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Permadeath.
Lets just assume this game is half of what is advertised and runs relatively well (ok..a BIG assumption, but hopeful). I think a permadeath system (or server maybe) could really be the final feature that sent it over the edge.
It would be very powerful deterrent. Full looting would be the least of your problems. Every fight would have huge consequences in the game world for everyone involved. I'm really starting to believe that in order for a world to be able to police itself, for every fight to have some meaning, and for everyone to have just a little respect for their ingame peers, there is no other solution.
Not for everyone admitedly. Hell, not for me on most nights. But it would have its place and audience I think. Ultimate freedom deserves ultimate risk (in game).
Comments
in a ffa game you would never have a high level toon then. At some point you die, you always do. Noone would ever see high end content.
You would never have wars. In large scale battles many people on all sides would die. Also from what I read the AI is pretty tough so players would be restarting all the time against the beginning monsters.
You will die often, no point in forcing you to create new account on top of that...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
yeah pvp would be horrible, noone would do it. Being flagged for pvp 24/7 would mean you are either going to hide in your main city or house 24/7 or kill that 1 boar in front of your city all day then run back in. There would be no pvp.
The only way perma death works if you have an overpowered alpha class in a system with toggle-able pvp status.
Perma death? No.
The only thing this game is screaming for right now is .... release.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What it there was perma death but choosing to do so would make you more powerfull? You could still be killed but toughter than the rest... just a thought
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
There are ways to have a lifespan for a in-game character.
Did you follow that vapor-game..oh crap i cant even remember what it was called now! You made a character,a nd it was viable for "x" hours of actual in-game play, then died. You got a new character slot at that time which carried over to it some of the previous characters abilities...like a blood line. So your venerable and skilled swordsman passes on, his bloodline would pick up (so to speak) the sword skills at a greater rate, enabling you to reach the parent character's ability in less time.
Having in-game deaths somehow reduce life expectancy would in a way be neat too, but probably would piss off too many people.
Wow someone that registered in 03 and this is there first post? Strange lol
Anyways, to the OP, perma death is one of the worst ideas for a game ever. Who would want to play a game where everything you worked for would disappear if someone killed you or ganked you or zerged you?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Wow someone that registered in 03 and this is there first post? Strange lol
Anyways, to the OP, perma death is one of the worst ideas for a game ever. Who would want to play a game where everything you worked for would disappear if someone killed you or ganked you or zerged you?
It is strange lol I never used these forums until I did a AC search this morning and came across some posts that got my interest.
In a game without levels you would never a high level toon either. In a game without real high end content (you could start sieging other enemies the instant you make your character pressuming you have a clan), noone would ever see high end content as well.
Though I agree that Permadeath is absolutely stupid in Darkfall's context. It just wouldn't "add" anything to the game and make every thing else almost meaningless (economy, skill-decay, item-decay, soft-skill-cap).
i like this topic because it shows how even extreme darkfall fans are reasonable
"lets not get carried away!"
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
Abrahmm, you are always such a debbie downer :P (PS Obi-Wan sucks...everyone knows Qui-Gon was the man).
I thought you guys were carebear hatin hardcore killin somebody full lootin rootin tootin bad arse mofo hombres?
Of course it would be rough. That's the point. It would make you actually have to commit to an act and follow it through. You want a cold sweat running over your forehead as you bear down on some unsuspecting prospector, out in the middle of the wilderness doing a little mining? Maybe it's a trap...maybe the guy is gonna pull out a two handed axe and one shot you. Maybe he is just bait. But maybe..just maybe, he is combat weakling, with a month's worth of raw ore on his person. Enough to get that full set of full plate for you and your buddy. Is it really worth that risk? That steel dagger and cheap chain mail you're wearing isn't much of a risk. But your character would be.
You want to be a real legend? End the life of a king. Take his loot and laugh at his reroll. That will make a lasting impression. That would be a consequence.
Edit: Sorry, this is my favorite quote
"You would never have wars. In large scale battles many people on all sides would die. "
Of course they would...that would make going to battle something to remember. "I remember ILike2KillzU. We lost him in the battle to reclaim our city".
so much so noone would want to ever leave the safety of their house. This is not real life, this is a video game, dying is expected. The pvp would die, pve noone would ever try something challenging, you would kill any game with permadeath
Permadeath would make this or any other game 100% boring.
Who would be willing to pay a monthly fee just so that all the work you put into a character is ruined due to some bad luck. What happens if...
...the game crashes (going to happen a lot with DFO) and you die as a result?
...you lose connection (going to happen a lot in DFO) and you die as a result?
