The Negatives

[Deleted User] · January 2009

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Mentor73 · January 2009

Are we playing same game? In Moria money is easy to get. Do some instances, nice money there. Grand Stair, hard mode doesn't take long and you can get arround 700 s per run.

With MoM i feel quite opposite. Have more money now then in SOA. And i'm still long way untill last tier in tailor crafting on my main.

And economy hasn't really changed, atleast on server I am playing. Some critted items are still arround same price as highest crafted teal gear before Moria.

Lobotomist · January 2009

Originally posted by solareus

It is time to really look at the game, and see sopme of the biggest faults in how Turbine went about producing and pushing the content.
1. Costumer in-game support is clueless at the high end game. They have no one single idea of what your trying to tell them about a bug in a quest. This is a huge fail, and it has completely changed my veiw on questing. Pretty much done questing.
2. The economy, is fucked. Not only am I pennyless in the game, I can't not advance forword in the story because of armor repair cost .
3. Gaming as a melee player not a crafter, your fucked . The economy is crafting dependant, ifgf you dont craft or prosect, your fucked, you can't just be an adventure in this game and expected to get ahead , it won't happen.
4. Over all game direction is fucked. Not only is this becoming a cliche mmo, they have completly moved away from supporting Monster play in any way. TThe instancesin moria, are not what I wanted to play in a casual game, it takes way to mucvch time to get anything done, and it has really pushed a lot of people who liked the fun aspect of not making a jjob to play , play.. At 60 , this game is a job now, and I'm pretty burned out of getting into games like this.
5. A lot, Alot of people are thinking it, but i'm the only one saying it , it would seem. Pretty much going to be done playing this title , and moving to something that will stick to what the enitial audeidence wanted and not push out some of the ccliche shit that Ive been playing through in moria. It has become an armor / weapon get game, and for me in this part of my mmo gaming life ,just is not aenough.

My over all veiw on the game hasnt changed, I think it is a great game(greatst game) and worrth a try if you like standard mmo's, but I won't let what i think are the weakests points so far after 2 years go unsaid.
Good Luck .

Jeez , mate ... To hear such thing from a long time fan and player...

I myself just planned on buying the expansion and returning to game after few months of absence.

Yet all my guildies that returned and played expansion allready stopped playing

I asked them why? So some of them state the "Armor repair costs" , or other reasons...

Now i am downloading expansion and i wonder....should i buy or not ?

But perhaps you can be clearer on one point you mentioned?

You said that Moria (instances) are not casual?

What do you mean ?

Is everything now taking hours and hours to be done?

For that is why i left. I reached Angmar and misty mountains part of the game. And even movement to the quest place was a chore. Cause they put mobs on every square meter just to hamper your progress...

Is the moria the same...cause that would suck ...

Steelrose · January 2009

Originally posted by solareus

It is time to really look at the game, and see sopme of the biggest faults in how Turbine went about producing and pushing the content.
1. Costumer in-game support is clueless at the high end game. They have no one single idea of what your trying to tell them about a bug in a quest. This is a huge fail, and it has completely changed my veiw on questing. Pretty much done questing.
2. The economy, is fucked. Not only am I pennyless in the game, I can't not advance forword in the story because of armor repair cost .
3. Gaming as a melee player not a crafter, your fucked . The economy is crafting dependant, ifgf you dont craft or prosect, your fucked, you can't just be an adventure in this game and expected to get ahead , it won't happen.
4. Over all game direction is fucked. Not only is this becoming a cliche mmo, they have completly moved away from supporting Monster play in any way. TThe instancesin moria, are not what I wanted to play in a casual game, it takes way to mucvch time to get anything done, and it has really pushed a lot of people who liked the fun aspect of not making a jjob to play , play.. At 60 , this game is a job now, and I'm pretty burned out of getting into games like this.
5. A lot, Alot of people are thinking it, but i'm the only one saying it , it would seem. Pretty much going to be done playing this title , and moving to something that will stick to what the enitial audeidence wanted and not push out some of the ccliche shit that Ive been playing through in moria. It has become an armor / weapon get game, and for me in this part of my mmo gaming life ,just is not aenough.

My over all veiw on the game hasnt changed, I think it is a great game(greatst game) and worrth a try if you like standard mmo's, but I won't let what i think are the weakests points so far after 2 years go unsaid.
Good Luck .

1) Agree there, customer in-game support could be better.

2) If you are penniless, it's your problem. I have over 350 gold and repair after one death is around 100s (1000s = 1g), there's definetly no problem for me.

3) Actually MoM, made crafters a bit weaker. Most of the best items came from dungeons. No idea what you're talking about there. You can do 1-60 without crafting, nor dungeoneering. Items have lesser impact on the power of your character than in most other games.

