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Why they love FFA/full loot
1. Impact. If two Guilds declare war on another then the only way you can 'hurt' your enemy and bring the war to a conclusion is by taking away resources. In games like WoW/WAR, there is no point in 2 guilds fighting each other. In games like EVE Online, you see Guilds surrender, pay taxes, or merge into bigger Guilds
2. Freedom. FFA gives Guilds the freedom to declare war on each other.
3. Balance. Full Loot / Permenant Item decay brings balance. Now, a veteran will have a use for old 'newbie' gear in some cases. PErhaps they are making a suicide run. Perhaps they are just doing some recon. In games like EVE Online, newbie crafters enjoy selling items to fellow newbies and veterans alike. Balance- now pvpers won't always wear their very best items
4. Reward. In PVE, players are rewarded from killing mobs. This is their primary means of acquiring loot. Well PVP should be no different. Why should a player be so special that they do not drop items? Looting another player is like Christmas, never know what you're gonna get. Brings even more excitement to PVP
5. Risk. Now players will think twice about going into dangerous areas. Will make them group more, pay bodyguards, or pay other Guilds for protection. In EVE Online, Alliances 'rent out' terriority for example.
6. Professions. When FFA/full loot is in play now you'll see all sorts of professions arrive like Pirates, Bodyguards, Defenders (anti PK), recon, etc. Without a doubt this makes games more sandbox
7. Economy. In real life what happens when countries go to war? The economy surges due to the lost and replacement of items.
8. Friendly Fire. What basic feature does FPS have? Friendly Fire. This is the #1 anti-zerg feature in FPS games. If you clump together mindlessly and toss about AOE without a doubt you'll burn your enemy and friends.
9. Justice. Oddly enough, there is no justice in World of Warcraft. A man can gank you over and over. Even if Guildmates show up to put him down, he can just respawn later. Griefing is rampant. This is not PVP. In games like EVE Online and hopefully soon- Darkfall, there will be justice and order. When a griefer comes to your lands, 'Defenders' can rise up and put him down. In EVE, death can mean 30 mins - 1 hour trip back to attack the enemy due the land alone being so huge. Additionally, they suffer the sting of lost of resources. <edit>
Comments
My brother and I will probably multi box 9-10 accounts like we do in WoW (final numbers depending on group size), and more than likely we'll be running casters since they aren't gear dependent.
How do focus fired, naked gank squads equate into your list there? If someone manages to kill one of our toons they won't get anything since they will all be naked, unless they happen to get the one carrying your loot on our way back to the bank.
Most skill-based games I've played of recent times have an elegant solution to that. The simple answer is Naked people cant do anything. In Darkfall you will need equipment to fire long range attacks. At the very least, a Mage will need a staff. An Archer will need a bow.
Additionally, there is no 'focus fire' when realtime dodge is apparent. See, zergs have all power in MMORPGs because they can simply call a target on Vent, everyone TABs to that target, and they spike you to death
Darkfall will lack this feature so people using long range attacks will miss giving the victim a chance to escape, evade, or possibly even overcome greater numbers due to the emphasis on player skill
Why Full loot? Because even pve grind became FUN! Why FFA pvp? Because you are forced to make a friends, favorite crafters and its not so plain deepless game as carebears games are. Just remember good days at UO or any shit game you play with bunch of good friends at Vento/TS, much better fun when you have to socialize right?
I just want to add, Just because you can lose your items doesnt mean you always will. Especially if the guy that kills has a bunch of crap on him already hes not going to be able to gobble up all your crap and run off, hopefully there will be weight issues. But its gets annoying when you get trapped in a room with a crazy boss and he keeps killing you while your trying to grab your gear. Weight issues limit how much farming you can do though but then there could be bags of sending like in UO where you can send items directy to your bank from where ever you are. Either way I agree with full loot because you will cherish your good items, and it makes it possible for there to be item bless deeds and they can be ultra valuable like in old school UO. I remember seeing a red guy one time in UO like 4 years ago and he had 2 blessed weapons of Vanquishing and I nearly died. Sorry I keep mentioning UO but I just love that game before all the garbage
Wow really? Did you realize that there is no auto targeting? You actually have to aim your spells, lead targets, etc. No auto aim, no tab targeting. I would love to see your little gank squad and as you try to aim and hit targets with your 9-10 accounts a single skilled player, or two mediocre players will destroy you.
Wow really? Did you realize that there is no auto targeting? You actually have to aim your spells, lead targets, etc. No auto aim, no tab targeting. I would love to see your little gank squad and as you try to aim and hit targets with your 9-10 accounts a single skilled player, or two mediocre players will destroy you.
+1. I didn't even think of this until you mentioned it. I hate playing with multi-boxers... one of the many reasons not to play WoW and other </tar nextenemy> MMO's out there.
Google for keyclone, you can do army of clones to serve you and cast simultaly with your main in /assist X games :-)
Yay a game where you wear crap and can loot crap from players? This is an instant win!
