVP death.  It may work, it may not.  If it doesn't, I'll reroll on a PVE server and hope they change it.

    Anyway, to each his own.  I'm glad at least that there could be a civil discussion about it.  Such things are rare in MMO forums.

  • t0nydt0nyd Member UncommonPosts: 504
    Originally posted by logangregor


    If the pvp needs to be controlled there shouldnt be any pvp.


    Karma systems are terrible. I mean what if PvP is the only thing you really like to do? I wade thru all the meaningless quests so that I can get gear and pvp.


    What do you mean by unrestricted pvp?

    WoWs pvp servers are doing fine.


    FPS?

    Yeah Ive thought about that. But show me a first person shooter that has CC, where there are different classes--it doesnt exist.

     

     Dont ya just love the " you want an fps " bullshit. Some people just dont understand the concept of enjoying PvP because its a challenge.

      Check out Left 4 Dead. It has CC, and the zombies do play like different  classes.

  • maxnrosymaxnrosy Member Posts: 608

    So i joined this guild yesterday. and well a few players were talking about how fun bgs in this game are.

     

    now i have no clue what bg's stand for in this game but my wow experience tells me its battlegrounds. I can be wrong as i do not know every feature this game does have.

    Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.

  • n00bitn00bit Member UncommonPosts: 345
    Originally posted by maxnrosy


    So i joined this guild yesterday. and well a few players were talking about how fun bgs in this game are.
     
    now i have no clue what bg's stand for in this game but my wow experience tells me its battlegrounds. I can be wrong as i do not know every feature this game does have.

     

    BG stands for Bloody Gallery; it's a level 20-25ish instance outside of Forsaken Abbey(a larger instance).

  • MatchuMatchu Member UncommonPosts: 24

    Interesting discussions chaps...

     

    Hopefully I'll have a go of the game in a day or so....but I must admit I was interested in the pvp penalities to spice things up some...though as an ex-wow player it'll be interesting to see if I actually like it in practice...

     

    Oh and I do hope a pvp encounter lasts a little longer than 2.45464 seconds.....

  • DeviateDeviate Member UncommonPosts: 219

    So you're so "hardcore" that you don't like the kharma system, but you also don't like the fact you can be looted?

    Sounds to me, you just want to gank and have no repercussions. You want to gank, grow some and suffer the consequences if you lose.

  • NeoBahamut19NeoBahamut19 Member UncommonPosts: 3
    Originally posted by logangregor


     


    I am like many people utterly bored of WoW.


    I like pvp more than anything and this game looked really interesting.
     
     
    And then I find out that there are HARSH penalties for pvp'ing.
     


    Thats all I needed to know. Before Ive even played the game, that ONE detail ruins the game for me.
     
    Karma systems suck, end of story.

     

    IMO anyone that needs PvP content that badly should in fact not be playing any sort of MMO at all, MMOs were not originally intended for PvP, they were intended for PvE dungeon raiding. PvP was an afterthought and should have been kept out completely IMO, it honestly would keep many children from playing these games as it seem as though most people who binge on PvP are immature children who like to gank people and laugh about it. You're probably upset because you can't run around in the starting zones ganking people as they spawn in the game just to get a laugh. PvP honestly I think just needs removed from ALL MMORPGs period

    As for your remark about "no CC in FPS" that is untrue. CC in a FPS consists of finding a way to hold back the opposing team. Take for example Team Fortress 2. The Engineer can make sentries that are a VERY good obstacle, Demomen can place sticky bomb traps to kill people as they try to make their way through somewhere, Pyros can use their alt-fire on their main flamethrower to push people back; and as of the recent patch, Scouts can stun players for up to 3 SECONDS! Which in a FPS is plenty of time to kill someone. CC stands for Crowd Control, you "crowd control" in a FPS by playing defense, by all means playing defense means you are attempting to control a crowd.

    End of arguement, if you don't like something about the game then deal with it. If they did not have the PvP system they have set in place, then either noone could attack anyone or it would be a stupid free for all with ganking out the ass.

     By the way, if you are afraid to loose items when you get killed in PvP then you apparently are NOT as "hardcore" as you say you are. Grow up, deal with it, and move on to something else.

     

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