Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Observations regarding recruiting people for SWG.
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
Disreputable marketing? Seriously?
You nailed it perfectly... loot card gamble. Gamble. GAMBLE. This is what draws people to anything collectible. A baseball card collector buys cards as a kid because he idolizes the players. As an adult, he buys cards hoping to score the current year's BIG ROOKIE that he can put his kids through college with in 20 years. I used to distribute sports cards for Upper Deck in the early 1990's and I have witnessed first-hand what people will spend money on in the hopes of getting the special insert card.
It's not just cards... When Superman was killed in the comics way back, the comic he died in was selling for $500 the same month it was printed. Today, the same comic can be bought for $5.
I bought Bionic Commando for the NES system back in the 1980's (don't remember the specific year) for $49. Last week I sold it on eBay for $120.
What's my point? People spend money because of a perceived value. If you know a card company was randomly inserting $120,000 original cards in a $2 pack, would your curiosity not be a little piqued? People add a value to the SWG in-game loot just as they do in the WOW in-game items from their card game.
I'm betting Blizzard is giggling at all the tens of thousands of packs of cards being purchased by people looking for in-game fluff which will mean nothing 5 years from now when the game is on it's last legs.
SOE is only doing wrong what everyone else selling collectible stuff is doing... cashing in on people's addictive natures.
No different than a crack dealer.
QFT
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
You know, it could also be some SWG haters trying to make the fanbois look bad.
Disreputable marketing? Seriously?
You nailed it perfectly... loot card gamble. Gamble. GAMBLE. This is what draws people to anything collectible. A baseball card collector buys cards as a kid because he idolizes the players. As an adult, he buys cards hoping to score the current year's BIG ROOKIE that he can put his kids through college with in 20 years. I used to distribute sports cards for Upper Deck in the early 1990's and I have witnessed first-hand what people will spend money on in the hopes of getting the special insert card.
It's not just cards... When Superman was killed in the comics way back, the comic he died in was selling for $500 the same month it was printed. Today, the same comic can be bought for $5.
I bought Bionic Commando for the NES system back in the 1980's (don't remember the specific year) for $49. Last week I sold it on eBay for $120.
What's my point? People spend money because of a perceived value. If you know a card company was randomly inserting $120,000 original cards in a $2 pack, would your curiosity not be a little piqued? People add a value to the SWG in-game loot just as they do in the WOW in-game items from their card game.
I'm betting Blizzard is giggling at all the tens of thousands of packs of cards being purchased by people looking for in-game fluff which will mean nothing 5 years from now when the game is on it's last legs.
SOE is only doing wrong what everyone else selling collectible stuff is doing... cashing in on people's addictive natures.
No different than a crack dealer.
QFT
I also see it as attempting to cash in (literally) on people's addictive nature. Obviously some are more vulnerable to this than others, but we all have our blind spots.
Also, the differences between this particular gamble and others have been highlighted clearly in other threads. (E.G. Are the items fluff, or do they give gameplay advantages? Is the game free to play, or does it have a subscription fee? Do you own the trading cards (printed cards) or do you only purchase a chance for a virtual card that you have no ownership of? Are people gambling for an actual trading card that is part of the trading card game, or are they after something else that has been embedded in the trading cards? Are the odds of winning made available and publicly verified? Is there a no purchase necessary option if the loot items are considered a product promotional? etc., etc.)
If you answer the questions above for WoW's cards, baseball cards and any product promotional in North America, and then compare the answers you get when you look at the loot items in the TCG, you'll see that your answers fall in two distinct columns. SOE's loot gamble has some very unique features.
More details on this here, for the curious reader--caution, loooong thread:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213746
To compare gambling for SWG loot items (which offer faster vehicles and combat buffs) to the WoW loot items which are "cosmetic" in nature, you can check out this link if you like:
http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/wow/en/products/loot/default.aspx
The most obvious differences at a glance are the player-owned, printed Trading cards and the "cosmetic" nature of the WoW MMO items. Also, the printed cards that may have a loot item bonus do have a function in the TCG itself. SWG could have used a model like this for their TCG, but apparently they didn't. WoW's version seems much more user friendly, as usual. If SOE was trying to copy even WoW's trading card game, it seems that they botched that too.
You may be correct, the statements made by that entity are way over the top and keep repeating key points.
Greedy Crafters and being a Jedi.
Greedy Crafters.... rrriiiggghhhttt. But just to play along and point out in the postings, apparently doesn't know the root cause of "greedy" crafters being greedy.
Greedy Resource Kings/Barons/Mongers.
I should know, I was one (though I preferred Resource Baron, sounded fitting).
Now of course, there were some good working relationships with crafters and good deals made.