Why does gear have to be the defining aspect of your character? Shouldn't your character's skill and your skill be more important?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Why does gear have to be the defining aspect of your character? Shouldn't your character's skill and your skill be more important?
That's what most of the "hardcore pvper's" think, until they realize that just about anyone with a functioning brain possess about at the same skill level as they do and they really aren't that special at all.
You're the epiteme of someone who just comes to these forums to start shit...Really dude, your post is ridiculous.
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It's honestly like everyone logs onto WoW, and games like WoW, just to masturbate. Everyone plays by themselves, and when they don't, they get what they want and get off.
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Originally posted by atziluth...
Ah yes when the unreasonable are faced with reason they must resort to personal attacks...When you are ready to move up from the kids table you can talk with the grown ups.
I've read many of your posts I have observed many of your posts about the golden days of EQ, etc. I guess I can understand why you'd not like Darkfall since most EQ players I know view loot acquisition vastly different from PVPers
For pvpers, loot for us are simply tools. Something we must acquire so that we can compete. In EVE Online, for example, you see the extreme where people for sure don;'t worry about looking 'unique' since every ship of a certain class looks the same. This is a vast contrast to EQ mentality- where loot defines your character
Why does gear have to be the defining aspect of your character? Shouldn't your character's skill and your skill be more important?
That's what most of the "hardcore pvper's" think, until they realize that just about anyone with a functioning brain possess about at the same skill level as they do and they really aren't that special at all.
I beg the differ. One trip to youtube will shine the light on that. you'll often see a skilled pvper solo 2-3 players. This could not happen if everyone had equal skill. So I would say the mathematics disprove that "everyone is equal" by a longshot
Knowledge of Terrain, teamwork (Vent/TS), keybindings, response times, etc all contribute to success on virtual battlefields
I've read many of your posts I have observed many of your posts about the golden days of EQ, etc. I guess I can understand why you'd not like Darkfall since most EQ players I know view loot acquisition vastly different from PVPers
For pvpers, loot for us are simply tools. Something we must acquire so that we can compete. In EVE Online, for example, you see the extreme where people for sure don;'t worry about looking 'unique' since every ship of a certain class looks the same. This is a vast contrast to EQ mentality- where loot defines your character
altairzq take your seat, cause PatchDay says school is in session!
Why does gear have to be the defining aspect of your character? Shouldn't your character's skill and your skill be more important?
That's what most of the "hardcore pvper's" think, until they realize that just about anyone with a functioning brain possess about at the same skill level as they do and they really aren't that special at all.
I beg the differ. One trip to youtube will shine the light on that. you'll often see a skilled pvper solo 2-3 players. This could not happen if everyone had equal skill. So I would say the mathematics disprove that "everyone is equal" by a longshot
Knowledge of Terrain, teamwork (Vent/TS), keybindings, response times, etc all contribute to success on virtual battlefields
The only mathematics there is that player A, plays more then player B,C,D etc. Give them some time they will be = skill level.
Yet some people are hopeless as they play with their arrow keys and no mouse... like my wife.
I beg the differ. One trip to youtube will shine the light on that. you'll often see a skilled pvper solo 2-3 players. This could not happen if everyone had equal skill. So I would say the mathematics disprove that "everyone is equal" by a longshot
Knowledge of Terrain, teamwork (Vent/TS), keybindings, response times, etc all contribute to success on virtual battlefields
I'm guessing you didn't read the part about having a functioning brain as a prerequisite. Sorry, but if 2-3 players are getting beat by ONE player with gear/class balance being roughly equal, they do not possess a functioning brain.
Teamwork is not a part of individual skill, so it's a moot point.
Keybinding is something that anyone with a functioning brain can get right.
Knowledge of terrain? You gotta be kidding me if you actually believe this game will be even remotely complex enough for terrain to matter.
Why does gear have to be the defining aspect of your character? Shouldn't your character's skill and your skill be more important?
That's what most of the "hardcore pvper's" think, until they realize that just about anyone with a functioning brain possess about at the same skill level as they do and they really aren't that special at all.
I beg the differ. One trip to youtube will shine the light on that. you'll often see a skilled pvper solo 2-3 players. This could not happen if everyone had equal skill. So I would say the mathematics disprove that "everyone is equal" by a longshot
Knowledge of Terrain, teamwork (Vent/TS), keybindings, response times, etc all contribute to success on virtual battlefields
The only mathematics there is that player A, plays more then player B,C,D etc. Give them some time they will be = skill level.
Yet some people are hopeless as they play with their arrow keys and no mouse... like my wife.
I think this string of posts actually shows why I hate MMO's now (no its nothing personal about any of you).
Ultima Online was my first MMO... and when it launched there was no uber loot. People after they had a "ton of gold" would pay it for certain weapons of vanquishing or armor of invuln. I never really noticed much of a difference and just used the stuff my "mule" crafted for me.
