I heard the people held in Guantanamo never recieved a fair trial.
Truth to this? If so, I believe they should at least have one.
Criminals have trials.
Under the rules of civilized war, prisoners of war cannot be treated as criminals.
There can be military "tribunals" if the need arises of course, but tribunals don't beat around the bush, don't trump up fake charges, and don't release people just because someone forgot to read the guy his rights. The people in charge of a tribunal know what it's like on the battlefield and know what can happen in the heat of the moment. Probably more "fair" than the joke we call the court system.
Nuremberg......Jaochim Piper's execution for the Malmedy massacre, December, 1944.
Those executed for war crimes are not criminals?
Then what are they?
Aren't POWs simply captured soldiers/fighters?
You tell me.
December 17th, 1944, just outside the village of Malmedy, at the Baugnez crossroads, elements of Kampfgroup Piper, 1st SS Panzer Division, executed 86 men of Battery B, 285th Field Artillery Observation Battalion. After initially shooting the American prisoners the SS walked among the wounded and those showing signs of life and shot them point blank with their pistols.
we should shut down all the prisons and just shoot them all... problem solved . Just think of the money that would save ! They should have shot them instead of capture them in the first place, after they tortured them of course.
Of course, we shot German prisoners after Nuremburg because they did things like what you suggest.
Nice to know we are now on the same page as Hitler's SS.
And number six. Six executive orders bypassing legislature now in three days. This one is overturning the federal ban on abortions, including the Mexico City policy. This means not only are our tax dollars going to fund abortions here at home, but also abroad.
Great change you voters have brought to this nation.
Yes, we noticed you think highly of yourself^^
Honestly, I don't care about abortions. I am a male, I can't give birth to children. So what do I care that a woman who I do not know does with her boday anymore than someone does piercings or can announce a war whenever they want. A cop can go flying through a redlight and T-bone someone, but as long as he has lights on, that's cool.
Yes, I am thinking quite high of myself because I quoted my post to emphasize my point.
You are exactly the type of person who this administration is hoping for. You are ignorant to understand the issue at hand. And, I mean no offense by the ignorant comment. I mean it as simply a statement regarding the fact you are with a complete lack of knowledge of the subject matter.
The point was not with regards to abortion. It was regards to an executive order bypassing legislation.
You see, to keep it simple, we have three branches of government - executive, legislative, and judicial. The legislative branch passes the laws. Good ol' Barry simply bypassed this step by signing an executive order thereby bypassing elected representatives of the people to vote upon the proposed law/bill. He is, in effect, passing laws without legislative debate and votes - he is using executive orders for his agenda.
Now I will address your comment "can announce a war whenever they want". To make it quick and easily understandable - the President cannot declare war - only Congress can. Congress, including your democrats, voted and passed the declaration of war against Iraq, not President Bush.
As for your cop comment, I fail to see your point. Please expand your explanation.
Land of Oz....lets just kick or heals together and go home,Dekron you brain storming today or what.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Actually, I feel we mishandled this whole thing from the begining.
Once we had an Al Quada leader in custody, and had conducted a successful operation against Al Quada, we should have announced to the world that the operation was successfully because that Shiek guy (the Al Quada leader with the hairy back) was fully cooperating with us. Transfer him to a nice house in Florida like what Noriega got, a few pictures around the pool with a couple of gorgeous girls, just to show how much we appreciate his help. Do that with some of the rest of them too.
Make it look like the Al Quada guys were turning and giving us good information, then we can threaten to release them back in Pakistan. I'm sure Al Quada would give them a warm welcome back with open arms if they believed they had helped us. And just think of their families, the threat of doing this would definately make a target of the Al Quada guy's family. Sonny would have a helluva time living daddy's treason down.
If Al Quada didn't kill them outright as traitors, they'd never trust them again, unsure of whether they really did turn.
Anyway to get them killing each other, and distrusting each other, is a good thing.
Let them tear each other's hearts out......
Torture in a million dollar Florida house with a pool and a great view of the Gulf.....I can just hear world opinion crying over that one.
Actually, I feel we mishandled this whole thing from the begining. Once we had an Al Quada leader in custody, and had conducted a successful operation against Al Quada, we should have announced to the world that the operation was successfully because that Shiek guy (the Al Quada leader with the hairy back) was fully cooperating with us. Transfer him to a nice house in Florida like what Noriega got, a few pictures around the pool with a couple of gorgeous girls, just to show how much we appreciate his help. Do that with some of the rest of them too. Make it look like the Al Quada guys were turning and giving us good information, then we can threaten to release them back in Pakistan. I'm sure Al Quada would give them a warm welcome back with open arms if they believed they had helped us. And just think of their families, the threat of doing this would definately make a target of the Al Quada guy's family. Sonny would have a helluva time living daddy's treason down. If Al Quada didn't kill them outright as traitors, they'd never trust them again, unsure of whether they really did turn. Anyway to get them killing each other, and distrusting each other, is a good thing. Let them tear each other's hearts out...... Torture in a million dollar Florida house with a pool and a great view of the Gulf.....I can just hear world opinion crying over that one. Gitmo's a liability now......time for it to go.
Freed Gitmo Detainee Becomes al-Qaida Chief
Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:55 PM The deputy leader of al-Qaida’s branch in Yemen is a former Guantanamo detainee, according to a story in Friday’s New York Times.
The story identifies the leader as Said Ali al-Shihri, a militant suspected of involvement in a deadly bombing of the United States Embassy in Yemen’s capital, Sana, in September.
He was released from Guantanamo and sent to Saudi Arabia in 2007, according to the Times. There he passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with al-Qaida in Yemen.
His status was announced in an Internet statement by the militant group and was confirmed by an American counterterrorism official.
Funny thing is im with you on the Florida thing shave that back tho...hair is like a sponge, it collects every thing....