But mostly sold high market prices, to cause crafters to drive up their prices, to get back at those damn greedy, bulleying, snobish, egotisitical, uber-only, leet speaking, noob-killing, combat loving, pencil-neck geeks.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
What I want to point out with this quote is that someone has just spent 120 real dollars, for 2 virtual items that he doesn't actually own. This is viewed as preferable to spending virtual (not real) dollars for virtual items.
$120 is about 8 months worth of subscription time. Just imagine how much virtual loot you could find, craft or purchase (for virtual currency) in 8 months of game time. Also, finding, crafting or purchasing items ingame can be an enjoyable online experience. How much fun is it to just hand over more than a hundred dollars to SOE in comparison?
I believe that marketting spin for this game would like people to feel that relieving them of 120 bucks, for 2 virtual loot items, is doing them a favour.
Again, it doesn't take a lot of in-depth analysis to see what's going on, to see who is benefitting, and who is getting fleeced.
What makes this spending any different than the people spending real money on the Warcraft TCG? I know my wife will drop $40 every so often buying packs... but she doesn't play in any tourneys or anything. She only buys the packs hoping for the in-game fluff items.
She still pulls out some stupid beach umbrella thing she won...
I would have to say the main difference is that WoW will still be around and insanely popular in years to come while SWG will be just a bad memory. WoW's demise is a very long way off and SWG's is right around the corner. Smed isnt going to say "Hey Im f*cking you guys again because the virtual crap you are buying these cards for will vanish when the new SW MMO comes out."
It kind of reminds me of the ToOW. The difference being atleast you get a card game this time.
"Players ... have been encouraged to 'entice' new people to join the game."
Yes ... but by whom? Has a red name ever gotten on the o-boards and done this? Not that I've seen. It's other players who are encouraging people to come to boards like MMORPG.com and voice their opinion.
This is more tin-foil hat nonsense.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Without a doubt these posts are disgruntled vets - only a fool could think otherwise. Its ridiculous to think they would try such a thing or even care about these forums, everyone knows its home to about 20 whiney vets and few others. I dont know about the stuff posted above, but even if it is true, its cleary not SOE, only a part of Sony, which is huge. Even if they were wanting to post on these forums to promote the game - they wouldnt do it in such a way - they'd mention all the new features, etc and alot more organisation would have gone into it to make it look real; that fact that we've all cottoned on is evidence in itself.
Much more likely and plausible is a disgruntled vet trying to prove SWG players are like he wants people to think they all are: naive, childish and and desiring instant gratification.
That would be kinda odd.
Most "upset former players" that I know.. actually encourage people to try the FREE Trial.
Why? So they can see it with their own eyes.
Which in the opinion of most people I know.. is all it will ever take for them to not subscribe.
Its much easier than coming up with some kind of forum mind control.. oddly.
*take me to your leader..*
That would be kinda odd.
Most "upset former players" that I know.. actually encourage people to try the FREE Trial.
Why? So they can see it with their own eyes.
Which in the opinion of most people I know.. is all it will ever take for them to not subscribe.
Its much easier than coming up with some kind of forum mind control.. oddly.
*take me to your leader..*
I don't know, this Howard.Roark character that's been posting is a little over the top if you ask me. Plus numerous quick replies -- I could point the finger at someone in particular that tends to frequent these boards, but I won't.
EDIT: Interesting. The two most recent ones are John.Galt and Howard.Roark. Both characters from Ayn Rand novels. I wonder who this could be ... someone who often brags on another website of being able to make as many MMORPG.com accounts as he wants, perhaps?
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
That would be kinda odd.
Most "upset former players" that I know.. actually encourage people to try the FREE Trial.
Why? So they can see it with their own eyes.
Which in the opinion of most people I know.. is all it will ever take for them to not subscribe.
Its much easier than coming up with some kind of forum mind control.. oddly.
*take me to your leader..*
I don't know, this Howard.Roark character that's been posting is a little over the top if you ask me. Plus numerous quick replies -- I could point the finger at someone in particular that tends to frequent these boards, but I won't.
EDIT: Interesting. The two most recent ones are John.Galt and Howard.Roark. Both characters from Ayn Rand novels. I wonder who this could be ... someone who often brags on another website of being able to make as many MMORPG.com accounts as he wants, perhaps?
It was big foot! lol
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
Not only that, but Ayn Rand's works tend to be looked up to by many American conservatives (the ones who can read, anyway). Now, who's the most rabidly conservative person I know from this board and others? Hmm ....
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
That would be kinda odd.
Most "upset former players" that I know.. actually encourage people to try the FREE Trial.
Why? So they can see it with their own eyes.
Which in the opinion of most people I know.. is all it will ever take for them to not subscribe.
Its much easier than coming up with some kind of forum mind control.. oddly.
