Whats the general thought on JTL ?

5150 · October 2004

Originanly posted by xplororor

JTL is still incomplete for one MAJOR reason:

1. There is NOTHING to fight for! No PvP for landcontrol/territorial control. Players cannot change the game world. This is why ultimatly EvE Online is still a better Space-based MMORPG. And AO is still a better land based Sci-Fi MMORPG.

I think youre going to be waiting a loooonnnnngggg time for this in SWG/JTL - bottom line Lucas is _not_ going to let a game change the established story in the long term and people will argue that constantly fighting over the same land night after night is boring and they want something more tangible (if you have played Planetside you'll know exactly what I mean), on the other end of the scale you get RvR combat in DAOC where the faction that holds the most relics (i.e. is 'winning') is given advantages that make them more likely to win and the current losers more likely to lose - I cant see this approach ever going down well either ("hey look everyone the Rebels are winning......constantly.......and by a landslide")

Eve has no more 'land control' than JTL (Shiva notwithstanding) if a faction decided to camp Kessel or Deep space and kill everyone else coming in it would be no different than corp blockading systems in Eve - I will wait and see if Shiva changes this. That said Eve is not a MMORPG its a MMOG (not the lack of 'R') people will find it much harder to get 'into' their character in Eve since its a picture and a bunch of stats - you're more likely to relate to your ship than your character.

Eve doesnt offer multiplayer ships or the ability to move around in ships and as a result you cant really compare them as they are not the same (since JTL combat is first person its more like the proposed 'Online Universe' from the makers of X and X2 than Eve)

As far as land control on the ground goes, I think that its a flawed idea. It didnt work in AO (but to be fair AO PvP wasnt balanced before they introduced Notum Wars) and it didnt work in Neocron, and Playercities showed us the tip of the iceberg of what would happen in SWG.....

Land control will always be the preserve of the uber guilds (and the Rebels in SWG have a massive numerical advantage before you even consider PAs) and the side with the most player will win (and then you end up with people 'ninja hacking' like in Neocron where the 'land' is taken over when the other side is largely offline (which is also partly a timezone issue).

Since SWG still tries to preserve its 'casual gamer friendly' angle I cant see it ever going down this route, that and the fact that denying non PvP/neutral players access to stuff is never a good thing (just look what happened when people put player cities around the static content in SWG! - so you might say SWG already has land control.)

panache · October 2004

Have to aggree with 5'

You can't compare EVE with JTL. EVE is a MMOG point and click stratedgy game. JTL i would suppose offer some feeling of actually being a character controlling a ship rather than being an inanimate picture and a bunch of stats.

I used EVE as a distraction from SWG until games arrive i do wish to play. EVE i believe is not an alternative to JTL if you want a bit of space action...

and you will still have a character you control....not a picture with stats.

Pan

DevilHawk · October 2004

Originally posted by xplororor

THIS is why I want LucasArts' plan to f-a-i-l. LA are not the game DEVs. IF there is NOT a rush of players into SWG just because of JTL, then it will show LA that the gamers are not mindless lemmings. That they do, will and have noticed the damage LucasArts has did, done, and is doing, to SWG.

I see what your getting at xplororor, but its just not going to happen. LA is a very successful company, and they didnt get that way by staying true to subject. They became successful due to the successful, and down right amazing marketing strategies of a few products. If JtL, or SWG floundered more then likely LA would drop the title and move on. The chances that LA would "learn" from the minority (us, the hardcore gamers) are very slim. Its all about demographics, and appeasing a large customer base, and the hardline... making profit.

And 5150 (hope I have the #'s right lol), I couldnt agree with you on your post more.

This is a problem and advantage large gaming companies have over the smaller ones. They have to shift through alot of feedback... so chances are they are reading the whines of some 13 year old, or a 30 year old with the educational background of a llama, instead of people who take their games seriously. You know the kind, the ones that go out of their way reading countless posts and articles on MMORPG sites... lol. The advantage is that the larger company is more likely to sit down with a QA team and shoot for what they "THINK" the end product should be like... so theres a chance to get it right.