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Actually, I feel we mishandled this whole thing from the begining. Once we had an Al Quada leader in custody, and had conducted a successful operation against Al Quada, we should have announced to the world that the operation was successfully because that Shiek guy (the Al Quada leader with the hairy back) was fully cooperating with us. Transfer him to a nice house in Florida like what Noriega got, a few pictures around the pool with a couple of gorgeous girls, just to show how much we appreciate his help. Do that with some of the rest of them too. Make it look like the Al Quada guys were turning and giving us good information, then we can threaten to release them back in Pakistan. I'm sure Al Quada would give them a warm welcome back with open arms if they believed they had helped us. And just think of their families, the threat of doing this would definately make a target of the Al Quada guy's family. Sonny would have a helluva time living daddy's treason down. If Al Quada didn't kill them outright as traitors, they'd never trust them again, unsure of whether they really did turn. Anyway to get them killing each other, and distrusting each other, is a good thing. Let them tear each other's hearts out...... Torture in a million dollar Florida house with a pool and a great view of the Gulf.....I can just hear world opinion crying over that one. Gitmo's a liability now......time for it to go.
Freed Gitmo Detainee Becomes al-Qaida Chief
Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:55 PM The deputy leader of al-Qaida’s branch in Yemen is a former Guantanamo detainee, according to a story in Friday’s New York Times.
The story identifies the leader as Said Ali al-Shihri, a militant suspected of involvement in a deadly bombing of the United States Embassy in Yemen’s capital, Sana, in September.
He was released from Guantanamo and sent to Saudi Arabia in 2007, according to the Times. There he passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with al-Qaida in Yemen.
His status was announced in an Internet statement by the militant group and was confirmed by an American counterterrorism official.
Funny thing is im with you on the Florida thing shave that back tho...hair is like a sponge, it collects every thing....
Yea, we failed to show our appreciation for his efforts in aiding our campaign against Al Quada before we released him.....
Actually, I feel we mishandled this whole thing from the begining. Once we had an Al Quada leader in custody, and had conducted a successful operation against Al Quada, we should have announced to the world that the operation was successfully because that Shiek guy (the Al Quada leader with the hairy back) was fully cooperating with us. Transfer him to a nice house in Florida like what Noriega got, a few pictures around the pool with a couple of gorgeous girls, just to show how much we appreciate his help. Do that with some of the rest of them too. Make it look like the Al Quada guys were turning and giving us good information, then we can threaten to release them back in Pakistan. I'm sure Al Quada would give them a warm welcome back with open arms if they believed they had helped us. And just think of their families, the threat of doing this would definately make a target of the Al Quada guy's family. Sonny would have a helluva time living daddy's treason down. If Al Quada didn't kill them outright as traitors, they'd never trust them again, unsure of whether they really did turn. Anyway to get them killing each other, and distrusting each other, is a good thing. Let them tear each other's hearts out...... Torture in a million dollar Florida house with a pool and a great view of the Gulf.....I can just hear world opinion crying over that one. Gitmo's a liability now......time for it to go.
Freed Gitmo Detainee Becomes al-Qaida Chief
Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:55 PM The deputy leader of al-Qaida’s branch in Yemen is a former Guantanamo detainee, according to a story in Friday’s New York Times.
The story identifies the leader as Said Ali al-Shihri, a militant suspected of involvement in a deadly bombing of the United States Embassy in Yemen’s capital, Sana, in September.
He was released from Guantanamo and sent to Saudi Arabia in 2007, according to the Times. There he passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with al-Qaida in Yemen.
His status was announced in an Internet statement by the militant group and was confirmed by an American counterterrorism official.
Funny thing is im with you on the Florida thing shave that back tho...hair is like a sponge, it collects every thing....
Yea, we failed to show our appreciation for his efforts in aiding our campaign against Al Quada before we released him.....
That was quick..
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Identify one Hamas leader, follow him around. When he goes to a meeting, make sure every other Hamas member at the meeting dies shortly thereafter. First time it happens they think he's lucky, second time they begin wondering, maybe the third time they begining turning their organization over looking for the Israeli agent that recruited him......
I love insurgent organizations that can't trust their own members cause they're not really sure who's really working for whom......a padded bank account here, a misplaced deposit slip there, who knows what it may lead too?
To bad SOE can't incorporate ideas like this into The Agency. Instead we will be stuck with typical no brainer MMORPG fare of "kill 10 of" and Fedex quests.
Yes, I am thinking quite high of myself because I quoted my post to emphasize my point. You are exactly the type of person who this administration is hoping for. You are ignorant to understand the issue at hand. And, I mean no offense by the ignorant comment. I mean it as simply a statement regarding the fact you are with a complete lack of knowledge of the subject matter. The point was not with regards to abortion. It was regards to an executive order bypassing legislation. You see, to keep it simple, we have three branches of government - executive, legislative, and judicial. The legislative branch passes the laws. Good ol' Barry simply bypassed this step by signing an executive order thereby bypassing elected representatives of the people to vote upon the proposed law/bill. He is, in effect, passing laws without legislative debate and votes - he is using executive orders for his agenda. Now I will address your comment "can announce a war whenever they want". To make it quick and easily understandable - the President cannot declare war - only Congress can. Congress, including your democrats, voted and passed the declaration of war against Iraq, not President Bush. As for your cop comment, I fail to see your point. Please expand your explanation.
No offense taken.
Frankly, if I could survive eight years of a moron, I'm sure I could survive anything else after that. I'm not worried one bit lol. Seems as though there were a lot of us that voted for ol' Barry... I guess now the only ones who'll have to move are Rush and his friends. They now have no more direct access to the White House which is fine with me. They've milked this country dry while the Enrons sat down with Shotgun Dick and made a great energy policy. Flash forward a few years, whoops.. $4/gallon gas.
I don't think most of America is as "Chicken Little" as you are, no offense. We are more optimistic than ever People trust Obama a heck of a lot more than an oil man.
I bet this has just gotta sting, don't it? Don't worry, you'll get used to it. You've got plenty of time.
I heard the people held in Guantanamo never recieved a fair trial. Truth to this? If so, I believe they should at least have one.
Fair trial? These are not criminals, they are war prisoners. They are also not US citizens, and therefore, not entitled to due process under the US Constitution.
Is this how you would like other countries to treat U.S. citizens too?
