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Getting Lost

dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699

Just curious how people felt about a mmorpg where getting lost was possible.  I realize wandering aimlessly for hours would not be fun but knowing exactly where are are on a map at all times isn't that fun either.  There has to be a happy median.

Suppose all you had was the map with a lot of landmarks and a compass and you had to figure out for yourself where you're standing.  Even just specified zones where say you're compass doesn't work because of some strange magnetic field and your location doesn't show on the map.

It could certainly make some areas more interesting.  For instance if there was a blizzard in an artic region that caused white out conditions and you can only see a few feet in front of your face.

More opportunities would become available for content.  Your first time through a jungle you may need to hire a native guide.  A crooked merchant sells you a inaccurate map.

“There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
-- Herman Melville

Comments

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,319

    I've gotten lost a few times in SWG. When I was new to the game I didn't know how to use waypoints, got lost for a day or so on Tattooine. Then of course there is the Ryyatt trial on Kashyyyk, place was a freakin mess of lag and paths, elevators.

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  • DarxioDarxio Member Posts: 14

    Actually, some older games were so large that it was VERY easy to get lost in them.

     

    Asheron's Call is probably the easiest to name.  Sure, you had a map and knew your position and the position of major towns, but anything beyond that had to be memorized or written down.  Getting lost was VERY easy if you didn't know where you were going, since the world was really, really large(I think 260 square miles if compared to real measuements, estimated?) and relied on others showing people the path to get to a place, others giving you directions, or you just blindly running around looking for something, or an npc giving you hints for the location of the place you wanted to go.

     

    Even worse was when people summoned a portal for you saying it went to one place, but instead it dumped you in the middle of nowhere full of high level monsters.  As much as I hated when that happened to me in the past, I look back on it and laugh since it really was a new learning experience and I never knew a portal existed in the middle of nowhere, lol.

     

    Sadly, Asheron's Call implemented a lot of things to make getting lost in it very hard these days and took away from the player interaction... sorta needed since their numbers dwindled though, I guess.

     

    At least the landscape was very interesting, even pretty sometimes, in many of the places, so getting lost wasn't always a bad thing, lol.  Though getting pwned by the monsters in the area that were like 100 levels above you sucked, but again, was always an interesting, new experience!

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,801

    I like the idea.

     

    In the first incarnation of the Old Forest in LOTRO is was very easy to get lost. It was great. But then the complaints came and they made it easier.

    The problem is that it can't be a permanent thing. For instance, if it's too hard to find your way out and there is no alternative then people will get frustrated and leave.

    The alternative of course would be your map (in lotro) that allows an instant recall. Then what it comes down to is you getting lost for a certain amount of time and if you still can't find your way out then you can map at once your map is ready.

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  • JoliustJoliust Member Posts: 1,329

    I miss that, we are out in the woods all by ourselves feel. In older games it was always a blast getting lost for hours with a group of friends, setting up camp at night when it was hard to see. Running into interesting things, rarely seeing other players and when you did it was always kind of cool.

    I also miss not having every square inch of the world covered with aggressive monsters.

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  • Calind0rCalind0r Member Posts: 735

    In Earth and Beyond, one of the 3 ways you had to level up was Exploration, basically trying to get lost and discover new things...however its kind of hard to really get lost when you've got nav points and warp...but I agree with you completely, I dislike worlds that are zone style like WoW, all separated by barriers like mountains with only a few entry points.

  • KorbyKorby Member Posts: 499
    Originally posted by Sovrath


    I like the idea.
     
    In the first incarnation of the Old Forest in LOTRO is was very easy to get lost. It was great. But then the complaints came and they made it easier.
    The problem is that it can't be a permanent thing. For instance, if it's too hard to find your way out and there is no alternative then people will get frustrated and leave.
    The alternative of course would be your map (in lotro) that allows an instant recall. Then what it comes down to is you getting lost for a certain amount of time and if you still can't find your way out then you can map at once your map is ready.



     

    Hence the hearthstones with 1 hour cooldown that many games are implementing.

     

    (They teleport you to the starting zone)

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495
    Originally posted by dave6660


    Just curious how people felt about a mmorpg where getting lost was possible.  I realize wandering aimlessly for hours would not be fun but knowing exactly where are are on a map at all times isn't that fun either.  There has to be a happy median.
    Suppose all you had was the map with a lot of landmarks and a compass and you had to figure out for yourself where you're standing.  Even just specified zones where say you're compass doesn't work because of some strange magnetic field and your location doesn't show on the map.
    It could certainly make some areas more interesting.  For instance if there was a blizzard in an artic region that caused white out conditions and you can only see a few feet in front of your face.
    More opportunities would become available for content.  Your first time through a jungle you may need to hire a native guide.  A crooked merchant sells you a inaccurate map.

     

    I prefer to know where I am on a map at all times. I have played games where this is not the case, (EQ), and I dont' find that it ever enhanced my game play experience in any way.

    image

  • ZANGFEIZANGFEI Member Posts: 439

    The reason some do not like the getting lost in a game is because thay are like some sales people.

    They just want to get out the door and make the sale,  Point ~A~ to point ~B~ asap. anything in between does not count.

    On the other hand Carpenters like to Build things and see how things are done, They will Knock on every door to see what is inside. From Point ~A~ to Point ~B~ there is always something to do. and takes a lot longer to find everything. Getting lost is just a Bonus. I love the Carpenter way and i say toss the compass.