With smaller companies ie NetDevil for one, there are a limited ammount of Devs and they do listen to what the players cry out for. But as stated in the last paragraph... alot of these players dont give thought to end game experience, and have no clue to the truth of what their ideas will actually result in. When the Devs listen to the customers, the game loses its originality and the core idea that the designers had intended. Its like goin to an artist and telling him/her that they shouldnt use this or that color, and they need to use this or that brush. You just dont get the product that was originally planned, you dont get that one person's true vision of the game. In the end, we, the core players end up losing out.

/end gaming philosophy 101

Good posts on both views guys... today its released and lets see how well the expansion does, shall we

::::40::

Cerion · October 2004

Originally posted by xplororor

Where did I say punish the game DEVs? Your point #1 seems a lot like punishing to me. Advocating a boycott of the product certainly isn't rewarding anyoneHow long have you been following SWG? How long have you been playing SWG? What does this have to do with anything? But okay, I'll humor you. I've been following SWG years before the ground game launched. I there well before the Outcast debates and "wild" zone debates. In fact, I think I still have the original design documents somewhere. As for playing SWG, I played solidly for 5 months after launch, then stopped playing because of so many outstanding issues with the game. As I said I was a critic of the devs actions. But having worked in JtL beta as I've said, I'm a converted critic. JTL is still incomplete for one MAJOR reason:
1. There is NOTHING to fight for! No PvP for landcontrol/territorial control. Players cannot change the game world. This is why ultimatly EvE Online is still a better Space-based MMORPG. And AO is still a better land based Sci-Fi MMORPG. While I do enjoy games like EVE and WWII online which have territory control, it certainly isn't necessary for a game to be fun.
- LucasArts is the main reason for the majority of negativity surrounding SWG. LA are the ones who pushed for Jedi to be in SWG not according to how Jedi were first planned. This resulted in the Jedi Hologrind. Which has permenantly and forever damaged/destroyed the quality SWG player community. It litterally forced thousands of players to stop playing SWG. I've recently found out the extent of the damage as I've recently done a rotation of all the old, veteran, SWG PAs, and almost ALL of them stopped playing SWG for the exact same reason. Oh, I agree with you--the hologrind was a disaster, and one of the reasons I left. But I'm not going to hold a grudge forever. It gives one an ulcer. THIS is why I want LucasArts' plan to f-a-i-l. LA are not the game DEVs. IF there is NOT a rush of players into SWG just because of JTL, then it will show LA that the gamers are not mindless lemmings. That they do, will and have noticed the damage LucasArts has did, done, and is doing, to SWG.And I submit that if you enjoy JtL you are in no way a mindless lemming. However, someone following your call to abort JtL having not played it would be the proverbial lemming over the cliff-Personal Website (A Work in progress):http://www.geocities.com/xplororor/index.html-AC, AC2, AO, EQ, SWG:http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor-More SWG:http://community.webshots.com/user/captain_sica_xol-EverQuest II:http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_eq2archives01-EQ, Dungeon Siege, Diablo II, *UXO*:http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01-EVE Online !!!http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01

Cerion · October 2004

Originally posted by xplororor
--------------
- Cosmic Rift was the first online space game to first have multi-player ships. So SWG having them is nothing new. In fact, I was among the players who played vs the SWG game DEVs in the game Cosmic Rift, back when the old official SWG forums were up.

Certainly you don't mean Sony's Cosmic Rift?? The arcade style Cosmic Rift? That is NOTHING like Multiplayer ships in JtL. I'm not speaking of multiplayer, multiperspective ships or vehicles which are prevelant in many games. That's easy to code. Multiplayer ships in JtL that I speak of are the ones that you can walk around in while the ship is moving. That is a true innovation.

Tymora · October 2004

Originally posted by Cthulhuvong

If I broke the NDA, so what.

This is awesome . . . classic. LOL.

Cthulhuvong · October 2004

heh, thanks

JTL out now so NDA doesn't matter....at least I don't think it does

__________________________________
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server)

Games Tried:
Everquest (not a power gamer)
Earth and Beyond (kinda fun, kinda boring)
Planetside (rather play Counter-Strike)
Lineage 2 (see Everquest above, plus too many PKers and Bots)
Guild Wars [E3 trial] (Not too bad from what I saw, nothing very new though)
Eve Online (somewhat fun, somewhat repetetive)

Waiting for:
Fallen Earth (Post-apoc just rules!)

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