What goes around, comes around. No one is exempt.
Yeah, if US citizens are going around blowing up other country's buildings, not only would I not have a problem with them using vigorous interrogation methods, I would expect them to.
Originally posted by popinjay I bet this has just gotta sting, don't it? Don't worry, you'll get used to it. You've got plenty of time.
You still don't get it, do you? My dream candidate could have been in the white house (which, by the way, was not McCain) and if they pulled the same shit, I would react the same way. Check the Presidential duties outlawed in the U.S. Constitution. He is already on the line of overstepping his bounds.
It's rather sad that you've simply handed your life over to him and believe he, just as crooked as any politician, will do what is in your best interest.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts aboslutely.
Obama is not letting terrorists onto the streets of the US or anyplace else, lol. Each case is meticulously reviewed by the sharpest legal minds in the government before anyone has been released. If anything, they've been OVERcautious, holding people on extremely flimsy evidence. I don't mind that, but at the end of the day, if you can't prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, then you have to let people go. It's only human and in keeping with democracy.
The fact that the US let people go was because they had none of this stuff we call "evidence." Many of the people in Gitmo and Abu Gharib were there because of the cash "snitch" programs we put out in Iraq and elsewhere. We offered people sums of money past what most of them would make in a year and then there was no shortage of names. Don't like your neighbor? Tell the US he's a terrorist. Want your neighbor's shop (whats left of it) out of business? Go collect a reward. This was proven plenty of times, and many more times the US had to let people go even before they got to these detention camps.
This order effectively is a beginning to fix the wrongs the US has inflicted since 9/11, thats all. It really is time to close this bad chapter in history and look to the future. Terrorists aren't going to be a big factor anymore in the US. They had a expertly planned sneak attack due to the US's lazy intelligence community. This "I'd rather fight them over there" argument is silly. Weve done more to create terrorists since 9/11 than to get rid of them.
Let's let Rush and those idiots stay sore. There's no pleasing them really. I for one look forward to a different, more responsible government as is being shown just in the first week.
President Barry has issued five executive orders within two days of taking office. This unprecendented act is showing Barry's complete disregard for the legislative process. Executive orders should be used as a last resort - not a bypass of Congress and the entire legislative branch. Is this the change he promised? A quasi-dictatorship without the representation of the people? He is writing orders for his agenda. Where does it stop? For those staunch supporters, what do you think of this? Do you blindly follow him so that you feel he can now make decisions for you on what is and is not right in your life? Where do you draw the line? www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/executive_orders/
Yes, I am quoting my own post for emphasis.
And number six. Six executive orders bypassing legislature now in three days. This one is overturning the federal ban on abortions, including the Mexico City policy. This means not only are our tax dollars going to fund abortions here at home, but also abroad.
Great change you voters have brought to this nation.
They overturn Executive orders that bypassed legislation brought on by George W. Bush. Also its not for tax dollars funding abortion directly its to fund humanitarian add for organizations that support and uses and fund abortion. Learn to not go directly to a conspiracy theory right ahead might help you when you finally see the psychologist.
Originally posted by popinjay I bet this has just gotta sting, don't it? Don't worry, you'll get used to it. You've got plenty of time.
You still don't get it, do you? My dream candidate could have been in the white house (which, by the way, was not McCain) and if they pulled the same shit, I would react the same way. Check the Presidential duties outlawed in the U.S. Constitution. He is already on the line of overstepping his bounds.
It's rather sad that you've simply handed your life over to him and believe he, just as crooked as any politician, will do what is in your best interest.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts aboslutely.
He aint over stepping his bounds, where you read that Executive orders should be a last step is very interesting. As most constitional scolars will agree that Executive orders is a consitional right. (yes i know that isnt spelled right)
"U.S. Presidents have issued executive orders since 1789. Although there is no Constitutional provision or statute that explicitly permits executive orders, there is a vague grant of "executive power" given in Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution and the statement "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed" in Article II,Section 3. Most executive orders are orders issued by the President to US executive officers to help direct their operation, the consequence of failing to comply being removal from office."
My question is: What message is President Obama sending out to the Islamic terrorists throughout the world by shutting down Guantanamo Bay?
None. They are to be transferred to military prisons (Fort Leavenworth, San Diego, or a navy brig in, I believe, South Carolina) for continued detention.
Based on the controversy surrounding Gitmo detention center and treatment of prisoners, he is sending the rest of the world a message that American treatment of prisoners will change. Gitmo is a liability, the closing of the detention facility is merely symbolic. By the way, Gitmo will remain a US military installation, the base itself is not closing.
Enemy combatants have been held in captivity on US soil before in accordance with international law for indefinate periods of time (German internees in WW 2 especially). That is not a problem in the eyes of the international community. Holding them outside the United States to justify treatment like waterboarding is a problem. You should note that even the FBI disagreed with the treatment of prisoners held at Gitmo, and walked away from those interrogations. Information obtained using torture is unreliable.
Trials are not necessary for enemy combatants, never have been, never will be, unless war crimes have been committed. It is entirely justifiable to hold enemy combatants for as long as the conflict continues.
My question is: What message is President Obama sending out to the Islamic terrorists throughout the world by shutting down Guantanamo Bay?
This message isn't for the terrorists. None of this is even about the "terrorists". Conspiracy people and Rush fanbois always want to make it out as about the terrorists. They are small ants in the big picture; the larger issue doesn't even involve them.
This message is for the world at large, that we (US) will no longer do business like some small, petty corrupt governments where we do what we please and the world be damned. It is more about what we are saying to our neighbors in that community and how we regain trust as human and true to our word.
Gitmo and Abu Gharib closings are so we can symbolicly show we are "shutting" down that Bush way of medieval thinking, or whoever was feeding him that crap that this was ok for a civilized world leading country to do.
The message was for the world. We have a different message for Bin Laden altogether.
Originally posted by popinjay Originally posted by bojinxMy question is: What message is President Obama sending out to the Islamic terrorists throughout the world by shutting down Guantanamo Bay?