...you encounter a bug in game (going to happen a lot in DFO) and you die as a result?
What you would have is a bunch of masochist playing the first few areas of the game over and over again because they keep having to restart a character. Then, there would be a few people who would go out of there way to gank people just to wipe characters.
This would not make PVP meaningful.
I'm all for "harsh" death penalties but none of those will ever make PVP meaningful. Earning something for PVP is what makes it meaningful, not losing something. And earning other peoples loot...loot you can get on your own...is not meaningful either. I'm looking forward to DFO too...but let's not kid ourselves that the PVP will be meaningful or even hardcore. It will be a bunch of children out to grief and gank others, the victims doing the same to those lower than them sighting that "Hey, it happened to me...this is Hardcore, go home carebears."
If you're going to implement "harsh" death penalties then there should be "Amazing" rewards as well. It is an MMO after all...balance, while ever elusive, is the most important thing in all aspects of the game. Darkfall if going to have a hard, hard time with game balance as it plans to mix in twitched based game play as well as more conventional MMO game play.
Will be fun to check out that's for sure...looking forward to it.
That's because in this game there ARE NO LEVELS. It is a SKILL based game...which means that you can see all the high end content you want at any time AND participate in it because it's also sandbox. Example of a non level fight in pve is: On the first day of playing a brand new toon in UO...The first thing I did, after the buying of a spell book and spells to fill it which took like ten minutes wthin creation of toon, was to go fight one of the most hard, deadly creatures in the game SOLO, and I won...not because of some damn number by my name BUT BECAUSE I USED MY BRAIN TO OUTWIT THE LITTLE B*ST*RD.
Give yourselves some credit people...most of you have a brain and are intelligent, well you ALL have a brain lol, so dare to USE it!! Don't be a slave to POINT AND CLICK.
DISCLAIMER: It should be noted that the author of this post has spent time in a mental institution and is nuttier than a fruitcake most days.
Krystar Daymen (Old School UO player baby)
If you want perma death delete your character when you die.
/thread
I agree with you on permadeath being the only way to really keep a game server, of a game of THIS type anyway, policed. I also agree that it would add interesting content to the actual game itself, i.e. the wars being more interesting because the actual toons that died would be dead forever.
However, I don't think even the most hardcore gamer would go for mmo permadeath. I know that if I made a toon and died and it was perma...I would cry, and then smash my desks into kindling, and then promptly uninstall the game. (having removed my computer before the smashing commenced...I mean I'm crazy but I'm not stupid, lol)
Now if it was incorporated into the game that if you decided to be a ganker for loot AND YOU LOST and then as a penalty you lost 25% of ALL your skills xp...I would definately give that a whirl AND STILL BE A THIEF. That would make the game even MORE interesting. IMHO as always.
And by thief I mean someone that tries to kill you for your stuff. Might as well give them a fighting chance as opposed to standing beside them and trying to pick their pockets at the bank.
Krystar Daymen (Old School UO player baby)
That's because in this game there ARE NO LEVELS. It is a SKILL based game...which means that you can see all the high end content you want at any time AND participate in it because it's also sandbox. Example of a non level fight in pve is: On the first day of playing a brand new toon in UO...The first thing I did, after the buying of a spell book and spells to fill it which took like ten minutes wthin creation of toon, was to go fight one of the most hard, deadly creatures in the game SOLO, and I won...not because of some damn number by my name BUT BECAUSE I USED MY BRAIN TO OUTWIT THE LITTLE B*ST*RD.
Give yourselves some credit people...most of you have a brain and are intelligent, well you ALL have a brain lol, so dare to USE it!! Don't be a slave to POINT AND CLICK.
DISCLAIMER: It should be noted that the author of this post has spent time in a mental institution and is nuttier than a fruitcake most days.
Just because it is "skill-based", or in this case load a spell aim and click click click click, doesn't mean that you will be able to take out anything from the onset. They have already showed us that you have to buy spells and skills and then those skills are upgradeable after you "practice" with them and you can unlock more spells and skills the further you progress; sounds an awful lot like experience to me...which would *gasp* mean you have levels hidden in there.
Anyway, you'll still point and click in this game, you'll still have to work up to the tougher mobs and you'll still be leveling your character even though it doesn't show you a line of progression. Don't make it into something that it isn't.
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Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
Well, I see one small problem: No one would dare to walk without a really large group anywhere. Say that you and 2 friends are out, suddenly 8 guys jump you. What is the risk they take? close to none while you will die. Griefers would have a field day even though they would hunt in big packs.
