As many of you know or can tell from my sig I love blizzard (and relic) two of the best developers out there. And play WoW. But would like blizzard to break down the numbers by region like they did do last year where there were about 4.5million subs in the west.
Blizzard are not lying with these numbers, on the day of census they had 11.5million players who could log in a play without having to pay, they are not making them up like others do, but more info would be nice.
We simply dont know how many subs are west or east... which is dissapointing. however we do know Wrath sold 2.8million copies in the first 24 hours, so Its more than safe to say Wow has 3million+ western subs. If I were a betting man Id be happy to put a pony on 4million western subs.
Also to some comment on eastern subscribers, comment like "they pay a tiny $2 a week" and so on, $2 in china is worth far far more than $2 in west. Some people need to get out more and learn about the world. Also china restricts the amount of time a person can play an MMO so paying a monthly fee is a waste... which is why subscriptions have never taken off in china.
And Britney Spears have sold over 300mil albums, still I do not listen to her.
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
Originally posted by firefly2003 No cause people are too incompetent these days to actually learn how to play a real MMO with real challenge instead of ez-mode all the way thru with instant gratification all the way thru it... just more nubs to smoke if they ever make it to a real MMO one day...
What is a real MMO?
EQ, SWG, UO, DOAC..
What made those games "real"? Not one of those games is/was any more dificult than WoW currently is. Some of those were more open-ended, that's true (especially in UO's case) but to call them real games when there really is nothing special about them besides the fact that they were the first of it's kind, would be silly.
Real games is a bad choice of words however the competency arguement is also a valid one.
Those four titles listed above required skill obtained through challenging content and an unforgiving environment. Conversely I recall doing pickup MC raids in WOW where people (level 60's) didn't know how their characters spells worked nor how to interact in a group much less a raid. My first EQ raid I did ok and that's only because the regular content prepared me for the next stage. IMO the same isn't true for WOW.
WOW isn't a bad game at all but it's subscription numbers are due partly to a ready made install base and a cult of personality. WOW is an easy, quick, fun snack with little fuss allot like McDonalds. Millions love it , Millions hate it then there are those like myself who think it's ok.
However the problem is no one is offering the 2008 fine dinning alternative That's what many of us are waiting for. Maybe next year...
I am a WoW subscriber, until I find something better.
If any of the developer out there ever decide to produce a quality MMO, I can leave WoW tomorrow and there won't be any tear on my face, I can guarantee that.
Problem is that developers are going retarded trying to copy WoW, and they forgot how to design a quality game.
Who had already quality games (SWG, EQ, EQ2) decided to go backward rather than forward..................shame.
Only facts I can quote are personal experience. My son and his friends (15-16 yr olds) love WOW, and while their interest had been waning recently, many renewed their interest with the release of the new expansion. While my son has always had a sub, two of his friends re-subbed to play the new content.
I have two co-workers who love WOW, and several long time gaming friends (back from Lineage 1 days) who still love the game and say they'll probably never play another MMO if they ever tire of WOW. (go figure)
That said, I gave up WOW 2 years ago, and never looked back. I enjoyed it for what it had, and moved on due to what it was lacking.
My son completed his level 80 Death Knight in less than a month, and is now grinding heroics for gear. He's already tiring of the drill, and told me the other day that when DarkFall comes out he's probably going to want to play it.
I'll be sticking with EVE (though will break for DF if it turns out to be good) and I know of at least one gamer who won't be playing WOW. (and probably not any of the other new Blizz games coming out...just not my style)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If anyone is interested, my guesstimate of how many people are currently, and actively playing WoW is much less, maybe even 1/2-3/4 of the 11.5 million they claim. And even more interesting is that they release these numbers right after they release an expansion which means those numbers include all the people that came back to check out how the game has changed. disclaimer: Again people, I am NOT saying that WoW is doing badly, or failing in any way. It is, by far, the most successfull MMO of all time, if not the most successful videogame of all time period. All I am saying is that the numbers are highly skewed, and can't be taken at face value.
You logic fails. You mean 1/2 of the people are PAYING and NOT PLAYING? Tell me why anyone would do that. Note that 4.5M (and that is old data when WOW is still at 10M) are from US & Europe.
It's been guessed (by corporate analysts) that less then 1/5 of the total subscribers of WoW actually subscribe the way we do here in NA. So maybe 2million of those 11.5million "subscribers" are actually what we here in the US would call a subscriber.