This message isn't for the terrorists. None of this is even about the "terrorists". Conspiracy people and Rush fanbois always want to make it out as about the terrorists. They are small ants in the big picture; the larger issue doesn't even involve them.
This message is for the world at large, that we (US) will no longer do business like some small, petty corrupt governments where we do what we please and the world be damned. It is more about what we are saying to our neighbors in that community and how we regain trust as human and true to our word.
Gitmo and Abu Gharib closings are so we can symbolicly show we are "shutting" down that Bush way of medieval thinking, or whoever was feeding him that crap that this was ok for a civilized world leading country to do.
The message was for the world. We have a different message for Bin Laden altogether.
Yep, its to show we're above such thinking. I don't think water boarding and torture are very civilized ways of doing business. People who interrogate (and not torture) feel that doing it in such a civilized way have much more benefits.
I really don't see why people seem to be so afraid of terrorists, its just another red scare now. If your worried about another 9/11 then worry about internal security, not a prison in Cuba.
My question is: What message is President Obama sending out to the Islamic terrorists throughout the world by shutting down Guantanamo Bay?
This message isn't for the terrorists. None of this is even about the "terrorists". Conspiracy people and Rush fanbois always want to make it out as about the terrorists. They are small ants in the big picture; the larger issue doesn't even involve them.
This message is for the world at large, that we (US) will no longer do business like some small, petty corrupt governments where we do what we please and the world be damned. It is more about what we are saying to our neighbors in that community and how we regain trust as human and true to our word.
Gitmo and Abu Gharib closings are so we can symbolicly show we are "shutting" down that Bush way of medieval thinking, or whoever was feeding him that crap that this was ok for a civilized world leading country to do.
The message was for the world. We have a different message for Bin Laden altogether.
Yep, its to show we're above such thinking. I don't think water boarding and torture are very civilized ways of doing business. People who interrogate (and not torture) feel that doing it in such a civilized way have much more benefits.
I really don't see why people seem to be so afraid of terrorists, its just another red scare now. If your worried about another 9/11 then worry about internal security, not a prison in Cuba.
Originally posted by Illison They overturn Executive orders that bypassed legislation brought on by George W. Bush. Also its not for tax dollars funding abortion directly its to fund humanitarian add for organizations that support and uses and fund abortion. Learn to not go directly to a conspiracy theory right ahead might help you when you finally see the psychologist.
Wow, you are ill-informed. I love how you go directly to conspiracy theory when what I posted can be read directly in the order. Yes, the tax dollars do go to agencies and organizations to assist in the costs of the procedures, hence the funding of abortion with tax dollars.
If your defense is "Bush used EOs, then why shouldn't Obama?" Well, wasn't that Obama's campaign? Change in Washington? No more of the same? However, you hit a nice little nail on the head - legislation passed by the Bush administration. Legislation, not EOs. Yet, in 3 days, Barry has written 6, and he isn't done.
What you sheep fail to realize is he is dishing outhis own agenda via EOs while bypassing legislation. How is that a conspiracy theory? Am I imagining this? Is my tinfoil hat somehow creating a seperate reality?
And there is constant debate whether EOs are a constituional right. Whether they are, or are not, they are for last resorts. Take a basic civics class, this is how they are viewed, otherwise, we would have a complete dictatorship by the President issuing unchallengeable EOs.
Originally posted by popinjay We have a different message for Bin Laden altogether.
Yes, we do. From the Obama administration to Osama: "We surrender."
Oh, and let's ask the very possible hypothetical question. A bomb is known to be in your neighborhood. It could be a nuke or it could be a dirty bomb. You have the one is custody who knows where to find it. How do you get the information from him?
Under the Obama administration, they would tickle his feet and serve him a nice dinner, ask politely, then let him go when he refuses.
This is a real threat, is is no longer impossible, or improbable. With open borders under Obama, such a task is quite easy.
More on the way al Qaeda thanks to your friend Obama...
Ever see the movie "Red Dawn" son?
Its just a movie, but a good one. It shows what would happen if the US got invaded by Russians and Cubans trying to impose their way of life here. Well, after they saw their parents get killed, some high school kids got together and made a group called "Wolverines" after their high school mascot. They systematically then went around blowing up Russian and Cuban equipment and troops, then would run into the mountains to hide. They did this for a bit, until they finally all died out. (no other people around to replenish the movement from outside the country)
Well, its a movie of course. But it showed what some kids would probably do if they saw their parents shot, sisters raped and burned up, evidence planted and all sorts of stuff. Normal high school kids turned into very good killers. Americans loved this movie, it got great press because it showed the good ol' "American fighting spirit" of never surrender the homeland.
The last 6 yrs, we've been bombing the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan based on shitty intel and a lynch mob mentality. We've made LOTS of booboos while doing it too. We've killed innocent men, women and children; almost whole entire families like that one where we bombed some wedding, said "oops" and called it "collateral damage" or blame it on terrorists hiding behind them, even though we dropped the bombs. Weve blown up Canadians, Americans and I think some Poles as well on "oopsies". But the key ones are the relatives we've killed of innocent Iraqis.
How do you think you'd react if a plane fell on your house right now? You'd want to sue the bastards who owned it at the very least, right? You wouldn't say "Its ok, its just a mistake and accidents happen. No hard feelings." Now imagine a bomb falling on your house and you know exactly WHO did it, while your newborn baby had nothing to do with it but he/she's in millions of bits. Looks different now, right? And don't give me "What about 9/11".... I don't recall a 2 year old baby flying a jumbo jet into the towers. But its ok to do that and maybe hit a terrorist? Two wrongs don't make a right.
Your buddy Bush has created more terrorists from torture, bad bombing missions, bad intel, and bad leadership than Obama could ever make in the next eight years. Bush had a six year head start and look at Iraq now, look at Pakistan and Afghanistan now. Worse than when we went in there.
Its time to stop the madness and get out of there. Gitmo is a good start.