4) I have no idea what you are talking about

5) How did the weapon/armor customization changed since the start?

Steelrose · January 2009

Originally posted by Lobotomist

I asked them why? So some of them state the "Armor repair costs" , or other reasons...
Now i am downloading expansion and i wonder....should i buy or not ?

But perhaps you can be clearer on one point you mentioned?
You said that Moria (instances) are not casual?
What do you mean ?
Is everything now taking hours and hours to be done?
For that is why i left. I reached Angmar and misty mountains part of the game. And even movement to the quest place was a chore. Cause they put mobs on every square meter just to hamper your progress...

Repair costs are definetly not a problem.

It is true that dungeons are less casual, the bosses are harder. The dungeons are not longer, just more difficult. Actually some dungeons can be done in less than 20 minutes (Grand Stair for coin drop)

If you hated angmar because they put mobs everywhere, there are places in Moria where it went to an extreme. Im not a big fan of this design either, but I can understand it improves the atmosphere of that place. It is Moria afterall, which should be considered to be one of the most dangerous places in Middle Earth.

Lobotomist · January 2009

Originally posted by Steelrose

Repair costs are definetly not a problem.
It is true that dungeons are less casual, the bosses are harder. The dungeons are not longer, just more difficult. Actually some dungeons can be done in less than 20 minutes (Grand Stair for coin drop)
If you hated angmar because they put mobs everywhere, there are places in Moria where it went to an extreme. Im not a big fan of this design either, but I can understand it improves the atmosphere of that place. It is Moria afterall, which should be considered to be one of the most dangerous places in Middle Earth.

Its not the fact they put mobs everywhere.

It should be like this:

A "road" where you travel trough zone to places of interest. It is only sporadically crossed by a wandering monster.

And "Place of interest" being questing places. That are naturally thick with mobs

... above design provides with ease of movement trough the zone. And they did so in LOTRO in lower regions.

After they completely blocked and hampered any movement in zones like Evendim, Angmar and Misty mountains. Probably because they wanted to hide small size of regions by slowing you down considerably.

But when you are constantly knocked down from horse, while traveling. And running with train of mobs behind... That is getting very old , very very old.

I hoped this was because Evendim, Angmar and Misty - were put up in hurry. And that new zones will be well thought out...

So please tell me it is not so in Moria !!!

Mentor73 · January 2009

Lobotomist ... don't worry, all instances are short, longest 16th hall, that takes maybe hour and a half, with good group even that can be shorter.

As for repair costs, yes if you wipe many times you can get repair costs 1g and over.

Repeatable quests - mirrors are very helpfull, you get potions, weapon experience and i think also money as rewards. Do them on daily bases and you dont need to buy any potions you would need in instances or regular exploring.

[Deleted User] · January 2009

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[Deleted User] · January 2009

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Steelrose · January 2009

Originally posted by solareus

My repair costs for heavey armor are well over 100s per death, with doing the Moria instances you get rolled around 10 times a session, and if you don't your lieing. , boss after boss. The end of the day it is around 2 gold on repairs, and in skumfil, there is no silver dropping.
Spent 4 hours in Skumfil today with a great group that got rolled very few times and I stuck with them , and when I went to repair, 1.5 gold.
You completely missed the point about the economy. For a person like myself who does n't craft and never hasin any of the games played and is dependent on what is dropped in game, you won't have 320 gold for long. You would burn through that in a week on repairs as a Guardian.
As a non crafter, I'm left wondering why Turbine failed to make a leveled economy, a economy that supports all players , like it did beta. With the economy like it is , players like myself who want to run and gun and not get tied up in the a part of the game that is not that interesting to me is really annoying.
I'm sure you farmed 320 gold off of mobs, My self personally rarely have over 10 gold. It is just impossible with out turning the game into a lineage 2 grind fest, and the only thing your grinding for is coin. It is really stupid and a very large waste of time.
...........................
As far as GM's goes, I'm never going to do the Skumfil key quest , just have the turn npc tell me I dont have the peices, then have a GM say you got to go spend 4 + more hours and do the whole thing over again. That is when I pretty much call it a day and start browsing for a new game.

Actually you are so wrong you can't imagine.

