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" gear shows how well you know your class"

EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,249

This is a quote I pulled from a friend who plays WoW. That mentallity right there, is what is wrong with current mmos. Gear SHOULD NOT make the player, how well you know your class should. Yes you should be rewaded for your time invested however, gear upgrades should be a perk. You must know your class first before you obtain the gear! Not the opposite. Bah, this mentallity gets on my nerves! Where oh were is the next gen EQ?

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  • mackdawg19mackdawg19 Member UncommonPosts: 842
    Originally posted by Eronakis


    This is a quote I pulled from a friend who plays WoW. That mentallity right there, is what is wrong with current mmos. Gear SHOULD NOT make the player, how well you know your class should. Yes you should be rewaded for your time invested however, gear upgrades should be a perk. You must know your class first before you obtain the gear! Not the opposite. Bah, this mentallity gets on my nerves! Where oh were is the next gen EQ?

     

    And these are the "friends" you chose? Odd...

  • KordeshKordesh Member Posts: 1,715
    Originally posted by Eronakis


    This is a quote I pulled from a friend who plays WoW. That mentallity right there, is what is wrong with current mmos. Gear SHOULD NOT make the player, how well you know your class should. Yes you should be rewaded for your time invested however, gear upgrades should be a perk. You must know your class first before you obtain the gear! Not the opposite. Bah, this mentallity gets on my nerves! Where oh were is the next gen EQ?

    Bingo. Games centered around the gear grind tend to be the most shallow of all of them, and with good reason. Because generally that's all there is. You grind out raids to get new gear, so that you can do that other raid and get BETTER gear, so that you can do that other raid and get even BETTER gear, until even better gear is patched/expansioned in. No story progression needed, no player housing, no crafting dynamics, no mounts, nothing of the sort. Nothing that could actually bring depth to the game world beyond "Hey look, a sword with slightly higher stats." They just focus on the need of your average noob MMOer to min/max the shit out of everything.

    tl;dr version: The topic quote is incredibly ignorant and is exactly why WoW clones continue to be made and why the genre continues to fail to be interesting. Honestly, were it not for SoE and general technical issues, sadly Vanguard likely has more depth than three or four of the most recent releases combined. 

    Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.

    EAT ME MMORPG.com!

  • EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,249
    Originally posted by mackdawg19

    Originally posted by Eronakis


    This is a quote I pulled from a friend who plays WoW. That mentallity right there, is what is wrong with current mmos. Gear SHOULD NOT make the player, how well you know your class should. Yes you should be rewaded for your time invested however, gear upgrades should be a perk. You must know your class first before you obtain the gear! Not the opposite. Bah, this mentallity gets on my nerves! Where oh were is the next gen EQ?

     

    And these are the "friends" you chose? Odd...



     

    Umm.. this was real iife friend i was talking too on aim about wow..

     

  • Squal'ZellSqual'Zell Member Posts: 1,803

    im sure if the NEW gear that has slightly (almost insignificant) higher stats and it looked like a textureless cube they would still wear it. and when you wear the whole set you look like cubeman. with 1% more (insert perk) than the previous armour.

    this is what MMOGs have becomes and the big companies are seing this and saying " well if thats what they want... lets give it to them but lets make better graphics that no computer on the market can play it at max." for them numbers say what people want, not fan forums.

    i see here 977 974 members, (say 1 million) and wow has 10 million... there you go we know what people want.

    what hapened to the good old days where games where made to be inovative with quality over quantity

    anarchy online, Ultima online, EQ1 where the best games that ive played EVER... and i would still chose them over AoC, WoW, WAR and the new generation of games

     

    guess ill stick with my EVE online till darkfall or something else comes by... (Huxley looks good too)

    image
    image

  • UrrellesUrrelles Member Posts: 574

    "Gear shows how well you know your class"

    There is some truth in this statement.  It's not the absolute truth, but it is part of a bigger truth.

    This does not mean that owning the biggest badest epic items means you know how to play.  It means that having the right starts and complimentary sets or items  shows how well you know how to build up a class.  If you see a feral druid in cat form running aorund in healing gear or strength gear, they do not know their class.  You see a cat druid with agility and attack power, they know how to build their class.