Here's a link as to how people subscribe to WoW in China, where a large portion of those 11.5 million "subscriptions" come from. Here's the snipet from the article that describes the "subscription" model in China: How large is the question. Last time Blizzard made an announcement in January of 2008, almost 1/2 the subscriptions were from NA and Europe. You stated that as few as 2 million were true subscriptions, but Blizzard had already stated in January that it was about 2.5 million from NA and another 2 million from Europe. Since the number of subscriptions has increased overall, unless there's some evidince to the contrary, you have to assume the number of NA and EU subscriptions has increased as well which probably pushes it above 5 million, not 2 million. Read the announcement again. Over 4 million people bought the expansion. It's my understanding that they do not purchase the expansion in Korea or China. That means those 4 million were from NA and Europe, so the number of traditional subscribers has to be at least 4 million. "Under this system, players will be able to download World of Warcraft (Free)and then activate their accounts by purchasing an authorised CD key for 30 Yuan (around 3 Euro). Instead of a monthly subscription, players will buy World of Warcraft Points Card, which also costs 30 Yuan, holds 600 points and allows around 67 hours of play at 9 points per hour. " You forgot to mention this: "In China, because a large number of the players do not own the computer they use to play games (e.g. Internet cafes), the CD keys required to create an account can be purchased independently of the software package. In order to play the game, players must also purchase prepaid game cards that can be played for 66 hours and 40 minutes. A monthly fee model is not available to players of this region." Here's a link as to how people subscribe in Korea, which uses a system similar to China, except in Korea you can't purchase time in as small of a block as in China. In Korea, the smallest block of time is 5 hours. Here's a snippet from the article that describes the Korean "subscription" model: "In South Korea, there is no software package or CD key requirement to activate the account. In order to play the game, however, players need to purchase time credits online via credit card or the ARS billing system. The minimum gameplay duration that a player can purchase via credit card is five hours. A player may also purchase game time by thirty hours or by increments of one week. A player also has the option of purchasing game time by one, three, or six months of gameplay at once for a slight discount" So, Blizz could just be counting the total number of active cards/time blocks out there, cards which NEVER expire Wrong. Read it again. It says Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are counted. That includes China and Korea. Most of the players in those countries do not own PC's hooked to the internet at home. They go to kiosks to play the game. These places have the game already installed and all the people have to do is put in their account information and have some paid time on the account. That's the whole reason for a different subscription model. These people are ONLY counted if they have accessed the game in the last 30 days. The game cards you are talking about are for those people that have a traditional subscription model but pay by purchasing a monthly time card instead of using a credit card. , and are used not for monthly time blocks, but rather for hourly/multiple hour time blocks. So again, when Blizz uses the word "subscriber" in these announcements, it is not "subscriber" as we in the West think of it. There are all kinds of ways Blizz can manipulate those numbers, and IMO, those numbers are arrived at by taking the total number of subscribers from the subscription model we are used to in the US and EU, and adds the total number of these Chinese WoW-Point-Cards that are out there with unused points on them, then adds the number of Korean accounts w/ time remaining on them to come up w/ their grand totals. So you believe this despite the fact that Blizzard states that is in fact NOT the case. They make it quite clear they are only counting ACTIVE subscribers. It's fine to have a theory on how it works in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, but when Blizzard clearly states how they get the numbers for you to assume they are lieing is laughable.
I'm laughing out loud in real life at the extent to which people are going to defend a video game. People have differing opinions, deal with it. Just because you disagree it does not mean you're right and they are wrong or vice versa.
It is like you lot aren't fans, you're all zealots. Do you realise you gain nothing from this pointless debate? Bottom line is, WoW might have 11.5 million subscriptions, but the mugs that play this game fail to realise that every snippet of "new" content is the same, recycled material that you have spent hours doing before, all of the existing variety only promises one reward: loot; this you cannot deny. If you're happy playing it, fine by me.
Of course, you'll disagree, but the fact that many have vigorously defended Blizzard means they will vigorously run to the defence of this game and attempt to discredit everything I've said.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
I'm laughing out loud in real life at the extent to which people are going to defend a video game.
Really? Because I'm laughing twice as loud as you (in real life) at the extent to which people are going to tear down a video game that is clearly highly succesfull.
The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.