Crafting is definetly not a gold-mine in this game. Yes you can make some money, but when you start you first spend maybe 20-30 gold in resources to get to supreme mastery. Then you have to buy mithril flukes that goes for 1-2 gold now, and as a jeweller (that's what I am) the sublime-dawn rose jewellry is simply not good enough and people are not buying it even for 4 gold. And keep in mind, the cost to make one is around 3 gold in case you spend your one week cooldown crafting guild recipe. If not, the cost to make sublime-dawn rose is higher than the actual price of the item on AH (because lots of people use the 1w cooldown)

To make it short, I made all my gold just from farming mobs, believe it or not. And now when people are spending 30+ gold on any 2nd age legendary item I can't see a problem for a guardian to make enough money for his repairs. It is your inability to play this game properly, because noone I know, noone in the kinship I play has any problems with money and that list goes well over 100.

JeroKane · January 2009

Originally posted by solareus

My repair costs for heavey armor are well over 100s per death, with doing the Moria instances you get rolled around 10 times a session, and if you don't your lieing. , boss after boss. The end of the day it is around 2 gold on repairs, and in skumfil, there is no silver dropping.
Spent 4 hours in Skumfil today with a great group that got rolled very few times and I stuck with them , and when I went to repair, 1.5 gold.
You completely missed the point about the economy. For a person like myself who does n't craft and never hasin any of the games played and is dependent on what is dropped in game, you won't have 320 gold for long. You would burn through that in a week on repairs as a Guardian.
As a non crafter, I'm left wondering why Turbine failed to make a leveled economy, a economy that supports all players , like it did beta. With the economy like it is , players like myself who want to run and gun and not get tied up in the a part of the game that is not that interesting to me is really annoying.
I'm sure you farmed 320 gold off of mobs, My self personally rarely have over 10 gold. It is just impossible with out turning the game into a lineage 2 grind fest, and the only thing your grinding for is coin. It is really stupid and a very large waste of time.
...........................
As far as GM's goes, I'm never going to do the Skumfil key quest , just have the turn npc tell me I dont have the peices, then have a GM say you got to go spend 4 + more hours and do the whole thing over again. That is when I pretty much call it a day and start browsing for a new game.

Every MMO that has armor repair costs, you are basically screwed as tank. Period!

As tank you get all the beating and thus suffer the highest repair costs.

If you have a good guild with nice people, then people that group with you frequently should be able to support you in the repair costs. It's only fair to do so.

But if you run mostly PuG's ....yeah then it can be very difficult and hard as tank to keep yourself afloat financially.

Cheers

Mentor73 · January 2009

Originally posted by solareus

Originally posted by Mentor73

Lobotomist ... don't worry, all instances are short, longest 16th hall, that takes maybe hour and a half, with good group even that can be shorter.
As for repair costs, yes if you wipe many times you can get repair costs 1g and over.
Repeatable quests - mirrors are very helpfull, you get potions, weapon experience and i think also money as rewards. Do them on daily bases and you dont need to buy any potions you would need in instances or regular exploring.

Apparently, you have no idea what your talking about, these instances are long, not because it is a lot of things to kill, but because of the amount of rolls it takes you to kill the mob just once. GS is the easist instance, but you can't complete the entire thing in one sitting, you have to continueslly reset the area and do it over . As i pointed out , this is very cliche stuff for the mmo genre ,, and the thinking hats where clearly off during some of the end game content concepts.

I'm taking the 4 months of from the game, it is time to play something different to compare LotRO to.

I had the pleasure to be one of the players that downed the Watcher. But if I understand right, you are talking about number of runs you need to do to get that one item for full fellowship? All i can say, it takes less time then Rift.

Bursche · January 2009

Originally posted by solareus

It is time to really look at the game, and see sopme of the biggest faults in how Turbine went about producing and pushing the content.
1. Costumer in-game support is clueless at the high end game. They have no one single idea of what your trying to tell them about a bug in a quest. This is a huge fail, and it has completely changed my veiw on questing. Pretty much done questing.
this is the case in every MMO that i played.
2. The economy, is fucked. Not only am I pennyless in the game, I can't not advance forword in the story because of armor repair cost .
i can not comment on this. I never played a melee class, it sounds strange tho that you die are defeated so often.

3. Gaming as a melee player not a crafter, your fucked . The economy is crafting dependant, ifgf you dont craft or prosect, your fucked, you can't just be an adventure in this game and expected to get ahead , it won't happen.
of course you can - just grind down lower level mobs for easy cash with no risk.
4. Over all game direction is fucked. Not only is this becoming a cliche mmo, they have completly moved away from supporting Monster play in any way. TThe instancesin moria, are not what I wanted to play in a casual game, it takes way to mucvch time to get anything done, and it has really pushed a lot of people who liked the fun aspect of not making a jjob to play , play.. At 60 , this game is a job now, and I'm pretty burned out of getting into games like this.
Try WAR - easy come easy go - you have your ultimate Monster play, you can do quick instances or castle runs logging in for 30 minutes is worth it.