    However, I have seen people take this way too seriously to heart.  I had a protection paly in WoW.  I was decked out in all sorts of defense + stamina gear.  But to throw things off, I was really into RP and unique utility items.  So I had 2 or 3 out of place items on my character.  A signiture eyepatch that I wore to define my character (mindyou it also had stamina and defense ratings).  A Freezing Band Ring, which had a 1% chance to freeze anyone who struck you.  It was made for wizards.  Uther's Strnegth which would randomly place a 200 HP shield over you if your were attacked.

    I've had people say I didn't know a damn thing about tanking or my class because of these 3 items.  They would ocmpletely ignore all the rest of my uber gear and focus on thes minute things.  Besides the eyepatch whch was for looks, each item was an extremely helpful to me in PvP and PvE.  The freezing band was a rogues bane.  Many times I would be standing alone defending a post, then suddenly I see a frozen rogue apear right behind me.  I casually turn aorund, place my judgement and start whacking away for a free headstart.   Uther's strength would frequently fake out players into thinking I used my 5 minute shield.  Then the player would unleash everything they had only to find out that it was not my rela sheild. 

    These 2 items alone got me frequent visits from ingame CSR because people thought I was hacking by freezing them in place and popping multi shields.  I would simply reply, "Check my items"  and I would get a swift apology by the CSR, and a "Have fun!"

    But you cannot tell that to the item Nazi who only sees big stats, and perfect builds.

     

  • ZorvanZorvan Member CommonPosts: 8,912

    So then, this would mean that the cockroach who has his toon powerleveled and then buys all the uber gear from the scumsucker farmers really knows his class?

    Tell your friend to get his brain checked. I think it's broken.

  • ValiumSummerValiumSummer Member Posts: 1,008

    You speak of the Next Gen EQ... Wasn't that a game where you could twink characters to high heaven?  

     

  • DaPrinzDaPrinz Member Posts: 39
    Originally posted by Eronakis


    This is a quote I pulled from a friend who plays WoW. That mentallity right there, is what is wrong with current mmos. Gear SHOULD NOT make the player, how well you know your class should. Yes you should be rewaded for your time invested however, gear upgrades should be a perk. You must know your class first before you obtain the gear! Not the opposite. Bah, this mentallity gets on my nerves! Where oh were is the next gen EQ?

     

    That was why I quite healing as a paladin, it was purely based on my gear and its healing power. Even though I was an experienced healer, I knew how to rotate all my spells and when to use them and what not. But it wasn't enough.

  • Relentless02Relentless02 Member UncommonPosts: 126
    Originally posted by mackdawg19

    Originally posted by Eronakis


    This is a quote I pulled from a friend who plays WoW. That mentallity right there, is what is wrong with current mmos. Gear SHOULD NOT make the player, how well you know your class should. Yes you should be rewaded for your time invested however, gear upgrades should be a perk. You must know your class first before you obtain the gear! Not the opposite. Bah, this mentallity gets on my nerves! Where oh were is the next gen EQ?

     

    And these are the "friends" you chose? Odd...

     

    What, does he have to disown his friend because he thinks gear is more important in a game lol. Thats like breaking ties with a friend because he grinds his teeth a lot lol. Your allowed to have your differences.

  • EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,249
    Originally posted by ValiumSummer


    You speak of the Next Gen EQ... Wasn't that a game where you could twink characters to high heaven?  
     



     

    Yes but the difference is, EQ players > WoW players. The majority of twinks on EQ where alts. Which can be argued the only case where twinks should exist.

  • ValiumSummerValiumSummer Member Posts: 1,008

    I love the blanket "EQ players > WoW players" crap.

    That settles the argument then doesn't it.     You must have been captain of your debate team.

    Good day.

  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by ValiumSummer


    I love the blanket "EQ players > WoW players" crap.

     

    It's not crap if you are willing to see his point. In WoW it's possible to solo to max level with any class, you are able to join a raid guild in high content and don't really need social skills to do this.