This is what Blizzard wrote. just for al of you that dont know they dont count licesee subscribers in this number. So therefor this numbers excludes china and any other place. Therefore europe and amerca is the chunk of the 11+million player base. Gj trying to find a way to twist a clear definition to blizzards statemnt. Unlike other companies Blizzard clearly states how many actual paying subscribers they have.
I'm laughing out loud in real life at the extent to which people are going to defend a video game. People have differing opinions, deal with it. Just because you disagree it does not mean you're right and they are wrong or vice versa. It is like you lot aren't fans, you're all zealots. Do you realise you gain nothing from this pointless debate? Bottom line is, WoW might have 11.5 million subscriptions, but the mugs that play this game fail to realise that every snippet of "new" content is the same, recycled material that you have spent hours doing before, all of the existing variety only promises one reward: loot; this you cannot deny. If you're happy playing it, fine by me. Of course, you'll disagree, but the fact that many have vigorously defended Blizzard means they will vigorously run to the defence of this game and attempt to discredit everything I've said.
Not to derail this discussion but I'm just curious to know which game released new content which was not recycled material?
Basically, what I'm seeing here is people hating on a game because they feel that it's easy but mostly because it's popular. Kind of like hating on a popular band because they are too "main steam."
I may very well be easy for someone who played old school MMOs. Those games were truly unforgiving because they were the pioneers of the genre and the development community was still learning. Just like old school console games. They were unforgiving also. You had a set number of lives and if you died, you had to start the game from the begining. Does that mean that all current games are easy because you can save and continue?
I think that there are two sets of mind here. One is players who play the game to be entertained and the other is players who want the "hardcore" experience. One is no more valid than the other and there are games catering to both. Hating a game that caters to a particular preference is like hating people for liking pineapple on their pizza.
Everyone has their opinions on WoW, they're either good or bad, not sure why people get into these arguments, how do i base this game? do i have fun playing it? yes i do...that's all that matters is if you have fun playing it.
People want to blame blizzard for everything, when in fact they just wanted to make a fun game for their fans, even they didn't expect WoW to explode the way it has.
They made their first ever mmo, they didn't try to break the mold or anything, just take the best idea's out there to make a good mmo, but lets spit all over them for trying to make a good game.
Maybe you all should stop blaming WoW and start blaming other companies for trying for WoW's subs, they are at fault, they are the failure's, they are the ones ruining the MMO genre, remember this is blizzards first MMO these other companies have MMO's under their belts already, they should know exactly what to do and what not to do by now.
I hate the subscription game people play, they scream when companies don't share their numbers, then when others companies actually do show they are doing well, people call them liars and crap all over them.
Its sad what gamers are turning into.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
I'm laughing out loud in real life at the extent to which people are going to defend a video game. People have differing opinions, deal with it. Just because you disagree it does not mean you're right and they are wrong or vice versa. It is like you lot aren't fans, you're all zealots. Do you realise you gain nothing from this pointless debate? Bottom line is, WoW might have 11.5 million subscriptions, but the mugs that play this game fail to realise that every snippet of "new" content is the same, recycled material that you have spent hours doing before, all of the existing variety only promises one reward: loot; this you cannot deny. If you're happy playing it, fine by me. Of course, you'll disagree, but the fact that many have vigorously defended Blizzard means they will vigorously run to the defence of this game and attempt to discredit everything I've said.
Not to derail this discussion but I'm just curious to know which game released new content which was not recycled material?
I meant it in the sense that every aspect of the game, internally, is recycled material. WoW is essentially an elcetic mix of good bits of lots of other MMOs, but my point was to demonstrate that many of the players find themselves so engrossed by the game that they are satisfied by doing the same thing over and over again i.e. grind dungeons to get loot that will enable you to grind a harder dungeon, or the "season" PvP system which operates the same loot principle as raids.
Basically, what I'm seeing here is people hating on a game because they feel that it's easy but mostly because it's popular. Kind of like hating on a popular band because they are too "main steam."
I may very well be easy for someone who played old school MMOs. Those games were truly unforgiving because they were the pioneers of the genre and the development community was still learning. Just like old school console games. They were unforgiving also. You had a set number of lives and if you died, you had to start the game from the begining. Does that mean that all current games are easy because you can save and continue?