Altho I would sell the above items obviously...
MMO's when they turned for "uber loot" became crap and went into a long swirling downward motion.. which they are still stuck in... yes that's my opinion... its also part of everything that is wrong with MMO's but that is a subject for another thread.
It was also quite common in UO to see someone take on more than 3 people and win. There weren't any "I win" buttons like DAoC had and/or idiot items that gave you some advantage (oh ya daoc had those too).
The only thing that combat came down to quite honestly... did you know how to play the game and how the game worked. The average player pve or pvp really quite often has no clue. Yet they can follow the dotted line which is what most players seem to do these days.
Like I said I don't have anything against players.. its how game development went.. and of course my opinion.
Why does gear have to be the defining aspect of your character? Shouldn't your character's skill and your skill be more important?
That's what most of the "hardcore pvper's" think, until they realize that just about anyone with a functioning brain possess about at the same skill level as they do and they really aren't that special at all.
I beg the differ. One trip to youtube will shine the light on that. you'll often see a skilled pvper solo 2-3 players. This could not happen if everyone had equal skill. So I would say the mathematics disprove that "everyone is equal" by a longshot
Knowledge of Terrain, teamwork (Vent/TS), keybindings, response times, etc all contribute to success on virtual battlefields
The only mathematics there is that player A, plays more then player B,C,D etc. Give them some time they will be = skill level.
Yet some people are hopeless as they play with their arrow keys and no mouse... like my wife.
I think this string of posts actually shows why I hate MMO's now (no its nothing personal about any of you).
Ultima Online was my first MMO... and when it launched there was no uber loot. People after they had a "ton of gold" would pay it for certain weapons of vanquishing or armor of invuln. I never really noticed much of a difference and just used the stuff my "mule" crafted for me.
Altho I would sell the above items obviously...
MMO's when they turned for "uber loot" became crap and went into a long swirling downward motion.. which they are still stuck in... yes that's my opinion... its also part of everything that is wrong with MMO's but that is a subject for another thread.
It was also quite common in UO to see someone take on more than 3 people and win. There weren't any "I win" buttons like DAoC had and/or idiot items that gave you some advantage (oh ya daoc had those too).
The only thing that combat came down to quite honestly... did you know how to play the game and how the game worked. The average player pve or pvp really quite often has no clue. Yet they can follow the dotted line which is what most players seem to do these days.
Like I said I don't have anything against players.. its how game development went.. and of course my opinion.
If that guy honestly thinks that there is no difference in skill levels between different people than he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.
Just look at Counter-Strike. If there was no difference in skill levels, everyone would have a 1.00 kdr. But, some people have high kdr and some have low, because there are different skill levels.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Is this the Counter-Strike forums? Why would anyone care about what kind of skill levels are involved in Counter-Strike on the Darkfall forums?
Here's an idea for you: For an "mmo" that looks as crude and unpolished as Darkfall, there is MINIMUM individual skill required to excel in this game.
Is this the Counter-Strike forums? Why would anyone care about what kind of skill levels are involved in Counter-Strike on the Darkfall forums?
Here's an idea for you: For an "mmo" that looks as crude and unpolished as Darkfall, there is MINIMUM individual skill required to excel in this game.
Personally I will play a 2d MMO in a minute (like starport) if it offers something fresh and new. I also was happy with EVE Classic graphics client and played UO recently.
I would hope gamers of today would value substance over graphics. An MMO should be able to render 100s of characters onscreen. I choose open world over fancy gloss and partitions (AoC)
On that thought and to be brief- why would Darkfall look 'unskilled'? I personally love realtime dodging. That alone brings so much to the table--->
1. Helps alleviate zerging. Players can no longer simply target call on Vent/TS and TAB to target. I've done this so much in mmorpgs and I want a change
2. Knowledge of Terrain. Use terrain for stealth. Use terrain to block arrows and missiles. Break LOS
3. Reduces the effect of stats on combat
speaking of Half Life 2 / source. Try that mod Age of Chivalry... I hope for that sort of combat and its often mention on DF boards
Why does gear have to be the defining aspect of your character? Shouldn't your character's skill and your skill be more important?
Skill more important.. yes absolutely. But that doesn't mean gear should be meaningless, it has to have it's importance.
What I find funny is wanting full loot AND meaningless loot. Can't see the point in it.
It's ingame; checkout the noob comic preview of the game. And of course missiles will strike terrain along with arrows. Projectiles will be actual entities in Darkfall- not just visual fx
Why does gear have to be the defining aspect of your character? Shouldn't your character's skill and your skill be more important?
That's what most of the "hardcore pvper's" think, until they realize that just about anyone with a functioning brain possess about at the same skill level as they do and they really aren't that special at all.
you dont play many FPS game's do you??? as you probably already know in most FPS every charicter is EXACTLY THE SAME, and yet some how some players seem to be much better than othere players