    In EQ you needed much more than just a pulse to progress. I hope MMO become much more tactical, but of course Blizzard doesn't want this because it would mean a mass exodus of every player who couldn't do the content or didn't have the social skills to make a group.

    MMO companies are scared to add in tactical or skill elements.

    Look at the ultimate skill games, PC FPS. The UT servers saw this happen, anyone who was skillfull enough to win matches stayed and everyone else got sick of loosing and left the game. Companies are scared of that scenario.

    During EQ people couldn't go anywhere else. UO and EQ were the only options, if you left EQ or UO, you left MMO. Now you have many more choices.

    Players choose the road of least resistance. They don't just do this in the MMO but also in the MMO they choose to play. The road of least resistance is WoW atm. Anyone is a winner in WoW.

    You only need time to win in WoW. That's why a 12 year old with the brain of a turtle can be a lvl 80 toon. That's why many players play WoW, because no matter how dumb players play or are, there is no repercussion, no xp loss, no PVP loss, no gear loss.

     

  • Jack_FrostJack_Frost Member Posts: 19

    People play WOW for many reasons...my friends and I resubed to it today. It will be our 2ndary MMO ( we play FFXI primary atm. Though we have played everything and switch it up from time to time) We are just gonna do quests ( read and enjoy them, not just spam the shit out of them), run dungeons and get drunk. Have to say its pretty fun so far.

    The community in WOW is terrible and the whole  focus on gear is sickining. I actually saw the OPs quote in global chat today....I find /ignoring everyone that is a dumbass ( I fear I will be running out of room on my blacklist soon im up to 30ish names already and we just started) and turning off global when you can is best way to enjoy that game...well and not taking the game serious.

    But there are some people that play WOW that dont fit the WOW player mold...they are just hard to find. Really hard to find b/c they have every chat channel turned off LOL.

    ok back OT.

    SO does gear show how well you know your class? In a game like WOW ...nah'! but in FFXI; maybe..its not overly complicated of a game but you have to be smarter than your average 12year old. In a game like EvE....sure if you have a 75mil SP MS pilot and you don't know WTF you are doing you are gonna die a terrible (and expensive) death every time. So 'Gear' ships are sorta a good way to tell if a person is experinced in their 'class'.

    Its a hard line to draw.... Its up to the game.

     

    -----
    Pwning for a Cure, participant *cough* >_>

  • Hellfire999Hellfire999 Member Posts: 73

    When I first saw the topic title and thought it meant your CHOICE of gear correlates to how well you know your class.  For example, if I'm a mage and get robes and jewlery with str enchantments that wouldn't be very smart.

    But other than that I agree with the OP...

  • EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,249
    Originally posted by ValiumSummer


    I love the blanket "EQ players > WoW players" crap.
    That settles the argument then doesn't it.     You must have been captain of your debate team.
    Good day.



     

    You know, you do have a legit reason to say that because I did not explain my self. However I just decided to take the wow road and be lazy and just say that. Waterlily has a great explaination.

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 8,020

     Gear sometimes shows that you do not know your class, when a player has ridiculous gear like a caster with +strength gear, or when player has bad gear like a level 80 tank in WoW who doesn't know he that he should have certain amount of certain stats to prevent critical hits on himself and wipes.

    But often those who look like they have good gear are those who just get it because they don't know their class and go along with others in their gear choises. And those who know their class may have some more unique and strange gear choises because they really know what they are doing and what they want from their gear.

     
  • UrrellesUrrelles Member Posts: 574
    Originally posted by Vrika


     Gear sometimes shows that you do not know your class, when a player has ridiculous gear like a caster with +strength gear, or when player has bad gear like a level 80 tank in WoW who doesn't know he that he should have certain amount of certain stats to prevent critical hits on himself and wipes.
    But often those who look like they have good gear are those who just get it because they don't know their class and go along with others in their gear choises. And those who know their class may have some more unique and strange gear choises because they really know what they are doing and what they want from their gear.