I think that there are two sets of mind here. One is players who play the game to be entertained and the other is players who want the "hardcore" experience. One is no more valid than the other and there are games catering to both. Hating a game that caters to a particular preference is like hating people for liking pineapple on their pizza.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
I'm laughing out loud in real life at the extent to which people are going to defend a video game. People have differing opinions, deal with it. Just because you disagree it does not mean you're right and they are wrong or vice versa. It is like you lot aren't fans, you're all zealots. Do you realise you gain nothing from this pointless debate? Bottom line is, WoW might have 11.5 million subscriptions, but the mugs that play this game fail to realise that every snippet of "new" content is the same, recycled material that you have spent hours doing before, all of the existing variety only promises one reward: loot; this you cannot deny. If you're happy playing it, fine by me. Of course, you'll disagree, but the fact that many have vigorously defended Blizzard means they will vigorously run to the defence of this game and attempt to discredit everything I've said.
Not to derail this discussion but I'm just curious to know which game released new content which was not recycled material?
I meant it in the sense that every aspect of the game, internally, is recycled material. WoW is essentially an elcetic mix of good bits of lots of other MMOs, but my point was to demonstrate that many of the players find themselves so engrossed by the game that they are satisfied by doing the same thing over and over again i.e. grind dungeons to get loot that will enable you to grind a harder dungeon, or the "season" PvP system which operates the same loot principle as raids.
Basically, what I'm seeing here is people hating on a game because they feel that it's easy but mostly because it's popular. Kind of like hating on a popular band because they are too "main steam."
I may very well be easy for someone who played old school MMOs. Those games were truly unforgiving because they were the pioneers of the genre and the development community was still learning. Just like old school console games. They were unforgiving also. You had a set number of lives and if you died, you had to start the game from the begining. Does that mean that all current games are easy because you can save and continue?
I think that there are two sets of mind here. One is players who play the game to be entertained and the other is players who want the "hardcore" experience. One is no more valid than the other and there are games catering to both. Hating a game that caters to a particular preference is like hating people for liking pineapple on their pizza.
But you just described every MMO out there. In every MMO, hell, virtually every game out there you do repetitive tasks over and over and over again.
You know I am starting to believe that WoW is starting to fit in the same category as politics and religion... you just cant talk about them because its a touchy subject..lol
I'm laughing out loud in real life at the extent to which people are going to defend a video game. People have differing opinions, deal with it. Just because you disagree it does not mean you're right and they are wrong or vice versa. It is like you lot aren't fans, you're all zealots. Do you realise you gain nothing from this pointless debate? Bottom line is, WoW might have 11.5 million subscriptions, but the mugs that play this game fail to realise that every snippet of "new" content is the same, recycled material that you have spent hours doing before, all of the existing variety only promises one reward: loot; this you cannot deny. If you're happy playing it, fine by me. Of course, you'll disagree, but the fact that many have vigorously defended Blizzard means they will vigorously run to the defence of this game and attempt to discredit everything I've said.
And yet you are more comfortable believing that the people who disagree with you do so because they are "mugs" rather than they find something in the game that gives them enjoyment.
As an earlier poster says, most games follow a repeated formula. Football, Chess, Counterstrike. Very few games at all, if any, offer such a varied amount of gameplay and width of content as WoW.
My advice to you is to do what I do, when you feel it is becoming too repetative, play something else.
MMO's have a floating population. That isn't the same 11.5 million players that were all in beta. They get bored, they move on. Some return for the new content, some never do. This is a game that has sold hundreds of millions of copies. When people feel as you do, they don't all keep playing either.
The subscriber base isn't 11.5 million people all much thicker than you.
Sorry. But there it is.
If not playing WoW is your big claim to superior intelligence, you can do better.
I play tennis. It involves hitting a ball back and forth over and over and boy do i love it. I play WoW. It involves doing simple quests to level and raiding at end game content over and over and boy do i love it.
You know I am starting to believe that WoW is starting to fit in the same category as politics and religion... you just cant talk about them because its a touchy subject..lol
It's more appropriate to compare WOW to Microsoft or Jeff Gordan (to a nascar fan).
Post in a computer related discussion that you think Vista is awesome, and you will have every little detail of the OS picked at.
Wear a #24 hat to a nascar race, and more than likely you will have beer 'accidently' spilled on you during the race.
Just like it is natural for some people to cheer for the underdog, it is also natural for some people to hate anyone who wins alot.
The Wrath sales numbes speak for themselves. 4M people in North American and Europe think enough of WOW to buy 'more of the same' in the first month. 2.8M of them on the first day. Forget China and Korea, forget the fact that the 'vanilla' box is still in the top 20 in game sales.. 4M people are playing ENDGAME.