5. A lot, Alot of people are thinking it, but i'm the only one saying it , it would seem. Pretty much going to be done playing this title , and moving to something that will stick to what the enitial audeidence wanted and not push out some of the ccliche shit that Ive been playing through in moria. It has become an armor / weapon get game, and for me in this part of my mmo gaming life ,just is not aenough.
Well when LOTRO came out it was clear to me that after the first weeks of enthusiasm where i just liked to explore the places known from the books and movies NOTHING was there. The game had nothing to look forward for but more shiny 3D landscapes. You wanted to go find out about the elvish language? not given. Create a history have some minimal sandboxing? not given. Now - almost 2 years after release - the mainstream is tired of the landscape and Turbine replaced the vacuum with itemisation and instances. Not really a surprise if you think about it.
My over all veiw on the game hasnt changed, I think it is a great game(greatst game) and worrth a try if you like standard mmo's, but I won't let what i think are the weakests points so far after 2 years go unsaid.
Good Luck .

The major disadvantage of this game you have not mentioned it has no long term motivation - in fact i found it really boring quick. The only thing that can attract you is maybe a nice kinship or at least a core group of people you hunt with regularly. But keep in mind, a nice kinship or a good group of friends makes EVERY online game more fun. It is not a LOTRO invention.

Mentor73 · January 2009

Bursche ... defenately longer then WAR u mentioned.

But then we can discuss about tastes, different motivations etc. Like for every MMORPG: graphics, story, gear, community, PVP, ...

Darkfall might be your game.

Papadam · January 2009

I dont craft and spend probably 90% of my time doing end-game instances and still Im making money from Moria.

All the instances are very short in Moria and alot more casual friendly, there are also repeatable solo and 3-man instances if you want to do that and they take max 30 min. I dont think the instances is much harder than the old ones (BG. annunimas) and its nice to have some new challenges. If you dont wnat to be a gear grinder then dont be one.

I remember back in the old day when the end-gmae was CD and Uru.... it took you about 45 just getting there and the instances took several hours... That is the opposite to casual friendly.

I think the main problems with MoM now is:

1. Crafting is not good enough to be worth it. (theyve talked about some kind of crafting instances coming in book 7 thou)

2. PvMP balance.. They had a lot of good ideas for Ettenmoors but it still needs alot of work.

3. instance exploits. There are alot of exploits in the end-game instances that trivialize hard mode. needs to be fixed.

3. Class balance needs alot of work and DPS classes must be nerfed abit (also helping PvMP balance)

Im waiting for book 7 untill I make any final judgement on Mines of Moria but I think its a great expansion and if the next update fixes some of the issues I will happily keep playing.

Elikal · January 2009

Originally posted by solareus

It is time to really look at the game, and see sopme of the biggest faults in how Turbine went about producing and pushing the content.
1. Costumer in-game support is clueless at the high end game. They have no one single idea of what your trying to tell them about a bug in a quest. This is a huge fail, and it has completely changed my veiw on questing. Pretty much done questing.
2. The economy, is fucked. Not only am I pennyless in the game, I can't not advance forword in the story because of armor repair cost .
3. Gaming as a melee player not a crafter, your fucked . The economy is crafting dependant, ifgf you dont craft or prosect, your fucked, you can't just be an adventure in this game and expected to get ahead , it won't happen.
4. Over all game direction is fucked. Not only is this becoming a cliche mmo, they have completly moved away from supporting Monster play in any way. TThe instancesin moria, are not what I wanted to play in a casual game, it takes way to mucvch time to get anything done, and it has really pushed a lot of people who liked the fun aspect of not making a jjob to play , play.. At 60 , this game is a job now, and I'm pretty burned out of getting into games like this.
5. A lot, Alot of people are thinking it, but i'm the only one saying it , it would seem. Pretty much going to be done playing this title , and moving to something that will stick to what the enitial audeidence wanted and not push out some of the ccliche shit that Ive been playing through in moria. It has become an armor / weapon get game, and for me in this part of my mmo gaming life ,just is not aenough.

My over all veiw on the game hasnt changed, I think it is a great game(greatst game) and worrth a try if you like standard mmo's, but I won't let what i think are the weakests points so far after 2 years go unsaid.
Good Luck .

I am relatively critical with MMOs and also LOTRO... but I cant confirm any of these points.

Steelrose · January 2009

If anyone says that crafting in Moria is good for you money, he automatically loses all credibility. They are going to actually give improve crafted items soon, because atm they are mostly crap.

[Deleted User] · January 2009

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EATtheDEAD · January 2009

i got to lvl 60 w/o crafting and i have 400 gold thanks to moria. haha!