  • JaedeJaede Member Posts: 4

    I happen to agree with the getting lost bit.  Very much like everquest in the old days where if you wanted a map you had to make it yourself.  There were days that I spent trying to find my way out of one of the varies mazes/dungeons that was set up.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,801
    Originally posted by Korby

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    I like the idea.
     
    In the first incarnation of the Old Forest in LOTRO is was very easy to get lost. It was great. But then the complaints came and they made it easier.
    The problem is that it can't be a permanent thing. For instance, if it's too hard to find your way out and there is no alternative then people will get frustrated and leave.
    The alternative of course would be your map (in lotro) that allows an instant recall. Then what it comes down to is you getting lost for a certain amount of time and if you still can't find your way out then you can map at once your map is ready.



     

    Hence the hearthstones with 1 hour cooldown that many games are implementing.

     

    (They teleport you to the starting zone)



     

    My point exactly. I think it's ok to get a little lost, but at the end of the day no one wants to wander around aimlessly for hours. Or more to the point, I believe very few would want that.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • ZANGFEIZANGFEI Member Posts: 439
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Korby

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    I like the idea.
     
    In the first incarnation of the Old Forest in LOTRO is was very easy to get lost. It was great. But then the complaints came and they made it easier.
    The problem is that it can't be a permanent thing. For instance, if it's too hard to find your way out and there is no alternative then people will get frustrated and leave.
    The alternative of course would be your map (in lotro) that allows an instant recall. Then what it comes down to is you getting lost for a certain amount of time and if you still can't find your way out then you can map at once your map is ready.



     

    Hence the hearthstones with 1 hour cooldown that many games are implementing.

     

    (They teleport you to the starting zone)



     

    My point exactly. I think it's ok to get a little lost, but at the end of the day no one wants to wander around aimlessly for hours. Or more to the point, I believe very few would want that.



     

    That is the problem nobody want to work for anything anymore.

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905
    Originally posted by dave6660


    Just curious how people felt about a mmorpg where getting lost was possible.  I realize wandering aimlessly for hours would not be fun but knowing exactly where are are on a map at all times isn't that fun either.  There has to be a happy median.
    Suppose all you had was the map with a lot of landmarks and a compass and you had to figure out for yourself where you're standing.  Even just specified zones where say you're compass doesn't work because of some strange magnetic field and your location doesn't show on the map.
    It could certainly make some areas more interesting.  For instance if there was a blizzard in an artic region that caused white out conditions and you can only see a few feet in front of your face.
    More opportunities would become available for content.  Your first time through a jungle you may need to hire a native guide.  A crooked merchant sells you a inaccurate map.

     

    Some of the older games use to do this but they had a different design philosophy back then. Most MMO's were striving to become immersive worlds in those days.

    Now they strive to be "accessible". Lord forbid a player needs to take more then 2 minutes to do or get somewhere. I think SWG was the first game to really undo the map thing with its huge glowing light towers marking the way for people and one of the MOST complete maps in a game at the time, back in 03. People critize WoW for their quest markers, the infamous "?" but SWG is really where that started with its glowy lightpoles.

    It was frustrating back then to a point and in reality, people just went to online sites and printed or looked up the maps there anyway. So....while it may seem like a "cool" idea, the player base would ruin it within minutes and post everything on the net.

    The only game I can remember really pulling my hair out over was Asherons Call. DAoC was another one that didn't have any maps at all back in the beginning from what I recall.

     

     

  • Swiftblade13Swiftblade13 Member Posts: 638

    your post used to exist.... EQ1 was exactly like this... minus the map unless you used eqatlas. 

     

    It was awesome to have to learn your way around using landmarks... it made the world seem bigger and made you feel more immersed.  I really miss the pre-map days.

     

     

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  • tigris67tigris67 Member UncommonPosts: 1,762
    Originally posted by Swiftblade13


    your post used to exist.... EQ1 was exactly like this... minus the map unless you used eqatlas. 
     
    It was awesome to have to learn your way around using landmarks... it made the world seem bigger and made you feel more immersed.  I really miss the pre-map days.
     
     

    true that. Back in 2000, I was making mental maps in my head to follow this giant landmark here, or make a left at this river, or turn at the fallen log/etc. It made the world seem real. It even got as deep as looking up at the sky and seeing which way the wind was blowing the clouds because they always blew west.

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  • LanmoragonLanmoragon Member Posts: 994

    So far this is one of the things I like about The Chronicles of Spellborn.  The map is beautiful to look at and it is pretty detailed, but there are no markings for quests on it.  The quests may tell you to "go down the south road from the city gate" or "defeat so-and-so mobs in the forest south east of here, but there arent any easy marks or arrows pointing your way.

    Kinda nice to wander around finding your stuff but also knowing you are in the general vicinity and not totally lost.

  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699
    Originally posted by Torak 
    Some of the older games use to do this but they had a different design philosophy back then. Most MMO's were striving to become immersive worlds in those days.
    Now they strive to be "accessible". Lord forbid a player needs to take more then 2 minutes to do or get somewhere.
    It was frustrating back then to a point and in reality, people just went to online sites and printed or looked up the maps there anyway. So....while it may seem like a "cool" idea, the player base would ruin it within minutes and post everything on the net.
    The only game I can remember really pulling my hair out over was Asherons Call. DAoC was another one that didn't have any maps at all back in the beginning from what I recall.

    People posting all the maps and directions on the internet does spoil it.  Only to be made worse by people creating addons that give the latitude and longitude of your current position and every point of interest in the world.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

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