You know I am starting to believe that WoW is starting to fit in the same category as politics and religion... you just cant talk about them because its a touchy subject..lol
It's more appropriate to compare WOW to Microsoft or Jeff Gordan (to a nascar fan).
Post in a computer related discussion that you think Vista is awesome, and you will have every little detail of the OS picked at.
Wear a #24 hat to a nascar race, and more than likely you will have beer 'accidently' spilled on you during the race.
Just like it is natural for some people to cheer for the underdog, it is also natural for some people to hate anyone who wins alot.
The Wrath sales numbes speak for themselves. 4M people in North American and Europe think enough of WOW to buy 'more of the same' in the first month. 2.8M of them on the first day. Forget China and Korea, forget the fact that the 'vanilla' box is still in the top 20 in game sales.. 4M people are playing ENDGAME.
and "end game" is all it has... this term was really started by wow where the get there quicker and do whtaever faster, don't wanna work for it mentality was has festered and spread like wild fire... Its fine you like WoW but keep that shit to yourself, no one wants ez mode spreading to their games, or to have you come to OUR games and go, "This isn't like WoW at all, can I have battlegrounds please?"
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As many of you know or can tell from my sig I love blizzard (and relic) two of the best developers out there. And play WoW. But would like blizzard to break down the numbers by region like they did do last year where there were about 4.5million subs in the west.
Blizzard are not lying with these numbers, on the day of census they had 11.5million players who could log in a play without having to pay, they are not making them up like others do, but more info would be nice.
We simply dont know how many subs are west or east... which is dissapointing. however we do know Wrath sold 2.8million copies in the first 24 hours, so Its more than safe to say Wow has 3million+ western subs. If I were a betting man Id be happy to put a pony on 4million western subs.
Also to some comment on eastern subscribers, comment like "they pay a tiny $2 a week" and so on, $2 in china is worth far far more than $2 in west. Some people need to get out more and learn about the world. Also china restricts the amount of time a person can play an MMO so paying a monthly fee is a waste... which is why subscriptions have never taken off in china.
Merry xmas one and all.
Good for Blizzard, but it's not my game.
And Britney Spears have sold over 300mil albums, still I do not listen to her.
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
What is a real MMO?
EQ, SWG, UO, DOAC..
What made those games "real"? Not one of those games is/was any more dificult than WoW currently is. Some of those were more open-ended, that's true (especially in UO's case) but to call them real games when there really is nothing special about them besides the fact that they were the first of it's kind, would be silly.
Real games is a bad choice of words however the competency arguement is also a valid one.
Those four titles listed above required skill obtained through challenging content and an unforgiving environment. Conversely I recall doing pickup MC raids in WOW where people (level 60's) didn't know how their characters spells worked nor how to interact in a group much less a raid. My first EQ raid I did ok and that's only because the regular content prepared me for the next stage. IMO the same isn't true for WOW.
WOW isn't a bad game at all but it's subscription numbers are due partly to a ready made install base and a cult of personality. WOW is an easy, quick, fun snack with little fuss allot like McDonalds. Millions love it , Millions hate it then there are those like myself who think it's ok.
However the problem is no one is offering the 2008 fine dinning alternative That's what many of us are waiting for. Maybe next year...
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
I am a WoW subscriber, until I find something better.
If any of the developer out there ever decide to produce a quality MMO, I can leave WoW tomorrow and there won't be any tear on my face, I can guarantee that.
Problem is that developers are going retarded trying to copy WoW, and they forgot how to design a quality game.
Who had already quality games (SWG, EQ, EQ2) decided to go backward rather than forward..................shame.
Yes SoE, I am talking to you.
QFT
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
Only facts I can quote are personal experience. My son and his friends (15-16 yr olds) love WOW, and while their interest had been waning recently, many renewed their interest with the release of the new expansion. While my son has always had a sub, two of his friends re-subbed to play the new content.
I have two co-workers who love WOW, and several long time gaming friends (back from Lineage 1 days) who still love the game and say they'll probably never play another MMO if they ever tire of WOW. (go figure)
That said, I gave up WOW 2 years ago, and never looked back. I enjoyed it for what it had, and moved on due to what it was lacking.