You could use AD&Ds old rez system, that you loose 1 constition every time you get ressurected insted
, a normal player had 9-12 in con and you started losing perm hps soon, when you had 0 you died for good.
In that case a lagg won't kill your 3 years old char the first time but it would still stop gankers, at least after a little while. With perm death I also see gangs of alts jumping people, their main give them good gear and they would have almost nothing to loose.
Regular perm death could work in a PvE game but in a PvP game that would be an almost empty server soon. And you would have to do something against lagg even then, like measuring the FPS and latency of all players and if you got some kind of spike you would rez.
That's because in this game there ARE NO LEVELS. It is a SKILL based game...which means that you can see all the high end content you want at any time AND participate in it because it's also sandbox. Example of a non level fight in pve is: On the first day of playing a brand new toon in UO...The first thing I did, after the buying of a spell book and spells to fill it which took like ten minutes wthin creation of toon, was to go fight one of the most hard, deadly creatures in the game SOLO, and I won...not because of some damn number by my name BUT BECAUSE I USED MY BRAIN TO OUTWIT THE LITTLE B*ST*RD.
Give yourselves some credit people...most of you have a brain and are intelligent, well you ALL have a brain lol, so dare to USE it!! Don't be a slave to POINT AND CLICK.
DISCLAIMER: It should be noted that the author of this post has spent time in a mental institution and is nuttier than a fruitcake most days.
Just because it is "skill-based", or in this case load a spell aim and click click click click, doesn't mean that you will be able to take out anything from the onset. They have already showed us that you have to buy spells and skills and then those skills are upgradeable after you "practice" with them and you can unlock more spells and skills the further you progress; sounds an awful lot like experience to me...which would *gasp* mean you have levels hidden in there.
Anyway, you'll still point and click in this game, you'll still have to work up to the tougher mobs and you'll still be leveling your character even though it doesn't show you a line of progression. Don't make it into something that it isn't.
Thanks for correcting me. Obviously it's going to be a point and click game since it uses a mouse.
What I should have said, and I'm correcting myself here, is DON'T BE A SLAVE TO AUTO TARGET.
And yes it will still be leveling but not leveling in the manner that has become traditional is what I mean. In other words you are not BOXED into a class and forced into a predetermined skill set.
However, provided there are DOT spells and DOT damage as well as good CC skills, it is not unreasonable to think that a smart player could take out a high level mob or player with a little taxing of the old grey matter.
Krystar Daymen (Old School UO player baby)
Permadeath = fail
You get lag and dc then someone kills you ingame, bad enough losing your gear or XP but losing your entire char? Aventuring would be bogged down with complaints from players asking for thier chars back!
What this game needs right now are some good press releases and some impartial reviews from decent game mags/sites with some video of the reviewer playing ingame.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
No, it is not hidden levels if you don't get more HPs. You should still get better in a leveless game.
Take pen and paper games, they are a good example of this.
Games with levelsystems: D&D(D20), RIFTS.
Games without: Shadowrun, Warhammer FRPG, Runequest, Vampire.
In the first one you collect XP and when you reach a certain numbers you automaticly get's better at everything.
In the others when you do stuff you either collects XP for each skill or you collect XPs which you use to buy better skills. In both cases you still can't take any more damage (well, you can in Warhammer but not that much if you buy extra wounds, you don't have to but you can).
In all these games you can die with a years old char if something wussy attacked you, it is quite unlikely unless you were sleeping, had extremly bad luck or were very stupid but it can happen. That is impossible in games with levels, a lvl 65 Wow char can't get killed by a level 1, it just won't happen.
A level system is a simple system without any logic to it, you should still get better as you play any game because life works that way. Lawrence of Arabia got loads of XP in WW1 and still got killed in a stupid motorcykle accident after he got home, if the world would have been level based he wouldn't even got a scratch.
But yes, people in DF will still have to start with easy mobs, it is kinda like a boxer, you don't get your first match ever against Hollyfield, or if you do you will loose badly. This won't make DF any better or worse.
I don't know if permadeath is the answer, but DF does need a more permanent loss upon death. Its kind of funny that the first page was a resounding NO. I completely expected DF followers to jump on this idea and come up with some good ones of their own. I m almost in shock that they disagree
It almost makes all those arguments that DF will not be a gankfest hollow.
easy , prey should run not making new accounts
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Would be great for a different game but not DFO. The problem is a MMO like DFO is built on the principle you are going to die, and die often. For a Perma Death MMO you would actually have to make it extremely hard to die. Fights would have to be long. Otherwise people would be making new chars every few minutes. Which would turn everyone off of the game.