     

    Yup exactly, just as I explained above.  I was one of those odd gear choosers who had a specific function for my gear choices.  I looked outside the box when choosing gear.  I often looked for gear with extra utility over big stats. I was one of the early birds who used "Green Whelp Armor" to run the flag in WSG (before it got nerfed months later).

  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr Member CommonPosts: 2,142
    Originally posted by Waterlily 
    It's not crap if you are willing to see his point. In WoW it's possible to solo to max level with any class, you are able to join a raid guild in high content and don't really need social skills to do this.

    I agree with most of your post, but not the quoted sentence.

    I've been a participant in the world of high-end WoW raiding, and social skills do play a very considerable part to your prospects of integrating into a raid guild with any degree of success. WoW raid guilds are, (in my experience) absolute hotbeds of drama and intrigue, rife with cliques and backstabbing.

    As for soloing to max level; I find that infintely preferable to the way some games enforce grouping during the levelling process. My viewpoint is that while solo-levelling my character, I learn everything about their various skills and abilities, how they interact and what combinations are successful; and I can also log on whenever I feel like a spontaneous bit of gaming.

    Forced grouping just teaches you how to be a robot.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • severiusseverius Member UncommonPosts: 1,516
    Originally posted by Urrelles


    "Gear shows how well you know your class"
    There is some truth in this statement.  It's not the absolute truth, but it is part of a bigger truth.
    This does not mean that owning the biggest badest epic items means you know how to play.  It means that having the right starts and complimentary sets or items  shows how well you know how to build up a class.  If you see a feral druid in cat form running aorund in healing gear or strength gear, they do not know their class.  You see a cat druid with agility and attack power, they know how to build their class.
    However, I have seen people take this way too seriously to heart.  I had a protection paly in WoW.  I was decked out in all sorts of defense + stamina gear.  But to throw things off, I was really into RP and unique utility items.  So I had 2 or 3 out of place items on my character.  A signiture eyepatch that I wore to define my character (mindyou it also had stamina and defense ratings).  A Freezing Band Ring, which had a 1% chance to freeze anyone who struck you.  It was made for wizards.  Uther's Strnegth which would randomly place a 200 HP shield over you if your were attacked.
    I've had people say I didn't know a damn thing about tanking or my class because of these 3 items.  They would ocmpletely ignore all the rest of my uber gear and focus on thes minute things.  Besides the eyepatch whch was for looks, each item was an extremely helpful to me in PvP and PvE.  The freezing band was a rogues bane.  Many times I would be standing alone defending a post, then suddenly I see a frozen rogue apear right behind me.  I casually turn aorund, place my judgement and start whacking away for a free headstart.   Uther's strength would frequently fake out players into thinking I used my 5 minute shield.  Then the player would unleash everything they had only to find out that it was not my rela sheild. 
    These 2 items alone got me frequent visits from ingame CSR because people thought I was hacking by freezing them in place and popping multi shields.  I would simply reply, "Check my items"  and I would get a swift apology by the CSR, and a "Have fun!"
    But you cannot tell that to the item Nazi who only sees big stats, and perfect builds.
     

     

    That would have been true but games have usually limited what a player can even choose from.  From weapon "skills" to armor "skills" players are pushed precisely to what they can or cannot use and what the developers have envisioned for optimal builds. 

  • SioBabbleSioBabble Member Posts: 2,803

    No, gear shows how lucky you are in drops and loot rolls.

    CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

    Once a denizen of Ahazi

  • Calind0rCalind0r Member Posts: 735

    Gear very well could show how well you know how to play. But it doesn't in WoW...which is why you should not make generalized statements such as these, when they are completely different in WoW than other games. In WoW anyone can get any gear they want, except maybe the best arena gear, just by putting enough time in, while some other games you actually need skill and to accomplish things other than time spent to get gear.

  • KnightblastKnightblast Member UncommonPosts: 1,787

    "Clothes make the man."  -- Mark Twain.

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,520

    I think gear should be somwhat inporatnt, but I also think you should be able to have more control over your skillset. Also, I hate gfames where other players can examine your gear and everything you have on you, I think it's annoying. I know some like to brag and all, but I really could give a shit less what other's have and I don't like people being able to see what I have.