My son completed his level 80 Death Knight in less than a month, and is now grinding heroics for gear. He's already tiring of the drill, and told me the other day that when DarkFall comes out he's probably going to want to play it.
I'll be sticking with EVE (though will break for DF if it turns out to be good) and I know of at least one gamer who won't be playing WOW. (and probably not any of the other new Blizz games coming out...just not my style)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You logic fails. You mean 1/2 of the people are PAYING and NOT PLAYING? Tell me why anyone would do that. Note that 4.5M (and that is old data when WOW is still at 10M) are from US & Europe.
Link please.
Figures are misleading.
There are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
I'm laughing out loud in real life at the extent to which people are going to defend a video game. People have differing opinions, deal with it. Just because you disagree it does not mean you're right and they are wrong or vice versa.
It is like you lot aren't fans, you're all zealots. Do you realise you gain nothing from this pointless debate? Bottom line is, WoW might have 11.5 million subscriptions, but the mugs that play this game fail to realise that every snippet of "new" content is the same, recycled material that you have spent hours doing before, all of the existing variety only promises one reward: loot; this you cannot deny. If you're happy playing it, fine by me.
Of course, you'll disagree, but the fact that many have vigorously defended Blizzard means they will vigorously run to the defence of this game and attempt to discredit everything I've said.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
Really? Because I'm laughing twice as loud as you (in real life) at the extent to which people are going to tear down a video game that is clearly highly succesfull.
The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.
This is what Blizzard wrote. just for al of you that dont know they dont count licesee subscribers in this number. So therefor this numbers excludes china and any other place. Therefore europe and amerca is the chunk of the 11+million player base. Gj trying to find a way to twist a clear definition to blizzards statemnt. Unlike other companies Blizzard clearly states how many actual paying subscribers they have.
Surprised anyone actually cares how many subscribers the game has.
Not to derail this discussion but I'm just curious to know which game released new content which was not recycled material?
Basically, what I'm seeing here is people hating on a game because they feel that it's easy but mostly because it's popular. Kind of like hating on a popular band because they are too "main steam."
I may very well be easy for someone who played old school MMOs. Those games were truly unforgiving because they were the pioneers of the genre and the development community was still learning. Just like old school console games. They were unforgiving also. You had a set number of lives and if you died, you had to start the game from the begining. Does that mean that all current games are easy because you can save and continue?
I think that there are two sets of mind here. One is players who play the game to be entertained and the other is players who want the "hardcore" experience. One is no more valid than the other and there are games catering to both. Hating a game that caters to a particular preference is like hating people for liking pineapple on their pizza.
Everyone has their opinions on WoW, they're either good or bad, not sure why people get into these arguments, how do i base this game? do i have fun playing it? yes i do...that's all that matters is if you have fun playing it.
People want to blame blizzard for everything, when in fact they just wanted to make a fun game for their fans, even they didn't expect WoW to explode the way it has.
They made their first ever mmo, they didn't try to break the mold or anything, just take the best idea's out there to make a good mmo, but lets spit all over them for trying to make a good game.
Maybe you all should stop blaming WoW and start blaming other companies for trying for WoW's subs, they are at fault, they are the failure's, they are the ones ruining the MMO genre, remember this is blizzards first MMO these other companies have MMO's under their belts already, they should know exactly what to do and what not to do by now.
I hate the subscription game people play, they scream when companies don't share their numbers, then when others companies actually do show they are doing well, people call them liars and crap all over them.
Its sad what gamers are turning into.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Not to derail this discussion but I'm just curious to know which game released new content which was not recycled material?
I meant it in the sense that every aspect of the game, internally, is recycled material. WoW is essentially an elcetic mix of good bits of lots of other MMOs, but my point was to demonstrate that many of the players find themselves so engrossed by the game that they are satisfied by doing the same thing over and over again i.e. grind dungeons to get loot that will enable you to grind a harder dungeon, or the "season" PvP system which operates the same loot principle as raids.
Basically, what I'm seeing here is people hating on a game because they feel that it's easy but mostly because it's popular. Kind of like hating on a popular band because they are too "main steam."
I may very well be easy for someone who played old school MMOs. Those games were truly unforgiving because they were the pioneers of the genre and the development community was still learning. Just like old school console games. They were unforgiving also. You had a set number of lives and if you died, you had to start the game from the begining. Does that mean that all current games are easy because you can save and continue?