BEIRUT: The emergence of a former Guantánamo Bay detainee as the deputy leader of Al Qaeda's Yemeni branch has underscored the potential complications in carrying out the executive order that President Barack Obama signed that the detention center be shut down within a year. The militant, Said Ali al-Shihri, is suspected of involvement in a deadly bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Yemen's capital, Sana, in September. He was released to Saudi Arabia in 2007 and passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with Al Qaeda in Yemen. His status was announced in an Internet statement by the militant group and was confirmed by a U.S. counterterrorism official. "They're one and the same guy," said the official, who insisted on anonymity because he was discussing an intelligence analysis. "He returned to Saudi Arabia in 2007, but his movements to Yemen remain unclear." /clap More on the way al Qaeda thanks to your friend Obama...
WOW, just WOW.......
You think President Obama is responsible for the release of this prisoner in 2007?
And you promise more thanks from al Qaeda to "friend Obama" for actions like this?
Originally posted by xxvicexx Son?I saw Red Dawn in a movie theater when it was released. By the way you read your mom is probably as old if not younger then I am. You sure as hell where not around.
As for the rest of what you put-- Time you grew up and left the classroom. I mean really..its just naive and flppantly childish at face value.
..and Save the BS about caring about those you want to abandon., ignore, and leave to the whims of Terrorists. Its disgusting.
Obama just did what you bashed Bush for. SO lets see how much weight your words really hold. Are you a lip flapping hypocrite? We shall see...
"Son" is a saying where I'm from men sometimes use towards one another. I am not implying you, or anyone on the boards are my actual son, lol. Maybe you're a female? In which case, I apologize. Sorry you got confused as I saw the (?) at the end. And leave the classroom? Hmm.. the way you read, you sound like you are typing your material from a backyard fallout shelter eating a can of baked beans as you think stuff up, lol. How's the shortwave working... good reception down there to get Rush?^^
Yep, I saw that today about the bombing. We got supposedly 7 terrorists or so along with 15 others. Just as Bush authorized this collateral damage, neither should Obama. But don't get confused: Obama did not go into office and say he would stop all actions at the Taliban or Al Qaeda, and neither did I, so I believe you are making your own mental fantasies there. Obama said he will continue to vigorously pursue the terrorists. As a matter of fact, he wanted to shift the emphasis AWAY from Iraq, a sovereign country we invaded when no one from Iraq was involved in the 9/11 hijackings, to a place where Bush and friends already knew there was a large concentration of terrorists harboring people like Bin Laden. The fact that Bush was so friendly with Mushariff (paying him tons of hushup money every year) let Al Qaeda and the Taliban reconstitute while Bush was playing pilot and looking towards his great historical "legacy".
Saving people from terrorists by "abandoning" them? Err.. sorry Charlie. Because there were no real terrorists in Iraq before we got there (they were scared to death of Saddam), we had to bring our own with us. We went to a war on terror missing the terrorists, lol. The people in Iraq had one "terrorist", which btw, your friend Rummy was sure glad to press flesh with on more than one occassion as a US government official in the past. You mean we didn't KNOW Saddam was doing that stuff? Man, that must have been a surprise, even after all the CIA info was sent for decades saying he was because we set him up to do it all.
Again, time for this type of stuff to come to light and more will surface. Gitmo is down, one less headache and far less money and resources to keep that obsolete place running. A base in Cuba in today's world has no practical value at all. I'm surprised it too this long to shut the joint down. I look forward to actually maybe even seeing Cuba one day after our government allows it in the future, so I don't have to hear this crazy fear talk on how dangerous communism is anymore. I guess its good for business to keep scaring morons into thinking barbarians are at the gate, but more sane and rational people aren't fooled at that "Here comes the Horde" rhetoric.
This is a great first step to a lot of that type of nonsense going away.
Comments
Criminals have trials.
Under the rules of civilized war, prisoners of war cannot be treated as criminals.
There can be military "tribunals" if the need arises of course, but tribunals don't beat around the bush, don't trump up fake charges, and don't release people just because someone forgot to read the guy his rights. The people in charge of a tribunal know what it's like on the battlefield and know what can happen in the heat of the moment. Probably more "fair" than the joke we call the court system.
Nuremberg......Jaochim Piper's execution for the Malmedy massacre, December, 1944.
Those executed for war crimes are not criminals?
Then what are they?
Aren't POWs simply captured soldiers/fighters?
You tell me.
December 17th, 1944, just outside the village of Malmedy, at the Baugnez crossroads, elements of Kampfgroup Piper, 1st SS Panzer Division, executed 86 men of Battery B, 285th Field Artillery Observation Battalion. After initially shooting the American prisoners the SS walked among the wounded and those showing signs of life and shot them point blank with their pistols.
Now, you tell me what POWs are?
Can they be tried and executed for war crimes?
And if found guilty, are they POWs, or criminals?
Of course, we shot German prisoners after Nuremburg because they did things like what you suggest.
Nice to know we are now on the same page as Hitler's SS.
I guess Hitler is one of the good guys now.......
Funny how history works that way.
Yes, we noticed you think highly of yourself^^
Honestly, I don't care about abortions. I am a male, I can't give birth to children. So what do I care that a woman who I do not know does with her boday anymore than someone does piercings or can announce a war whenever they want. A cop can go flying through a redlight and T-bone someone, but as long as he has lights on, that's cool.
Yes, I am thinking quite high of myself because I quoted my post to emphasize my point.
You are exactly the type of person who this administration is hoping for. You are ignorant to understand the issue at hand. And, I mean no offense by the ignorant comment. I mean it as simply a statement regarding the fact you are with a complete lack of knowledge of the subject matter.
The point was not with regards to abortion. It was regards to an executive order bypassing legislation.
You see, to keep it simple, we have three branches of government - executive, legislative, and judicial. The legislative branch passes the laws. Good ol' Barry simply bypassed this step by signing an executive order thereby bypassing elected representatives of the people to vote upon the proposed law/bill. He is, in effect, passing laws without legislative debate and votes - he is using executive orders for his agenda.
Now I will address your comment "can announce a war whenever they want". To make it quick and easily understandable - the President cannot declare war - only Congress can. Congress, including your democrats, voted and passed the declaration of war against Iraq, not President Bush.