*take me to your leader..*
Although i thoroughly disagree with your opinion, this kind of mentality may be possessed by you, but unfortunately, many others think differently and not so graciously, simply looking to make attacks, bring down the game or whatever.
I ask you, as one of the few people on these forums who i respect, can you really look at those posts and claim/believe that they are all part of a viral campaign from SOE?
You said "greedy crafters" in just about every single post you've made. Were you raped by a crafter in a past life?
if everyone in an economy requires something and there is someone with the means to give what they need to them (without them having to scavenge for it like cavemen), is that greed or is that supply and demand?
I think someone failed social studied...
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
I would just have to point out that SOE-SWG has been less than organized and well thought out in their communication skills, especially when it centers around word of mouth advertising.
Your theory that an angry vet is posting under assumed names to viral market SWG to new players is about the hardest theory to believe I have ever read. An angry player is hiding their identity so they can try to recruit new players to the game and company they are upset with, and that is the theory you are going with?
As for you saying only a fool would think SOE would do something like virally market their products under false pretenses, umm Sony and also specifically the former division in charge of SOE has been caught doing this very thing and they have lost lawsuits for doing this. The way SOE has mishandled information to their customers, hid the NGE/Station Cash/Station Exchange and so many other examples how can you call into question that SOE wouldn't do this. It is almost company policy. To assume they would not do this ignores the past actions of this company on so many levels. Also thinking they would limit this type of activity to these forums isn't seeing the bigger picture.
I would just have to point out that SOE-SWG has been less than organized and well thought out in their communication skills, especially when it centers around word of mouth advertising.
Your theory that an angry vet is posting under assumed names to viral market SWG to new players is about the hardest theory to believe I have ever read. An angry player is hiding their identity so they can try to recruit new players to the game and company they are upset with, and that is the theory you are going with?
As for you saying only a fool would think SOE would do something like virally market their products under false pretenses, umm Sony and also specifically the former division in charge of SOE has been caught doing this very thing and they have lost lawsuits for doing this. The way SOE has mishandled information to their customers, hid the NGE/Station Cash/Station Exchange and so many other examples how can you call into question that SOE wouldn't do this. It is almost company policy. To assume they would not do this ignores the past actions of this company on so many levels. Also thinking they would limit this type of activity to these forums isn't seeing the bigger picture.
Of all the products SOE currently has, SWG is the least likley for them to virally market. The current influx of 'SWG is teh gratist!' posts are from current players doing their own viral marketing on their own volition. The two Randian named posters are likely the same person mocking those viral posts.
Aside from the mocking posters, we see the same 'SWG is teh gratist' posts every couple months, spawned by a post on the OBoard asking how the players can save the game. It has happened before and been commented on before. This isn't an SOE directed effort. There is zero chance that SOE would put any effort into promoting SWG. Even the developers of the game don't feel strongly enough about the game to convince anyone to promote it. The Vanguard developers have actually came out and told their players to go forth and promote the game because SOE wouldn't. It resulted in a similar brief bump in 'Vanguard is all fixed up and everyone should play it' posts. SWG's dev team is composed of folks who are looking to get moved to either the DCU game, or are looking to pad their resume in the hopes of getting hired by an outside company.
You aren't going to find any passion among a group of people who are just there to cash a paycheck in the hopes of something better coming along. A company that employs an entire team of folks who are just there to cash a paycheck aren't going to exert any effort to entice others to advertise a product they don't care about.
Hell, the company that is supposed to promote the game is barely willing to acknowledge the game exists. Outside of discussing TOR, when is the last time anyone from LEC has even mentioned SWG? The last time they even gave an interview about a publish was last year when Jake Neri did one for Chapter 8.
We are not seeing a company sponsored, or initiated, makreting scheme. We are seeing scared players futiley trying to save their game. They are doing this in the hoes that an increased number of players, and thus an increased income for the game, will cause an increased investment in the game by SOE. What they fail to realize is that a significan increase in income would convince SOE that what they are currently doing is enough to increase the number of subscribers. It would not cause an increase in investment into the game, because what is currently being done would be seen as enough. Conversely, no increase in income will result in no increase in investment, because the folks at SOE rightly see SWG as a poor investment.
... I'm..... I...... *sigh*
Wait a second here... let me get this straight....
You would rather spend $120 (REAL) on two loot items (by loot, I mean you MIGHT EVENTUALLY reccieve), than to spend 2 Million credits (FAKE) on just one?
Alright, I completely give up on this one....
Look, I hate crafters' price gouging crap just as much as the next guy... but I'm not a moron. Can you not see how this whole setup is BAD.... for YOU!?
Let me spell it out for you... Basically, what SOE has done here is found a way to make money off of something that YOU ALREADY PAY A MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION FOR!!!