I think that there are two sets of mind here. One is players who play the game to be entertained and the other is players who want the "hardcore" experience. One is no more valid than the other and there are games catering to both. Hating a game that caters to a particular preference is like hating people for liking pineapple on their pizza.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
Not to derail this discussion but I'm just curious to know which game released new content which was not recycled material?
I meant it in the sense that every aspect of the game, internally, is recycled material. WoW is essentially an elcetic mix of good bits of lots of other MMOs, but my point was to demonstrate that many of the players find themselves so engrossed by the game that they are satisfied by doing the same thing over and over again i.e. grind dungeons to get loot that will enable you to grind a harder dungeon, or the "season" PvP system which operates the same loot principle as raids.
Basically, what I'm seeing here is people hating on a game because they feel that it's easy but mostly because it's popular. Kind of like hating on a popular band because they are too "main steam."
I may very well be easy for someone who played old school MMOs. Those games were truly unforgiving because they were the pioneers of the genre and the development community was still learning. Just like old school console games. They were unforgiving also. You had a set number of lives and if you died, you had to start the game from the begining. Does that mean that all current games are easy because you can save and continue?
I think that there are two sets of mind here. One is players who play the game to be entertained and the other is players who want the "hardcore" experience. One is no more valid than the other and there are games catering to both. Hating a game that caters to a particular preference is like hating people for liking pineapple on their pizza.
But you just described every MMO out there. In every MMO, hell, virtually every game out there you do repetitive tasks over and over and over again.
You know I am starting to believe that WoW is starting to fit in the same category as politics and religion... you just cant talk about them because its a touchy subject..lol
And yet you are more comfortable believing that the people who disagree with you do so because they are "mugs" rather than they find something in the game that gives them enjoyment.
As an earlier poster says, most games follow a repeated formula. Football, Chess, Counterstrike. Very few games at all, if any, offer such a varied amount of gameplay and width of content as WoW.
My advice to you is to do what I do, when you feel it is becoming too repetative, play something else.
MMO's have a floating population. That isn't the same 11.5 million players that were all in beta. They get bored, they move on. Some return for the new content, some never do. This is a game that has sold hundreds of millions of copies. When people feel as you do, they don't all keep playing either.
The subscriber base isn't 11.5 million people all much thicker than you.
Sorry. But there it is.
If not playing WoW is your big claim to superior intelligence, you can do better.
Wow sucks. Well, it doesn't suck. I just want more in an MMO. Something more to the core per say. Hoping for good things for Darkfall.
Hope you guys enjoy playing WoW.
I play tennis. It involves hitting a ball back and forth over and over and boy do i love it. I play WoW. It involves doing simple quests to level and raiding at end game content over and over and boy do i love it.
blizzard has /teabagged you all basically
It's more appropriate to compare WOW to Microsoft or Jeff Gordan (to a nascar fan).
Post in a computer related discussion that you think Vista is awesome, and you will have every little detail of the OS picked at.
Wear a #24 hat to a nascar race, and more than likely you will have beer 'accidently' spilled on you during the race.
Just like it is natural for some people to cheer for the underdog, it is also natural for some people to hate anyone who wins alot.
The Wrath sales numbes speak for themselves. 4M people in North American and Europe think enough of WOW to buy 'more of the same' in the first month. 2.8M of them on the first day. Forget China and Korea, forget the fact that the 'vanilla' box is still in the top 20 in game sales.. 4M people are playing ENDGAME.
It's more appropriate to compare WOW to Microsoft or Jeff Gordan (to a nascar fan).
Post in a computer related discussion that you think Vista is awesome, and you will have every little detail of the OS picked at.
Wear a #24 hat to a nascar race, and more than likely you will have beer 'accidently' spilled on you during the race.
Just like it is natural for some people to cheer for the underdog, it is also natural for some people to hate anyone who wins alot.
The Wrath sales numbes speak for themselves. 4M people in North American and Europe think enough of WOW to buy 'more of the same' in the first month. 2.8M of them on the first day. Forget China and Korea, forget the fact that the 'vanilla' box is still in the top 20 in game sales.. 4M people are playing ENDGAME.
and "end game" is all it has... this term was really started by wow where the get there quicker and do whtaever faster, don't wanna work for it mentality was has festered and spread like wild fire... Its fine you like WoW but keep that shit to yourself, no one wants ez mode spreading to their games, or to have you come to OUR games and go, "This isn't like WoW at all, can I have battlegrounds please?"