    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Originally posted by Eronakis


    This is a quote I pulled from a friend who plays WoW. That mentallity right there, is what is wrong with current mmos. Gear SHOULD NOT make the player, how well you know your class should. Yes you should be rewaded for your time invested however, gear upgrades should be a perk. You must know your class first before you obtain the gear! Not the opposite. Bah, this mentallity gets on my nerves! Where oh were is the next gen EQ?

     

    First of all ,i hate to admit but gear does make your class,NOT the player.I am not saying there are not real bad players,but the MAJORITY,will with very little effort learn there class and how it works,the rest is already pre fabbed skills/spells /abilities,the player does not make that part of the game nor do they make the gear.

    Now players do of course get there gear,through various means,the problem si that ,it does NOT show the true player,why?Well first off in a game like WOW there is tons of bought ACCOUNTS,TONS of RMT activity,it is the largest game for RMT activity by a mile.My point here is that unless a game makes it so you totally earn the items your self,make you earn them some way,and they cannot be tradeable,then it means nothing.

    There is another side to it as well,KNOWING your gear and your player is as simple as looking on your local website.It does not take long and the majority will know what gear works and what is a waste of time.

    The player would also have to know the games combat formulas,without knowing,just means you are most likely following what everyone else says or what everyone else is wearing.

    Then there is the elistist approach to there game,one witch can exist in FFXI,because there whole combat system blows the doors off anything WOW and it's clones can muster up.What the top players or the ones that can afford to do is,they carry several types of gear and macro it all in different situations.A simple PAladin can have 3 sets of gear,damage/defense and Weapon Skills,and most macro in refreshing gear to speed up hp and mp regeneration,so you can see there is a lot more to gear than meets the eye.I have even gone one step further by macroing in gear for RANGED attacks,that is a big one many use as well.It is more a case as i said of knowing the game,NOT your player.IN case of FFXI ranged attack is pretty much the most powerful normal damage in the game,without using up MP.

    I can show how FFXI is even a further advanced game than most>>>FOOD ! food can change your whole gear setup,if using DMG food then you may need accy gear and if using accy food,then you want dmg gear,or maybe you are under skilled and need all out accy gear.Can you tell in this case just by looking at there gear,if they are equipped properly?NO way,this is why gear does not always show others that you know your player.

    IMO the REAL truth players like to talk gear,is BRAGGING rights,they want to show off.I will always show more respect to team players ,and show almost none to those that are "LOOK AT ME".The gear will not change that focus one bit.

    In the case of RAIDING gear,it is the biggest joke going,you could literally stand in the corner picking your nose,then just lot on the drop and walk around wearing that item,you did nothing to earn.A team of 30/40/50 can easily leave 5 players standing on the sidelines doing nothing.Make raiding ONLY 6 player groups ,that way you know there was a pretty darn good chance EVERY player EARNED the kill and the drops.

     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • IlliusIllius Member UncommonPosts: 4,142
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    I agree with most of your post, but not the quoted sentence.


    I've been a participant in the world of high-end WoW raiding, and social skills do play a very considerable part to your prospects of integrating into a raid guild with any degree of success. WoW raid guilds are, (in my experience) absolute hotbeds of drama and intrigue, rife with cliques and backstabbing.


    As for soloing to max level; I find that infintely preferable to the way some games enforce grouping during the levelling process. My viewpoint is that while solo-levelling my character, I learn everything about their various skills and abilities, how they interact and what combinations are successful; and I can also log on whenever I feel like a spontaneous bit of gaming.


    Forced grouping just teaches you how to be a robot.


    I must respectfully disagree with you.

    I feel that soloing in fact teaches you more about being an automaton then grouping.  When soloing in WoW you rarely have to use all your abilities to win any fight where as in a group you have to figure out which skills work in relation to the other people in group so that you don't mess up what they're doing.  When soloing, there are 2-3 ways of doing things that will more or less win 90% of your fights without much effort assuming that you're fighting against reasonable opponents.  When it comes to group you have to manage a lot more then just the 1 enemy infront of you.

    No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-

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