Starting with the CU, "greedy crafters" got replaced by "greedy looters." With the TCG, "greedy looters" got replaced by "greedy Smed."
So the greed hasn't disappeared from SWG, it just got more blatant. Same with elitism.
Starting with the NGE, "elitist Jedi" got replaced by "elitist Senators." With the TCG, "elitist Senators" got replaced by "elitist fools throwing tons of money away for pixels."
So the elitism hasn't disappeared from SWG, it just occurs on the secure transaction page of Station.com rather than in the game.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
You said "greedy crafters" in just about every single post you've made. Were you raped by a crafter in a past life?
if everyone in an economy requires something and there is someone with the means to give what they need to them (without them having to scavenge for it like cavemen), is that greed or is that supply and demand?
I think someone failed social studied...
greedi crafters had too much credits, they made everything too expensive. That's why loot is btter no more having to go spend all the money u had on greedy crafters to replace stuff.
i also like no decay. thats why this game is so much bitter than originian.
i got another barn in the cards i got for christmas ttoday. ha ha ha! look who can be greedi now!
You said "greedy crafters" in just about every single post you've made. Were you raped by a crafter in a past life?
if everyone in an economy requires something and there is someone with the means to give what they need to them (without them having to scavenge for it like cavemen), is that greed or is that supply and demand?
I think someone failed social studied...
greedi crafters had too much credits, they made everything too expensive. That's why loot is btter no more having to go spend all the money u had on greedy crafters to replace stuff.
i also like no decay. thats why this game is so much bitter than originian.
i got another barn in the cards i got for christmas ttoday. ha ha ha! look who can be greedi now!
Answer me this question:
Why are crafters "greedy" and looters not "greedy?" Also, why is Smed's greed better than crafting "greed?"
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
A bit off topic, but...
As someone who is a futurist, I find some of the posters in this thread to be short-sighted, and a bit neo-luddist. The purchasing of virtual goods with real money is just beginning, and will continue to grow in and out of video games. Hell, there have already been court cases won and lost where virtual items were the only thing in question.
Whether or not you are one of the people willing to spend money on virtual items, you sound like a tool when you make fun of people for "buying pixels" or whatever condescending phrase you want to use . Hell, the very idea of paying a monthly fee to run around in a virtual world is no less questionable than spending money on virtual items for said world. If you want to get philosophical, we can discuss the point of purchasing most *real life* material items people waste money on. Value is always subjective.
This is no defense of SOE, because I hate the bastards. I'm also not defending game companies who undermine their own games with micro-trans stores or outside loot games. I'm just making a general point about ripping on people for buying virtual goods be it in a video game or some other online source.
/end of rant.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I would just have to point out that SOE-SWG has been less than organized and well thought out in their communication skills, especially when it centers around word of mouth advertising.
Your theory that an angry vet is posting under assumed names to viral market SWG to new players is about the hardest theory to believe I have ever read. An angry player is hiding their identity so they can try to recruit new players to the game and company they are upset with, and that is the theory you are going with?
As for you saying only a fool would think SOE would do something like virally market their products under false pretenses, umm Sony and also specifically the former division in charge of SOE has been caught doing this very thing and they have lost lawsuits for doing this. The way SOE has mishandled information to their customers, hid the NGE/Station Cash/Station Exchange and so many other examples how can you call into question that SOE wouldn't do this. It is almost company policy. To assume they would not do this ignores the past actions of this company on so many levels. Also thinking they would limit this type of activity to these forums isn't seeing the bigger picture.
No genius...if you'd had read my post properly, you'd have understood that my theory is that this is a disgruntled vet pretending to be an NGE fanboi, taking the piss essentially. This could be for any reason such as simply wanting to stir things up or with the intention that those who play SWG look bad because of it, trying, in some pathetic attempt, to cause the shutdown of SWG, or simply just create some cannon fodder for those hungry hungry vets who just are satisfied without a certain amount of ridiculous claims, and SWG bashing per week.
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Many of the person in question's posts contain references to "greedy crafters" not affecting him anymore - as of now, theres no way that ingame, crafters have been shafted, you still need to go to them for almost all weapons, armor, BM equiptment, many looted schems, resources, most furniture etc etc - if this is SOE, why would they put in these statements. You may reply, because they plan to remove/nerf them in the future - but think about it, some of the following updates are addressing crafters and they recently did the huge WS update, why would they shaft them now. Time will disprove it, lets see.
Also, where is the proof of consistent viral marketing on MMORPG forums for SOE games? One thing you can not deny is that the vets on this forum love to have a rant about SWG and insult it, so how is it unfair to blame them. Regardless of what you may think about SOE employees, they do know that angry vets are convinced of a certain NGE stereotype, so why would they come to this forum of all forums, and make posts that clearly display this?
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.