As for your cop comment, I fail to see your point. Please expand your explanation.
Land of Oz....lets just kick or heals together and go home,Dekron you brain storming today or what.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Actually, I feel we mishandled this whole thing from the begining.
Once we had an Al Quada leader in custody, and had conducted a successful operation against Al Quada, we should have announced to the world that the operation was successfully because that Shiek guy (the Al Quada leader with the hairy back) was fully cooperating with us. Transfer him to a nice house in Florida like what Noriega got, a few pictures around the pool with a couple of gorgeous girls, just to show how much we appreciate his help. Do that with some of the rest of them too.
Make it look like the Al Quada guys were turning and giving us good information, then we can threaten to release them back in Pakistan. I'm sure Al Quada would give them a warm welcome back with open arms if they believed they had helped us. And just think of their families, the threat of doing this would definately make a target of the Al Quada guy's family. Sonny would have a helluva time living daddy's treason down.
If Al Quada didn't kill them outright as traitors, they'd never trust them again, unsure of whether they really did turn.
Anyway to get them killing each other, and distrusting each other, is a good thing.
Let them tear each other's hearts out......
Torture in a million dollar Florida house with a pool and a great view of the Gulf.....I can just hear world opinion crying over that one.
Gitmo's a liability now......time for it to go.
Freed Gitmo Detainee Becomes al-Qaida Chief
Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:55 PM The deputy leader of al-Qaida’s branch in Yemen is a former Guantanamo detainee, according to a story in Friday’s New York Times.
The story identifies the leader as Said Ali al-Shihri, a militant suspected of involvement in a deadly bombing of the United States Embassy in Yemen’s capital, Sana, in September.
He was released from Guantanamo and sent to Saudi Arabia in 2007, according to the Times. There he passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with al-Qaida in Yemen.
His status was announced in an Internet statement by the militant group and was confirmed by an American counterterrorism official.
Funny thing is im with you on the Florida thing
shave that back tho...hair is like a sponge, it collects every thing....
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Freed Gitmo Detainee Becomes al-Qaida Chief
Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:55 PM The deputy leader of al-Qaida’s branch in Yemen is a former Guantanamo detainee, according to a story in Friday’s New York Times.
The story identifies the leader as Said Ali al-Shihri, a militant suspected of involvement in a deadly bombing of the United States Embassy in Yemen’s capital, Sana, in September.
He was released from Guantanamo and sent to Saudi Arabia in 2007, according to the Times. There he passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with al-Qaida in Yemen.
His status was announced in an Internet statement by the militant group and was confirmed by an American counterterrorism official.
Funny thing is im with you on the Florida thing
shave that back tho...hair is like a sponge, it collects every thing....
Yea, we failed to show our appreciation for his efforts in aiding our campaign against Al Quada before we released him.....
Freed Gitmo Detainee Becomes al-Qaida Chief
Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:55 PM The deputy leader of al-Qaida’s branch in Yemen is a former Guantanamo detainee, according to a story in Friday’s New York Times.
The story identifies the leader as Said Ali al-Shihri, a militant suspected of involvement in a deadly bombing of the United States Embassy in Yemen’s capital, Sana, in September.
He was released from Guantanamo and sent to Saudi Arabia in 2007, according to the Times. There he passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with al-Qaida in Yemen.
His status was announced in an Internet statement by the militant group and was confirmed by an American counterterrorism official.
Funny thing is im with you on the Florida thing
shave that back tho...hair is like a sponge, it collects every thing....
Yea, we failed to show our appreciation for his efforts in aiding our campaign against Al Quada before we released him.....
That was quick..
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
It's kinda like Israel with Hamas.....
Identify one Hamas leader, follow him around. When he goes to a meeting, make sure every other Hamas member at the meeting dies shortly thereafter. First time it happens they think he's lucky, second time they begin wondering, maybe the third time they begining turning their organization over looking for the Israeli agent that recruited him......
I love insurgent organizations that can't trust their own members cause they're not really sure who's really working for whom......a padded bank account here, a misplaced deposit slip there, who knows what it may lead too?
To bad SOE can't incorporate ideas like this into The Agency. Instead we will be stuck with typical no brainer MMORPG fare of "kill 10 of" and Fedex quests.
No offense taken.
Frankly, if I could survive eight years of a moron, I'm sure I could survive anything else after that. I'm not worried one bit lol. Seems as though there were a lot of us that voted for ol' Barry... I guess now the only ones who'll have to move are Rush and his friends. They now have no more direct access to the White House which is fine with me. They've milked this country dry while the Enrons sat down with Shotgun Dick and made a great energy policy. Flash forward a few years, whoops.. $4/gallon gas.
I don't think most of America is as "Chicken Little" as you are, no offense. We are more optimistic than ever
People trust Obama a heck of a lot more than an oil man.
I bet this has just gotta sting, don't it? Don't worry, you'll get used to it. You've got plenty of time.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Type miserable failure in Yahoo search
search.yahoo.com/
Fair trial? These are not criminals, they are war prisoners. They are also not US citizens, and therefore, not entitled to due process under the US Constitution.
Is this how you would like other countries to treat U.S. citizens too?
What goes around, comes around. No one is exempt.
Yeah, if US citizens are going around blowing up other country's buildings, not only would I not have a problem with them using vigorous interrogation methods, I would expect them to.
You still don't get it, do you? My dream candidate could have been in the white house (which, by the way, was not McCain) and if they pulled the same shit, I would react the same way. Check the Presidential duties outlawed in the U.S. Constitution. He is already on the line of overstepping his bounds.
It's rather sad that you've simply handed your life over to him and believe he, just as crooked as any politician, will do what is in your best interest.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts aboslutely.
I wonder why some people going apenuts over this.
Obama is not letting terrorists onto the streets of the US or anyplace else, lol. Each case is meticulously reviewed by the sharpest legal minds in the government before anyone has been released. If anything, they've been OVERcautious, holding people on extremely flimsy evidence. I don't mind that, but at the end of the day, if you can't prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, then you have to let people go. It's only human and in keeping with democracy.