Thradar · January 2009

solareus, are you bi-polar? Swear you flipflop every couple weeks on your opinion on this game. I love it, I hate it, I love it....

Papadam · January 2009

Originally posted by solareus

Crafting is a core element in the game, anyone who has eve rplayed LotrO knows this, the crafting is not just moria, It is the at the core of the game. Specific crafting classes are far more successful then others as well, Tinkerer who crafts jewelry will continue to produce a revenue in the endgame as someone who focused on Armor, will not. Anyone focused on any kind of weapon crafting and armor making is out of the picture now, left wondering wtf did I grind all this for .
Crafting is the biggest waste of time at the mommnet of this game, at this time, unless your a Tinkerer.
Ignoring the problems and singing koombaya isn't going to make it better, it will just drive the game into the "typical fantasy genre" which in my opinion , it is so much more. I have played the game since Nov 06, and Ive seen all the changes made, all positive changes , but these points I bring have not changed . They have gone on and on and now Turbine has put themselve in a ciorner with Moria. The next 2 updates are critical, If some of the fan base can't see this, then koombaya.
SteelRose, post a picture of all your gold please, just so know one is left wondering and you can prove your point.

Eh Sol I think most people in this thread agrees that Crafting is "broken" right now (not worth the effort)! Its way to expensive to craft LI and the radiance set is what everyone is after. Hopefully they will add craftable armor with raidance aswell. I can see why they didnt whant to add that at release!

On a side note: Is the LotrO forum here the only one on this site where the fans actually discuss the negative aspects of the game in a mature way? I read most game forums here and it seems its always fans praising the game against the haters but here its actually possilbe to have a real discussion.

Yeebo · January 2009

If you never do any solo questing, deed grinding, or mat farming I imagine you will indeed have cash issues. If all you do is run end game instances you will make squat for cash unless you get lucky on legendary drops.

However, since I only run occasional instances with guildies, I have never had any problems personally. I have consistently had more cash than I know what to do with since MoM came out. I don't really see cashflow as a problem, even when I play my melee toons.

I disagree completely with nearly all of Sol's other points. The only two things that I personally see wrong with MoM are:

1. Monster play is currently dead as a doornail (which Sol did mention). However, I think this is mainly because most players are having so much fun in MoM that they can't be bothered to fool with their creeps. If Monster Play doesn't pick up again in the next few months, Turbine will have to make some serious changes to make PvMP more enticing. Better gear rewards for freeps, and much faster progression for creeps would likely do it.

2. Teir VI crafting is pretty borked. I have a nearly full roster of crafters, and I'm honestly not all that excited about anything I can make. Willing to wait and see what Turbine does, but the old system of "roughly equal gear from crafting, questing, instances, or PvMP" is not at all true in the current game. The gear from high end instances makes everything else look dumb.

However, on the balance, I'm still enjoying the hell out of MoM. I've been playing MMOs since SoV era EQ. I have seen a ton of expansions come and go in various games. MoM is absolutely the best expansion I've seen in an MMO. Bar none. An absolutely solid game got better in nearly every way.

If Turbine adresses the two issues above in the next few months, I'll be in MMO nirvana.

PnHobbit · January 2009

I don't understand your issues with repair costs. You should play with friendlier people or a guild...let me explain my confusion.

I'm a minstrel and typically I play casually. If I help with longer instances usually if I die people offer to pay my repair costs or guild will always help me out.

Also, I think if you do simpler quests you will not die so often and will make a large amount of gold while still enjoying the story. You should not be wiping 10 times in an instance with a proper group if you sit down and work out a strategy to approach the mobs.

rozenblade1 · January 2009

Okay, I am a Warden, repair costs DO suck, but if you can find some good friends (you don't even need a Kinship), they can help with the expense. I DO NOT craft, just not into it, but I manage to keep a fat bundle of coins in my pouch.

Mobs can sometimes be a b****, but it is not to the point of making me angry.

People just have different opinions on their experiences. The people you Fellow with or that are in your Kinship really make a BIG difference.

Tekaelon · January 2009

I haven't had any problem with quests so haven't needed customer service

I enjoy the crafting system. Coming from WoW where it was grind or die I like the idea of being able to craft some of the best items. Trust me there are plenty of games to accommodate those that don't like this.

BTW why do people come here to make posts like these? I've played games, not enjoyed them, and simply moved on. Some are ridiculous and only accomplish to show how little gray matter they have between their ears.

Mrbloodworth · January 2009

I think the OP is doing it really, really wrong, there is no other explanation. As nothing he has posted is in the realm of reality.

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