The fact that the US let people go was because they had none of this stuff we call "evidence." Many of the people in Gitmo and Abu Gharib were there because of the cash "snitch" programs we put out in Iraq and elsewhere. We offered people sums of money past what most of them would make in a year and then there was no shortage of names. Don't like your neighbor? Tell the US he's a terrorist. Want your neighbor's shop (whats left of it) out of business? Go collect a reward. This was proven plenty of times, and many more times the US had to let people go even before they got to these detention camps.
This order effectively is a beginning to fix the wrongs the US has inflicted since 9/11, thats all. It really is time to close this bad chapter in history and look to the future. Terrorists aren't going to be a big factor anymore in the US. They had a expertly planned sneak attack due to the US's lazy intelligence community. This "I'd rather fight them over there" argument is silly. Weve done more to create terrorists since 9/11 than to get rid of them.
Let's let Rush and those idiots stay sore. There's no pleasing them really. I for one look forward to a different, more responsible government as is being shown just in the first week.
"TO MICHAEL!"
My question is: What message is President Obama sending out to the Islamic terrorists throughout the world by shutting down Guantanamo Bay?
Yes, I am quoting my own post for emphasis.
And number six. Six executive orders bypassing legislature now in three days. This one is overturning the federal ban on abortions, including the Mexico City policy. This means not only are our tax dollars going to fund abortions here at home, but also abroad.
Great change you voters have brought to this nation.
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_abortion_ban
They overturn Executive orders that bypassed legislation brought on by George W. Bush. Also its not for tax dollars funding abortion directly its to fund humanitarian add for organizations that support and uses and fund abortion. Learn to not go directly to a conspiracy theory right ahead might help you when you finally see the psychologist.
You still don't get it, do you? My dream candidate could have been in the white house (which, by the way, was not McCain) and if they pulled the same shit, I would react the same way. Check the Presidential duties outlawed in the U.S. Constitution. He is already on the line of overstepping his bounds.
It's rather sad that you've simply handed your life over to him and believe he, just as crooked as any politician, will do what is in your best interest.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts aboslutely.
He aint over stepping his bounds, where you read that Executive orders should be a last step is very interesting. As most constitional scolars will agree that Executive orders is a consitional right. (yes i know that isnt spelled right)
"U.S. Presidents have issued executive orders since 1789. Although there is no Constitutional provision or statute that explicitly permits executive orders, there is a vague grant of "executive power" given in Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution and the statement "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed" in Article II,Section 3. Most executive orders are orders issued by the President to US executive officers to help direct their operation, the consequence of failing to comply being removal from office."
None. They are to be transferred to military prisons (Fort Leavenworth, San Diego, or a navy brig in, I believe, South Carolina) for continued detention.
Based on the controversy surrounding Gitmo detention center and treatment of prisoners, he is sending the rest of the world a message that American treatment of prisoners will change. Gitmo is a liability, the closing of the detention facility is merely symbolic. By the way, Gitmo will remain a US military installation, the base itself is not closing.
Enemy combatants have been held in captivity on US soil before in accordance with international law for indefinate periods of time (German internees in WW 2 especially). That is not a problem in the eyes of the international community. Holding them outside the United States to justify treatment like waterboarding is a problem. You should note that even the FBI disagreed with the treatment of prisoners held at Gitmo, and walked away from those interrogations. Information obtained using torture is unreliable.
Trials are not necessary for enemy combatants, never have been, never will be, unless war crimes have been committed. It is entirely justifiable to hold enemy combatants for as long as the conflict continues.
This message isn't for the terrorists. None of this is even about the "terrorists". Conspiracy people and Rush fanbois always want to make it out as about the terrorists. They are small ants in the big picture; the larger issue doesn't even involve them.
This message is for the world at large, that we (US) will no longer do business like some small, petty corrupt governments where we do what we please and the world be damned. It is more about what we are saying to our neighbors in that community and how we regain trust as human and true to our word.
Gitmo and Abu Gharib closings are so we can symbolicly show we are "shutting" down that Bush way of medieval thinking, or whoever was feeding him that crap that this was ok for a civilized world leading country to do.
The message was for the world. We have a different message for Bin Laden altogether.
"TO MICHAEL!"
This message isn't for the terrorists. None of this is even about the "terrorists". Conspiracy people and Rush fanbois always want to make it out as about the terrorists. They are small ants in the big picture; the larger issue doesn't even involve them.
This message is for the world at large, that we (US) will no longer do business like some small, petty corrupt governments where we do what we please and the world be damned. It is more about what we are saying to our neighbors in that community and how we regain trust as human and true to our word.
Gitmo and Abu Gharib closings are so we can symbolicly show we are "shutting" down that Bush way of medieval thinking, or whoever was feeding him that crap that this was ok for a civilized world leading country to do.
The message was for the world. We have a different message for Bin Laden altogether.
Yep, its to show we're above such thinking. I don't think water boarding and torture are very civilized ways of doing business. People who interrogate (and not torture) feel that doing it in such a civilized way have much more benefits.
I really don't see why people seem to be so afraid of terrorists, its just another red scare now. If your worried about another 9/11 then worry about internal security, not a prison in Cuba.
This message isn't for the terrorists. None of this is even about the "terrorists". Conspiracy people and Rush fanbois always want to make it out as about the terrorists. They are small ants in the big picture; the larger issue doesn't even involve them.
This message is for the world at large, that we (US) will no longer do business like some small, petty corrupt governments where we do what we please and the world be damned. It is more about what we are saying to our neighbors in that community and how we regain trust as human and true to our word.
Gitmo and Abu Gharib closings are so we can symbolicly show we are "shutting" down that Bush way of medieval thinking, or whoever was feeding him that crap that this was ok for a civilized world leading country to do.
The message was for the world. We have a different message for Bin Laden altogether.
Yep, its to show we're above such thinking. I don't think water boarding and torture are very civilized ways of doing business. People who interrogate (and not torture) feel that doing it in such a civilized way have much more benefits.
I really don't see why people seem to be so afraid of terrorists, its just another red scare now. If your worried about another 9/11 then worry about internal security, not a prison in Cuba.
QFT
Wow, you are ill-informed. I love how you go directly to conspiracy theory when what I posted can be read directly in the order. Yes, the tax dollars do go to agencies and organizations to assist in the costs of the procedures, hence the funding of abortion with tax dollars.
If your defense is "Bush used EOs, then why shouldn't Obama?" Well, wasn't that Obama's campaign? Change in Washington? No more of the same? However, you hit a nice little nail on the head - legislation passed by the Bush administration. Legislation, not EOs. Yet, in 3 days, Barry has written 6, and he isn't done.
What you sheep fail to realize is he is dishing outhis own agenda via EOs while bypassing legislation. How is that a conspiracy theory? Am I imagining this? Is my tinfoil hat somehow creating a seperate reality?
And there is constant debate whether EOs are a constituional right. Whether they are, or are not, they are for last resorts. Take a basic civics class, this is how they are viewed, otherwise, we would have a complete dictatorship by the President issuing unchallengeable EOs.
Yes, we do. From the Obama administration to Osama: "We surrender."
Oh, and let's ask the very possible hypothetical question. A bomb is known to be in your neighborhood. It could be a nuke or it could be a dirty bomb. You have the one is custody who knows where to find it. How do you get the information from him?
Under the Obama administration, they would tickle his feet and serve him a nice dinner, ask politely, then let him go when he refuses.
This is a real threat, is is no longer impossible, or improbable. With open borders under Obama, such a task is quite easy.
Ever see the movie "Red Dawn" son?
Its just a movie, but a good one. It shows what would happen if the US got invaded by Russians and Cubans trying to impose their way of life here. Well, after they saw their parents get killed, some high school kids got together and made a group called "Wolverines" after their high school mascot. They systematically then went around blowing up Russian and Cuban equipment and troops, then would run into the mountains to hide. They did this for a bit, until they finally all died out. (no other people around to replenish the movement from outside the country)
Well, its a movie of course. But it showed what some kids would probably do if they saw their parents shot, sisters raped and burned up, evidence planted and all sorts of stuff. Normal high school kids turned into very good killers. Americans loved this movie, it got great press because it showed the good ol' "American fighting spirit" of never surrender the homeland.
The last 6 yrs, we've been bombing the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan based on shitty intel and a lynch mob mentality. We've made LOTS of booboos while doing it too. We've killed innocent men, women and children; almost whole entire families like that one where we bombed some wedding, said "oops" and called it "collateral damage" or blame it on terrorists hiding behind them, even though we dropped the bombs. Weve blown up Canadians, Americans and I think some Poles as well on "oopsies". But the key ones are the relatives we've killed of innocent Iraqis.
How do you think you'd react if a plane fell on your house right now? You'd want to sue the bastards who owned it at the very least, right? You wouldn't say "Its ok, its just a mistake and accidents happen. No hard feelings." Now imagine a bomb falling on your house and you know exactly WHO did it, while your newborn baby had nothing to do with it but he/she's in millions of bits. Looks different now, right? And don't give me "What about 9/11".... I don't recall a 2 year old baby flying a jumbo jet into the towers. But its ok to do that and maybe hit a terrorist? Two wrongs don't make a right.
Your buddy Bush has created more terrorists from torture, bad bombing missions, bad intel, and bad leadership than Obama could ever make in the next eight years. Bush had a six year head start and look at Iraq now, look at Pakistan and Afghanistan now. Worse than when we went in there.
Its time to stop the madness and get out of there. Gitmo is a good start.
"TO MICHAEL!"
WOW, just WOW.......
You think President Obama is responsible for the release of this prisoner in 2007?
And you promise more thanks from al Qaeda to "friend Obama" for actions like this?
WOW, just WOW.......
"Son" is a saying where I'm from men sometimes use towards one another. I am not implying you, or anyone on the boards are my actual son, lol. Maybe you're a female? In which case, I apologize. Sorry you got confused as I saw the (?) at the end. And leave the classroom? Hmm.. the way you read, you sound like you are typing your material from a backyard fallout shelter eating a can of baked beans as you think stuff up, lol. How's the shortwave working... good reception down there to get Rush?^^
Yep, I saw that today about the bombing. We got supposedly 7 terrorists or so along with 15 others. Just as Bush authorized this collateral damage, neither should Obama. But don't get confused: Obama did not go into office and say he would stop all actions at the Taliban or Al Qaeda, and neither did I, so I believe you are making your own mental fantasies there. Obama said he will continue to vigorously pursue the terrorists. As a matter of fact, he wanted to shift the emphasis AWAY from Iraq, a sovereign country we invaded when no one from Iraq was involved in the 9/11 hijackings, to a place where Bush and friends already knew there was a large concentration of terrorists harboring people like Bin Laden. The fact that Bush was so friendly with Mushariff (paying him tons of hushup money every year) let Al Qaeda and the Taliban reconstitute while Bush was playing pilot and looking towards his great historical "legacy".
Saving people from terrorists by "abandoning" them? Err.. sorry Charlie. Because there were no real terrorists in Iraq before we got there (they were scared to death of Saddam), we had to bring our own with us. We went to a war on terror missing the terrorists, lol. The people in Iraq had one "terrorist", which btw, your friend Rummy was sure glad to press flesh with on more than one occassion as a US government official in the past. You mean we didn't KNOW Saddam was doing that stuff? Man, that must have been a surprise, even after all the CIA info was sent for decades saying he was because we set him up to do it all.
Again, time for this type of stuff to come to light and more will surface. Gitmo is down, one less headache and far less money and resources to keep that obsolete place running. A base in Cuba in today's world has no practical value at all. I'm surprised it too this long to shut the joint down. I look forward to actually maybe even seeing Cuba one day after our government allows it in the future, so I don't have to hear this crazy fear talk on how dangerous communism is anymore. I guess its good for business to keep scaring morons into thinking barbarians are at the gate, but more sane and rational people aren't fooled at that "Here comes the Horde" rhetoric.
This is a great first step to a lot of that type of nonsense going away.
"TO MICHAEL!"